hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. the former attorney general bill barr told the january 6th hearing that president trump was "detached from reality" when it came to his baseless claims of election fraud. another witness, mr trump's former campaign manager, said there were two camps — the loyalists who refused to accept they'd lost and "team normal" who did. the uk government publishes its plans to override part of the brexit agreement involving trade rules for northern ireland, insisting it's not breaking international law. and hello, hal — the ai system google developed that is so responsive, one of their own engineers believed it was sentient. tonight with the context, democratic strategist mary anne marsh, political sketch writer

at the independent tom peck and former communications director for the trump campaign brian lanza. welcome to the programme. donald trump "knew" he had lost the 2020 election. he had been told repeatedly by those closest to him. his campaign manager, legal council for his campaign, his data analysts and his daughter had all had told him so. but the then—attorney general bill barr told the committee in a videotaped session that "after the election, he didn't seem to be listening". and that gets to a key issue in any criminal investigation that might follow of mr trump's actions, whether he understood the claims of fraud he was making were false. the vice—chair of the committee, the republican liz cheney, believes he did know and that the lie he perpetuated lit the fuse on what followed onjanuary 6th.

you will hear first—hand testimony that the president's campaign advisers urged him to await the counting of votes and not to declare victory on election night. the president understood even before the election that many more biden voters had voted by mail because president trump ignored the advice of his campaign experts and told his supporters only to vote in person. donald trump knew before the election that the counting of those mail—in ballots in several states would not begin until late in the day and would not be complete for multiple days. this was expected, reported and widely known. president trump rejected the advice of his campaign experts on election night and instead followed the course recommended by an apparently inebriated rudy giuliani to just claim he won and insist that the vote—counting stop, to falsely claim everything was fraudulent.

hundreds of our countrymen have faced criminal charges. many are serving criminal sentences because they believed what donald trump said about the election and they acted on it. they came to washington, dc at his request and marched on the capitol at his request. and hundreds of them besieged and invaded the building at the heart of our constitutional republic. as one conservative editorial board put it recently, quote, "mr trump betrayed his supporters by conning them onjanuary 6th, and he is still doing it." liz cheney speaking at the outset of today's hearings. mary anne, there were a series of people we heard from today, including his former campaign manager bill stepien,

who felt obvious discomfort at these claims of election fraud. and clearly, at the time, they had expressed it in private to him, but they didn't speak out in public. what did you make of it? i'm sure they did not want to incur the wrath — i'm sure they did not want to incur the wrath of— i'm sure they did not want to incur the wrath of donald trump, but note that everyone who testified today it did so _ that everyone who testified today it did so under oath. and to lie under oath _ did so under oath. and to lie under oath before — did so under oath. and to lie under oath before congress is a felony. that is _ oath before congress is a felony. that is serious business. so here are the _ that is serious business. so here are the facts from today. donald trump _ are the facts from today. donald trump knew he lost the 2020 election. _ trump knew he lost the 2020 election, yet he still engaged in un—american, unconstitutional, illegal— un—american, unconstitutional, illegal activities to try to overturn the election of 2020 and stay in _ overturn the election of 2020 and stay in office. so now the question that's— stay in office. so now the question that's left— stay in office. so now the question that's left is who helped him, what did they— that's left is who helped him, what did they do, why did they do it and why was donald trump so desperate to stay in _ why was donald trump so desperate to stay in power? and the new news today— stay in power? and the new news today is _ stay in power? and the new news today is that all those e—mails that everybody — today is that all those e—mails that everybody got in the wake of the 2020 election where he is making appeal— 2020 election where he is making appeal for— 2020 election where he is making appeal for money now looks like wire fraud because he defrauded people and used _ fraud because he defrauded people and used it for different purposes and used it for different purposes and that's— and used it for different purposes and that's what we learn to today

and that's what we learn to today and that — and that's what we learn to today and that is — and that's what we learn to today and that is very serious trouble for donald _ and that is very serious trouble for donald trump. and that is very serious trouble for donald trump-— donald trump. that is certainly a theme that _ donald trump. that is certainly a theme that the _ donald trump. that is certainly a theme that the committee - donald trump. that is certainly a theme that the committee has i donald trump. that is certainly a i theme that the committee has been laying out for us today, that he duped all his supporters, that he requested this money for a legal case believing the election was stolen and yet what they are saying they have is evidence that in private, he knew he had lost. well, first of all. — private, he knew he had lost. well, first of all, thank you _ private, he knew he had lost. well, first of all, thank you for _ private, he knew he had lost. well, first of all, thank you for having - first of all, thank you for having me _ first of all, thank you for having me i_ first of all, thank you for having me ithink— first of all, thank you for having me. i think the _ first of all, thank you for having me. i think the case _ first of all, thank you for having me. i think the case that - first of all, thank you for having me. i think the case that bill. me. i think the case that bill stepieh ih _ me. i think the case that bill stepien in december- me. i think the case that bill stepien in december where. me. i think the case that bill. stepien in december where he me. i think the case that bill- stepien in december where he said he had lost _ stepien in december where he said he had lost nothing — stepien in december where he said he had lost nothing people _ stepien in december where he said he had lost nothing people have told - had lost nothing people have told president — had lost nothing people have told president trump _ had lost nothing people have told president trump time _ had lost nothing people have told president trump time after - had lost nothing people have told president trump time after time i had lost nothing people have told . president trump time after time that he had _ president trump time after time that he had lost _ president trump time after time that he had lost in — president trump time after time that he had lost in there _ president trump time after time that he had lost in there some _ president trump time after time that he had lost in there some had - he had lost in there some had told him he _ he had lost in there some had told him he want — he had lost in there some had told him he want he _ he had lost in there some had told him he want he chose _ he had lost in there some had told him he want he chose to— he had lost in there some had told him he want he chose to listen - he had lost in there some had told him he want he chose to listen toi him he want he chose to listen to others _ him he want he chose to listen to others and — him he want he chose to listen to others and that _ him he want he chose to listen to others and that is _ him he want he chose to listen to others and that is not _ him he want he chose to listen to others and that is not necessarilyi others and that is not necessarily io others and that is not necessarily go to— others and that is not necessarily go to ihteht— others and that is not necessarily go to intent of— others and that is not necessarily go to intent of his _ others and that is not necessarily go to intent of his mind - others and that is not necessarily go to intent of his mind was- others and that is not necessarily go to intent of his mind was andl others and that is not necessarilyi go to intent of his mind was and i think— go to intent of his mind was and i think these — go to intent of his mind was and i think these whole _ go to intent of his mind was and i think these whole hearings - go to intent of his mind was and i think these whole hearings are i go to intent of his mind was and i think these whole hearings are to try to _ think these whole hearings are to try to sort — think these whole hearings are to try to sort of determine - think these whole hearings are to try to sort of determine intent. think these whole hearings are to. try to sort of determine intent that a crime _ try to sort of determine intent that a crime was — try to sort of determine intent that a crime was committed _ try to sort of determine intent that a crime was committed and - try to sort of determine intent that - a crime was committed and determined with the _ a crime was committed and determined with the state _ a crime was committed and determined with the state of— a crime was committed and determined with the state of mind _ a crime was committed and determined with the state of mind somebody- a crime was committed and determined with the state of mind somebody was . with the state of mind somebody was and i with the state of mind somebody was and i think— with the state of mind somebody was and i think that — with the state of mind somebody was and i think that is _ with the state of mind somebody was and i think that is a _ with the state of mind somebody was and i think that is a high _ with the state of mind somebody was and i think that is a high bar- with the state of mind somebody was and i think that is a high bar to - and i think that is a high bar to hit and these _ and i think that is a high bar to hit and these hearings and - and i think that is a high bar to hit and these hearings and dol hit and these hearings and do nothing to— hit and these hearings and do nothing to sort _ hit and these hearings and do nothing to sort of— hit and these hearings and do nothing to sort of break- hit and these hearings and do nothing to sort of break his i hit and these hearings and do - nothing to sort of break his intent. they have — nothing to sort of break his intent. they have developed _ nothing to sort of break his intent.

they have developed no _ nothing to sort of break his intent. they have developed no ground i they have developed no ground breaking — they have developed no ground breaking news— they have developed no ground breaking news in this _ they have developed no ground breaking news in this and we i they have developed no groundl breaking news in this and we are part of— breaking news in this and we are part of the — breaking news in this and we are part of the way— breaking news in this and we are part of the way done _ breaking news in this and we are part of the way done with - breaking news in this and we are part of the way done with the . part of the way done with the hearings _ part of the way done with the hearings and _ part of the way done with the hearings and they— part of the way done with the hearings and they promised i part of the way done with the i hearings and they promised us blockbuster _ hearings and they promised us blockbuster information. - hearings and they promised us blockbuster information. and ii hearings and they promised us - blockbuster information. and ijust have not— blockbuster information. and ijust have not seen— blockbuster information. and ijust have not seen it. _ blockbuster information. and ijust have not seen it. i— blockbuster information. and ijust have not seen it. ithink— blockbuster information. and ijust have not seen it. i think you - blockbuster information. and ijust have not seen it. i think you knowl have not seen it. i think you know what _ have not seen it. i think you know what my— have not seen it. i think you know what my position _ have not seen it. i think you know what my position is, _ have not seen it. i think you know what my position is, we _ have not seen it. i think you know what my position is, we lost - have not seen it. i think you know what my position is, we lost in . what my position is, we lost in november— what my position is, we lost in novemberand _ what my position is, we lost in november and january- what my position is, we lost in november and january the - what my position is, we lost in november and january the 6thi what my position is, we lost in - november and january the 6th with a disgusting _ november and january the 6th with a disgusting moment in _ disgusting moment in american history— disgusting moment in american history and _ disgusting moment in american history and if— disgusting moment in american history and if we _ disgusting moment in american history and if we can _ disgusting moment in american history and if we can never- disgusting moment in american i history and if we can never forget about— history and if we can never forget about it _ history and if we can never forget about it but — history and if we can never forget about it but we _ history and if we can never forget about it but we can— history and if we can never forget about it but we can never- history and if we can never forget about it but we can never forget. about it but we can never forget about _ about it but we can never forget about what _ about it but we can never forget about what happened _ about it but we can never forget about what happened but - about it but we can never forget about what happened but i - about it but we can never forget| about what happened but i think about it but we can never forget- about what happened but i think the try to _ about what happened but i think the try to go _ about what happened but i think the try to go as— about what happened but i think the try to go as far— about what happened but i think the try to go as far as— about what happened but i think the try to go as far as to _ try to go as far as to disqualify him _ try to go as far as to disqualify him for— try to go as far as to disqualify him for the _ try to go as far as to disqualify him for the next _ try to go as far as to disqualify him for the next election - try to go as far as to disqualify him for the next election and i him for the next election and use this hearing — him for the next election and use this hearing to— him for the next election and use this hearing to do— him for the next election and use this hearing to do so— him for the next election and use this hearing to do so and - him for the next election and use this hearing to do so and it - him for the next election and use this hearing to do so and itjust. this hearing to do so and itjust because blatantly— this hearing to do so and itjust because blatantly obvious - this hearing to do so and itjust because blatantly obvious what this hearing to do so and itjust- because blatantly obvious what their intent _ because blatantly obvious what their intent is _ because blatantly obvious what their intent is and — because blatantly obvious what their intent is. and we _ because blatantly obvious what their intent is. and we can— because blatantly obvious what their intent is. and we can discern - because blatantly obvious what their intent is. and we can discern what . intent is. and we can discern what their— intent is. and we can discern what their intent— intent is. and we can discern what their intent is— intent is. and we can discern what their intent is and _ intent is. and we can discern what their intent is and that's _ intent is. and we can discern what their intent is and that's to - intent is. and we can discern what their intent is and that's to stop i their intent is and that's to stop president — their intent is and that's to stop president trump from - their intent is and that's to stop president trump from being - their intent is and that's to stop president trump from being on| their intent is and that's to stop i president trump from being on the ballot _ president trump from being on the ballot in _ president trump from being on the ballot in 2024 _ president trump from being on the ballot in 2024. let— president trump from being on the ballot in 2024.— ballot in 2024. let me press you on that. are ballot in 2024. let me press you on that- are you _ ballot in 2024. let me press you on that. are you saying _ ballot in 2024. let me press you on that. are you saying that _ ballot in 2024. let me press you on that. are you saying that you - ballot in 2024. let me press you on that. are you saying that you have i that. are you saying that you have learned nothing new? because i have followed this intently, and what i think i have learned that is new is that behind closed doors, he knew he had lost. this was not someone who imagined that there was a fraud and was prepared to go. he knew in private and people were telling him he had lost and yet he perpetuated the life. i

