tv BBC Wales Live BBC News November 26, 2019 8:00pm-9:01pm GMT
steve thomson, who's a builder, and his wife lenka won 105 million pounds. mr thomson said when he realised he had won, he felt like he was "on the verge of having a heart attack". katie price has been declared bankrupt in a hearing at the high court. the former model and reality tv star didn't attend the hearing, but the court heard she had failed to stick to a plan to repay her debts. now that she's been made bankrupt, the official receiver will take control of her financial affairs and property. now on bbc news, in a change to our normal schedule, we will be joining bethan rhys roberts and jason mohammad as they host a special wales live election debate from haverfordwest. i'm back at10:30pm. with just over dust makes weeks —— two weeks until polling day, we hear from welsh politicians. welcome to have rfordwest from welsh politicians. welcome to
haverfordwest and the wales title might live election debate. —— the wales live election debate. applause good evening and welcome to the pembrokeshire county showground in have rfordwest pembrokeshire county showground in haverfordwest for a special live election debate, and welcome to viewers beyond whilst watching on the bbc news channel. over the next hour, we will be testing the pledges and ambitions of five political parties in wales. i will be chatting to our audience, who have a wide range of viewpoints and are very keen to quiz our panel of politicians on a range of subjects, not just brexit, to politicians on a range of subjects, notjust brexit, to get the answer is that matter to wales. you at home canjoin in on social media. the hashtag is on screen. we asked the
five main parties to nominate a leading representative to take part in the debate. for the lib dems, their leader in wales, jane dodds, for the conservatives, david tc davies. for plight comrie —— for plaid cymru,... and for labour... please give them a warm welcome. so, jason, our first please give them a warm welcome. so, jason, ourfirst question. please give them a warm welcome. so, jason, our first question. good evening, one at all. ourfirst question comes from emily. brexit is a big theme in this election — how do we know you will deliver on what you promise? you can be certain the conservatives will deliver because every single candidate standing for the conservative party is committed to delivering boris's deal. we all believe that brexit should have happened right now and it is u nfortu nate happened right now and it is unfortunate that it hasn't. all
parties voted for a referendum and said originally they would respect the result, and i'm afraid some haven't, and they can answer for themselves, including some conservatives. what we have said is clear: every conservative candidate standing will support boris's excellent deal. it will take us out of the eu by the end of january with no tariffs or disruption, and we can respect the wish of the people of wales and the united kingdom. let's look beyond the deal. let's say you have a majority. you won't extend, 11 months to negotiate a deal, and at the end of next year, is no deal on the table? absolutely, because if we aren't prepared to leave without a deal, we won't get out at all. a few months ago, everyone was saying it would be impossible for boris to even begin to renegotiate the brexit deal. he did it in a record 90 days, and partly because the eu recognised that we were serious about pulling
out without a deal. they don't want us out without a deal. they don't want us to leave without a deal, let's be clear. it is in everyone's interest for there to be a deal. if anyone wa nts to for there to be a deal. if anyone wants to look at the political declaration, both sides have signed up declaration, both sides have signed up to declaration, both sides have signed uptoa declaration, both sides have signed up to a free trade arrangement by the end of the year. white like you said it delivers on no tariffs or quotas, but beyond the transition period, we don't know what tariffs there will be because there is no trade deal. there is a political declaration signed by both sides which commits us signed by both sides which commits us to working towards that and sees it as eminently reasonable. the media said it would be completely impossible to renegotiate the deal at all, and we did it in less than 90 days. we can easily do this in a year. what we decide on brexit will have an impact on us for many years to come, so it is important to think about it. we are seeing that the
deal borisjohn about it. we are seeing that the deal boris john —— about it. we are seeing that the deal borisjohn —— we are saying that the deal boris johnson deal borisjohn —— we are saying that the deal borisjohnson brought backis that the deal borisjohnson brought back is bad. when we offered to scrutinise it, he didn't want us to do that. we are saying that within three months of getting into government we will negotiate a deal which is much better for our industry and our farmers, giving them access to the markets that they need, then we will put that decision back to you for you to decide within six months, and i can tell you that this will happen because we've already been having those talks. kier starmer has been to brussels, and they have talked about the type of brexit we would offer you and the decision then could be made by people when they can see exactly what is on offer, and you will be voting, therefore, on that decision, not onjust a voting, therefore, on that decision, not on just a vague voting, therefore, on that decision, not onjust a vague idea voting, therefore, on that decision, not on just a vague idea about brexit. applause the first minister in wales... mark dra keford has the first minister in wales... mark drakeford has said that a welsh
labour government would campaign unapologetically to remain. christina rees, your spokesperson on wales, said earlier this year, brexit will happen. jeremy corbyn is neutral. which labour leader are you following? the point is, we will put the vote back to people so that they will have the opportunity to make that decision. jeremy corbyn, as our leader, taking that forward as prime minister, needs to keep himself in a position where he could lead either way. how will you campaign if elected? i will campaign for remain, because i genuinely believe, having talked to industry, to business, to farmers, that we absolutely need a good, strong relationship with the market. some people call it the common market, and some people remember it as such, but with that single market, so we can make sure out single market, so we can make sure our economy single market, so we can make sure our economy is right here in wales. jane dodds. thanks for the question.
