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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  June 14, 2022 2:30pm-3:01pm AST

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but unless there is a break to the strike by the well organized indigenous confederation with the support of other trade unions could present the most serious challenge to ecuador stability. to seeing, you mean al jazeera, the world food program says that it has to cut some food aid to south sudan because it doesn't have enough funds. the u. n. body is launched, a humanitarian appeal, saying that it needs $426000000.00 in aid for the next 6 months in order to avoid the risk of salvation. for some 1700000 people, the well to youngest country has struggled with conflict and famine. since it split from saddam, a video has captured the moment that a house fell into the yellowstone river. in the u. s. state of montana. the area has suffered unprecedented flooding and rock slides which forced many people from their homes. yellowstone national park, as close to the public as an investigation is carried out. that is, ah,
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it's good to be with us. hello, adrian. sort of going here in though how the headlines and al jazeera for testers in new delhi, abt announced the demolition of homes owned by muslims. government officials say that the buildings have been constructed illegally, but rights groups say that it's part of an attempt to intimidate muslims. a court in cambodia has convicted a prominent lawyer of treason. terry sang faces up to 12 years in prison. the cambodian american lawyer was charged in connection with the failed attempt by opposition figure sam rain seats returned from exile in 2019 more than 50 members of rain ceased now dissolved party were also convicted. they've denied all charges . the u. k. supreme court has confirmed that the 1st flight of migrants to wander can go ahead on tuesday, but only 7 people will be on board after a series of legal challenges that you case parameters devoris. johnson has defended the policy at a cabinet meeting. we are going to get on and, and deliver,
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and the objective, the objective is to ensure that we make that clear distinction that i think everybody can see is fair and reasonable between legal immigration to this country, by safe and legal roots, which we support that uphold and protect because we will understand the benefits that it brings. a secondary volatility is affecting global stock market, south to wall street and, and what is known as bare territory. that's when markets for more than 20 percent from a recent high investors are worried about another interest rate hike and a possible recession. in the u. s. the world's largest economy. russia has destroyed the last bridge out of savannah. don't ask the city of the heart of the battle to ukraine's don bass region. it was one of 3 bridges leading out of the city. ah, police of arrested, the leader of ecuador was made indigenous peoples movements on the 1st day of a nationwide strike. police use tear gas and stun grenades to disperse union
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members who are taking part in march and the capital quito. the world food program says it has to cut some food a to south sudan because it doesn't have enough funds. the u. n. body has launched a humanitarian appeal, saying that he needs $426000000.00 for the next 6 months. and those, the headlines that he's continues here on al jazeera, after inside story coming up next generations. this indigenous community has lived off of what the rain forest provides. but when they discovered that their territory was being invaded by gold mining projects all along their river, the community brought a lawsuit against a po to us government. you've won, you want the unprecedented ruling obliges the state to consult communities over oil and mining projects that impact their land and to seek their consent. the tiny, seemingly community has won a huge battle,
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letting me know necessarily have the last word. since the court ruling does leave room for exceptions in the name of overriding national interests, renewed fighting between the d r. c army and the m 23 movement. and rwanda is accused of backing the rebels. what's behind this round of conflict and could escalate into a full blown war between the 2 names. this is inside stored. ah . hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammer, jim jerome, more than 25 years after the 1st congo war, the democratic republic of congo, and were wanda, are once again engaged in dispute. the central african neighbors have accused each other of firing rockets across their shared border, including a strike that killed 2 congo least children. this seems to have been triggered by
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fighting between the m 23 rebel group and state forces in the east. both congo and the united nations have accused were wanda of supporting the m $23.00 movement. the u. n. has urged all parties to immediately cease all forms of violence. the region doesn't need a new crisis. let's keep the channels of dialogue open at all levels, including at the community level and help preserve the progress achieve in the recent years. thanks to the various cooperation mechanisms. the march 23rd movement or m $23.00 is also known as the congo leaves revolutionary army. it's a rebel military group based and eastern areas of the democratic republic of congo, mainly in the province of north keybo. its leadership is made up of members of the tootsie ethnic group. they say their aim is to fight enemy groups founded by hutus, who federal wanda, after the 1994 genocide. the rebels merged with the congo. these army under a peace deal signed on march 23rd,
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2009. but in 2012 they said the deal had not been upheld and broke away. naming their group the march 23rd movement. the. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests. in accra, compiling was heavily as a researcher at the center for research on the congo kinshasa in kigali, needing about whom lisa is a political commentator in til berg the netherlands felix, near the hinder, is a researcher focusing on conflict, peace and justice in the great lakes region, a warm welcome to you all, and thank you so much for joining us today on inside story kamali. let me start with you today. what's behind this new round of violence? i saw taylor will be on that for almost 6 long. now there have been an uprising of the m $23.00 in the east by the not the only munition group activity in the east. so it's very hard to know. we do know that they have been distinguished and taking
