as no knowledge from indigenous communities tackle to these environmental catastrophe. we journey across new mexico and meet those will fight to protect their culture and raise awareness of the impacts of climate change and pollution under secret land. first nations frontline native nations voices of survival. phonology my will disrupt is us national security advisor sophistic shifting personnel of donald trump. second to weeks ago won't side of the agendas to a child group of senior officials sharing secret information. is that why he's being moved? for example, going on. this is inside story. the

kind of very welcome to the program on the clock you'll find was ones donald trump's catchphrase in his t v days. but in the case of mike wilts that seems to be shunted sideways or promote to don't think about it, depending on where you sit on the us political fence. the decorated form a military officer, is now the nominated for the united states ambassador to the us in a high profile role, but in an organization that trump has little full wilks wilks own center, i solve for the so called signal guided for more than that in a minute, but was also unpopular among some in trumps in a circle in the circle of mega wing of the republican party. it has hard line positions on russia and on around 2 countries. trump has been keen to forge deals with, to troll cop uh the foreign policy success is so little this have anything to do with his move and what's the wine and significance? we'll try to find out more for my guess shortly. but 1st this report from laura co it's the 1st major cabinet shakeup in donald trump. the 2nd term in office mike

waltz known his hawkish and traditional concept abuse has been removed as national security advisor. he's being also the role of us and bass of the to the un. but most of us attend a senate's committee hearing marco rubio has been named as walters into him replacements. meaning he now holds full titles. secretary of state us talk this. i'm head of usaid, what's came on the screws in the last month for adding janice and editor in chief of the atlantic. jeff goldberg to a group chance on messaging up signal. it would become known a signal gate high level officials. we using the app to discuss us as strikes in yemen, including lang else in the tech con timings targets betty an hour before they launched . donald trump has a history of dismissing people rather quickly if, if they don't meet his expectation on the quick case mike and signal gauge and all

of that there was, she was pretty big free. she was a pretty big problem. and i, personally, i think he owned up to of it's waltz expected to settle on signal gate. a confirmation hearing from the u. n. a bus to the job will likely put a straight back on the hot seats in the finance. he's expected to face intense questioning. from democrats, some of already taken the social media including minnesota governor tim waltz, with pointed remarks like mike quotes has left the chat about trump. number 2 says it's a promotion. so what is it? what go, he's being made in bastards, united nations, which of course, instead of confirmed position, i think you can make a good argument that promotion. but we, we brought michael on to do some serious or forms of the national security council . he has done that. questions are also expected to be raised around the conduct of us secretary of defense, pete heck, seth. he also shed sensitive ministry and to make in, in the group chance,

but then shed more about military strikes in a separate chat with his wife and brothers. donald trump hide both men and stayed quiet off to signal gates. capt tech stepped in this position on defensive bolts, of a good man. his decision not to direct the site. cabinet members is a departure from trump. by refresh tom, which may also signal he wants to show, he had some most settles and stable government, nor hon. elda sarah, inside story. all right, let's take this on. let me introduce you to, i guess 1st stop joining us from new york, john holt williams, who's a reporter, it for him, policy magazine, where he covers us national security and minneapolis, minnesota amy co, republican political strengths, just assemble is matthew prize. a, a former us diplomats and national security council official at the white house. welcome to you o. a me,

i'd like to start with you at your republican political strategies as a say. do you think this is a shrewd move? a quiet way of moving bolts along with, without actually firing it. and yeah, i think you're going to see a lot more than the trumpet ministration in this way. and maybe even with defense secretary hank stuff as well. not, not a move out of the administration, but a move to a better seated job. and i honestly think that ross is better suited for you in the past. there is a former member and he was kind of a point to put into a position to be staffer and i think that's sometimes not a move that former members make very well. and i, i think that behind the scenes he wasn't suited as well for that role. and so they found a different position for very well. and we still got to be confirmed for that role, of course. but we'll come on to that in a minute. matthew, why do you think donald trump waited until now? well, i think initially he didn't want it to look like, uh, it's laura numerous at a scout. what was sacrificed um, you know,

president trump went through such turmoil in his 1st administration when his, his initial national security advisor, michael flint, as we recall was fired after just 3 weeks. and the president trump went through 3 more national security advisers. so i think president trump didn't want to get off in his 2nd term on the same foot as suggesting there's, he had made some bad personnel choices perhaps, and that there was chaos within the white house. okay, john, what's your view of the apartment, the else i'm say it's the wrong man and the secretary of defense at hex. if he was the one who acted most callously by telling even his family about operational plans, perhaps in his head should have wrote. yeah, it definitely seems like mike was uh, bore the brunt of the blame here with the administration. that could be because he was already uh, you know, kind of unpopular in the white house. he was not working well with other aids apparently. um, susie whiles, the chief of staff found him quite dismissive,

