tv Inside Story 2018 Ep 211 Al Jazeera July 31, 2018 10:33am-11:00am +03
chief cool. of again inequality in our society today or if you join the sunset the criminal justice system is dysfunctional right now this is a dialogue what does it feel like being able to go back for the first time everyone has a voice and allow refugees to keep it secret for a change join the colobus become the saints and announce his era. indians no more four million people have been left off the list of citizens in the northern state of a son or interim ots government argues they could not produce valid documents so have they become stateless and will this create further division this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program. four million people in northern india have
effectively lost their citizenship after their names were left out of a national database of registered citizens the list now includes only those who were able to prove they were in assam state before nine hundred seventy one for the people who've been left off of this list there's fear they might become stateless or even face deportation but indian leaders have assured them there won't be any immediate deportations and people can appeal to have their names registered this all goes back to bangladesh is nine hundred seventy one war of independence that's when hundreds of thousands of people fled to india to escape the fighting many of them settled in the northeastern part of the country mainly in assam will bring in our guests in a moment but first this report from paul church in. forty five year old munawar of the groom is battling cancer and the national registry of citizens she has appeared at n.r.c. foreigners tribunals six times to prove she's an indian citizen. seven million of the. thirty two million people who live in
a some state had until sunday to do the same. i'm extremely upset my health is getting worse and if i don't get justice my children will be treated as citizens of india if my name doesn't appear in the n.r.c. list then their names will not appear either critics of the citizens' registry say a movement by the awesome means to protect their culture has turned into zino phobia prime minister narendra modi promised his hindu nationalist party would take action against undocumented muslims who fled to india during the bangladeshi liberation war against pakistan in one nine hundred seventy one. to foreigners tribunals has been done to fight many such people whose name will not be appearing on our seats this exercise has left so many genuine indian citizens in trouble. after being questioned by the n.r.c. tribunals nearly a thousand people were deemed to be foreigners and sent to detention camps
supporters of the registry say their campaign doesn't discriminate between bengalis muslims or hindus it is very simple those who have entered up to seventy one. summit got their name with me and be operated on i said but beyond having done to. me only a dairy and i didn't nic india's interior minister has ordered security to be tightened before the release of the updated threads tree on monday rush nothing says there's no reason for anyone to panic and he has ruled out further detentions the government of the tea growing an oil rich awesome state denies accusations it's targeting poor and an educated muslims it here they are more than fifty seven percent dims and they are mostly living below the poverty don these people are illiterate and no education system exists in their villages. despite the
government's reassurances many who think they won't be listed on the n.r.c. fear detention and expulsion but they may have nowhere to go the federal government says undocumented immigrants can apply for indian citizenship but hasn't released details. on al-jazeera. all right let's bring in our panel in mumbai runa uber writer and author of the good iraq files in new delhi prem shankar job former editor of the hindustan times and in goa some amman what dude a high court advocate and a lawyer who works free of charge on cases of undocumented immigrants and some welcome to you all i'm on i want to start with you has this latest move now effectively made millions of people stateless nor does has not made anyone statements you would have to understand that this is not the final n.r.c. this is on the adopt a nazi not the final n.r.c.
