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tv   The Stream  Al Jazeera  June 22, 2022 5:30pm-6:01pm AST

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counties have begun cleaning up emergency teams all moving debris and clearing blocked roads, but many areas a still without electricity. last year, almost 400 people were killed in floods in central hun, on province. the government was accused of being slow to respond to the so called once in a 1000 years down pool. and critics called for improvements to china's emergency warning systems. katrina, you al jazeera paging. ah, as is al jazeera, these you top stories, state media enough got installed, say at least 1000 people have been killed in a magnitude 5.9 earthquake in the southeast. hundreds of people injured. the taliban have appealed for international help. the saudi crown prince mohammed ben salmon is visiting turkey for the 1st time since the 2018 murder journalist
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demarcus showed genus dumble relations between the 2 countries of intense since the killing regional and financial challenges have forced encore and react to repair ties. but so said it has more the mission serves between these 2 muslim father houses in the region. how these things after the out of to be in 2011, this 2 companies of support of different political movements across the region and saudi arabia, united, arbutus, m, egypt. so the, that the actors, the turkey is supported in the region as a threat to the benefit of the power in the region. and then in 2017, a blockade over one of the key ally of 30 katara has been declared by the gulf countries. and that has further pushed there that the 2 countries are going to be on turkey. upon polymer, it was the killing off there. so with the journalist, democracy in kingdoms, consulate in the stumbling, 2018. that firm the sharp down divisions between the 2 concert israeli and pays
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a voted in favor of dissolving parliament. the ballot is one of his series that will set the stage for the countries 5th election in less than 4 years. this week, the fraction coalition, government agreed it could not survive. a funeral has been held for palestinian man stopped by an israeli settler in the occupied west bank witnesses fe 27. your ali hob was attacked when working on his own land. on tuesday, israeli police of open investment investigation. the palestinians is skeptical with those responsible will be held accountable. and russia is stepping up its assault on ukraine's eastern city of savannah don. yet, troops are carrying out as strikes and shelling on ukrainian positions. the cave says it's holstered, rushes advance at multiple locations. okay, then see headlines. the stream is next. world leaders will convene in the bavaria now in the latest attempt to address the war in ukraine and these financial
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pressure on the global economy. the g 7 meeting will be immediately followed by a nato summit in madrid, where expansion of the lock and supporting ukraine will dominate. did all the latest developments on al jazeera with i am familiar. okay, thanks for watching the stream this week. a long awaited report investigating how millions of dollars was stolen from south africans during the presidency of preston . jacob zima is about to be released to business men who were implicated in that scandal who fled to the united arab emirates. they're about to be extradited. does that mean that finally south africa is able to grapple with its corruption problems? that is our conversation for today you want to be part of it. is right here. join our discussion. ah,
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how can we bring young boy to talk about this conversation? it's such a tricky one to have from lonnie covey chef anita. thank you so much. you do appreciate you. but milanni, please say hello to our audience. tell them who you are, what you day. hello everyone. i'm. i am in economics and politics commentator in south africa. i write for various news outlets. so yes, what i do in the media and comment on current affairs give an important be a voice, and that's why i'm here. nice savvy, kevin shall welcome to the stream. please hello to audience around the well, tell them who you are and what you day. hi everyone. i'm kemesha kelly. i am the head of stakeholder relations and campaigns act in non profit organization called correction. watching janice book. i'm a social justice activist now being in the anti corruption field with the last decade. good to have you in for me to welcome back to the spring is always good to have you on board with our audience who you are. i'm what you do. thanks very much
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for me. i'm from you. the miller, i'm the southern african correspondent for al jazeera english. and i've covered a number of stories around some of these corruptions scandals that involve the former president, but appears to be carrying on into the current administration in south africa and continues to be a major topic of discussion. now, through this phrase, state capture, it's unique to south africa. it's almost as if government politicians have been using south african funds as if it's like an a t m. it's like this public's money. it's our money. let's use it. can you give us a couple of examples of what state capture literally means. it's basically elements that the state being taken over taking been to fund it. and that's exactly it. and that's how the africans, to some extent, haven't had on since around just how the state funds have been used. and in that way, the state captured and used to benefit