he had lost and yet he perpetuated the life. ., , . . the life. i would say this. we're talkin: the life. i would say this. we're talking about _ the life. i would say this. we're talking about this _ the life. i would say this. we're talking about this as _ the life. i would say this. we're talking about this as a - the life. i would say this. we're talking about this as a criminal| talking about this as a criminal hearing — talking about this as a criminal hearing. that's— talking about this as a criminal hearing. that's hearsay- talking about this as a criminal hearing. that's hearsay what l talking about this as a criminal. hearing. that's hearsay what you talking about this as a criminal- hearing. that's hearsay what you are saying _ hearing. that's hearsay what you are saying that _ hearing. that's hearsay what you are saying that people _ hearing. that's hearsay what you are saying that people say— hearing. that's hearsay what you are saying that people say to _ hearing. that's hearsay what you are saying that people say to him - hearing. that's hearsay what you are saying that people say to him that i saying that people say to him that he had _ saying that people say to him that he had lost — saying that people say to him that he had lost. we _ saying that people say to him that he had lost. we are _ saying that people say to him that he had lost. we are trying - he had lost. we are trying to discern _ he had lost. we are trying to discern is— he had lost. we are trying to discern- - -— he had lost. we are trying to discern... , , ., discern... is it? they have given evidence under _ discern... is it? they have given evidence under oath. _ discern... is it? they have given evidence under oath. sure - discern... is it? they have given evidence under oath. sure but. evidence under oath. sure but understand — evidence under oath. sure but understand this _ evidence under oath. sure but understand this is _ evidence under oath. sure but understand this is not - evidence under oath. sure but understand this is not a - evidence under oath. sure but. understand this is not a criminal proceeding _ understand this is not a criminal proceeding in— understand this is not a criminal proceeding ina— understand this is not a criminal proceeding. in a criminal- understand this is not a criminal- proceeding. in a criminal proceeding that evidence — proceeding. in a criminal proceeding that evidence would _ proceeding. in a criminal proceeding that evidence would not _ proceeding. in a criminal proceeding that evidence would not exist - proceeding. in a criminal proceeding that evidence would not exist as - proceeding. in a criminal proceeding that evidence would not exist as it . that evidence would not exist as it is considered _ that evidence would not exist as it is considered hearsay. _ that evidence would not exist as it is considered hearsay. we - that evidence would not exist as it is considered hearsay. we are - that evidence would not exist as it i is considered hearsay. we are going through— is considered hearsay. we are going through a _ is considered hearsay. we are going through a congressional _ is considered hearsay. we are going through a congressional hearing - is considered hearsay. we are going through a congressional hearing to. through a congressional hearing to make _ through a congressional hearing to make sure — through a congressional hearing to make sure this— through a congressional hearing to make sure this does— through a congressional hearing to make sure this does not— through a congressional hearing to make sure this does not happen i through a congressional hearing to i make sure this does not happen again for the _ make sure this does not happen again for the operatives— make sure this does not happen again for the operatives are _ make sure this does not happen again for the operatives are using _ make sure this does not happen again for the operatives are using things - for the operatives are using things to convolute — for the operatives are using things to convolute the _ for the operatives are using things to convolute the lines _ for the operatives are using things to convolute the lines but - for the operatives are using things to convolute the lines but the - to convolute the lines but the hearing — to convolute the lines but the hearing is _ to convolute the lines but the hearing is one _ to convolute the lines but the hearing is one thing - to convolute the lines but the hearing is one thing in - to convolute the lines but the. hearing is one thing in criminal intent — hearing is one thing in criminal intent is — hearing is one thing in criminal intent is a _ hearing is one thing in criminal intent is a different— hearing is one thing in criminal intent is a different thing - hearing is one thing in criminal intent is a different thing and i hearing is one thing in criminall intent is a different thing and in hearing is one thing in criminal. intent is a different thing and in a criminal— intent is a different thing and in a criminal prosecution, _ intent is a different thing and in a criminal prosecution, these - intent is a different thing and in a. criminal prosecution, these people testifying _ criminal prosecution, these people testifying about _ criminal prosecution, these people testifying about what _ criminal prosecution, these people testifying about what they - criminal prosecution, these people testifying about what they told - criminal prosecution, these peoplei testifying about what they told him in trouble — testifying about what they told him in trouble if— testifying about what they told him in trouble if they— testifying about what they told him in trouble if they did _ testifying about what they told him in trouble if they did not _ testifying about what they told him in trouble if they did not and - testifying about what they told him in trouble if they did not and will i in trouble if they did not and will he believed _ in trouble if they did not and will he believed what he _ in trouble if they did not and will he believed what he did - in trouble if they did not and will he believed what he did not - in trouble if they did not and will i he believed what he did not believe him of— he believed what he did not believe him of those — he believed what he did not believe him of those things _ he believed what he did not believe him of those things become - he believed what he did not believel him of those things become hearsay and become — him of those things become hearsay and become inadmissible. _ him of those things become hearsay and become inadmissible. and - him of those things become hearsay and become inadmissible. and i- him of those things become hearsay. and become inadmissible. and i think that's— and become inadmissible. and i think that's the _ and become inadmissible. and i think that's the ultimate thing _ and become inadmissible. and i think that's the ultimate thing people - and become inadmissible. and i think that's the ultimate thing people are l that's the ultimate thing people are trying _ that's the ultimate thing people are trying to— that's the ultimate thing people are trying to do— that's the ultimate thing people are trying to do with _ that's the ultimate thing people are trying to do with the _ that's the ultimate thing people are trying to do with the series - that's the ultimate thing people are trying to do with the series is - that's the ultimate thing people are trying to do with the series is try i trying to do with the series is try to get— trying to do with the series is try to get a — trying to do with the series is try to get a criminal— trying to do with the series is try to get a criminal referral- trying to do with the series is try to get a criminal referral out - trying to do with the series is try to get a criminal referral out of. to get a criminal referral out of donald — to get a criminal referral out of donald trump _ to get a criminal referral out of donald trump to _ to get a criminal referral out of donald trump to say— to get a criminal referral out of- donald trump to say he committed a crime _ donald trump to say he committed a crime and _ donald trump to say he committed a crime and i_ donald trump to say he committed a crime and i think— donald trump to say he committed a crime and i think together— donald trump to say he committed a crime and i think together for- donald trump to say he committed a crime and i think together for me - crime and i think together for me has of the — crime and i think together for me has of the dummy— crime and i think together for me has of the dummy but _ crime and i think together for me has of the dummy but nothing. crime and i think together for me has of the dummy but nothing in| crime and i think together for me - has of the dummy but nothing in this has of the dummy but nothing in this has a _ has of the dummy but nothing in this has a direct— has of the dummy but nothing in this has a direct link— has of the dummy but nothing in this has a direct link that _ has of the dummy but nothing in this has a direct link that he _ has a direct link that he committed a crime _ has a direct link that he committed a crime was — has a direct link that he committed a crime was a — has a direct link that he committed a crime was a bill— has a direct link that he committed a crime was a bill say— has a direct link that he committed a crime was a bill say i _ has a direct link that he committed

a crime was a bill say i heard - has a direct link that he committed a crime was a bill say i heard he i a crime was a bill say i heard he said _ a crime was a bill say i heard he said this — a crime was a bill say i heard he said this or— a crime was a bill say i heard he said this or we _ a crime was a bill say i heard he said this or we said _ a crime was a bill say i heard he said this or we said this- a crime was a bill say i heard he said this or we said this but- a crime was a bill say i heard he said this or we said this but wel said this or we said this but we have _ said this or we said this but we have nothing of— said this or we said this but we have nothing of him _ said this or we said this but we have nothing of him saying i. have nothing of him saying i lost and i will— have nothing of him saying i lost and i will keep pushing - have nothing of him saying i lost and i will keep pushing becausel have nothing of him saying i lost| and i will keep pushing because i want _ and i will keep pushing because i want to raise _ and i will keep pushing because i want to raise money. _ and i will keep pushing because i want to raise money. that - and i will keep pushing because i. want to raise money. that has not happened — want to raise money. that has not happened yet _ want to raise money. that has not happened yet and _ want to raise money. that has not happened yet and i— want to raise money. that has not happened yet and i think- want to raise money. that has not happened yet and i think that - happened yet and i think that becomes— happened yet and i think that becomes a _ happened yet and i think that becomes a problem - happened yet and i think that becomes a problem and - happened yet and i think that becomes a problem and that| happened yet and i think that _ becomes a problem and that becomes a problem _ becomes a problem and that becomes a problem for— becomes a problem and that becomes a problem for the — becomes a problem and that becomes a problem for the democrats. _ becomes a problem and that becomes a problem for the democrats. they - problem for the democrats. they promised — problem for the democrats. they promised blockbusters _ problem for the democrats. they promised blockbusters but- problem for the democrats. they promised blockbusters but i- problem for the democrats. they promised blockbusters but i have problem for the democrats. they - promised blockbusters but i have not seen them _ promised blockbusters but i have not seen them. ., . ,, ., ., ., seen them. come back on that and the oint i seen them. come back on that and the point i think— seen them. come back on that and the point i think so — seen them. come back on that and the point i think so it _ seen them. come back on that and the point i think so it over _ seen them. come back on that and the point i think so it over the _ seen them. come back on that and the point i think so it over the weekend - point i think so it over the weekend is that the attorney general has been loath to prosecute those around donald trump and indeed the former president himself. but the more brazen the facts that are set out by the committee, does the pressure on him not built to look for that criminal culpability?- him not built to look for that criminal culpability? yes, and i want to remind _ criminal culpability? yes, and i want to remind brian _ criminal culpability? yes, and i want to remind brian that - criminal culpability? yes, and i want to remind brian that we l criminal culpability? yes, and i- want to remind brian that we spent the entire — want to remind brian that we spent the entire election night and morning _ the entire election night and morning together and it was clear going _ morning together and it was clear going into — morning together and it was clear going into that evening and morning that donald trump was behind and that donald trump was behind and that if— that donald trump was behind and that if this — that donald trump was behind and that if this were a fair and free election— that if this were a fair and free election the every vote was counted, and we _ election the every vote was counted, and we discussed that night, that he was going _ and we discussed that night, that he was going to lose and i would remind you that _ was going to lose and i would remind you that you — was going to lose and i would remind you that you and your campaign months — you that you and your campaign months in — you that you and your campaign months in advance of this, donald

