extend an extinct marine creature paleontologist say the snail shaped specimens found in bangkok or type of mollusk which died out more than 66000000 years ago. according to local media, the fossils might have been inserted as decorations by contract as during recent repairs. ah. just to look at the main stories were following now and pro choice an anti abortion demonstrators of converged outside the usa. supreme court, after elite documents, suggested justices could reverse the countries. landmark abortion law chief justice has confirmed the draft is authentic. miss or did an investigation into how it became public. the decades old roe vs wade ruling protects a woman's right to access abortion. nationwide. president joe biden has called a woman's right to choose fundamental, while at democratic senators have promised to pass legislation guaranteeing the

rights to abortion. this is a dark and disturbing day for america. last night, a report came out that a conservative majority on the united states supreme court is ready to overturn roe v wade and approved decades of precedent affirming decades of precedent affirming a woman's right to an abortion. it is hard not to feel angry, troubled deeply disturbed about what overturning ro would do to women across america. or other headlines over a 100 civilians evacuated from the besieged city of mario pollen. ukraine of reached the town of zap parisha, the group of women, children and the elderly were trapped inside the as of still planned for up to 2 months. many needed medical attention. the sprawling underground plant became a refuge for civilians and fighters as the city around. it was devastated by bombing. but there are still

a lot of concerns for at least 200 people who are still trapped inside. washer is confirmed. it's targeting the plot with artillery and ad power moscow resumed its attack shortly after the un backed evacuations were completed on sunday. and although $100000.00 civilians afford to be stuck in other parts of the city. and the ones after general is wont attacks in the south region of africa grind from a regional issue to a global one. target towers is cool for sources to help and the violence. he made the remarks while a najia one of the 3 countries he's visiting a terrace. assuredly does the u. n's top priority is to see peace and stability in this region. so those are the headlines this stream is the program coming out next? ah

ah. hi, amanda, have a dean and you're in the stream. the unsolved death of a young woman in northern mexico has shocked people across the country and highlighted an emergency of gender based violence in 2020. we here at the stream looked at the persistent crisis of from inside and mexico. but 2 years later, murders of women and girls based on their gender are still rising. today we ask why, here's a little bit more contacts from a day plus about the case of de bonnie escobar. oh mm

mm ah ah ah, ah, for more on all of this, we're joined from mexico city by edith early vidas pareto she is executive director at amnesty international mexico. also in mexico city as defining villa barber. she is executive director at inter sector a feminist organization and from one today we have chantelle flores, a journalist,

and author of our upcoming book about enforced disappearances of women in mexico. ah, of course we want you to join today's conversation as always send your comments and questions through our youtube chat. just read here and we'll bring them directly to our guests. ladies, thank you for being with us. i want to start shantelle directly with you because i understand you've reported on this for more than you know, the better part of a decade on family side. and you're in monte day where, you know, she was found. unfortunately, i want to ask you, what do we have to understand about this incident in the context of everything else that's happened? why is this problem getting worse? well, i will say the main thing is died out, authorities are not investigating, right? they keep seeing that these appearances, so we men and same size as isolated events and also us individual acts of bad behavior, right? they refused to, i know, listen,

when i say bay i'm talking about all the way from the municipal level to their federal level, right. so they go over men in every step and they keep refusing to our knowledge, their systemic ignorant qualities that women face across the country. but also the general context of these appearances that exceeds in the country. right. citing the pro lemon bars from there as we so we are there any gaze? there? she was there one to blame from for her own disappearance. right. and we keep seen this narrative that we are the ones to blame for our own debts and these appearances so. so the government blaming the victims, obviously an old narrative that was used once again. i do want to ask you us to find, you know, why do you think or is it true that this particular case and wanted a sort of reactivated a lot of people to actually speak out and get into the streets. is there something

specific about her case? i think this particular case has to do again with a very old story is going to be almost 30 years. for example, since or feminists particularly and families started announcing the increase of the murders of women and in the city of waters in chihuahua. so at least for 30 years we've been having in one way or another, this type of conversation. i think in this case i don't know about michael finalist, but seeing her in the street alone. and i think it's next many of us to that feeling of vulnerability and insecurity. and how, in spite of 30 years of this ongoing conversation, statistics show that we are nowhere near solving the problem. but actually that the problem continues, in many cases, it has become even more complex. and you know,

