tv BBC News BBC News November 19, 2019 11:00pm-11:31pm GMT
this is bbc news, i'm shaun ley. the headlines at 11:00pm: brexit, honesty, and the nhs — the dominating themes in tonight's election debate between johnson and corbyn. jeremy corbyn arrived in salford greeting supporters outside, promising to invest much more money in the nhs, while borisjohnson‘s cavalcade swept in with the prime minister keen to turn many of his responses to brexit. full market access for us products to our national health service. you are going to sell our national health service out to the united states and big pharma.
mr corbyn is trying to conceal the void at the heart of his brexit policy and refusing to answer the question of which side he would take. coming up, we'll hear from our reality check correspondent, who will fact—check what the leaders had to say. a leaked report describes a toxic culture at a shrewsbury hospital that left babies stillborn, others brain damaged, and parents still searching for answers. officials in the netherlands say at least 25 people have been found in a refrigerated container on board a ferry bound for the uk. and at 11:30pm, we will be taking an in—depth look at the papers with our reviewers, dawn foster and lord jones. stay with us for that.
good evening. with just over three weeks to election day, borisjohnson and jeremy corbyn have come face—to—face in a televised debate, with each party leader questioning the other‘s suitability for number ten. brexit, the future of the nhs and personal integrity were the dominant themes. while mrjohnson repeatedly challenged mr corbyn to clarify his position on brexit, the labour leader said he would negotiate a new deal and present it to voters in a referendum. mr corbyn accused mrjohnson of preparing to sell parts of the nhs to american companies in order to secure a trade deal, which the prime minister denied. our political editor laura kuenssberg reports from salford, where the itv debate took place. a
debate took place. clash of welcomes before it eve began, a clash of welcomes before it even began, the prime minister driven on the back, away from a small band of protesters. the labour leader greeted instead by a selection of his fans. what waited them inside.” think you will from the bottom of my heart for everything you are doing. tonight, the conservative prime minister, borisjohnson, tonight, the conservative prime minister, boris johnson, and tonight, the conservative prime minister, borisjohnson, and the leader of the labour party, jeremy corbyn, debate. first, their chance atan corbyn, debate. first, their chance at an opening pitch. this election gives you a real choice about your future, the future of your community, and of our country. labour is offering real change and real hope. people want to get brexit done and to unleash the potential of this entire country, and we conservatives can, because if you vote for us, we have a deal that is ready to go. both of you have promised that brexit will be resolved in the next few months. but are you really telling us the truth?
can you reassure me that we will not be talking about this forever?” think it is time that we actually recognise we have to maintain a firm and good trading relationship with europe, otherwise morejobs will and good trading relationship with europe, otherwise more jobs will be lost all over the country, as they have already been lost because of the uncertainty. we have a deal that asi the uncertainty. we have a deal that as i say is up and ready. it is good to go. and it is approved as a safe notjust by our to go. and it is approved as a safe not just by our partners to go. and it is approved as a safe notjust by our partners in the eu but by every one of the 635 conservative candidates, and it delivers everything that we wanted from brexit —— oven ready. delivers everything that we wanted from brexit -- oven ready. remember, the prime minister wants to leave in january, with his deal. jeremy corbyn is offering you another referendum, or leave with a different deal, or remain. are you
going to campaign for leave or remain? i want to bring people together, therefore they will be a referendum in which that decision will be made by the british people, and our government will abide by that decision. when you say you will get it done, really, mrjohnson, you are going to embark on probably seven are going to embark on probably seve n years are going to embark on probably seven years of negotiations with the united states on a trade deal, document he had... the labour leader repeated his claim that the conservatives would make the nhs pa rt conservatives would make the nhs part of a future trade deal with the us. full market access for us products to our national health service. you are going to sell our national health service out to the united states big pharma. our nhs will never be for sale, and i'm amazed how often this comes up. the only reason that it comes up is because mr corbett is trying to conceal the void at the heart of his brexit policy and refusing to answer the question —— mr corbyn. brexit policy and refusing to answer the question -- mr corbyn. be aware, this election could be a major junction for the uk. the tories will add another referendum in scottish independence. labour... of course, jeremy corbyn and the labor party are going to do a deal and they probably have already done a deal with nicola sturgeon and the snp to form a corbyn sturgeon coalition, and the price of that deal, the price of nicola sturgeon's support,
