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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  March 14, 2022 3:30am-4:01am AST

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many, even young teenagers have been drawn into, into some of this armed activity. and it, sir, these are groups that are very, very mobile or as you mentioned, they travel by motorbike are often they, they only need a few weapons to cause mayhem and chaos. and one of the things about the gold mining sector and became faso is that, although the largest mines are industrial mines, you know, big mining companies who can afford security and protection. a lot of the gold is also produced by artisan all minors. a young young people digging holes in the ground just as in, if you like, as in the california gold rush. and that makes it very difficult to protect these people. they're all working as crafts people at a local level, and they are very exposed in security terms. ah,
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this is al jazeera, let's get a round up of our top stories. russian missiles have had a ukrainian military training base in your body of 20 kilometers from poland. russia claims to have killed a $180.00 foreign fighters at the base. the regional governor says 35 people were killed. ukraine's president war nato countries. they could be next unless they take action now. not yet sure, liberal desert sky, but even if this is the war of our lives for ukraine, for independence last year, as warning the leaders of the world that if they don't have preventive sanctions against russia, russia will assault them, are saying that they have the weapons and they'll hit the whole of europe. and today i'm saying it again. if you do not close our sky, it's a matter of time when russian rockets will land on the territory of nato countries and kill the people of nato countries. a more than 2000 civilians have now been killed in ukraine's besieged port city of marty. you poll according to the city
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council. many of them are being buried in mass graves are 400000 people are trapped in the city. and officials say the last reserves of food and water are running out . in other news, iran has claimed responsibility for a barrage of ballistic missiles that struck near the u. s. consulate in the northern iraqi city of bill iran. in state tv reporting the attacks were aimed or what a called secret israeli bases. it said they were a retaliation for an air strike in syria, the killed 2 of its revolutionary guard members. vote counting is underway in columbia as legislative elections, 39000000 eligible to cast ballots. the result expected to set the tone for the countries presidential election. dozens of people have been injured in clashes between police and protesters on the french island of corsica, demonstrators taking place after a nationalist figure was attacked in prison. those are the headlines inside stories
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next. teaching in you can watch out as they are english streaming light on nike channels plus thousands of our programs. award winning documentaries and debt support. subscribed to you dot com forward slash al jazeera english ah. russia's war on ukraine isn't just being fought by the armies of the 2 countries. tens of thousands of foreigners are joining both sides. will they face consequences under international law? and how will they affect the conflict? this is inside story. ah.
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hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammer, jim, jim, russia and ukraine have mobilized hundreds of thousands of soldiers to fight the war. and both countries have made calls for foreigners to join their side. volunteers are already making their way to the front lines and al jazeera correspondent met these men from sweden and switzerland on the train from poland to ukraine. one said he faces 3 years in jail when he returns home, but insisted the sacrifice is worth it. ukraine says up to 20000 volunteers from 52 countries have signed up to join an international legion. you've this 1000 seats. requirement. we a you the person call that in your grant. that person goes to your grant. what as them science, walter was armed forces or you great. so this, this is not mess others who are come in to add money. no, not at all. this is a good view people. would you want government to assist your grave to fly for
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freedom? on the russian side, president vladimir putin has approved allowing foreign fighters. the defense minister says 16000 volunteers from the middle east are ready to join. the u. s. believes moscow is recruiting in syria where russia has been helping government forces since 2015. but the kremlin says those from the west who fight on ukraine's side will be considered mercenaries, with no protection under the geneva convention sticker. so, as to recruiting mercenaries all over the world and sending them to ukraine, we can see that they are the west and sponsors of ukraine. they're not hiding it. they're doing an openly neglecting every norm of international law. therefore, if you see that there are people willing to go there and help the people of on bass as volunteers, especially free of charge. well, we should grant their wish and help them reach the combat zone with digging. but a doom of who came up with the idea of trying mercenaries against our people. it
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effects from syria, from the country that was destroyed in the same way as the invaders are destroying us now. all right, let's take a look at the role of foreign fighters in conflicts. the war and syria had one of the largest mobilization of foreigners. thousands of them came from western europe to fight. after the rise of iceland, 2014, the un security council adopted resolutions to prevent the recruitment and travel of foreign fighters volunteers for ukraine had been signing up at a faster rate than even in 2014, in syria and iraq. some countries like belgium, have tried to discourage their citizens from going while others, like latavia, have approved a bill for people to take up arms for ukraine. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guess in moscow. hobble falcon, our defense and military analysts in providence, rhode island in the u. s. anthony to work and senior policy fellow at the european council on foreign relations. and in doha,
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omar assure founding chair of the door institutes critical security studies program, a warm welcome to you wall, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story omar, let me start with you today. all these foreign fighters that are joining the conflict in ukraine on both sides. what kind of an impact is that going to have? well, as historically, we know that it has a. ready an impact, some benefits and maybe a lot of costs on the benefits side. they depending on the type, they have a minute the impact on a word from the spanish civil war. when you have the international be gate was quantity means quality because of their numbers, the sheer numbers, even though for training and expertise. they managed to stop the franco's army from taking madrid and the grid didn't really fall except,
