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tv   The Stream 2018 Ep 25  Al Jazeera  February 13, 2018 5:32pm-6:01pm +03

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this comes as our top priority in order to provide shelter. to the returning displaced. what we would like to reemphasize in iraq that iraq has the potentials of development as it has been bestowed by god almighty with natural resources qualified educated people to relate to of thinkers and above all skilled labors by the support and assistance of our brothers and friends we can harness all these resources take advantage of the. iraq's prime minister hide out of body speaking there at that conference for the reconstruction of iraq in kuwait city the war is over he said now the battle for reconstruction begins we'll have much more analysis of what about he has to say in the newsgroup which is
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here on al jazeera right after today's edition of the stream next. this is really an attack on itself is a lot of misunderstanding of what free speech is supposed to be about the context it's hugely important setting the stage for a serious debate after front at this time on al-jazeera. i'm femi oke a south african president jacob zuma political future is uncertain after days of negotiations between him and the country's ruling african national congress this comes more than a year before his second term is due to expire and today we discuss what it was possible departure means for both the future of the a.n.c. and south africa's political landscape. and you're now in the stream live on al-jazeera and we do have a shortened you send us your questions and your comments i know you have
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a lot to say and we're trying to get it into the show. social. worker minister. cabinet. president zuma has been at the center of several scandal since he first took office back in two thousand and nine or he faces more than seven hundred charges linked to allegations of bribery and corruption denies any wrongdoing and maintained support among a segment of the n c but his scandals have been considered by others in the party to be a political liability ahead of next year's general election i made mounting pressure from within the party protests demanding zuma must go a.n.c. officials led by south african deputy president. on monday to discuss his fate correspondent for me to miller reports from johannesburg. well this meeting has
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been going on for a couple of hours now and the expectation is that the national executive committee will come out to push jacob zuma to resign and all indications so far is that he's resisted that unless even through talks with the president of the a.n.c. so remote poor over the last few days where they were trying to come to some sort of solution some sort of exit plan to get jacob zuma out it seems that those talks collapsed there were a number of demands from jacob zuma which the a.n.c. as a party even though the governing party can't necessarily meet around around prosecution related to these poor corruption charges and and even the state covering the cost of legal fees as well as security for his family now these reports around what the president may have wanted he's not stepped down yet and so the expectation is that this if he see meeting does come up with a decisive plan and
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a push for jacob zuma to step down from office so the media will continue to report out that story you can follow on twitter the media minute so what will be jacob zuma is like as the and what are the ramifications of a resignation we're here to help us on pack this story in johannesburg lobby is a talk show host aesop is a researcher at the society work and development institute at the university and community who is the chair of africans rising but the pan african movement of social justice activists and civil service organizations welcome everyone to the stream i want to get started with our community pretty active on this topic and for a while now this is diego who rapes and we've basically been kept in the dark it feels like a whole lot of tiptoeing around zuma when he should just be booted out no negotiation should be held with he she goes on to say we've been told to respect the process and wait at some point we have to bite the bullet and make
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a decision was hard work mandela bear has crumbled in just a few years it saddens us as a nation as we sit around and just wait really what do you make of her comments and just waiting can you relate to the. well it is absolutely apt to mean everything that is said index tweet is so appropriate and a true reflection of the situation the fact of the matter is that we are being thanked and i'm not making this up the d.v.d. president who is the president of the ins he sort of course i consider treaty a city where he thinks south africans for the patients and i thought nobody is patient this has been dragging on for the long time and secondly it is quite jarring to learn that the in c. thinks this is its own private internal matter it isn't it is about the country and they did not take us into de confidence so i think that is a failure in a vacuum of leadership so yes we are weak i want to just say this comes from
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south africa have a lesson. to us a lot. of us. see here that kimmy there in the background as well the if easy as i'm from the crowd if we if we took a temperature of the mood in south africa right now what would it be how to describe it. well in september opinion polls will be saying that seven out of ten so they're fictions as a whole. wanting present to want to step down immediately and within the a n c in september it was already six out of ten so right now in the national conference with the new president and some of them up close and so on. i think that right now the mood has shifted way. in antagonism to present him and right now i think
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is a via confirms his presidency where he's put himself before they see this but him so for the country it's been solved before the people and the way he's handled this without no dignity no sense of decorum and so on can we can you give a little sample of that because you're sitting there in south africa so you're saying almost play by play lack of dignity explain give us an example. so for example. present zuma always maintained with regard to the corruption charges against him in the early days he said i want my day in court i want my day in court and once. the legal system started bringing charges against him multiple cases yes everything possible everything possible to actually delay facing those charges and sadly it's been at the cost of south african taxpayers so right now i would say that he does have pockets of support but it's waning it's declining quite
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really but it's important in the way we discuss this is to actually just acknowledge that most of the africans recognize that the fish rots from its head as they say and we have to do the move prisms zuma none of us are naive enough to believe that just removing president obama is going to sort out the decay of corruption absolute disrespect of all people at multiple levels and we need not just jacob zuma to go we need the a.n.c. to go back to its own roots understand their servants of the people and stop acting like kings and queens as many of the leadership have been so coming in if you just enter and example has really beat you you've just said what are the other examples of zuma being selfish adding disregard for the people including southwest well the big scandal was ticks piers money state coffers about two hundred twenty five million south african rands which is about twenty two million u.s.
