tv Up Front 2018 Ep 2 Al Jazeera February 3, 2018 5:32pm-6:00pm +03
the atmosphere here is one that the nationalists wanted to show president graham that corsica is a country a nation and a people and they must be listened to now that the ultra nationalists have a coalition that is in absolute has nothing majority in the course of the assembly they say it's time parents must start listening on the one of their first demands is that the court's going language should have an official status here on the island at least two people have been killed nineteen others injured in attacks on turkish towns near the border with syria turkey says the rockets were fired from a kurdish enclave inside syria it's been more than two weeks of intense fighting in the area the judge in brazil has ordered the return of former president lula da silva us passport it was taken last week after a court upheld his conviction for corruption that increased his jail term to twelve years he's likely to be barred from running in october this election but his party insists that he will be its candidates but he remains popular in brazil has come
out of the news grid on al-jazeera a little over twenty five but it's right off the up front next. but the message is simplistic and misinformation is rife listening provides a critical counterpoint challenging mainstream media narrative at this time on al-jazeera it's one of the most violent places on earth but just how democratic is the democratic republic of congo given its president was supposed to have left office back in twenty sixteen the country's controversial minister of communications and will also debate the future of germany's angela merkel.
also on the show she's been called the new leader of the free world but german chancellor angela merkel has grown increasingly unpopular at home struggle to form a governing coalition and has been undermined by the rise of the far right so how much is merkel herself to blame for the problems germany now face that's our debate but first protesters shot dead opposition figures and the internet shut down all some say because the president of the democratic republic of congo joseph kabila refuses to leave office the country's constitution says elections should have been held in twenty sixteen but the authorities keep postponing them so what next for a nation that's still recovering from what's been called africa's great war this week's headliner minister of communications. thanks for joining me up front your boss has been president of the democratic republic of congo for seventeen years and you've had presidential elections in your
country delayed for nearly two years now is he ever going to give up power and let someone else be elected president. well my president used to see often you just read the constitution of the democratic republic of the congo and you find the answer. there is a provision within the constitution that can tell you if he can step down or not and it is written in the constitution very clearly and nothing will change in that constitution under the constitution there are supposed to be elections in twenty sixteen your government said there would be elections in twenty sixty then they were delayed we were told they would be in twenty seventeen they didn't happen twenty seventeen now we're told they should happen in december twenty third i think december twenty third twenty eight hundred the end of this year how do we know they're ever going to happen everybody nor the. security challenge i think you have about these terrorist offensive we had to face in north kivu province where
even the soldiers from un died you have already had already. understood about what happened in. the can we not sample terrorist or fence eve or these didn't make it easy it is this and that's the reason exercise is you have another election of course you can get in previous interview and your president said the reason for the elections was the electoral commission the electoral register getting technical problems now you're switching and saying it's security we're looking for any exists here it is a big issue you can't organize elections where they are killing those people or of the electoral commission it is impossible we had the problem of another race or are never going to have elections because they'll never be perfect security in a democratic governor and i tell you how to reduce electors and when they start to register electors we found
a lot of provinces under attack terrorist attack and a lot of officials from electoral commission were killed and they refused to go ahead with these electoral census that jeopardized the existence all saying on so you're saying now that we haven't had elections you haven't had a lecture. in the democratic republic of congo for nearly two years now because of security issues here's what i don't get you say that you want safe elections free elections without violence your president said in the past we want perfect elections i believe is a phrase he's used and yes in twenty eleven when he was reelected for a second term president kabila those elections were not considered free and fair by international law he didn't care about free and fair elections in twenty eleven when he was being reelected this is comment of people from international monitors from the carter center are a group this is not a country that belongs to. a comment of i don't know who so it is very unfair it is the people of congo who decide ok and if we decide that the election where good are
going to one decided the other if i was a member of parliament if you're good so let people say what they want but the people of congo you say will decide what's free and fair the people of congo are protesting in the streets they have been for the last two years against their will is an election who protests the my idea there are. twelve million people in this town of kinshasa. there where no not even ten thousand people are protesting ten thousand people doesn't count as a problem. how the non elected people would try to keep sure it's not only elected example allowed to protest in a democracy is that your position is are definitely because the show is that the elected people to come and not give the policy of ignition so you're against peaceful protests but that's very honest of bloodstains the last policeman they killed the policemen might be and is in non-democratic to protest in the streets
they delayed elections again not to come with the guns and to kill the police but if your peace in this thread about the peaceful it was not peaceful so ten thousand guns you are not well informed ok so i'm asking for information in other articles where i was in the people of little fun to some bundy to were there ten thousand. people didn't. minister whether you had a thousand people with gay way up here the police was there i'm not disagreeing detained out of many peaceful protests was killed would tend not to know many many many who ok let me the number one first and so my guess is if you guess how it works i'll be the editor i'll tell you a figure in a moment people died you said ten or twenty five this two people died did this to this well work of individuals who would have twenty thousand people carrying guns that's all i'm asking no question no you accept there were nonviolent protesters here at least the way among the various protests there and then just people of course and the police that you're exaggerating their condolences to they killed the police as you killed a lot of protests in order to keep any protesters really does
