tv Extra Time BBC News June 21, 2019 12:30am-1:01am BST
news. resident trump says he finds it hard to believe iran would have shot down a surveillance drone but he insists it was a very bad mistake. us insists it's drone was over international waters when was targeted. iran disagrees, saying it was brought down when it came inside iranian territory. hong kong is bracing for another round of demonstrations after the government failed to respond to protesters demands. in this story is trending on bbc .com. a colourful display of solidarity in new york's times square. drag queens with a 1.2 mile long for the lower to commemorate the stonewall uprising.
now bbc news, it is extra time with rob bonnet. extra time today comes from newmarket, on the east of england, otherwise known as the headquarters of britain's flat racing industry, and that's because over 70 licensed trainers are based here. and the most eminent of them all isjohn gosden, who has over 3000 winners to his name and experience stretching back to the late 1970s in california, where he trained horses for, amongst others, the film stars elizabeth taylor and cary grant. he is also very much a man who lives in the present, as the racing industry grapples with its current issues.
john gosden, welcome to extra time. simple question, i suppose there could be a half—hour answer to this, but let's see if we can do it slightly shorter than that, what makes a good trainer? i think you have to have an appreciation of the horses around you and the people around you, and i think you have to be very sensitive to trying to blend all of them together, to make sure you're all going in the same direction together, and very much, to that extent, it is a matter of feel. it is a matter of knowing when to go forward, when to pause, went to go back, when to change an idea. and probably not being too rigid in what you want to do. i always remember asking the same question to pat riley,
who was the coach for the los angeles lakers, and he used to be at hollywood park for the races in the afternoon, and then we would go, the jockeys and i would maybe go hand a quick, light supper and go and watch the los angeles lakers play in the forum. this was an amazing team, magicjohnson, kareem abdul—jabbar, cooper, byron scott, wonderful players, and they were the best anywhere. and you go and watch these sort of seven foot, six foot ten ballet dancers, virtually, this amazing athleticism. and i remember asking pat riley, it must be so easy with players like this. he said, john, trying to get them to play as a team, this is the hardest thing. sometimes they come in and they are bringing their private problems in, and then so—and—so is not
talking to so—and—so. he said when you are on the road a lot, it is not easy. so the one thing you learn is to give and take, feel the best way to go, and then be clear where you are going, and not be frightened of shifting your plans, you know. don't look like you are someone who second guesses yourself all the time. you're not making it up as you go along, though, surely. i think you are very clear where you're trying to go and do, 0k? but you don't necessarily hit people over the head with it. you don't go forcing it. people have got to come with you. same in politics. you have to persuade, if you like, by your actions, by your plans. doesn't mean you're going to listen to everyone, but you need sounding boards when you train. in the case of the riders that ride every horse every day, we tell them what they're doing, i am interested what they feel when they're out on that horse. they are riding it, not me. luckily for the horse, as i said. i want to know whether the horse changes legs, did it shorten, didn't blow a bit too much, did it seem not easy and not relaxed in itself? a change of behaviour? you know the horse is meant to be healthy and well, but anything like that you've got to pick up on. i suppose when you're training,
you've got to watch the horse with your own eyes, and listen to the person on it. that's what i was coming to. it's about feedback from your riders. they have to be good communicators, but it's also about your own eyes. you've got about 180 horses here. 175. at clarehaven. how well can you actually get to know each individual horse? well, you get to know them very well, because luckily a lot of them have been bred by people i know, and i've known the families, so i need a mother, the brother, this sister, their uncle, the father, the grandfather. when i go that fourth or fifth pedigree down i have been around too long. but you get to know the families and you get to know their traits. and i think the important thing is that you have a feel for them what they might genetically be, anyhow. but it's like when you get young players coming into a squad. you feel you know what you've got. we're off on another sport here now, on football, are we? well, it is, you can see that suddenly you thought where they had a certain strength, that the agent said, that bought it, or the stud manager send it to you, thought that would be its forte, you start the training and find it might not necessarily
