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tv   Newsnight  BBC News  January 18, 2018 11:15pm-12:01am GMT

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if the system is broken. the murder of six—year—old zainab in pakistan has shocked the world. we hearfrom her parents on their fight for justice. is this a watershed moment for pakistan? what is emmanuel macron‘s game? has he charmed does into handing over a0 million pounds —— has he charmed us into handing over £a0 million for a peek at a tapestry and not much else? 0n camera for the first time, woody allen's adopted daughter accuses him of sexual abuse and he denies it again. how is this crazy story of me being brainwashed and coached more believable than what i'm saying about being sexually assaulted by my father? we speak to a writer who has examined the director's very personal archives. good evening. will the demise of carillion be the crash that brings about a fundamental
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change of culture? the failure of carillion has raised ideological and practical questions over what is the best and most economical way to deliver excellence in everything from schools and h52, to hospital services. does what's happened to carillion demonstrate that the system is broken? in order to deal with the immediate problem, the business secretary today chaired the first meeting of a government taskforce, involving business, unions and lenders, to support firms and workers affected by the firm's collapse. how big a deal has outsourcing become? here's our policy editor chris cook. this is university college london hospital, uclh, an nhs hospital where devoted public employees tend the sick. but the building you can see was built by private builders and it's managed by private contractors. it's a parable about how the british state has been changed by our contracting out culture. the key thing to understand
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about outsourcing is the contract. outsourcing a service means someone, somewhere, must write on a sheet of paper what the government wants, what they are willing to pay and the consequences if they don't get it. and if the contractor is a private company it can have brutal consequences because you don't care if they go bust. that's not credibly true if you're dealing with for example an nhs hospital. the thing is, this contractual thinking affects the government's relationships with all sorts of institutions, including those in the public sector. the last major review of nurses' pay was five years ago. in the 1980s the government found that hospitals couldn't tell it how much they spend on one procedure or another. some didn't know how many staff they actually employed. these days they are set clear targets and are paid for the work that they do. they are treated more like a contractor than the hospitals of old.
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jeremy corbyn‘s own borough of islington has found success raising standards in some areas through contracting out but it's also bringing some services back in—house. 15 years ago housing management in islington wasn't in a great place and the council took the decision with the support of residents to put it out to an arm's length organisation. they were much better housing managers and housing management got better but three or four years ago we took a pragmatic decision to bring it back in—house, the right decision and it saved a lot of money and has enabled us to deliver a better service because we don't have duplication, departments of communication and other things. there are serious difficulties with outsourcing. first, contract pricing for years ahead is hard and you can end up overpaying or underpaying, and those errors won't even out. 0utsourcing companies will try to bank overpayments and walk away from underpayments. secondly, outsourcing can lead to fractured services. it's really hard to get public
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contracts that reflect the complexity of what people have to do. i think the public are driven mad by phoning at a public service provider to be told that they can't do a particular thing because it isn't in the contract and they have to phone someone else. what the public want is services that understand they are real human beings with a complex range of needs and issues and can deal with them. contractors sometimes have to borrow money to invest, that happens with the pfi at uclh. but given the state can borrow more cheaply than anybody else, that is a waste of money. fourth, we often see contracts given to companies who have known 11 track —— no relevean track record because their expertise is unimportant. finally, outsourcing often means workplaces where staff work for many different employers, so some employees will find it difficult to progress to other roles where they work, adding to the precariousness of a lot of already
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hard working lives. phil bentley is chief executive of the out sourcing company mighty, which holds many government contracts. this is his first interview since the collapse of carillion. thank you forjoining us. do you want carillion‘s public contracts? we don't have as many public contracts as carillion do with the government but we have some. i think the more important thing is, what can we do to help people who are worried about theirjobs today, the ha rd—working people at carillion? i think the government is doing the right thing to put a stop on it and say, look, let's fund it and continue looking at where we get value from the outsourcers and make sure that the employees working at carillion aren't concerned about how they are going to get paid next week. our thoughts are really with them. but we are an outsourcer, we do clearing, catering, engineering, we do essential services that a lot of clients rely on us for and i think we'll continue to.
