tv Inside Story 2018 Ep 221 Al Jazeera August 10, 2018 2:33pm-3:01pm +03
to train and equip the opposition in syria so they could help push back these terms as people in power investigates how the us supplies soviet style weapons to its allies through private company spend the us government could wash their hands and say well we didn't know where it was coming from so when that was supplied by the us government may well end up being pointed at us soldiers yes absolutely we pick it up this week two months off to look perfect to america's gun secret pipeline to syria on al-jazeera. the united states reimpose as harsh sanctions on iran but both allies and adversaries refuse to follow the trump administration's lead is this a new blow to american leadership or the first sign a new pull over power structure is beginning to emerge this is inside story.
hello and welcome to the program i'm of the doubt that has made earlier this week washington reimpose that wide range of sanctions on iran the move followed the u.s. decision to withdraw from the iran nuclear agreement formally known as the j c p o the trump administration called on other powers to join it but also issued a threat telling governments to choose do business with america or iran not both the response has been a nearly universal no some of washington's closest allies have even promised legislation to protect their own companies against possible american reprisals. are you a little concerned that countries like china. but now
actually more. of. the world imports come on zero making progress we think the sanctions are biting already and we think they will continue to fight and cause significant negative economic consequences for iraq we really just encourage me united states to start talking to its partners in iran in order to be able to find a route forward for me. personally in the meeting i had with president trump i made it clear that the american intelligence has information that creates a different picture in terms of nuclear proliferation that was originally acquired and the agreement that was reached is no longer effective and if there had to be additional checks my opinion italy has to be willing to steer the relation with iran in this direction. this is not the first time to us has tried to force other countries to go along with this unilateral sanctions in one thousand nine hundred six the us passed the burton act
a law strengthening the embargo against cuba by penalizing foreign companies doing business there another law dating from nine hundred seventy seven forced them american companies not to follow the arab boycott of israel but extraterritorial sanctions have sometimes been successful in twenty fourteen before the nuclear deal came into place u.s. sanctions on iran hit france's largest bank been agreed to pay the u.s. justice department and eight point nine billion dollars fine. so let's bring in our panel in new jersey steven rogers member of the double j. trump for president advisory board in birmingham in the u.k. scott lucas professor of political science and international studies at the university of birmingham and in london and he say best city to breezy research fellow at the royal united services institute welcome to you all stephen raja's let
me start with you why does the u. s. always as you that everybody has to just follow its lead even if they don't agree well the u.s. doesn't automatically assume that the president and the president trumps administration he believes in the go she everything that he does not look with regard to iran the question each leader around the world has to answer is what has iran done to advance world peace the answer is nothing so the fact of the matter is is that the regime has done nothing but create misbehavior around the world has not lived up to its obligations regarding that horrible deal and the united states is no longer on an apology tour as president obama was there's a new sheriff in town his name is donald trump business is not going to be as usual the e.u.