be theirforte. and that's where you have to be flexible and not be too rigid or dogmatic in your approach. i find that works quite well. thing, of course, is that footballers can talk to their coach or their manager, but horses can't talk. so what do they tell you, and what do they need from you as a trainer? well, we've just been out with some young horses on the ring here, where they collect, and we had a bit of fun, one kicked the rails off, and we had to collect it and put it back. horses are very expressive, like any creatures. anyone who works with animals knows they have emotions, just like us, and they show it. the first thing you see when they walk out in the morning is, if they are walking out proud looking and feeling good about their life, it's very different to the one that comes out with a head down and the ears flat. you just know. you know the temperature‘s normal, you know it's eaten up, so you know there's something in the mood. and i promise you it is yourjob to feel that, and that is why
i refer to the rider feeling it as well. but if someone comes out in the morning and you give them a trot and they are just not happy about something, that is when you need to act. well, now, you mention california and all that started for you in the late 1970s, few would have been in your mid—to—late 20s. what's the story of your time in california, and what that taught you? well, you know, you go there as an immigrant, quite frankly, and people are incredibly welcoming. it was a wonderful time. it was — you know, ronnie reagan was president, he let the handbrake of the economy. well, if you're going to start dropping names, i'm going to remind you you were a trainer to the stars, elizabeth taylor, apparently, cary grant, burt bacharach. yeah, there's right. we had horses for all of them. liz taylor was great. she liked to come to the barn to pet them, she never really wanted to bother seeing them race. cary grant wanted them to race all the time, and the old hollywood crowd really loved their racing. what was their interest? was it financial, was it sporting, or a kind of case of latching onto a fashionable pastime?
no, i think it was very much a thing they liked to do. it was very elegantly done at the turf club at santa anita, and it was a place to be seen. mickey rooney would run up and down, having lost the daily doubles, screaming and shouting, which he would always tell everyone, but it was always that thing. i went to america because quite frankly you could start with nothing there. you get three little stables on the track, and you don't pay any rent, you train your horses on the track like everyone else. very good prize money, and you just try and get going. and after a year and a half, two years, i walked into one very good horse. bates motel. yes. tell us the story. well, he had come through the saleyard here, no—one wanted him. he was a stallion who wasn't known to have good colts.
he was huge, he looked like brighton pier, big old floppy ears. no—one wanted him but the owner said would you take him? i had to had to fly to the carolinas and have a look at him. the owner wasn't anthony perkins or alfred hitchcock, was he? no, jackie getty phillips. they were great fans, obviously, of hitchcock movies, hence bates motel. and strange to say, he got good, and he got good at three and became a champion older horse in america, and it's the break. i know a lot of good trainers didn't get the one horse to get the break, and once you get the break, you go from having six horses in your stables to 60 within a matter of months. and since then, of course, there have been winners all over the world, tracks all over the world, the whole range of horses. over 3000 winners in your career. again, you could talk for an hour about this, i'm sure, but give us two or three examples which stand out. i suppose the horses here that we've had recently like enable, she's been a phenomenon. she's been a very brave filly, great mind on her. i think if you're lucky, and they come along like that, and she was bred by a man who has bred a lot of good horses, and then you can go to the sales,
which i did for my wife and friends and with an agent, we went and bought a horse for not a lot of money and he winds up winning the irish derby, so those are very fulfilling moments. but it's like anything else. you can have an awful lot of frustrating and disappointing ones. but, you know, remember when you're working with animals, they are flesh, they are blood, they are not machines. and i always think in formula one they spend all that time and all those great engineers, and sometimes these cars don't even do the warm—up lap before something goes wrong. so what is it like with horses? it's a lot more delicate. well, john, let's bring things up—to—date with current issues, and there's been something of a recent crisis, hasn't there, in american racing. 22 horse deaths by mid—march at california's santa anita track in less than three months, 600,000 signatures also on a petition calling for a ballot on whether the sport should even exist. and emergency rulings at the track about on the day administration
