tv Inside Story Al Jazeera June 9, 2022 10:30am-11:01am AST
shoes or who they can sell their products to southeast asia is known for its strict drug laws. the changes mean about $3000.00 prisoners serving time for cannabis crimes will be released activist said ok. he pushing for the rules on recreational use to be east alixia. brian al jazeera former us olympic gymnast, including simone biles, have filed a $1000000000.00 lawsuit against the f. b i. around 90 claimants say the bureau miss handle isn't handled as investigation of former team, dr. larry nasa. he's serving decades and present for sexually assaulting the athletes. the f. b, i is accused of failing to act when it 1st received allegations of misconduct about nasa. ah, no, without his era, these are our top stories. the somali president hassan shake muhammad as being inaugurated as a ceremony in mogadishu,
mohammed maize history last month by becoming the 1st president to be elected to the position for a 2nd time of to weeks of fairs fighting russian forces have taken control of most of the eastern ukrainian city of savannah, don asked president vladimir zalinski says it's a difficult and brutal battle that will decide the fate of the dumbass region. she will de niche clear that ganette has remained the epicenter of fightin don bars at the end of the $150.00 they of the large scale war we are defending our position such and inflicting of the significant losses on the enemy. said durham, forestall is very dreadful and difficult for it. perhaps now is the one of the most difficult battle during these war. i am thankful to each and every one who is defending in this direction. to a great extent, the fate of dom buses is being decided there. now you as legislators, have her testimony from an 11 year old school girl. you survive last month's school
shooting and texas. parents of other victims also testified and called for reform. the house of representatives later passed gun control measures which the senate is unlikely to approve. his present biden has stressed the importance of investing in supply chains during his opening address of the summit of the americas in los angeles. but somebody does or boy crossing the events because washington refused to invite cuba, venezuela and nicaragua, citing the human rights records. y'all, darian bank association, says a ban on all imports from spain has begun. after all, dear julia entered a 20 year friendship treaty on wednesday, st. backing of morocco on a disputed territory in the western sahara desert has angered algeria. spain's foreign minister has called the decision regrettable. brazil has deployed helicopters to a remote part of the amazon to search for an indigenous expert and a british journalist who disappeared on sunday. the government has been under pressure to step up efforts to find bruno perrera and don phillips. ferrera had
received death threats for his work, helping to protect indigenous groups. your upstate now with all the headlines i'll be back with more news here on al jazeera. after inside story stay with i was the right here to report on the people often ignored, but who must be heard? how many other channels can you say? we'll take the time and put extensive thought into reporting from under reported areas. of course we cover major global events, but our passion lies in making sure that you're hearing the stories from people in places like palestine, libya, and then the south region, and so many other, we go to them, we make the effort, we care, we state the king and queen of belgium, our in democratic republic of congo, depend, i say, is the chance for reconciliation given the scale of atrocities committed on the belgian colonial rule, how much progress can be made?
this is inside story. ah oh, welcome to the program. i'm kim vanelle. and legacy of belgian colonialism in central africa and the course of 2 centuries, millions of people believe to have been killed or mutilated. and what's out one day, democratic republic of congo. the arrival of belgium's royal couple on their 1st visit to the country is being billed as a way to move forward. but without a long list of historical grievances. and he congolese, a skeptical any real action or accountability can be achieved. you know, i wish that the president takes care of what is important to the con, the lease, instead of making use his expenses by inviting this royal couple. we have important things to settle here, like free education. teachers are not well paid,
but the president prefers to invite the belgian king to do what to loot us again. yes, i am happy with the arrival of the belgians king because he is going to come and see what they have left us. if you, the congo has evolved again backwards. it is like a mother who abounded her children for years. and she comes back to check how the children are living. so let him come what we don't know what he is going to bring us. if it is to destroy us even more, we don't know if the belgian is well aware of the history in what was then the belgian congo in 2002 brussels formerly apologized its role in the fascination of patrice. remember the conqueror, lita served as the 1st prime minister of after independence and was an important politician until his assassination. in 961. elton was expected to return members tooth to the family stolen by a belgian police officer who confessed to participating in the assassination the
atrocities which included forced labor, torture amputations, and rape began in $1885.00 on the king leopold the 2nd. about 10000000 congo leaves died. the king's brutal rule was deemed so cruel that 23 years later he was forced to relinquish control to belgium's parliament. that the congolese was still unable to own land vote or travel freely before declaring independence and 960 democratic republic of congo had become africa, the richest quality producing about 70 percent of the world's industrial diamonds. most of the prophets, however, went to belgium. brussels has acknowledged some of the abuses carried out during its 75 year roll. many argue it's public apologies have fallen short. ah, and spring in our guests in london, jonathan alpha on sir publisher of africa briefing and to pan african use magazine . in brussel, theodore treyvon,