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dollars used for if it is private residence the public protector whose task we can investigating at such a miscarriage of justice and misuse of public funds found that zuma had broken the law but he held on to it dragged on for two years he wouldn't concede that he was wrong he wouldn't pay back the money until he was embarrassed in parliament and until the matter how went to the highest. in the land the constitutional court which found that zuma had violated and fails to defend the constitution so that's a perfect example of somebody who was in it for himself but i will back up what community saying that even in that incident would not turn its back on jacob zuma they supported him the humiliated. previous public protector she's left office now they literally disregarded the south african public and showed us the middle finger so that's why this is not just about you can look at the entire. that's why becky to get rid of him because they too have been complicit in this so really though it
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begs the question and to your point and also to me is why exactly now so i want to read two tweets one is someone referencing what you mentioned and something we've also covered here on the show to an aide says we paid two hundred forty six million and on his home he clearly lied about what his role in these huge amounts were this resulted in him having to pay back a small part of the money he was also found guilty of breaking the constitution we don't deserve a president like that but in a feeling here points out something that a lot of people are pointing out he says jacob zuma has survived impeachment moves in the past he's known of course some call him tough one don but i doubt if he's going to survive this mass action test name he has survived in the past why do you think now might be different why do you think people like me feel they are saying this might make all the difference. well he has survived many votes of no confidence and you know and the public trials in in the last few years the way he
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is really on the chopping block this time and it's different is that there was a really significant event that happened in december and that was the national elected country so that reagan national congress went to a conference and elected a new leadership and zuma and his preferred candidate and he's factions preferred candidate effectively lost the presidency at that conference and that put him in a very precarious position because the incoming president well now the president of the a.n.c. still raima was a has been going against zuma quite a lot in the last few months so this is this is what has shifted and ultimately the dissimilar country has shifted the logical sense in the in c. and in shifted the political mood in the kanchi around to man and his presidency is it too soon guess to talk about the legacy what it sing lead do for south africa kony it's not i didn't write about it i add and and rudy and as an event it's our
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economy i gather it's not it's a no it's not consume is the legacy was that at moments before you came in to qualify you as a complicit in corruption as. i mean these legacy is corruption corruption corruption there were certain good things that he did but that could have happened without him it wasn't particularly inspiring for example is held back. because of corruption he's held back progress so for example on energy use insisted and driving forward that corrupt nuclear deal with russia and notwithstanding every sector of society opposing it including the majority in the a.n.c. because he stands to benefit from the nuclear deal so i think the legacy will be that he destroyed a lot of what mandela built in terms of image in the states i mean myself as
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a young fifteen year old in the activists from back a. it is it is deeply distressing to see a movement that many of us gave our lives too many people gave everything to that is being destroyed so for me jacob zuma with and couple of years in college. is legacy was that corruption manipulation lies and abuse of the trust of the people of so that it doesn't let me play this for you comes from pretoria bureau chief an african news agency i was posted yesterday to the very end of the bike that's something i want to ask you about as i'm listening and we're planning to ask you but that please philosophic and do not good to work tomorrow tomorrow. and then proving. please don't put away when they go to police what they want to know is when they go to
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a doctor whether you're sick pretty god whether you want to go to temple or whether you wake. if you know put duct tape do not good to wake. because these crises that they're facing it affect us this man is like mugabe sort of. this man is like in the garbage. so i mean i think there are significant differences between distribution in zimbabwe and mugabe and what's happening in south africa and his zuma i think it's actually it's a stretch to make that comparison and i would have to see how one makes it but it's something that i've heard a lot and it's something that a lot of people see you know so much trying to be laden gavin so much i think it needs a bit of reflection i think we need to really think about what what the real comparison is the comparison though that you know clooney kind of brought up was that of