this is a bought up with continuous process towards the final and i see so to be no one has become stateless no one is going to be additions and and no one has become a flood in all these people who have been dropped we'd have to would have to apply to build a reason why they have been dropped and then they would have to participate in the games and objection process but no one has become so stateless to be prim you heard what a man just said do you agree or disagree with that assessment. yes he is correct because this is only a draft but the question that that bothers me is why should the first draft have had only nineteen million names meant thirty two point one million had applied for of four for being included in the n r c i think that the fourteen million how is it going to fit the second point that bothers me is. why is this process being done in
this way you got the census data you've got all the names from there that's people who are eighteen and the only question that you need to ask yourself is there are people who are outside that and ask the questions of those people. make it work this doesn't work and then the third thing is going back to one thousand nine hundred eighty one this is this is wrong intrinsically because you cannot blame the parents you know the give you can be made for the sins of the parents if a child has been born in india then how lovely got there he is it this is the law all over the word of it but that is the decision by birth this must be taken into account and you cannot go to the courts all the time for god's sake the courts have looked at it two million cases of it is behind them and they take in any case three to five years but it's a good case and anybody who has done this already know that he gets bigger in the process and put book under afforded so effectively all of the all of the power lies
in the hands of the bureaucrats and the police and the big beautiful apps in the police in india have invariably enforced and unfortunately been extremely extortionate so this is really good to become aware of money being made in colossal amounts from the poorest people in the country and from time to time whenever they feel like it you would go to get some more money around i saw you nodding along to what prime was saying so i want to ask what your responses to what he had to say but before that obviously this is a very complicated decades long issue could you help explain to our viewers what exactly the role of the n.r.c. is what this is all about. but you know the n.r.c. wanted to stunted it seems to be of any opportunity process of being a sap their name actually do not have any of you have to understand that this is a stage but in ninety two to even the biggest masochistic business get the name a cycle or on the issue of who was a migrant it was not a migrant the n.r.c.
today basically is also following up on what the government had promised election monday that it was so all the bombing the shit immigrants who stayed in because this is a big issue and as we just asked the insiders and outsiders the legitimist citizens of india and the bulk of the immigrant but mr modi the prime minister of india can't been in assam in two thousand and sixteen he said that bieber taught all about the immigrants out of the country but that is also one of the reasons why an r.c. has been you know has been given the mandate of the side because to do the citizen is and but this has to be seen in the larger context of who is a migrant the global context where we are talking about the migrant issues the president has been so obtuse that you know that's what he was on the list i know this as as a man said this is not the final list this year dropped but it didn't drop the so obviously we did yes there are people who will be given that the chance to appeal but what is to model the appeal is rejected it will be deported will they be you
know they will be detained the bunker she government has cuts as does not count them citizens of their country so where do these people go they're going to be sent this is really up to the siege up and up a majority of the population are being god is speaking muslims and something going to give. you in and want to run out charges country run and start interrupted just want to also add that in r.c. obviously is the national register of citizens in india but also to add to the point that you made about this rhetoric that had been heard from the prime minister two thousand six hundred also even in two thousand and fourteen we heard in the interim ot say that illegal immigrants must go back that they are robbing the use of india their livelihood is not correct. yes he has said that in five days which is why to be his judgment is very important because this judgment comes close on the heels of the two thousand nine hundred general elections then more people have to tell the people of this country that he had what the pope said it is this is not
just a job it's what the it's what will be in india think about these migrants and that also decide the future of these migrants have begun they go it's also political it's also a political statement at this summit is meeting with this a man you said a few minutes ago that those that aren't on this list that there will be a process by which they can appeal right but what i'd like to know is what is that appeals process going to look like because we've been told that appeals can be made between august thirtieth and september twenty eighth is the government going to add here to that timeline will the government be giving help to those who want to appeal the decision. wilkie the major general and now he is how will this four million people take part in the years our teams in opposition process because like i said we will pass up late from seventh of august to know exactly the reasons why they have been dropped so they can be prompted get our gust of wind it up september they would have to apply for the claims and objection process they would have to participate in the process now we have to understand that measured of the people