of drugs, and also, of course, the use of the whip. this is beginning to feel they an existential crisis in californian racing. yes, i've been reading about it. obviously in the old days we didn't have those problems. i think you are dealing with a number of factors. 0ne, they've had a very wet winter, and when they have a very wet winter, what they do with those dirt tracks, they seal them, they roll them, and they are very firm, and they open them for racing and it makes it very hard underneath. the other thing we have to face is that they have been using medication in american racing now since really the late 1970s. and if you do that, you will actually weaken, genetically, the breed. this is a diuretic, lasix? this would be anti—inflammatories and a diuretic, lasix, a human drug. and i think if you've been using that on your — on the horses for that period of time, and we're now talking close to a0 years it has been going on, you are going to weaken the breed. certainly the old american racehorse was a lot tougher creature
than the one that we have now. and you have used lasix in the past, haven't you? but now you obviously can't. when in america, one did. but here, in france, england, ireland, australia, hong kong, you are not allowed to use any of those forms of race day medications, and i'm absolutely clear in my mind that is right. let's bring things a little bit closer to home, and how do you judge the health of the british racing industry at the moment? because there are perceptions that it has problems, fatalities for example at the cheltenham festival, we've had equine flu recently, it was actually well—controlled, i think, in venice. it lasted six days, the suspension of racing. more generally, in terms of the economy of british racing, how do you judge it health? 0n the equine flu, i think if you test every horse everywhere, you are going to find something. i think people got a bit carried away with the result that, oh my goodness, they're vaccinated here against flu.
unlike australia, when it it there. they're not vaccinated, and so that hit them a lot harder. we didn't have a problem with it, in the end. look, in terms of racing, in england and ireland, and france, you have the finest jumps racing anywhere in the world. of course, in any form of athletic activity, there is a risk of injury. always has been. you only have to watch a rugby game, watch an athlete suddenly do a hamstring going around the track, just running. it happens anywhere, i've seen it with horses running just loose in the paddock. there is an inherent risk to that form of competition. you'll never, ever get away from that completely. does that mean you extinguish the whole breed and ban racing? i think not. in my game, which is flat racing, i think there is a problem to the extent that it is being completely held together by some very big owners at the top.
0wner breeders, they might have 250 mares, they are breeding a lot of horses to race, they are not young men any more 01’ young women. and consequently i would be concerned that the next generation coming through would be able to breed and race at that level. so to that extent, i don't see enough depth in the market. i think the middle and lower market is weak. how do you resolve that? i'm inclined to think, at the end, we probably have too much fixtures. you probably have too much racing. and field sizes have shrunk because you are trying to make less horses go further. there is a foal crop but it will get smaller. there is not a demand for horses at a lower level. it is a beautiful sport to watch and it doesn't have a great following but we shouldn't take it for granted and we have to make ourselves more relevant
to the modern era and i think we also have to look at restructuring in many ways and i'm aware of areas that it could be done. i don't think we need to say we've always done it this way, should always do it that way. we have to start again, be flexible and open—minded. but it is the sport of kings, after all. there is a perception that, at the highest level, where you ply your trade, but it is somehow a little bit elitist and not inclusive. i can see that. when royal ascot, for instance, it used to be tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday and they introduced the saturday where a lot of people who'd been working the week could come and it was noticeable that a lot of families and young children come and suddenly that's become the most popular day and i'm very clear that to have an elitist image is not necessarily a good thing.
0n the other hand, we are number one in england and ireland, we're number one in the world for producing flat racing, turf racing grass horses in the world. in the old days, if you had a good horse, you'd win a classic, derby, they won those races they went to kentucky. now they stay in england and ireland. we have the finest deadlines of the world. hence the australian and asian countries, they like coming and buying the best broodmares we have for breeding and we must realise there are not many industries that we are number one in and in the uk and ireland, we are number one in the world for the breeding and racing of flat horses and jumps horses. you have particular problems at clarehaven with your riders in that some of them are overweight and some of them are finding it difficult to get visas to come to this country. that's a particular issue, isn't it? 0verweight. no, not at clarehaven.
