tv Brexitcast BBC News April 2, 2018 10:30am-11:01am BST
this is bbc news — our latest headlines. there is a new warning from health staff that the nhs in england is likely to face a "year—round crisis", as this winter's pressures extend into the summer. two men have died on the m62 near bradford, after a car was driven on the wrong side of the road. one man has been arrested. the director of public prosecutions alison saunders is to stand down in october — she has called any criticism to the crown prosecution service an "insult" to its staff. now on bbc news it's time for a special audience edition of brexitcast. hello. it is adam fleming. i'm in london. with chris mason. we thought we would do our usual little nerdy podcast. in this cupboard. except it's not a cupboard. we are here in the bbc radio theatre with 300 friends. applause. hello everyone!
and of course laura and katya are here too! hello! hi! and the reason we are doing it is because it is about a year to go to a brexit, so welcome to brexitcast: the arena spectacular. brexitcast, from bbc 5 live and bbc news. brexit means brexit. breaking up is hard. if people voted, they need to get on with it. a process which i can only describe as a dog's brexit. brexit means brexit. but what does brexit mean? hello, brexitcastsers. welcome to — well, just another edition of our podcast — except this time we're in the bbc radio theatre with a studio audience of around 300. the extraordinary thing — and i don't know if you guys feel the same — but we four are meant to be used to go on the television and radio, and that notion that people are watching and listening. but it is quite something else when people are actually in front of us, as opposed to imagining that you might be turning off or yawning or throwing things at the television — you're actually here!
actually, i spotted all of our bosses sitting on a balcony. noo! hello! and we are being watched on bbc world news, bbc news channel, listened to by the regular listeners of the podcast, and also being listened to by an audience on 5 live as well, so welcome everyone. we hope. i don't have a sit in these chairs. normally when i record the pod cast, and sitting back like this. just slouched. just do it! so i want to involve you guys in the audience a bit. that unfortunately means audience participation. so where isjoey, joey, our colleague? where are you, joey? joey is one of our researchers, who has been busy with the world's biggest felt—tipped pen, writing out brexit cliches on massive pieces of card. so i thought, any time anyone of us says one of these phrases... 0r anyone says! ..yeah, joey is there hold of the card and the whole audience is going to read what it says. you get the concept? so let's practice.
so, katya, when will we have certainty on the process? what does michel barnier say? the thing is, adam, whatever michel barnier and david davis says, and whatever is agreed today, the thing is nothing is... all: nothing is agreed tell everything is agreed! well done! yes. so it is a year or so to go until brexit day, on the 29th of march 2019. i think, shall we speak to somebody in the audience? i thinkjosh has a question. good, josh. this is where i stand up, walk around here, and walk around with max the cameraman. where is josh? hellojosh. nice yellow shirt! um, what's your question for the panel and the audience? i have two, actually. firstly, in the first year of the brexit process, what was the most significant moment for you asjournalists, or for brexit, and the second is,
adam, what's the secret of creating a good binder? laughter. no, will be here til christmas at least! good questions, josh, particularly the first one. laura, for you? off the top of my head, i would say the election, because it changed the balance of power in parliament, and give hope to remainers that was not necessarily there, that they might be able to slow down or potentially, for a minority of them, try to stop the process, because theresa may's authority had drained away. but i actually think the most important moment, for me, um, anyway, was the mansion house speech. it was meant to be the newcastle speech but was changed for snow. because it was the first time that theresa may stood up and said that her party, to the public, and also to the eu, that nobody was going to get everything they want. and i know i have to compromise. and we spoke about this on brexitcast and the news and everywhere.
there were always do that to be compromises, and it was not until that moment that theresa may admitted to that. and it changed something in the political water, for me. you know, we are journalists, so we never keep to the rules. biggest moment, there are lots. i think, symbolically, when the uk's ambassador to the eu delivered the letter in brussels, to donald tusk, who sort of represents the 27 eu member states, in brussels, and that triggered the formal process of brexit negotiations, the article 50 process. so that was a big moment. i think what happened just now over russia and the salisbury poisoning was another big moment. yeah. that shows how much the eu wants to stay close to the uk after brexit. rhetoric aside and negotiations aside, this is a clear message about what the eu's intent is. you know, it wasn't just out of solidarity with the uk, of course. the eu 27 are very worried in a wider way about russia. salisbury, though, felt very close to home for them. and as we know, they want to make
sure that there is a close security deal with the uk after brexit, despite all talk of cherry picking and so on. joey, joey, joey! quick! all: cherry picking! or as i like to say, as it is pronounced by some abroad, "sherry picking. " a key moment for me was speaking to — um, the secret squirrel contacts, we like to talk about, and he said to me, i am actually not to speak to you on this evening, katya, because i don't want the brexit negotiations to happen to you your colleague, laura, and that was really interesting, i mean, that was interesting. because the two sides were not talking. they were not communicating. they did not want to communicate through us, if you like. and that is fascinating. yes, were certainly moments where it people were, well, you know, we can't go there, because that could influence negotiations.
