tv Dateline London BBC News November 21, 2020 11:30am-12:01pm GMT
and as borisjohnson polishes up the british sword ready to rattle it again, is trump binding biden's hands? joining us: stephanie baker, an american, is senior writer with bloomberg. janet daley, american by birth, but long resident in the uk, is a columnist on the sunday telegraph. with me in the studio, the bbc‘s diplomatic correspondent, paul adams. there's a british joke buses which could readily be applied to vaccines against coronavirus: you wait for ages without seeing one, then they all come at once. last week it was pfizer—biontech, this week moderna as well as astra—zeneca, the manufacturer of a vaccine being developed in oxford here in the uk. the bus in london is neither as frequent or as popular as it was, as england is still in lockdown. though the political discussion throughout the uk is over how to have a covid—safe christmas
rather than a covid—friendly one, the global debate is whether santa's sleigh will deliver vaccine for all. stephanie, there are some interesting statistics on theirs. joe biden has said it will be available for all americans free of charge and the british about i think about 335 million doses of seven different vaccines. what are some countries want to miss out altogether? yes, that's the real question and it depends which vaccines actually get approved and across the finish line. pfizer's vaccine which they just across the finish line. pfizer's vaccine which theyjust acquired for emergency use in the us, that is incredibly difficult to distribute worldwide because of the extreme storage requirements for it. i need to be kept at —75 celsius. i think that will be incredibly difficult to roll out in low and middle income countries with weak health care system is incredibly difficult to
distribute worldwide because of the extreme storage requirements for it. i need to be kept at —75 celsius. i think that will be incredibly difficult to roll out in low and middle income countries with weak health care systems and unreliable power supplies. you know, so, i think the big question is, you know, the more vaccines that are proven effective, the better chance we have of rolling out vaccines worldwide. i think the big problem is manufacturing consent is, if we only have one or two vaccines it is incredibly hard to ramp up production to a level that we need it. we were speaking to someone the other day who likened vaccine manufacturing to the car industry and it has an incredibly complex global supply chain. i think that is the thing that were going to be talking about in the weeks and months ahead. you know, for the uk, they've ordered a0 million of the pfizer vaccine, only 10 million will arrive by the end of the year. all the leading candidates are to those regiments, which makes it even more challenging from a manufacturing
point of view. in the uk, that means only 5 million people by the end of the year will be able to get vaccinated, and that will only include the first stage elderly people in care homes, health workers and then by age going down, over 80, over 75, over 65. but and then by age going down, over 80, over75, over 65. but it and then by age going down, over 80, over 75, over 65. but it won't be enough for several months. until we get more vaccines approved a more manufacturing online. paul, the logistical challenges are considerable. we have 0xfam, i think, saying during the course of the week the estimated about 30% of the week the estimated about 30% of the global population, or countries representing i3% of the global population had already signed up more than 50% of the doses from the five vaccines that have actually got clinical trial stage. 0n five vaccines that have actually got clinical trial stage. on that basis, how is the rest of the world is going to be helpedit something boris
johnson is talking about this weekend at the 620 summit. vaccine nationalism, it is the place we've already heard and i think we will hear a lot more of it. when you bear mind that kovacs, this collection of countries and organisations public and private partnerships, trying to generate 2 billion doses by the end of 2021, which the recognition of the bags in a 20% of the global population. chief executive this programme says that if the first 2 billion doses are distributed proportionally by national population, worldwide deaths would reduce by 60%. that rate as a whole host of questions, how do you proportionally distributed? do you say you have x percentage of the
global population and the distribution issues stephanie reyes? bill gates was talking about that in the us alone this week, reckoning that the situation there was incredibly dysfunctional will stop we have achieved this extraordinary thing. now the question is, how do you bake that cake and give it to everyone in the world? everybody wa nts a everyone in the world? everybody wants a slice, janet. astrazeneca has said developing countries will get two thirds of the doses available for as vaccine. in a sense, there is some self interest and all of this. if we want global trade to properly restart, certainly we wa nt trade to properly restart, certainly we want global travel to restart, there is no pointing to purple countries, look, you willjust have to deal, live with covid, because one way or another it will come back to the developed countries, too. there is absolutely no question in my mind that this will be distributed in an effective way