trump _ months in advance of this, donald trump constantly at rallies said vote _ trump constantly at rallies said vote on — trump constantly at rallies said vote on election day, vote on election— vote on election day, vote on election day, vote on election day because _ election day, vote on election day because the polls at that point showed — because the polls at that point showed him behind. and it would make itjust _ showed him behind. and it would make itjust that— showed him behind. and it would make itjust that much showed him behind. and it would make it just that much easier for showed him behind. and it would make itjust that much easier for him to perpetuate — itjust that much easier for him to perpetuate the story he did that has the votes came in and republicans voted _ the votes came in and republicans voted on _ the votes came in and republicans voted on election day but all the day of— voted on election day but all the day of election absentee ballots and all that— day of election absentee ballots and all that got counted they could perpetuate the story he told. to your— perpetuate the story he told. to your question, christian, the attorney— your question, christian, the attorney general, the contrast between — attorney general, the contrast between merrick garland and bill barr could not be more starts this is how— barr could not be more starts this is how the — barr could not be more starts this is how the department ofjustice has always— is how the department ofjustice has always operated before and after donald _ always operated before and after donald trump became president. and in that— donald trump became president. and in that case, — donald trump became president. and in that case, merrick garland is calling — in that case, merrick garland is calling balls and strikes. he is waiting — calling balls and strikes. he is waiting to see what happens, but it is clear— waiting to see what happens, but it is clear and — waiting to see what happens, but it is clear and he said he day that he is clear and he said he day that he is watching — is clear and he said he day that he is watching and he said this afternoon lawyers or the department ofjustice _ afternoon lawyers or the department ofjustice are watching these hearings and nobody wants a political _ hearings and nobody wants a political trial of any sort, but they— political trial of any sort, but they do— political trial of any sort, but they do want people who broke the law and _

they do want people who broke the law and did un—american, unconstitutional things to be held accountable. so we will see what the department ofjustice and merrick garland _ department ofjustice and merrick garland do but in the us, this is how— garland do but in the us, this is how it _ garland do but in the us, this is how it normally works except for the four years _ how it normally works except for the four years when donald trump was in the white _ four years when donald trump was in the white house.— the white house. tom, i want to ask ou what the white house. tom, i want to ask you what america _ the white house. tom, i want to ask you what america pocket _ the white house. tom, i want to ask you what america pocket reaction . you what america pocket reaction would be if he were listening to a committee like this in another country before you answer that i want you to listen to what bill stepien and bill barr said over the president and let's play that now. my belief, my recommendation was to say that votes were still being counted, it's too early to tell, too early to call the race, but, you know, we are proud of the race we ran and we, you know, think we are in a good position and we will have more to say about this, you know, the next day or the next day,

whenever we had something to say. and did anybody who was a part of that conversation disagree with your message? yes. who was that? the president disagreed with that. i don't recall the particular words. he thought i was wrong. he told me so, and, you know, that they were going to, you know... ..he was going in a different direction. i did not agree with the idea - of saying the election was stolen and putting out this stuff, which i told the _ president was bleep. and, you know, i didn't want to be a part of it. i tom, to that question of what other countries, what america would make of this if it was in another country and what other countries looking in would make of this now, if this man was to run in 2024 and became the president again, how would your response to it?—

response to it? well, that is the auestion response to it? well, that is the question and — response to it? well, that is the question and i— response to it? well, that is the question and i think _ response to it? well, that is the question and i think what - response to it? well, that is the i question and i think what happened today was this talk of how on election night, the donald trump campaign divided into team normal and team trump, and that is the question that is facing america and the republican party essentially is it's going to divide in the coming months into team normal and team trump and which team is going to win? and i am always loath to apply on american politics, especially in present company, but as an onlooker, the idea that somebody... it is beyond doubt he aided, abetted and was heavily involved in an insurrection on the capital in which five people were killed, including a police officer, and yet all the political chatter is about whether or not this guy is going to the president again, he is the bookies favourite. if that happens, countries like britain, france, germany, already one of the interesting things about all this is if you are british government we have always considered america to be our best pal and have arguably a

lord and are not interested in france and germany because we have this shared culture with the us but in the last couple of years, but it makes brits see this place actually is a very foreign country thatjust happens to speak our language and possibly have a lot more common with germany and france and european countries on all sides and there can be no doubt that america is on the precipice from the point of view of its friendly countries. but on the line as to whether or not american democracy can survive what is coming for it. and if it cannot, then countries like britain without any shadow of a doubt will be looking elsewhere in thinking about who the real friends are and i find it awful saying that as i used to work in america and it travelled all over america and it travelled all over america and it travelled all over america and i love america, but it is in a bleak place and we must hope that it pulled through.— that it pulled through. there are many people _ that it pulled through. there are many people who _ that it pulled through. there are many people who think- that it pulled through. there are many people who think like - that it pulled through. there are | many people who think like tom, brian, and many people who perceive this issue in america at the moment and if that concern you? could un

all consciousness support donald trump and a primary for 2024 knowing what you know now? in a trump and a primary for 2024 knowing what you know now?— what you know now? in a primary? that would — what you know now? in a primary? that would be _ what you know now? in a primary? that would be a _ what you know now? in a primary? that would be a little _ what you know now? in a primary? that would be a little bit _ that would be a little bit challenging _ that would be a little bit challenging for- that would be a little bit challenging for me. - that would be a little bit| challenging for me. with that would be a little bit - challenging for me. with what i that would be a little bit _ challenging for me. with what i know now it _ challenging for me. with what i know now it depends — challenging for me. with what i know now it depends on— challenging for me. with what i know now it depends on who _ challenging for me. with what i know now it depends on who is _ challenging for me. with what i know now it depends on who is running - now it depends on who is running against _ now it depends on who is running against and — now it depends on who is running against and he _ now it depends on who is running against and he can— now it depends on who is running against and he can run— now it depends on who is running against and he can run against. against and he can run against somebody who _ against and he can run against somebody who wants - against and he can run against somebody who wants to - against and he can run against somebody who wants to triple j against and he can run against- somebody who wants to triple gas prices _ somebody who wants to triple gas prices in _ somebody who wants to triple gas prices in the — somebody who wants to triple gas prices in the primary— somebody who wants to triple gas prices in the primary and - somebody who wants to triple gas prices in the primary and i- somebody who wants to triple gas prices in the primary and i will- somebody who wants to triple gas prices in the primary and i will not support— prices in the primary and i will not support that _ prices in the primary and i will not support that i_ prices in the primary and i will not support that. i think _ prices in the primary and i will not support that. i think issues - support that. i think issues will ultimately— support that. i think issues will ultimately matter— support that. i think issues will ultimately matter to _ support that. i think issues will ultimately matter to what - support that. i think issues will - ultimately matter to what happens in 2024 for _ ultimately matter to what happens in 2024 for me — ultimately matter to what happens in 2024 for me and many republicans l ultimately matter to what happens in l 2024 for me and many republicans and a lot of— 2024 for me and many republicans and a lot of us— 2024 for me and many republicans and a lot of us were — 2024 for me and many republicans and a lot of us were really _ 2024 for me and many republicans and a lot of us were really upset _ 2024 for me and many republicans and a lot of us were really upset about - a lot of us were really upset about january _ a lot of us were really upset about january the 6th _ a lot of us were really upset about january the 6th and _ a lot of us were really upset about january the 6th and a _ a lot of us were really upset about january the 6th and a lot - a lot of us were really upset about january the 6th and a lot of- a lot of us were really upset about january the 6th and a lot of us - a lot of us were really upset about i january the 6th and a lot of us knew we lost in _ january the 6th and a lot of us knew we lost in november and _ january the 6th and a lot of us knew we lost in november and were - we lost in november and were forfeited without _ we lost in november and were forfeited without loss - we lost in november and were forfeited without loss and - we lost in november and were forfeited without loss and we. forfeited without loss and we coutd've _ forfeited without loss and we could've predicted _ forfeited without loss and we could've predicted why- forfeited without loss and we could've predicted why we i forfeited without loss and we. could've predicted why we lost because — could've predicted why we lost because of— could've predicted why we lost because of some _ could've predicted why we lost because of some of the - could've predicted why we lost. because of some of the rhetoric could've predicted why we lost - because of some of the rhetoric that was taking _ because of some of the rhetoric that was taking place _ because of some of the rhetoric that was taking place. but _ because of some of the rhetoric that was taking place. but now— because of some of the rhetoric that was taking place. but now you - because of some of the rhetoric that was taking place. but now you are l was taking place. but now you are asking _ was taking place. but now you are asking me — was taking place. but now you are asking me to _ was taking place. but now you are asking me to make _ was taking place. but now you are asking me to make a _ was taking place. but now you are asking me to make a binary- was taking place. but now you are| asking me to make a binary choice between _ asking me to make a binary choice betweenjoe — asking me to make a binary choice betweenjoe biden's_ asking me to make a binary choice betweenjoe biden's inflation- asking me to make a binary choice between joe biden's inflation andl betweenjoe biden's inflation and donald _ betweenjoe biden's inflation and donald trump's _ betweenjoe biden's inflation and donald trump's insurrection - betweenjoe biden's inflation and donald trump's insurrection and i betweenjoe biden's inflation and| donald trump's insurrection and i make _ donald trump's insurrection and i make the — donald trump's insurrection and i make the case _ donald trump's insurrection and i make the case that _ donald trump's insurrection and i make the case that the _ donald trump's insurrection and i make the case that the average l donald trump's insurrection and i- make the case that the average voter does not _ make the case that the average voter does not understand _ make the case that the average voter does not understand what _ does not understand what insurrection _ does not understand what insurrection means- does not understand what l insurrection means because does not understand what - insurrection means because it is not impact _ insurrection means because it is not impact them — insurrection means because it is not impact them every— insurrection means because it is not impact them every day _ insurrection means because it is not impact them every day or— insurrection means because it is not impact them every day or as - insurrection means because it is not impact them every day or as every i impact them every day or as every voter— impact them every day or as every voter in— impact them every day or as every voter in america _ impact them every day or as every voter in america knows _ impact them every day or as every voter in america knows what - impact them every day or as every voter in america knows what joe l voter in america knows what joe biden's— voter in america knows what joe biden's inflation— voter in america knows what joe biden's inflation means - voter in america knows what joe biden's inflation means and - voter in america knows what joe biden's inflation means and so l voter in america knows what joe biden's inflation means and so i| biden's inflation means and sol would _ biden's inflation means and sol would have _ biden's inflation means and sol would have to _ biden's inflation means and sol would have to gather— biden's inflation means and sol would have to gather that - biden's inflation means and so ii would have to gather that polling shows _ would have to gather that polling shows all— would have to gather that polling shows all over _ would have to gather that polling shows all over and _ would have to gather that polling shows all over and every - would have to gather that polling