the two sides — they might not want to admit it — but they obsessively look at what the other is saying, and over the tweets. particularly your binder pictures. can i tell you, instead of my best moment, my worst? a few weeks ago, i'd bumped into michel barnier at a st patrick's day party. aww. .. here we go. so sweet... he said, where your cameras, where are your cameras? and i said, michel barnier, "i'm here to get drunk." and instantly regretted it. did he buy you a drink? the drinks were all free. where were you? the irish embassy st patrick's day party. that's the — that's the soft power of the irish government. it hasn't affected my reporting. i have had plenty of drinks at the british embassy too. now, chris, i want you to go find henry eaglesfield. where are you? he's down here.
i'll go... so slick, isn't it? as an 18—year—old, i was unable to vote in the election or referendum. is it likely that i will have a say on brexit either by election or referendum before we leave the european union? the short answer is, i think i probably not but i would not rule anything out. it does not feel that way right now unless something unexpected happens, but i would not rule anything out, because politics has been volatile, but it does not feel that way now. but there is a concerted campaign with some powerful voices who are pushing it. and the eu is very... yes, they'd be... yeah, they would like... they have never hidden the fact that they believe brexit is a terrible thing. they don't agree with those in the uk that believe it is a chance for the future. they say over and over again that they think it is a lose—lose agreement. but they think the uk will lose most of all. a bit like animal farm, everybody is a loser, but some lose more than others.
that is very much the uk. but i do have to point out that they are realists. so this sort of conspiracy idea that the eu is plotting to have another referendum is not something that you come across. you know, they say, you know, emmanuel macron, "any chance you could change your mind, the door is open." and no, we won't sing abba right now. but they really believe it is happening and is continuing. and as we go into this next stage of negotiations, you have both sides looking for a fair brexit. we should have a card for that, that is the new one, "fair brexit" or "pragmatic brexit". but of course, both sides, and very much the eu, will look after their side first. and what is your perspective when you talk to your mates about what they say about that sense of not having had a say in this huge decision that has been taken that will have ramifications for a long time, and you guys didn't get a say? a lot of my friends would
have voted to remain. and it feels that we don't have a say when we are the youngest generation and we have not had a say, and everyone in my school will grow up not having had a say in what is a really big decision for the country. let's hear from someone just as passionate but on the other side of the argument. sophiejervis, where are you? go speak to her. i almost ran past her as well! you look like you are proposing. and she's come dressed for the occasion. back to brexit, what is your question? yep, so i think the likes ofjohn major saying we don't have any leverage in decisions, and tony blair sort of holding out for a second referendum actually undermines our position in negotiations. i wondered if you agree. certainly some in
cabinet think that. and some people here... so on the day afterjohn major's, i was talking to somebody from cabinet who is gnashing their teeth. and they said "doesn't he get it at any time in that sort of position says something like this, it makes it harder for us?" but i think there is a sense of a group, and there is a campaign and a group of people who are kind of co—ordinating to — maybe not overturn it, but maybe put the brakes on in a different way. for them, it is a greater cause than their party. it is an interesting thing that we have seen since the referendum, is that politics is split down leave and remain lines. party lines are not what they were. that has made the commons a little unwhippable, to use that ridiculous westminster word that if you aren't a nerd that makes you think "what is that about?" i think it is understandable
that people think that, and it is not necessarily remain—tending people this way, or rather, leave—tending people thinking that way either. so we are joined in the radio theatre by a germanjournalist working in london. what is it like reporting all this stuff, and brits being emotional about the eu, for a german audience? surprisingly, our audience is still very, very interested in brexit. people look at this and wonder what is going on. if you look at what people comment on our report, it is split. a lot of german readers — users — actually think brexit might be a good idea. a good idea for germany orforthe uk? good for germany. there is a lot of euroscepticism in germany. in 2016, there was honest grief that the brits were leaving, but now i think it won't make much
of a difference whatjohn major says and what tony blair says when it comes down to negotiations, because now they look at this as a factual thing, and it is the nitty—gritty of rules and autonomy. as we get into the details about how the customs union works, what that directive is, how the fishing quotas will look — do you get much of that information, orjust the big picture stuff? that is an interesting question. in germany, we have been going into the nitty—gritty of the european union for20, 30, or40 years. every morning, i get a press review about what is happening in brussels, and it is 35 pages of all the little stuff, fishery, technology, digital, whatever. so germans are pretty much informed about what the european union is, so they don't need to know now, i'm afraid. where is anna carruthers and her amazing nails?
