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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  June 21, 2022 8:30pm-9:01pm AST

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secretary of state's office, this is sterling was the state wire boating systems implementation manager for the 2020 election in georgia. responsible for leading the secretary of state's response to the cove at pandemic, and rolling out modernized boating equipment. i will swear in our witnesses, the witnesses will please stand and raise their right hand. do you swear i'm for a form on the pillow. the appraiser that the testimony you about to give is a truth. oh truth and nothing but the truth. so help you, god. thank you. please be seated at a record reflect that the witness is answered in the affirmative. speak. bowers, thank you for being with us to day you had a speaker, the arizona house and a self describe conservative republican. you campaign for president trump and with
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him during the 2020 election? is it fair to say that you wanted donald trump to win a 2nd term in office? please? yes, sir. thank you. any of it? your understanding that president biden was the winner of the popular vote in arizona in 2020. yes, sir. thank you. but so it affects him 5 c 8 of house resolution 503. the chair recognizes the gentleman from california with the ship for questions . speak a bowers. thank you for being with us today. before we begin with the questions that i have prepared for you, i want to ask you about a statement that former president trump issued out which i received just prior to the hearing. i have you had a chance to review that statement. i my counsel called from arizona and read it to me. yes sir. in that statement i will read it in its entirety of former president.
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trump begins, i call you a rhino republican, the name only. he then references a conversation in november 2020 in which he claims that you told him that the election was rigged and that he had won arizona. but to quote, to the former president, during the conversation, he told me the election was rigged and that i won arizona, unquote. did you have such a conversation with the president? i didn't have a conversation with the president. i'm. that certainly isn't it. that there were parts of it that are true, but her parts that are not, sir, i and the part that i read you, is that false? anywhere anyone any time has said that i said the election was rigged. that would not be true. and when the, the former president,
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in his statement today claimed that you told him that he one arizona is that also false? that is also false. mr. bowers, i understand that after the election and i don't know whether this is the conversation. the former president is referring to, but after the election, you received a phone call from president trump and rudy giuliani, in which they discussed the result of the presidential election in arizona. if he would tell us about that call i and whether the former president or mr. juliani raised allegations of election fraud. thank you. i my wife and i had returned from attending our church meetings. it was on a sunday and we were still in the driveway and i had received a call from a colleague telling me that the white house was trying to get in touch with her. and i. and that she said, please, if you get a call, let's try to take this together. immediately. i saw that the white house on my
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bluetooth was calling and i took the call and was asked by the i would presume the operator at the white house. if i would hold for the president, which i did, and he, mister juliani, came on 1st and niceties. then mr. trump, president trump, then president trump came on and we initiated a conversation. and during that conversation, did i, you will ask mr. john juliani, for proof of these allegations of fraud that he was making on multiple occasions. yes. and when you asked him for, for evidence of this rug, what did he say? he said that they did have proof and i asked him, do you have names? for example, you have 200000 illegal immigrants, some large number of 5 or 6000 dead people, et cetera. and i said, do you have their names? yes. will you give them to me?
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yes. the president interrupted and said give the man what he needs booty. he said i will not happen on at least 2 occasions that interchange in the conversation. so mister giuliani was claiming the call that there were hundreds of thousands of undocumented people and thousands of dead people who had purportedly voted in the election. yes, i and you asked him for evidence of that i did. and did he ever receive? did you ever receive from him that evidence either during the call after the call or to this day? never? what was the asked during this call? he was making his allegations of fraud, but he had something or a couple of things that they wanted you to do. what were those, the ones i remember were 1st the that we would hold, that i would allow an official committee at the capital so that they could hear
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this evidence and that we could take action thereafter. and, and i refused. i said, up to that time the, the circus i called a circus, had been brewing with lots of demonstrations, both at the counting center at the capital and other places. and i didn't want to have that in the house. i did not feel that the evans granted in its absence, merited a hearing, and i didn't want to be used as a pon or if there was some other need that the, that the committee hearing would fulfill. i'm. so that was the 1st ask that we have hold an official committee hearing. and what was his 2nd ask? i said to what end? to what end the hearing. you said, well, we have heard by an official high up in the republican
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a legislature that there is a legal theory or a legal ability in arizona that you can remove the the electors of president biden and replace them. and we would, we would like to have the legitimate opportunity through the committee to come to that end and, and remove that. and i said that, that survive. that's totally new to me. i've never heard of any such thing. and he pressed that point. and i said, look, you are asking me to do something that is counter to my oath when i swore to the constitution to uphold it. and i also swore to the constitution and the laws of the state of arizona. and this is totally foreign as a, an idea or a theory to me. and i would never do anything of such
