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tv   Our World  BBC News  August 15, 2021 2:30pm-3:01pm BST

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back in 2010, and with the wikileaks back in 2010, and with the wikileaks back in 2010, and with the wikileaks back in 2010, and with the special inspector general for afghanistan, they have been reporting net relentlessly. that the afghan security forces are not going to be capable, relying on that, i was senior officials knew it. that is something that is going to have to be... and if we continue to pretend it wasn't, someone has to answer for that because thousands of people have now put their lives and god only knows what happens when they get under complete taliban rule. ~ , ,., ~' they get under complete taliban rule. ~ , , ., they get under complete taliban rule. ~ ., ~ ., rule. when i spoke to afghan leadership. _ rule. when i spoke to afghan leadership, they _ rule. when i spoke to afghan leadership, they saw - rule. when i spoke to afghan leadership, they saw the - rule. when i spoke to afghan - leadership, they saw the departure of americans as inevitable. they thought they would be a small counterterrorism force in the country, but eventually the united states would go. it is more in the
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way in which the exit strategy was implemented, there really was no plan as far as they were concerned. that illustrates a second problem. although i have plenty of scorn to heap on, the other side is the afghan leaders, both political and military, were equally responsible for this because they failed to take advantage of the opportunity to get corruption under control and to focus on making a strong security force, notjust on using it to make money and get power for various warlords and various other people. to your second point, i very strongly agree because i have been arguing since 2017 that we should announce our withdrawal and continue with another 18 to 2a months of support at that same level, give everybody a chance to get their mind wrapped around this, to understand they will be responsible, to coordinate everything so it is done in a very professional and logical manner. unfortunately that did not happen. we had a chance, when the
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deal was made in february 2020, we had 111 months to do it, but the pentagon didn't want to get out, so they dragged theirfeet pentagon didn't want to get out, so they dragged their feet and they didn't take any action. i think they thought thatjoe biden would continue the mission like the other presidents had done and when he finally did make that call that is the one error that presidentjoe biden did make. he didn't even put in a 12 month period. hejust said, we are living right now and there was complete chaos because from sources i have on the ground in afghanistan many of the leaders were told by the pentagon leaders, don't worry, we will still be here, things will be fine, don't worry. when the plug got pulled they were all shocked and no one was prepared. and shocked and no one was prepared. and now for many months the un and us treasury has said that the taliban are still very much in bed, if you are, with al-qaeda. do you think there is the possibility that the
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united states would be forced back into the country like they were in iraq? into the country like they were in ira: ? ., into the country like they were in ira i ? ., ., into the country like they were in ira: ? . . ., into the country like they were in iran? . . ., ., ' iraq? there are a lot of different views on that. _ iraq? there are a lot of different views on that. there _ iraq? there are a lot of different views on that. there is - iraq? there are a lot of different i views on that. there is intelligence that contradicts that. it says they are very much and off on that. the taliban are not stupid. they have spent 20 years trying to get back into power. the last thing they will do is to jump into power. the last thing they will do is tojump into bed and allow themselves to be used as a platform to defend terrorism with the united states, knowing sure that we would not hesitate to rain down fire and fury on them again. even if we did not invade, they know that we could wreak havoc on them they are not ready to give up the power they are on the threshold of gaining. we didn't need to stay in afghanistan to keep america or europe save, or our nato allies say. we can do that
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through many other ways through our ability to project power, and intelligence and reconnaissance all over the world because afghanistan is one tiny place in a whole world of possibilities where terrorists can be planted and we have to protect ourselves from terrorism everywhere. i don't... if protect ourselves from terrorism everywhere. i don't. . ._ protect ourselves from terrorism everywhere. i don't. .. everywhere. i don't... if you were to look at— everywhere. i don't... if you were to look at this _ everywhere. i don't... if you were to look at this completely - everywhere. i don't... if you were to look at this completely cold, i to look at this completely cold, militarily, given the united states and its western allies didn't seem to have a clear—cut policy and they followed what our other guests have said was a failed policy, do you think you could say then that the taliban deserve to win?- think you could say then that the taliban deserve to win? well, if you take the morality _ taliban deserve to win? well, if you take the morality out _ taliban deserve to win? well, if you take the morality out of _ taliban deserve to win? well, if you take the morality out of it, - taliban deserve to win? well, if you take the morality out of it, there . take the morality out of it, there is no question that they have been laser focus on what they are doing. something else to point out here is this collapse did not happen just