it is important that we answer this honestly. the lib dems have been the party of remain since the 24th of june, and we haven't moved from that. we want to stay in the eu and think that is best for wales, for out think that is best for wales, for ourfarmers, our think that is best for wales, for our farmers, our businesses. think that is best for wales, for ourfarmers, our businesses. we think that is best for wales, for our farmers, our businesses. we also think it's about us being a country which is part of an international body as well. that is a heart thing as well. it is about values as well as well. it is about values as well as being about economics and business. it is about playing in a bigger team, and business. it is about playing in a biggerteam, andl business. it is about playing in a bigger team, and i want to be business. it is about playing in a biggerteam, and i want to be part ofa biggerteam, and i want to be part of a bigger team. that is something we will continue to campaign on. we have said very clearly that if we are a majority government, we will stop brexit. you cannot deliver brexit overnight. we hear from the conservatives that they will get brexit done. it's not going to get brexit done. it's not going to get brexit done. it's not going to get brexit done. this will go on for
years and years. if you have been watching tv, seeing brexit time after time, that is what is going to happen. you will be able to stop brexit overnight if you vote for a lib dem government. what might you say it is about values. what is democratic about cancelling the will of the majority of people? a general election, which is what we have now, is a democratic process. we are very clear and honest. just as labourand we are very clear and honest. just as labour and the conservatives have laid out their stall, saying this is what they will do and not do one brexit, we are saying very clearly that if you elect a lib dems majority, we will stop brexit. applause good evening. firstly, ithink applause good evening. firstly, i think we need to remind the three remain
parties here that wales voted to leave. applause and we have watched that decision, three and a half years ago, be frustrated by these parties in parliament. i got into politics only in april, so i am not a career politician. i resigned from the civil service and got into politics because of what was going on in westminster, and the utter betrayal of ourmps westminster, and the utter betrayal of our mps there, who all said, all of our mps there, who all said, all of the leaders promised, that they would deliver brexit before the referendum and they would deliver the result. and all they have done for the last three and a half years is frustrate that vote. it's why i got into politics. i was so angry at oui’ got into politics. i was so angry at our politicians. in terms of the question, can we trust the conservatives to deliver brexit? i think there is a trust issue here with boris. if you go back to the
summer, when boris was running to be the leader of the conservative party, he promised the dup at their conference that he would never put a border in the irish sea. he said we would do or die, leave on the 31st, and he said that numerous times. and he also promised there would be tax brea ks he also promised there would be tax breaks for the wealthy when he was trying to run as leader. all of those promises he has changed now in this election. so boris's johnson is deal, is it brexit? that all depends on what happens next year. is it the brexit you want? brexit is the full process when we get a free trade agreement and have an agreement and start doing free trade agreements with countries around the world. this is just with countries around the world. this isjust a with countries around the world. this is just a withdrawal agreement. what might nigel farage said that this is mrs may's are pulling surrender treaty and boris's deal will not get brexit done, and yet
you are standing aside in several seats across the uk to enable boris johnson to get that deal through, so i don't quite understand. this is just i don't quite understand. this isjust their i don't quite understand. this is just their withdrawal agreement. the important bit is next year, when we negotiate what is going to happen. this is where it comes down to trust. do we trust boris to keep to his promises? he has promised we will leave next year. again, he said do or die, leave on the 31st of october, and he also said we would not have market alignment so that we could do free trade deals around the world. so you would be happy with no deal next december? if we can get mps from the brexit party into westminster to hold the tories to account, we will work with the conservatives to help push through that deal. but we will hold him to account. we will not be whipped like the tory mps, by boris. we will be there as independent voices standing up for you basically
to represent and make sure he keeps to represent and make sure he keeps to his promises. liz savill roberts. thank you for the question, emily. the question was, will you deliver on what you have promised in this election as regards brexit? we listen to labour under tories here and we know the reason why boris johnson got his deal through, arguing that he did it in record time is one of these things that boris likes to say, but we know it was theresa may's deal with some of the good bits taken up, frankly. that's how he got it through swiftly. on the other hand, we have labour. jeremy corbyn is proposing that he will be neutral. you cannot be neutral about brexit. this is the great crisis, the great urgency of out great crisis, the great urgency of ourtime. to great crisis, the great urgency of our time. to propose being a leader of the united kingdom and to be neutral over brexit is an abdication of duty. so come on the one hand, we have a party trying to be all things