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0n the carillion contracts come if you went for them, would you go in at a higher price? would you suffer the rat of the taxpayer? —— would you suffer the wrath of the taxpayer? or a higher price? i think the government are good at getting eight good deal. if you look at the difficulties that carillion have got into, they have difficulties in two areas — big cost overruns on fixed—price contracts, which is a risk transfer. secondly they have a lot of debt and pension deficits as well. that's not the sort of business we are in. the problem is, though, often for outsourcing, companies including yours and others go in at a very low price because the government procurement looks at it and says we need a low price for the taxpayer but that may not be the best deal. i absolutely agree.
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have you ever done that? it isn'tjust about price. we often say that we can't offer a cheaper mop and bucket, we offer a smarter one, we want to know how productive it is. that's where technology can help the industry provide analysis. the point you made in the clip about not knowing how much things cost, we can give our clients real—time information about what's really going on in their premises and they value that. it is still an imprecise science. before you came, mighty sold off care for the elderly for £2. that was before my time. the other point is about risk. if you price the aberdeen bypass at 500 million, that's a fixed—price contract and if it's going to cost you £1 billion you are on the hook for that.
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you'd like to take more of the risk? no, i think we should be making sure that the risk we take is appropriate for the contract and our financial situation. we are £2.2 billion of revenue and we have cost, the sliver of profit is at risk if we don't price contracts properly. but maybe you don't take enough profit to give yourself that contingency that you aren't going to get from a government contract because you are so desperate, as the others are, do get the contract, and that's the problem for outsourcing. i don't think it is, actually. we looked after lloyds bank, vodafone, the cleaning houses of parliament and buckingham palace, these are profitable contracts and they should continue to be because we are expert at what we do, we focus on scale and we understand risk. i hope we get it right more often than not. gas lost the contract
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for looking after prisoners, the government contract, you got it, it was a half billion pound contract. do you think on that contract the danger is that you are going to take too much risk as well? 0bviously gas had a problem, who's to say that you won't? it is capita, to be fair. this contract has been nine months in the gestation. there have been a lot of conversations about risk and pricing. we have caps on the pricing so that if there is a change, and who knows how many immigrants we have, what we are dealing with here. we have two price risk into the contract. what was your profit margin on that contract? quite low but appropriate for the risk. what was it?
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that is commercially, we aren't going to... the danger it is too low. i can tell you that we have looked over the contracts in a lot of detail. we provide services at heathrow and there was a synergy between escorting and heathrow airport where we operate today. you have to look at the business. jeremy corbyn says that the £10 living wage. we are supportive of it and always have been. thank you forjoining us. the murder and rape of six—year—old zainab in pakistan last week provoked outrage in the country and across the world. thousands tweeted their support under the hashtag "justice for zainab." but now investigators think that dna links the man responsible for the horrific killing to attacks on seven other young girls in the same city over the last two and half years. there's now a huge manhunt underway. but why were the authorities seemingly so indifferent until now?
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secunder kermani has been tracing the killings — and has this report from the pakistani city of kasur. 0nce home to one of pakistan's most famous poets, kasur, now a city on edge. it is the story of the murder, rape or assault of at least eight young girls by, it seems, one man in one small part of the city. all of the victims went missing close to their homes. all of their bodies were dumped a few hundred metres away. the eldest was just seven years old. these are the last images of six—year—old zainab alive, being led away by the hand of an unknown man.
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she'd been on her way to a koran class but never turned up. her body was found in this rubbish dump not farfrom her home, five days later. zainab‘s mother proudly shows me her daughter's schoolwork. her parents were in saudi arabia on pilgrimage when she went missing. they arrived back in pakistan to bury her. they believe the police should have done more when zainab first disappeared. at the punjab information technology board, they are helping the police
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hunt down the possible suspects. all the data from close to zainab‘s house as well as cctv footage... they are using mobile phone tracking data, normally used to catch terrorists, to identify the killer and whether he had accomplices. the crime scene where this girl lived, the cctv footage that emerged is about half a kilometre away so there is the issue of transporting the body back to where it was found. it isn't easy to carry a body halfway across the town. was there somebody else helping them ? police have discovered traces of the same dna in a similar cases including zainab‘s. the first is an attempted rape in june, 2015.
