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tv   The Stream  Al Jazeera  June 21, 2022 10:30pm-11:01pm AST

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in wida, now the government plans to increase the technical reliability and stability of the new re rocket through 4 more launchers by 2027. this launch has further accelerated the pace of rocket development on the korean peninsula. north korea says it launched its 1st satellite years ago. many analysts believe that was just to cover the development of its long range ballistic missiles. robert bride al jazeera go home, south korea ah, are much up stories on how to 0. state officials have told the u. s. congress that they were personally pressured by then president donald trump. to overturn the result of the 2020 election. i testified to the house committee investigations 4th hearing into last year's capitol hill. riot. arizona's house speaker says trump pushed for his team to be allowed into the state capitol to present what they
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called evidence of voter fraud. that he refused. up to that time the, the circus i called with the circus, had been brewing with lots of demonstrations, both at the counting center at the capital and other places. and i didn't want to have that in the house. i did not feel that the evans granted in its absence, merited a hearing and i didn't want to be used as a pon, idaho, castro has more on the test made from capitol hill. we're seeing these republican state election officials, i described the many times that they were called, they said at our all hours of the night by president trump's aids pressuring them sometimes by president trump, himself, up pressuring them to either decertify their state election result. they had gone to joe biden or to open investigations into
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a quote unquote voter fraud when there was no evidence of it. ministers in israel's outgoing government to avow to prevent a comeback by former prime minister benjamin netanyahu. the former is religious, as his conservatively could party, will lead the next government current. prime minister, natalie bennett's fragile coalition announced on monday, but parliament would be dissolved, which means israel can expect its 5th election in less than 4 years from russia says it will retaliate after lithuania stopped transit of some goods to kellen. in grad, the russian exclaim, is separated from the mainland and lies between lithuania and poland. if you any has defended the ban, saying it only applies to some goods on the e. u. sanctions, which include construction material, coal and steel, the kremlin, summoned the e. u ambassador to moscow over the matter. those were headlines do stay with us here now, 0, the stream is up. next. i'm back with more news straight after that. thanks
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watching life enough. ah ah. i am for me. okay, thanks for watching the stream this week. a long report, wait, excuse me, a long awaited report by south africans is due to be released. it is an investigation into how billions of dollars was stolen during the presidency of president jacob zima. meanwhile, in the united arab emirates, to businessmen who are implicated in the scandal have been arrested, they are waiting to be extradited. does this mean that south africa is ready to
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face full on it's corruption issues? that is the conversation we're about to have to day on youtube. the comment section is right here, waiting for you to be part of today's shad. ah, how can we bring young boy to talk about this conversation? it's such a tricky one to have from lonnie covey chef anita. thank you so much. you do appreciate you from lonnie, please say hello to our audience. tell them who you are, what you do. hello everyone. i am an economics and politics commentator in south africa. i write for various news outlets. so yes is what i do in the media and comment on current affairs given important voice. and that's why i'm here. nice savvy kevin shall welcome to the stream lisa, hello to our audience around the well, tell them who you are and what you do. hi everyone. i'm kemesha kelly. i am the
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head of stakeholder relations and campaigns act and as non profit organization called corruption watching janice book. i'm a social justice activist now being in the anti corruption field with the last decade. good to have you in for me to welcome back to this thing is always good to have you on board. if you want our audience who you are, i'm what you do. thanks very much for me. i'm from you. the miller. i'm the southern african correspondent for al jazeera english, and i've covered a number of stories around some of these corruption scandals that involve the former president, but appears to be carrying on into the current administration in south africa and continues to be a major topic of discussion thread of this phrase, state capture. it's unique to south africa. it's almost as if government politicians have been using south african funds as if it's like an a t m. it's like this public's money. it's our money. let's use it. can you give us a couple of examples of what state capture literally means. it's basically elements
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that the state being taken over taking, being to fund it. and that's exactly it. and that's of africans to some extent, haven't had on since around just how the state funds have been used. and in that way, the state captured and used to benefit a select few and perhaps people linked to them. you touched on the group 2 brothers who had been arrested in the united arab emirates at the beginning of this month. and i think this is specifically a story that has captured the imagination of south africans because you have one family born in india to begin with, who move to south africa around 10931994. and through the relationship with the former president jacob zoom, i meant to manipulate state enterprises influence the former president, and also affect just who runs this country. ultimately wanting specific people in prominent positions to benefit to their business dealings. and i think that's one
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of the major and key issues, examples of state capture in south africa. but i think what it's concerning for south africans is that it seems to be top down and almost no end to the extent of corruption. and that's why i think that keeping a keen eye on this, in particular, because it's one of those instances that needs to be dealt with effectively and put all the africans to feel reassured that something is being done to the national pers, where they just don't have arms around their tax money having to is this the biggest corruption scandal that south africa as ever had to deal with? yes unfortunately you know, during this state capture in this iteration of the state capture era, it has been quite devastating to the country just to bold on to what from eda was saying is that state capture is a type of ground corruption. and what the good at brothers had done, essentially was they had hollowed out state institutions. so like state owned