a researcher at the well museum for central africa and author of the book, congo, masquerade also in london. phil clark, professor of international politics at so last university of london variable. welcome to you all. thank you. thank you for joining us. you know, and inside story i'd like to begin with you, phil clark, if i may, returning the tooth of the 1st congolese prime minister. i mean, the whole thing just speaks to the brutality of all belgian rule. i guess colonialism at that time. what does it return mean? what does it signify? i think the return of la members to really is a reminder of just how much belgium and particularly that the belgian monarchy to build belgium leadership sol from conger are including the physical remains of some wonders politically important as, as patrice lombardi. so it's a reminder that this wasn't just about the massive theft of physical goods,
the looting of a congress wells, or it was also that the best of human lives. and, and of course, this is also a reminder of the importance of luma, english history or a sense of what was last this described, missed opportunity in connolly's politics. this revolutionary leader who was assassinated with the complicity of the belgian regime or other external of his tooth is enormously up politically relevant and something that has resonated down through the decades about to pass over to jonathan off i answer, what's your take on the significance of this and talk to me a little bit more if you can about your sort of thoughts on patrice, the mom. but why he the scene is set to such a threat by, by the west. if still need to reach out to you, sam is to be near the symbolic. ok. i'm in. without it he sucked us was
horrible. to have it set up. i was, he said, a good any shambles. ha. maybe try to repair repair. oh mitchell, now immense. was it m, egregious are true cities, me to doubt. jared, the real affair kinda opposed to 2nd who i may use a go as pissed off hebrew. right. and a little bit about him in the, in the, in the gussy did mediate pasco inaccurate in africa. i mean, we had in co, my gonna, we are the other reddick out, the it is, and he's the west. so as a free and do forget that the, the cold war was also running the cooler between the west and just to get you to was running should every, each side was jostling for influence on the continent. and when he comes to a google, a mean netflix, google, your google, as it was known in those days, and it had massive resources asked we'd, we'd know today. okay,
so the what feel was that they're not lumen by what are going to, carla, will buy, was a safety if somebody who wanted to, i said it could go to dependence, the desk put its car, but i said it's economic independence. and he feared me that it was shipped a was shipped to the east. so what you have to do was to any, believe it at a one by and what about loss and arm it's muscle restored. it wasn't that last doctoral. m m m m coco. but the whole of africa as well fatal tough on there been various statements and apologies to some extent by the belgians over the years. have any of them taken in the full extent of, of the atrocities that were committed to have any of them taken full responsibility? can that be done? the yeah, this is a big difference between french and english about the word that you used,
which is apologies. and that's the been debate today. is king philip going to express once again he regrets or is he going to express an apology? because if he expresses an apology, that could result in belgium having to make financial destitution to congo. and that's, that's something that we don't know what's gonna happen. but the king's visit is certainly not unanimously welcomed either in call or indulge and the right wing party b n b a in belgium is opposed to the king's visit to come on now. and they're certainly opposed to making any properties because that could have financial implications of adoption actually. or we have to realize that distribution is taking place in a very, very important context of belgium politics and in congress,
east politics. it's the same time. this is a diplomatic convergence. it's a major accomplishment for president chester kidney. and as a reminder to your audience, jessy, katy was not ecstatically elected president. she became president to deal making with that which can be like another another actress, 3 years ago. and the same thing with, with philip, now there's a lot of divergence in belgium about whether or not he should be the travel to congo. and what's the whole nature of this big debate which is restitution? there was a mask that was just unveiled in the the yeah, history you see, and in contrast, that came from diverse museum and you know, this thing about restitution is very much a way of clarifying belgians colonial passed. and does
a lot of emotional, lot of ideology, and we're seeing this not only in belgium, but we're also see in congo. so where our phillips visit is not universally welcomed. ah, jonathan alpha on. so i'd like to come back to you as we talk about in the colonial past, but what are the ongoing impacts of colonialism on democratic republic of congo today? what, what, what is the legacy? how is it continuing to be felt it you, scott, you're 2 is a, we see it all come go. all crushed, much known it with the kettle piece in or since and depend there's in that to 16 currently. we see what's good on in the eastern part of the country. i mean, all i mean, you dick, you dig a bit deep by you for that is all about control of quint gosh and vast,
doctorate resources. ok. and i believe that term, the actors and can go to day are mere promises to some external forces. who was a coupon control m m m m congress or resources. so the impact in all it's a romantic, it's untrue if i can for that is sam is, is sincere and use our approach to m m. coogel. he must go further. i mean, i talk to, i mean, government at all, we should do this and get you the original problem just to make sure that there is peace in, within the whole country. i mean, the issue can go, i'm just, i wish i was bloody or which one are going on or, or the other. sure work. that's what you need to do or what happened during the school near church. good, intermediate post independence bureau is so resurrected to do that for the so day.