to all people, pretending to be neutral on the greatest issue, and on the other, we have borisjohnson. i was on the other, we have borisjohnson. iwas in on the other, we have borisjohnson. i was in the welsh showground yesterday and he was talking to farmers. borisjohnson will tell you what he wants you to hear. people tell you what he thinks you want to hear. what the truth will be, can he get a deal through any 11 months? no. the canadian deal took seven years. can he get it through without a level playing field arrangement? no. with plaid cymru, we have consistently argued as the lead party for remain... let's look at leanne wood's comments. the result is not narrow enough to be overturned or called into question. your current leader, adam price, in november wanted to revoke. now he wa nts a
november wanted to revoke. now he wants a second referendum. we know way more about brexit and the eu than we did three years ago. i think it has been an unfortunate and difficult learning process for us all. meantime, ithink difficult learning process for us all. meantime, i think it's fair to say that people recognise plaid cymru as being a redmayne party. that was how the vote was in the elections in may. with the revoke decision, that was for that time and place, because we had borisjohnson talking about going out with no deal. we are now proposing a second referendum to bring this to a close. if you want to never talk about brexit again, consider voting remain. applause emily's question, and she has been itching to get back in, and we will come to you in the grey hoodie. what have you heard, emily? the lib dems talk about values, but an important value is respect. you cannot respect votes by cancelling brexit. it upsets me because you are not
respecting democracy. jane dodds, you have had your hand up for the whole of that contribution. you trusted us to make about and then you say, actually, we will change out you say, actually, we will change our minds. do you know how we look to the rest of the world? we look embarrassing. we should have said, yeah, we are going to do it. let's just get on with it. there are other things that are far more important than brexit going on in this county, like health care and time slot —— things like that, and policing. you trusted us to make a decision. we can get it out of the way and focus on what is really important, people's lives. david davis said borisjohnson's deal is an excellent one, would you agree? i have not read it in detail, but at the moment he is the only one apart from the brexit party that is probably going to give us the choice, i don't trust corbyn and i never will. you have had your hand
up, the man of the argyle sweater. the remain panellists have dodged the question of democracy, wales voted overwhelmingly in the referendum to leave and you are always dodging and twisting and turning and trying to get out of it. it is quite wrong to try and push it onto a peoples vote. we had one, thatis onto a peoples vote. we had one, that is what the referendum was. thank you, thank you. we are going to be torque trust and faith in politics across the board in a moment —— we are going to talking about trust. we will do that later. i get fed up with the idea about the democratic will of the people, we have two parties who support brexit and you can't even agree what brexit is and nigel farage himself on the day of the election said if it is
52-48 it day of the election said if it is 52—48 it would not be a clear mandate for anything, and if the brexit party and the conservatives are so sure brexit party and the conservatives are so sure that people believe in brexit, give people the choice again, and the reason they don't wa nt to again, and the reason they don't want to is because they are afraid the people of change their mind once they have seen the mess that brexit has caused. cheering and applause he thinks you have changed your mind. there is no evidence at all of people having changed their mind. public opinion polls showed that equal representation for and against as there was in 1915, and the fact of the matter is, a peoples vote means nothing because we don't have any better judgment than means nothing because we don't have any betterjudgment than mps. why are you laughing? because there is a lot of evidence that people have changed their mind and if you are so confident that people are shot, put it back to the people. the fact is
we had a vote —— that people are sure. we have a clear idea now, and if boris johnson's do sure. we have a clear idea now, and if borisjohnson's do so wonderful, let the people decide, because the only reason they won't is because they know that people have started to change their mind and we need the choice now to what we believe. applause in the back row i can see someone with their hand up. you in the white top. surely the point is that when we voted before we did not know what we voted before we did not know what we we re we voted before we did not know what we were being offered in the way brexit said people were making a blind choice, they were choosing between remain and we knew the problems with europe, but with brexit we did not know what that was, so the point to have a really clear offer, this is the brexit that we are being offered, which i can see a couple of parties are offering, which we can vote on, and
if we still want to leave we can then vote for that, but we know the choice that we are making and we understand it but i can see with the conservatives, what they offered has changed over time. it is really different. thank you very much. a couple of clear themes, get on with brexit on the one hand and let's give people who have changed their mind a second chance, get on with brexit, that was the message of the first lot of questions. i'm not sure it was the message, it was a mixed message, and there is no silver bullet, let's be clear, there is no absolute that everyone is going to be happy with. the thing i'm most worried about is that we end up in a country divided and with people against each other and we have to do everything we can to make sure we bring people together because that is much more important, that we live with each other whatever our views.