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a select few and perhaps people linked to them. you touched on the good to brothers who had been arrested in the united arab emirates at the beginning of this month. and i think this is specifically a story that has captured the imagination of south africans because you have one family born in india to begin with, who move to south africa around 19931994 through the relationship with the former president, jacob zoom i meant to manipulate state enterprises influence the former president, and also affect just who runs this country. ultimately wanting specific people in prominent positions to benefit their business dealings. i think that's one of the major and key issues, examples of state capture in south africa. but i think what it's concerning for south africans is that it seems to be top down and almost no end to the extent of corruption. and that's why i think that keeping a keen eye on this, in particular, because it's one of those instances that needs to be dealt with effectively and put
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all the africans to feel reassured that something is being done to the national pers way they just don't have answers around their tax money having to is this the biggest corruption scandal that south africa as ever had to deal with? yes unfortunately you know, during this stage capture in this iteration of the state capture era, it has been quite devastating to the country just to bold on to what from eda was saying is that state capture is a type of ground corruption. and what the good at brothers had done, essentially was they had hollowed out state institutions. so like state owned enterprises. but also law enforcement institutions in the country were one of the forced to fall. meaning that politically compromised people will placed in our criminal justice agency. so that they could then not go off and prosecute and hold a group to read those in the those within they circle accountable. and so it has
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been be devastating to the country. it has been a very big issue. but corruption has been a problem for south africa even before our democracy. i think at this point or what's the difference right now is that there's a higher level of transparency. we have free media, we're able to expose this. but these types of issues it on state caption, grand political corruption is not something that's new to south africa. so that's a really good point. baloney. i remember living in south africa at the time when j consumer was campaigning to be president, and people were laughing like jacob, so he's got such such a history, such a cheeky press and he's and he's got so much baggage. there was no way he's going to be president of south africa i'm and here we are. is the problem with corruption? is it because j consumer sets as president an atmosphere for where there is an
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anything goes way of governing all, was he to sliding and quite nicely into a way of coughing that was already set up? well look, a corruption was already there as calisha has sort of, you know, said, but we jacobs or my, the state capture it was, i would argue the biggest scandal in sort of cause democracy because of the magnitude of the nature of it, the connections that were built a very interesting statistic is that some people estimated about $6500000000.00 was looted or stolen, you know, in government funds, in the state capture, you know, in this corruption network with the group ch as in zoom as administration. now for me, that's a big amount of money given the challenges, the kind of faces the challenge of poverty, the challenges, challenges of our service delivery point, occasion infrastructure. there is
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a whole lot, isn't it? because because south africans are still disappointed that their standard of living since a party had ended, is not as high as they would like it to be. meanwhile, that politicians that they voted into office are stealing, not all of them, but some of them are stealing that. well, that is shameful. i think they me, this is it with the ac? me a so i guess the african national congress is having a lot of difficulty and being criticized significantly because of the promises made and we're seeing how the extent of corruption is trickling down to a dwindling support for the agency. we saw this in the last election, and we're also facing a very important political. we are in south africa this year. and this is where these corruption allegations against a number of high ranking
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a and c leadership and even the current president obama was i boiled in a scandal at the moment or around a private residence and the alleged left of millions of dollars. this kind, these kind of allocations and scandals are trickling down to solve africans and ultimately affecting the n c support because of the lack of service delivery. so you've spoken about how it's impacted, how south africans are viewing the government and how they disgruntled but ultimately we are going to have authorities how to account if not with criminal charges being laid against them, but certainly a dwindling political support. they are going to feel the impact of that. let me just go to you too because i got some interesting comments on you chip, cuz they should help me out with a few of the cello says, apart from just the monetary value that was stolen. what was worse, was the investment lost in infrastructure and improving the lives of ordinary people because the ship can you pick up on that thought? isn't she?