within, i would say, six months max, but can i just within, i would say, six months max, but can ijust introduce maybe as a wider, more speculative dimension to this, that one of the reasons it has so this, that one of the reasons it has so enormously lifted the sense of public optimism and morale is that there has been an extraordinary, almost medieval kind of fear and superstition that has prevailed since this apparently incomprehensible evil force was unleashed on the world from we know not where specifically. now there is the sense there has been a try if you like, human intellect, the kind of progress that we've always expected since the age of reason. human ingenuity has triumphed. that sense of powerlessness that prevailed, even in the most advance, developed and wealthy countries, where it seemed as if this bizarre plague could only be appeased by
giving up the things that were most precious to our lives, contact with loved ones, companionship, basic freedoms that we have taken for granted in the western countries, anyway, for over 150 years. suddenly we seem anyway, for over 150 years. suddenly we seem to be back on familiar ground where human intelligence can actually get a grip on this —— i have no doubt we will be sorted out. probably sadly more slowly in some parts of the world than others, but this overwhelming sense of sort of philosophical relief, if you like, i think that is one of the things, evenif think that is one of the things, even if it is not conscious or articulated, that has raised the sense of public optimism in such an extraordinary way. and if nothing else, that would be good for our collective mental health. stephanie, one interesting question that has raised in the united states applies to other countries, the role of the
anti—baxters, those that are convinced that vaccination isn't evil in itself. i saw figures done at the end of september that suggest only about 50%, even if it was free, would sign up for it. that had fallen from a figure of about 66%. how on earth the governments, more importantly, the rest of us combat that that? yes, you know, i interviewed the head of operation of trump's project to get vaccine and he said that was the main worry on his mind, there is no use in having a vaccine if no one is going to take it. i think there needs to be a coordinated public education campaign and messaging around a vaccination programme, to counteract this. i think it is going to be incredibly difficult, because of the amount of disinformation circulating on social media. i don't think that governments around the world are put enough attention on this very issue. hopefully as these vaccines go
through the regulatory process and the safety data is poured over by experts, we will get increasing amounts of information as people get vaccinated. hopefully there will not be any problems and people will be eager to get their shot as a way of resuming their normal lives. i do think that people will be eager to resume, get back a sense of normalcy to their lives, and that will be a driver behind vaccination. i would echo what janet says, i think this isa echo what janet says, i think this is a huge leap for science, that they were able to come up with a vaccine in ten months' time against a completely new virus. although it has been done at an incredible speed, i think they are put incredible care on safety, gone through all the hoops in terms of
pausing trials when it needed to happen, checking safety, you know... and the trials themselves are relatively large. hopefully that will go some ways towards combating the act see —— and he backs —— the anti—vaccination thing. the act see —— and he backs —— the anti-vaccination thing. the anti—vaccination thing seems like a product of the age, i think this terrible plague has actually crystallised this terrible, irrational sort of anxiety that extends into the anti—vaccination campaign. thanks for that. borisjohnson has pledged to end what he called the "era of retreat" by increasing spending on defence by £16.5 billion — about $22 billion dollars — over four years. in a statement to mps thursday, the british prime minister said this would allow the uk "to join
the united states and our other allies to defend free and open societies". which suggests mrjohnson is already pivoting towards the incoming administration in washington. after all, this was the week donald trump announced he was bringing home 2000 of the a500 americans serving in afghanistan. the same number will return from iraq, too. 0ne insider told a us network the outgoing team is trying to set so many fires it'll be hard for the biden administration to put them all out. janet, how big a challenge does this represent forjoe biden? forjoe biden? sorry, ithought represent forjoe biden? forjoe biden? sorry, i thought he would say for borisjohnson. just biden? sorry, i thought he would say for boris johnson. just as a footnote, i don't think boris is pivoting to stroll biden, i think is pivoting to stroll biden, i think is pivoting towards half of his party. imean, he pivoting towards half of his party. i mean, he did the green energy package for one half of his party, or not even half, but a proportion of it, and now this military spendingl of it, and now this military spending i think has been planned, he has had in his mind for quite some time. i think it is to do with