oh, oh, fell clock. human rights watch has suggested that financial reparations from belgium, which would essentially be paid by the belgian taxpayer, would actually be balanced by the economic benefits that's moving, derived from colonialism on which belgium continues to thrive. how does belgium continue to thrive economically from its exploitation of, of democratic republic of congo and, and how could belgium take full responsibility? what could that look like? you only have to walk the streets of brussels to see the amount of, well, that belgium derived from congress from the end of the, from the colonial period onwards. and we're talking about the systematic transfer of enormous wealth from one african economy to, to a european economy. and this is left for the congolese studies are really in
a very impoverished position, really since the end of the colonial period. so that there's no question that belgium, others, congo, an enormous reparations package. and there's a global picture here as well. we're also seeing germany having to deal with the question of reparations to namibia for the herrera genocide. the british government has had to pay reparations to the victims of mal atrocities in kenya. this is what is speaking the belgian government at the moment. i know that there is a zeitgeist around reparations. what belgium is trying to do to certain extent is do and will piece meal response for atrocities in the past that that kind of commission of inquiry into atrocities are committed right across central africa. there is the repatriation of mosques and other artistic artifacts back to countries like the d r c i think is a whole on the part of the belgian or storage is that that will be enough to if we have this commission of inquiry and we send
a few objects back to congress that will draw, relying on the history. that's not the view in congo, that's not the view in the other building colonies in the region like rwanda and burundi. the view there is what we want to see something more tangible. we want to see something much more systematic, much more material, much more financial, and it needs to be on a scale that is comparable to the wealth that belgium stole from these countries in the 1st place, these kind of symbolic, these kind of cosmetic responses, simply one target jonathan, i found so i can see you shaking your head. there was something you want to to, to add. yes, i agree. i absolutely agree. why rick this up with what it is. if you look at say it. yeah. i mean, like i said, they are disputed at the return of the term artifact, say to whatever the also somebody needed to go further. i, we mentioned a weird creature to ship and at was o'clock mission their, their, their repairs internet in my media from gemini as well. so yes. bed. yeah. but
jumps economy literally was built on display of off by so under protection of the congo. so if the king has dim your right express regrets, but for the short of a little get that you my good is to fiddler and see how we can offer economic riches to ship to the country or the countries pleaded theta trip on no, i said that after colonialism ended in the i see it was about reconstituting the colonial space that belgium and france can you kind of talk me through that? oh, then 1st of all i'd like to clarify, i'd like to follow up on what my practice this is just menchie. and that is that we have to bear in mind that belgium today is one of the countries in the world with a very, very high growth rate, very high savings rate,
very high human development, convex congo, on the other hand, is usually pretty much on the bottom at the bottom of the battle. so there's a tremendous dispatch there. the. this fact however, needs to be nuanced by current dynamics in congos relations with other countries. belgium is a very, very small commercial partner of the d. c. today, compared to china in the south africa, lots of other partners have really taken the place of belgium in commercial exchanges. congo is an important part of the belgium belgian psyche. you know, if, if belgium's in important countries they associate that importance with the more that they had in this amazing, the rich and culture truly diverse country that many,
many belgians were familiar with. you know, every once or i'm american, i've lived in belgium for many years. i cannot go to any kind of event. when i meet someone, they said y'all and my uncle was to, congo. my father was administrator. and you know, there's a very, very deep social connection between belgium and collin, this is so the beginning of the response to your question about recall a nice space because after independence there was, there was a new scramble for territory in africa. no. ready really in, in a context of cold war politics where you had a really, really severe, looming crisis between the east in the west. the cuban missile crisis was m p l, a. in angola, your hands,
a marxist linen is to gene cluster from can chassis congress. so, you know, when it was a little crucible of how politics could be defined, and at the same time, belgium, badly needed to keep control primarily of the mining interests it had in catawba. and this is why there was the kind of succession. it was the assassination or the mysterious murder of you once again, your secretary, doug hamis, cold. so you know, there was a lot going on. and so belgium did have a very, very dubious role. here. of course, they were more agents of the american cia when it comes to movies, assassination, when it came to the congress a session. so, you know, belgium, i think, is very much an actor, but also very much a victim of the whole way that i had called what politics unfolded.