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mandela mandela's government versus. and there tonight is optimistic and is mad at colleagues of you know that the one nine hundred ninety s. in south africa but i've heard this comparison to you know many people have said that so remark was in the new agency will be going back to kind of mandela in c. and i think that's also something that we need to trace and if we need to critique the idea of what we. see in government got us and you know what what we need now given that the context is different so i think we need to also criticize those kind of easy comparisons mandela. i see the significant point where we can we can talk about how as you know tenure as state president was positive for the kanji but i think we also need to be critical of that and that comparison similarly to the comparison of look at ins and could we i want to bring that up because it's mentioning something that you referenced earlier siberry similar baton on twitter
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says when i joined the a.n.c. in one nine hundred eighty nine there was a movement that wanted to give a better life for all the people who live in south africa the party now is beyond redemption and to just accept the political scene the a.n.c. has become synonymous with corruption on the other side of that coin though we got this comment very few and far between are comments like this on our twitter feed but she writes said my president has done lots of things look at the schools and universities who me are there any redeemable qualities from the legacy when you look back at the legacy of zuma that you combine. i think that they were. the most important eventually that he made us he did the right thing and it's a be aids and to expand. programs but i think the credit for that he spilled the treatment action campaign and civil society rather than to monday and i saw it too so my him self but i think that what his name says is really important
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because we must be very clear that the rocks because what i was able to get away with what he has done over the last ten years it couldn't be that it just suddenly happened he came to power the rock started a long time ago and i don't want to i just want to be clear i don't want to remand to size the the mandela years which is only five years in power i was really talking about mandela as the leader of the a.n.c. as a liberation movement more so but it's you know much as many of us at criticisms of the you know range of different things on men before money economic transformation and so on and a suffered and them and then i think when you look at where the was taken us to date that period and i'm in the low would be still a golden period but people must be clear that moving zuma is the first then it's a question of cleaning up the national executive committee that also has their own
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bunch of cut up people in it and then it's a question of humbling in see how i'm doing itself and going back and listening to people but just to be clear on that tweet about the a.n.c. outlived its value i think there are many people that believe that right now the test is going to be with. he does well in twenty nine hundred next and sees where they infect the in c. shows consistent. passionate urgent attention to your advocating corruption in our state owned enterprises you know what in institutions across the board and if the a.n.c. does things like try and show to people in the zuma camp we've been implicated by corruption and treat them with one set of rules and treat the rest of the celebs are going people differently then in cities. is dead politically speaking moving call it yes it might still be the major party in the next election
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but if the a.n.c. couldn't gain citizenship doesn't decisively address corruption and shows that zuma ends up in prison and let all the a.n.c. leadership needs to do is allow our justice system which has been working i think the one thing we all pray and say thank god for the cops in the country and that paid tribute to the judiciary and civil society for that all the plates of i want to share with you had a line that really came out with we were just chatting just before the show i said what was your headline for west africa is right now with us you'll headline its readers headline read it headline read it i want you to write the headline where we are right now. ok so i really do think that jacob zuma is the cat with ten lives because if he was just a cat with nine lives he to fix those that them all out by now how does somebody who is so scandal prove who's facing multiple charges of fraud record and
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corruption which it never dissipated throughout his presidency has made one constitutional blend after another what do i mean by that famous i mean that every time as zuma in the presidency and the government have been taken to court most times they lose those cases in court including when he was trying to challenge at a public protector's report that he should pay back the money that he that that was used to refurbish these homes so i really do think that jacob zuma at still has some cards to play and the reason the assumption goops goes back to what. you were saying that some of his ministers have been complicit in the corruption some of them into some of the members of the sea i think it's so they can just turn around and say dude your time is up they too have a case to answer and i must say that could that you plead and asked her what she makes of the members asking us all to not go to work to shut down the country i mean i'm exasperated by that nonsense because civil society for years has been
