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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  March 13, 2022 8:30pm-9:00pm AST

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kansas house china top the standings with 18 gold medals as the games came to engaging on sunday the most for hughes and the world numbered to squash player on the far i had spoken out against the war ukraine but also condemned the situation in palestine. egyptian made the comments after his victory in london. never been allowed to speak about the politics for the building now it's allowed, so we are allowed. i hope that the people also look at no patient ever do it in the world. i mean, the proceedings have been going through that for the past 7040 years and and what i did was i guess because it doesn't fit that out of the, of the, of the me job the way we could talk about it. but now that, that, so we can talk about the team, we can talk about that in. so please keep that in mind. thank you very much. i.
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this is al jazeera and these are our top stories. rationale strikes have, have a ukrainian military base close to the border with poland. russia says up to $184.00 and fighters were killed in the attack. ukraine says 34 people died. russia defense ministry spokesman says the military is advancing. well, there's really no, it's just or whatever. and he'll probably, the russian forces have moved by 14 kilometers and taken over a plug that some of the nationals were killed and others dispersed when ukrainian plane was taken down to the ruins of 3600 objects of military infrastructure were destroyed, including plenty reviews and tanks armored vehicles, the launch rocket systems, mortars and special military vehicles. and there's been intense fighting outsides. ukraine's capital keys were air raid sirens have been heard. many people have been fleeing the russian advance to ukrainian held towns. ukraine's president has visited wounded soldiers in hospital radi, being lensky met them and a hospital staff trading them in cave. ukraine says at least 2800 soldiers have
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been killed and about 3700 injured in the war. an independent filmmaker from the u . s has been killed in the ukrainian town of air pin has been named as brent renaud keys regional police. she says he was shot by russian forces. in other news, people in columbia casting their balance for the next congress. the vote could mock a significant political shift in historically conservative country. it's just 2 months before the presidential contest which could see a left his leader elected for the 1st time and talks between chance transitional government and aunt groups have ended for the day, but will resume in kata. on wednesday, the aim to resolve a long running conflict between rebel groups and the interim government, but some groups have refused to participate. those are the headlines on al jazeera . i'll be back with the al jazeera and use our in under 30 minutes. coming up next year is inside story to stay with us. the u. s. is always of interest to people
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all around the world. this has been going on for a number with you to push the chrysler to report story from an international perspective to try to explain your global audience and why it's important. how that could impact the life at the height of the storm. water was too high. it wouldn't be them above my head. this is an important part of the world. people pay attention to work with is very good at bringing the news to the world. from here. russia's war on ukraine isn't just being fought by the armies of the 2 countries. tens of thousands of foreigners are joining both sides. will they face consequences under international law? and how will they affect the conflict? this is inside story. ah.
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hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammer, jim, jim, russia and ukraine have mobilized hundreds of thousands of soldiers to fight the war, and both countries have made calls for foreigners to join their side. volunteers are already making their way to the front lines and al jazeera correspondent met these men from sweden and switzerland on the train from poland to ukraine. one said he faces 3 years in jail when he returns home, but insisted the sacrifice is worth it. ukraine says up 220000 volunteers from 52 countries have signed up to join an international legion. you've disposal seats. requirement. we a you the person, the quota in your grant and person goes to your grade. what as them science counter was armed forces or you great. so this is not mess sellers who are coming to add money, not, not a little. this is
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a good view. people would room walk gardening to assist you grave to fly for freedom. on the russian side, president vladimir putin has approved allowing foreign fighters. the defense minister says 16000 volunteers from the middle east are ready to join. the u. s. believes moscow is recruiting in syria where russia has been helping government forces since 2015. but the kremlin says those from the west who fight on ukraine's side will be considered mercenaries, with no protection under the geneva convention. crystal grocer as to recruiting mercenaries all over the world and sending them to ukraine. we can see that they are the west and sponsors of ukraine. they're not hiding it. they're doing an openly neglecting every norm of international law. therefore, if you see that there are people willing to go there and help the people often bass as volunteers, especially free of charge, well, we should grant their wish and help them reach the combat zone with digging. but
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a dome of who came up with the idea of throwing mercenaries against our people, it flags from syria and from the country that was destroyed in the same way as the invaders are destroying us now. all right, let's take a look at the role of foreign fighters in conflicts. the war and syria had one of the largest mobilization of foreigners. 1000 of them came from western europe to fight. after the rise of iceland, 2014, the un security council adopted resolutions to prevent the recruitment and travel of foreign fighters volunteers for ukraine have been signing up at a faster rate than even in 2014, in syria and iraq. some countries like belgium have tried to discourage their citizens from going while others, like latvia have approved a bill for people to take up arms for ukraine. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests in moscow. are will phelan, our defense and military analysts in providence, rhode island in the u. s. anthony to work and senior policy fellow at the european