and nato and other countries have always wanted the united states government to take the lead on a lot of worldwide issues president trump is doing that and that they've got to make decisions as to what side of the issue they're going to stand with and at the end of the day believe me they will stand with the united states that's cut lucas. we just heard there is that you know they us says that iran doesn't help for world peace well it's pulling out of the veto jeopardizing and this deal going to bring any kind of world peace so bring us close to it. no our first of all it i don't give two hoots for campaign talk i mean i care about political economic and military a fucks i am not a big fan of iranian foreign policy and what it's doing in the region for example its support of the assad regime in syria the killing of hundreds of thousands of people but when we're talking about the deal itself the deal is not quote the worst
deal in history the deal actually was containing iran's nuclear program ninety eight percent of uranium had been taken outside the country it had restricted development of centrifuges it had iran was adhering to the deal in other words if you really want to deal with middle eastern problems you needed to take the nuclear issue off the table the deal did that by ripping up the deal partly out of dollars from spite over barack obama and partly because of pursuit of regime change you put the nuclear back again you destabilize the region you don't make it any better so i may say that debris is it is there a feeling in europe really that the u.s. just pulled the rug from under the european countries feet. i think so i think the europeans have done during basta to come to terms with even though what were perceived as the concerns over to deal with their main things being their absence of the administration from the deal this so-called sunset clause and the
top of the spetum that are supposed to be conducted under the deal the europeans have been working with us to try to address some of these concerns and according to the same u.s. state department there was significant progress between generate and may when the decision was taken by the us to withdraw from the d o two i'm afraid is concerned despite that troubled nation decided to withdraw the us from a deal and put the europeans in a very difficult position the europeans continue to be committed to this virus to deal and as we know a day continue to strengthen their support for it and to implement the just nation that it's going to make it possible even weeks limitation for iran to continue to abide by is an obligation but of course it's going to be very tricky for the europeans and russia and china to. enable that deal to survive without that you are
speaking of party of it ok steve i just need to understand this j c b o a is that a multi lateral deal with several countries involved now the u.s. is going alone on this so far you seem quite confident in your first answer that everyone else will follow suit but why not also listen to position of the europeans their concerns and also why not give them some leeway when it comes to their own relationship or their part of that deal. the president is listening to the other world leaders i remember when he was involved with discussions with nato and there was a narrative around the world that he's breaking nato that he's not listening to nato leaders and at the end that if they nato rally behind the president and they
began to pay their way with regard to military you know the military might in the region etc look it's easy to blame the united states for everything but the reality is the iranian government is not taking care of its people the united states government is not the threat that iran needs to worry about its own people just look at what we're seeing they're out on the streets in iran they're tired of their government they're tired of corruption they're tired of iran sending more money to create mr for around the world to their own than their own people the president of the united states has made it clear that even he loves the iranian people we in america want good relations with the people but it's the government that needs to be held accountable it's the government in iran that needs to be held responsible for its own actions when i say in reality they have been eleven and
consecutive reports by the nuclear agency and all of them said that iran was complying so if you are now any other country in the world and if you are north korea for example and you're looking at what is happening why would you even negotiate with the you asked if he know a change of commander in chief will also mean that change of agreement. yeah i mean absolutely that in terms of how trusts war at the united states looks today international community if this is something that of course has been raised by a number of countries including of course a day rainy and but also going back to steve's point i think about the economic pressure and their role that sanctions are playing and also the reaction ofsted different parties and companies so to do sanctions i just wanted to remind him also of the fact that already in two thousand and ten two thousand and twelve there was a distressed set of sanctions which were imposed against iran to was a u.n.
security council resolution there were you know this action in polls by the united states by the european union and by and number of additional countries australia canada you name it and even done not only that you brain and regime did not collapse economically but also the whole negotiation point that he's making did not really change the change came once rouhani came to power where iran dropped it is iran return policy and a number of issues came to lyme so i dare we come to the reality station that pressure of economic pressure did not work in the past and we are far away from that type and that one of economic pressure to was exerted in the past now because of lack of global support to the united states or it there will be a continued lack of strategic policy from the united states to worsen iran moving