and they probably didn't think that carefully enough. and this is why we were country so many problems. now how to deal with belgium's colonial past, which is creating a lot of emotional, a lot of ideology in belgium today. you know, we've had a number of statues of keen vehicle removed from belgian cities. there's a big debate now about renaming students that were named after let's say, pretty much horrible people that responsible for all kinds of atrocities. so there's this debate, but then there's also quite a large segment of the belgian population that feels misrepresented because this law be, will say that well, in 1960 independence, the belgian congo had the same standard of living as canada in south africa. in
terms of hospital beds, in terms of primary education in terms of so this, the debate in belgium itself is very, very stratified. that form of belgian lobby of colonial administration is still critical. and they're probably loading the visitors. i just want to pick up on something that you said, theodore and, and pass that over to phil clark, belgian as a victim from, from cold war politics. i mean, i haven't heard that before. is that something that is kind of discussed in an academic circle when exploring the post colonial legacy? not typically, no, i mean why the belgium tends to be talked about in these devices is firstly in terms of its colonial legacy. so that precedes any of these cold war dynamics that
theodore is talking about, that, that, that's where the exploitation begins. that that's where the pillaging of kimberly's wells up begins. but then what we see is belgium continuing to middle in congo is politics even after the end of colonialism and, and i travel to congo regularly. i was just there 18 months ago. and the perspective amongst many congolese is that belgian influence negative influence in the country continues right up until the present in terms of very tight deals with mining companies, middle in political affairs, the mistreatment of the congo is diaspora living in belgium today. so really what we're talking about is i story all brought, i'm an equal relations between belgium and congress from the colonial period through the cold war, all the way up until the present and talking of i answer when we talk about reparations and, and sort of reckoning with colonial passed beyond the aussie we've been talking,
we mentioned the german government apologizing for the genocide in namibia. how does belgium compare to other former colonizing powers in its attempts to apologize to make reparations to, to grapple with it's with it's quite violent past. i can't give you the, in the, in progress example, but i know them use a cruiser to say, we took out to their mo, mo, in our practice in can i a, you to go am some or get the sentence and somebody said my been victims and osu de bridges go bench in or into high culture. i want. so even if the british nor did didn't turn directly apologize for the atrocities met out. but after the moment,
at least am the cold yet due to sherry in a low and a hot am of chocolate because im good. ok. so you do not have to and directly, maybe for the guys, but i am, there are other means in or a political buquet, you know, but if you do apologize, you need to follow up, right? i think it will need to be in all and i will be that mission of guilt. so do follow up with some sort of a recompense, richer composition, and that kind of thing to m dot away. i see that you should be all federal tough on where we're nearing the end of the program. we've got a minute or so left, but i just want to ask you, is there a shift in the way that form a colonial powers are approaching this reckoning with their pastor, approaching how to take responsibility to take accountability. that's an important question, but i would also our 1st like to like to clarify that everything about this debate,
about belgian relations with congo. when you notice of approximately 1550 percent of the conference population is 16 or 17 years old or younger. so that the vast majority of, on the lease a very, very far removed from these high level political discussion about diplomatic restitution in apology to let you know, these are people that live in the fend for yourself. economy a live from hand to mouth on a day to day basis. and they probably really not bad, very concerned about what our, what king philip is going to say in parliament. these are people that are struggling to feed themselves to feed their families. and it's true, their congo has been victimized over many, many years. but this is not,
this is not an excuse for our really weakness in the whole panoply development initiatives that is both organizing, orchestrated by congos international partners and by cleavages within the congolese elite themselves that are very, very, very, very clever at keeping society them stratified. so to place blame strictly on one actor, i think would be really doing a disservice to the debate. it's a shared responsibility. thank you very much. to all our guests, jonathan offer answer, theodore telephone and phil clark. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. i'll just their adult calm and further discussion. go to our facebook page. that is facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a date inside story for me can vanelle and the whole team here in bo huh. or bye
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