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because we pulled out a month or so ago and suddenly they marched on everything. this has been a very methodical strategy and are carefully executed plan going back to 2017. you can see a very methodical taking of district level organisations and groups and territory and that accelerated into vicinities and provinces and once a collapse did start, they accelerated their play. they already had a really good plan in place and from a military perspective it has been fairly impressive and very much in contrast to our inability to even come up with a good plan, and i am being honest about the failures. haw being honest about the failures. how is the veteran _ being honest about the failures. how is the veteran community, and i know you can't speak for everyone, in general how are they reacting? we have heard veteran say my heart was broken when i saw kandahar fall. my heart was broken when i saw them marching towards kabul. i have lost colleagues and friends in this war
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and it has been incredibly difficult to see them roaming around our bases. how have they responded and reacted? what have their mother said to you? what have they actually said to you? what have they actually said to you? what have they actually said to you? me to you? what have they actually said to ou? ~ , ., to you? what have they actually said to ou? g ., . .,, to you? what have they actually said to ou? g ., . ., ., to you? my own observations are of the very same _ to you? my own observations are of the very same thing _ to you? my own observations are of the very same thing with _ to you? my own observations are of the very same thing with regards i to you? my own observations are of the very same thing with regards to j the very same thing with regards to the very same thing with regards to the city of kandahar and in kabul. all these places that i have been to before. i was headquartered in bagram and to see all of those areas with the taliban roaming around is frankly languishing. i also lost friends in afghanistan to being killed in action and it is really tough to swallow and a lot of my friends are also finally wanting to ask the more bitter question of why were our leaders are telling us this stuff was working all along? now we realise it wasn't. you might see some building momentum in that regard in the coming weeks and months. the veterans are starting to ask the hard questions because we
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were always told every time someone died that he did a great service for the united states, he helped protect us and he did a greatjob on the battlefield and now they say none of that was true and it was all literally evaporated. there will have to be a reckoning and somebody will have to answer for some of this. ., will have to answer for some of this. . ., ., this. lieutenant colonel daniel davies, thank _ this. lieutenant colonel daniel davies, thank you _ this. lieutenant colonel daniel davies, thank you very - this. lieutenant colonel daniel davies, thank you very much. | this. lieutenant colonel daniel. davies, thank you very much. we this. lieutenant colonel daniel- davies, thank you very much. we are getting news coming in that i am seeing on the wires. but again there is uncertainty about a lot of this news coming in. writers agency is reporting that afghanistan's largest news network has reported that the afghan president ashraf ghani has left the country. but we don't have any more information on that. writers agency. just getting that bit of news from reuters news agency and they are reporting afghanistan's
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largest television network is saying that the president, ashraf ghani, has left the country. charlie faulkner is a journalist and kabul. there are a lot of rumours swirling at the moment, especially on social media, but is there anything you can tell us about this bit of news that has just been reported? tell us about this bit of news that hasjust been reported? i tell us about this bit of news that hasjust been reported?- tell us about this bit of news that hasjust been reported? i know as much as you _ hasjust been reported? i know as much as you do — hasjust been reported? i know as much as you do at _ hasjust been reported? i know as much as you do at the _ hasjust been reported? i know as much as you do at the moment. l hasjust been reported? i know as i much as you do at the moment. we hasjust been reported? i know as - much as you do at the moment. we are watching the wires together. rumours of his resignation have been circulating for a number of days now. not that it comes as any great shock if that is the case. tell now. not that it comes as any great shock if that is the case.— shock if that is the case. tell me what is going — shock if that is the case. tell me what is going on _ shock if that is the case. tell me what is going on in _ shock if that is the case. tell me what is going on in kabul. - shock if that is the case. tell me what is going on in kabul. havel shock if that is the case. tell me i what is going on in kabul. have you been able to get out of your residency there and go out into the streets at all?— streets at all? yes, so i was out this morning — streets at all? yes, so i was out this morning and _ streets at all? yes, so i was out this morning and it _ streets at all? yes, so i was out this morning and it was - streets at all? yes, so i was out this morning and it was utter. streets at all? yes, so i was out - this morning and it was utter chaos. people were just panicking like i have never seen before. the amount
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of traffic on the road brought the traffic to a standstill in the city. we have been seeing an influx of people coming into the city in recent days because of the fighting in nearby provinces. but today and yesterday, this morning, people were trying to get out of the city because of reports of the taliban fighters being on the outskirts of the city. also people are emptying out their life savings, desperately trying to get as much cash as they can. atms are out of order people are trying to get alternative same cars because there is a worry if fighting broke out that communication lines might go down. that was this morning. then by mid—afternoon there was this quite eerie quietness that has...
