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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  May 25, 2022 10:30am-11:01am AST

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it somebody believed he was targeted because of his work. as a journalist is widow, our son isn't as confident the report the government will release or bring closure . he just unordered cancer and for the people without knowing how can you forgive somebody, you don't know who look at your husband, how can you fung it up as you have to have justice then then of that me forgive neither quins that one before that we need justice for her justice means punish those responsible for the crimes committed, including jojo di me or she says still has some influence in the gap. yeah. the government says it took this long to ensure a thorough, unsatisfactory job of investigating allegations of rights abuses of issues hold government action on the rights commission's recommendations, could heal wounds and reconcile a nation struggling to come to terms with its recent past. but most victims like use of him by remain skeptical how many degrees al jazeera, by jewel,
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the gambia. ah, your ga, 0 with me to hell rahman in dough. hot reminder of all top stories. a gunman has killed 19 elementary school children, and 2 teachers in the state of texas. it happened in the city of the val day near san antonio. now it's again prompting calls for greater control. president biden has ordered flags to be flown at half staff after the shooting in texas. he pleaded for action to address gun violence, blaming manufacturers and their supporters. the blocking legislation in washington, ukraine's president says russia is trying to destroy everything in the eastern don math region. rather, miss zalinski is urging the west to keep up a regular supply of heavy weapons to keep rushes. defense minister says as no deadline for the fighting. and it could continue until its goals are achieved. the
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u. s. and south korea have conducted live fire drills, hours after president joe by left the region. it follows north korea's launch of 3 missiles from soon on towards the sea of japan sole calls pyongyang actions a great provocation. those were the headlines i be back with. more news in half law next on al jazeera is inside story of mohammed jam june to stay with us. me the. what was good to know that on this, which i don't need to be with them. when you look at me, when you put them to me, i think i missed you open the home and ya today. and we're going to give you what we said. that's what they put
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me in. i'm a lot of them at the book. if you're the one i know, i mean, i mean, i shooting them off and just feel from the front lines al jazeera correspondence continue to report every angle of the war in craig, we've been given access to this special unit, making sure there's no threats behind those front lines, there's almost nic complete, destructive fighting back, a russian assault holding background forces. the scale of destruction is just now being revealed as we arrived. meek elias,
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there is panic. a russian war played is suspected of being close by. stay with al jazeera for the latest developments. ah, al jazeera, when ever, you know, has russia achieved any of its war objectives in ukraine? it's 3 months since vladimir putin launched his so called special operation, is the continued conflict complicating efforts to find a diplomatic solution. this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammer, jim job 3 months into russia, so called special military operation in ukraine. the invasion appears to be turning
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into a, drawn out war. thousands have been killed, millions are homeless. many communities are in ruins. leaders from both sides say they're far from any talk of a ceasefire. ukraine's president is warning of a blood bath, as russian forces intensify operations in the east and the south. the low to mid zalinski demanded even tougher western sanctions to send a message to the kremlin. that brute force will not prevail. germany's energy minister says the european union is closing in on an agreement for an embargo on russian oil. and a russian diplomat has resigned in protest, boris bonder, av says he's ashamed of what he calls the war. mongering lies and hatred by rushes foreign ministry, same as ravi reports from ukraine's capital. keith. the war in ukraine has not gone as expected. keith was meant to fall to russian invaders in a matter of days. 3 months after missiles shells and paratroopers began landing in
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and around the capital, ukraine is putting the spoils of war on display. morales and anger at russia are now so high. ukrainian say the only acceptable victory will be taking everything back occupied territories in the east. even crimea stuck. yeah. if you do, some was live. yes, i believe the return of our territories is possible, and i think we should not top, i believe there should not be any negotiations about returning to the theme borders we have before the start of this war on, you know, we should get our citizen call me back, this is our so we're in country and we should defended these numbers. i am. truth is on our side. we are defending our land. we really want and hope for this to happen. so yes, you probably need to weapons and then our, our army, real real do everything, and we will when i am not to, i'm sure there was less optimism when all our war came to ukraine on february 24th
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. russian president vladimir putin so called special military operation was the biggest assault on a european state since world war 2 the, you an estimate at least 14000000 people have been displaced so far, at least 6000000 to neighboring countries. when missile had ukrainian army base at yahoo as near the border with nato member, poland, it was the 1st russian attack in the west of the country. the siege of mario pole so violent it wiped the city off the map. leaving little doubt as to how far russia was willing to go to achieve a teams. unable to penetrate ukrainian defences around the capital, rushes withdrawal from boucher revealed civilian killings that ukraine described as war crimes. the invasion did change the map, but not perhaps his prudent had hoped finland and sweden applying to join nato stands to more than double the alliances border with russia. just