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council on foreign relations. and in doha, omar assure founding chair of the door institutes critical security studies program, a warm welcome to you wall, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story omar, let me start with you today. all these foreign fighters that are joining the conflict in ukraine on both sides. what kind of an impact is that going to have? well, as historically, we know that it has a. ready an impact, some benefits and maybe a lot of costs on the benefits side. they depending on the type they have admitted that he impact from a word from the spanish civil war. when you have the international b gate was quantity means quality because of their numbers, the sheer numbers, even though for training and expertise. they managed to stop. the frank was army from taking madrid. and the grid didn't really fall except,
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except off to the collapse of the war after the collapse of the public and the end of the war. so there's some medicine benefits. they increase the manpower all whichever side they go to. they help with logistics and supplies. some may bring methods, expertise, depending if they were regular or regular. so they fought before then that saying insurgency, and they're already in rid of the warfare situation, or did they have for minute military training? meaning that they were part of an official armed institute. and also they help with the morale boost unit cohesion if especially the ideologues the heart course they, they help along with the unit cohesion, we know that and. busy sometimes also they give international
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missy goodwin further recruitment of other foreign volunteers. and the depends on, on the, the, the, the narrative, the, the, the that is upheld. they help with good with the international additional giving for the legitimacy of course that's on one side. what the cost, of course, we know that any mobilization and any demobilization has a lot of costs. also the always the opposing side uses or abuses. so let's say that our volunteers actually volunteers who are committed to the cause of defending crane that say, the other side, russia, in this case will be saying that these are not volunteers that are most entities. and if they are coming to to defend a democracy, they will be accused of being extremist and so on. and the other way around. of
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course, the other side has also, i'm not saying that there are no longer there are no people with like some let's say, extremist ideologies involved. but they are very, very different types of reasons people volunteer. they're also mercenaries, meaning that they're actually paid to fight. so those also exist, but somehow volunteer the most in that get brushed. sometimes you same brush. you let me, let me, let me, let me get back to you on that point about mercenaries in just a couple of minutes pop. let me go to you. how important is it for president at this particular time, whether symbolically or logistically, how important is it for him to have foreign fighters involved? well, 1st of all, we should understand that there are no foreign fighters. there are in fact on the front line. none of the russian side and a very, very small number on the ukrainian side. so we're talking about
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a future kind of situation more than that one. the so read you. there are president for foods in the front of the russian defense minister. this are you sure will public re told the president that there are lots of volunteers in syria with combat experience apparently. who can want did you want to join the fight in the don bus and the president. ok, that led out. understood, understand it didn't come there. yet, it's important for russia, of course, it's important symbolically that the russian cause is good cause and it's going to be joined by foreigners and the secondary. the russians actually have a very serious manpower issue, their military or friends in ukraine. the regular russian army is more or less all in not oh, of course it has, but it can't move wallets troops. i mean, not from the coil islands, not from going in grad and so on. their places where you have to keep garrisons anyways,
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and they don't have much or trained reserves. so her combat veterans from syria, ethel had actually fought with the russians and know the russians, are they being planted in barrel sore? and then the left po and good to together. so if they kind of join the fight, well back loop help, at least partially way in the problem with the reserves the break. now the russian military has anthony, i saw you nodding to some of what papa was saying that i'm gonna let you jump in. but i also wanted to ask you, what are some of the legal ramifications when it comes to foreign fighters volunteering for a conflict such as this one? there's a big difference between foreign fighters who are kind of incorporated into the armed forces of one of the parties to the conflict, whether it's ukraine or russia, that is perfectly established procedure with historical precedents em. i mention the spanish civil war obviously being
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a primary one and under the rules of war as perfectly accepted that you can bring people in. but the question is, are they part of a regular armed forces, or are they sort of freelancers who are kind of appearing on the battlefield, really of their own volition without formerly being incorporated into the armed forces. and that makes the certain difference because if they are part of the forces, then they enjoy what's not, who knows the privilege of the competence. in other words, if they're captured, they haven't committed any crime. they have to be treated as prisoners, the war. this is all us human that they fight in a lawful way, but their presence on the battlefield is accepted if they are just kind of free lancers or war tourists who are turning up with a gun, then they're in
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a different position because they're still counted as civilians but they're civilians who are fighting and so potentially they could be prosecuted under the law. busy of the opposing country for acts of violence. anthony, if i could just already, if i could just also ask you though, do you, do you believe there's going to be enough concern about what types of fighters are out there by governments that they would initiate, releasing guidelines for their citizens to follow in the event that they want to volunteer in ukraine. there it's been looking at how western governments have dealt with this issue has been interesting and they've been some quite and answers. so obviously the governments in europe, the united states, are very committed supplying assistance to ukraine,