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inaudible. there is still a fear that fighting will break out, but nobody really knows at the moment. charlie, kabul is a city of several million, but it is a city of several million, but it is quite a close—knit community. tell me about your afghan friends and colleagues that you are speaking to. what are they saying about how they feel about the next few days and weeks? i am hearing that a lot of people are leaving, but there are a lot of people who are staying. even for those who are leaving it is a heartbreaking decision because they have to leave loved ones behind. there was a lady i spoke to this week who had secured a visa to france with her husband and she was not even able to be excited about it really. she is worried about the challenges ahead in france, but also herfamily are stuck challenges ahead in france, but also her family are stuck here and it is a really gut—wrenching thing to be
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happening at the moment. those who are here, certainly in the capital city, and women in particular, are very worried about what this will mean if the taliban do regain control here, what it will mean for them and their lives. these are educated, independent women who have carved out careers for themselves, who often live independently here. this is all under threat at the moment. indeed, we spoke to the taliban spokesperson on the programme about an hour and a half ago and he said he urged people not to leave. he said they can live under an islamic system, but we don't want a brain drain from the country. i don't want a brain drain from the count . ., don't want a brain drain from the count . . . . ~ country. i mean, if we are talking about brain _ country. i mean, if we are talking about brain drain, _ country. i mean, if we are talking about brain drain, we _ country. i mean, if we are talking about brain drain, we are - country. i mean, if we are talking about brain drain, we are well i country. i mean, if we are talking| about brain drain, we are well into that by now. so many academics and human rights activists and journalists, and those kind of people, have already flooded out of the country in the recent months if they have been able to because of
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things like targeted assassinations, which have been specifically targeting those people. and those who are here are absolutely terrified for their lives and for their families' lives. terrified for their lives and for theirfamilies' lives. at the moment people are reluctant to believe those assurances. i think people are waiting to see what the reality is. thank you very much forjoining us. i spoke to a taliban spokesperson earlier. will women be able to leave their homes alone? in earlier. will women be able to leave their homes alone?— earlier. will women be able to leave their homes alone? in the past women were walking- -- _
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their homes alone? in the past women were walking... they _ their homes alone? in the past women were walking... they were _ their homes alone? in the past women were walking... they were not - were walking... they were not allowed to _ were walking... they were not allowed to leave _ were walking... they were not allowed to leave their - were walking... they were not allowed to leave their homes i allowed to leave their homes without... allowed to leave their homes without- - -— allowed to leave their homes without... , without... males were accompanying them, that without... males were accompanying them. that was _ without... males were accompanying them, that was not _ without... males were accompanying them, that was not the _ without... males were accompanying them, that was not the case, - without... males were accompanying them, that was not the case, they i them, that was not the case, they were walking industries, i have seen that. ., . , ., that. the women we have spoken to said if they — that. the women we have spoken to said if they left _ that. the women we have spoken to said if they left their _ that. the women we have spoken to said if they left their house - said if they left their house without a male accompanying them, someone who was either their brother, father or husband, they would be beaten by taliban religious police. would be beaten by taliban religious olice. ., ., . ., police. no, no, that was not the case and it _ police. no, no, that was not the case and it will— police. no, no, that was not the case and it will not _ police. no, no, that was not the case and it will not be _ police. no, no, that was not the case and it will not be the - police. no, no, that was not the case and it will not be the case. | police. no, no, that was not the l case and it will not be the case. in your view, case and it will not be the case. in yourview, do case and it will not be the case. in your view, do you want to reimpose the sort of government that you had in the 90s? , , . in the 90s? first, it will be an islamic state. _ in the 90s? first, it will be an islamic state. we _ in the 90s? first, it will be an islamic state. we have - in the 90s? first, it will be an islamic state. we have fought in the 90s? first, it will be an i islamic state. we have fought for the case, that is clear. any agreement of the people that will be