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weeks ago, independent square was under locked down and covered and snow. now people line up to buy stamps commemorating a moment in the early days of the war when ukraine, in no uncertain terms, told russia to leave its territory. i hope was that it was the weekend that when in this war and we can survive. so for me, it's a sign that we have a chance for a good future. things look very different in the ukranian capital. today. diplomatic missions are reopen and people are returning and ukrainian seemed far more optimistic. all the cautiously than they did at the beginning of this war. the war is not over. russian forces are escalating offensive, and ukraine's east re mobilizing forces to battlefields in the south. all indications are consequent, russia is the new normal. and as long as russia controls the skies over their
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country, nowhere in ukraine is completely safe. in basra, v o g 0, keith ah. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests and levine and western ukraine to meet your show gum european program director at the international renaissance foundations in london. don't tell us more. so senior lecturer, insecurity and development in the department of war studies at kings college london and in moscow. dmitri bob, it's political analyst at the, you know, asked me internet media project a warm welcome to you all. and thanks so much for joining program today. to meet so let me start with you. is the war essentially at a stalemate? now it has this basically become a war of attrition that the stage ah, it is an active face. it is a war operation by the same time. it is not like a belief creek, it's already a 3rd month, actually end of the 3rd month. and there is no end of the war inside. so
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it's like it's more like world war one, maybe in terms of space. now, what we are having in, in the eastern ukraine, the way the major fighting is going on. dmitri, has russia achieved any of its objectives in ukraine and where do things stand militarily right now from the russian perspective? well, i can, you said my menu, right? yeah, i also read, for example, you give, you know, the german magazine where i gave you the assessment, the situation. and it was very popular with russia. he thinks that there were actually 3 stages which was one of their reasons for the war. the 2nd was the decision to invade in february this year, which was the 2nd stage. and now we have the united states all more
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and more. thank you. the amount of weapons you know, for $40000000000.00 on the 8th grade, which one shows that doesn't want that to be another. they wanted to be an act your war in which russia would lose. as for russia, the goals and they were part of them where and she because you know, great media was now what is coming to premiere role. mother ukrainian. ready basically have saw, which is an important thought was the marble was taken. i think however, russians have know that the main goal was to do move the front line away from going yeah. which is a huge mega which do you need to be bombarded by the,
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your brain. so bottle, there were just, there was no change, which was probably one of the new show was that's why the russian tried to move towards from the russian. they retreated now, so the story already changed. so we changed. we can say that this is delilah. how much is the continued conflict complicating efforts to try and find a diplomatic solution? well, i think at the moment there isn't really a very strong diplomatic initiative. i mean that there were a fee proposal that was brought forward, for example, by the talent government. but they also does it, for example, that that would be a retreat of russian forces from the areas that they have occupied in ukraine. and i think that is probably not going to happen. so i think that at the moment that there is much higher chance that fight will continue with great intensity on only
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either a 1. 1 of the 2 sides decides that they want to sort of gave up on play for some kind of diplomatic solution or both sides after quite some time sheet that they really need to reach some kind of that they have really just sort of hurting, stay made and they decide to sort of reach some kind of sci fi agreement, but i really don't think that we are there now. i think both sides seem very determined to continue with a fight. and i think because as was explained, the objectives and whatnot achieved russia has not been able to defeat the ukrainian armed forces, which is one of the main objectives. on the other hand, the ukrainians are states, you know, fighting hard to make sure that they, this large, they're russian occupies from the areas of the east on the south. so i think this, this is going to be a war that's going to take
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a quite some time steady. and i think that any diplomatic efforts at the moment i'm not going to see any results so that i'm not very optimistic on that front of. it's also understandable demitra, where does ukrainian public opinion stand when it comes to the, the possibility of some kind of a potential diplomatic solution. and also in the early stages of the conflict, it was being reported that the, perhaps president zalinski might be amenable to giving up some territory or, or possibly to agree to neutrality for ukraine. if that were to happen, would the public support that no, no, there's definitely definitely more than the brain that we cannot we can compromise our referral integrity to and we can't compromise so, so there there's so much human losses. what is my life?