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except after the collapse of the war. after that, that's probably can the end of the war. so there's some medicine benefits. they increase the manpower of whichever side they go to. they help with logistics and supplies. some may bring method is expertise depending if they were regulars or regulars. so they fault before then that saying insurgency or, or in the warfare situation, or if they have for minute military training. meaning that they were part of an official armed institute. and also they help with the morale boost unit cohesion if especially the ideologues the heart course they, they help a lot with the unit cohesion, we know that and. busy but sometimes also they give international legitimacy goodwin, further recruitment of other foreign volunteers. and the depends
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on, on the, the, the, the narrative, the, the, the that is upheld. they help with some good internet additional getting for the legitimacy. of course, that's on one side. what the cost, of course, we know that any mobilization and any demobilization has a lot of costs. also the always the opposing side uses or abuses. so let's say that our volunteers, actual volunteers who are committed to the cause of defending crane that say, the other side, russia, in this case, will be saying that these are not volunteers, these are mercenaries. and if they're coming to to defend a democracy, they will be accused of being the extremist and so on. and the other way around. of course, the other side has also,
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i'm not saying that there are no longer there are no people with like some let's say, extremist ideologies involved. but they are very, very different types of reasons people volunteer. they're also mercenaries, meaning that they're actually paid to fight. so those also exist, but somehow volunteer most in that get brushed. sometimes you same brush but you let me, let me, let me get back to you on that point about mercenaries in just a couple of minutes. paul, let me go to you. how important is it for president at this particular time, whether symbolically or logistically, how important is it for him to have foreign fighters involved? well, 1st of all, we should the understand that there are no foreign fighters. there are in fact on the front line. none of the russian side and the very, very small number on the gradient side. so we're talking about a future kind of situation more than that. one that so rate you,
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there are president for food chin or, or the for the russian defense minister. this are you sure will public re told the president of there are lots of volunteers and syria with combat experience apparently who can wanted one to join the fight and the dom bus and the president. ok. that letter understood. understand it didn't come there yet. it's important for russia, of course, it's important symbolically that the russian cause is good cause and it's going to be joined by foreigners and the secondary. the russians actually have a very serious manpower issue of their military efforts in ukraine. the regular russian army is more or less all in not oh, of course it hasn't. captain wallets, troops, i mean, not from the coil islands, not from going in grad and so on. their places where you have to keep garrisons anyways, and they don't have much of trained reserves. so combat veterans from syria metal
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had actually fought with the russians and know the russians. they've been cleanser from dark rosara and then left po and good to together. so if they kind of join the fight, well back would help, at least partially in the problem with reserves. the break. now the russian military has anthony, i saw you nodding to some of what papa was saying this from let you jump in. but i also wanted to ask you, what are some of the legal ramifications when it comes to foreign fighters volunteering for a conflict such as this one? there's a big difference between foreign fighters who are kind of incorporated into the armed forces of one of the parties to the conflict, whether it's ukraine or russia, that is perfectly established procedure with historical precedents. that em, i mention the spanish civil war, obviously being
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a primary one and under the rules of war, it's perfectly accepted that you can bring people in. but the question is, are they part of a regular armed forces, or are they sort of freelancers who are kind of appearing on the battlefield, really of their own volition without formerly being incorporated into the armed forces. and that makes a certain difference because if they are part of the forces, then they enjoy what, not, who knows the privilege of the competence. in other words, if they're captured, they haven't committed any crime. they have to be treated as prisoners, the war. this is all us human that they fight in a lawful way, but their presence on the battlefield is accepted if they are just kind of free lancers or war tourists who are turning up with a gun, then they're in
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a different position because they're still counted the civilians but they're civilians who are fighting and so potentially they could be prosecuted under the law. busy of the opposing country for acts of violence. anthony, if i could just verify, if i could just also ask you though, do you, do you believe that is going to be enough concern about what types of fighters are out there by governments that they would initiate, releasing guidelines for their citizens to follow in the event that they want to volunteer in ukraine. there it's been looking at how western governments have dealt with this issue has been interesting and they've been some quite and answers. so obviously the governments in europe, the united states, are very committed supplying assistance to ukraine, short stopping short of joining the conflict themselves. and some of them,
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the british foreign secretary in particular, less trust went so far as to suggest that it would be a good thing for british citizens to go and fight. but the british defense secretary really kind of rode back on that comment. and i think he has the better case because encouraging your citizens who may or may not have any military training to simply go abroad into, obviously very dangerous zion. there are a lot of risk allowed. obviously the government can protect them. the motivations why people may be that could be quite mix, you know, there are concerns, obviously, about some of them when they come back. so it's, it's so complicated and delicate question. i think, you know, people who have extensive military experience so that they're not forces. perhaps