so he already had problems prior to the signal gate scandal. so, so it kind of made him an easy person to blame for this rather than heads up, even though as you said, it was headsets who shared the most sensitive information within this chat. yes, it was. waltz, restarted the check. yes, it was was accidentally included jeff goldberg, but it was heads up who shared very sensitive information on this operation in yemen and not one but 2 signal chats. and this confirmation hearing is going to be very interested in terms of what democrats focus on as are questioning was, will it be going after him or, or will they really lead into, to focus on accessing his role and all of this? i mean, what are your thoughts about the, the secretary of defense hague stuff? do you think that's a, he's, you know, board time. i think uh if this is sort of an example of how things always help diamond and the new trump administration. i think that the very well may be and to

be honest, you know, i agree, i think wald started the chat, he added to a recorder, but the sensitive information that was shared that potentially puts american men and women's lives in danger, was that a secretary hate staff and so i think there still be, well we, i think there's been some accountability still to be held there. all right, so from what you say me, this does not put an end to the affair of signal game. you know, i think of signal gate i, i do agree and there's a, there's a lot of a lot of i incentives are saying that the volts didn't play well within other members of the administration. um, but you know, i, you're also hearing not just signal data, but a lot of chaos coming from the department of defense. a lot of former p types of supporters have come out very vocally in very quickly. so there's the turmoil is really at the department of defense, and i just don't think that the president can ignore that. a for apple. right,

and matthew is pretty evident is we've just been hearing that to within the confirmation hearings for the role of you and then pass to the at the one thing that is absolutely certainly sure. it's a try to come up is signal. great. yeah. what was the question that will come up and, you know, having served in the national security council staff for 4 years and been a us diplomat for 23. it is um, thinkable that you would share classified information no matter what the secretary of defense with all due respect says that was classified information, which aircraft what types when they're gonna deploy their payloads, when the attacks are going to take place. that's some of the most expensive, the national security information that's out there. and it's, it's almost like me when i was in as the staff for one time, i mistakenly brought my cell phone into, into the situation room. you're never supposed to bring your mobile home anywhere near those sensitive discussions. it rang, i was mortified, and my boss turned to me and he said that may have just cost you your next assignment as an investment. so that's how expensive to the use of mobile phones is

when dealing with classified sensitive, national security information they've never should have happened. and it's sick, the fact that it's still going on, or that you know, the tech stuff is still using this, this besides the devices or that my boss was in a cabinet meeting just the other day. all that shows that there's a certain lack of, of, of respect for the need to protect this information because the signal is encrypted communication system, individual telephone can compromise and then you encrypt your doesn't matter at all . right? so john, moving back to worlds moving on. what about this role of you and, and bassett, a as a, as we've just been hearing discussing and still needs to be confirmed. but at trump doesn't have that much relish with united nations. it would seem. so how will bolts himself be perceiving this move? in many ways you can, you can perceive this as a demotion from, as, as you know, that does not put a lot of stock in the united nations. i mean, he's, he's withdrawn from the world health organization. he's withdrawn from the un human

rights council from the parents climate accord. this is not an institution. he has a lot of respect for it and this will means that waltz will be up in new york, not in dc. he will not be in the room with trump is often he will not have you know, direct line to trump is often he will not have trumps here. yes. on paper, this is a very prestigious role. but in the trump administration, i don't see the you in a bass are playing, playing a huge part in shaping policy or, or the administration's interactions with the wider world from likes to pursue, you know, we perceive themselves as a deal makers. he likes to deal with countries directly. he doesn't see the un as, as an important for him for dialogue with the world. so i think that in many ways, yes, this is definitely a demotion for waltz. all right, a question to pace. matthew name and matthew. first, might you say it's a role? he has pretty hawkish chops disney at what will he bring?