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i mean, so that she could, at the dawn of our democracy, we've had, you know, when, with our constitution we have perhaps one of the most progressive constitutions in the world. what corruption has done is that it's proving to the realization of basic human rights to people. meaning that there is a large population in our country who don't have access to our basic services to running water to housing, to education tusky just as kamani was saying. and, you know, i think for a long time, the conversation at on corruption has always been an economic one. you know, we've always focused or fetish, you know, you know, the amount of the billions in the trillions that will last. but we've never really focused on the people in the lives that it's impacted. and i think during this, you know, during the, the state capture this iteration of state caption during the rears to do judicial commissions of inquiry. we, we actually lines about ordinary people and how they've been suffering and what
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they faced, you know, it's changed the conversation and it's started to make us as a country, realised that, you know, this is not sustainable. it's asked me to, i was saying that, you know, the political eat a losing, you know, chest, they've lost public trust. and, and, you know, the scary thing that starting to emerge is that there's a number of perception surveys that have been done by credible institutions that are saying that, you know, south africans are willing, young south africans, are willing to give up democracy, are willing to give up their right to vote so that they can just have access to how key and water and employment and, and these are just the fix of corruption in the countries that people no longer believe in our democracy or they don't see the value in it because they aren't able to meaningfully participate in it from lonnie earlier on today. as a team in johannesburg, went out on to the streets to, to get some of the public reaction. go ahead,
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did you want to say something before i place some of the public magics i was really interested in you just bouncing off the back of that, monica, if you go fast. yes, i wanted to talk about this also highlights for me then. then the dangers offer very, very massive, very powerful states, how dangerous it can be right in the sense that they're more, the bigger the government is that also pens, opportunities for higher levels of corruption. right? so, and we saw that the cement of corruption under jacob zoom and the size of the state, how damaging it was. so we need to have also to think about how we can minimize government to make it as small as possible so that we don't see, you know, more possibilities or opportunities, opportunities, or for any host of perhaps getting out of it. you know who, who's normally that will push for that? well, i think the main thing here is to understand basically the import that importance
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has to come from the head of the state. i think that's very important to say, okay, here's, i'm putting together the administration. how great make sure that i have as small the government as possible and how do we as also citizens push for the changes? what was it where democracy, if we can add you in, push for the change where government is getting out of control in terms of size empowers. we can achieve something, we need to drive the change as well as citizens. wanted to really get a sense of how south africans were thinking and feeling about the eventual extradition of the good to brothers. so they have to come back to south africa to phase and to be on trial. i'm so if the media and her team went out to talk to people, and this is what they told us a little bit earlier today. not everyone is not above and above that, this is an example of tauriel was also causing columbus. united option is a crime. i think it's very important in a country like this,
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that nobody is above above the law and for the rule of law to be taking its course . here i think is it is a brilliant thing. and, you know, if they've got a case that had be heard in it, in the, by the judiciary, an independent judiciary. and let's see what the outcome is. but i think it's a very, very good thing. the nation has been waiting for this moment. we seeing a change at least for one, so i guess people are not getting over with, with corruption as easily as before. is a good example to anyone who's got meetings such i crimes or to anyone who might to commit crime. you might try not where you from a place, but it's not to run away from your crimes. made people sing quite optimistic there, but on you cheer. what i've got hines saying south africa will never change. while corrupt people are empowered, they would do everything to stay empower. but were you feeling as you were going out and about the people? i know the cup 2 brothers are coming back to face a trial. that means something i think is just the extent of that alleged
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corruption. that's got people i suppose, as you say optimistic but did determined to get answers to around state capture and corruption. i'm in debt. this family was allowed to you south africa as a piggy bank, really and, and i think that's why many of them are quite passionate around the good to brothers. perhaps the former president, jacob zoom and anybody else might be involved to answer for these alleged crimes. and also, i think the messaging from the government potentially and the national prosecuting authority could be on point in terms of showing south africans that were ready to do something about corruption. and that's certainly how president obama plaza has positioned himself that he's anti corruption, that he's going to clean up government. and that africa, it will potentially have a better future in terms of restoring government integrity,