jane dodds, thanks, we want to get some other views in. it is extraordinary that jane thinks the country can be brought together by telling 17.2 million people that they cannot have their say. that sort of language does not help. my language was perfectly respectful, it is not going to bring people together by telling them that they got it wrong. you ask about people changing their minds, we had an election in 2017 where the vast majority of people voted conservatives or labour who were pitching themselves as a brexit party and the liberal democrats got hardly any votes, but we are having an election now and those people who wa nt an election now and those people who want brexit know the one way to get it done is to vote conservative on the 12th of december and we will see who wins. it is time for the next question. the next question is from simon. everyday parents are forced
to make a choice about whether to feed their children, heat their homes or go food themselves, what would you do to help struggling families? you are a father? yes, i have nine children. what do you see when you drop your kids? teachers who are using part of their own salary to find the books that the children need. first and foremost we must rebalance our society and rebalance the distribution of wealth in the first point i would make it about having a real living wage, at least £10 an hour, so when people go to work they get some money to take home that is realistic, that is something which should be from the age of 16 and that is what we are saying because by the age of 25 which is the living age wage now you can be married with children and in this particular situation, that is first and foremost, and also reform
of universal credit, it is scandalous that after all of our asking the conservatives only reduced the six week weight to a five—week wait, five weeks is too long and people should be able to access the money much more quickly, and we need a complete reform of the system, so these are the fundamentals which we would put in place, and beyond that we want to make sure that we grow the economy and we make sure that young people have a full range of opportunities like apprenticeships and if they choose to go to university, that it would be without having to pay those huge fees which the liberal democrats aided and abetted the tories in bringing about, so what we wa nt tories in bringing about, so what we want is to make sure young people and people when they get into work can actually make work pay and rebalance the economy so that they can have what they need to heat their homes and feed their children. james wells. there definitely is a problem that, according to the welsh government 4000 food parcels were
handed out in the school holidays to children in wales this year and since april and september we have had 57,000 emergency food packages handed out to people in wales with 34% of those being because benefits have been delayed or people i changing benefits, so the universal credit system, the role that has beena credit system, the role that has been a disaster. conservatives should be ashamed of to be honest. what would you replace it with?m needs to be reformed, we need to deal with the issues it has got now so we need to cut down the period before people get paid to a minimum of five weeks if not shorter. we need a 12 month review of the whole syste m need a 12 month review of the whole system and then we need to bring in changes to that, but the other thing... not going back to brexit but the human rights watch says a no—deal brexit could leave families going hungry and charities that help them post to the limit, with a no—deal brexit if it really does
mean that be a price worth paying?|j don't mean that be a price worth paying?” don't believe the consequences will be that, but of course there will be a price because you can't align your economy in a union over 40 years and then leave and then not have an adjustment, 0k, then leave and then not have an adjustment, ok, so there will be, but... adjustment, ok, so there will be, but. . . what adjustment, ok, so there will be, but... what will the price be? i don't have a figure. anyone who tries to forecast economies, they always get it wrong. we were told thousands ofjobs would be lost and we would have a recession after we voted to leave but none of that happened and in fact we have the lowest employment ever at the moment, for the last 20, 30 years, so all of this scaremongering, i met with the head of the confederation of the nhs recently, lloyd nestor jones, she me that wales, the medicines in wales, they had enough stocks for two months and they would
be fine in a no deal, but the threat to stocks was actually people panicking, that is what she told me. i put that story out and the bbc runs stories telling us that stocks are going to run out. there is a lot of scaremongering going on. back to the question, i appreciate i did say brexit! what are you going to do about child poverty? the tory government because my own assessment of any brexit deal is —5.5% on the economy in wales. to come back to child poverty in wales, sadly what we find ourselves in wales is at the bottom of so many of the wrong league tables in terms of life expectancy falling and homelessness increasing and waiting times in many of our health trusts, including a&e, but the real tragedy icy, after management by welsh labour, in
charge of many aspects of social ca re charge of many aspects of social care “— charge of many aspects of social care —— the real tragedy i see. although wear fur has not been devolved and plaid cymru would cease of course for that to be devolved —— although welfare has not been devolved. one in three children in wales is living in well won poverty we would have a allowance of £35 a week to raise those children out of poverty. —— is living in poverty. you are spending a lot of money in this election. magic money trees are p°ppin9 this election. magic money trees are p°pping up this election. magic money trees are popping up everywhere. is it affordable, what you are going to do, for £1.2 billion, if a affordable, what you are going to do, for £1.2 billion, ifa uk government provides you with the taxes that you put in your ma nifesto, taxes that you put in your manifesto, you want a thousand more doctors, 5000 nurses, hundred dentists, 300 million for schools, £35 a week for families on low incomes, £25 a week for private
sector tenants, 1600 police officers. a lot of money. we have borisjohnson in officers. a lot of money. we have boris johnson in his officers. a lot of money. we have borisjohnson in his fantasy officers. a lot of money. we have boris johnson in his fantasy tell you what you want to hear what you can have a triple... there will be no increase in taxes. we have looked at the sort of increase which in england which would result in 1.6 billion per year, in wales, which would allow us to do this revenue spend that would make a difference to the lives of people in wales. wales remains within the uk, at the bottom of all the league tables, the poorest in terms of salaries, and in terms of need which the barnett formula does not meet at present, we need theirs to bring our communities and our children out of poverty. before we go back to the audience, a quick question on affordability of your policies, labour spending £28 for every pound offered by the conservative party in this election.