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they would be able to make that adjustment. there's also a question about how these people would fight when they're there. do they have the kind of discipline and training to fight in accordance with the laws of war? so there are a lot of concerns involved. omar, you were talking before about the different types of fighters you were talking specifically about mercenaries, and i'm curious to get your opinion about if governments are concerned about what may happen to some of these fighters once they actually return to their home countries, there is usually that concern, but actually most of that is when it comes to that concern it's. busy not the major concern because they're paid to fight if you don't pay them, they won't fight. so but others there may be some concerns with the you know, the volunteers, for example, the inferior and particular type of training that could be used in urban tetter building of ideas being in urban areas and so on,
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so forth. and. ringback because of the ideology, because of the world view, the perception was that they may cause a threat when they do, you mobilize and return back to the whole countries. especially if that i financially with an organization such as isis and, and others. and the case of creating, clearly it's a bit different. so i mean, i guess the main concern to the security services would not western security searches would not come out and say this publicly because they, they need to be the logical or politically correct. and so on, but there is a concern with all the due on one end. and there is a concern with the type of training that the, these volunteers will get. and of course, there is a concern for why did they go to the war in which organization got affiliated with when they go to the conflict area. some of the do not really exist in ukraine and they train conflict and initially did not exist in that he didn't
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conflict. remember that several volunteers rentals will to fight against the deputy dean back in the even that about 2011. and there was that there was limited, there was, let's say this concern then, when the case escalated, interior introduced to you in 2014, and licensed and so on, so forth. so the need are some differences. but also i want to say that the, the import an involvement, i may, may, i agree with everything that we started with, but i may just flip it on the foreigners because from the very beginning from 2014, there were foreign fighters for very different reasons. on both sides, in the korean case and beyond williams, mainly from the trans studia, some of the serbian saw regiment been volunteers to the fighting on the side of russia and some remnants of some but tell you in that fought for the
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russians in chechnya. also battalion is for one of them though they, they somehow, whether it created loosely within the, within the long company asking the backers back in 2014. but they showed, i think, i mean, they were very close to in 2014 they wedding crimea and would read using pictures soon. so they were there, ethnically chechens or i'm sorry to interrupt you on that side as well. the film, or i'm sorry, we are starting to run out of time, papa, let me, let me ask you this. when russian president putin and when the russian defense minister make the announcement that there are foreign fighters who would volunteer to go to dom boss? is this a decision that was made in order to count her what ukraine is doing when it comes to setting up an international legion? or was this done? because there is worry that russians would be unhappy if more russian forces would
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be called up to go into ukraine. low. yes, i say the russian, the political military readership have a problem with reserves. if this war begins to drag on and develop and go kind of war of attrition though, we serious problems with replacing manpower and general do attrition is not really what rushes that much ready for. and renouncing a mobilization and actually in the done boss in these are so, so for quain brit, what works, which are now recognized by russia, there is a total mobilization of the male population. but in russia, there is not a book in one public sitting there will be no reservists and no conscripts on the front line on the volunteers. or because you knows that politically, that you had the not very well and badly received by the russian public as long as
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it's of all volunteer force or sent me all volunteer fighting there. that's more politically acceptable. and so they all need, of course, well, in theory and russians actually are not flocking to volunteer to go to work. did she? yeah, very much. i mean, to earn the ukraine very much. and that's a bit of a problem on the other side, the ukrainians don't seem to have a man power issue. and i don't know will they form a foreign region or not? but they have a problem with specialists and commanders as they are expanding their military very much right now. there's lots of volunteers that are lots of reserve, a, some of them with military expertise. i mean with some experienced fighting in the dont boss but what different weapons now there's western weapons that need specialist and western weapons. even western colonels major's generals that would be advisors or at your commanders of newly formed units as the ukranian war effort
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expands. so these are different things. russians don't want her to have her. no, sir, general citing. it's a commanding their troops in the don't boss, but they need manpower. they trainings need not manpower, but they need the expertise and commanders make it possible. you also mentioned earlier that from your perspective these fighters wouldn't be ready any time soon. when do you think that they might be ready wondering if there's a logistical problem to bring them from syria, especially with the russian airplanes right now being arrested, the, not the world to move, fly out of russia. again, you have to kind of flow filter out who's in syria, who these people are. course the russians are already there and series they have, they are connections. there may be that will be a bit easier to bring those who want to really know how to fight and not those who just simply want to find a way to get a russian or actually a desk passport and then try to infiltrate hero and then not really interested in