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nearly a year later another girl is attacked but survives. last year there was an attack every few months. five girls were killed, one survived. this man's daughter was the first to be murdered. the five—year—old disappeared on his birthday last january. he still has the teddy bear she gave him that morning. he is furious that the killer was never caught. police are now coming the neighbourhood collecting dna samples. they've done over a00 tests already. but the families of many victims believe the police didn't
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properly investigate the previous murders when they first happened. instead they wrongly accused innocent men. one of the most serious allegations we've uncovered is that police carried out the extrajudicial killing of one suspect. perhaps because they thought the court would set him free. perhaps to put an end to the rising public anger. police say this man was identified by a witness and killed trying to escape. but we have been told he was taken into custody and deliberately shot. we have been investigating what happened. a month after the first killing, this man and his five—year—old cousin were playing outside when she was kidnapped. her body was found later that night in a construction site. his memory is understandably vague
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but the family says he showed police it now seems mudasir was not the killer.
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police say they found traces of the same dna on the body of the girl he supposedly murdered on the other victims, including those attacked after he was killed. i put our findings to the regional government. if that is the case, if it has unearthed in such a concrete way in which we have evidence the person who was killed, his dna was not a match and it's related to the same perpetrator, which it is, no we will have a fully fledged enquiry on that. those who are responsible for this extrajudicial killing will not be speared. —— spared. last april, two months after mudasir was killed another girl was raped and killed. another two months later the same happened to a seven—year—old. by the time the body was found last july a clear pattern i began to emerge. all of the girls were found
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in fairly public places. in graveyards, and houses under construction, or in rubbish dumps. the attacker never tried to bury any of them. anger in this city was growing. politicians promised to investigate. but the attacks didn't stop. another young girl was assaulted in november. she is currently in hospital. in zainab‘s school classmates say they will keep her seat empty. parents are being warned to always pick—up and drop—off their children. but there is anger in the city that it has taken so many attacks
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were the authorities to really take action. why wasn't this level of effort we are now seeing when the investigation done before? to be honest i don't have a plausible justification for that. it should have been from day one the manner in which we are doing now. is that not the governments responsibility? it is. so it is a failure? if i keep counting the police operations we were committed to the efforts we made it will not justify it, unless we catch him. the deaths of these young girls is provoking a national debate in pakistan about child abuse. the priority along with reflection is the need to catch this killer before he strikes again. we'rejoined by nadia jamil — who's a pakistani actress and children's rights campaigner good evening to you. good evening. is there a feeling with zainab‘s horrific rape and murder
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we have a moment like that of the indian bus, that it will be taken seriously. the testimony of the audition there was extraordinary, almost complacent. there you are. even now it's not enough, ifeel. paradigm shift happens so subtly and maybe this is it? 2015 when the rapes happened, hundreds and hundreds of rapes reported of children who were raped on camera, at gunpoint, being told to smile or i will shoot you. and these were used to blackmail the families? absolutely. brothers, sisters, families blackmailed. and a ring was exposed, perpetrators were exposed. names were brought out.
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and yet, the lawyer who i worked with over there when i used to go to rehabilitate the children and work with the children, he said, there are a00, 300 that are out there but there are thousands who come to me. but in this one city, this city area, kasur, we now have eight attempted killings, seven of which were successful, one child is in hospital. and it's taken until now to have any kind of concerted effort. why is that? is it a feeling of police, a conservative society, a of government? is it a societal problem that they don't want to discuss this? look... i was 17 when i started working with children. every single day i opened the newspaper since i was 17 and i am a5 now. you read in the newspaper might find raped, dead.
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there are four or five little blurbs everywhere every single day. now suddenly that person has a name, it is zainab. social media has been a difference do you think? yes i think now the apathy which was dormant in our public has pressured the government, and the media, to start taking names, start reporting. and the pressure is on them. is that pressure is also because of social media being global so pressure is being heaped on pakistani authorities which means they try harder? they are petrified. politicians are only interested in power. unite, the civilians, and the civic body of the state, has to put pressure on the politicians to work and earn a power and we have not done that yet. now we are doing it but the point is, will we maintain this pressure? also do you think the state has a capacity to solve these crimes?