do you think to the u. n for him? should he get the job? is a lot these, it is not going to be any great positional change from the united states as the know there won't be any tradition with you in a basset or position is usually prestigious and amazingly fine. you know, it's the position is that you are, you're kind of a mini head of head of diplomacy because every country is represented there. and for most countries the united nations representative is, is the most important foreign policy position. but um for, for the united states, even when the union baset or is a member of the president's cabinet that in bassett, or is not formulating us policies that are basset or is implementing us policy and shaping discussions to help make sure the president's foreign policy, which is formulated by secretary of state by the national security advisor, that security defense, etc, is implemented. so this is, i mean, a much more enjoyable life. mike waltz, maybe because of a very high quality of life in new york. but he will not be a policy maker. i mean,

what do you think it will be just the implementing us policy? which means is what basically parents and what the president month. yeah, and this has been an interesting sort of divide in the, in this administrative than those on the one side that includes 80 vans that want to continue negotiations with. whether it's you create an ukraine or an israel versus sort of the more hawkish, traditional conservative hawks like uh, waltz and ruby, our. and so it ultimately waltz will be the implementer, not the decider. but i don't think this signals a shift in the administration from sort of those 2 schisms. those 2 sides continue the debate and by everything i hear, the president really appreciates, having those kind of 2 sides and those discussions when it comes to uh, talking about foreign policy. but yeah, i think, well it's, it's i, i think it's a very prestigious position. i think was a good move on by the administration,

but he's, it's hard to see. it's not as something where he sort of moved away from the lighthouse deciders. john join away and that briefly. oh, i completely agree. i think there's that to be a major shift in policy here at the end of the day, trump is going to do what trump wants to do. he has the final say, he is a decider. and it's, it's clear that was, wasn't really shaping policy in a major way up until this point. i mean, i think for the last several weeks, a lot of folks have been surprised. you wasn't dismissed sooner, given all the calls cold calls for him to be pushed out. and given the fact that, you know, he was kind of the fall guy for this within the administration. um, but it, it could send some signals to, um, you know, some of us allies might be concerned by this. walter was considered one of the more kind of conventional foreign policy voices in the room. he had more connections to

kind of the neo conservative wing of the republican party. he was a former aid to dick cheney. so he's a very kind of conventional talk a few on foreign policy. so some, some of your satellites might be concerned that he's no longer in the room at the same time. us adversaries might be looking at all of this. and it might be kind of happy to see trumps national security apparatus in disarray between all you know, all the ships happened internally with the national security council. there was a number of age dismissed weeks ago and that that was kind of a sign that wants might be on his way out. but also all the disarray within the pentagon training heads up as well. so it's not just in the white house, it's also dependent on this is i can't ever use that just brings me onto this. now i'm actually because there is another view, isn't that this is not just about signal gate to the administration. wasn't really happy with voltage focused on so the negotiations with the radians of it is not as inclined towards a new cleared deal as perhaps

a trump and steve went cough all about the deal. what do you think about that theory? oh yeah, i think for sure there's a, a real battle going on within the white house. i mean, any talked about the traditional this or now. okay. on like walls or like rubio, or if you can call on that, any administration's foreign policy establishment. and then you've got the mug of people and you've also got the, what are your call the tech ro, billionaires, that are another faction when you but there, there is an intense battle between those traditional us like, well, so rubio and then the mag of folks and uh, i'm sensing for my own contacts in, in the trump administration, that the market people are anticipating now. um, i wanna say cool, but they're really gonna see the positions of power within the white house, not just on the national security council staff, but across the board. so it's sort of like the, the rise of them i guess side over the traditionalist as any side. i mean, president trump likes to have both sides arguing and he likes to be able to choose whatever outcome he wants. and you know, abraham lincoln had his, his famous team of rivals,

but the people who are in the battle are fighting hard. uh and so, yeah, i see, i think from august are going to be essential now for a bit. now you can say, well, marco rubio is one of the traditional se, so got this enormous amount of power and gigantic job responsibilities. there is in the henry kissinger position of both state department or secretary state and a national security advisor. but my instinct tell me, this is the temporary and i think ultimately somebody else is going to move in probably from mca world to, to become a national security advisor. hey, me, how unpopular? what's volts, or is volts amongst the, the mega? well, if you like a mega wing of the apology, i could do you think it's shifting? could it be related directly to you know that his mohawk is down to the negotiations with the wrong and the, and the president's wish to get it deal. as soon as possible. yeah, i, you know, i've heard that i've heard that laura bloomer was instrumental in walls. i think she would like everyone to believe that, but i just don't buy it. i really think it has more to do with susie lyles. i think