a lie it's a lie nobody can say that from the us government says that you use lethal force against congolese civilians amnesty says used firearms against unarmed protesters human rights watch says you fired at this point blank range we're going to don't like how you can rob them which are misty but we have a problem with a lady walking with you on the right everybody you know i'm glad he had that she had a problem with i want you to ok so you're a little bit here oh well that is how problem of a minister to go to respond to that i talked about and i want to repeat not sequestered what i do admire is you do speak in a very blunt way you said you have no problem with amnesty international this is what he says the wanton disregard for protesters lives the unlawful use of force cannot be tolerated the use of firearms against unarmed protesters contravenes congress obligations on the international media are not well informed that dissolved oh my what are you sure there is no interest amnesty as well your should not to go and take a report from somebody who has a problem with somebody but i should say recall for the government that's killing
the people these are misty who say we should i will you do this rules we should i believe i shouldn't believe the french going to put a u.s. government down to ninety one human rights watch but i should believe the government would be carrying out because we are in the feed my idea ok so there you are in the sectors that ok so let me ask you this question a u.n. official u.n. human rights official on the ground was monitoring events with a. into the ground by security forces kicked and punched even though he was wearing a blue vest identified as you're going to terrorism our way out of that so perhaps you should get more information i'm not sure where you were telling me to get lots of. you're not aware of an attack on a unit where you see the new york times with no no you to see what all the information. generally has on his events but these we don't have that information the reality is that the congolese people a lot of congolese people support could be a lot of congolese people don't support their indeed indeed and the knowledge of their work some of the elections there was a poll done last year that showed ten percent of people support the president thirty eight percent say they have backed the exile up
a little later they're going to be wanted by ten percent of people are you joking when did you make these poll was done an opinion poll who won the recent government and why you have never seen because people are. making policy in new york or to brussels or this is a lawyer made up those out of the. law is the u.n. might realize that honesty and human rights watch a lot is we want a government are. the only ones that are the sort of sorts of what stood out to these are happy because we are giving them now but not cheap western countries are not happy so i'm not like i'm ok what about the respected head of the catholic church in your country who has compared life in congo to living in an open prison we said demonstrating for the catholic church let me have a problem with you it looks like we have a problem with some prove me that man who are acting as politician about the head of the catholic church no that's not bad is what he says how can you.
how can you kill men women children youths and old people young thing we all saw what do you are we now living in the prisons are you i'm sorry are we now living in an overlord of the demonstration cardinal or a muslim that says all we now living in an open prison it's a very. simple question it is the clergyman who is acting as a politician who said so but not the catholic church so he wants the song out by many other bishops. because you just dismiss the bishop as well he may dismiss he says he doesn't like your business relationship with china he's a politician do you fear your congolese opponents is that why you don't let them protest for free do you think that there is any country in the center of these part of the continent who people could be moved to previously the democratic republic of congo. where hundred countries were being shot dead and there are people who are six people were shot dead this in january twenty sixth is not
a hundred let's just do the math challenging numbers i love a few less in december twenty sixth in sixty two people killed no august twenty seventeen twenty seven people are larger than that's eighty nine lives on the seven in december result in may that's ninety six that's eighteen january that's one hundred result identity doesn't into debt just a few hours dismissing a fellow can tell you the cigar since again where is the names that i read the report by her minister human rights watch the reuters we people can be influenced and they're right but it won't it's impossible to have a conversation because when i get your bicycle if you're listening because right thing over this week's news you bring president becomes for a round of fake reports i'm sorry how many of you killed they have to be a confrontation between him and call them turned our soldiers on who is with you no no no no we are not going to give it up to you not to. the company which i mean killed the researcher nobody were killed during the demonstration how many were killed five five terrorists that we are given to december why it is sixteen how
many people have been killed in protests not even ten really not even so when we have. jobs when you have to keep people. out of the combat the problem is you keep saying the facts are fake information that your government is actually trying to control information you shut down the internet you prevent people from. sounds like you're very worried about their country where freedom of speaking of speech freedom of. expression more than the really liked this is just you know does not tell you just give me a cigarette making nonsensical stays with me it's your job if. you're the freest country. and i'm always going to you're not there to respect you know interview me i'm not going to you who it isn't i love a simple question on t.v. are you saying that your country is yours as to free speech in blank outlook or to use your for yes. why do you sanction you're the minister communications for a quote repressive media public because of china undermines the lecturer that
you're now as i was i know promising to the e.c. or bandages a lot better probably has your mind all very well ok so this it was of china i know very well and why did the u.s. government sanction officials in the sunshine in the back of the u.s. so your colleagues are your colleagues are nobody's telling us and the e.u. assigned to the members of your government but apparently the freest government in quote black africa no no no no no i mean this is why some of your statements and all of that nonsense challenges that beaches and you are challenging that ok because challenging the right now you're going to buy the e.u. we have a problem with a company called bad ok but the u.s. government says you're corrupt and prey on your citizens maybe they are influenced by bad you ok well i'll tell jim is that well you know how these days no no say could be shown to the trumpet minister i know you're the. one what i don't get the u.s. government the e.u. the belgian government the. right slogans of belgium i don't don't extend it to others and i'm talking i'm quoting the u.s. government ok i mean the u.s. i'm quoting the u.s. government the french government the e.u.