she has made it absolutely clear, would be a second referendum on the union. i think i ought would be a second referendum on the union. i thinki ought to be able would be a second referendum on the union. i think i ought to be able to reply to this nonsense. will you be able to rely... this nonsense of a coalition between labour and the snp. there is not going to be a coalition between labour and anybody else. there have been no deals that have been done and there will be no deal that will be done. judy, i listened very carefully, as i always do, to mr corbyn. i didn't hear him say he was going to rule out a referendum on scotland. did you? we are rolling out a referendum. for the audience, maybe you want to know who to trust. at the heart of all of this is one very simple question. how can we trust you? does the truth matter in this election?” how can we trust you? does the truth matter in this election? i think it does, andi matter in this election? i think it does, and i think it very important. i think it very important to hear from... i have been very clear about the deal i have done. mr corbyn,
there are big questions about anti—semitism within labour, for example. can you both take some responsibility for the way the debate has turned in this country? anti—semitism is an absolute evil and scourge within our society. racism in any form is a scourge. they were asked, and did shake hands, and raising the tone, but didn't agree on privatisation of health. how will you ensure that the health. how will you ensure that the health service can meet future demands, and would that involve any privatisation? lets and the privatisation? lets and the privatisation within the nhs, and instead have a fully funded nhs for people. mrjohnson, respond on that. we are investing tax doctor.m people. mrjohnson, respond on that. we are investing tax doctor. it is a specific question on privatisation. of course we are not privatising the nhs. nor will the nhs of course we are not privatising the nhs. norwillthe nhs ever of course we are not privatising the nhs. nor will the nhs ever be subject to privatisation. what could be more ruinous for the nhs than a crackpot plan for a four—day week? it is about reducing the working week all across the economy, paid
for by productivity increases all across britain. then, in the immediate aftermath of that interview, they were asked to step onto the minefield of the monarchy. sue from leeds. is the monarchy fit for purpose? mr corbyn? needs a bit ofa for purpose? mr corbyn? needs a bit of a per comic improvement. mr johnson? the institution of the monarchy is beyond reproach.“ prince andrew fit for purpose? before we discuss prince andrew, i think we should discuss the victims that are there because of what has happened. i think all of our sympathies should be obviously with the vic himselfjeffrey epstein, and the vic himselfjeffrey epstein, and the law must certainly take its course. the first duel over, weeks still to go in this campaign, but initial impressions for the two rivals for number ten, they may well
last. two people who wanted to be on stage and were not werejo swinson and nicola sturgeon. here are the leaders of the liberal democrats and snp reacting to the debate. ijust think what i just think what we had was the kind of bluster and diversion, from both of them, frankly, that needed to be challenged. and whether that was on them each trying to excuse their record on anti—semitism or, in their record on anti—semitism or, in the case of borisjohnson, trying to divert the question about racism onto brexit, which i thought was very strange, you know, they have just proved tonight that they are not up for the job. whatever future scotland wants should be decided here in scotland, by the people of scotland. it's not for boris johnson orjeremy corbyn to dictate. and that's the issue at the heart of this election. are we going to allow these
westminster politicians and that failed system determine what our country can become, or are we're going to take that descison into our own hands? well, earlier today the green party published its election manifesto, promising to spend £100 billion a year to help the uk reach net—zero carbon emissions by 2030. the party says it would raise the money mainly through borrowing and use it to invest in projects designed to tackle climate change. our political correspondent iain watson has been covering the debate from salford all night for us and getting reaction from some of the politicians who weren't on stage. look, tonight? debate, ithink both men played to their strengths. boris johnson went on and on about brexit, having an oven ready deal. jeremy corbyn preferred to be in the territory of the nhs and suggesting the nhs would be at risk from any
