Dialogue(s): parmenides
Chapters: hyp4
Sections: 157b-159b
Attendees: Pierre, Barbara, David, Regina, Eldar

Synopsis:

Our Parmenides study group continues on once again into the fourth hypothesis. Pierre extends his diagram from yesterday, but only at the bottom.  We read through the entirety of the hypothesis, focusing on several sections. The most work is put into P15 (top of 158b) by virtue of its importance but also ambiguity and multiple interpretations in the original Greek.

Notes:

0:00:30

Barbara - some remaining translation issues in hyp3
- "in no time" really "in no one time"

Eldar clarifies with Pierre a quote from Pierre from yesterday: "Logos is the expression of the intelligibility of the Self."

0:09:50 beginning of study on hyp4, at 157b / P1

Up to P8. PG: What does this mean? Is this a continuation of hyp3?

If the others do not possess the Self, then the fourth picks up on that theme and continues it.

20:55 stop reading at P12 and discuss

Keep in mind: What kind of a "one" is it?

P9: What kind of "whole" is it?

A diminished role of the idea of "part"

0:34:00 putting a crown on it. (the part has a diminished capacity as a part. but the whole still has a perfection/completion.)

0:35:40 back to reading from P11-P12

0:43:25 P13,P14

0:45:00 impossible. the only way a part can be one is deriving it from the Self

P:46:40 P15 Participating of the Self by being different

(Pierre looks at the Greek)

0:50:45 P15 "..Participating of Self, (they, the Beings) different."

(I think: "Is it not the case then, that The Beings which Participate of the One, Participate differently of Self.")

0:58:00 David translates as a participial phrase: "Those participating of Self participate, being different from the One."

Regina: "Must not those which participate of the One participate of Self as being different from the One?"

Pierre: "Is it not the case then, that Beings of the One participate and participate of the Self.."

1:05:15 Thomas Taylor: "Must not therefore those that participate of the One participate of Self as being different from the One?"

Loeb: “And will not the things which participate in the one be other than the one while participating in it?”

Greek (Loeb): οὐκοῦν ἕτερα ὄντα τοῦ ἑνὸς μεθέξει τὰ μετέχοντα αὐτοῦ;

(TT's translation would make participation of the Self as primary, not the One. That is, we're really talking about participating in the Self AS DIFF.)

This is a discourse dealing with the primary role of different.

1:08:35 P16,P17

1:14:50 P18,P19

PG: Again, we're not participating in the One, we're talking about participating in Self.

1:18:00
PG: Under the principle that each hypothesis is going to depreciate the primary notions, the biggest depreciation here is going to be the Self.

1:23:45 P20,P21

1:26:45 P22

PG: Strictly speaking we should be stressing P22 and "becomes One"..whenever each part comes into a state of being one

1:32:20 P23 now they have a commonness with each other. sharing this with each other.

1:36:00
now the unlimited (state of being) comes to be out of this commonness.

P24

1:39:20 P25 like and unlike

Reading to end P26-32

Eldar's question on P31 about how they can be UNlike


Working from Plato's Parmenides: The Juan and Maria Balboa Translation

More info: http://noeticsociety.org/psg

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