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absolutely not. i don't think the state has the capacity... then how do they do it? it is the public who will have to understand that the state is not equipped, it is not delegating to the right people. prevention, law and order, look at kasur, the policemen, i have seen videos of them laughing and mocking the parents whose children were raped. education, empathy, these men are desensitised to a point where it's ridiculous. when you have your marriage, the legal age for marriage in pujara is currently 16. four, five years, what is the difference between 12 and 16? if you are able to have nonconsensual sex with a 16—year—old, because if you marry her you can have nonconsensual sex with her, you can have
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it with a 12—year—old. and then a ten—year—old. and then what is a seven—year—old? so you raise the age of girls who are supposed to be married, you do that, it's a multi pronged operation which needs to be done. education, patriarchy, is the state equipped and well a delegate to the right people? thank you very much indeed. there was no sign of a rolled up bayeux tapestry, which is technically an embroidery, under emmanual macron‘s arm when he arrived for his first uk presidential visit, but it was a sweetener, if a strange one, given the tapestry‘s subject matter. but the real "give" at least initially seems to be on our side — £aa million for better border security at calais, in return for uk checks on their side of the channel. the mood music between the two countries ahead of brexit may be positive but the message from the visit of the french president is he is now the main player in the eu. theresa may kicked off the press conference with a gesture
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in a second language. president macron, je suis tres heureux de vous accueillir aujourd'hui pour votre premiere visite au royaume—uni en tant que president. so what did we learn from the may—macron joint press conference? 0ur diplomatic editor mark urban and our political editor nick watt are here and they've both picked a highlight. you had theresa may reaching out in french which was more similar to ted heath rather than tony blair. trying to revive the entente cordiale because theresa may wants to show that whilst the uk is leaving the eu it is not leaving europe, and this was the response. translation: i want to make sure that the single market is preserved because that's very much at the heart of the european union. so the choice is on the british side, not on my side. but they can have the no differentiated access to the financial services,
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if you want access to the single market, including the financial services, be my guest, but that means you need to contribute to the budget and acknowledge the jurisdiction, the europeanjurisdiction. that was the absolutely fundamentalist eu position on access to, for the financial services to the single market after brexit. as the president said, be my guest, you can have access if you observe the rules which means paying into the budget and excepting the jurisdiction of the european court ofjustice. if you cannot accept that, he is saying, then you are looking at a deal along the lines of canada and with canada there is no access for services. important to say theresa may did say at the press conference that she is confident the uk will be able to get a deal, she has been calling it a pistol deal, not an off—the—shelf deal which will cover goods and services.
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and emmanuel macron was aware of his audience behind him with the rest of the eu, from your point as double editor what was the most important thing? everyone expected security cooperation is a naturalfor the uk and we got more details on that, in and things like that. but people were saying britain voted for brexit you could forget having the border at calais, it will be moved to dover and a french reporter pointed out to the french president that he was one of those people. he said you were saying the border was moving so why have you changed your mind and signed this treaty today extending it, putting more money into it and effectively investing into the future of the border? he gave some predictable, i suppose you could say, reasons about the humanitarian aspect of it but listen closely to what he goes on to say in this clip. translation: i think this treaty
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will very much enable us both to have a more human approach to these people. it will be efficient and also preserve the quality of thisjoint treaty. there is also the economic aspect of this treaty. like the prime minister said, on both sides of the border we want to continue develop our trade, economic contracts. there is a lot of business to be done and we have businesses on both sides so it's to that effect that we need a very safe border. some people were saying this is all about the people and then he uses it to talk about trade and economic cooperation and his hopes for deepening economic cooperation in all sorts of areas. you might say that's the sort of thing people say at summits. it doesn't cost anything. but let's be honest, we are now going into the seediest trading aspects of the brexit talks and some people in the commission might have preferred him not to be explicit about that. —— serious.