future post brexit trade deal. difficult to see either of them breaking through. there was a snap poll that suggested that 51% preferred borisjohnson, 49%jeremy corbyn, that is within the margin of error, so we are yet corbyn, that is within the margin of error, so we are yet to see whether this election campaign will ignite. a whole range of parties, of course, went on the main stage tonight, the snp and the lib dems have challenged this in court. the green party from wales are not there either, but we have them with us. fear not, natalie bennettjoins us. had you been up there tonight, how would you have a nswered there tonight, how would you have answered some of those questions? first of all, on brexit. boris johnson said his deal is oven ready. do you think it is edible? it is very clearly the best possible deal we could have is the membership of the eu right now. we have to celebrate the advantages of freedom of movement, especially for our young people. people tend to focus oi'i young people. people tend to focus on freedom of movement, people coming here, we have the opportunity to travel, to move, at 1127 other eu
countries. we need to focus on that. so yes, what we should do is put this back to the people, give the people the final say, with the people's vote. and do you think jeremy corbyn was clear enough about that, because he is also offering a referendum? well, what we don't know, and what was very clearly not answered, was what jeremy corbyn's labour party were doing that referendum, as well as the difficult challenge of can we really renegotiate what is —— again— what is the point. the green party has been remain party all the way through. we consistently know where we stand. we know that the protections of the eu, environmental protections, workers' rights redactions, those other things we wa nt redactions, those other things we want to keep, and we want to work with our neighbours to rein in multinational companies, make them pay their taxes, make them —— multinational companies, make them pay theirtaxes, make them —— make them treat their workers properly. we are the enthusiast for the eu. but the key thing we have to remember is what boris johnson but the key thing we have to remember is what borisjohnson kept saying was the mantra, the utterly unbelievable mantra, of get brexit done. but of course, you know, if we done. but of course, you know, if we do live on 31 january, we are then going to spend the next year wrangling about our relationship with the eu, a relationship with the re st of with the eu, a relationship with the rest of the world. that won't give us rest of the world. that won't give us the chance to tackle the climate emergency, tackle all the pressing problems. i don't think any mention tonight about this debate coming from the north of england. you know,
the huge north—south divide. i live in sheffield. you know, people in sheffield, people in rotherham, in doncaster, who have just been hit by heavy flooding, they are feeling deserted, abandoned by westminster. well, let me mention something it was addressed tonight, although briefly, and that was climate change. and i thought one of the striking moments was whenjeremy corbyn said that some of the poorest people in the world have been affected by climate change, and he actually got barix by a section of the audience, he said oh no, not again. this is your key issue, and it doesn't sound like it is breaking through. well, i have to wonder if some of those people won't people from the north, and jeremy corbyn with looking on the global scale and presenting this as a problem of the global south. of course, this is a problem that is very clear and present right now here in britain. floods in many parts of the uk. sol don't know what those people were reacting to, but i do wonder, knowing some of the people i have been talking to around the north affected by flooding, and indeed in the midlands, whether that wasn't what was being reacted to there. but the practical reality is this is a
climate emergency. our young people out on the streets, the climate strikers, demanding we take action. and this is the last election. we have to set ourselves on the right path now, that is what the intergovernmental panel on climate change tells us. that is what the science tells us. and it is a chance to really improve people's lives, by tackling things also like air pollution, like the problems with a lack of public transport that so many people need, like the fact that so many people need, like the fact that so many people live cold and impossible to heat homes. all of these things can improve people's lives and tackle the climate emergency. natalie bennett, thank you very much. natalie bennett, former leader of the green party of england and wales. they lodged in manchester today, making some of the points i think the party would have made if they had been part of this debate. don't forget the bbc will be showing the party debate which includes seven of the leading parties in the united kingdom later in this campaign. and following the leaders' debate, michael gove from the conservatives