on the day after your manifesto you come up with an extra 58 billion for the wasabi women pensions, you are spending big time ——. the thing to say is that you need a labour government to change the policy and spending and we would be giving 3.4 billion to the welsh government for them to deliver on the devolved services and to make sure that we invest properly in those but we also talk about transforming our economy, how can it be fair that people who are disabled have lost their jobs be fair that people who are disabled have lost theirjobs have seen nine yea rs of have lost theirjobs have seen nine years of no increase to keep pace with inflation? the first time ever that the link between benefits and inflation has been broken whilst at the same time people at the top by doing very well, and we will tax people earning over 80,000 that little bit more so that we can make sure that people are not starving and not freezing. we will talk about that. no, i'm sorry, we have got to
go to the audience. part of ourjob and responsibility, doing a programme like this is to reality check what we are hearing. simon asked the question and mentioned that some teachers are having to pay for children's breakfasts that some teachers are having to pay for child ren's breakfasts and that some teachers are having to pay for children's breakfasts and no one has address that. is there going to be extra funding for schools? basic question. it was a question which specifically mentioned that but we will come to that in a moment. a man at the front now. if i could make us all aware of the rural deprivation which is in this area of wales. i don't want to go back to brexit but i will refer to the fact that a voice in europe from wales is very important for our moving forward because europe recognises the poor
countries and that is vitally important. there is no point injust pouring in money to feed the children, you have to have work in this area so that people can stand up this area so that people can stand up on theirown this area so that people can stand up on their own two feet and generate their wealth. 0k, up on their own two feet and generate their wealth. ok, thanks for joining generate their wealth. ok, thanks forjoining us. another question now. waving frantically in front of me. two points. you talk about medication and stockpiling. you must respect that primary services are only allowed to prescribe on a monthly or two monthly basis what is prescribe a bill for each patient. the problem is that the medication hasn't been coming into the country because people in business and corporate have been stockpiling in order to see which way prices go. so, let's get some of the nitty—gritty right. pembrokeshire is thought of as a rich county. people
work all god's hours to feed their children. they sweat and clean everything. even that money is not adequate to meet the families' needs because of rising electricity, heating, food, water rates, household rates. everybody has to pay these things. these things are rising, and that is why there is not enough food in the cupboard. follow—up question. do you think any of these politicians sitting alongside bethan and around the uk have any understanding of the reality of everyday life in pembrokeshire and across wales? we can always swap roles if you really wa nt can always swap roles if you really want to know something. i don't know their backgrounds. i wish they did. it depends on their background. the gentleman here. is it not time we looked at improving our nhs, our
police services, by looking at what money we are giving away to the eu ona money we are giving away to the eu on a daily basis? in 2018, it was £20 million a day, 38p coming back to the uk. foreign aid. we have children in poverty in the uk and we are giving money away to the eu for unelected commissioners to get a fat pension. we have kind of address that. picking up on some of the themes, interesting points about politicians understanding what is happening here. david davis, i'll come to you.” totally accept that poverty exists. i would never be complacent about that. the numbers living in poverty hasn't moved much over the last ten to 20 years. we need to do something to 20 years. we need to do something
to address this. the quickest way out of poverty is to ensure that people have work. as someone else pointed out, we have the lowest unemployment figures for around 40 years. we are looking to target tax cuts at those who are least well off, which is why we want to raise the threshold for national insurance, increase the national living wage. i want to see a conservative government governing from the centre, not from the right, and targeting help at those who need it most. i would contrast that very much with labour's ridiculous approach to spending, £1.2 trillion plus more over the weekend that they forgot to put in their manifesto. and frankly, it needs to be said, and unlimited immigration policy thatis and unlimited immigration policy that is sure to create more people who are even less well off. you say you understand poverty. the resolution foundation has said that child poverty could reach a 60 year high under a conservative
government, reaching 34% in a couple of years. i don't know if they are an independent charity, but i know that if you look at independent groups like fact check, you will see that the percentage rates of people in poverty haven't changed much. the real fact check, that is! i'm not complacent about it. i wouldn't deny that there is poverty. could it go 7 that there is poverty. could it go e that there is poverty. could it go up? we want to target the lowest paid. the people i want to see helped are those who are on the lowest incomes, and that is exactly what we should be doing. 0k. lowest incomes, and that is exactly what we should be doing. ok. you question the independence of the resolution foundation — what about dominic cummings, a man who lots of people say is running this country because mikey says tory mps largely do not care about those poorer people or about the nhs. —— running this country? as has happened in
every election since 1987, this country? as has happened in every election since1987, labour have said, we want to sell off —— labour have said that we want to sell off the nhs and privatise it. we do not. my father hasjust come out of hospital having had a serious illness. we would never privatise or sell off the national health service. we want to put billions more into it and we won't do what labour have done in this area, where we see them running down a hospital, taking out the paediatrics unit to wind it down. we want that money into wales and we want to see it spent properly on a local welsh national health service. applause 0k. the applause ok. the rain is pouring down in pembrokeshire. austerity, a tricky one for you, jane dodds, because now you might want to cancel poverty,
but you backed so many things when you were coalition partners with david cameron. i have gotta get out ofjail david cameron. i have gotta get out of jail card david cameron. i have gotta get out ofjail card because i wasn't part ofjail card because i wasn't part of that. i think we could have done much more to stand up to the conservative cuts when we in coalition. —— i have got a get out ofjailcard. coalition. —— i have got a get out ofjail card let's move on. i want to come back to the question, if i may. jane dodds, jane dodds, can i just ask you, jo swinson and ed davey were in that government and they are running your party now. are you ashamed of their actions when they were in government?” you ashamed of their actions when they were in government? i am clear and they are also mic that we could have done better and we should have stood up to the conservative cuts at the time. we are here nine years later and should be looking at what is happening right now and looking forward. we are the fifth largest economy in the world, and this is
the state we find ourselves in, with the state we find ourselves in, with the un rapporteur saying that we have this degree of poverty. we have to do more for our schools, we have to do more for our schools, we have to look at universal credit, which was supposed to be the benefits syste m was supposed to be the benefits system that would help people, and it isn't the safety net it was supposed to be. and we have to step back and pose that. we also have to see that we shouldn't have things like zero—hours see that we shouldn't have things like zero— hours contracts. see that we shouldn't have things like zero—hours contracts. we should be paying people an absolute minimum for the value of work that they get. we have to think about what sort of country do we want? we want people in worthwhile work that is full—time and well paid. and we have to aspire to that in every possible way we can come up with good education, a syste m come up with good education, a system that makes sure people have got aspirations and hope for the future. and that's what we should be aiming for in terms of a vision for the future. applause thank you very much. our next question, jason. it comes from rose.