forward ok scott lucas now europe is not happy about this it made it clear. yet steve has a point that several companies have already decided to comply with these sanctions so does he also have a point that in the end europe will have to follow suit or does it have any exit of all of that order would it have to develop its own policy what could it do really. the e.u. can protect smaller companies maybe medium sized companies but it can't necessarily cover billions of dollars in protracted legal action so that's why you've seen companies like total and france like p.s.a. the french car manufacturer like siemens and they were in germany saying we have to suspend business for now but beyond that then you've got this fantasy world that stephen that donald trump or him look donald trump is not beloved by nato members that was a fantasy that you just heard there the idea has been not only on this issue but on
others that the u.s. can bully others and many macro appealed to trump do not pull out of this deal to resume may appeal to trump do not pull out of this deal and the americans threw that back in their faces so in the longer term the question is where will europe stand economically and politically not know why on the iran issue but on other issues when you can no longer trust the administration in washington and. steve this sort of rift within a you isn't that something that concerns the washington concerns a trump administration it has been since at least world war two the closest ally things are changing now in the world isn't that a concern at all president trump is known as a great negotiator look there were three presidents of the baltic states here in the united states a couple months ago and the common theme that they articulated at their press
conference was that we trust donald trump we trust his judgment there is no fantasy world here it is not a fantasy when the president of united states somehow through good negotiations got nato countries to pay their fair share with regard to economic though it tarry a that is exactly what happened that is exactly what happened and now it's very true you have talked earlier how it is campaign talk this is not campaign talk this is reality on the ground and you're doing with the u.s. media does you're creating a false narrative face on nonsense the fact of the matter is donald donald trump said in the pit he would protect the american people first and he's doing it. scoff that's reality it don't seem to agree with any of that well look i mean it for what it matters on the nato issue the nato members did not agree about out of donald
trump they agreed to continue with the path of increased expenditure that they've been on since two thousand and fourteen so that's washington spent on the broader point in the point when you're talking about iran is that you have this sort of not only the idea that if donald trump shouts everyone will follow and that makes him a great negotiator when in fact there's a lot of distrust as donald trump as a negotiator including amongst the leaders of the baltic states by the way but then it's also the idea that in iran the. people are just waiting for liberation they're waiting for regime change and if you put this together what it's saying is is that the iranian people who are caught between hardliners in their system and the americans if the americans put an economic gun to their herds and say rise up that's when the iranians will hit the streets actually some opponents to do regime in iran say that usually when sanctions happen or hearts situations like that it actually emboldens the regime moving on any say i just also want if you're iran.
post the deed in two thousand and fifteen iran has has looked. to the europe mainly for its contracts and its business dealings now it's looking at russia for example as a plan b. . russia and china are both against. the unilateral move of the us. should iran when we see iran moving a bit more eastwards or will they also be a bit more pragmatic and say well at the end of it that president trump is in power for two years maybe six at the most just ride the wave after all they used to that i think it's a going to be a mixture of these two tendencies so of course we know that the preference of the iranians ministration has been since the very beginning since two thousand and thirteen to improve relations with the european partners and he has stressed that
from a political perspective and economic perspective so i don't see the european preference dropping anytime soon of course because of the limitation of the european tools available to protect what the scope was mentioning are referring to is so small and medium enterprises it's going to be difficult for it iran just to rely on europe us so they are going to look at russia and china we have already seen a number of statements and discussion about no agreements on the energy sector infrastructure scepter between iran and russia and china and that has been also the tendency that we have seen during the toughest round of sanctions and the two thousand and ten two thousand and fourteen period in particular tool and basically enable iran and to continue to some extent its oil export and its investment in a gas fields but also into infrastructure by looking into the easter partner so i
think it's going to be a mixture of to two policy is that if rouhani could choose it would go with europe we know that by fact partly because he will need to prioritize also a bit situation of the iranian economy a whole city printing laying off its relationship with russia and china who have been supporting iran to out all the difficulties and all the sanction imposition that and the. these partners are going to be also looked at very closely by iran as well ok steve so now president trump said clearly you either do business with us or you do business was iran china said it will continue to do business with iran russia is pledging up to a possibly up to fifteen billion dollars investment in the oil and gas industry in iran the e.u.