that are worn in the treat how will they get part in the process in the immediate germans because i have been working creating awareness among people since to the island fifteen when this process started saw that one of the major hurdle was accordance boardin in the chip people that how would the feel of the forms and because they go a lot about the due process so this is obviously immediate a major challenge and that time period i believe should be extended it is it is as per the rule the rule have to be amended or the on the supreme court have to extend this time because part of what million people one month we need to listings now because this is going you know that this is the due process so the due process should be made as illusory it should be convenient for the people and maybe allow us to go source idea should also take part in the process to help this poor an illiterate people and the n.r.c. should should should make the process more convenient for him i saw you reacting to
what a man was saying there did you have a point that you wanted to make. yes i do actually first of all. this lot but the you like it or not is retroactive and any law that is retroactive is bad in the law. everything is such that you know but what do you do deport them if they don't get the thing to do put them in prison do their you force them across the border by the addition of these are secondary rays only if the law itself is bad i don't and then that the a peed process has been given to individuals actually it should be someone should be appealing to the supreme court not all that you please lay down the directive that retroactive to your present you know. provisions are
completely wrong and that they must not be there and they will not be respected by the court read from now we need to directive from the supreme court just now and that's what civil rights organizations book fair go for i want to add one more thing i fully sympathize with the problem of of us as ham if it had a very powerful it has a very powerful culture and a long history and it has been completely somebody in the in the past fifty years because the tragedy of partition but that does not mean that you that one drunk should be complicated pounded by a second wrong what of those poor people done that they should be suffering what what should someone who is eighteen or nineteen today why should he suffer because his father ran a leave from massacre. he has a grew up run away i'm sorry i think that the basic thing is behind this man just finished go ahead i think the basic purpose behind this whole business is in effect to continue the polarization of india in the vain hope i hope feed or that it will
not lead to it in the hope of a victory that fought for the for the forces of the due to a hindu fascism if you have to project it's not into his i'm a fraud i'm hindu this is not in this i did this got it is ok ronnie you just heard him talking about polarization division in india you recently wrote a piece in the guardian entitled mobs are killing muslims in india why is no one stopping them why is religious based hate crime on the rise in india right now. well because if you see prime ministers bannister who are these absent of power in two thousand and nineteen has been in the business of really just full resolution one of the biggest riots in india happened on the eve of the two thousand and fourteen elections to moody's also the former chief minister of good shot and under his leadership the biggest anti mr rights to place his key under the if you see the language spoken by these leaders i mean is a union what is key union this to us on our door so we're used of lynching muslims
on the street it's another leader has said that muslims start stop getting beat they will not be lynched this seems to be a state mandate what's going to stand today is a part of the government getting the muslims as the other the other this can't be this government where they are polarizing india hindus and muslims the message is that goes out of today's n.r.c. the board is that be are going to send these immigrants who also happen to be muslims we have to read that bit on because they do not belong to india that's the bottom line that's the larger messaging that is happening with today's support and this is keeping in mind the two thousand and eleven general read in the government is making migrants muslim migrants and muslim citizens of this country as part of the other trick that they do not belong to the ministry and this process happening in the form of lynching in the form of in the government you know be jimmy carter's opposing into muslim marriages. communal sentiments being very touch mail not being up you know statements being made against the to me and not to did this the
supported by the n.r.c. this is all out of a project that the indian government is leading of communal polarization which will be just it's mean it's mean from god leading up to two thousand and ten election because as we know developments you have to create the others you have to create a communal culture and before the elections all right let's take a closer look at the one nine hundred seventy one war that led to the creation of bangladesh the nearly nine month conflict was between what was then known as west and east pakistan. it began after the pakistani military government based in west pakistan launched an operation to fight the magali opposition in the east hundreds of thousands of people in the region fled to neighboring india which joined the war on the side of bengali nationalist forces after pakistan launched airstrikes on its northern region the war ended after west pakistan surrendered and bangladesh declared its independence all right i'm on let me ask you how real is the threat of
violence as a result of the new register. c r r the government government of india and the government are somehow showing that there wouldn't be any kind of violence and do now that they have been peaceful and i hope there is no violence but i would like to add one thing that there is a perception that we have to look at the migrant are still some but the same but the decree by the way to the migrant who talk about being got a muslim in or they have stuck it but not migrating but then you know and if you hundred something went even been god was not partition then india forget about india being partition even being god was not partition the migration started since then and it was like you know my getting from one district what are the districts so generally people being that there are little muslim migrants your immigrants i don't see i have been fighting for people who have been accused accused of being illegal immigrant and i have never come across any muslim who have crossed the border after nineteen forty seven so all of this is one thing we would have to keep