human rights watch amnesty international and why you the u.n. the cobbles in the catholic that you've dismissed not all i know you very much hard cheese and not ok one cardinal you know on the catholic church a very yes ok but do you dismissed all these people which is your right but what i don't get is why not one pretend that you're a democracy where no one thinks you just say you know what we don't can we think about. we don't care we got it by broadband see why doesn't the other raised three people where you say you are the freest years we are a democracy but we are free to interact with you who do you what do we want and what do we decided to interact with china we got problems we could belgium because the before market or nizar they wanted us to remain in partnership with them so my question is yes when all of this criticism from the international community is coming out you want to just say we don't care why pretend that you are a democracy where no one thinks you are we are a democracy because we are it is matter of fact he's not your mother or your president it is not a lot of the opinion of others this interview because
a matter of fact my idea is not a matter of somebody say you are a democrat so you are a democrat is a matter of facts are we acting as democrats if yes we have the market even if you don't think that we have the book or if we are us democrats we are out of the market indeed. thank you for joining me on out front thank you thank you. she's been called the defacto leader of the e.u. the new leader of the free world and even the most powerful woman on earth but in our own country german chancellor angela merkel is more unpopular than ever before she's been struggling to form a coalition government and last year lost a number of seats to the far right nationalist a.f.d. or alternative for germany party speaking at the recent world economic forum in davos the german leader claimed she was doing all she could to get the populist wave under control but is she or is merkel the cause of it and how do her current political struggles affect not just the future of germany but of europe joining me
to discuss this are yasha monk a lecture on government to harvard and host of the good fight podcast and from frankfurt goldman a journalist historian and author of the biography the german angler merkel and others thank you both for joining me in the arena ralph let me start with you in the past you've praised anglo merkel's leadership you even wrote in your twenty thirteen biography that she was quote in perfect sync with the national mood that isn't quite the case today though is it nearly half of germans according to the poll say they want merkel to resign in twenty seventeen she let her party to the worst result since nineteen forty nine era of dominance seems to be over isn't it. there are two reasons i would say first of all she's an office for twelve years and that's a lot of time even for germany and of course it's also a problem forming the government is very difficult now and that's not
a very comfortable position for and the other reason of course is refugees policy since two thousand or in two thousand and fifteen when. nearly one million a year for refugees came to germany. and of course that was a great force for the right wing nationalist of the party but while i think that it's not the fault of america because there were a few turn and how to react in the situation we had in that year. but of course it's a consequence of a policy yes it's to do with the fact that she's been in power for a long time that's one of the main reasons why she saw unpopular now it's not through faults of our own i mean is a little bit of both obviously once been in power for the ten years it's easy for people to sour on you but i think the best line and i know merkel always used to be
that she's minimally invasive she doesn't really get on your nerves and i think she still doesn't get on people's nerves in quite that way it's not they see you on the t.v. screens and i think as kind of standard see this face anymore i don't want to hear that voice anymore i think people are recognizing that she actually hasn't shown real strategic leadership and that's true across a whole range of issues the refugee crisis is one moment where she seemingly had some kind of leadership for she was actually buffeted by the bends to a remarkable degree of same is true on the euro crisis where she didn't clearly set out how germany should deal with greece and other countries she sort of kept muddling through the same is true of the rise of the liberal populist in poland and hungary where she hasn't shown real leadership but i think people are. recognizing now that the same is happening in coalition of the sea asians which have dragged on without a clear word of leadership among the merkel voters saying this is where we want to go and why that is not as strong a leader as has been claimed she lacks real strategic leadership and she's been
muddling through suggestion or her well yes but i think that for her what you call muddling through is part of political leadership pragmatism and to see what is realistic. if you take the eurozone crisis for example the countries of north and eastern europe were not so much of the people in these countries were not so much going to pay money or to guarantee credits to be more exact for other countries and southern europe. people in southern europe are not very much attached to the idea of financial stability and i think that for a really big political leadership an act of political leadership that. was able to find a compromise between these two positions let me ask you this she accepted one point