and andrew gwynne from labour, had their own colourful exchange about the labour's party stance on leave or remain, while they spoke to iain watson. there were many occasions on which jeremy corbyn was asked about his position on brexit. he couldn't a nswer position on brexit. he couldn't answer the question. andrew talks about bringing people together. he wa nts to about bringing people together. he wants to bring people together by having another referendum ? wants to bring people together by having another referendum? that is divisive, it would suck all the oxygen out of our political system, it would mean we would not be able to move on and invest in our nhs, invest in schools, invest in crime. but more than that, if you are a leader, you need to have a clear view. now, at the end of an hour of questioning, we do not know, in that referendum that jeremy corbyn questioning, we do not know, in that referendum thatjeremy corbyn want so referendum thatjeremy corbyn want so much, whether he would argue for leave or remain. i don't know which way andrew would argue. would you argue for leave, andrew, or remain? well, look, in a second referendum, we will put to the people labour's plan for brexit. which is? leave or remain? which is customs union, single market alignment. sounds lovely. are you for that, or remain? i would be very confident in going to my constituents and recommending
that they vote for that. so you would vote for leaving? so you would be on would vote for leaving? so you would beona would vote for leaving? so you would be on a separate side to diane abbott? if they choose not to, that is democracy. what are you afraid of? what are you afraid of? you have created a big mess in this country, michael. let's heal a divided nation. so you will heal a divided nation... you talk about one nation. this isn't one nation under the tories. i am not talking about anything at the moment, because you are interrupting every thing. but the key thing is, you're going to bring people together by arguing that referendum that we should leave, even though diane abbott, abbott, john mcdonnell, starmer, will be arguing we should remain. i thought you were bringing people together, you can't even bring your own shadow cabinet together. 635 to 70 candidates back borisjohnson‘s deal. your party is riven right at the top. you have got rid of all the people that disagree with you. well, you have promoted all the people i disagree with you, andrew, into the shadow cabinet. you cannot plausibly talk about bringing people together... i know it is pantomime
season, but come on. people don't believe you, andrew. no, no. i'm afraid... we are the ugly sisters! i think we can safely say that andrew certainly is not a pantomime game. andrew is a stand—up comic —— pantomime dame. he believes that the way to bring people together is to have them all disagree. the way to have them all disagree. the way to have leadership in this country is to have a shadow cabinet fundamentally riven on this essential... i have to say, wouldn't they make splendid ugly sisters, or maybe two ends of the pantomime horse. some enterprising theatrical entrepreneur out there might have some ideas for what they might want to do at christmas. as we've been hearing brexit was one of the issues that dominated the debate and earlier i spoke to our reality check correspondent chris morris who went through the pledges both leaders made. with the three words that we heard,
probably more than any other during that hour of television, and they came out of borisjohnson‘s mouth at every opportunity, get brexit done. clearly it is what he wants to say, it is on the side of his bus, it's not take back control anymore. it even on the boxing glove. but if there is a conservative majority then i think it is fair to say that we will certainly leave the eu on the 31st of january. the key thing is, well that actually get brexit done? i think the honest answer to thatis, done? i think the honest answer to that is, legally, yes, we will have left. practically, no. because next year, if anything, left. practically, no. because next year, ifanything, could be left. practically, no. because next year, if anything, could be more frenetic and more fraught than the year that has just been. really? we have just got a few months to try to negotiate a trade deal with the european union, and trade deals take a long time. stevejohnson keeps on saying, yes, but we start on the same place, we have been partners for yea rs same place, we have been partners for years and years. and he is right, we are aligned already. we are aligned, but trade deals are a
