tv Talk to Al Jazeera Francis Kere Al Jazeera August 15, 2022 5:30pm-6:01pm AST
just make sense stuff. what's happening right now and tell us what you're hearing about why there's still a delay but we're just outside the national tally center. i know this big screen was manage, show the final results to the presidential election being read out a couple of hours ago, a william root. so who is one of the 2 main content is his motorcade arrived there are quite some time ago, right. or a dingo, the other main content hasn't showed up he hasn't arrived. and then his chief returning officer speaking outside short while ago and said that the system had been hacked and that they were imply that they were rejecting the results of the presidential election. i mean, right now that seems to be some kind of commotion going on inside of the auditorium . goosgo reports that not all of the 7 commissioners, the panel of 7 electoral commissioners have accepted this result. and so it does
seem that this is wants to get in dispute. the last 3 elections in kenya, the results have been disputed. it seems that that was happening again. this time, the last election, 5 years ago. ryder a dingo who was needing the opposition. at the time, i went to the supreme court to challenge the results. the supreme court overturned the results of the election. i'm just going to turn round so we can see a glimpse of what's happening on this screen is quite some commotion cassie place in there. china, chase, chase some people out of that auditorium. and yet it seems as people's people throwing chairs and now and yeah, quite some commotion going on inside seems to be resulting from the disputed disputes regarding the result of this poll that, that took place 6 days ago. yeah. malcolm were just looking at alive. hetzel's was
hey, alex is from inside the alex for commission malcolm, we just have her about 30 seconds or so. i just was this expected at all. oh well it was certainly a very close race that the results that we've seen as they've been tallied over the last few days have shown that if there was to be a winner with anyone getting more than 50 percent less, one of the vote was going to be a by a narrow margin that certainly increased the possibility of being a dispute of the results as there has been in the last 3 elections here in kenya. malcolm, this is a developing story. so we're going to stay with the life picture from inside the electoral commission, where once again we can see, ah, chaotic scenes are people pushing and shoving each other and just talk us through once again malcolm, how we got to this situation after
a 2 hour delay as we've been awaiting the results of the 2 main contenders in this election, former prime minister rider dinger and deputy president william route. so both familiar faces in politics had been in the game for very many years. william brew. so his motorcade arrived in his motor gate here a couple of hours ago. we were waiting for ryder a didn't get to arrive, but he hasn't come. and roy lou dingus chief returning officer, spoke out here a short while ago and edging that a system had been hacked, that the presidential election results being interfered with as suggesting that his ineos as the coalition of rider. and it wasn't gonna accept them. you since heard then that some of the panel of 7 commissioners that make up the panel of the electoral commission will also not accepting the results that the chairman was
presenting and we've just seen in the last few minutes and some commotion erupting inside the electoral commission. people throwing chairs, place, and security, china push some people out of the auditorium, but they're the choir in that it's been a singing. songs for hours is remarkably still singing. they haven't stopped. they haven't even blinked. they've just kept going throughout all of this. that is pretty remarkable, malcolm ina, after what happens when passed contested results in this time around. the electoral commission had promised radical transparency with all the votes being uploaded didn't yet tele, what do we know about the actual process? well, it was not. electronic votes exist in that last time was criticized for being very opaque and when a rider dingo leading the opposition at the time when his coalition took the
dispute to the election results in court, the supreme court ruled that there had indeed been significant irregularities to do with the transmission of results in this electronic voting system and following some of the requirements issued by the supreme court in that ruling 5 years ago, this time, there were some changes in the system including that the results forms from every polling station, the moment that they were transmitted electronically from the polling station to here to the tally center. in the capital, nairobi it were immediately made public on line on the electoral commissions website. anyone could go on download the forms from all of the 44000 polling stations across the country. i could download them, print them off, and sally the results ad themselves, which is a much greater degree of transparency. the seed in the past that's enabled are the political parties themselves and other organizations to run a parallel tallies. i'm right. screech certainly hoped that that would reduce this,
that juice the chance of rigging the election, reduce the chance of a dispute, and make it easier to prove any regained co anyway. seems that hasn't succeeded in preventing a dispute of the result. so when rayleigh, didn't a ledger vote rigging a has, has his team presented any evidence to support that with the lines, the lines breaking up a bit more competitive is, is that we were expecting if anyone was to be announced when it today was to be by a very narrow margin, and of course, when one 3rd of the other is alleging any irregularities that margin gives a lot more mileage for potential to be in court. because if it's talking about just a couple 100000 votes, giving one