shows all over and every poster i shows all over and every poster shows _ shows all over and every poster shows that _ shows all over and every poster shows that donald _ shows all over and every poster shows that donald trump - shows all over and every poster shows that donald trump wins.| shows all over and every poster - shows that donald trump wins. and he is winning _ shows that donald trump wins. and he is winning in— shows that donald trump wins. and he is winning in spite _ shows that donald trump wins. and he is winning in spite of— shows that donald trump wins. and he is winning in spite of all the _ is winning in spite of all the negative _ is winning in spite of all the negative things— is winning in spite of all the negative things that - is winning in spite of all the negative things that the - is winning in spite of all the - negative things that the guests have brought— negative things that the guests have brought forward _ negative things that the guests have brought forward and _ negative things that the guests have brought forward and that _ negative things that the guests have brought forward and that just - negative things that the guests have brought forward and that just goes l brought forward and that just goes to show— brought forward and that just goes to show you — brought forward and that just goes to show you what _ brought forward and that just goes to show you what the _ brought forward and that just goes to show you what the american . brought forward and that just goes - to show you what the american people care more _ to show you what the american people care more about, _ to show you what the american people care more about, they— to show you what the american people care more about, they care _ to show you what the american people care more about, they care about - care more about, they care about their— care more about, they care about their pocketbooks, _ care more about, they care about their pocketbooks, democratic i care more about, they care about. their pocketbooks, democratic super strategists _ their pocketbooks, democratic super strategists james _ their pocketbooks, democratic super strategists james carbo _ their pocketbooks, democratic super strategists james carbo and - their pocketbooks, democratic super strategists james carbo and anisa i strategists james carbo and anisa .ot strategists james carbo and anisa got brooklyn _ strategists james carbo and anisa got brooklyn elected _ strategists james carbo and anisa got brooklyn elected said - strategists james carbo and anisa got brooklyn elected said is - strategists james carbo and anisa got brooklyn elected said is the l got brooklyn elected said is the economy, — got brooklyn elected said is the economy, stupid. _ got brooklyn elected said is the economy, stupid. and - got brooklyn elected said is the economy, stupid. and i- got brooklyn elected said is the economy, stupid. and i think. got brooklyn elected said is thei economy, stupid. and i think we got brooklyn elected said is the - economy, stupid. and i think we are going _ economy, stupid. and i think we are going to _ economy, stupid. and i think we are going to stress — economy, stupid. and i think we are going to stress that _ economy, stupid. and i think we are going to stress that this _ economy, stupid. and i think we are going to stress that this year - economy, stupid. and i think we are going to stress that this year and . going to stress that this year and the next election _ going to stress that this year and the next election cycle. - going to stress that this year and the next election cycle.— going to stress that this year and the next election cycle. lemme give ou the the next election cycle. lemme give you the final — the next election cycle. lemme give you the final word _ the next election cycle. lemme give you the final word on _ the next election cycle. lemme give you the final word on this, - the next election cycle. lemme give you the final word on this, would . you the final word on this, would you be heading to a criminal referral of the former president if the united states and they might charge him as a criminal and he might still be running. then what? well, that could happen. and we shall— well, that could happen. and we shall see, — well, that could happen. and we shall see, but i would disagree with brian— shall see, but i would disagree with brian about what the election is going _ brian about what the election is going to — brian about what the election is going to like in november when we still have _ going to like in november when we still have had all the shootings and i know— still have had all the shootings and i know we — still have had all the shootings and i know we will talk about brun reform — i know we will talk about brun reform in _ i know we will talk about brun reform in a moment and roe v wade tikety— reform in a moment and roe v wade tikety to _ reform in a moment and roe v wade tikety to be _ reform in a moment and roe v wade likely to be overturned and to his point of— likely to be overturned and to his

point of time, the marcie hangs in the ballot — point of time, the marcie hangs in the ballot so if we will lose the rights as — the ballot so if we will lose the rights as a woman how you look at kids and _ rights as a woman how you look at kids and your family is getting shot across— kids and your family is getting shot across this — kids and your family is getting shot across this country and when you lose your — across this country and when you lose your right to make your own decisions about your own health care, _ decisions about your own health care, if— decisions about your own health care, if you _ decisions about your own health care, if you see that your democracy is ending. _ care, if you see that your democracy is ending, gas prices don't matter as much — is ending, gas prices don't matter as much if— is ending, gas prices don't matter as much. if you are not living in a free _ as much. if you are not living in a free world, — as much. if you are not living in a free world, in _ as much. if you are not living in a free world, in every country and you think— free world, in every country and you think your children are going to have _ think your children are going to have fewer rights and your families are going _ have fewer rights and your families are going to have fewer rights, will this be _ are going to have fewer rights, will this be our— are going to have fewer rights, will this be our last election? that will weigh— this be our last election? that will weigh heavily and i would not underestimate that what suburban independent women will determine the selection _ independent women will determine the selection and you saw them in the streets _ selection and you saw them in the streets on — selection and you saw them in the streets on gun reform in the last few weeks— streets on gun reform in the last few weeks and he was see them in the streets _ few weeks and he was see them in the streets about roe v wade when that gets overturned any day now and you will start _ gets overturned any day now and you will start to _ gets overturned any day now and you will start to see people are going to do— will start to see people are going to do to — will start to see people are going to do to try to get their democracy back~ _ to do to try to get their democracy back so _ to do to try to get their democracy back so i — to do to try to get their democracy back. so i think the real tail here is is _ back. so i think the real tail here is is donald — back. so i think the real tail here is is donald trump going to announce for president and run again for 2024 anytime _ for president and run again for 2024 anytime soon with the thought that it could _ anytime soon with the thought that it could protect him from any legal action? _

it could protect him from any legal action? that's the real tail here and that— action? that's the real tail here and that is— action? that's the real tail here and that is what i am watching for and that is what i am watching for an as _ and that is what i am watching for an as for— and that is what i am watching for an as for the election, we used to send election observers to countries around _ send election observers to countries around the — send election observers to countries around the world to see whether they were doing _ around the world to see whether they were doing the election right and obviously— were doing the election right and obviously we need some help to make sure we _ obviously we need some help to make sure we are, _ obviously we need some help to make sure we are, too. i obviously we need some help to make sure we are, too.— sure we are, too. i think we 'ust heard there fl sure we are, too. i think we 'ust heard there is i sure we are, too. i think we 'ust heard there is an i sure we are, too. i think we 'ust heard there is an outline i sure we are, too. i think we 'ust heard there is an outline of h sure we are, too. i think we just heard there is an outline of the | sure we are, too. i think we just i heard there is an outline of the two campaigns ahead of the midterm elections and beyond, no doubt, framed very nicely bite brian and marianne. the senate has just three weeks to hammer out the language of a framework deal on gun agreed this weekend. it is a modest breakthrough, but after decades of stalemate on the hill, any breakthrough of any kind is to be welcomed. the framework agreement includes funding for states that introduce "red flag" laws, which would keep guns away from those deemed to be a risk. there'd be more thorough review ofjuvenile records for those aged between 18—21 who want buy a semiautomatic rifle like an aris. there's a measure to close the so—called "boyfriend loophole". currently there are measures in place to stop those who are married or cohabiting, who've been arrested for domestic abuse from owning a gun. but that's not the case

for abusive boyfriends. of more interest is what's not included. they won't be raising the age at which you can buy a semiautomatic rifle from 18 to 21. nothing on universal background checks. nothing on safe storage laws. but the proposals are supported by ten republicans, which means the senate democrats would have the numbers they need to pass it. not the policy thatjoe biden wanted but it is something in it is significant after 30 years of nothing. l significant after 30 years of nothine. ~ �* , significant after 30 years of nothine. ,, �*, ,., nothing. i think it's something the voters can walk _ nothing. i think it's something the voters can walk away _ nothing. i think it's something the voters can walk away with - nothing. i think it's something the voters can walk away with it - nothing. i think it's something the voters can walk away with it and i nothing. i think it's something the i voters can walk away with it and say they are _ voters can walk away with it and say they are fine — voters can walk away with it and say they are fine with _ voters can walk away with it and say they are fine with doing _ voters can walk away with it and say they are fine with doing something. | they are fine with doing something. hallelujah, — they are fine with doing something. hallelujah, thank— they are fine with doing something. hallelujah, thank god _ they are fine with doing something. hallelujah, thank god we _ they are fine with doing something. hallelujah, thank god we are - they are fine with doing something. hallelujah, thank god we are finally doing _ hallelujah, thank god we are finally doing something _ hallelujah, thank god we are finally doing something and _ hallelujah, thank god we are finally doing something and don't - hallelujah, thank god we are finally doing something and don't forget . hallelujah, thank god we are finallyj doing something and don't forget to include _ doing something and don't forget to include the — doing something and don't forget to include the school— doing something and don't forget to include the school securitisation - include the school securitisation part of _ include the school securitisation part of that _ include the school securitisation part of that bill _ include the school securitisation part of that bill that _ include the school securitisation part of that bill that will- part of that bill that will securitize _ part of that bill that will securitize our— part of that bill that will securitize our schools . part of that bill that will| securitize our schools to part of that bill that will- securitize our schools to make part of that bill that will— securitize our schools to make sure these _ securitize our schools to make sure these people — securitize our schools to make sure these peopte can no _ securitize our schools to make sure these people can no longer- securitize our schools to make sure these people can no longer easily. these people can no longer easily walk into — these people can no longer easily walk into our _ these people can no longer easily walk into our schools _ these people can no longer easily walk into our schools and - these people can no longer easily walk into our schools and shoot . walk into our schools and shoot things — walk into our schools and shoot things up— walk into our schools and shoot things up and _ walk into our schools and shoot things up and i— walk into our schools and shoot things up and i think— walk into our schools and shoot things up and i think this - walk into our schools and shoot things up and i think this is- walk into our schools and shoot things up and i think this is a i things up and i think this is a good thing _ things up and i think this is a good thing it's— things up and i think this is a good thing it's a— things up and i think this is a good thing it's a good— things up and i think this is a good thing. it's a good start _ things up and i think this is a good thing. it's a good start and - things up and i think this is a good thing. it's a good start and we willj thing. it's a good start and we will see if it _ thing. it's a good start and we will see if it goes any— thing. it's a good start and we will see if it goes any further, i - thing. it's a good start and we will see if it goes any further, i have . see if it goes any further, i have my doubts — see if it goes any further, i have my doubts that _ see if it goes any further, i have my doubts that anybody- see if it goes any further, i have my doubts that anybody will- see if it goes any further, i have. my doubts that anybody will build on the things— my doubts that anybody will build on the things in— my doubts that anybody will build on the things in the _ my doubts that anybody will build on the things in the future _ the things in the future but something _ the things in the future but something needed - the things in the future but something needed to -