might have legislation passed legislation that will protect its own companies. where does that really leave president trump on all of this is he's quite isolated from his. diplomatic partners on this specific issue. well a couple of points are the economy or russia is not good china is having some economic problems at the end of the day each of the countries in the e.u. are going to have to answer one question do you trust iran russia and china or do you trust the united states and at the end of the day we will find that they trust the united states but saying that all of what they're doing they're positioning themselves into bringing their ideas as we said earlier to negotiating table with president trump so all of this is a family squabble nato the e.u. the european countries who we've had relationships forever we're going to continue
to have great relations but the president is a tough negotiator and at the end of the day you need to deal with a country iran that exports terror that exports mr for a wide or you're going to work with the united states government who is trying to lead in the world not only united states but the world into some stability and peace so that's the answer that these individuals are going to have to or the question that they're going to have to answer and they'll answer it by coming eventually to the side of the united states on this issue scott you know because one could also argue that actually at all the u.s. administrations have had more or less the same kind of approach when it wants to impose something on the international community maybe the difference is not in substance about actually inform. the snuffing you coming out of washington at the
end of the day. i think that's an interesting point because i think we have seen previous administrations try to get very tough on iran we certainly have seen that for example with the george w. bush administration when they even considered regime change we saw it with the obama administration when in fact you know they took a fairly tough line to lead up to the two thousand and fifteen agreement but the huge difference here is is that. there was cooperation between those administrations and between partners such as the europeans and indeed between russia and china who were other parties to the agreement because you knew the rules you knew you could work with the state department you knew you could work with the national security council there was an element of trust here what has happened is that a combination of certain officials in washington such as the national security advisor john bolton who is committed to regime change and just the volatile nature of donald trump who has very little knowledge about the issue but just wanted to rip
this up because barack obama did it means that the rules are gone you can't trust dealing with troponin on and again steve wants to make this into a fantasy where trump is like the leader of this coalition or i'd love a rainbow unicorn for christmas but in a call to happen i think we will however see countries be cautious we will see for example china be cautious as to how much it defies the u.s. we will see countries like india and russia maneuver so i think in the short term the u.s. probably hold certain cards to put pressure on the iranians to cause cracks in the economy but it's beyond the short term that we get real uncertainty not only about the relationship with iran but indeed the u.s. position in the region and beyond. and steve you seem to have something to add yeah look under the obama administration and scott i'd love you to respond to this what about that jet with cold cash millions of dollars of cash in the secret of the night land in iran that's how the administration's dealt with that's how they dealt
with their hands behind in secret behind everybody's back we have a president of the united states who's very far and was very clear on his positions no one has to ever guess where he is so you're want to talk fantasy while there was a fantasy land when the obama administration was in thinking that and this is also this is a problem with our country before trump that we could just use our dollars to pay everybody off well donald trump is not going to do that there are going to be a planeload of cold cash for the record and i'm just going to we have we're running out of times i just want to give the final word to any say that we've heard to two gentlemen here. but again going back to iran and indeed to the rest of the world. do you think that with all what's going on we might see a new way coming out from to you on how to deal with for example washington primarily
washington and i would say are they going to be able to forge their own european way and be a bit more independent and briefly please because we're reaching the end of the show. that's a very good question i think it's very not warranty to all understand that the europeans were not thinking they were going to be able to reach a consensus a unanimous decision to implement the legislation that was just approved the day your bill came regulation which might be a political tool and not be as effective as we wish in terms of protecting the european companies and financially situation from the us a secretary sanctions but i think because of precisely the nature offered this situation and a fact that they don't trust of the united states and the mortgage on the iran issue even if they had been trying to work with them day saw that it is you know was take the unit out ready and without consideration of the consequences and most
importantly iran is applied in by its own a big asian and therefore the europeans don't really see any reason why the j.c.a. should be jeopardized so i think the situation is very complicated i'm sorry i'm just going to have to interrupt you because we have actually reached the end of the show so i'm going to thank our guests even roger scott lucas and he said best suited to brissie a fake you two for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website jazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter a handle is at a.j. inside story from the head of the heavy and the whole team here in doha by for now .
every weekly news cycle brings a series of breaking stories join the listening post as we turn the cameras on the media and focus on how they report on the stories that matter the most on al-jazeera. denied citizenship. health care and education. forced from their homes to live in camps. subject to devastating physical cruelty al-jazeera world investigates one of the most persecuted minorities in the world. silent abuse.
them or a calendar of the top stories on the al-jazeera at least fourteen policemen have been killed in a gun battle between afghan forces and taliban fighters in gaza he says he that's lasted for. heavily armed men stormed the says he attacking several government buildings including police had courses overnight shallop eles has more from kabul. so we believe that there are least fourteen people dead those people being police offices and more than sixty people wounded but it's such a fluid fluid situation it's so hard to get information out because cell for intel is a down cell phones are jammed the taliban is putting out.