i'd like to ask you all what your specific plans are for stopping the climate crisis. james wells. 0k, look, we have got an issue here with the climate, haven't we? i think co2 levels are definitely rising, all the science proves it, and when we turn our tvs the science proves it, and when we turn ourtvs on, the science proves it, and when we turn our tvs on, we can see forests being burnt around the world, so we have an issue. we also have plastics in the sea. so we need to do something. do you acknowledge that there is a man—made climate crisis? ido and there is a man—made climate crisis? i do and the party does. everybody in the party? i know who you are referring to. mr magill has his own views. he is positive about protecting the environment that he has his own personal views on whether it is man—made. has his own personal views on whether it is man-made. so he is wrong? i think years. we believe
that there man—made climate change from rising co2 levels. what we need to deal with that, one of the things nobody talks about is that we need to be planting millions of trees and not just to be planting millions of trees and notjust in this country but across the globe. we need to work with the un and work on an initiative to do that. also, our recycling infrastructure, at the moment, wales and the uk, we send a lot of our plastics and waste to other countries around the world to process. we have no idea where that ends up, and we can only guess, because it ends up in the sea. and thatis because it ends up in the sea. and that is wrong, because we should be creating infrastructure and investing here in greenjobs and processing all that rubbish and plastic here in the uk. liz savill roberts, what would you do for the climate? of course, we have to be
enabling across the uk what we can do to bring about the change that we needin do to bring about the change that we need in terms of decarbonisation. my party proposes a welsh green jobs revolution. there is so much we could do with the tidal lagoon that was proposed in swansea, but if we look at what has been done by the tory government, we don't have a single mile of electrified railway in wales. we saw that cancellation of the tidal lagoon in swansea. we should be looking at what central government and only central government and only central government could do in terms of infrastructure investment. what mccann would nuclear power be part of the green revolution? —— mccann would nuclear power be part of the green revolution? -- would nuclear power be part of the green revolution? it is a difficult issue for your party because it divide you. i represent an area that is
similar. we have the lowest paid jobs in the united kingdom. those jobs in the united kingdom. those jobs are going to go somewhere, and my party's policy is no new sites. if those jobs are going to go somewhere, i want them to go to communities that will benefit. yes to nuclear in anglesey? our policy is no new sites. if i canjust say, we have referred to labour's spent here, if! we have referred to labour's spent here, if i could reiterate, there are some sorts of expenditure that only central government can do. labour is proposing 100 billion of capital spend on these sorts of activity in scotland. that should be in labour's manifesto. 60 billion equivalent for wales. but now, labour is concentrating on scotland. the capital expenditure allocated for wales is zero. and look where the capital expenditure allocated from the tories on their manifesto, it is on the borders in the marshes
where they hope to win seats. nia griffiths, the welsh government declared a climate emergency, so what are you doing about that other than declaring it? we have a very clear plan and we want to be very bold about tackling climate change because we feel it is absolutely essential we get a move on now after the tories have wasted nine precious years, stopping wind farms in england, slashing the solar panel feed in tariff, which made a lot of people go bust. particularly in pembrokeshire, we would like to use the natural resources we have wave, wind, tide, son, in orderto generate renewable energy and have our green industrial revolution, that is, we produce clean energy to run our businesses so we reduce our carbon emissions at the same time as bolstering our industry. where does buying an airport fit into that, and
loaning more money to cardiff airport? in terms of cardiff airport, it is clearly a project being taken over by welsh government and is something that we want to see succeed, in the same way as we want to see our railway network succeed. is that the green thing to do? the point is, cardiff airport exists and we won't get rid of air travel overnight. of course, we need to look at the different ways that we can green the economy and start with the generation of renewable energy, and then that can help to fuel our industry. we have got to think about how we power our homes as well, and how we power our homes as well, and how we power our homes as well, and how we power our transport, road transport, where we clearly are committed to our roll—out of more electric cars. what we are saying is that as part of our transformational
fund, there will be money that will be invested in wales from that. there are some items which are devolved, and other items which are not devolved, where we would have equal access to those funds as other parts of the uk. so, there is money there, and we are definitely going to be investing in wales. what before i come to you again, let's go to the audience. —— before i come to you again, let's go to the audience. -- before i come to you again... the woman in the shoal, hello. all the parties are talking about planting and growing trees, and that would mean taking agricultural land out of production. we need to do some properjoined up thinking here, because 66% of land in wales that grows grass is used for feeding sheep and dairy cows. you talk about the burning down of the amazon, but we need to stop