we're seeing some images there. you know, people react thing, it's a very visceral and emotional moment, but a moment that you said really spend 3 decades. let's listen what to what some protesters had they after they discovered the bodies body there in monterey, take listen. alright. it seems to me on this occasion concerning, do bonnie and all of the women that have been found in waverley on state. i want to say that we are not fools. we do not need to be lawyers or have a degree to realize that there is no justice, not even past humorously like you can get out of money. to be honest, it happens very often regardless of de bonnie. we have had several fantasize in one month. that is what we fight for. that is why we come here every time these things happen and also on dates like march, 8th, international,

when we come here to be heard and to make these things stop it as i see or nodding when you hear what some of those protesters had, say, what comes to mind about about where we are in this moment and, and how to move forward. i thank you. i think a, the biggest berlin, mexico is impunity. and that's why if it be berlin specially, women takes the streets to work best. and this is the other way, the, the other point in this conversation that we have to have because we are in this kind of spring feminine, his brain, the, in mexico. but it saw a some move men who are a increase in because they balance at gaines women are increase in i'm the ability, it's a obvious hog bit during this right 30. yes. and i, if i'm yet, and i'm, and as to for me or, you know, you're hearing i, you know, her kind of outline how long it's going, going some of what you said,

and we know the state is failing to actually address this. otherwise, you know, there wouldn't be a protest movement. we wouldn't be seeing, or even maybe having this conversation with that in mind as to finding out where does the role of data come in. i mean, is the government even aware of just the scale of the problem? i think 2 things are important. say data is key because if you don't have data, it's very hard to understand the problem. and if you don't understand the problem, it's very hard to come up with an adequate solution. in this regard, i think it's important to highlight 2 things in the 1st place. we don't even know really how many families side for our we do not have an adequate estimate of how many of the kids for women are related to gender based violence. even according to one of the many legal definitions we have. i think this speaks to the government, lack of interest in better understanding the problems. so that's one. how many cases like divine either are we can't even say for certain we know how many women

are killed, but not how many cases you know that the nitty gritty of the situation. on the other hand, and i'm sure we can talk about this more. yeah. how many women, let's remember that this case began. it was the knowledge that she had disappeared a few days when by without her body being found. and the magnitude of the problem of disappearance is in mexico is also on, you know, we have databases that instead of getting better ways have gotten worse. so i think that is one key element of the lack of interest in the problem. yeah. and you talk, you talk about the lack of interest, we also know that you know, many people criticize the government not just for being deflected, but really being negligent. and we have one comment from janice gallagher that kind of outlines what's actually going on with the government and how they're choosing to not address this. take a listen. you should understand why the case of the wind guard has received so much attention will need to remember that this is in the context of years of protests in

responsible, some aside and disappearances and mexico and endless promises by the government that things are going to change instead, what do we see? first we see a government who, their 1st instinct in this investigation was to blame the victim. second was the re just investigatory and forensic errors. and 3rd, was the government who still isn't taking responsibility both for the investigation . what happened to the guard, as well as picking all steps possible to make sure this never happened to anyone else? again, i'm curious and why is there so much impunity for gender based violence in mexico? i mean, why and what is being done about it or are you optimistic that the government will address it? no, i'm not optimistic at all, and i've been that was a general feeling or the collective feeling on april 22 during the protest. hearing month, the re, i've been covering the criminal road this for

a while and these one we got to remember that month that i know is very concerned, but the we don't see, the pro says there are many brokers that we usually seen mexico city. so on april 22nd, when 100 the we man took the 3 to protest. the general feeling was not only anger as we usually see, for instance, on march 8th. but he was the, it was devastating. it was bad. he was there was hopelessness that we couldn't, we don't know what to do anymore. you know. 8 i come here as a journalist, but i'm also a woman living in monterey and is just so frustrating that we don't be next to these. and the other thing is that the government refused to our knowledge. that the appearance that the women and girls are perpetrated by bold and state actors, criminal organizations. and these are sending formations to men in general,

across society, that they can also be a peer our bodies and nothing will happen to them. and i think that the carrier being right that there's these permission to do anything to, to we might and there are going to be consequences. and perhaps that's where the complicity comes in on the governments sort of in action as to funding. i saw that you were nodding as we heard from san tal there. i'm curious how well resources are police? are prosecutors, you know, in order to actually tackle these cases, not just the murders and family side, but also disappearances. i think that there's 2 things i want to highlight it on the one hand, how authorities react individual cases. and i think that as it has been said, this case is exemplary of what would be across the board. we have under funded institutions and this is the best case because many times we highlight, for example,