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enterprises, but also law enforcement institutions in the country. one of the forced to full meaning that politically compromised people will placed in our criminal justice agency so that they could be and not go off and prosecute and hold the groups of brothers in the those within the circle accountable. so it has been be devastating to the country. it has been a very big issue. but corruption has been a problem for south africa even before our democracy. i think at this point or what's the difference right now is that there's a higher level of transparency. we have free media, we're able to expose this, but these types of issues it on state caption, grand political corruption is not something that's new to south africa. so that's a really good point. baloney. i remember living in south africa at the time when j consumer was campaigning to be president, and people were laughing like jacob, so he's got such such a history, such a cheeky press and he's in,
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he's got so much baggage. there is no way he's going to be president of south africa i'm and here we are. is the problem with corruption? is it because j consumer sets as president an atmosphere for where there's an anything goes way of governing all, was he to sliding and quite nicely into a way of coughing that was already set out? well look, a corruption was already there as calisha has sort of you know, said, but we jacobs or my the state capture it was i would argue the biggest scandal in sort of customer chrissy because of the magnitude of the nature of it, the connections that were built a very interesting statistic is that some people estimated about $6500000000.00 was looted or stolen, you know, in government funds, in the state capture, you know,
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in this corruption network, with the, as in zoom as administration. now for me, that's a big amount of money given the challenges, the kind of faces the challenge of poverty, the challenges, challenges of our service delivery at quite a kay. shien infrastructure a whole lot, isn't it? because because south africans are still disappointed that their standard of living since a party had ended, is not as high as they would like it to be. meanwhile, that politicians that they voted into office are stealing, not all of them, but some of them are stealing that. well, that is shameful. i think this is where the amc me a so sorry, as the african national congress is having a lot of difficulty and being criticized significantly because of the promises made
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and we're seeing how the extent of corruption is trickling down to a dwindling support for the a and see we saw this in the last election, and we're also facing a very important political. we are in south africa this year. and this is where the corruption allegations against a number of high ranking a and c leadership and even the current president obama was i boiled in a scandal at the moment or around a private residence and the alleged left of millions of dollars. this kind, these kind of allocations and scandals, trickling down to solve africans and ultimately affecting the a and c support because of the lack of service delivery. so you've spoken about how it's impacted, how south africans are viewing the government and how they're disgruntled. but ultimately we are going to have authorities how to account if not with criminal charges being laid against them, but certainly a dwindling political support. they are going to feel the impact of that. let me
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just go to you too because i got some interesting comments on you, jim. can you help me out with a few of the cello says, apart from just the monetary value that was stolen, what was worse was the investment lost in infrastructure and improving the lives of ordinary people because the ship can you pick up on that thought? isn't he, i mean, so that she could at the dawn of our democracy, we've had, you know, when, with our constitution we have perhaps one of the most progressive constitutions in the world. what corruption has done is that it's proving to the delay zation of basic human rights to people. meaning that there is a large population in our country who don't have access to our basic services to running water, to housing, to education, to healthy. just as kamani was saying, and, you know, i think for a long time the conversation at on corruption has always been an economic one. you know, we've always focused or fetish, you know, you know,
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the amount of the billions in the trillions that will last. but we've never really focused on the people in the lives that it's impacted. and i think during this, you know, during the, the state capture this iteration of state caption during the rears to do judicial commissions of inquiry. we, we actually learned about ordinary people and how they've been suffering and what they faced. you know, it's changed the conversation and it's started to make us as a country, realised that, you know, this is not sustainable as camida was saying that, you know, the political eat a losing, you know, chest, they've lost public trust. and, and, you know, the scary thing that starting to emerge is that there's a number of perception surveys that have been done by credible institutions that are saying that, you know, south africans are willing, young south africans, are willing to give up democracy, are willing to give up the right to vote so that they can just have access to health key and water and employment. um, and these are just the fix of corruption in the countries that people no longer
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believe in our democracy, or they don't see the value in it because they aren't able to meaningfully participate in it. from lonnie earlier on today, as a team in johannesburg, went out on to the streets to, to get some of the public reaction. go ahead, did you want to say something before i play the some of the public magics i was really interested in you just bouncing off the back of that, monica, if you go fast. yes, i wanted to talk about this also highlights family of them. the dangers offer very, very massive, very powerful states, how dangerous it can be right in the sense that the more, the bigger the government is that also or, or pens, opportunities for higher levels of corruption. right. so, and we saw that the cementing of corruption under jacob zoom and the size of the state, how damaging it was. so we need to have also to think about how we can minimize government to make it as small as possible so that we don't see, you know,