it has more to do with the dynamics and signal gate. just tell us about where to see the wells right briefly, who she is. so she is the, she's the chief of staff for the president and she basically runs the show at the white house and, and she understood everything that i'm hearing is that she felt that walter was fairly dismissive of her. and i think that goes to again, members of congress not making great transition to knowing when they are really staff versus in charge of everything. and so i think it has more to do with that. i also think that's signalling by putting mark rubio in that position. this is also trump and his administration saying, well, well this doesn't have to do with the split mark. rubio certainly the more hawkish side of that. and then the additional support approach when it comes to iran or russia. and so i just, i think that now there's talk that would cost was the one that they wanted in the job of national security adviser. and he's not interested. but i think the dance

between the 2 will go on, and i actually think it's good for the administration to have both sides sort of pulling up a discussion as they make these really big uh, global decisions. joan, what do you think about the votes is shifting roles and what it might may not any for a romp and other areas of negotiations because there are plenty in ukraine and gaza . israel china. but again, i don't think it's, we're going to see a major shift in policy here. i, i do think that will also will be, will continue to be a strong advocate for the trumpet ministration policy. i mean, it was very interesting to see him really defend the trumpet, ministration after the, the, the kind of chaotic oval office meeting between trump into lensky, in spite of walter's history of, of kind of giving full throated support to ukraine and being very critical of russia walters is definitely here to be a defender of trump,

to be someone who really backs up the president even if it doesn't necessarily align with the decisions he's previously advocated for. again, i do think that this is something that maybe ukraine is doing nervously. um, you know, seeing someone who is, is more hawkish towards russia who does want to see the administration be a little tougher on russia as are pursuing this piece. deal being pushed out that said ruby on share is very similar perspectives to offs when it comes to russia when it comes to a ron, when it comes to china. so it doesn't necessarily mean that there's a, you know, a starkly different voice getting pushed into the equation or into the room here. i, i really don't see a major shift in policy, but it is a signal of, i think, internal chaos in the truck administration. it's a signal that, you know, i think there's a component of factors that play here. it's a signal that was, wasn't particularly popular within the administration. and it's a signal that from,

you know, who really cares about optics as a, from a reality tv star was, was still mad at waltz over signal gate, which was definitely an embarrassing situation. it continues to be an embarrassing situation and a sort of aside for this administration. okay, matthew. rubio is now doing 4 jobs, including 2 k full time jobs that would be regarded individually as full time job setup site for each day. busy so it's not too much. well, i mean, secretary, rubio is a brilliant man, but it's, it's impossible. i mean, having been, you know, relatively, you know, modest for junior staff member on the national security council staff, there was the most challenging job i've ever had. and to be in charge of the whole thing, which means not only you run this, this big staff inside the white house, but you also advise the president more than anybody else on foreign policy. and you're coordinating all of the us government agencies sharing the meetings of the admins, serial level to try to come up with an agree policy. that easy to unbelievable, huge job. but on top of that to be the lead diplomat. it's, it's, i,

i don't know how you can do it, not to mention, you know, presiding over the dismantling of us, say id and being and that archivist, nobody has that much bandwidth. nobody. so that's why i think, well, it may be really exciting in the beginning to have all the power concentrated in, in one's hands from the perspective of, of, of sector reveal it is not sustainable. and so that's why i believe this, this consolidation is temporary, and i think soon there will be some more from the law going. that's going to take over his national security adviser. hey me. what do you think? does review, have the bandwidth? no, it doesn't have the bandwidth, but what, what we haven't talked about as we talked about, as, you know, is as much as a small guy, is this, the tech gro was, he's kind of stars rising here. i do think it's hard to deny that um that former senator rubio doesn't have the year of the president and the trust of the president . he's been putting these 2 really big positions because he has performed well and obviously the president trust them. and so if anyone's star is rising into this,

it's certainly, it's certainly secretary rubio, it's john the on the president trump the providing question. it seems in for him policy to use be whatever we do. is it good for america? does it make america stronger, richer and safer? but the question is, is it not also the jude see if the world's biggest super power settings in the culture itself? but also to answer the question is what we do good for the security of the world? because in the end that is important for america to i, they absolutely, uh, i, you know, regarding some of the things we're just talking about cuz you know, dismantling usa id. i spoken with a lot of folks in the 8 community who talked about how this is a counter intuitive move for the united states because it breeds instability around the world. when you're not addressing humanitarian crises worldwide. when you're not helping people that are most in need, it, it fosters of crises that lead to migration lead to the types of problems that