a lead over the other than if the complaining and identify irregularities. it just a couple of folding stations that could be enough for the supreme court to bring into question the declared result. but as it's done, we don't even have a result been declared as been to commotion. and as we saw some jazz thrown places, some people out the way to find out what the electro commission is actually going to say, because they haven't announced any kind of result. yeah. okay, malcolm will let you go for now to gather more information for the time being. thank you so much, martha web for that update from nairobi. once again, that is a life picture from inside the electoral commission, where the commission was expected to give to announce the results on the presidential election about 2 hours ago. there has been a delay. and just in the past few moments or so chaotic scenes from the electoral
commission showing some people fighting. let's bring in here with hasa. she's joining us on the phone from the west of the country. so her room, any reaction from, from your end to, to these developments literally just brought the news about what i've been telling you. you had a lot of people that now we know now we know they shouting why you eating the those people in the game of the people to be literal, to be from him, removed from the basement. this was my apologies, but we seem to be having audio connectivity issues with you. we'll let you go for now. we will try and connect with you a little later on. let's bring in has some kind of j was the director of the horn
international institute for strategic studies. that's a research and policy thing. thank. he's joining us on skype from nairobi, sir. welcome back. what is your reaction to the unfolding situation inside the electoral commission? in the last few minutes we have seen for a b, c shows make our statement is owning the process, citing the technician that was being done and the effective li, a thing. same been type in place into a crisis, and i think going to be increasingly difficult to how successful announcement who they venture. we nice thing to be what they during the back nature of the body, they supposed to know so. so what happens next? is this uncharted territory? yeah, this hasn't happened in a recent history before. and so whether they change, going to decide latterly go ahead and, and now is one thing. but what we expect is going to be more considerations where
that is going to be going to move ahead. are they going to perhaps push the country into a re run because of the inconclusive nature of the result that has been agreed upon? the deputy chairperson of the election commission has reportedly urged parties to go to the court over dispute is, is that what's going to happen next? part is good to go. i know the court, the phone de announcement of the position you know or result. and because the part that most of most of the time is supposed to get caught is actually the losing. but in the absence of that announcement, then it is hard to imagine how that is going to happen. because what exactly is going to do a 2nd eve, they look solid body does not announce the results we've been. it's been a timeline. of course, that's also said the country difference in crisis in a manner that probably thinking necessity and the election. because then the kind of election will be non essential if that were indeed the case. i mean the country
you're saying might go to another election. what do you think the reaction is going to be on the streets of nairobi and other parts of the country to this? lisa chandler, these going to be, you know, mass dissatisfaction that made witness and number perhaps bragging incidents of social and rest air and is not exactly, you know, the best place at canyon wants to be at this time. however, you've that announcement over the past month on continental, the rescheduling is done in an orderly way and that the leading candidates are at i agree to wheat, then we're going to see a more is a process that is going to allow for it, right? i think it's important to understand that this election would go either way and because of that, the tension so very high. and these a lot of bands, 18 the country. and so it's not properly managed. you know, he's going to be took was a crisis end or what we just witnessed in the last few minutes about for the day.
it little commission members is on the entire process, i think is a cause for concern and not just for kenyan st. kenya, but for the region and the world at large, oh, it wouldn't have to be done for it for the situation to be properly managed. then at the jail, the little body under other officials, they need to be more transparent in this process because what is emerging ease out from this dissatisfaction, east that j, there hasn't been sufficient transparency while the election was conducted fairly peacefully and tin belly transparent way. apparently the tally and the competition of the final result has it. and i think that is what has informed some of the decision of the a, b, c. officials to break ranks. are we the rest of the team? then if you pick to really meaning that whatever is going to be announced is not going to have the level of legitimacy and credibility that is required in order to
ensure that the country remains peaceful and accept the result. are you surprised that sir? it's gotten to to this situation we did hear earlier on from a dingo campaign manager who had already called the counting center, nairobi, quote, the scene of a crime and right police had been called to the center. so was this expected in any way at the beginning this wasn't exactly expected and end, but i think thing start becoming a little bit, you know, a day see when as that not the show started complaining that they were not having complete information on what was happening this sudden excite her supposed to be very transparent, supposed to be very often. now this was not held by the kind over our competing claims of candidates, but also the mediate, which is the white transmitter results and were showing lead. no leading candidates in at various times and saw as they process has proceeded and has gone on. we have