importing these meat products from abroad and use great british grassland to graze stock. that grassland to graze stock. that grassland is the best form of carbon reduction, rather than growing trees. one more question. i wonder if you have any plans to incentivise current fossil fuel industries into switching to renewable ? let's ta ke let's take those points, bearing in mind this is all about the climate crisis, jane dodds? this is the most important issue we face and i have to say we have to work across all of the political parties in order to address this, this isn't about one party and it isn't about politics and we cannot play politics with the climate emergency. we have to get on with it, this is a choice we have to make, thank you for the point about growing trees and planting them, we
have to live and work with farmers and landowners to look at the best way we can do this and i think farmers and landowners are some of the best environmentalists we have and we have to listen to them. we have to look at everything we have, look at how we can invest in renewable energy and we have two divest from fossil fuels and i have to say i'm surprised that the conservative government have given approvalfor a new conservative government have given approval for a new coalmine conservative government have given approvalfor a new coalmine in cumbria. we should be pulling out of fossil fuels and we should not be investing any further. we should also be looking at putting the money that swansea tidal lagoon needs to start that off and we need to be really visionary and looking ahead in terms of green energy. it is a great point but the last coalmines to receive planning permission got back from a lib dems counsel so you
might want to bear that in mind, in terms of the original question, you are right, i'm amazed anyone could argue that carbon dioxide isn't a global warming gas and that therefore mankind isn't having an impact on the temperature. no conservative has ever suggested that. clearly carbon dioxide is affecting the climate. the question is what we do and in the uk we emit around 1% of carbon dioxide emissions so whatever we do will have no effect unless the rest of the world follows. that is why we have put forward a plan which will help us carbon neutral by 2050, not as ambitious as some, but what we don't want to do is to do something that would create a loss ofjobs in places like bridgend for example, and so we need to show that we can do this without cutting living standards and jobs so other countries follow. as a government you are in favour of the m4 relief
road and you are against electrification of the railway line to swansea and beyond and you stop the tidal lagoon, that doesn't sound very green? a commissioner said the m4 relief road would be neutral on the environment because the amount of emissions coming out of cars at the moment, and the electrification was looked at carefully but it was shown that it would not have made any travel journeys faster between swa nsea any travel journeys faster between swansea and cardiff. it is not about the speed, though, is it? in terms of the lagoon, the developer came in before a committee with a labour chair as well as myself and admitted after a lot of questions that it would have cost hundred £50 per megawatt to create the electricity which is significantly more than hinckley which labour said was too much to pay even for carbon neutral electricity so if we are going to go carbon neutral we are going to have to a cce pt carbon neutral we are going to have to accept that nuclear plays a part
in that and it will mean all of us having to go along with things that maybe we would not automatically wa nt maybe we would not automatically want but i would say to anyone, and i'm as much a conservative as anyone, but it would be fantastic in 20 or 30 years time if we are driving around in electric cars and the air will be clean and the planet will be in a better shape. is that going to be a pledge?” will be in a better shape. is that going to be a pledge? i would love to have an electric car. now to the next question. ourfinal to have an electric car. now to the next question. our final question. look out. what are you going to do to restore our faith in politics and our trust in politicians? david davis. applause —— david davies. davis. applause -- david davies. first and foremost we must carry out the promises that we must carry out the promises that we make in manifestos in meetings like this. you have heard me say
very clearly tonight and i will stand by this, we will get brexit done by the end ofjanuary and we will never get rid of our nhs, the jewelled on the ground, and much else besides, but i also think politicians have a responsibility to think about the language they use. —— the jewel in the crown but they are candidates standing who have made speeches saying they would celebrate the death of tony blair —— but they are candidates. people who have said they would celebrate this and have said they have celebrated the death of margaret thatcher. we have a slate of candidates male and female, almost 50% female, not quite, in the conservatives, and from different ethnic and religious backgrounds and i'm proud to be part of the team and that is the face of modern wales and that is how a modern wales and that is how a modern political party should be presenting itself. on the use of language, nicky morgan, the use of
language, nicky morgan, the use of language, she says on live television 50,000 more nurses and it turns out that 18,500 of them are existing nurses. existing nurses who might leave, but what it shows, you are right to ask me about it, we have said we want to go from 280,000 nurses at the moment to 330,000, so ina sense... nurses at the moment to 330,000, so in a sense... it erodes trust. it is right that you ask about this but i can also say that as an english policy and what we know very well is that the money will automatically come to wales and we need to make sure that the welsh assembly government to spend the money on our national health service and don't put this into some of the projects they have done which have lost millions of pounds of taxpayers money. we are comfortable with the fa ct money. we are comfortable with the fact that the twitter handle of the conservatives press office was changed during the leaders debate?