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magnitude without deep consultation with qualified attorneys. and i said, i've got some good attorneys, and i'm going to give you their names of but you're asking me to do something against my oath and i will not break my oath. and i think that was up to that point during the conversation. no. and you heard, i think we played a snippet of mr. giuliani calling other state legislators and saying they was calling us essentially a fellow republican. did he make a similar appeal to you or bring up the fact that you shared a similar party, whether it was in that call ran a later meeting. i he did bring that up more than once. and how, how would he bring that up? he would say, aren't we all republicans here? i, i would think we would get a better reception. i mean, i would think you would listen little more open to my suggestions that were all republicans and this, this evidence that you asked him for that would justify this extraordinary step. i
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think you said they never produced. why did you feel, either in the absence of that evidence or with it, what they were asking you to do would violate your oath to the constitution. first of all, when the people in arizona, i believe is some 40 plus years earlier, the legislature had established the manner of electing our officials or the electors for the presidential race once it was given to the people. as in bush v, gore, illustrated by the supreme court, that becomes a fundamental right of the people. so as far as i was concerned for someone to ask me in the, i would call it a positive, there was no, no evidence being presented of any strength. evidence can be hearsay, evidence, it's still evidence, but it's still here say, but strong,
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judicial quality evidence, anything that would say to me, you have a doubt, deny your oath. i will not do that. and on more than on more than one occasion throughout all this that has been brought up and it is a tenant of my faith that the constitution is divinely inspired. of my most basic foundational beliefs. and so for me to do that because somebody just asked me to is foreign to my very being, i will not do it during that conversation. speaker bowers:
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did you ask him if what he was proposing had ever been done before? i did it. and what did he say said, well, i'm not familiar with arizona law or any of the laws, but i i don't, i don't think so. and that also was brought up in other conversations with, with him and with john eastman and others. bowers. i understand that a week after that call, mr. giuliani appeared with others associated with present trumps effort to overturn result of the election at a purported legislative hearing in a hotel ballroom in phoenix. was this an official hearing of the state legislature? it was not. and why was it not a real or official hearing of the legislature? a legislator can hold a group meeting, you can call the hearing. but when they asked me to have an official hearing, we establish it by protocols, public, notice, et cetera. it's typically held at the capital,
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but doesn't need to be we can authorize a hearing off campus. and in this case, i had been asked on several occasions to allow hearing. i had denied it, but said you're free to hold a meeting any meeting you want to the person who asked and which he ultimately did think he was a little frustrated. but he alternately did this. so this meeting was the same day . i believe that the governor of arizona doug, do see certified biden as the winner of the presidential election in arizona. did you meet with mr. giuliani and his associates while they were in phoenix? sometime after that purported legislative hearing at the hotel? yes, i did, sir. and at that meeting, did mister juliani raise any specific allegations of election fraud again? and his initial comments were again the litany of groups of illegal individuals or people, deceased,
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et cetera. and he had brought that up and i wasn't alone in that meeting. there others and other members of the senate aggressively questioned him. and then i proceeded to question him on the proof that he was going to bring me, etc. and he did bring those up. yes. and these other legislatures legislators were also republican members of the senate. they were yes sir. and did they also press him for proof of these allegations? they pressed him very strongly. 2 of them especially very strongly. and at some point, did mister giuliani ask one of the other attorneys on his team to help him out with the evidence he did. he asked jenny alice, who was sitting to his right of one thing was that it was more to the point of, was there sufficient evidence or action that we could justify the recalling of the
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electors. but at that part of the conversation, i know he referred to someone else, but he did ask, do we have the proof to jenna miss ellis? and she said yes. and i said, i want the names, you have the names? yes. do you have how they voted? we have all the information said, can you get to me that information? did you bring it with you? just? she said no. both mister juliani asked her, and i asked generally if they brought it with them, she said no, it's not with me, but we can get it to you. and i said, then you didn't bring me the evidence, which was repeated can different iterations for some period time. at some point today, one of them make a comment that they didn't have evidence for that. a lot of theories that was mr. juliani. and what exactly did he say and how that came up? my recollection, he said,