seen increasing livable to such action, especially from the as me or come, you know, claiming that there was a lot off my face in the was going on, of course is a claims of one, not up sufficient be addressed by the electoral body. and i think has contributed to the kind of environment we see right now. and what the situation you know, going forward, i think is going to be a little bit more time than what we have witnessed. and so we should not be surprised if we see some people in the streets in certain parts of the country. and i know you're keeping a close eye out on the situation and in kenya, of course. but these allegations that are being put forward of vote rigging, have you yourself seen every, any evidence to support these claims? not personally. i've not seen the evidence of what rigging pass fee, but he puts my duty as a citizen. but this part of the world is, you know, and at the book and saw what goes on beyond there. of course, you know,
it's not in the hands of an upgrade. and these, in the hands of the total body has to be the responsibility of managing elections from a to z. and so while much of this process has been peaceful and i've been, you know, belly critical in the mind which was conducted when it came to the italian. apparently there was a discrepancy that was raised by one of the party, especially as neil and some of the concerns. but when an address, at least based on the claims of, of, of, of a meal i contributing to the kind of climate. now we did this to me to get released by the whole abc commission and it's only been time process. i think it's amazing that kind of challenge maybe electron bodies and been the entire but it has faith in this process. we did not expect is going to escalate to this level. but i think
this is where the country find itself. and i think the leading parties need to find a way to speak in a way, in a manner that is not going to blame. the passions of ordinary citizens was very anxious that the timing is to me. yeah, the moods leading up to all of this had been anxious as we've been hearing for people on the ground because kenyans just wants to await the results and the results has been delayed. and now there is this situation. how would you just describe the moods right now in, in kenya? i know you're, you're not on the ground yourself, but what are people telling you about how they're feeling? citizens anxious, but the also frustrated. now, renting the electron, buddy still has an extra day to actually make the announcement of the result because kenyans are not used to tiling process taking this long. it had created an
environment. but now, because the electron is also very close to, you know, probably the leading candidate would have probably one by one authentic managing it has created, you know, a fucking ground conspiracy theories. and you know, this is not exactly unique to opinion, any time when the stations out better beated and the very close you're going to have a lot of, you know, things are going to be to be high. and the conspirators are going to study much. now in the process of the final process does not seem to be better off that way. the by accident or design of a perception is bound to create crisis is bound to create problems. now, what is the mental? it is one thing to have a perception of unfairness from the patio. competing is another thing to have a perception of opinion by parts over a section of
a team that is supposed to be managing the election. and i think that is where the problem is. so the biggest worry is to ensure how are we going to ensure that actually the total body speaks with one voice and that they, all of the members how confident in the process in which has been done because it does not been how we going to expect you know, average citizens open this class and so to actually happened in that. ok, we thank you so much for speaking to us from nairobi on this developing new story out of kenya will bring in malcolm web. malcolm is standing by for us outside the electoral commission center, that is a life picture from inside the center itself. where malcolm things appear to have calm down a little bit more what. what are you seeing and what are you here? oh yeah, looks a bit calmer. in there right now requires
a still singing i've been singing for for about 6 or 7 hours now, is this long expected results been delayed, but just minutes ago the vice chair, the deputy chair of the electoral commission, juliana sure error and 3 other electoral commissioners held a press conference at a hotel in the center of the city, and they said that they can't endorse the result is going to be announced here at the electoral commission. they said that the final stages of the process of been 2 i take and that they can't have ownership of this result. that sir is due to be announced here at bowman, the national tally center of the electoral commission. there are 7 commissioners on that paddle and is, is 4 of them, say that they are not endorsing the result that they say was due to be announced here. this follows those allegations made here short while ago by the chief
returning officer of riley dingus. coalition called a z mio, when he alleged that the system had been hacked and blind, that there were irregularities in the results of the presidential election as jessina is gimme o and violate anger. are not accepting them either. so malcolm, what is it that happens next? waiting to find out still if the chair of the actual commission will go ahead in the now a result or not given that. now that it seems that 4 of the, the commission is on that panel of 7 on supporting it looks like in the auditorium now. the choir has stopped singing. people are taking their way to see if anything will be announced. and then of course, the different parts of the country that support these 2 different front runners.