is that it with the nails? anna does brexit nail art, and if you are a stranger to that, it is a massive thing, isn't it? it is massive on this broadcast now, thanks to you. what is your question? what are likely to be the main differences, if any, between the border arrangements between northern ireland and gibraltar, and how are the irish and spanish governments going to approach negotiations differently? i think the honest answer is, we do not know. there is nothing wrong with saying that. because, because... joey... all: nothing is agreed until everything is agreed! but i think they are happening in two different — they are happening in parallel ratherthan being... spain and the uk are talking about gibraltar. speaks in an affected spanish accent: gibraltar! and they are, that is a bilateral, kind of — i don't know that it is technically bilateral, but it is a twin track
process with the spanish in the uk trying to work it out. they say it will be fixed and it will be sorted, don't worry, it will not be an issue. of course, it's hanging around as one of the possible damocles' swords that could crash down and cause problems at crunch time. it is a separate thing. the other process, we have now got the commission in ireland and the uk having their own little triangle or triptych, i suppose, with their own little talks parallel to the process... which they were not allowed to do until now. it is only now that they are able to do anything. the difference is that i think the eu 26, in this case, and the heads of the eu institutions, are 150% behind the irish government, and they mean it when they say the eu have to be happy with this arrangement. they take the good friday agreement very seriously, and that is a very real concern. for spain, it is kind of more of a national pride issue,
and it is seen as such. it is used by the spanish prime minister for domestic reasons, and if he were to use this, and to put into peril an agreement that the eu very much wants, notjust the uk, then you can expect the weight of the 26 to come bearing down on rajoy, i think. but the interesting thing is that we have had a lot of political heat around the irish border question, and yet, up to now, the gibraltar question, yes, different, has not really forced its way into the discussion. it nearly did, though, didn't it? i think a lot of brexit, it is economic arguments. when it comes to fishing, it is people's livelihoods. of course, i am not belittling that. what i mean is that when it comes to the irish border situation, people remember the troubles. it is about peace. it is about violence. and i think that is what catapults the irish issue into a status of its own. the other thing is,
it's a serious point, no one once in any way wants to be seen to be the politician that might tip the balance towards going back to a much more dangerous and unhappy time. we are going to get another question. chris, do the leg work. where is elliott? you have matching hoodies! hug a hoodie! he's already proposed to someone. what is your question i have two questions. i am from believing brexit, i've got to give us a plug, as a mixed—race brexit folder i was deeply disgusted and offended by the leader
of the lib dems. can someone educate vince cable when we voted to leave, it means having more diversity and being open to more inclusive immigration systems. vince cable is the leader of a small lyrical party, i think they felt in retrospect that he was maybe a bit too sharp with some of his language but i think what you key in two, one
of the things that the brexit campaign was, full of lots and lots of different strands, for a lot of people it was about immigration, everybody will remember the nigel farage controversial poster that he stood in front of with the breaking point slogan. i know lots of brexiteers and people we met around the country were cross about that, appalled by that, they thought that was crossing a line, not what wrexham was about bad for them but i think it's also true immigration for lots of people was a motivating factor. —— lots of people was a motivating factor. — — not lots of people was a motivating factor. —— not what brexit was about. i think it's whether immigration is used as a bargaining chip, actually. because amber rudd has been noticeably quiet about immigration
figures and about promises to bring down immigration. it's thought very possible that, during the negotiation process, which will continue past a year from now — and that's something we haven't said yet. brexitcast will go on forever. and this is something to point out. firstly, we say it is a year until brexit. but of course, there has been an implementation and transition period agreed, if all goes ahead. but it will be interesting to see, because you have so many eu countries — poland, the czech republic, slovakia, for example, they have a lot of their citizens living in the uk. they have other citizens who want to come to the uk. spain also, is another country, italy another country. so it's possible, it's thought possible, that the government may use some kind of eu immigration quotas as a bargaining chip. it is out there, anyway. i have to ask you, elliott, picking up on the conversation around vince cable, and those remarks which will have so annoyed some people, and perhaps have appealed to others — how often, when you're in conversation with mates, does the issue of brexit come up, and then how often does it become very divisive? in other words, the kind of thing where leavers and remainers are at each other‘s throats?
some of my friends voted to leave, some didn't vote, some voted to remain, and we debate it. i obviously have my point of view, and one thing i try and get across is, like i said, we voted to be more inclusive. so at the moment, we have a migration system which favours people predominantly of one race, from one continent. we voted to be more open, to have more people from more races, from more continents, but for it to favour people not based on their ability, fairness on their skill level, not fairness in terms of their skin colour, which is what we currently have right now. and if my friends ever do go off, i do always make that point to them, and then they usually agree that i'm right. it is really interesting, though, because i can see a couple of people in the audience really shaking their heads at that. and i think one of the difficult things for the politicians, as they have tried to get this process going, is that people voted for all sorts of different reasons. people who voted to leave voted for all sorts of different motivations, so the politicians have been trying to kind of wrangle with that and grapple with that.