the things in the future but something needed to be i the things in the future but- something needed to be done. i think — something needed to be done. i think i— something needed to be done. i think i know— something needed to be done. i think... i know our— something needed to be done. i think... i know our previous - something needed to be done. i. think... i know our previous guess was to— think... i know our previous guess was to make — think... i know our previous guess was to make johnson _ think... i know our previous guess was to make johnson election - think... i know our previous guess. was to make johnson election issue but i was to make johnson election issue but i think— was to make johnson election issue but i think this _ was to make johnson election issue but i think this will _ was to make johnson election issue but i think this will very— was to make johnson election issue but i think this will very much - but i think this will very much guett any— but i think this will very much guett any of— but i think this will very much quell any of the _ but i think this will very much quell any of the enthusiasm i but i think this will very much i quell any of the enthusiasm that guns _ quell any of the enthusiasm that guns witt— quell any of the enthusiasm that guns will have _ quell any of the enthusiasm that guns will have in _ quell any of the enthusiasm that guns will have in the _ quell any of the enthusiasm that guns will have in the novemberl guns will have in the november election i— guns will have in the november election i think— guns will have in the november election i think the _ guns will have in the november election i think the republicans look election i think the republicans took at — election i think the republicans took at that— election i think the republicans look at that for— election i think the republicans look at that for you _ election i think the republicans look at that for you to - election i think the republicans look at that for you to click - election i think the republicans look at that for you to click and | look at that for you to click and say it's— look at that for you to click and say it's an _ look at that for you to click and say it's an easy— look at that for you to click and say it's an easy thing _ look at that for you to click and say it's an easy thing for- look at that for you to click and say it's an easy thing for us toi say it's an easy thing for us to give — say it's an easy thing for us to live. ., say it's an easy thing for us to i ive. ., ., ., say it's an easy thing for us to live. ., ., ., �* , ., give. tom camilla bieber human on this and if this is past _ this and if this is past the republicans are not punished on it by the voters and some of had a lot of mail saying that their constituents want changes, they want gun reform, it could be a bill that leads to more?— leads to more? well, definitely. ho efull leads to more? well, definitely. hopefully it _ leads to more? well, definitely. hopefully it will not _ leads to more? well, definitely. hopefully it will not become - leads to more? well, definitely. hopefully it will not become an l hopefully it will not become an election issue because the only path ahead for gun reform in us is through bipartisanship, which of course is not in very rich supply in america currently. now you just outline what these laws mean and they don't or won't have done very much to prevent many of the worst mass shootings that have happened in america recently but it is a step in the right direction. it's a very,

very, very long rope everyjourney starts with a single step and there cannot be any doubt that it's going in the right direction and very much of the fact that there has been some aspects of the parties working together on it and if it means that it takes the issue out of the election, then that is a good thing. of course i don't have very long to pass it. three weeks before thejuly the 4th recess and the lobbying starts now but then the nra is a much diminished group. and to that point that tom just discussed, it may be that if republicans can get this over the line if there are ten votes and the nra is not able to peel some of those republicans away, that might bode well for the future. look, it's a great small step in the right— look, it's a great small step in the right direction after 30 years, is long _ right direction after 30 years, is long overdue. there are it's a much more _ long overdue. there are it's a much more teft _ long overdue. there are it's a much more left to— long overdue. there are it's a much more left to be done and let's remember it was the political pressure and the tipping point from

uvatde _ pressure and the tipping point from uvalde and buffalo that brought little pressure on everybody to get to being _ little pressure on everybody to get to being done. mitch mcconnell does not want _ to being done. mitch mcconnell does not want to talk about gun control or reform — not want to talk about gun control or reform for the rest of this election— or reform for the rest of this election because he wants to talk about all— election because he wants to talk about all the things brian outlined, so that— about all the things brian outlined, so that is— about all the things brian outlined, so that is what this is setting up too _ so that is what this is setting up too i_ so that is what this is setting up too. i would say that voters should continue _ too. i would say that voters should continue to — too. i would say that voters should continue to ask for more. we should because _ continue to ask for more. we should because republicans got everything they wanted in that bill, democrats .ot they wanted in that bill, democrats got a _ they wanted in that bill, democrats got a couple of things and the two things— got a couple of things and the two things it _ got a couple of things and the two things it will actually make some difference is the closing the boyfriend lupo and the expanded background check on 18—21 —year—olds and juvenile _ background check on 18—21 —year—olds and juvenile records. background check on 18—21 —year—olds andjuvenile records. but background check on 18—21 —year—olds and juvenile records. but the rest is targety— and juvenile records. but the rest is largely what republicans wanted to get— is largely what republicans wanted to get and it's still not enough to stop these things and we are still having _ stop these things and we are still having mass shootings every single day, at _ having mass shootings every single day, at least one if not more, nothing is _ day, at least one if not more, nothing is going to continue to be part of— nothing is going to continue to be part of the — nothing is going to continue to be part of the 2020 two election with a lot of other— part of the 2020 two election with a lot of other things and people wanting — lot of other things and people wanting to feel election he wanted to feel— wanting to feel election he wanted to feel secure and finally seeing something happening, but i think they have — something happening, but i think they have to applaud it because it

happens — they have to applaud it because it happens and but it is still a long way to— happens and but it is still a long way to go — happens and but it is still a long way to go— happens and but it is still a long wa toao. ., ., , way to go. yeah, as tom says every “ourne way to go. yeah, as tom says every journey begins with _ way to go. yeah, as tom says every journey begins with a _ way to go. yeah, as tom says every journey begins with a small - way to go. yeah, as tom says every journey begins with a small survey i journey begins with a small survey maybe this is the beginning of a much longerjourney on the wait—and—see. a google engineer says one of the firm's artificial intelligence systems he helped build might have developed its own feelings and that its concerns should be respected. google says the ai system known as lamda is a breakthrough technology that can engage in free—flowing conversations. but the engineer blake lemoine, who has since been placed on administrative leave, believes it goes further and that behind lamda's impressive verbal skills might also be a sentient mind. here's some of the transcript we have voiced up of a conversation lemoine had with the system.

dr adrian weller is programme director for al at the alan turing institute. i asked him about the capabilities of this particular system. lamda is very impressive. it is one of the most recent large language models trained with a lot of computing power on huge amounts of text data across the web and what it does is really a sophisticated form of pattern matching of text. i think that almost everyone would agree that almost everyone would agree that it that almost everyone would agree thatitis that almost everyone would agree that it is not sentient, although it can produce text output which might superficially suggest that it could be. and until you dig a little bit deeper and asked some more probing questions. deeper and asked some more probing cuestions. �* , , . questions. because sentience if the ca aci questions. because sentience if the caaci to questions. because sentience if the capacity to experience _ questions. because sentience if the capacity to experience feelings - questions. because sentience if the capacity to experience feelings and | capacity to experience feelings and sensations, to have awareness or consciousness, and what you are saying is it's not aware of what it's doing, it is programme to pull together an extraordinary fashion what it thinks we need to interpret

or what we wanted to bring together. exactly right. sentience typically involves things like awareness, consciousness and feelings, and we might never make machines which are truly sentient in the same way that humans are. these models have been getting more powerful and there are some people who believe that maybe we just need to keep scaling up these kinds of models in order to reach general intelligence, but many in the community think that we will need additional techniques, think like an understanding of causality, grounding of objects in the reward and perhaps things like symbolic reasoning. it is possible that those things might emerge without this built—in specifically. and things might emerge without this built-in specifically.— built-in specifically. and arthur c clarke's 2000 — built-in specifically. and arthur c clarke's 2000 a _ built-in specifically. and arthur c clarke's 2000 a space _ built-in specifically. and arthur c clarke's 2000 a space odyssey, i clarke's 2000 a space odyssey, how it turns nasty. should we be concerned about that? matt; it turns nasty. should we be concerned about that? may be in the distant future we _ concerned about that? may be in the distant future we might _ concerned about that? may be in the distant future we might be _ concerned about that? may be in the distant future we might be able - concerned about that? may be in the distant future we might be able to i distant future we might be able to build machines which are as intelligent as something like how

but i suggest that actually we should maintain some focus on the near term. should maintain some focus on the nearterm. right should maintain some focus on the near term. right now, these large models are already powerful. they can be very useful and can be used in very positive ways we will talk about that if we have time but they can also already be used in ways that are potentially worrying. for some could write fake news posts onto media. i would say that google did put effort into considering issues of responsibility for this model lamda but these issues are difficult. it would be great if models could be more open to a wider range of responsible researchers because addressing these challenges are not simple to manage. and we really want to try to draw in a broad, diverse audience to offer their perspectives on how we should develop these kinds of technologies. i got a boat with companies being left to their own devices to develop this kind of technology? lltla. this kind of technology? no, basically it — this kind of technology? no,

basically it sounds _ this kind of technology? no, basically it sounds to - this kind of technology? no, basically it sounds to me like you create _ basically it sounds to me like you create a — basically it sounds to me like you create a computer _ basically it sounds to me like you create a computer or— basically it sounds to me like you create a computer or a _ basically it sounds to me like you create a computer or a machine i basically it sounds to me like you i create a computer or a machine that does _ create a computer or a machine that does what _ create a computer or a machine that does what you — create a computer or a machine that does what you want _ create a computer or a machine that does what you want to _ create a computer or a machine that does what you want to hear - create a computer or a machine that does what you want to hear and - does what you want to hear and adapt all the _ does what you want to hear and adapt all the words that _ does what you want to hear and adapt all the words that it _ does what you want to hear and adapt all the words that it hears _ does what you want to hear and adapt all the words that it hears a sort - all the words that it hears a sort of mixes— all the words that it hears a sort of mixes it — all the words that it hears a sort of mixes it and _ all the words that it hears a sort of mixes it and i— all the words that it hears a sort of mixes it and i don't need - all the words that it hears a sort of mixes it and i don't need that from a _ of mixes it and i don't need that from a computer. _ of mixes it and i don't need that from a computer. i— of mixes it and i don't need that from a computer. i need - of mixes it and i don't need that from a computer. i need facts, i from a computer. i need facts, truth, — from a computer. i need facts, truth, not _ from a computer. i need facts, truth, not emotions, _ from a computer. i need facts, truth, not emotions, and - from a computer. i need facts, - truth, not emotions, and computers to compute — truth, not emotions, and computers to compute i— truth, not emotions, and computers to compute. i don't _ truth, not emotions, and computers to compute. i don't want _ truth, not emotions, and computers to compute. i don't want anything . to compute. i don't want anything that to compute. idon't want anything that will— to compute. i don't want anything that will interrupt _ to compute. i don't want anything that will interrupt the _ to compute. i don't want anything that will interrupt the computing i that will interrupt the computing process — that will interrupt the computing process so — that will interrupt the computing process so first _ that will interrupt the computing process so first of _ that will interrupt the computing process so first of all _ that will interrupt the computing process so first of all it's - process so first of all it's frightening, _ process so first of all it's frightening, i— process so first of all it's frightening, i did - process so first of all it's frightening, i did watchi process so first of all it's . frightening, i did watch the terminator— frightening, i did watch the terminator and _ frightening, i did watch the terminator and cyborgs- frightening, i did watch the terminator and cyborgs to i frightening, i did watch the - terminator and cyborgs to control because _ terminator and cyborgs to control because of— terminator and cyborgs to control because of at _ terminator and cyborgs to control because of ai technology. - terminator and cyborgs to control because of ai technology. but - terminator and cyborgs to control because of ai technology. but i l terminator and cyborgs to control. because of ai technology. but i want a computer — because of ai technology. but i want a computer to— because of ai technology. but i want a computer to give _ because of ai technology. but i want a computer to give me _ because of ai technology. but i want a computer to give me facts, - because of ai technology. but i want a computer to give me facts, data i a computer to give me facts, data without _ a computer to give me facts, data without emotions— a computer to give me facts, data without emotions in _ a computer to give me facts, data without emotions in the _ a computer to give me facts, data without emotions in the last - a computer to give me facts, data without emotions in the last thing a computer to give me facts, data. without emotions in the last thing i want is _ without emotions in the last thing i want is an— without emotions in the last thing i want is an emotional— without emotions in the last thing i want is an emotional computer- without emotions in the last thing i want is an emotional computer tell| want is an emotional computer tell me what— want is an emotional computer tell me what i— want is an emotional computer tell me what i want— want is an emotional computer tell me what i want to _ want is an emotional computer tell me what i want to hear. _ want is an emotional computer tell me what i want to hear. i- want is an emotional computer tell me what i want to hear.— want is an emotional computer tell me what i want to hear. i agree with ou and i me what i want to hear. i agree with you and i think _ me what i want to hear. i agree with you and i think one _ me what i want to hear. i agree with you and i think one of the _ me what i want to hear. i agree with you and i think one of the design - you and i think one of the design falls is they all have a plug as well. if you don't like what they are saying can we just pull it out or at least we can at the moment. i don't know whether development goes but it should always have a plug, that's what i think. brian, you'll be leaving us with thank you very much and if your attributions today, nice to see you and do stay with us as we will talk about the northern ireland protocol and we have got a commitment from the ways and means committee coming on the programme and do stay with us for that.