five million migrant asylum seekers refugees in twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen her critics say that open door policy backfired on her people on the left actually praise her and say that was a humanitarian gesture from a purely political pragmatic view point was that a mistake in your view but with alternatives as rough as meant well i think one of the things that was a mistake in in the migrant crisis which is quite typical of her shortcomings which is that she's not somebody who can actually set a vision and hold a speech in order to get people on board was a lack of communication so what she did was quite bizarre you would expect somebody who's actually committed to helping refugees to try and. keep the door open while reassuring people that there is a limit and virtue is taking steps to manage flows what you did in stead was the opposite which is to say that you actually did what she could to stop the migrant flows she struck very dubious deal of threats about one of turkey for example to
make sure that no more migrants could actually reach germany and overwise should tell the german public there is no end to immigration and to refugees we will not have an upper limit this is going to go on for however long it will and i think one of the reasons why germany turned against refugees so strongly is precisely that they had a sense of this is going to go on forever and so that it will change all. of a cleavage if she had been very clear about the fact that there's going to be an end of the i think that people would have been work that route. i think that the main reason why she acted. was simply europe she thought that germany not be the country which close was the borders if that doesn't matter about germany cannot do that in specially in the situation of the summer two thousand and fifteen after the deal with greece many people thought that money was too hard against greece and greeks and so
this was the main motive but i didn't want to speak about that because she thought that this argument europe was not popular enough and that was why she only said that when every single divine every single time she remain in iran and i want to say because i'm running after the opinion polls murmured after a moment and that's made her very successful it's allowed to get reelected number of times but it's also the reason why she hasn't actually solved any of the issues facing germany what's her legacy in what way has she actually changed the country you mention political legacy what is her legacy would you say that part of her legacy is the rise of far right nationalists the turn to for germany party which became the first far right nationalist party to enter the german parliament since the nazis merkel's vote share went down last year their vote went up and they won seats for the first time on this level do you hold her responsible for the rise of
such groups. i mean there's a case to be made but you can say that because she has vacated the political right in germany because she's moved her party to the center of it left a space for fifty when you look around europe there isn't a single country with a system of proportional representation where some form of populist party hasn't risen so i think germany was the right for that and that probably would have happened with a different chancellor as well ralph perhaps it's part of an american flag a c. but it's not in the center of this legacy or legacy is in my view that she managed to with her muddling through yes of course but to bring germany and europe quiet safe through the recent ten years of crisis first of all financial crisis where you are in crisis when you current crisis really where the edge of a third world war when she started to talk with obama putin and so on and
then of course references crisis. around europe angular merkel she's been in office for nearly thirteen years we don't know how long she'll be in office for will she be remembered as a great leader who united germany in europe behind or is an overrated leader whose tenure and in failure how will historians judge and. i think she'll. be seen at a great leader like homework or with very new things like reunification but she will be seen as a great leader such as hammersmith for example a transfer of crisis who managed to keep german the germany and europe safe in a time of crisis and i think when she is not there anymore her popularity will rise again almost every time briefly how will history judge angle of merkel i think as a very decent very competent leader. who didn't have a foresight and
a strategy to actually confront some of the big crises that haven't really come home to hit yet that right now aren't quite felt yet but i fear will be the course of the next decade judgment will have to leave it there we're out of time thank you both for joining me in the arena that's our show up front will be back next week. we have your zip data we know the products and from buying everything that you're doing that's really where the power of the old powerful internet is both a tool for democracy and the threat you believe that any of your companies have identified the full scope of russian active measures on your platform in the echo chamber world of fake news and cyberspace the rules of the game left changed there are no precedents people in power investigates this information and democracy at
this time on a. news as it breaks the us cut the funding has cemented the failing that the us is the policy of the problem and has picked the israeli side with details coverage the nigerian government insists negotiations are ongoing to secure the release of the girls and hundreds of others. from around the world three decades on chileans are still thinking about abuses but this time those committed by the church. need. to. get. the foreign minister.
facing realities growing up when did you realize that you were living in a special place a so-called secret city getting to the heart of the matter while it is activists to live in jail just because he expressed himself he had a story on the talk to al-jazeera at this time the strength of al jazeera is that because we have such an extensive network people were coming to us and actually shared information with the al-jazeera team and truck after. this is al-jazeera and live from studio fourteen here at al-jazeera headquarters in doha. welcome to the news to the.