we're going to be keeping a close eye on them in kissing, in west and can near it's a strong hold of rider. we're doing it him or his, his boss, the, if they reject the result possible area for unrest. similarly, as supporters of william grew to in the rest of the valley, if they believe that they've been cheated or rigged after the victory. that could cause tension that the last 3 elections even can you have been disputed. 2 of them have been followed with violent everything and largely peaceful up to this stage. certainly not uncommon to be a dispute in the course of the speed can lead to protest intentions. on the street, how much confidence the kenyans have in this election, malcolm going into it well, it turn out was lower than last time, about 65 percent. this time, last time it was nearly 80 percent. and one of the things that could certainly have
effected that is that 5 years ago in the last election, the supreme court a know the results in order to rebut the opposition at the time led by ryder didn't . i didn't even compete in re run cuz they said there's irregularities, hadn't been fixed. so that certainly at least among his supporters, i think had some effective undermining trust in the electoral process. the electoral commission itself said registration among young voters was down this time suggesting again that the younger people don't think the familiar faith is making familiar promises would fix that problems or skeptical about the fact that the votes would actually counts. and of course, following those disputes of the last 3 election, the last from being overturned in 2007. certainly the belief among opposition to both is that they've been rigged out of
a victory. that was what prompted violence that killed more than a 1000 people. so generally trust in the electoral process has been eroded by these events over the but following not supreme court ruling 5 years ago, there was actually more transparency in the system. this time. one thing in particular that changed is that the, the result form from every single polling station the minute it was transmitted from the polling station to hear the national tally sensor was also made public online at the same time. so anybody could log that log on to the actual commissions web page, download those forms from the about $45000.00 polling stations across the country and tally than themselves. so that's enabled the parties, political parties and media houses and other organizations to do their own tallies and extra degree of transparency rise. great hopes would prevent rigging prevent the disputes and indicate the very beginning. make it easier for anyone to trace it
and prove it in court. but anyway, it seems that extra degree of transparency hasn't managed to prevent a dispute of the results taking place. okay, welcome. thank you so much for that update from outside the election commission center from nairobi. let's cross back to charles hornsby, who's an independent researcher on kenya, politics. he's joining us again from nairobi itself. so you were right, charles hornsby, there certainly has been a delay. and now we know that for kenny and vote, officials say that they reject the results, citing the quote unquote opaque process. what more you're learning about that. nothing more about the, the, the nature of that complaints, it's entirely opaque at the moment. what that complaint is. it would appear to, you know, journalists, observers, and most canyon's the, it was an extremely transparent election. yet the fact that full commission as of all effect to be disowned,
the result which is about to be announced on the on the media, is obviously very worrying for the future. a create a splits, it creates a justification for protest, and it creates the, the basis, obviously for a legal case, but more seriously gray sir. it again brings back into question the electoral commission, which i've been doing such a wonderful job. so we don't know what's wrong, we don't know what the allegation is. nobody really seems to understand what they're complaining about and why it would be opaque. but obviously, it is a very serious moment. and chatham county is, you know, at the day it's now just about to read the results any minute. so, so just for clarity and confirmation, even though these allegations have been put forward, we still expect to hear results on the, on who the winner is. yes, i think that sir, now am deputy president william roots. oh, he's now sitting in the audience ready yet because he's on the stage ready. i would guess they're going to go in the next few minutes. joe county is the only one with
their eyes to wish you the results. he's the, he's the, he's the boss and he's supported by 2 other commissioners was 3 commissioners. a sorry for commissioners. have have defected in some fashion. but we don't really understand why yet. what do you make of the sales that we saw inside the center itself? we're just looking at the latest pictures right now on our screens on, on al jazeera, at the time people there seem to be some scuffles amongst the attendees. the room was the tennessee mio, bursey struck and you know, a senior i b, c, official. i count what do you think will happen on the street? nairobi where you are one, see the results is actually announced. some people may be happy, but there may be some disappointments as well very much so i think if the result goes is pretty much everybody expects it to, which is, you know, they're theresa president routes. i was always going to be some protesting kids to
move and in, you know, some areas of nairobi, the informal settlements, i should say. but this division and the campaign refusing to sign and calling a press conference to denounce everything is going to raise tension and significantly so it's going to be difficult much, i'm afraid. ok, charles hornsby will leave it there for now. thank you so much for speaking to us from nairobi just once again. these are the light pictures from inside the election commission center where things appear to be calm now. but in the past half hour or so, there were scuffles inside the center because presidential results were meant to be announced about 2 hours ago. but there have been delays and officials from right loading us camp have made allegations of rigging. and we've also heard that for can you vote, officials have themselves rejected the results?
they're citing an opaque process. we're going to take a short break on al jazeera, but new car picks up our coverage in just a moment with much more news from kenya. thanks for watching. bye bye. i l. pills square is in the historic heart of tripling. the 19th century architecture in a state of neglect has the ability to law, taurus, whether foreign or liberties experts get the authority and have done nothing to preserve the historical monuments and bring life back to this place. carefully is considered the 2nd most art to logically important city pro mom, look empire after the egyptian capital cairo month story mosque is among some of the structures remaining from that remnants the other years as well are found here . the tripoli. history is overshadowed by a turbulent recent past and
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