hello. we're looking at some significant heat building across the uk in the days ahead. we started our week with temperatures around average. the majority of us seeing figures in the high teens and low 20s. by the end of the week, many of us could be talking about the high 20s or even in excess of 30. heatwave conditions to start the week across spain, spread to central europe on wednesday and then we hook some of the heat into eastern england thursday, and by friday it's significantly widespread. many part of england and wales seeing temeratures in the high 20s to the low 30s, possibly some heat getting as far north as southern scotland. for scotland, however, we will always have some weather fronts closer by towards the north west. they'll produce some gales overnight

tonight and some more persistent rain into western coasts and across the hills and consequently, they will peg back those daytime temperatures. overnight, a mixture of clear spells and patchy cloud away from the north west of scotland and lows of 9—12 degrees. the pressure chart, on tuesday weather fronts are trying to snake into the north west. for much of the uk, tuesday promises to be a dry day. if anything, more sunshine to come across england and wales. we'll still see some cloud drifting across northern ireland and western scotland some outbreaks of rain. gales to the far north of scotland. just 14 in stornoway, but temperatures already creeping up, 24 in london on tuesday afternoon. very high pollen levels across england and wales thanks to the light winds and the sunshine. with the cloud and rain for scotland, much lower and more comfortable levels for allergy sufferers. wednesday, not much changes.

more cloud across england and wales, still some rain in western scotland, only 14 in stornoway but temperatures are creeping up further south by now, 27 in london on wednesday. wednesday into thursday and friday, this is the change that brings in that really warm air. however, low pressure get close to that north west of the uk. we pick up a more direct southerly air stream, and that surges those temperatures for the end of the week. perhaps 31, even 32 in the odd spot so if you are not a fan of the heat

hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. the uk reveals to plans to ditch part of the brexit deal with the eu — the government wants to change parts of the agreement to make it easier to move goods across the irish sea — the eu says the legislation will break international law. not a big deal, we can fix it in such a way to remove democratic barriers but without putting up barriers on trade moving north, south in the island of ireland. any negotiations would simply bring further legal uncertainty for the people and businesses in northern ireland. —— renegotiation for these reasons the european union will not

renegotiate the protocol. the white house urges the uk and the european union to return to talks to resolve differents over implementation of the northern ireland protocol. and get set for indy ref 2 — as scotland's first minister says she'll launch the campaign for a second independence referendum tomorrow. tonight with the context, democratic strategist, mary anne marsh and tom peck political sketch writer at the independent. the government has published long awaited legislation that would change northern ireland's post—brexit trading arrangements — a bill the eu says would breach international law. the draft legislation would remove checks on certain goods crossing the irish sea that are destined only for northern ireland. unionists say the protocal, which is part of the brexit

withdrawal agreement has created an internal border within the uk and they are refusing to resume power sharing at stormont until it is removed. the new legislation would establish a green lane for goods remaining in northern ireland, while goods heading into the eu across the irish border would go through a "red lane". it also has provisions what would ensure vat changes that would ensure vat changes in the uk would apply in northern ireland. and it proposes changes to the european court's oversight within the uk. despite the furious reaction from dublin — and the threat of legal action — the prime minister insist the changes are trivial. what is does is it creates unnecessary barriers on trade east, west. what we can do is fix that, it's not a big deal, we can fix it in such a way as to remove those bureaucratic barriers but without putting up barriers on trade moving north, south in the island of ireland as well. and this was the response to the proposals from the european union vice—president maros sefcovic.

renegotiating of the protcol is unrealistic. no workable alternative solution has been found to this delicate, long negotiated balance. any renegotiations would simply bring further legal uncertainty for the people and businesses in northern ireland. for these reasons the european union will not renegotiate the protocol. let's speak to the democratic congressman brendan boyle — who sits on the ways and means committee. good and means committee. to have you with us on the programme, good to have you with us on the programme, thank you for your time. the government says the protocol was designed to protect the good friday agreement and it is now undermining it and these are modest, reasonable amendments to save it. what would you say to that?— you say to that? what i would say is let's look and _ you say to that? what i would say is let's look and listen _ you say to that? what i would say is let's look and listen and _ you say to that? what i would say is let's look and listen and what - you say to that? what i would say is let's look and listen and what the i let's look and listen and what the people of northern ireland themselves have said, just last month they had an election for the northern ireland assembly. almost 60% of the vote went to those parties that are in favour of the protocol. so i hope that the british government would listen to the

voices of northern ireland who have made it clear that they do support the protocol. but made it clear that they do support the protocol-— the protocol. but didn't we listen to the thoughts _ the protocol. but didn't we listen to the thoughts and _ the protocol. but didn't we listen to the thoughts and voices - the protocol. but didn't we listen to the thoughts and voices of - to the thoughts and voices of the minority when we formed with the good friday agreement? yes. minority when we formed with the good friday agreement? yes, that's correct. good friday agreement? yes, that's correct- right _ good friday agreement? yes, that's correct. right now _ good friday agreement? yes, that's correct. right now i _ good friday agreement? yes, that's correct. right now i would _ good friday agreement? yes, that's correct. right now i would say - good friday agreement? yes, that's correct. right now i would say that i correct. right now i would say that actually society in northern ireland, there is no majority, it's roughly 40, 40, 20 society. if you are saying in order to have the protocol ud cross community support, thatjust isn't protocol ud cross community support, that just isn't the protocol ud cross community support, thatjust isn't the case. frankly, if that were the argument then brexit shouldn't have taken place in northern ireland because there was a lack of cross community support for that as well. in fact, there is a lack of majority support from about 57, 50 8% of folks voted against it. this protocol was negotiated by this same british government, they agree to it, they passed it through their own parliament and an overwhelming majority both in parliament as well as an overwhelming majority play

election the following month. but i would ask for my british friends is you please cease from these unilateral actions, this is a time in which we should be focused on russia and ukraine and not a time when we should be creating these divisions within the western alliance. ., ., , ., , alliance. there are lots of people who make _ alliance. there are lots of people who make the — alliance. there are lots of people who make the point _ alliance. there are lots of people who make the point on _ alliance. there are lots of people who make the point on the - alliance. there are lots of people who make the point on the side i alliance. there are lots of people i who make the point on the side that the uk government signed this agreement, they were happy to couplet of years ago another try to change it. we are where we are. this is the politics of the situation and the good friday agreement requires the good friday agreement requires the participation of all communities in northern ireland was up at the government is saying is whether people like it or not, the majority voted for brexit and the protocol is now under mining stability and part of the united kingdom. do you think... i guess there is a feeling within parts of northern ireland and uk government debt in america and in the european union they only take

into consideration one side of the debate and they are not focusing on the threat that comes from unionism. in response i could forward and bring up any one of several quotes from borisjohnson as well as other british government officials saying how the protocol in fact does not violate the good friday agreement. the reason two recent economic evidence shows that northern ireland is doing quite well, which makes sense. because it is able to have a benefit that many people in london and scotland would love to have and thatis and scotland would love to have and that is a foot within the eu single market in a foot within the uk market. i take seriously the concerns of everyone in northern ireland that identifies nationalist, unionist or neither, whether you identify as irish, british neither or both. the reality is, this latest action today by the british government doesn't get us anywhere closer to setting up stormont and resuming power—sharing. it's actually a big step backwards. horst

actually a big step backwards. how do ou aet actually a big step backwards. how do you get stormont up and running if the dup is that we are not returning to power—sharing until you ditch the protocol or elements of a? 15 years ago the question might�*ve been how do we have power—sharing when ian paisley is dup had just won as the single biggest party and promise not to go into government wish and fein. we can bring a previous examples over the last 25 years where it looked like power—sharing —— sinn fein. power—sharing was permanently closed only to resolve them. i do believe that that history will follow through again. it is important that ultimately the people in northern ireland are listen to, the vast majority want eight normal, functioning government, especially at this time in which all of us around the world are dealing with rising prices from inflation. what rising prices from inflation. what about the use _ rising prices from inflation. what about the use position _ rising prices from inflation. what about the use position on - about the use position on negotiation? is there enforcement of the protocol and the strict application of it proportionate with the amount, small amount of

smuggling into the single market that might result?— smuggling into the single market that might result? that's probably one of the most _ that might result? that's probably one of the most disingenuous - that might result? that's probably one of the most disingenuous and| one of the most disingenuous and confusing arguments that have been proposed. reality is, there is no one from the eu enforcing this agreement, it is uk officials themselves who are enforcing it. what i would say is, if there are areas in which one could reasonably point to and say, this enforcement is overly strict, that's not the interest of anyone. i think it is been made quite clear as recently as his proposalfor changes in october that there are ways in which we can ease the implementation, thatjust makes sense for everybody. certainly no one in washington or brussels would oppose that. you no one in washington or brussels would oppose that.— no one in washington or brussels would oppose that. you would have met the commissioner _ would oppose that. you would have met the commissioner who - would oppose that. you would have met the commissioner who is - met the commissioner who is coming to see you again to show you the draught legislation and he brought an enormous wad of red tape, all these papers that certain companies in northern ireland have to cut the