there is a problem in the industry. we are quite lucky here. i think you just filmed 52 riders on horses and i was asked about them. i said, in this country, we're all getting bigger and bigger. you only have to go to an old inn to see the doorway‘s that high. thoroughbred horses, not the jump sources, but two, three years old, they can't have a heavyweight, they are still so, yes, we do look all around the world for riders. it's a highly skilled profession. we would have here obviously, it was always english, irish, scottish, welsh. for years, that was the foundation but now french, italian, spanish. all great. within the the eu, czecho—slovaki, german, polish. wonderful people. but also brazilian, some
of the finest riders in the world. i was in america, training in california, all the good riders came from central america and latin america. not so many americans. again, same problem, everyone‘s too many hamburgers, too big. we will have people come from india and pakistan. all these foreigners want to prove what they are doing to get the visa. they have to, but they are very skilled, they've been with us long enough and have leave to remain, paying taxes and everything else and they are very talented. it's a very interesting thing to me that the indian and pakistani, the hindu and muslim come here to work and they become the very best of friends. once they get away from the secular situation, it's quite interesting. yes, we are a league of nations and there are many languages out there that i have one point to make, one that works for me. we're all here and we breathe the same air. as far as i'm concerned, it's never bothered me where you come from. let's talk about frankie dettori, you have a good relationship,
a chequered history with him, 17 winner, i think, and counting across the five classic uk races. what is the essence of his talent? well, he's — he's... strangely enough, you're trying to breed the perfect racehorse. his father was champion jockey, gianfranco dettori of italy. and his mother was a trapeze family in the circus. so you can imagine he was bred. massively talented. he rides with such a superb balance. he rides very light on a horse. it is an interesting thing, he can weigh out at the same time, but he ran lighter than another guy. he can just poise himself on a horse and is so smooth that the horse hardly knows he's there. he is an amazing asset. because he rides the horses in the mornings. he is incredibly knowledgeable and passionate about it but i always say, he's an italian diva. it's rather like if you had him in the opera. he needs to be part of something, part of a team.
they are very family, italian people like this and when he is part of this team, he would do anything. he is wonderful. he is now mature and everything else and he isjust a delight to work with. does he always follow your instructions? no. the great thing about it is, he and i will analyse the race before and we will have a plan of how we think the race is going to unfold, but if the one we thought would go and make the running, that's something happens in the affected draw, his plan b is s a complete balk canvas and he can do his plan b is s a complete blank canvas and he can whatever he wants. and we've won more races, by don;t tie it down and we've won more races, by don't tie it down to instructions, discuss how you think it will be, discuss how you want to ride it but be prepared, after 100 yards, it's a different rider and race. you trust his spontaneity? totally, totally. any trainer or owner who tries
to tire jockey down to instructions is making a terrible mistake. do not employ the brilliant rider with a lot of experience. it's a young rider, you have to be more forceful, give them confidence and i don't need to tell you whether you are a tennis layer, a golfer, it's confidence. you whether you are a tennis player, a golfer, it's confidence. so much is about self—confidence. one thing you must never do, ifjockey a mistake in a race, you do not say anything or lay into him in front of people. you can discuss it quietly later that evening, the next day. so there's no hair drying? it doesn't work with a jockey. they're on their own. with a team, you can get after a team, if someone is not doing it right, with a jockey, once you get them second—guessing and doubting themselves, that is a disaster. because they'll go in a race and think should i be here, should i be there. a greatjockey, scobie breasley, who came over who rode with a clock
in his head from australia and all the other jockeys, bar one man, lester piggott, would all do what scobie did in a race. so scobie could control the race. lester was the only man that wouldn't. because he had the confidence and individuality. and i think it's important if a jockey is riding lacking confidence, you can see it. it's the worst thing. it's fragile. 0ne telling off in front of people, a humiliation, it's a disaster. is there a magic number beyond the 3000 winners that you've already achieved? 3000 or so, i should say. the question is how much longer can you go on producing winners? i think, the thing is, as long as you've got people who are kind enough to send you horses, they always say they have never seen a trainer retire thinks he has a good young one. the truth is, it's the quality and the top races. that is what really excites you. if you've got a little filly that