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short stopping short of joining the conflict themselves. and some of them, the british foreign secretary in particular, less trust went so far as to suggest that it would be a good thing for british citizens, the gun fight. but the british defense secretary really kind of wrote back on that comment. and i think he has the better case because encouraging your citizens who may or may not have any in the military training to simply go abroad into obviously very dangerous design. and there are a lot of risk atlanta, basically the government can't protect them. the motivations why people may be that could be quite mix you know, there are concerns, obviously about some of them when they come back. so it's. busy it's complicated and that like a question, i think, you know, people who have extensive military experience so that,
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that forces perhaps they would be able to make that adjustment. there's also a question about how these people would fight when they're there. do they have the kind of discipline and training to fight in accordance with the laws of war? so there are a lot of concerns involved. omar, you were talking before about the different types of fighters that you were talking specifically about mercenaries, and i'm curious to get your opinion about if governments are concerned about what may happen to some of these fighters once they actually return to their home countries, there is usually that concern, but actually most of that is where it comes to that concern. it's. busy not the major concern because they're paid to fight if you don't pay them, they won't fight. so but others there may be some concerns with the you know, the volunteers, for example, the ones who seated inferior and got particular type of training that could be used in been tattered building of ideas being in. busy been areas and so on,
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so forth. and they because of the ideology because of the world view, the perception was that they may cause a threat when they do you mobilize and return back to the whole countries. especially if that i finished up with an organization such as isis and, and others, and the case over cream. clearly that's a bit different. so i mean, i guess the main concern to the security services would not western security searches would not come out and say this publicly because they, they need to be ideological or politically correct and so on. but there is a concern with you all the due on one end. and there is a concern with the type of training that these volunteers will get. and of course, there is a concern for why did they go to the war in which organization got affiliated with when they go to the conflict area. some of the, the do not really exist in ukraine and the conflict. and initially did not
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exist in that he'd be in conflict. remember there were several volunteers went also to fight against deputy dean, beckoned that even that illusion 2011. and there was that there was limited. there was, let's say this concern then when the case escalated interior in 20132014 visor license on so forth. so these are some differences. but also i want to say that the, the important involvement i may, i agree with everything that was study, but i made debit on the involvement of foreigners because from the very beginning from 2014, there were foreign fighters for very different reasons. on both sides, in the ukraine case and beyond the children's, mainly from trends to studia, some of the been regiment, serbian volunteers, but to the fighting on the side of russia and some remnants of some battalions
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that fought for the russians in chechnya or boston battalion is for one of them, though, they somehow let it created loosely within the, within the long company can becker's back in 2014. but they showed, i think, i mean they were very close to in 2014 they wedding crimea and would lead using pictures soon. so they were there, ethnically chechens or i'm sorry to interrupt you other side as well. the more i'm sorry, we are starting to run out of time. but let me, let me ask you this. when russian president, putin and when the russian defense minister make the announcement that there are foreign fighters who would volunteer to go to dom boss. is this a decision that was made in order to count her what ukraine is doing when it comes to setting up an international legion? or was this done?
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because there is worry that russians would be unhappy if more russian forces would be called up to go into ukraine. whoa, yes, i say the russian, the political military readership have a problem with the reserves. if this war begins to drag on and develop into a kind of war of attrition. although we serious problems with replacing manpower and general do attrition is not really what rushes that much ready for. and renouncing a mobilization and actually in the done boss in these are so self recording report works, which are now recognized by russia. there is a total mobilization of the male population. but in russia, there is not a boot in one public sitting there will be no reservists and no conscripts on the front line. only volunteers are because you knows that politically, that would be not very well and badly received by the russian public. as long as
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it's of over on tier force or sent me all volunteer fighting there, that's more politically acceptable. and so they all need, of course, volunteers and russians actually are not flocking to volunteer to go to work ditches. yeah, very much. i mean to the ukraine very much and that's a bit of a problem. on the other side, the ukrainians don't seem to have a man power issue and i didn't know will they form a foreign region or not? but they have a problem with specialists and commanders as they are expanding their mower tree very much right now. there's lots of volunteers that are lots of reserve as some of them with military expertise. i mean, with some experienced fighting in the don boss, but what different weapons now there's western weapons and specialists in western weapons. even western colonels major's generals that would be advisors or at your commanders of newly formed units as the ukranian war effort expands. so
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these are different things. russians don't want her to have her. no, sir, general citing. it's a commanding their troops in the don't bust, but they need manpower. they trainings need not manpower, but they need the expertise and commanders make it possible. you also mentioned earlier that from your perspective these fighters wouldn't be ready any time soon. when do you think that they might be ready? well, i mean it's, there's a logistical problem to bring them from syria, especially with the russian airplanes right now, being arrested, the, not the world to move, fly out of russia. again, you have to kind of low filter out who's in syria, who these people are for the russians are already there in series. they have, they are connections. there may be that will be a bit easier to bring those who want to really know how to fight. and not those who just simply went to find a way to get a russian or actually at