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more possibilities are opportunities, opportunities, or for any who is kind of perhaps getting, i don't know who, who's normally that will push for that? well, i think the main thing here is to understand basically the import that importance has to come from the head of the state. i think there's really important to say ok, here's i'm putting together the administration how gray make sure that i have as small the government as possible and how do we as also citizens push for the changes? what was it where democracy, if we can add you in, push for the change where government is getting out of control in terms or size empowers. we can achieve something, we need to drive the change as well as citizens. wanted to really get a sense of how south africans were thinking and feeling about the eventual extradition of the good to brothers. so they have to come back to south africa to
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phase and to be on trial. i'm so for me to and her team went out to talk to people, and this is what they told us a little bit earlier today. not everyone is not above above them. this is an example of dorian was also causing corruption. that option is a crime. i think it's very important in a country like this, that nobody is above above the law and for the rule of law to be taking its course here. i think it is a brilliant thing and you know, if they've got a case that had be heard in it, in the, by the judiciary and independent judiciary. and let's see what the outcome is. but i think it's a very, very good thing. the nation has been waiting for this moment. we're seeing a change at least for once. i guess people are not getting away with, with corruption as easily as before. it's a good example to any one was commuting such high crimes or 2 in one might to commit crime. you might try not where you from a place, but it's not to run away from your crimes. made people sing quite optimistic there,
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but on you cheer. well, i, i've got hines saying south africa will never change. while corrupt people are in power, they would do everything to stay in power. but were you feeling as you were going out and about the people? i know the cup 2 brothers are coming back to face a trial. that means something i think is just the extent of that alleged corruption. that's got people i suppose, as you say optimistic but determined to get answers to a around state capture and corruption am in debt. this family was allowed to you south africa as a piggy bank, really and, and i think that's why many of them are quite passionate around the group to brothers. perhaps the former president, jacob zoom i and anybody else who might be involved to answer for these alleged crimes. and also i think the messaging from the government potentially and the national prosecuting authority could be on point in terms of showing south africans
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that were ready to do something about corruption. and that's certainly how president obama was a, has positioned himself, that he's anti corruption, that he's going to clean up government. and that africa will potentially have a better future in terms of restoring government integrity, supporting development. and essentially, just making this a workable state and creating governance that works better for south africans and, and, and perhaps to optimistically. so the africans leaning on this potential extradition and court appearance and trial of the group 2 brothers to restore their faith in the government. the convention i'm thinking about how deep does corruption in south africa go beyond form a present. jacob summa, beyond the go to brothers, and does it spread all the way through the current government as well? how a serial ram, oppose and done in terms of he came,
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his mandate was i'm going to fight corruption. how would you assess his attempt to fight corruption? so i think connection at the moment in the country unfortunately, has become quite endemic. and that is, you know, building on for me to as point these been as a college in a st of impunity. and nobody is being held accountable. so when you see people on the streets, you know, having a sense of optimism, you can see why, because, you know, for years these just be no accountability. but you can also understand that despair from some of you, you're the audience members and youtube because they still not enough that's being done. and i think that's the issue with the current president with president jam opposed that he definitely came in on the anti corruption ticket. and you know, he promised to clean up the state. but, you know, given the politics of the, of the ruling party at the moment, you know, there was no ne way, oh,
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there was no room for him to actually make those radical changes. but we also now are sitting with we sitting with the president who has also been embroiled in a number of scandals. oh, you know, most recently are drones of property that he owns and you know, a few $1000000.00 that's been stashed. allegedly, in a culture he's and that's are, if you could give me a that back up just a little bit because i'm so glad you told the story cuz i was about to ask you. so in one of his residences, i believe millions of dollars stashed in various pieces of furniture and then that money whence i wanted to equity, but i went missing. okay, yes. i would say people are alleging that he is involved in corruption, even though he's the person who's supposed to be fighting corruption. felicia finish a thought, i want them bringing
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a present rama post to see how he reacted to those those, those allegations but finish a thought. yeah. yeah. so, i mean that the story is still developing and unfolding as the days go by from what we understand is that it was not public money, but the fact that you just dashing a lot of dallas, a lot of cash in your house is assigned that this money laundering, you know, and there's some type of criminal activity that's going on. so it's not doing well in terms of building public trust that this government would, that the president himself, e. c. s, was flashing money in his furniture. all right, i'm trying really hard not to love, but if i didn't laugh, we would all requiring. all right, so, so we're, i'm oppose a is, is battling corruption allegations and this is what he told the public and parliament on june the night. let's have a listen. it also requires great courage from all of us.