it was an enthusiastic move by somebody somewhere! it is probably not something i would have done myself. would you apologise? if people want to talk about lies, that is outrageous, i'm being told we wa nt to is outrageous, i'm being told we want to be selling off the nhs and that there is a secret plan, but that there is a secret plan, but that will never happen. other people need to address their behaviour. james wells? the brexit party slogan is chain politics for good and that is chain politics for good and that is why i got into politics. —— change. we have at the mp5 expense candles and mp5 after the financial crash making all sorts of promises “ expenses crash making all sorts of promises —— expenses scandals. and then they have loaded the cost on to the people who can least afford it and then we have had brexit over the la st then we have had brexit over the last four years and is a party what we want to see is a reform of the voting system because we have millions of people in the uk that do
not have a voice at the moment because of the first past the post system, we want to abolish the house of lords and have an elected second chamberand we want of lords and have an elected second chamber and we want recall petitions so if mps just chamber and we want recall petitions so if mstust decide tojump ship to another party they have to go back to the electorate and get that reaffirmed. exactly, exactly. very quickly on that. the assembly members who have switched... let me explain, we have 4ams in the welsh assembly and they were ukip but they became the brexit party and because of the voting system, proportional representation, you can't go back to the election. do we need to change the election. do we need to change the rules? yes, we do. we have a track record with welsh labour in government from 2011 until 2016 delivering on the promises of the 2011 manifesto and we're on track
now to do the same with the manifesto that we put forward in 2016. what about the m4 relief road? you cancelled that that was in your manifesto. we have met the commitments we put in there, and i have to say that your party has no track record whatsoever in government. no track record whatsoever. that is because we are not in government yet. very briefly, we have got to go to the audience. the chief rabbi said that your lead is not fit for high office, he hasn't apologised tonight. —— your leader. should he have apologised? jeremy corbyn has arranged to meet the chief rabbi and i would say we need to apologise to our colleagues in my own party who have been very upset but to the whole of the jewish community, that we have not been as effective as we should have been in
dealing with this problem. it is a shame on us, it really is, this is something that i'm very ashamed of and it's something we absolutely must put right. would you like mr corbyn to apologise? he will meet with the chief rabbi and i'm sure they will be very important discussions. back to the audience. remember, this is about trust and faith in politicians, so we will now go to you and then back to patrick and then some of the younger members of the audience whatjeremy corbyn and boris johnson made of the audience whatjeremy corbyn and borisjohnson made a promise to make politics more collaborative and a better environment, where you live up a better environment, where you live up to this promise? —— will you live up up to this promise? —— will you live up to. patrick, your question inspired the debate. a couple of suggestions, to politicians, stop lying, don't insult our intelligence, we are not stupid, we know where you are. secondly, to
people voting, if you know that the person that is your number—1 choice lying, don't vote for them, vote for your second choice, and let's get rid of all these people. now the man in the check shirt and the woman in the blouse. the point about the fact checker uk handle, i know that you are trying to gain trust in young vote rs are trying to gain trust in young voters because you are losing out on them and that was a complete copout and you are trying to brainwash the youth who read social media. thank you. i'm an nhs work and i work in the local hospital and i speak for most of pembrokeshire when i say the thing that would reinstate our trust in politicians is if someone would stand up for our hospital. one more person. young man come off you go.
before the last general election jeremy corbyn said he would do something towards free tuition and art of the general election he denied it and then now he says he will do it again —— and after the general election. what is it? we have a couple of minutes. work together and stop lying, that is what the people want, not you personally. i have been in politics for three months and being an parliament in that time i was deeply ashamed and shocked of the behaviour i saw, and we need to change it, we cannot carry on, we have to be working together more and we have to trust each other, you have to be able to trust us if we say something we are going to do we do it, we absolutely have to be upfront and honest and finally we do have to work together because we don't all have the solution to everything. we all need to be working together to get to the point that we want to see in terms of a better society.
thanks. liz saville—roberts. in terms of a better society. thanks. liz saville— robertsm in terms of a better society. thanks. liz saville-roberts. it is evident that people are fed up with the personality driven soap opera, slogans of politics, and i think as a society we need to see what politics is for, it is notjust the professional politicians we need to bring forward new pioneering ideas like citizens conventions, votes at 16, proportional representation, it is notjust us 16, proportional representation, it is not just us who sit 16, proportional representation, it is notjust us who sit here, this is about everyone, all our lives, and in this divided society, 52—48, that is divided but somehow we have got to make society work because politics is how we live together. thank you very much to all of our panellists. that is it for tonight. we will be in wrexham on the 3rd of decemberfor we will be in wrexham on the 3rd of december for the next election debate and if you would like to put your question to our panel please
hello, i'm ros atkins, this is outside source. britain's two main political parties are both being accused of racism. the uk's most seniorjewish leader has attacked the labour party's record on anti—semitism, saying a poison has taken root. leaderjeremy corbyn says there's no place for anti—jewish hatred, but refused to apologise. i am determined that our society will be safe for people of all faiths. i don't want anyone to be feeling insecure in our society, and our government will protect every community. meanwhile, the muslim council of britain says borisjohnson's conservative party is in denial and deceit over the issue of islamaphobia.