theresa may decided on her definition of what people had voted for, which means controls on immigration, leaving the european court, yada, yada, yada. but from a policy point of view, it's so different than "here is a general election, here is our manifesto, we will do these things." there was a yes/no question about a massive diplomatic, political, emotional relationship. and we remember where borisjohnson and michael gove did look like they were running an election campaign, because they made buses of policies. and they loved it, but they didn't think they were going to win. next question is from stephen hurley. run, run, run! you're young. you'll love this question. stephen, what is your question? as europe's finest cake aficionado, which of the brexit suspects would bake the best cake, and what would it be? that is a great question. give us some names.
juncker, may, merkel. .. wasn't angela merkel a chemist? so she would have it all. she'd have all the temperatures really precisely worked out and everything. also, she is called mutti, and muttis bake strudels and things. and also, i think theresa may's cake would have a lot of wheat in it. what was itjust before christmas about delia smith? she does delia smith goose on christmas day. one of the things that she really likes in interviews, that she does personally. i'm interviewing her tomorrow, and i might ask, shall i? i'll ask her. didn't david davis work for a sugar company? he did, and he has seven teaspoons of sugar in his cup of tea.
keep on spooning them in, he said to me once, until they don't dissolve. disgusting. so i don't know. corbyn does jam? i don't think michel barnier is a very bakey person. he has a piece of steamed fish. you know what's terrible, the cake shop in the austrian cafe. not a strudel in sight. also, laura, you had a big milestone of your own at the summit. what did i do? you went to kitty's for the first time. not for the first time. you told me it was the first time. this is the irish pub immediately opposite the european commission, and also the bbc bureau. and the story changed, and we had to start working again.
we had finished the day at 11:30 brussels time, and then the story about the diplomatic expulsions started to move on, so we ended up working until about 2:00. but we had been for one drink. i had been, but a long time ago. i think, when i was 18. every good night ends with a party game, doesn't it? so me and chris have got... you know that one when you put a stupid thing in your mouth which means you can't speak properly? we're going to put these horrible things in our mouth. why would you want to do that in front of anyone else? then we are going to say brexit buzzwords and brexit vips and you have to work out what we are saying. juncker. mutual recognition. well done, who was that? a prize for the audience member right there. very good, take a bow. stefaan de rynck, he's one
of michel barnier's team. he listens. david davis? no. wow, that is proper specialist knowledge. right, 0k. i'm taking this out because i think it's time to say thank you to everyone for being in the audience, and thank you to everyone who was watching as well. this is brexitcast, the arena spectacular. hello. it's a bank holiday, you expect rain, we add in some snow.
hello. it's a bank holiday, you expect rain, we add in some snow! fair bit through this morning especially through northern england. this was the scene in west yorkshire, more to come, the reason we have snow, cold air and this system running into it. some snow on the northern edge, to the south, the areas milder, mixture of rain, sleet, over the highest hills. warnings in place for snow during the day, northern ireland, england, into central and southern parts of scotland. behind it, mostly rain, pushing its way northwards. behind it, brighter skies, some sunshine, heavy and thundery showers, further north this system is bumping into cold air, we are concerned for snow. pushing its way further north, over at the tops of the hills, 5—15 centimetres, snow at lower levels, travel disruption likely. a fine line between cold and mild are, as
the snow pushes northwards, turning increasingly to rain through the midlands, southern parts of northern england, snow for scotland and northern ireland. highs of li—sd, further south into double figures, maximum of a0 team for the channel islands. the band of snow pushing north, continuing across northern ireland and scotland, behind it, milderfor england ireland and scotland, behind it, milder for england and wales, showers around, temperatures between 7-10d. 1-2 in the showers around, temperatures between 7—10d. 1—2 in the far north of scotland, you could see icy stretches. you can see the definition between the mild and cold air, pushing northwards over the next couple of days, some snow in the morning tomorrow. easing, further south, cloudy and blustery, some heavy showers merging to give longer spells of rain, some sunshine, temperatures 1a or 15 degrees, still on the cold side for scotland, a—5d. wednesday, area of
low pressure is spiralling across the uk, further chevre speeding in, and other unsettled, breezy day, showers will never be too far away, they could merge to give longer spells of rain, the chance of snow for the far north of scotland. temperature wise wednesday, into double figures across much of the country, 10—13d, by the end that we, temperatures into the high teens. goodbye. this is bbc news. the headlines... doctors warn the nhs is facing a year round crisis — with claims the pressures of winter look set to continue over the summer this is a congested system, a result of chronic lack of resources, of doctors, staff, nurses, a lack of beds and social care, and it has now just hit a head. the director of public prosecutions, alison saunders, will stand down in october after a series of recent controversies the m62 — near bradford — re—opens after a crash which killed two people.