can win a small race, that's terribly important for her and for her breeding in the future, but obviously it's the major events that excite one. all good trainers are pretty neurotic. you just learn to disguise it because you've got to have those antennae up checking on things because, as you say, the player is not saying anything to you but on the one hand, sometimes a player will keep to themselves, and that's a big problem. i'm fascinated looking at the manchester united scenario, recently, what a change has occurred, where the players were not performing for one manager. i do not know why, but obviously it was a complete takedown in communication. breakdown in communication. those who do not know their football, that was jose mourinho and now they have 0le gunnar solskjaer, who does not have as good a record. and he has got them playing again. yes. he's gone in there, the guy who had played with a club, and is gone back to the beginning, it's very hard to do but he's managed to do it and he's probably gone in there and rather than hammering them, saying the talent is there, we can do this, i need
youn to come with me, this is your one chance. and the other thing you know, the manager, we talked one time about messi, i was fascinated to hear the manager say we have a gameplan, rather like a jockey but if it's not working, you've got to leave it to the great players, with the experience because he will start going and you will find a weak spot. you've got to let them play, you've got to let them play and show their flair and their exuberance and their amazing talent, but if you have them constrained or second guessing, or imposing too much, how can an athlete, equine, jockey, or anything, express themselves properly? well, as so often in a conversation withjohn gosden about racing it develops into a conversation about any plenty of other sports. thank you very much. thank you.
hello there. well, you may have already heard that temperatures are on the rise this weekend. certainly to next week, it could be that some areas become quite hot indeed, but we'll see an increase of thundery downpours too. more on that in just a moment. to the here and now, friday is looking like being another one of sunny spells and scattered showers, although most of the showers will be across the northern half of the country, closer to low pressure anchored to the north of scotland. so we start early friday with a few showers across scotland, northern ireland and the far north of england. further south mainly dry with some early sunshine around. it'll be quite nippy out there first thing. high pressure is going to be building up from the south as we head through the course of today.
there's that low pressure system. this weather front affecting mainly scotland and the isobars a bit closer together here. so more of a breeze blowing in from the west or the north—west. some of the showers fairly heavy and frequent through the morning. but they will tend to become fewer as we head on into the afternoon, and that goes for northern ireland and the far north of england. but further south, actually a dry day in store. some good sunny spells around. lighter winds too so it will feel a little bit warmer — 20 or 21 degrees in the south—east. still in the midteens for the north. as we head on into friday night, early saturday, that area of high—pressure continues to exert its force across the country. kills off most of the showers and the winds turning lighter. there'll be clear skies. one or two mist and fog patches, otherwise for most, a fine start to saturday but again fairly nippy. as we head on into the weekend, we start to draw up some very warm air from the near continent thanks to high pressure and we should see a lot of dry weather so actually quite a good—looking weekend on the whole. saturday, here it is then,
lots of sunshine up and down the country. south or south—easterly winds. a bit of fairweather cloud tend to build up through the day. but most places should stay dry. it will feel a bit warmer — those temperatures into the low 20s celsius across the south, maybe a degree or so warmer further north. so i'll show you the pressure charts as we head through the weekend: high—pressure dominates for most, bringing this warm south—easterly across the country. but we've got low pressure to the south—west trying to move into western areas and all that will do is destabilise the atmosphere here so we will see increasing chance of showers or maybe even some thundery rain. but for much of the country, on sunday it looks fine again, with some lengthy spells of sunshine drawing up some really warm and humid air from the near continent. temperatures might reach the mid 20s celsius across the south. but across the board you can see, it going to be warmer temperatures. central scotland, for example, in the low 20s. but like i mentioned, with that area of low pressure trying to move in the chance of thundery downpours increases from sunday onwards so stay tuned to the forecast.
hello everyone, and welcome. you are watching newsday on the bbc. i'm rico hizon in singapore. the headlines: president trump says iran made a big mistake in shooting down a us drone, but adds it may not have been intentional. i have a feeling that it was a mistake made by somebody that shouldn't have been doing what they did. hong kong braces forfresh protests after the government announces plans to scrap its controversial extradition bill. —— defies demands to scrap its controversial extradition bill. also in the programme: a warm north korean welcome for china's president xi, the first time a chinese president