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place in a row be we've many munition groups in the d r c to come up with some resolution for piece of stability for the east, something organized but a president, kenya. and during this period, for some strange reasons, the m $23.00 has started a campaign to attack un peacekeepers and also the communities forces in specific areas. and that has continued. and we've noticed that many to military power has increased tremendously by having power to attack at night by having weapons that you have before, which has caused the quality of government to states. and there is stuff that support of our congress neighbors particular run that to them $23.00. so as i can say, i can say no, i don't really know why the tax has taken place at this present time, but it is a destabilizing force. at the moment. i can probably, if i could just follow up with you,
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you mentioned that there are talks or negotiations going on between different groups right now. first of all, how many groups are we talking about in secondly, any indications on how those top are going. i mean, those are the militia groups. some numbers take it up to a 100 minister group there, but you have to understand even would, that actually means a group may have 20 rebels, the force archipello get territory, and they are called the federal rebel group. by the way, to look at the. ready groups in the eastern part of congo is that you have groups that are supported by comb with neighbors, particularly run them uganda. and you do have local rebels was either protecting the territorial and directing into illicit trailer minerals. but the essence of that is not suspension. 96 has no, not the stability. mainly because of the interference of each member is run than the uganda continues explicitly to support the rubber groups in the east coast of
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the of the can. well yes, i can see they by the 100 of them, but the governing much, why didn't they go shooting was just joined the. ready east africa community, the seem to be a political will and the part of kenya to see how can we can be stabilized, maybe to bring about the potential of the congo for the africa community. and as i said, now you're in narrow b, they've been really, really pushing hard to our business, but realty, and the negotiation as being for rub groups to put down their arms to be at the grid in the society are in the military. and yes and concluded longboarding at the moment, gets it to, i want to ask you about how you see things from your vantage point there. in kigali, why our attention is escalating. now. those rooms you got any people right and confused by 2 things to do differently. what i'm 23 re
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much to i talked to the at the, the, or the, the me being one that just can, you know, people will not be limited for just an opinion, but they need, they're not being uganda for 5 years. and 5 years, 5 years in a big growth and come to into the without being that fact. so everybody was aware of the big m 23 in what for what i did. now when they did run the, what's the price point? seeing that the running said that they will do that means they must be there must be supported by rhonda. i think that was one of the big anthony. but what do you often do not make
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a good sense because people can't rhonda india and run them and they're going to be one of the things that they're demanding is the country. and so every time they talk and because we run back to look like one, the people who did that when they and so that it says that positions were followed by a measure we had there now land one there that was meant that was was license was suspended for ambassador was someone's to be to, to receive letter. and so that was in itself and it wasn't great, but it was already, it was okay with that. because the, you know, french should be something your for style when he was working broke. but the
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problem is that ordering these sightings now the, the, as he has been shaming rwandan territory and theater is of kaniggy, which is the cause of the idea, the anti sing. now in general, and then we'll follow the of the rwandan country, which is a very small country desk booklet in a book that falls under run into too much more diversity done. you know, then say things that have been almost 6 years we suddenly fix and can just, or just one of kilometer from, from the where they are. so rather is not like school rather his junior vulnerable to any of the day because he didn't do otherwise. surely when it's petition, can you use the place where we have to get it? i'm sorry, i'm sorry to interrupt you, let me get back to that point. you're making just a couple of minutes of felix. i want to ask you about your opinion on on. if all
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this tension that is escalating right now could actually spill over into a full blown war between the neighbors and, and how big a fear is there right now of escalation. and what would that mean for the region i live out is my reading of the situation is that there are serious spears that this kind of skeleton to represent a world given the nature or for example, that if the accusations are going from different sides on the given day that the dynamics of the narrative and special so that it kind of the flames that i needed knitting that the media, particularly social media and sports politicians reacting also towards all of that . oh, i think the that the threat is realistic. i mean, no, no, not with the fighting. and when i got out order parts are occupied by the m. 23. anything can happen from there. i'm with of course, my understanding now from what i can read on social media subject verifications,
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a lot of comedies, sort of just having crossed again with all needed caveats into uganda. hello can help him out. but one would really hope that sir, all actors of good will from the regional, i was like a non so on and international. interveners probably need to do something to avoid that ex escalation. rather than that, it looks like we are quite in a dentist. they're starting to get a t a. the african union is launched efforts to try and mediate this crisis between kinshasa and k golly. haven't had any progress been made? well, no, not really unfortunate enough progress has been made because the negotiations have to be based on facts and evidence. and we have what we call an extended joint verification mechanism that has been losing impose the deity that not to believe. i mean, for example, if yes, these adamant that one day supporting him, 23,