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seen, revealed and any thing will be reformed and corrected so that there is no grievances from the afghan people. in is no grievances from the afghan eo - le. , is no grievances from the afghan --eole. , ., . . people. in terms of the media, are --eole, people. in terms of the media, are people. either— people. in terms of the media, are people, either press _ people. in terms of the media, are people, either press allowed - people. in terms of the media, are people, either press allowed to i people, either press allowed to operate freely in the country because we are also hearing reports that in certain places with a taliban now control it, they are only allowing for sharia news to be broadcast? i only allowing for sharia news to be broadcast? ~ , , broadcast? i think it is very important _ broadcast? i think it is very important that _ broadcast? i think it is very important that an - broadcast? i think it is very important that an islamic l broadcast? i think it is very _ important that an islamic government will have a free media to criticise anyone, but they should not have
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character assassination. they should have freedom of speech under sharia law. ., , ., have freedom of speech under sharia law. . , ., , , have freedom of speech under sharia law. . , , have freedom of speech under sharia law. can you help us paint a picture of what the — law. can you help us paint a picture of what the next _ law. can you help us paint a picture of what the next few _ law. can you help us paint a picture of what the next few days - law. can you help us paint a picture of what the next few days will - law. can you help us paint a picture of what the next few days will look | of what the next few days will look like for the people of afghanistan and the people in kabul? can they go to their workplaces? the banks have shut down. people are trying to take money out of the banks. can you help us understand what the next few days will look like? i us understand what the next few days will look like?— will look like? i hope it will be a new chapter. — will look like? i hope it will be a new chapter. a _ will look like? i hope it will be a new chapter, a piece _ will look like? i hope it will be a new chapter, a piece and - will look like? i hope it will be a l new chapter, a piece and freedom because in the past there were tens of people all over afghanistan who were killed because of fighting. and when the peaceful transfer of power takes place, i hope there will be a new chapter, piece of the people, feeling safe and they can live their
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lives normally. 50 feeling safe and they can live their lives normally.— feeling safe and they can live their lives normall . .. ., ., . ,, lives normally. so can women go back to school and — lives normally. so can women go back to school and the _ lives normally. so can women go back to school and the workplace _ to school and the workplace tomorrow? right now we are seeing trafficjams in kabul, and people trying to leave the country, people queueing up at banks trying to get access to their money. what will the next few days look like? can they work? ., , next few days look like? can they work? . , ., ., ,. next few days look like? can they work? ., , ., ., ,. , work? can they go to school? yes, the can work? can they go to school? yes, they can go- _ work? can they go to school? yes, they can go- we — work? can they go to school? yes, they can go. we call— work? can they go to school? yes, they can go. we call on _ work? can they go to school? yes, they can go. we call on the - work? can they go to school? yes, they can go. we call on the people j they can go. we call on the people to stay in their homes and in the city and they should not go and they should not have worries. they are rumours. they will have opportunities to work and they can continue their work as they have in the past. we have already issued a statement in this regard. ianthem the past. we have already issued a statement in this regard. when will the transfer — statement in this regard. when will the transfer of _ statement in this regard. when will the transfer of power _ statement in this regard. when will the transfer of power take - statement in this regard. when will