satisfying a considerable wing of the conservative party which is felt that the cuts in defence spending we re that the cuts in defence spending were illjudged, especially in the current state of affairs. the joe biden, trump business, by withdrawing troops, you have to rememberjoe withdrawing troops, you have to remember joe biden was withdrawing troops, you have to rememberjoe biden was vice president under barack 0bama, who was also an isolationist, in his way. his failure to intervene in syria had phenomenally destructive consequences and he was also planning to withdraw troops from iraq and afghanistan. it's very debatable as to whetherjoe biden will actually, although he wants to do, he wants america to participate much more in nato and so on in ways that we would welcome, it is not really clear whether he would be a military interventionist any more than barack 0bama was. and trump is obviously doing wildly irresponsible things by withdrawing so quickly and
leaving the chaos in its wake, but so did the previous democratic administration. this has always been administration. this has always been a big strain in american politics, isolationism. it is not absolutely unique to trump. stephanie, some of the options thatjoe biden has fleshed out, for example we know he will rejoin the climate change arrangement, the so—called paris agreement. that won't come as any great surprise. you want to re—establish america's role in the iran nuclear agreement. i was talking to a man who had been deputy to stay and work with the president said that some of the things trump is they might play tojoe biden's advantage, like tightening restrictions against iran, biden has more leverage to get them to be more cooperative than perhaps they were last time. that is true and biden will face difficulty rejoining the
iran nuclear deal. he said he will only do so if iran returns to compliance. he is facing a huge crisis in iran. the stockpile of enriched uranium has surged under the trump administration, since trump withdrew from the deal, sway facing real challenges there. the question is whether or not he is politically able to reverse some of the things trump has put in place, whether that is possible or whether or not, as you say, in reverse a good sound a bit more leveraged to try and strike a deal with iran, which is now quite desperate and suffering from economic sanctions. there is one example, i think trump put sanctions on thanks providing military aid to iran, that is an easy one to flip. there are ones are
more politically difficult for him to do. going back to the issue of uk- us to do. going back to the issue of uk— us relations, if borisjohnson really wa nts uk— us relations, if borisjohnson really wants to get into biden was my good books, defence spending is not really the way to go. making sure he has a brexit plan that does not threaten the good friday agreement, biden is irish catholic, he is said very clearly he will not move forward with a us trade deal if the terms of brexit threaten peace in northern ireland, so i think that is incredibly important thing. broadly speaking, i think boris johnson and joe biden to have common ground on things like climate change, iran and perhaps even china, where i think they may share common policy folds and biden is in any position to build an international front to take on beijing on a number of different issues. i just want to
come in and that, there certainly is an issue about the irish border and the peace agreement and so on, but the peace agreement and so on, but the special relationship, as it's called, between the united states and britain, the most important aspect of that, and the reason it is notjust a aspect of that, and the reason it is not just a sentimental trope, aspect of that, and the reason it is notjust a sentimental trope, the most important aspect of that is that the uk and the us are the leaders of the five out security network, they are the most important force, especially at the moment when terrorism is such a threat, they are not going to abandon one another. the cooperation and the bond between their security agencies and the rest of the anglophone security network isa of the anglophone security network is a huge, hugely important. i don't think that anything, brexit or the northern ireland peace agreement, whatever, exactly going to interfere with that. paula stock about boris johnson's defence plan, this is enhancing the hard part —— paul, let's talk about. 0bviously enhancing the hard part —— paul, let's talk about. obviously it is a long term plan over many years.