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supporting development. and essentially, just making this a workable state and creating governance that works better for south africans and, and perhaps to optimistically. so the africans leaning on the potential extradition and court appearance and trial of the cooper brothers to restore their faith in the government. the convention i'm thinking about how deep does corruption in south africa go beyond formal present. jacob summa, beyond the go to brothers, and does it spread all the way through the current government as well as ceramic post done in terms of he came his mandate was i'm going to fight corruption. how would you assess his attempt to fight corruption? so i think connection at the moment in the country unfortunately has become quite endemic. and that is, you know,
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bolding one from it has point. these been us just a caution, a scene of impunity and nobody's been held accountable. so when you see people on the streets, you know, having a sense of optimism, you can see why, because, you know, for years this just be no accountability. but you can also understand that despair from some of you, you're the audience members and youtube because they're still not enough that's being done. and i think that's the issue with the current president with president jam opposed that he definitely came in on the anti corruption ticket. you know, he promised to clean up the state. but, you know, given the politics of the, of the ruling party at the moment, you know, there was no ne way, oh, there was no room for him to actually make those radical changes. but we also now are sitting with we sitting with the president who has also been embroiled in a number of scandals. oh, you know, most recently around a property that he owns and you know, a few $1000000.00 that's been stashed. allegedly, in a culture he's and that's are,
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if you could give me a got back up just a little bit because i'm so glad you told this story because i was about to ask you . so in one of his residences, i believe millions of dollars stashed in various pieces of furniture and then that money whence i wanted to equity, but i went missing. okay, yes. and i will say people are alleging that he is involved in corruption, even though he's the person who's supposed to be fighting corruption. felicia finish or thought, i want to them bringing a present rama post to see how he reacted to those those, those allegations. but finish a thought. yeah. yeah. so, i mean that the story is still developing and unfolding as the days go by from what we understand is that it was not public money, but the fact that you just stashing
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a lot of dollars, a lot of cash in your house is assigned that this money laundering, you know, and there's some type of criminal activity that's going on. so it's not doing well in terms of boating, public trust that this government would, that the president himself is serious. but i hang money in his furniture. you know, i'm trying really hard not to laugh, but if i didn't laugh, we would all be crying. all right, so no. so we're, i'm oppose a is, is battling corruption allegations. and this is what he told of the public and parliament on june the night. let's have a listen. it requires great courage for all of us. in recent days, we're seeing those who sent to louis the most from the fight against corruption, resorting to better tricks and intimidation. you know,
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some good us back to back down, but we will not be deterred by threats of any kind whatsoever. so that puts the present in a very awkward position and certainly opposition parliamentarians are pushing back . so this is from the economic freedom fighter party who on the same date, saudi to hack, hold the president as he was talking about fighting corruption. let's have a listen. let's have a look. ah, we're going to come for them. well, 44 members of parliament. there will be no less paserel in does house you must know he is live is going to become uncomfortable because we can use this hon house to cover up his money laundering activities for money. this is a very messy situation because hes a present as well known for sang corruption. i am fighting corruption and then it
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almost being undermined by his own activities. allegedly, let's look at what is possible from civil society, south africans. what can they do? because i know that you were, were saying that maybe is how we sought out corruption. we have to hold people accountable. what do you think about whistleblowers? okay, so the 1st thing i need to say here family is that when you look at the corruption perceptions index from transference, international says 2019. so efficacy corruption perceptions they have, they haven't really changed. we haven't really seen change under our, our, under the current president so that when it comes to whistle blowing, i think it's a very important element of our society that we have. and i think we have to have protection for those people who are willing to come forward and you know, expose corruption in the country that has got out of hand. but i also think that