very difficult process and gradually getting closer together, and creating goodwill, he wants to gradually pull us apart, and create potentially more tensions. and there are certainly suspicions on the eu site about how far did johnson want to pull apart, so it is not impossible but i think it will be a very tall order to do what he has 110w very tall order to do what he has now promised again, and that is to com plete now promised again, and that is to complete brexit by the end of next year and leave the transition period with a trade deal. the idea that brexit will be done on the 31st of january, not really. and what about jeremy corbyn on brexit, because he got in the neck from the audience. yes, and no surprise it's where michael gove chose to kickoff the pantomime, because he was asked again and again, what is actually your policy on leave or remainer? and he kept repeating versions of this, within three months we will negotiate a new deal, and then
within another six months put that toa within another six months put that to a referendum. he was asked by mr johnson, but which of those in that referendum would you support, and his family didn't answer. i don't think people like that very much, and we know that why they creative ambiguity is there, because the labour party is split down the middle, they have essentially kicked out many of the people who didn't agree with the party line, and mr johnson said more than once, all my mps now believe the same thing. that is probably not entirely true, there are still shades of difference of opinion, but i think it is a problem for opinion, but i think it is a problem foer opinion, but i think it is a problem for mr corbin that while he says the line, and you can understand why he is saying it this way, we are going to make it a democratic decision. we are going to negotiate a better deal than his and let the people decide. don't forget, you can find reality check updates on our election coverage on bbc news website. you
can also find video clips that chris has contributed. he is always worth watching and listening to. a leaked official report into multiple failings at shrewsbury and telford hospital nhs trust has revealed that babies and mothers died because of a toxic culture stretching back four decades. the trust has apologised and said a lot had been done to address concerns. an investigation was ordered by ministers in 2017 but as our health correspondent dominic hughes report many of the failings have yet to be addressed. ican i can remember saying to the lady, i'm sorry, she's dead, leave her. and then he said that there was no heartbeat. that midwife come in crying, saying, oh, i'm so sorry, i'm so sorry! too late.
these other bereaved, left devastated by failures of care. dozens of avoidable deaths, babies and mothers left with lifelong injuries. a leaked interim report lays bare a failure to learn from m ista kes lays bare a failure to learn from mistakes stretching back a0 years. in april 2017, bbc news reported a cluster of baby deaths at the trust. injuly of cluster of baby deaths at the trust. in july of that cluster of baby deaths at the trust. injuly of that year cluster of baby deaths at the trust. in july of that year the cluster of baby deaths at the trust. injuly of that year the government ordered an investigation. donna 0ckenden, leading the enquiry, submitted an update report in february this year which was leaked. now it's understood her ongoing investigation is reviewing 620 cases. the report details a shocking catalogue of deaths and injuries to mothers and babies, but also a simple act of kindness. the trust made mistakes with babies names, in one case referring to a deceased child as it. parents were met with silence and obstruction. just hours
after she was born, in 2009, baby kate sta nto n after she was born, in 2009, baby kate stanton davis died. in the decade since, her parents have led the fight to expose these failures in care. a wilful neglect to learn, they are failing, they are already in special measures, and we had to battle them every step of the way for the last ten years to get to where we are today for this leaked report to come out. eight years ago, at first reported on failures in the maternity unit at the morecambe bay trust, which also led to avoidable deaths of mothers and babies, and many of the themes from there are applicable here. a lack of openness and honesty, and much of that comes down to bad leadership. at ward level, individual departments, and the very top of the trust. in a statement, the trust apologised to families and said that they would like to reassure them that efforts to improve maternity services are
continuing without a wait for the official final report stopping the work of the enquiry team is still under way but what will concern many is that as of february this year, the verdict was the trust had still not learnt painful lessons of so much failure. i held her, said goodbye, and went home empty—handed. i don't want another dad to have two put the lid on his daughter's often. they are not just taking people's babies away. they are taking away christmases, birthdays, everything. some of the parents there, in dominic hughes' report, talking about the maternity scandal in shropshire emergency services in the netherlands have confirmed that at least 25 people have been found in a refrigerated container on board a ferry bound for the uk. let's speak to our correspondentjohn mcmanus.