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we've got lots of theories. we just don't have the evidence. and i don't know if that was a gaffe or maybe he didn't think through what he said, but both myself and others in my group, the 3 in my group and my, my counsel both remembered that specifically. and afterwards we kinda laughed about it. i and, you know, getting back to the ask and that phone call that preceded this meeting, and he wanted you to have the legislature dismiss biden electors and replace them with trump electors on the basis of these theories of from i did. he did not say in those exact words, but he did say that he, that arizona law according to what he understood that that would be allowed and that we needed to come into session to take care of that which initiated a discussion about again what i can legally and not legally do, and i can't go into session in arizona, unilaterally or on my soul prerogative, this meeting or any of the lead time,
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did any one provide you with evidence of election fraud sufficient to affect the outcome of the presidential election in arizona? no one provided me ever such evidence. the slip committee has uncovered evidence in the course of our investigation that had stopped the still protests at state capitals across the country. there were individuals with ties to the groups of parties involved in the january 6th attack on the u. s. capital. one of those incursions took place in the arizona house of representatives building. as you can see in this footage, this is previously undisclosed. video of protesters illegally entering and refusing to leave the building. one of the individuals prominently shown in this video is jacob, translate perhaps better known as the queue and on showman. this writer entered the capital in january 6, was photographed leaving
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a threatening note on the dias in the u. s. and a chamber, and was ultimately sentenced to 41 months in prison. after pleading guilty to obstruction of an official proceeding. other protesters who occupied the arizona house of representatives building included, included proud boys, while men armed with rifles stood just outside the entrance. i understand these protestors were calling for you by name. speaker bowers, is that correct? that is correct. speaker bowers to the president. call you again in late later in december. he did, sir. did you tell the president in that 2nd call that you supported him, that you voted for him, but that you were not going to do anything illegal for him? i did, sir. nevertheless his lawyer, john eastman, called you some days later on june 4th, 202021. and he didn't have a very specific ask that would have required you to do just what you had already told the president, you wouldn't do something that would violate your oath. is that correct?
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that's correct. it wasn't just me. i had my counsel and others on the, on the, on the call. and what it dr. eastman, want you to do that we would in fact vote take a vote to overthrow or i shouldn't say overthrow that we would decertify the electors. and that, that because we had plenary authority to do so and he cited article to section one, i think it's close to and said that in his opinion that gave us the authority if there was i don't recall him saying sufficient evidence, but there was some call or some strong reason to do so that we or justification to do so that we could do that. and that he was asking that we, he says suggestion was that we would do it. and i said again,
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i took an oath for me to take that to do what you do would would be counter to my oath. i don't recall if it was in that conversation clearly that we talked more about the oath, but i said, what would you have me do? and he said, just do it and let the court sorted out. and i said, you are asking me to do something that's never been done in history, the history of the united states. and i'm going to put my state through that without sufficient proof. and that's going to be good enough with me that i would, i would put us through that my state that i swore to uphold both in constitution and in law. no, sir. he said,
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well that's my suggestion would be just just do it and let the course figured all out and i didn't use that exact phrase, but that was what he his meaning was and i so i declined and i believe that was close to the end of our phone call. and again, this took place after you had recently spoken with president trump and told him that she wouldn't do anything illegal for him. is that right? it wasn't days after obviously was days after, but a few days a gone by. but you had told president trump, you would not do anything illegal for him. i did of times and you told dr. eastman that you did not believe there was legal support to justify what he was asking, but he still wanted you to do it and effectively let the courts work it out. i've been warned. don't say things you think maybe he said, but i do remember him saying that the authority of the legislature was plenary and
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that you can do it. i said, then you should know that i can't even call the legislature into session without of 2 thirds majority vote were only 30 plus one i. there's no way that could happen. but in your view, what he was asking you to do would have violated your oath to the constitution. both the united states constitution and the constitution of the state of arizona. yes sir. did you also receive a call from us representative andy biggs of arizona on the morning of january 6? i did. and what did mister bigs ask you to do? i believe that was the day that the, the vote was occurring to each state to have certification or to declare the certification of the electors. and he asked if i would sign on both to a letter that had been sent from my state and or that i would support the
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decertification of the electors. and i said, i would not speak her on december 4th, 2020. shortly after you're meeting with rudy. giuliani and other allies of president trump. you released a statement publicly addressing quote, calls for the legislature to overturn the 2020 certified election results. the statement is very straightforward and explaining the quote, breathtaking request, unquote made by representatives of president trump. quote that the arizona legislature overturned the certified results of last month's election and deliver the state's electoral college votes to president trump, unquote. why did you believe, as you wrote in this statement, that the rule of law forbid you from doing what president trump and his allies wanted you to do? representative. i'm sorry, i should be saying, mr. chairman, i represent a shift the there's 2 sides to the answer. one is,