public servants that are much useless. what is tragic about our country is that even when you have public servants that are truly committed to because now resources aren't always what it's necessary to properly investigate the cases. so this is one thing and i'm sure these can, can job into it more. yeah, the other thing i want to highlight, and we can talk about this further is beyond the individual cases and how they are processed by prosecutors by court. what is the overall strategy of security? and one thing that i think it's important to highlight worth for the killings of women and for the disappearance of women, is that both have increased in the context of the so called war on drugs, which in the case of mexico included the increase of the strategy of militarized and public security. so it's not just that the prosecuting or, or justice institutions are failing, but the tools that we use to supposedly fight organized crime and not only not when . yeah, sorry, i don't want to cut you off. you're saying it hasn't solve the problem,

i'm going to let either finish your sentence because she was nodding, i know you want to get in there. what about what the funny thing is kind of on the mark here. yes. i think it's important to remember that he is up or them off. i indolence of this, they, this i have in the, in the state about a, by us having women and we have already, i don't know 30 years, i am or live a with this is deficiency in the situation of women killers. feel a is a quiet is and right now we can say, or mexico is there are into what is because they the feet, the number of key there's the number of disappearances of women. then there's the deficiency in the investigation of the more this and that is hit by and says of women at this same as 30 years ago. so it's are, it's warf i thing because if he is the sentence of comfortable nato,

we have all these for a mark or institution. fan, legal, a advances that they done b apply? yeah. back right there. and it's water. and oh, go ahead and go ahead. i'm sorry, go ahead. i think oh, so we need to be careful that we keep talking of our women as son, only genius group. right. and we got i remember that the women who were being keeley without the quite as they were workers. right. and we don't have the information to really understand their dynamics. so violence in each state in mexico and to understand what is the more vulnerable group of women are at risk of being bent appear and feel. we don't have that information, not because we keep saying don't kill us, but we are not the same even as women where not been hearing they intersect. in

fact, there is no and that's in for attending the pre. i appreciate you bringing that up obviously as well. you know socio political factors, geographic factors, and that's why the data is so important as you've been making the case for our audience. who may not know, i don't know what the exact statistic is, but we've been pointing to the fact that a lot of crimes in general in mexico or they go unsolved even unaddressed. i've seen numbers upwards of 90, maybe 98 percent of crimes. with that in mind that i want to share what this translates to in the streets, in the homes for people who are directly affected by this. there's a level of anger that is very palpable, that i want to try to convey to our audience through this clip, which includes the mother of a missing woman to take listen. oh, can i tell you that if you want to know authorities, don't you what they have to do in a timely fashion for them? when someone goes missing, they are just absent or lost. they continue arguing that we need to wait 72 hours to start searching instead of going forward in the attorney's office for missing

people. and we seem to be going back to weeks. yep. odyssey book. but a think about more about that. no, but other than it was at the new company at us again, see though they support his he desk and you know i have had friends who have gone missing, who've been raped and nothing has been done about it. and are specific cases have drawn attention from the authorities, but this is a reality that has exceeded because this is something that has been going on for many years. and then what you're trying to find here, you've heard these women. i see that you're nodding with a lot of the points that they're making. i don't want to spend too much time talking about the president, but this new york times article sums it up quite well. mexico's president says most domestic violence calls our fake. he is also deflected and down played this by saying, you know, this really happens everywhere. it's not specific to, you know, the problem isn't specifically problematic here in mexico, as to finding out that anger and the presidents and, and,

and the government on all, they just like to address this. i mean, do you, do you see any hope that in 30 years we won't be having the same conversation another 30 years? that's why we're here. i think i think the 3 of us have that hope that by creating enough awareness, by betting rural our efforts and not just everybody, those currently an adult but on kids and children and everybody there, there is a possible change. i think the difference between right now in 30 years ago is that we at least have some lessons as to what has been work, which i think it's an important lesson. like i mentioned, one of the things that time goes by and more evidence is accumulated is if you want to fight these levels of violence which are extraordinary and continue on there. this government militarization is not the adequate strategy. if you want to work