those were ominous words when you think about what happened not so long ago, but some better news for these travellers tonight. these 25 migrants were discovered by crew on board this very which is operated by the danish company dfds. the ferry left the netherlands at about 7pm it is time this evening, the crews say they discovered these 25 migrants, somehow hidden within a refrigerated unit on board the ferry. as we know, thatis unit on board the ferry. as we know, that is extremely dangerous as well as being cold those units can often be airtightand as being cold those units can often be airtight and you mentioned the incident in essex last month where those vietnamese migrants were u nfortu nately those vietnamese migrants were unfortunately found dead. in this case, everybody was found alive. 0nce case, everybody was found alive. once the crew discovered the migrants they alerted police and immediately turned around and headed back to the netherlands. they say that there were 25 of them who were
found, when they got to the port the medical services met them and two people were taken to hospital, the rest were given ports hx by the medical staff and are now being processed by police. the police in the netherlands have told the media that they have spoken to the driver at the moment although no charges have been made, although they are talking to him about the possibility of being involved in human trafficking, of course, but as we say luckily these migrants survived this journey and we are hoping to find out where they are from and perhaps put them on theirjourney. thank you very much. mr assigned denies the accusations of rape, avoided extradition to sweden for seven years after seeking refuge at the embassy of ecuador and london. he was eventually evicted in april and sentenced to 50 weeks in
jailfor breaching his bail conditions copy afterjulian assange was pulled out of the ecuadorian embassy in april, prosecutors have been busy. 0ver embassy in april, prosecutors have been busy. over the summer, they interviewed seven witnesses. but today they announced that memories had faded with time. although the woman who made that rape allegation was credible, they didn't have proof. translation: my assessment is that all investigated measures that can be taken, have been taken. i conclude the evidence is not strong enough to file an indictment. the investigation into julian enough to file an indictment. the investigation intojulian assange first began back in 2010 when two swedish women accused him of sexual assault. he was arrested and fought assault. he was arrested and fought a legal battle against extradition. when he lost that in 2012, he sought asylu m when he lost that in 2012, he sought asylum at the embassy of ecuador at.
the following month, the home secretary signed an extradition request from the us, where 18 criminal charges have been unveiled againstjulian assange. with julian assange's legal troubles in sweden 110w assange's legal troubles in sweden now over, there will be no swedish extradition request to compete with the one from the us. hearings over that begin here at westminster magistrates‘ court in february. from behind bars and belmarsh prison jail, julian assange is now preparing his case against extradition. one long legal chapter in sweden has finished stopping another chapter will soon begin. ina in a moment, i will be back with the papers. now it‘s time for the weather with matt taylor. hello, tuesday, the cost of the season hello, tuesday, the cost of the season so far, entering off the statistics for november so far it has been a particularly cold month,
when we see temperatures on this chart, below average for this time of year, also substantially dry, the marine colours on our rainfall chart. also showing whether whites and blues, and we are seeing substantially above average rainfall, particularly so the east midlands, in fact nottinghamshire has seen almost double their entire months worth of rainfall, should be around 60%, notice shetland way, way below that, barely one fifth of what we normally expect to see the entire month stopping the rainfall to take us month stopping the rainfall to take us into wednesday will be mainly again limited to west infringers, many eastern parts will be dry, a few isolated showers closed in sea coast few isolated showers closed in seacoast potentially, and maybejust one or two drifting through western scotla nd one or two drifting through western scotland later but it is northern ireland and a few other places where we can see the marina time. a breezy day across eastern areas, is not only do we not start as cold, it is not going to be as chilly in the afternoon, most places above freezing, most around 6—8d. as we go through the night and into thursday,
more of you are frost free, further ran more of you are frost free, further ra n towards more of you are frost free, further ran towards the south and west, and thursday will be a blustery day, but there will also be some heavier best of rain towards the south—west, wales, and later into northern ireland, the vast majority having another dry day. some sunny spells, and images around where they should be for the time of year. and we continue in that vein as we go through thursday night and into friday, a low pressure system actually drifting a little bit closer towards us and that will push some showery rain northwards as we go through thursday night, so it be too chilly a start. some sunny conditions developing across england, early rain in parts of northern scotland actually fizzling, main bulk of rain which will come and go again, mainly towards the west. temperatures a bit more widely into nine or 10 celsius as we finished friday afternoon. if you are with me 2a hours ago, you will know that this area of low pressure
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