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there's so much losses, so when they're, if so many atrocities have become known, what, what russians are committing on these temporary bite areas of ukraine. so it is absolutely a non negotiation, both non non negotiable, to compromise with the russians and to agree on some sort of i don't know what the shooting of ukraine or something like this will give up some land or something like this. simply not. and it's definitely now support for an appetite for sticking some sort of a cease fire agreement, which i mean like what has been done in 2014, 2015. when basically it was a grim and so called me, it's agreement when there was a fire and russians basically haven't fully implemented this is
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far and they haven't withdrawal with their own their forces from the temporary bio areas. and then later they're now just basically used to be improved by the creamy and temporary by a don bus area to launch a larger scale up on ukraine. so that's why we understand that what we need is related to have a session agreement where but a condition would be 1st for actions to withdraw their forces and except that they should restore ukrainians territorial integrity. chance warranty. it's clear now that the russians are not the not there. so that's why i agree, a rush and i'm not accepting this now, and they're not ready to withdraw their forces. so that's why basically the war continues because russia started this invasion and they want to continue this invasion and they want to put their terms on the ukraine, which is an acceptable ukraine,
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is the basically doing it self defense. we are defending our country, and there is no compromise on i with it, but i don't think that you also mentioned dmitri from, from your vantage point. you know, obviously diplomatic efforts have failed thus far. do you think that they could pick up again at some point? and do you think that there is the potential to have president putin a president zelinski meet at some point, perhaps face to face? went to the meeting face to face. the very belligerent statement from president lemke just recently if you all. ready go. ready which means basically, you know, you said that you will all the need with no one else. and that you will only talk about the withdrawal or russian troops. that means that the media is not one
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anytime in the future because the positions of the size are 2 different. i will say that the change during the 1st days the ration once more, you remember how you said that neutral stages could be acceptable and would be the goal she did and then they bring it. busy again, you know, membership and the utah state just as a possible solution, but then you just you know, they propose, well they, they change their position. so this was the reason why negotiations did not restart . i think i asked for the 2 sides. so i respect that and i think you write on it, but i would advise our viewers to read the means. you know, they were fine at the moment when you bring and it was basically losing against the
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media. and the main points was one of the points was about the special status to the russian region in the east that was not done. the 2nd was about the 8th. you know, the sample that read all the told you on, don't you, there was no food for them. you know, what decrease, you know, so basically irrational green field and the what russia, if you look at them, it was not mentioned on the agreement that the all foreign groups removed from your russian groups. but know that the. ready are building up, be their base chop up in the south of your brain. they said it was crazy about
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no one would check this training. so it was basically need to be american warships in, in the black t all the time. you know? so the reason why we decided the way to do a lot of people in the old and the reason why he acted the way it was because he would not be an allow more basis. busy nato got your phone or your brain and he was afraid that finally sleep out of control as more and more ukrainian by the train by american radiation struct. more and more weapons were large and. ready especially that 2 months before february 20th would make his announcement. and look, i mean russia or just the regular army from don't boss. so if you're great, and i mean that when i was still in russia that they will do that would have
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crushed. dimitri donya communities. me 3, i'm there was a wonderful, i'm sorry to interrupt you. we're starting to run out of time. let me pick up on one of the points you were making in just a moment with another question, dummy killer. so germany is saying that the european union is likely going to agree to an embargo on russian oil imports within days. what kind of impact do you think that that's going to have? is that something that would, that would automatically we can russia i most of you that the sanctions are weakening very much the russian economy. and that is part of the objective. it's not really a regime change as is often mentioned is actually really to weaken the of the capacity of the russian economy to sustain the military conflict. so i think it's, it's very important to, to continue with sanctions, even though there is some, maybe any media change of the actions of russia on the ground. i think it will have an impact. definitely because russia is relying very much on selling oil and gas to
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western markets and to europe in particular, as far as cost is concerned, and also always so on. the prices are much higher. so when russia has to say it's energy products to either consumer is in the east or nobody they tend to buy now at lower prices. so russia is losing out. and i mean, it's also going to be a cost maybe for the global energy market. so of course, there is a cost to be, to be paid as a result of these sanctions. but from the european perspective, i think there is increasing agreement that this is the right approach. that we can't be fighting, you know, are russia and ukraine on, at the same time, become sort of one of the main purchases of its energy products. so i think that the consensus at the level of a european union is increasingly being reached. it will take a bit of time,