with prosecutors and police, they need to be well funded. they need to be properly trained. they need to have adequate institutional framework. this is also important because just to mentioned in this case, for example, william has a special prosecutor for feminine side. so in 30 years, we have created specialized institutions for gender equality. and what we're seeing is that if you still don't have a deeper institutional reform, right, these institutions are going to be out and obviously, so please please. sorry, i don't mean to cut you off and it's your point. no, no, no. i was just, i only yeah, yeah. let's learn from 30 year right by that can be applied. and so many conversations here at the stream, you know, so many lessons perhaps go and learn for too long, and that's why we're talking about them still. but since, how would that in mind, you know, we've heard about the need to address this on the governmental level, institutionally. what about the culture? of course, it's all very linked, you know,

lot of people online. and in our comments saying, patriarchy plays a big role in all of this, preventing the investigations. what can you share with us about that is not accurate? yes, definitely. i mean, month erasing the nord the so bear my taste as society conservative. the main objective in the society's economic progress, right? so usually human rights violations, or any social issues are being called or by the government, right. and the media to because we also eventually need to play about the role of the media, mainstream media these. but you know, i really wanted to highlight dad, i called thrill change that we had seen. yeah, we have a strong feminist movement or movement. oh, we also have a very soon as strong movement of families and mothers of that these up here who are leaving this search. and i think would usually separate, you know,

his sides. we based moran, all families, shantelle your work personally with a lot of those families. i know because my producer told me and so i'm glad you brought it up because i was, i was curious. there's one anecdote about how families are coming to you to sort of, i don't know how to put it really, but this desire to sort of go viral. i mean, it's not just the case that we heard about recently. could you share with our audience just just sort of phenomenon quite tragic? yes, that has been, i think har breaking in their past weeks because they sealed that pension. that no, i will, you know, on, and not only the bad news case, but all their disappearance and seen this in this state has gained. and they text me, you know, alive. how can i make it to the new york times? how can i, you know, bring all of these attention to the case of my missing daughter, and many of those cases they know that their daughter has been me seen even for over a 1000 years. right. so i think it's really frustrating that we have created our

seats, sam, when, as social media and the public, the side which lives the serve, the at things. right. right. and i think that's our brand and edith, i want to come to you. but before i do, i want to share with you 3 in our audience video comment that came in from jennifer episcopal kind of outlining why she thinks that impunity needs to end. and how we may go about doing that. take a listen. mexico state and federal governance less and absurdity. freddie's s. her traders are rarely held accountable to hardy and shelling women, which sends the message that the abuse is not important and continue. the problem is that prosecutors, governors, and even the president himself spout massage and estimates that hold women responsible for the crimes against them. suggesting for instance, that women are loose or moral and therefore to serve the violence. this is not true . accountability must start at the top, and it's voters who must hold politicians accountable. they must boat out the

governor's parties and the president who stout, such and such a mystic ideas. they must send the message that the nasa political leaders are responsible for investigating crimes properly. and for bringing perpetrators to justice. so you know, i'm curious if you agree, she says, accountability must start at the top. she was a lot of what's already been discussed on the show moving forward. where does accountability start? and how can we reform the system? yes, a i e in, i mean that interesting to, to point to late the point is that these kind of a disorder during our state eith a institutional by your name. and this is faith state of mexico. i mean, the cfo of mexico not only the, an in there in the state in the federal that may go by the mexican, the state is guilty of institutional by units against the beek. things of that b, a women disappearance is an victim of or feminine site. because these are the state

who made a lot of by your names without wheat, they beat them with the families of they right. they delayed the process, they a at that the families a at and they don't have their families don't have and it may be never yeah with just this and that may have if i and i'm curious to bring justice san tall, where would you put your, your flashlight, the 1st thing that needs to really be focused on for those who want to want to see justice in these cases. i think right now something bad the families of the missing are me saying is the support from the rest of society as they have seen in the past days that our family god, that's or in some way. right. so i've been, the main thing is to continue with these is mauro society because this society yeah, is divided, but there will be guide is that pays their pain, their caring and their pain. we are not willing to see in our fellow citizens.

right. i think that's the 1st thing he sprawled lumniss collective and we got a star, you know, joining their families in the spike. and then from there i think we can do a lot to keep the government accountable. we got to still, yep. focusing on these reform and these because there is no bully rental, we'll resources or anything. right. right. and you know, we have a lot of a lot of comments in our youtube section. i want to read one out before we go. this is from least saying may be classes to educate mexican boys while still in school. the girls and women are not objects or disposable. so obviously pointing to the cultural education that needs to happen. a lady's thank you for sharing your voice is with us. that's all the time we have for today, but this is a conversation we're gonna continue to, to cover here at the stream. thanks for watching. see you next time. ah

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