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if you're talking, do you think he was off script and freelancing or wasn't very well worked out? i think what is inevitable is that when you have leader to lead engagements like this they will talk about it. this is where some people in the foreign office, on the british side and in the department for exiting the eu as well believe they can open up some latitude and differences between the 27 members and why it's so important from eu perspective, and he paid some, he said we only have one negotiator on this so it shows a sense of all that is. so in that sense, on that reading was at quite a win for theresa may? is that going to continue as more eu leaders trot over the next you to see her? as far as goods are concerned, it sounds like the french are up for a deal. there is a lot of pressure on macron to get a deal on goods. there is a lot of thought that
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you may find it in the future negotiation that there is an early deal on goods but services, the largest part of the uk economy, that might be a different story. thank you forjoining us. "he's been lying and he's been lying for so long." woody allen's adopted daughter dylan farrow spoke on camera to cbs for the first time today about the sexual abuse she claims she suffered at the hands of her father 25 years ago. she spoke in detail of what she says happened to her when she was seven years old. allen has repeatedly denied the allegation, most recently today, but sentiment against the veteran director has grown in recent months, with several actors distancing themselves from him, or donating their earnings from his films to sexual harassment groups. the latest, in the last week, is rebecca hall who starred in vicky christina barcelona and in allen's latest film. in a moment i'll speak
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to the journalist richard morgan and tess rafferty, a writer and activist. but first here is an extract from dylan farrow‘s cbs interview this morning. what i don't understand is, how is this crazy story of me being brainwashed and coached more believable than what i'm saying about being sexually assaulted by my father? because your mother was very angry, so that she would try and coach you, try and get you to turn against your father. except every step of the way, my mother has only encouraged me to tell the truth, she's never coached me. i wanted to play a clip from 60 minutes, an interview he did at the time, where he was asked about that incident. are you ok with looking at it? you 0k? isn't it illogical that i'm going to, at the height of a very bitter and acrimonious custody fight, drive up to connecticut, where nobody likes me, i'm in a house full of enemies... i mean, mia was so enraged at me
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and she had got all of the kids to be angry at me, that i'm going to drive up there and suddenly, on visitation, pick this moment in my life to become a child molester? it'sjust incredible. if i wanted to be a child molester, i had many opportunities in the past. i could have quietly made a custody settlement with mia in some way and done it in the future. you know, it's so insane. earlier i spoke to the journalist richard morgan, and tess rafferty, a writer, comedian and activist, who created the take back the workplace march. these allegations were first made in 1992, so i started by asking tess rafferty why dylan farrow might have chosen to speak out again on tv now. i can't speak to that. i think she said in her interview that she thought she needed to say it, she wanted to take her me too moment, notjust write about it but come forward, maybe
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seeing her speaking about it may make a difference for them. she expresses, and i can only imagine the frustration in seeing these women coming forward and telling stories and being believed and men as well coming forward telling their stories, and people are still sceptical about her, people continue to work with woody allen despite her story from which she has never wavered. on the other hand, woody allen has never been in a court of law, these allegations have been denied. in a sense you can say that the danger is, richard morgan, that we want victims to come forward of course but the court of public opinion can be quite a dangerous thing. the fact that it is a public opinion is important because it is important to remember that dylan farrow is not a celebrity, she isn't famous
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or powerful, she is the child of rich and powerful people which is a lot of pressure to live up to. she may not feel so rich, comfortable or empowered to speak up, which may be part of her delay but it is something to remember about why people choose to speak up down the road and not immediately. the idea that somebody should speak up immediately after, in the aftermath of a crisis, is a little bit of an unfair expectation. and she was only seven. right. she's making allegations about what happened when she was only seven. and i want to say that she did speak up when she was seven, she told her mother what happened. interesting point you make about, she's not a famous person, she is the child of celebrities, which in a way makes harder for her to speak up because it is the adopted father
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who is in the limelight, who has had many people working with him all over the world, famous actors and actresses, so for her, in a way, that must have been quite difficult. yeah i think it looked incredibly difficult and i think she's very brave for what she did and continuing to put her story out there when so many people who readily believe every other story are discounting hers by continuing to work with her father. richard morgan, you have gone through the archive, a very personal archive that woody allen has put in princeton university, 56 boxes, i think, you've been through everything. what were you researching? he is an unparalleled artistic genius, there is no one like him in art alive today. i wanted to get a sense of that creative process, how someone can be at the forefront
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of the avant—garde for many decades, to look into his thinking. it is like leonardo da vinci's notebooks or shakespeare's diary. you were surprised by what you found? yeah, i was surprised by the persistence of the imagery. he really obsesses about very young women, 18 years old, 19 years old. there is one point where he writes in notes, this college student should the maybe 17, 18, 19, but there is no thought about that to any of the male characters. he is very fixated specifically an 18—year—old women and sometimes younger than that. it is him challenging... it is the bare minimum of legality. and he knows that the public can
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view these, he knows that these boxes can be examined? this is the weird thing. his defense against dylan farrow's accusations, what kind of person would do that? why would any rational person do that? also, why would any rational person writes their darkest sexual fantasies over the decades and submit it to a library for public perusal? or put it on film. i wonder if you think that a film like manhattan could ever be made now? gosh, i hope not.