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the transfer of power take place? l the transfer of power take place? so, we will see. we will want to have talks about that and to achieve that as soon as possible. that have talks about that and to achieve that as soon as possible.— that as soon as possible. that was a taliban spokesperson _ that as soon as possible. that was a taliban spokesperson speaking - that as soon as possible. that was a taliban spokesperson speaking to i that as soon as possible. that was a l taliban spokesperson speaking to me a little earlier. the bbcjournalist zarghuna kargar, who is fram afghanistan, has been speaking to residents in kabul, she's been telling me what she has heard very hard to digest what is going on in afghanistan for people. i've been speaking to one mother this morning, whose son has been working in the military and front line, injalalabad, which was taken over yesterday by the taliban, and she was telling me that she is trying hard to connect with her son by phone, he is not answering. she called another relative who is working in the same place, in the military and he answered, he only said that we are ok,
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but we are not allowed to talk, so she does not know where her son is, how he is and she said that she lives nearby the kabul airport and says that every minute, they have an aeroplane going overhead, over the house, it means a lot of people are leaving afghanistan and these people are left with nothing. no hope, no proper explanation of what is going on, no call of support for them for mothers like her. remember she is a woman whose husband worked in the military, then her two sons are in the military, and this is just chaos and she is totally heartbroken. it has been very, very hard for many otherfamilies. i've spoken to a friend in kabul, one was in the bank this morning, and she said, suddenly chaos started and people started running away, getting out of cars and running away to a safe place. they were told that the taliban had just arrived and they needed to go to safety. she is a young woman who wanted to get money from the bank,
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she said the bank told them that they are empty, there is no money, just to go back home. streets are empty, many of the other people i have spoken to, who were working with the local police, were told to burn all the documents they have and leave their uniform and go home. it's a situation where people don't know how to make sense of it, it is total confusion, a fear and worry. very much so, i am hearing very similar things. people are being told to take off your uniforms, burn your documents and go home. yes, go home. and these are people who have worked so hard in the last 20 years. one woman who i was speaking to said she spent the best years of her life that she could look after her kids, i could be with my kids but i spent it to build this country.
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what we are seeing now is fear of regime coming in to stop us from work. as we know from other provinces women have been told to go home and stay with their male relatives. we don't know what is going to happen in the next few days or the next few months. a lot of women don't know what is going to happen to them, but there is definitely a feeling of fear and worry in afghanistan. no one expected it to be so fast and so quick. i think that was what was so shocking for so many people. you speak to so many people who don't have passports, for example, because theyjust didn't expect that they would need it. one of my other friends who has been trying to leave afghanistan because it is not safe for him, he said he has been going to the indian embassy to get a visa for three days and the queues are so big that he cannot even talk to an official. what is going on? are they going to get a visa or not?
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and he said that they have been told that the taliban have told them they are free to go, but he says i don't know where to go, i don't trust what is coming and i don't have a way of escaping. so it is just like a feeling of desperation in afghanistan. no one expected it like this. it is just everyone is waiting for the next minute, what is going to be announced, what is going be done. no one knows what is going to happen next? no, no one knows and all they want, i have some family members in jalalabad which fell peacefully. there was no fighting. they said that we were told we could come back to our shops, but we are scared, i don't know how to go and open my shop, i don't know what is the next minute going to bring. it is just like that in kabul now. kabul is in a total mess. everyone is talking about it.