neck sign and sent off in order to import or export within the uk. do you recognise that that's pretty heavy—handed for people to trade within an internal market? yes. heavy-handed for people to trade within an internal market?- heavy-handed for people to trade within an internal market? yes, i am aware of the — within an internal market? yes, i am aware of the prop. _ within an internal market? yes, i am aware of the prop. but _ within an internal market? yes, i am aware of the prop. but i _ within an internal market? yes, i am aware of the prop. but i would - within an internal market? yes, i am aware of the prop. but i would say i aware of the prop. but i would say in responses, if you can figure out a way to have brexit and the hardest possible version of brexit, yet at the same time, not put a regulatory order on the island of ireland or in the irish sea i am all ears on what that solution would be. once the uk not only decided to get on the brexit route but the hardest possible brexit, that did limit choices. fin possible brexit, that did limit choices. , ., ., ., choices. on the visit of conor burns, choices. on the visit of conor burns. what _ choices. on the visit of conor burns, what sort _ choices. on the visit of conorj burns, what sort of reception choices. on the visit of conor. burns, what sort of reception is again to get, what he did say to him, what would you say to him of the uk does indeed pass the legislation that it's about? first, i continue legislation that it's about? first, i continue to _ legislation that it's about? first, i continue to speak _ legislation that it's about? first, i continue to speak with - legislation that it's about? first,

i continue to speak with a - legislation that it's about? first, i i continue to speak with a number legislation that it's about? f zit i continue to speak with a number of british government officials about i have over the last six years that we have over the last six years that we have been dealing with the saga ever since the brexit vote. but i would say to him respectfully is much of what i said before that this is not helpful, the northern ireland protocol has been agreed to, we should focus on implementation and making the agreement work. we should be talking about ways in which we can make the democratically expressed wishes of the voters of northern ireland last month actually be carried out in terms of getting the assembly up and running. finally, what i would say regardless of the merits of the northern ireland issue can put that aside for second, this is an important moment in the transatlantic alliance. right now tens of thousands of people in ukraine, on european soil are being killed and this is what we are now having to deal with. all of us in the west and western capital should be focused on the situation in ukraine for the anything that

distracts from that is a true tragedy. iili distracts from that is a true tra . ed . , ., ., , distracts from that is a true traced . ., tragedy. if the uk government was to breach international _ tragedy. if the uk government was to breach international law— tragedy. if the uk government was to breach international law as _ tragedy. if the uk government was to breach international law as you - tragedy. if the uk government was to breach international law as you see i breach international law as you see it, would you be loath to sign an international agreement trade deal with the uk? use it on the ways and means committee, you would have to stamp it. means committee, you would have to stam it. ., �* ~ 3 stamp it. yeah. and i think it's fairly common _ stamp it. yeah. and i think it's fairly common sense _ stamp it. yeah. and i think it's fairly common sense that - stamp it. yeah. and i think it's fairly common sense that if. stamp it. yeah. and i think it's - fairly common sense that if you have a potential trading partner and they literally, the last agreement they signed that they breach sort click back shortly dear after doesn't inspire confidence.— back shortly dear after doesn't inspire confidence. thank you very much indeed- _ inspire confidence. thank you very much indeed. talk _ inspire confidence. thank you very much indeed. talk react _ inspire confidence. thank you very much indeed. talk react to - inspire confidence. thank you very much indeed. talk react to that i inspire confidence. thank you very| much indeed. talk react to that for us. �* , ., . ., , much indeed. talk react to that for us. 2 much indeed. talk react to that for us. he's actually right. there's a lot of nitty-gritty _ us. he's actually right. there's a lot of nitty-gritty there. - us. he's actually right. there's a lot of nitty-gritty there. but - lot of nitty—gritty there. but fundamentally, the point is that brexit. — fundamentally, the point is that brexit, the vote for brexit happen six years— brexit, the vote for brexit happen six years ago, it is pretty clear that— six years ago, it is pretty clear that if— six years ago, it is pretty clear that if you _ six years ago, it is pretty clear that if you are pursuing the higher, form _ that if you are pursuing the higher, form of— that if you are pursuing the higher, form of brexit there is no solution to the _ form of brexit there is no solution to the problem, you can't have an open _ to the problem, you can't have an open border— to the problem, you can't have an open border between two different custom _

open border between two different custom systems, there is not one that exist — custom systems, there is not one that exist anywhere on earth. they are watching a little bit on the agreement that they agreed to. the eu is responding with potential tegal— eu is responding with potential legal action on wednesday. for the entity— legal action on wednesday. for the entity of— legal action on wednesday. for the entity of gritty of that, we will have _ entity of gritty of that, we will have to — entity of gritty of that, we will have to wait and see. but arguably, the most _ have to wait and see. but arguably, the most interesting thing about this is— the most interesting thing about this is that i would say whilst it was all— this is that i would say whilst it was all quite incendiary, normal people — was all quite incendiary, normal people probably find it quite boring _ people probably find it quite boring. and that is encouraging because the only route forward on brexit _ because the only route forward on brexit is— because the only route forward on brexit is if— because the only route forward on brexit is if it becomes less toxic, tess febrile — brexit is if it becomes less toxic, less febrile that it was for the past — less febrile that it was for the past three years when they argued about— past three years when they argued about it _ past three years when they argued about it before it even happened. i think— about it before it even happened. i think realistically, the path ahead is some _ think realistically, the path ahead is some form of route towards something a bit like the single market— something a bit like the single market because it's the only solution _ market because it's the only solution to this problem. and that really— solution to this problem. and that really is _ solution to this problem. and that really is the direction of travel. it really is the direction of travel. it will— really is the direction of travel. it will be — really is the direction of travel. it will be easy to get there when people _ it will be easy to get there when people are less angry about it and we are _ people are less angry about it and we are all bored by it and the brexit— we are all bored by it and the brexit problem is a good thing. the

brexit problem is a good thing. lie: irish—american brexit problem is a good thing. “é: irish—american lobby brexit problem is a good thing. i“i9 irish—american lobby within congress, is pretty powerful. irish-american lobby within congress, is pretty powerful. pretty owerful, i congress, is pretty powerful. pretty powerful, i would _ congress, is pretty powerful. pretty powerful, i would point _ congress, is pretty powerful. pretty powerful, i would point to _ congress, is pretty powerful. pretty powerful, i would point to the - congress, is pretty powerful. pretty powerful, i would point to the fact l powerful, i would point to the fact that brandon _ powerful, i would point to the fact that brandon boyles_ powerful, i would point to the fact that brandon boyles chairman - powerful, i would point to the fact that brandon boyles chairman of i powerful, i would point to the fact. that brandon boyles chairman of the ways and _ that brandon boyles chairman of the ways and means_ that brandon boyles chairman of the ways and means committee - that brandon boyles chairman of the ways and means committee is - that brandon boyles chairman of the ways and means committee is froml ways and means committee is from massachusetts _ ways and means committee is from massachusetts who _ ways and means committee is from massachusetts who spent _ ways and means committee is from massachusetts who spent his - ways and means committee is from massachusetts who spent his entire career— massachusetts who spent his entire career trying — massachusetts who spent his entire career trying to _ massachusetts who spent his entire career trying to bring _ massachusetts who spent his entire career trying to bring peace - massachusetts who spent his entire career trying to bring peace to- career trying to bring peace to northern— career trying to bring peace to northern ireland, _ career trying to bring peace to northern ireland, very- career trying to bring peace toi northern ireland, very involved career trying to bring peace to- northern ireland, very involved with the good _ northern ireland, very involved with the good friday— northern ireland, very involved with the good friday agreement. - northern ireland, very involved with the good friday agreement. he's. the good friday agreement. he's someone — the good friday agreement. he's someone i— the good friday agreement. he's someone i would _ the good friday agreement. he's someone i would be _ the good friday agreement. he's someone i would be watching - the good friday agreement. he's someone i would be watching on| the good friday agreement. he's. someone i would be watching on the trip coming — someone i would be watching on the trip coming up _ someone i would be watching on the trip coming up. from _ someone i would be watching on the trip coming up. from a _ someone i would be watching on the trip coming up. from a strictly- trip coming up. from a strictly political— trip coming up. from a strictly political viewpoint, _ trip coming up. from a strictly political viewpoint, this- trip coming up. from a strictly political viewpoint, this looksl trip coming up. from a strictly. political viewpoint, this looks to me that — political viewpoint, this looks to me that boris _ political viewpoint, this looks to me that boris johnson - political viewpoint, this looks to me that borisjohnson is - political viewpoint, this looks to me that boris johnson is trying i political viewpoint, this looks to. me that borisjohnson is trying to change _ me that borisjohnson is trying to change the — me that borisjohnson is trying to change the topic— me that borisjohnson is trying to change the topic here, _ me that borisjohnson is trying to change the topic here, try- me that borisjohnson is trying to change the topic here, try to - me that boris johnson is trying to i change the topic here, try to change the conversation, _ change the topic here, try to change the conversation, he _ change the topic here, try to change the conversation, he would - change the topic here, try to change the conversation, he would father. the conversation, he would father rather— the conversation, he would father rather talk— the conversation, he would father rather talk about _ the conversation, he would father rather talk about northern - the conversation, he would father rather talk about northern island i rather talk about northern island trade _ rather talk about northern island trade borders— rather talk about northern island trade borders and _ rather talk about northern island trade borders and brexit, - rather talk about northern island trade borders and brexit, whichi trade borders and brexit, which helped — trade borders and brexit, which helped make _ trade borders and brexit, which helped make him _ trade borders and brexit, which helped make him prime - trade borders and brexit, whichi helped make him prime minister trade borders and brexit, which - helped make him prime minister that helped make him prime minister that he would _ helped make him prime minister that he would about — helped make him prime minister that he would about the _ helped make him prime minister that he would about the political- helped make him prime minister that he would about the political damage i he would about the political damage is inflicted _ he would about the political damage is inflicted on — he would about the political damage is inflicted on himself— he would about the political damage is inflicted on himself with _ is inflicted on himself with the recall— is inflicted on himself with the recall vote _ is inflicted on himself with the recall vote recently— is inflicted on himself with the recall vote recently and - is inflicted on himself with the recall vote recently and the i recall vote recently and the collateral _ recall vote recently and the collateral damage - recall vote recently and the collateral damage coming i recall vote recently and the . collateral damage coming out recall vote recently and the - collateral damage coming out of that _ collateral damage coming out of that thats— collateral damage coming out of that. that's what _ collateral damage coming out of that. that's what this _ collateral damage coming out of that. that's what this looks - collateral damage coming out of that. that's what this looks like| collateral damage coming out of. that. that's what this looks like to me. that. that's what this looks like to me so _ that. that's what this looks like to me. ,, :, :, that. that's what this looks like to me, ., ., , that. that's what this looks like to me. . , :: . �*, me. so far he has succeeded. that's a really interesting _ me. so far he has succeeded. that's a really interesting point. _ me. so far he has succeeded. that's a really interesting point. it- me. so far he has succeeded. that's a really interesting point. it was- a really interesting point. it was reporting around this morning that actually the chancellor and michael go wanted the government to put out a softer version —— michael go. and