criticism over the handling of soft power about two of his predecessors, tony blair and david cameron, saying the proposal is the aid budget, the international development budget, the department has orally been axed, would actually undermine that. david cameron even uses the word retreat, picking up exactly on the word that boris johnson used in defence. we haven't yet seen exactly what the consequences are in terms of the aid budget. there seems to bea terms of the aid budget. there seems to be a general belief aid is going to be a general belief aid is going to pay a bit of a price, at least in the short—term. perhaps is not entirely surprising. there's also some scepticism, a little bit, about how this new money on defence is going be spent. is it going to be genuinely transformational in the way that might affect the way british forces can operate in the world and exert power in the future
or not? that is not my field of expertise. i think there will be those who say that's supper should not be paying the price at the moment. and that this feeds into the whole debate about the vaccine and how countries, how their attitudes are towards developing countries and how they can be assisted in watches but the recovery from a pandemic but also massive economic battle. take the case of africa at the moment, by and large not suffering hugely from the coronavirus pandemic, but pitting an enormous economic pace with organisations now saying that the drivers for migration north, as a result of the economic meltdown in africa generated by coronavirus is one more reason we should be paying attention to those aspects, rather than making idle posts about
throwing our military weight around. that is an interesting point. that is something david cameron picked up in his remarks, janet. he talks about the 0.7% target, the un target that was in when they met in 2013. 0.7% of gdp to be spent on international development. he said, basically, he said this to your sister paper the telegraph today, its enlightened self interest, this is tony blair, now the challenge of climate covid could be met with africa, nor could those of extremism and uncontrolled migration. to change it is a profound strategic mistake. nobody is saying foreign aid is going to stop. the thing that david cameron that which was unique historically was to actually say that target of seven per spent two ce nt that target of seven per spent two cent spending —— 7% spending. extraordinary things were given
money at the last minute in order to meet the target. we are all familiar with this kind of spending target when local authorities, they spend it on, you know, sort of stupid or unnecessary things. if you have a target that must be met, whatever yourgdp is, target that must be met, whatever your gdp is, however higher low, it does lead to misjudgments very often. to talk about throwing r often. to talk about throwing weaponry all around, we are talking as well about being able to protect foreign countries, we are being able to talk about co—operating with foreign countries and protecting themselves. having our capability, our military capability enhanced is notjust in our own interest, it is an interest of all our allies and more, it is notjust a question of wanting lots of tory guns let's move
on finally, like a couple of minutes too late if you talk about things we may be haven't paid enough attention to. stepney, do you want kick off? another consequence of the trump administration approach that could yet still have an impact, even if increasing number of states are saying no, he has lost the election. well... i was going to raise the whole issue of what trump was trying to do on his way out the door. basically he does seem to want to go out guns blazing and light a fire as he walks out. one of the things that he walks out. one of the things that he announced this week was pushing ahead with this whole issue of selling rights to drill in the
alaska's arctic refuge, which is trying to get done before inauguration on january 20. trying to get done before inauguration onjanuary 20. now it looks difficult for him to achieve that, but if he is able to get that done and signed off, it turns into another headache and court battle that dyed it needs to clean up when he gets his feet under the desk. —— that biden needs to clean up. it is huge battle and has been for years. this is one of the greatest expanses of untouched land in the us, so it has huge consequences, and is a real threat to biden's whole climate change agenda. he has a very ambitious plans to push ahead with the $2 trillion green initiative and, you know, how far he can get and, you know, how far he can get and that is a real question. this is one attempt to try and stop him from pushing ahead with that. janet, the mere fact he is challenging the result is something you have a bit