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a nest passport and then tried to infiltrate hero and not really interested in re weigh fighting ukrainian armed forces. so that'll take time to form kind of any kind of the large numbers on the i agree inside else the, the numbers are not very high right now, but the bank, there's a lot of people ready to volunteer, but again, they're going to have a problem to discriminate who's there as a tourist of who's really grady to fight and actually know how to do it in lieu and do the ukrainian effort does not detract from it. anthony, from your perspective, um, whenever it is that more foreign fighters or volunteers are actually on the ground in parts of ukraine, do you believe that these fighters could face severe consequences under international law? it depends what happens to them and it depends how they fight. i mean, clearly,
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if these foreign fighters are captured by russian forces, there are, i guess 2 questions, number one is the question of what should happen to them. and they could be prosecuted if they're not part of a former military brigade. so as i understand it, there is at least an outfit to incorporate them into a guide, in which case they should receive treatment, those prisoners. or then of course, there is sometimes the kind of special opprobrium that kind of attached to people who seem to be you know, from outside may be illegitimate. they don't belong there. they're particularly presented, you know, so i think they are potentially putting themselves at some risk, but it's not, they're not actually committing a crime by going. and if they fight in the hallway, then you know, there is no problem under the law. now of course, there is
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a question about whether the countries that they come from might want to prosecute, then when they come back and they're in the case of the u. k, for instance, there is a kind of law in the british statute book that says, fighting against the country that britain is not formally war with is a crime, but that it's kind of, you know, not observed. and that was never used to prosecute people in the spanish civil war, and then think it would be in this case. so really the people who are prosecuted to the people who fight grows and i patients that there countries the most terrorists . and i mean, as, as we know, there are some extremist elements on the ukrainian side bugs. i think the prevalent view would be that most people fighting and you trying now and not fighting for cause that. busy western governments with the most terrorist. and therefore,
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i think we would see a different approach anthony, for the fighters who are coming from nato countries. how much does that complicate the situation on the ground? and also let me ask you for countries who have fighters on the ground in ukraine, if those fighters were to get kidnapped or killed or injured, is there a fear in those countries that there would be domestic pressure for those countries to then somehow intervene? and the war writes, i think the essential point here is that western countries are trying to do essentially everything, but they can up to the threshold of directly joining the conflict on the side of ukraine. so, and you can see that they're trying quite carefully just to stop short of that threshold. so for instance, the debate that took place about sending warplanes from nato warplanes by the,
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from poland or by the u. s. i think it was that because it was the sense that a ukrainian pilots were allowed to fly planes from western countries into the battle space. but that would counted, you know, essentially that would be launching attacks from orlando, germany wherever. and i think he would see the same thing with respect to the volunteer. there would be an absolute prohibition on any serving members of military force in western countries going in any kind of official capacity. or even i think there would be a lot of concern even if there were going in and unofficial, they to, you know, in a context where it could be perceived does. right? neither forces fighting on behalf of your brain. but people who have military experience could left before says that i think would be seen in a different way. and i think it would essentially be understood that they were
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getting at their own risk. right. i don't think that even if they work that would significantly change that debate in western countries about participation. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thank you so much. all of our guest probably fell gonna how're anthony to work in and more sure. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is at ha, inside story from him. how much am june and the whole team here, bye for now? ah. from the london broadcast center, to special guests in conversation, christina, all about trying to get a superior reputation, unprompted uninterrupted. where we find the most profound similarity is not
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actually in our classes living relative. but it's in much more distant connection, intimately reflecting on the issues of our time. they're going to be a corporate of species carpeting, picking each other up and threaten each other all the time. studio b unscripted coming soon on al jazeera, living in a war zone is a risk not worth taking for most. but for a 10 year old boy, there is nowhere else to go. in the absence of his parents, his grandmother dedicates herself to his upbringing, never knowing whether the next explosion will echo one step closer to the place they call home. the distant barking of ducks, a witness documentary on al jazeera gutter, one of the fastest growing nations in the world. news on the card needed to oakland and development school international shipping company to become
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a p middle eastern pro or trade and wanting skillfully knocked out 3 key areas of devote who filling a prominence of connecting the world, connecting the future while the cost cutters gateway to whoa trade. ah, this is al jazeera ah po. this is the news hour on al jazeera. i'm 40 back to boy doha, with continuing extensive coverage of the war in the crate. coming up. russian forces target a ukrainian military base near the border with poland. mos.


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