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saying jacob zuma is flawed and the agency is also disrespecting the constitution by continuously protecting him and now if they live an hour they want us to shut the country down well we didn't try for a couple of months we didn't try for a couple of years is jacob zuma took us from one scandal to i'm not that it was the a.n.c. that was the holding his hand protecting him so now they come to the party it is too little too late i'm afraid so what is it when they could nuance perspective on this looking back some of the good and some of the bad of this person says looking at the legacy this is thomas he is a loss or pretoria and this is what he told the three. the way young people. can be changed. and they sure the. radical action was demonic and when it wasn't provided by the government young people took it into. being that has and. is a complete authority and. to be in here if
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you broke in conscious it's also a. fight no way. before it's been a time when young people have become. and it is. democracy kind of. so to seem him intend to discuss port authority but also see the light and all of that the good part about what he make of that. you know it's interesting that he talked about the feeling that whole movement and the kind of popular mobilizations that happened in the country and it simmers presidency in sydney what we've seen is a huge student movement yes but also mess of community protests you know across the country have been eating almost an illegally seventeen even daily basis various small mobilizations in communities around the country that relate to issues and local issues but it's all the links into bigger politics and what i what i will say
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about this is that while we've seen all of that and you've seen these message of kind of mobilizations across the country we also haven't seen a huge popular. mobilization popular protest against zuma they have been attempts but i'm also critical of these attempts so there was in the midst full movement that movement didn't manage to gain the kind of support that many thought it would there were a number of the number of criticisms around that even now in the wake of all of this and city that's happening and supposedly many people saying that most people in the country went cement to go we still haven't seen south africans really taking to the streets and their lives because we are in a country that's what. why so i mean that's that's the real question right now from me at least is that in a country where we see so much protest why haven't we had a big popular protest around so many leaving and that that really is a question that i think we have to collectively answer perhaps it's because south
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africans believe that they will be able to resolve this issue perhaps it's because that is a fundamental distrust with the system and if people believe that you can get rid of someone like sooner perhaps still it's because it isn't seventy and there is a i'm a bit more of the what do you think should i exaggerate. i disagree with his name does not fall marches that happened in april when unprecedented to never have south africans imposed democratic south africa marched against a sitting president and they cut across hours at what it what if one of the biggest two that you know buildings they were attempts prior to that main event and that's why is that it was a it was a success it cuts across racial lines and class lines i think what has happened is that the criticisms have been amplified but in my view doesn't in any way diminish the fact that this was an unprecedented move and what was the criticism well it was more that white people in south africa never much they only march when their comfort is disturbed and disrupted the criticism was that we have what we call
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service delivery protest and protest by poor people who just want basic services like we're tending to tricity and you don't see white people date perhaps that criticism was deserved there was a piece in a call while the white people in the middle class they never there when real issues i think to pass that is to make criticisms but that movement was unprecedented i would say that it was it was successful and also people protest different ways on social media columns of radio stations certainly the voices are being amplified in a way that they never were in the big end and in my d.n.a. years with the end tasneem as coming can you believe that we've been talking about this for hoth an hour and. i want to show you a headline and this is headlines from the guardian so this meeting has been going on all day i still know how to look at that headline i know that none if you will be surprised. this conversation continues online.
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still feel battered even those who managed to escape their country truly to escape . the carter center. for the benefit of people. so they see the importance of these.
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documentaries that open your eyes. at this time on al-jazeera. this is al-jazeera. on line from studio fourteen here at al-jazeera headquarters in doha on the mall santa maria welcome to the news grid in south africa president jacob zuma apparently wants to step down in three to six months but as an african national congress he says that is not enough.


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