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i certainly think there would be a lot of scrutiny about it and i hope it wouldn't be made because you know, in many states, having sacks with a woman under 18 —— having sex with a woman under 18 is considered statutory rape. we think of it as... ..some sort of male fantasy. i don't know if he was in his a0s, it was a 30—year—old age difference, the idea of him dating a 17—year—old girl, not thinking it is wildly inappropriate and yet it is a crime in many places. whatever comes out of this tv interview, do you think woody allen's career is now over? i think woody allen's career is going to be a series of people asking anyone who works with him why they have worked with woody allen. thank you forjoining us.
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and before we go time for a quick viewsnight. tonight, masha gessen, new yorker writer and author of the future is history: how totalitarianism reclaimed russia, who argues that opponents of donald trump are fooling themselves if they think the russia investigation is a magic bullet to remove the president. that's all we have time for. mark urban is here tomorrrow. goodnight. the stormy area of low pressure that brought strong winds earlier today is over in pollen at the moment but the wind is easing. a gust of 83 miles an hour across eastern england but the focus going into friday is to do with these snow showers working in across scotland. this
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area, a little cold front of the trough will pepper those snow showers to it arrives towards the end of the night and into rush—hour on friday morning to further significant accumulation of snow in western scotland and it could be one of those mornings we eat you will need to check the condition of the road where you live before heading out and allow some extra time. mind you, not the only place that will see show, you, not the only place that will see snow, 20 snow showers coming and going across the north of island. england wales, largely dry with a few isolated showers across wales and perhaps a look of sleet and hail. many have a dry and sunny start to the day, temperatures around freezing but feeling cold on the account of strong wind. friday morning we could be in for another speu morning we could be in for another spell of disruptive snow, at least for a spell of disruptive snow, at least fora time, in spell of disruptive snow, at least for a time, in western scotland as those snow showers clumped together to the majority of the showers will be across scotland and northern ireland, working in across the
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cumbrian fels, and the pennines. wintry showers elsewhere but not amounting to a great deal. wherever you are, it will feel cold because of the wind,. even in the sunshine it will feel like temperatures are not far above freezing. a change in the weather through friday evening. it will try to poke into the south of the uk, and bring a band of rain. uncertainty as to how far north it will get but it could get close enough to mix with some cold there. there is a potentialfor snow enough to mix with some cold there. there is a potential for snow across the high ground of southern wales. perhaps a little bit across southern counties of england as well. there is uncertainty with there. further north, cold and frosty and icy as well. on saturday, a mixture of rain with and hail snow. a decent they we re with and hail snow. a decent they were sunshine, showers the scotland and northern ireland. another cold there. sunday, more changes. another band of rain will come off the
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atla ntic of band of rain will come off the atlantic of bumping into the cold air. smell of —— spell of heavy snow fog while and temperatures will eventually reach double figures across the west. milder weather is on the way and it will feel a lot milder next week. welcome to newsday. i'm sharanjit leyl in singapore. the headlines: what lies ahead for our ever—warming planet? scientists say last year was one of the hottest years recorded on earth — even without el nino. as the two koreas announce plans to march under a single flag at the winter olympics, we speak to north korean skiers hoping to qualify for the paralympics in march. i'm kasia madera in london. also in the programme: can the us avoid a government shutdown? politicians have until midnight friday to agree legislation preventing a funding freeze. and a matrimonial blessing in the skies. the pope marries two flight attendants on the papal plane.
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