ofa result is something you have a bit of a beef with. .. yeah, it is extraordinary. this performance, this narcissistic frenzy we are getting at the end... i mean, the orderly transfer of power from one elected government to the next is a fundamental principle of democracy. this is very serious. we tend to treat it, the cynicaljournalist that we are, as an opera, but it is not funny. when you think the founding documents of the united states where probably the finest expression of the enlightenment idea of democracy, that have ever been produced, and he is trashing nine two of them. this idea, is he going to have to be escorted of the premises? i have never known a case, an ex—president not attending the inaugural of the next one. it is ha rd inaugural of the next one. it is hard to believe he would given the
performances putting on now. and the republicans are in a terrible bind, because if they denounce him, although they are getting close to it, some senior republicans are getting close to, then they are in danger of alienating this whole new constituency he has brought in for their party. it is a bit like the tories with the constituency here. they have breached working—class constituencies in rust belt constituencies in rust belt constituencies that they could never have touched without trump's personality, and as a result, they find it very difficult to sort of separate themselves, to alienate him entirely. and making trouble. this isa very entirely. and making trouble. this is a very difficult position for the republicans define themselves in. paul, 30 seconds to tell is one more thing. a quick word about the paper in 2000 merchant seamen. i notice this weeks are more repatriated the first of several flights of the
samoan merchant seamen who had been stranded at sea since this virus began. many saying they are used to spending long times at sea, spending 18 months, two years at sea. these are the very people that keep the cogs of global trade going. many of them are paying a very high price. thank you all very much. that's it for dateline london for this week — we're back next week at the same time. goodbye. hello there.
we have a change to cooler weather conditions taking place this weekend but before the cooler air arrives across england and wales, we have a lot of cloud to come through the day today, so clouds like these pretty widespread. the cooler air will be arriving behind this cold front, that's been bringing rain earlier today across scotland and northern ireland and as that continues to push southward through the weekend, you will notice those temperatures dropping away with the cooler air last to arrive across the far south of england during sunday. here is the cold front, bringing rain to northern ireland and scotland. it will tend to turn lighter and patchy as it works its way across northern england and into wales as well. a lot of cloud to the south, still an occasional spit of rain in the air. for northern ireland, scotland and the far north of england, it brightens up a bit, some showers, still some strong winds, those winds could gust to around 50 or 60 miles an hour into shetland through the rest of the day today. mild in the south of england and wales, 12 to 13 degrees quite widely. cool air spreading in scotland,
northern ireland and the far north of england as well. through saturday evening and overnight, the cold front pushes southwards taking the cloud and the light rain and drizzle with it. the skies clear for a time across wales and the midlands with temperatures dropping away here. further showers for scotland and northern ireland, still with some fairly strong winds and certainly feeling cold given the strength of those winds overnight as well. 0n into sunday, a day of sunshine and showers again for scotland and northern ireland. much brighter weather for northern england, wales, the midlands and east anglia with some sunshine and that sunny weather should arrive across the far south of england probably later in the day. temperatures dropping, highs of 7—10 celsius on sunday. the cooler air doesn't last too long because on monday, the next area of low pressure moves in, warm front pushes across the uk, winds turn to a south—westerly direction and, that said, on monday morning, we start off on a cold note, probably some patches of frost around.
as that milder air works in, we see some low cloud, hill fog patches across wales and the pennines with some damp weather here. more general rain for scotland and northern ireland. turning milder in the south—west, i3 in plymouth but still quite chilly across the north—east of scotland. into tuesday, the milder air spreads right the way across the country before it turns colder again mid—week.
this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. republican officials in two states re—confirm joe biden's victory. another setback for donald trump in his attempts to overturn his losses in the us election. the british home secretary, priti patel, keeps herjob after being found to have broken rules by bullying staff. now questions for borisjohnson, over his influence on the report. a rocket attack on the afghan capital, kabul. at least eight people have been killed and more than 30 injured. an online summit of the world's biggest economies begins today in saudi arabia. top of the agenda — the coronavirus pandemic and its economic fallout. the professional footballers' association in the uk calls