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in spite of any independently verifiable facts they use, you know, they have a shift on even if he's a vision about that means they're disciplined by rhonda. but did drink verification mechanism? i thought established that so and it was usually go to school because with intellectually comes from rhonda, you gonna have to confirm that intimacy actually come from uganda, but it, but yes, you would busy that it comes from rhonda, even though this know if there's that. there's that the internal putting people dynamics of the d s. c. that makes it easy to point fingers to wonder, which has nothing to do with that. it's going to leave internal affairs, which then makes it difficult for the call. what is government to do? own is the open negotiations because they have to freeze their own internal principal pressure. and so, and get it a, i mean if you're saying that there is a mechanism, but it sounds to me like you're also saying that that mechanism really can't
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function it in an appropriate way. right now, i mean, 1st of all, let me ask you, what are rwanda's immediate concerns and how then can things actually start being de escalated. though the mechanism actually comes, schools will function very well under the bottom edge of the international commission for the graphics region. we have make it more than 10 countries, they fracture they do provide reports or a frequent basis. in fact, what they're saying right now is that yes, the d s. e 's, shading ones in the run and the 3, none of these international independent mechanisms are saying that the one that is supporting diaz, which is why there's no country in the world that is condemning rwanda was a putting him to the people simply because there's like there's of such, such allegation on his ears is making that image. now, how can he get b, b, s, got it one, it can be escalated even the as he is capable of dealing with internal problems by
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negotiating with his own devereux groups. that in my opinion, there will be able to defeat military, but that's an internal d. as each number 2, we are worried about 2 things. that's random. one, they won't run that repeatedly. when it won't kaniggy you are wanting to home to mountain guerrillas. this is critical to us because what is you existed? percent of our national inca when he won't be silly, you won't be a very dizzy populated region. we. the focused on population is very dangerous for us. we cannot, that's number 2, number 3, and the last point that worries of a match. now the government army of the yeah, you have to be on the bottom. you put that in which is the of the,
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of the aggression of run that for my people go to the general say who now they are when i'm braking national, i'm going to say the need to now they do things appointed by the want to go, which is a you in for now, imagine anyone for that is called the generals. they've been treated on a daily basis and the become something that it can bother you her get to bring up the role that the you in is playing. and i want to ask you about that. i mean, the you in is now urging all parties involved in the growing tension between kinshasa and gali to immediately cease all forms of violence in these border regions between wanda and d. r. c. from your perspective, are there immediate steps that can be taken to ease the tensions and is the you in, in any way effective in all this of 1st we have to break a correction. they have been countries and sufficient, but
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a have actually put pressure wrong to stop supporting rebel interfering. even the last coming from the secretary general spokesperson, i clearly stated, indirectly, stated that outside forces number of countries will stop supporting the m 23. you may not be explicitly saying run that, but we know what that refers to when he says upsides, i mean the initial has done so specific for the united nation. the united nation depends that you're not in the shop, just keeping forces. they depend on the un security council, particularly the political will of the counsel to and the crisis in a coma for the past 25 years. we have seen numerous times that the political will, as last one will, i asked why know will, is pretty very clearly to missions in the security council was playing cover for
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and specifically the united states and the united kingdom. i mean, some of you may know the run days about to receive over the $50000000.00 for receiving refugees from the u. k. so that you can see everything to do with making sure that if l i on the african continent, that love is not held into account, same for the united states a can quickly, but we bring about peace and co go. i think we must be very genuine, even honest, where we have this discussion about the r c because we speaking about it as the m 23 or before. that's just a peer meeting going off for 25 years. when you're talking about the m $23.00, it's connected to the c and p. when you're talking about the c, d p is connected to the our city. where you are talking to the, our city is connected to the f d f. so i'm just throw some acronyms there. what are these names? those are the rebel group that exist in the core suspension. that is 6. how do i
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know that the leader of the so called m 23? so tiny, my king who has a rest war and from what his government was not above it, travels in uganda all the time. also, anthony, 3 rebels, we've arrest why it's one living in one and they have not be extra added to the r c . they are all have been implicated in the washing the car, the have taken the lives of millions and even lately the person spoke before me. i mentioned there was a shelling of you, sidney and kimmy mcgee, was program that was for the actually see if felt to say that just yesterday there was a bomb being of a school in the d. r. c by the run military. that shell the bomb, a school where a 6 year old and a 7 year old is bye. so for piece of stability to take up to come into the region.