trump says he wants to address. you know is often said if you don't want people coming to your country, optum and there's a that that's something that people in the humanitarian sector often advocate for. so yeah, there is that concern that the isolation to swing of the republican party, the mag a wing is being a bit my optic is not seeing the big picture in terms of actually it's, it's not just the ethical thing to do, to pay attention to crises, around the world, it's also just good policy and smart and actually in the long run, a good for us national security to keep an eye on what's going on around the world to be heavily involved in global affairs. and it's, and it's really a major shift from the role that us has played for 80 years in the wake of over 2. i mean, all of these institutions that trump is pushing us away from the un nato, etc. these are our institutions, us played a key role in sounding,

and we're now just seeing a drastic shift away from that. and it's really having already cataclysmic effect or across the house. matthew, on the other hand, trump is certainly working pretty hard. it's administration is working pretty hard to try to secure various deals be ukraine or it doesn't and so forth. yeah, but i think your concern is that it's being done without the requisite understanding of the problem's been from a political perspective from humana care. i perspective it from, from, from, from the strategic perspective in that, you know, it's basically a pair of real estate developers to be crass right. president, trump and steve would cost who want to deal for the sake of the deal rather than an agreement and, and a resolution of these conflicts and terrible wars that can be sustained into the future. they know that the us engagement in resolving is complex or providing humanitarian and economic assistance. yeah. as jonathan, it's not philanthropy itself interests because we're better when the world is,

is more equipment and people are more prosperous. so the big concern is i think that, yeah, this is there are no expertise a pursuing these agreements to get agreements are good that are going to last. i mean, what are your thoughts? do you think all of this? uh, i hesitate to go to chaos, but certainly this, the shifting that's going on it, does it send the world of message that the united states is a consistent, reliable power a to be relied on? well, i think that some shakeup was necessary. i think the u. n. has been problematic and not helpful entity for the us, for the world and very long time. i think that nato, our partners there need to comfortable table that they've been under performing and not, not even reaching the minimum 2 percent floor for very long time. so i don't have any problem with the present, calling those out as a former veteran and russian linguist where i will say on usa i d, that kind of smart diplomacy isn't necessary to make sure that it's not always the military being sent in. and so, you know,

i'm not sure what happens with those agencies and those duties, but they certainly need to continue whether it's under the, the state department or, and other entities. because it's, it is about smart power. and for those, you know, if, whether it's vice president vance or woodcock and that lean more towards negotiation, those that kind of smart policy is what can help you get there, as well as military strength. great conversation, everybody, thanks to you all to john to hold while i go to amy cook and matthew bride. so thanks very much indeed. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again at any time just by visiting our website out there, a dot com. and for further discussion, just go to my facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash j inside story and join the conversation on x. if you like to handle is that a j inside story from 8 o'clock and the whole team here is to 5 the

the hard hitting in to be used. the results of the referendum was 50 and a half percent to $49.00 and a half percent. this is all this the physically impossible, unless there is some serious interference facing realities. what deposit guarantees in series of liability democracy based on the approval and based on the representative home sick and tired of spectrum of the people who wished to have the people represented one and said, thoughts providing on sending these voters or expecting your government to deliver? how do you do? well, 1st of all, i think you have to put in solution. is that what you the story on the talk to how does era i'm friendship, john the award winning program, sharing possible story with to explore and abundance of well trucks programming on how jesse or israel is duty is in judaism,

is israel. many american cheese are raised with a one sided view. what is room? this is our land. that's what was conveyed to us found in the depths of my family's house, but the tide is shifting. as younger jewish americans learn the reality about these rails treatments of the palestinians, i was never in the palestinian house to live barge into one in the middle of the night. it's a military occupation, is ready this episode to announce his era. as if to show this was no mistake, they have a cup to moves in a game and coming to within 10 minutes on board is a chinese photographer taking pictures of us. for nearly an hour i fly alongside us and sometimes above us until we leave the show. by the time we return to manila, this close encounter is become an international incidents coast guard commodore j.

terry a says it's the plain crashed and people have constituted an active role. the strategy of virus to choose the next governments, the cost of living crisis and employment dominate the election. the color that i'm associated, hey, this is out of their life from the also coming, searching for survivors and the dog. is there any attacks on the gaza strip? can at least 17 people, including children, as well, also carried out to attacks across syria, at least 8 as strikes of hit damascus, and other parts of the country. and the trump administration criticizes

a german decision to label the far right a is the party as extremist. germany's foreign ministry fund.