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from a, the change that we can bring as this was that i think when the mental it, we think about what we do in the next elections. how do we hold our leaders accountable and those way involved in corruption? you remove them and give the opportunity to others while is corrupt, which is why not corrupt, give other people the opportunity to, to come in the country. we've seen the mismanagement of the economy of institutions, the corruption levels, and we are seeing little change from the current present that we have who, even at this point as we've just been sticking his facing scandals of his own. i want to bring in here to our conversation, cynthia temple, who has her own story to tell about seeing corruption and calling it out. i do a transaction working with in south africa, we have to predict a disclosure that however, this does not,
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it is me sure can in the, at the state that we should pay to gauge meant me was lower. but as new told us earlier, it's not really about the idea of south africa handling corruption. tapping corruption, it is the political will, there is have a listen. let's have a look. i think think, think your government doesn't seem to be taking the class quite a few months back to the weaknesses of people. there's a little blow actually killed from launching and devoted to commission, and i don't have any major post showing that those people that have been ministered . i'm also, again, was again, just dipping in teaching for me to bring the cook to brothers in it's time they
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face the consequences. it will also be a good example. show the rest that south africans won't stand for it, it being corruption. moving forward. i feel that this is a moment for me to is move that sal africans can grab onto saying yes we can tackle corruption. it's not impossible to do so. am i being overly optimistic? final thought. i do think so. the africans across the country are more or less on the same page in terms of fighting corruption. the last time the source of africans come together was calling for the resignation of the former president, jacob zoom. and i think the extent of corruption at the stage is enough to galvanize sub africans across the country because it is only affecting the everyday south africa in terms of service delivery. and just watch the government is able to do for them, which at this point appears to be very little because so much money has been stolen so much has been looted. and so the africans are not benefiting. but also this
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issue around the transparency of the state. perhaps it is increased, but we also saw in the recent months, you've seen a survey from africa barometer talk about 53 percent of african say that corruption has worsened, understood rama poses presidency. and again, the issue of whistleblowers, we do need to see, i mean channels for people to come forward. so much to talk about whenever we talk about south africa, particularly about how south africa grapples with corruption. thank you for media. thank you, kathy shout, thank you. from loni and for you on you to feel comments and questions i see next time. take ah, a new generation of young people and making demands to rebalance society. welcome to generational change, a global series, the attempts to understand and challenge the ideas that mobilize you around the world in london to activate a,
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tackling the root causes of youth violence. many young people back patriot violence against other young people themselves have also been victim multiple times. my generation can try mean his i'm, we shape this is generation change on al jazeera, the latest news, as it breaks. we've all the town square features, $21.00 white forces, one for each of the victims of today's massacres. with detailed coverage already up there is worth a world from around the world with gathered here. they will read, you know, the man to go to go home, remains unchanged. it's rush hour at the local community center in lieu batch of 15 kilometers from the border way. ukraine. that note that cuts jack is a retired russian language teacher and is collecting goods donated by people from
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all over europe. thought i agree are helping people on the other side of the border to once the state behind who can plead. since russia invaded ukraine, danita has been driving across the border every day. crossing the border is always tricky, but the women say that today they have a lucky day because the border guard is someone they know and it's going to be hopefully much easier to bring down the goods in the notes. if we leave to find a less chaotic situation, that in the past few days, people seem less exhausted. just i'm, i'm not crying. as you can see. that note us mission has been accomplish one now, but you will return with more goods. as long as russia missiles and rockets forced people out of ukraine, how and why did who did become so obsessed with this law, we were giving them a tool to hold the corrupt individuals and human rights abusers accountable. they're going to rip this deal apart if they take the white house of 2025. what is
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the world hearing what we're talking about by americans today? your weekly take on us politics and society? that's the bottom line. ah, this is al jazeera ah hello, i'm adrian finnegan. this is louise. i'll live from doha, coming up in the next 60 minutes. widespread devastation in afghanistan off to the most powerful of quick and decade sleeves. of least, a 1000 people dead. the staggering cost of climate change, reco brained, fall of floods forced millions of people from their homes. in parts of india, bangladesh and china. ukraine sends reinforcements to the friends that overlaps with.


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