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the honest, why do we have corporate is very simple. is that this w social or the, or seem to get control of congress? welf, using proxy rubber militias. in this case, you're discussing them 23, felix, you know, you heard. kimberly, there are talk about the stabilisation. so i want to ask you, i mean, is the international community doing enough to try to put pressure when it comes to the situation and, and are we going to see the international community step in to help the escalade things? i mean, i can always look on probably think that there will be some kind of background channels and a lot of talks and a lot of it, let's say dramatic kind of activity around trying to find a solution i list are the interest level under is not to the original, it means change has been very much present in the dossier i would expect not reluctance on yonder and under and so on to be able to, to be very much involved in trying to find a solution that that being said,
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i guess we'll never have the final, let say, lasting solution on this, we really tried to look at the depth of what are the issues are, are they will by failure, caballo ready? just talked about to the, you know, the acronyms on by rochester to the different movements. but we need to look at the phenomenon of m, m 23 as part of the bigger candle of problem with it. and yes is our security on and presence say we're in is santiago in on the incidence on the, on the white a region. and we have to look at the history and the, the tone of unresolved issues on these need to be broken down at different levels as well. there are issues which are at a very local level in north cable, specifically and in soft people, specifically, for example. now we are thinking only about intrinsic speech. but last year we had close enough to the same level of kids and debate about the hope that'll self give will wither. with fighting, still very much on going there. so in saki was,
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when we have quite a lot of local unresolved issues on these tend to have quite a big residence at the national level, against weekly speaking, within the communities that landscape. and you're talking about issues of identity, ethnicity, citizenship, control of lawns and issues. of power, including representative within our coding at the local level for it is and so on. part of the legacy of the belgian colonial systems in arizona already in the congo which successive post colonial administration have never really lived up to a reckoning with. or at least are organized as should be in order to reflect madana, him thinking we need to look at that indeed at the regional level. so low call, national, personal regional pointing that out. many of those problems. for example, when you're talking about that a they, they, they identity issues. when he rings most of the narrative,
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you have not iran infant, it's great. on social media, least even wanted to stick to that space. m 23 doesn't exist. it's nothing but a cover for rhonda. in fact there is no such a thing. i want to find everything about 11. 23 is rhonda, and i think that's is a very dangerous requisite to take that issue. maybe that need to be investigated around where m t m t, it's $800.00 it's thrive. is it supported or not? i think that's the work for all of those rental verification mechanisms. i'm sure that in the coming a months and years where it gets you and reports on that. we have this funk philip as a face. i could, i'm sorry, i wrote but, but if i could, if i could follow up with you about a point that you're making there, i mean, you have a situation here. we're both d, r c and or wander are accusing each other of supporting arm groups and, and even of launching cross border attacks. you know, we come back to this to, to this question of, are there actual mechanisms that exist that are able to investigate these claims and, and how are the facts established?
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we have, i mean for many or not, we have hot un group of experts on, on the g r c. that is meant always to investigate what happens in the, out of the country every time out. he has produced tons of reports and so on, on what goes on. but i mean ripley, documenting is one thing. coming with options that are meant to resolve problems that i had in spite is another thing. and most of the time auction lacks, when it comes to resolving in a lossy way, some of the issues that i did, but i did different levels i was talking about. i keep insisting that are local issues that are domestic. you something that yes, there are regional issues aren't international, didn't talk about our international when he's talking about, for example, i mean, always and so on. i'm sure that there are region interest in the commercial interests between the younger neighbors. but also the international, probably even more impacts for international links. so all of those need to be
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tackled to i'm, if you talk to one of those and you don't address the others, you can only postpone the problem, but you will be there. i mean, i will, we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guests come by a most heavily get in being a ball room elisa and felix in dianda and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is at ha, inside story from him. how much? i'm sure i'm the whole team here and uh huh. bye for now. know scientists and, and change because some people live in
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a post that is bigger than that. i always make them a little over my city around the state representative. they put themselves on state to make the changes. some that we've done collectively has learned. it said i've taken this long a. we have of this culture to flush and born to create new areas. we have to change to sculpture. i'm one of the fortunate ones. who can me understand just my thoughts outside, but all the people and on that majority these illegal m, as we're talking about as good, hardworking people that want to live the american dream, like our ancestors. these were hands or refugees are terrified that they may be forced to return to me and more. ah,
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