in mind that in our particular beguiling muslim they have my started migrating the one district from other districts if you hundred something and from one hundred ten to ninety and attempted the migration was more because of the british or because of the well planned study of the bishop british at the will more port so after nine hundred forty seven that has been almost no migration in fact that has been there but it wasn't aggressions because after nine hundred forty seven there had been atrocities on the muslims and people from this side had migrated to desolate people don't speak about these people generally the things because there has been a perceptions that there are muslims who are bangladeshis you are which is not the truth. runa it looked like he wanted to jump in make a point there what did you want to say yeah i could not agree more with what i'm going to say because we don't we haven't yet to fight with the migrant either in assam i mean you know if you do this of these a lot of these other migrants will send you one of these
a lot of migrants in the ninety's are these are these are not migrants of i mean recently these are people who live in how does of this country have been staying in this country so what is it in the beginning that's been this is not definitional wasn't it was in my quit this community seems to be a damn fool to basically tell the citizens of and the odd that that these are muslim citizens who do not belong here because there is no definition of what is a migrant and in this case and i rightly would that across from look at a time when statelessness is on the rise at a time when there are hinges are the largest group of stateless people in the world isn't this a homegrown crisis that india just doesn't need at the moment. it most certainly does not need it and i want to say one more thing look if you take nine hundred seventy one as a sort of a deadline for this then i must insist and i should go to court to insist that the
ten million in those who are thrown out about this are also sent out there must also be stateless exactly like the muslims or who they want to make statements this is this is complete this is the most. and unprincipled but it's politics that i have ever come across and i want a man you're fighting cases go straight to the supreme court with this point right now before that before the five hundred sister comes out don't wait for the damage to be done and then to repair the damage afterwards there's been no time and there's no money and the courts take ten and twelve years look at the cases from the mother about the rads this to this they've been going on even now and judgement i mean out of the just two thousand and fourteen twelve years later who's going to wait for twelve years please tell me this is the reality of india a judicial system has broken down so that to say that you can appeal is like saying you have no chance at all of what you have done to use done around a you heard this urgent call by pm just now when it comes to when it comes to appeal i want to ask you further about this appeal process how easy or difficult is
it going to be for those not on the list to actually appeal this decision. i think i think it's premier i t. pointed out that the legal process is our courts i'm not i'm not really adept at handling an issue of this of of you know of this nature but before that it is spoke about the india crisis and you know that's a question that india is grappling with i think it india's response to the india crisis in the last couple of months and you know a couple of lawyers have appealed to the supreme court and petition to the supreme court to take the migrants in india and the ones who are already doing the migrants are already in india very few minority of them are being demonized by the steed by the indian state by the beach if you are a good government but lost like the going does a money goes and if you should be torn out of india i think what if we need was done but the odds on the prices are still in an astonished you are the migrant is issues that all of their each one of them are muslims so this is a dam this is not about my god this is not the migrant issue at all it's
a hindu muslim story as far as your concern about abuse at this point of time we have four million people i do not think the government really has. abided this to be used by so many people i just want to die because the indian legal system is already inundated with lots of cases from across the country done by its cases that are you know that camille hasn't committed there are many hundreds of issues plaguing the indian judiciary so i think this is a lot piece of the concerns of the indian government i really see a computer or for the people assam what we were on there means in the list today. we're we're running out of time going to be the last word here if those who appeal the decision are still deny citizenship what happens to them is a detention is a deportation what happens next. the evening of the chin process and the final and i see will come and those people who drop from the i know that
actually they would have to look beautiful at the bottom mr boehner and go on lead the cloudless give me a dick lead the people at one another then the question would not the government on little bits of been got you to fight what you the future road map you know what what are good we could do with these people better than one million people that number is going to be reduced. to a small number but i think billy hawk the god in the forty million of one million people who have been dropped from a family in to name in their never not their mother or the name of their children's names are not there so i think the only hope that's all the claims of a different profit locked up named lot of people who need to be gotten included in the idea that all right we're going to have to leave it there we are out of time i want to thank all our guests ron i you've prim shank way jock and i'm on dude and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page at
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