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but i think that that's probably where we are heading demi through the u. s. u, they have imposed lots of sanctions against russia thus far. president and let's can other ukrainian officials have said that the more sanctions need to be imposed from your perspective. have the sanctions that have been imposed thus far actually had their intended effect. have they acted as a deterrent? they say i'm in the 1st of all to react toward the mid 3 in those set because it's fake news. what you said about nato's basis in ukraine, on the gram stairs there was no permanent basis anywhere in the ukraine. and generally speaking, ukraine until 2014 was a very pacific country where the military, virtually nonexistent, where the nose public support for nato membership at all since 2014,
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when russia ukraine, aggressively, absolutely on ground, it took part of its territory, grania and part of don, boss, of course ukraine had to build up its military and of course the crane had to seek support and the cooperation with other 1st of all the natal, which is able to provide military support. ah, and actually if we look from that perspective, it is actually russian leadership, but there's put in who is putting ukraine, moving force and ukraine to move to natal. because natal 6 protection from russia. by the way, the same way is now sweden and finland, which realized that they need to have protection from russian aggression. dmitri, you were talking about nato a few moments ago. dimitra, which is talking about nato, that obviously plays a role in all this. i mean, president putin did not want ukraine to become a member of nato,
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but now you have finland and sweden that have applied to join nato. and there are many analysts who suggest the nato is in a stronger position now than it was 3 months ago. did, did president putin actually foresee that finland and sweden might apply to, to join nato if, if, if this course of action were taken in ukraine? well, 1st of all, i would like to make some corrections decisions on what i just said. we will neutral, said that i said there were need to be on the job. you know, there were basis training organized by the state. the read them formally. they were not legal basis, but you factor who are you great was becoming a member, was there are american, are in stock. those are or specialist or in the 3rd grade everywhere and all that. as for your question of all of those with them, i mean look at the use in the west. the media never goes on or
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exercises in which senior, since we've groups together with groups and they were all again. so russia was both we don't know what, no, no longer be neutral. but i think in the, in the end, this is the wall of below the image of europe. you know, europe was a peaceful wantna with many neutral countries. now there is just bombed else, weeks, the land and even switzerland is not huge. ro compete, you know, dmitri, i'm, so i'm so sorry to interrupt you again, but we're almost out of time, and i just want to ask them until a 1. 1 last question here at them until we have about 30 seconds left. is there any member of the international community that you think can offer an off ramp to president putin, that, that he would deem acceptable? i think in a way that's not a good adequate question. because i think that putting should not be offered around
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to say he's space. i think it's very important to send a clear message by the international community to rush on other members that these kind of media progressions to neighboring countries are completely unacceptable. and that these sort of situations are not going to be accepted globally in the future. they have to stabilize the european continent. they have created a lot of distress, human casualties, and down inside the grain. there are serious problems, noble in terms of supplies of food and fertilizes. for example, the prices of energy also skyrocketed their problems, which we haven't really discussed around the blockage of the export of products of ukraine through the black sea. and this is creating, as i said, a rise in food program products. so all these elements which now have serious global implications. and now there are discussions among the united kingdom monday
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to ask whether do something to the block, the block c and the access of ukraine. a so that it can export its products because it's really having serious global repercussions to the global economy at a time when the economy was already trying very slowly to recover from the impact of it. so i think that at the moment the emphasis should be on trying to help you crane to you really reduce rushes, military presence in your brain as much as possible and see if some kind of agreement can be reached. that results in russia withdrawn at the moment, the only actor that could maybe put pressure on russia is of course china. but china seems not at the moment, ready to sort of put pressure on russia to reach some kind of agreement on retreat . and instead, is playing a sort of a, a game of that sort of support in terms of political understanding of the position of russia. and in a way, sort of providing, you know,
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that the markets that russia needs for the export of many of the energy products. so i really don't see a possibility of any sort of immediate negotiated solution and let a non one back what are now going to sort of save you space and that sort of iran. thank. all right, well we have run out of time. we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much. all our guest to meet your sugar to matilda sagamore. so and dmitri babich and thank you for watching because see the program again. any time by visiting our website, al jazeera dot com and further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also run the conversation on twitter or handle is at ha, inside story from him. how much am jerome the whole team here? why, for now a 2
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