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in recent days, we're seeing those who sent to louis the most from the fight against corruption, resorting to better tricks, intimidation, good, some good us back to back dom, but we will not be deterred by chance of any kind whatsoever. so that puts the present in a very awkward position and certainly opposition parliamentarians are pushing back . so this is from the economic freedom fighter party who on the same date, saudi to hack, hold the president as he was talking about fighting corruption. let's have a listen. let's have a look. ah,
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what we're moving up. what my number one month, you know. hm. yeah yeah, we're going to come for them. well thought to for members of parliament, there will be no less or subtle in does house. you must know use live is going to become uncomfortable because we can use this unbearable house to cover up his money laundering activities for money. this is a very messy situation because hes a president as well known for sang corruption. i am fighting corruption and then it almost being undermined by his own activities. allegedly, let's look at what is possible from civil society, south africans. what can they do? because i know that you were, was saying that maybe is how we sought out corruption. we have to hold people accountable. what do you think about whistleblowers?
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ok, so the 1st thing i need to say here family is that when you look at the corruption perceptions index from transference, international says 2019. so efficacy corruption perceptions they have. they haven't really changed. we haven't really seen change under our, our, under the current president. i saw that when it comes to whistle blowing. i think it's a very important element of our society that we have. and i think we have to have protection for those people who are willing to come forward and you know, exports corruption in the country that has got out of hand. but i also think that from a, the change that we can bring as this was that i think when the mental it, we think about what we do in the next elections. how do we hold our leaders accountable? and those were involved in corruption. you remove them and give the opportunity to others while it's corrupt, or it is why not corrupt, give other people the opportunity to come in the country. we've seen the mismanagement of the economy of institutions, the corruption levels,
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and we're seeing little change from the current present that we have who, even at this point as we've just been sneaking his facing scandals of his own. i want to bring in here to our conversation, cynthia temple, who has her own story to tell about seeing corruption and calling it out. i do a transaction working. i saw that in south africa, we had to predict a disclosure that however, this does not, it is me sure. coming in the attic that we should pay to gave me was lower. but as lulu told us earlier, it's not really about the idea of south africa handling corruption. tapping corruption, it is the political will, there is have a listen. let's have
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a look. i think this is of the things that our government doesn't seem to be in the class. easy to see a few months back to see weaknesses of people that were whistleblowers, kills a hearing and commission. and i don't remember any reports showing that those people have been arrested. i'm also, again, was again just dipping in, take you to, for me to bring the cook to brothers in it's time they face the consequences. it will also be a good example. show the rest that south africans won't stand for it, it being corruption. moving forward. i feel that this is a moment for meta is the south africans can grab onto say, yes, we can tackle corruption. it's not impossible to do so. am i being overly optimistic? final thought,
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i do think south africans across the country are more or less on the same page in terms of fighting corruption. the last time we saw that africans come together was calling for the resignation of the former president, jacob zoom. and i think the extent of corruption at the stage is enough to galvanize sub africans across the country because it is only affecting the everyday south africa in terms of service delivery. and just watch the government is able to do for them, which at this point appears to be very little because so much money has been stolen . so much has been looted and sub africans are not benefiting. but also this issue around the transparency of the state. perhaps it has increased, but we've also saw in the recent months we've seen survey from africa barometer talk about 53 percent of south african say that corruption has worsened, understood rama forces presidency. and again, the issue of whistle blowers,
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we do need to see the channels for people to come forward. so much to talk about whenever we talk about south africa, particularly about how south africa grapples with corruption. thank you for media. thank you. can be sure. thank you, pam lanny and for you on you to feel comments and questions i see next time. ah ah. the latest news as it breaks, evolving challenge square features $21.00 white forces, one for each of the victims of today's massacres. with detailed coverage earlier with from around the
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world with it here, they will read, you know, the mind of go to go home, remain unchanged, african stories from african perspectives. most of them are never bought more than i was not gonna go machine because of the voice of machine i feel like in, i mean, as a short documentary, by african filmmakers from kenya, he raised almost aren't dial into something back, isabel and ivory coast colors. i live here and scrap yard animal africa direct on al jazeera. there are some of the media stories, a critical look at the global news media spread on al jazeera government shuttle access to social media. so la monochrome, it's great to see. welcome to the cutter economic forum powered by bloomberg. some
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people say that they said the globalization going on, but i prefer to think of that re globalization, our accomplish speakers from heads of state to business and policy leaders will discuss evolving technology, education, culture, sustainability, and the impact on the economy. ah, hello, i'm learned taylor, none of the top stories on out 0. state officials have told the u. s. congress that they were personally pressured by then president donald trump. to return the results of the 2020 election. i've testified before the 4th hearing of the house committee investigation into last year's capital hill riot, sam, arizona's house speaker says trump pushed for his team to be allowed into the state capitol to present what they called evidence of voter fraud. but he refused,
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did not go up to that time the, the circus i called with the circus had been brewing with lots of demonstrations both at the county.


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