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really fighting ukrainian armed forces. so that will take time to form kind of any kind of the large numbers on the i agree inside else are the numbers are not very high right now, but the bank, there's a lot of people ready to volunteer, but again, they're going to have a problem to discriminate who's there as a tourist, of those really grady to fight and actually know how to do it in little and do the ukrainian effort does not detract from it. anthony, from your perspective, um, whenever it is that more foreign fighters or volunteers are actually on the ground in parts of ukraine, do you believe that these fighters could face severe consequences under international law? it depends what happens to them and it depends how they fight. i mean, clearly, if the foreign fighters are captured by russian forces, there are,
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i guess 2 questions. number one is the question of what should happen to them. and they could be prosecuted if they're not part of a former military brigades. so, but as i understand it, there is at least an outfit to incorporate them into guide, in which case they should receive treatment, those prisoners. or then of course, there is sometimes the kind of special opprobrium that kind of catch to people who seem to be you know, from outside may be illegitimate. they don't belong there. they're particularly presented, you know, so i think they are potentially putting themselves at some risk, but it's not, they're not actually committing a crime by going and if they fight in the lawful way, then you know, there is no problem under the law. now of course, there is
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a question about whether the countries that they come from might want to prosecute them when they come back. and they're in the case of the u. k. for instance, there is a kind of law in the british statute book that says, fighting against the country the britain is not formally at war with is a crime, but that it's kind of, you know, not observed. and that was never used to prosecute people in the spanish civil war . and i didn't think it would be in this case. so really, the people who are prosecuted to the people who fight broke my patients, that their country's the most terrorists. and i mean, as, as we know, there are some extremist elements on the ukrainian sides bugs. i think the prevalent view would be that most people fighting and you crying now and not fighting for cause that western governments with the most terrorist. and therefore, i think we would see a different approach, anthony,
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for the fighters who are coming from nato countries. how much does that complicate the situation on the ground? and also let me ask you for countries who have fighters on the ground and ukraine, if those fighters were to get kidnapped or killed or injured, is there a fear in those countries that there would be domestic pressure for those countries to then somehow intervene? and the war writes, i think the essential point here is that western countries are trying to do essentially everything, but they can up to the threshold of directly joining the conflict on the side of ukraine. so, and you can see that they're trying quite carefully just to stop short of that threshold. so for instance, the debate that took place about sending warped mains from nato warplanes by the, from poland or by the us. i gave us that because it was the sense that
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a ukrainian pilots were allowed to fly planes from western countries into the battle space. but that was counted, you know, essentially that would be launching attacks from then germany o at that. and i think he would see the same thing with respect to the volunteer. there would be an absolute prohibition on any serving members of military force in western countries going in any kind of official capacity. or even i think they would be a lot of concern even if they're going in and unofficial. they you know, in a context where it could be perceived does, right and so forth, is biting on behalf of you find that people who have military experience who had left before says that i think would be seen in a different way. and i think it would essentially be understood that they were getting at their own risk. right. i don't think that even if they were that would
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significantly change the debate in western countries about participation. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're gonna have to leave the conversation there. thank you so much. all of our guests, probably gonna how're anthony working and more assure and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also, during the conversation on twitter, our handle is at ha, inside story from him or how much am june and the whole team here, bye for now. ah, living in a war zone is a risk not worth taking for most. but for a 10 year old boy, there is no where else to go. in the absence of his parents, his grandmother dedicates herself to his upbringing. never knowing whether the next
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explosion will echo one step closer to the place they call home the distant barking of dogs. a witness documentary on al jazeera, young women with a passion for space. i used to dream about working in a school company like not sound like a nasa, a small stuff, the science, a giant leap for women, kind in ca, gustavo, d for dog, place it and hide. and at the scheduled time, the satellite would be sent to space women, make science cag if on space school episode 5 on al jazeera, the heart wrenching goodbye, loved one, not knowing when they will unite again, women and children heading with relative safety, often leaving men behind among the furnace also trying to get out the train rise of
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a fee, but it's on a 1st come 1st basis here at the bus station. only a few rides available, and that's only to the surrounding villages. so people like me in rose, now need to find another way to get out of the city. but for now they, like many others, would have to return home, hoping tomorrow is a better day. ah, how long has m. c. k in doha, the top stories on edge 0, russian missiles of hid ukrainian military training base in nevada of 20 kilometers from poland. was a claims to have killed $180.00 foreign fighters of the base. the regional governor says 35 people were killed. john reports from yavari in western ukraine.
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he reportedly slow progress on major france. russia has widened its war on ukraine . the missiles that fell on a military training.


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