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one woman i was speaking to said if you look at afghanistan today, if you look at kabul, if you hear our resident, just remember we trusted the americans. do not trust americans when they say they are going to liberate you, they don't, they leave you in the middle of the night and they abandon you. that is how they feel. i think one thing we shouldn't forget and we need to point it out, is the gains of the last 20 years. so while people talked about a weak, corrupt government, there were so many women, extraordinary people, who took the freedoms and opportunities and made something of it. yes, you know, you go to afghanistan quite frequently, more than me, and you saw all the progress that women made, the progress that girls made, the progress that young man made. young men made. i remember 20 years ago when we were broadcasting from the bbc there was hardly any english speakers, but now we have an army of english speakers. this means in the last 20 years
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there was a thirst for education and they grabbed it and they learnt and they digested it and they made such progress, they went abroad, they got education, they went back home to build their country and now suddenly all of those people i know arejobless, all of those people i know are sitting at home waiting for the next minute what to do. not trusting the politicians, not trusting the americans, not trusting the other international community that was there. i am seeing kids on the street crying because they don't have milk, they don't have proper food. it is just a heartbreaking situation and ijust don't know how to, myself personally because i am afghan and i have worked for women and girls so hard, it is just so heartbreaking. here's unicef�*s chief of field operations and emergencies
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in kabul, mustapha ben messaoud, talking about about his concerns a little earlier. i think we have been quite vocal about the concern and the needs affecting afghanistan right now. you have seen and heard about the 360,000 people that have been pushed on the move because of the conflict. we have also reported on the number of children killed since the beginning of the year and that number is unacceptable, standing at more than 500. but at the same time we have been having discussions and meetings with the taliban leadership in the various towns that are now under their control. the latest engagement that we had with them was this morning injalalabad, where we discussed how humanitarian, especially unicef in this case, it will be able to resume their
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activities. those activities are really life—saving interventions at this stage. that was unicef. taliban militants have reached the outskirts of afghanistan's capital, kabul, after taking control of most of the rest of the country. the interior minister says negotiations have taken place to ensure a peaceful transition of power. a taliban statement says fighters had been ordered to remain on the edges of the capital. a spokesman for the militants also spoke to the bbc saying "that there will be no revenge on anyone." he added that a taliban government would give women the right to education and work. there have also been traffic jams education and work. there have also been trafficjams on kabul�*s roads as residents try to flee. i was speaking to a taliban spokesperson earlier who said they should be calm in the city and people should not attempt to flee, they don't want to see a brain drain from the country, they want people to remain in the
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country. we will have to wait and see how this develops. get all the latest headlines on bbc world news on the developing situation in afghanistan. goodbye for now. now over to the weather. hello, warmth and sunshine does not feature very much in the forecast for the week ahead, certainly a cool start to the new week as we pick up a north—westerly wind. for much of the week, it could be mainly dry, but often cloudy and that is certainly the situation today. we have these slow—moving frontal systems across the uk, bringing a lot of cloud and also further outbreaks of rain. heavy and frequent showers across the north of scotland. further south across scotland and northern england, we have this zone of patchy rain which will be sliding its way southwards, some sunshine there as well, and across wales and south—west england, we have clouds and showers and those are likely to stay this afternoon. further east, drier, but we can't rule out some showers and the best of the sunshine
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is further east, and the highest temperatures too. this evening and overnight, much of the rain across england and wales will ease, we still see some showers pushing their way across scotland, perhaps into northern england, sometimes, but with a variable cloud elsewhere, the clearer skies across eastern scotland where we could see temperatures dipping down to around 6 degrees. further south in the uk, temperatures get to 12—14 c. the new week starts off like this, the area of low pressure pulls away into scandinavia, the area high tries to build across the atlantic, notice the wind direction, a north—westerly wind, a cool wind at any time of the year. it will feed in lots of cloud and some showers. most will be dry but after a cloudy start, some sunshine develops across eastern counties of scotland and england. in the sunshine, 19—21 where we have the cloud, just 15—17. with a north—westerly wind, it will feel cool as well. through till tomorrow evening we'll see some more persistent rain pushing across parts of western scotland, northern ireland and into the far north of england. tuesday, little change
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in the pressure pattern we still have this area of low pressure in scandinavia, the high across the atlantic and the court north—westerly wind. and the cool north—westerly wind. spells of rain across east anglia and into the morning, those will clear away, lots of cloud again, maybe one or two showers, most will be dry, but i think sunshine in limited supply. temperatures typically in the range of 16—20. not much change in the week ahead, quite quiet, often cloudy, but may be some showers developing towards the end of the week.
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this is bbc news with the latest headlines: the rush to leave kabul, as the taliban make rapid advances, right to the edge of the afghan capital. the advancing taliban forces have set free prisoners from kabul�*s jail, but there are no confirmed reports of fighting within the capital itself afghanistan's interior minister says negotiations are taking place to ensure a peaceful transition of power and the city will not be attacked. taliban militants have rolled through the entire country in a matter of weeks. in a bbc interview, a spokesman says women will be safe if they wear the hijab. the policy is that women can have access to education and to work and of course, they will observe the hijab, that is it. here in the uk, the prime minister has convened a meeting

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