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what am i allowed to do? and what am i forbidden to do? we have no legal pathway, both in state law nor to my knowledge in federal law for us to execute such a request. and i am not allowed to walk or act beyond my authority if i'm not specifically authorized as a legislator, as a less legislature than i cannot act to the point of calling us in the session. some say that just a few legislators have plenary out authority. and that is, come, is part of all of this discussion. i'll call it but so to not have authority and beef forbidden to act beyond my authority on both counts. i am not authorized to
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take such action and that would deny my oath. in her statement, you included excerpts from present ronald reagan's inaugural address in 1091. the newly inaugurated present, told the country, quote, the orderly transfer of authority is called for in the constitution. routinely takes place as is, as it has for almost 2 centuries. and few of us stop to think how unique we really are in the eyes of many in the world, this every 4 year ceremony we accept as normal is nothing less than a miracle. tell us if you had mister speaker, why did you include present reagan's words in your public statement? mister chairman represent shift because i have a lot of admiration for ronald reagan. i had the opportunity going through his home with one other person walking through and
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i have a lot of admiration for him. when he pointed out, which is up. i have lived in other country for a period of time and have visited a few countries. and during election times, the fact that we allow an election support and election and stand behind the election even in the past when there have been serious questions about the election. and then move on without disturbance. and with acceptance that we choose we choose to follow the outcome of the will of the people that will it means a lot to me and i know it met a lot to him and so i,
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we included thank you. speaker bowers. and i want to look even more deeply at the fake electors scheme every 4 years, citizens from all over the united states go to the polls to elect the president under our constitution. when we cast our votes for president, we are actually voting to send electors pledged to our preferred candidate to the electoral college. in december, the electors in each state meet cast their votes, and send those votes to washington. there was only one legitimate slate of electors from each state. on the 6th day of january, congress meets and a joint session to count those votes, and the winner of the electoral college vote becomes the president. in his next segment, you'll hear how president trump in his campaign were directly involved and advancing
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and coordinating the plot to replace legitimate biden electors with fake. electra is not chosen by the voters. you'll hear how this campaign convinced these fake electors to cast and submit their votes through fake certificates, telling them that their votes would only be used. in the event, the president trump won his legal challenges. yet when the president lost those legal challenges, when courts rejected them as frivolous and without merit a fe connector scheme, we didn't, you are going to leave his bats. at that point, the u. s. house committee, though, called examining the events leading up the riots for capitol hill on january 6th, 2021 councils are hearing today from state election. officials who say they were personally pressured by a former president of donald trump to overturn the results of the 2020 election. they're an hour early on in that hearing. we have some, some bad language from the former attorney at the us attorney general. or we have no warning of that, it was a recorded section. we apologize for any offense that may have caused. we'll be
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back with, but more news in just a few moments here. officer stevenson ah and during the colonization of africa, thousands of artifacts were removed by the major european powers. so double that the french occupation gradually removed a lot of works. a new 3 part series tells the story of the struggle by african countries to we claim that price heritage. but it didn't happen overnight. we were robbed over time restitution. africa stolen out,
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coming soon on out jazeera against a backdrop of syrian independence comes the story of military coups regime change and insurgency. al jazeera well explored the life of id boucher shockley. achieving his ambition to be syrian president in 1953 without maneuvered by his rivals and struck by the assassin's bullet. al shockly serious master of coons. oh, now to sierra. ah, holding the powerful to account. as we examined the ulysses ro in the world on al jazeera salam, while i come, it's great to see welcome to the cottage economic forum powered by bloom bad. some people say that they say the globalization will blame them, but that reflects a thing called every globalization,
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our accomplish speakers from heads of state to business and policy leaders will discuss evolving technology, education, culture, sustainability, and the impact on the economy. ah, ah, this is al jazeera ah hello, i'm adrian finnegan. this is that he is alive from doha, coming out for the next 60 minutes. a pressure campaign to undermine democracy, u. s. election. officials speak about postal attacks and intimidation. a subtle trump at his age tried to overturn the 2020 presidential election, a new flash point between washer and the ear. moscow warms lithuania of severe consequences for banning the transit of sanctioned goods to.

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