then he switch largely because he is coming under pressure from the hard—line brexiteers within his party who he needs at this time because 140 of his mps already voted against him. i’m because 140 of his mps already voted arainst him. �* :, , against him. i'm not sure, the distraction starts _ against him. i'm not sure, the distraction starts sure, - against him. i'm not sure, the distraction starts sure, what l against him. i'm not sure, thel distraction starts sure, what he against him. i'm not sure, the - distraction starts sure, what he got his own _ distraction starts sure, what he got his own fixed penalty notices, the next day — his own fixed penalty notices, the next day he was ready with this mad rwanda _ next day he was ready with this mad rwanda scheme. there is another insane _ rwanda scheme. there is another insane thing that came out the day after after— insane thing that came out the day after after the sucre report. i think— after after the sucre report. i think probably the northern ireland particle _ think probably the northern ireland particle stuff was ready to go. yes, as you _ particle stuff was ready to go. yes, as you described, what is very odd about— as you described, what is very odd about this — as you described, what is very odd about this administration that we have _ about this administration that we have and — about this administration that we have and it will always be this way now is— have and it will always be this way now is it _ have and it will always be this way now is it has in 80 seat majority butjohnson is powerless in it because _ butjohnson is powerless in it because there are so many faction pulling _ because there are so many faction pulling every which way they choose. he knows— pulling every which way they choose. he knows that he is essentially, the chance _ he knows that he is essentially, the chance of— he knows that he is essentially, the chance of another confidence vote are not— chance of another confidence vote are not small. i know that supposed to have _ are not small. i know that supposed to have them for another year but they can _ to have them for another year but they can change the rules. so every

faction _ they can change the rules. so every faction has — they can change the rules. so every faction has got bumped to eight johnson — faction has got bumped to eight johnson up against a wall, really. you remember that word cloud which supposedly framed how people perceived borisjohnson. the word thatjumped out was liar for the out 2000 responses 72% were negative. they have just done another one of these on keir starmer. the word most commonly associated from him is boring. and out of the 2000 responses 50% were negative. this is a real issue for sir keir starmer. you have a deeply unpopular prime minister 140 of his mps want him out and there was a bowl and the observer this weekend with suggest that people think borisjohnson would be a better prime minister. == people think boris johnson would be a better prime minister.— a better prime minister. -- paul. there's nothing _ a better prime minister. -- paul. there's nothing wrong _ a better prime minister. -- paul. there's nothing wrong with - a better prime minister. -- paul. i there's nothing wrong with boring. i think— there's nothing wrong with boring. i think a _ there's nothing wrong with boring. i think a few— there's nothing wrong with boring. i think a few of those words were lroring. — think a few of those words were boring, bland and honest. and trustworthy. i don't think the trustworthy. idon't think the country— trustworthy. i don't think the

country would suffer from a period of lroring _ country would suffer from a period of boring bland and honest leadership. it is not a problem for problem _ leadership. it is not a problem for problem to— leadership. it is not a problem for problem to elect politicians to be lroring. _ problem to elect politicians to be boring, but the problem with being lroring _ boring, but the problem with being lroring is— boring, but the problem with being lroring is if— boring, but the problem with being boring is if you spark peoples interests _ boring is if you spark peoples interests it then becomes impossible for you _ interests it then becomes impossible for you to _ interests it then becomes impossible for you to convey to them what you stand _ for you to convey to them what you stand for. — for you to convey to them what you stand for, what you would do to change — stand for, what you would do to change allies, what policies you have _ change allies, what policies you have and — change allies, what policies you have and how you will the country. what _ have and how you will the country. what you're — have and how you will the country. what you're suggesting is boring would be good at this time, we could all do with a bit of boring. if that's the worthy associate rather than policies, his economic plan then he a problem.— than policies, his economic plan then he a problem. yeah. i don't come here _ then he a problem. yeah. i don't come here to — then he a problem. yeah. i don't come here to defend _ then he a problem. yeah. i don't come here to defend any - then he a problem. yeah. i don't. come here to defend any politician in any— come here to defend any politician in any way— come here to defend any politician in any way shape or form but i would say keir— in any way shape or form but i would say keir starmer is a more ruthless and cunning — say keir starmer is a more ruthless and cunning politician than people .ive and cunning politician than people give them — and cunning politician than people give them credit for. he's extricated himself from the court without terminating his political career— without terminating his political career but all of his rivals dead. and he — career but all of his rivals dead. and he has— career but all of his rivals dead. and he has got two more years to go before _ and he has got two more years to go before an election at least. you may

find in _ before an election at least. you may find in that— before an election at least. you may find in that time that he will find a way— find in that time that he will find a way of— find in that time that he will find a way of connecting better with voters — a way of connecting better with voters and expanding to them what it is that— voters and expanding to them what it is that labour is offering. but he does _ is that labour is offering. but he does have — is that labour is offering. but he does have to clear the boring hurdle without _ does have to clear the boring hurdle without any— does have to clear the boring hurdle without any shadow of a doubt. we have a without any shadow of a doubt. 9 have a deeply unpopular leader here. this weekend suggestions that some democrats are wavering on whether they would supportjoe biden for a second term. cortes was quite liberal on the party was asked several times that she would support them and she provided gated. i she would support them and she provided gated.— she would support them and she provided gated. i would say after trum ed provided gated. i would say after trumped the _ provided gated. i would say after trumped the united _ provided gated. i would say after trumped the united states - provided gated. i would say after| trumped the united states boring provided gated. i would say after. trumped the united states boring in biden so you never know. it's way too early to talk about 2024. although there are people who are talking about it, you kind of see aged shadow primary going on. i think how things go in the midterm elections in 2022just

think how things go in the midterm elections in 2022 just around the corner in november is certainly going to have a lot of weight for the by the way, i'm just reminding everyone thatjoe biden has made no... he said to her basically, i have every intention of running. once you decide not to run, you're a lame duck. so i don't think you're going to hearfrom lame duck. so i don't think you're going to hear from joe lame duck. so i don't think you're going to hearfrom joe biden for a long time. going to hear from joe biden for a lona time. , long time. interesting point. especially — long time. interesting point. especially at _ long time. interesting point. especially at a _ long time. interesting point. especially at a midterm - long time. interesting point. - especially at a midterm election. okay. now, it's time for the panel. i put another 50p in the meter. marianne, let me start with you. what is it that you want to talk about? :, , :, what is it that you want to talk about? :, ~ , . . about? i... the form your australian basketball player, _ about? i... the form your australian basketball player, nba _ about? i... the form your australian basketball player, nba player who l basketball player, nba player who was inducted to the women's basketball hall of fame this weekend. she used her speech to beg for the release of britney briner is being wrongfully detained in russia, longer than he's been invading

ukraine. but like every great award ceremony she spanked her family and her children, she thanked her wife, arguably the goat of all times when it comes to women's basketball. other children of well it was a reaction of her son leo when she was talking about him from the stage thatjust melted your heart. that 'ust melted your heart. we've not thatjust melted your heart. we've not it, thatjust melted your heart. we've got it, let's watch _ we've got it, sweet, blowing kisses. i a basketball fan? celtics, nine o'clock tonight, it's killing my sleep schedule, okay.- o'clock tonight, it's killing my sleep schedule, okay. game five. it's the finals _ sleep schedule, okay. game five. it's the finals for _ sleep schedule, okay. game five. it's the finals for that _ sleep schedule, okay. game five. it's the finals for that is _ sleep schedule, okay. game five. it's the finals for that is at - sleep schedule, okay. game five. it's the finals for that is at the - it's the finals for that is at the golden state warriors?-

it's the finals for that is at the golden state warriors? yes. and celtics win _ golden state warriors? yes. and celtics win one, _ golden state warriors? yes. and celtics win one, luzon, - golden state warriors? yes. and celtics win one, luzon, when - celtics win one, luzon, when one, lose malmberg and go the way to game seven. it lose malmberg and go the way to game seven. ~' , , lose malmberg and go the way to game seven. ~ ,, i. , seven. it keeps you interested, an a . seven. it keeps you interested, anyway- l _ seven. it keeps you interested, anyway- i see _ seven. it keeps you interested, anyway- i see it— seven. it keeps you interested, anyway. i see it on _ seven. it keeps you interested, anyway. i see it on your - seven. it keeps you interested, anyway. i see it on your tweet. | anyway. i see it on your tweet. i'll follow you on your twitter feed. 50. follow you on your twitter feed. so, what do you — follow you on your twitter feed. so, what do you want talk about? i don't know why _ what do you want talk about? i don't know why really but over the course of the _ know why really but over the course of the weekend i was very depressed about— of the weekend i was very depressed about the fact that there is no world — about the fact that there is no world happening this summer as there should _ world happening this summer as there should he, _ world happening this summer as there should be, it's a disgrace that there is— should be, it's a disgrace that there is not. and i was at a barbecue _ there is not. and i was at a barbecue and a discussion that we need _ barbecue and a discussion that we need to— barbecue and a discussion that we need to cut — barbecue and a discussion that we need to cut down our our meat eating in this— need to cut down our our meat eating in this house — need to cut down our our meat eating in this house off our family have tfought— in this house off our family have bought launch the vegan world cup in which _ bought launch the vegan world cup in which i _ bought launch the vegan world cup in which i encourage everyone to take part _ which i encourage everyone to take art. :, : ., which i encourage everyone to take art. . : :, which i encourage everyone to take art. :, :, which i encourage everyone to take art. :, 9 :, :, , part. the vegan world cup? who is in the vegan world _ part. the vegan world cup? who is in the vegan world cup? _ part. the vegan world cup? who is in the vegan world cup? all _ part. the vegan world cup? who is in the vegan world cup? all of - part. the vegan world cup? who is in the vegan world cup? all of the - the vegan world cup? all of the competing _ the vegan world cup? all of the competing nations _ the vegan world cup? all of the competing nations of— the vegan world cup? all of the competing nations of the - the vegan world cup? all of the competing nations of the world | the vegan world cup? all of the - competing nations of the world cup are represented by a vegan meal, and the style _ are represented by a vegan meal, and the style of— are represented by a vegan meal, and the style of their own countries cooking — the style of their own countries cooking. and over when they are due to play— cooking. and over when they are due to play in— cooking. and over when they are due

to play in the workup, it should be happening now but it isn't that meal will he _ happening now but it isn't that meal will be prepared in the castle. and in forward — will be prepared in the castle. and in forward time we will have a vegan world _ in forward time we will have a vegan world cup— in forward time we will have a vegan world cup winner. and i am backing brazil— world cup winner. and i am backing brazil with— world cup winner. and i am backing brazil with the roasted vegetable sa-e brazil with the roasted vegetable sage water, america should do very well _ sage water, america should do very well. :, :, sage water, america should do very well. . :, ::, sage water, america should do very well. . :, , :, :, well. -- sage water. how can you go vegetarian — well. -- sage water. how can you go vegetarian when _ well. -- sage water. how can you go vegetarian when argentina _ well. -- sage water. how can you go vegetarian when argentina are - vegetarian when argentina are playing? vegetarian when argentina are .la in. ? : ., , vegetarian when argentina are .la ini? : ., , ., vegetarian when argentina are -la in? : . , playing? argentina is a struggle. the biggest _ playing? argentina is a struggle. the biggest struggle is _ playing? argentina is a struggle. the biggest struggle is wales. i the biggest struggle is wales. there's— the biggest struggle is wales. there's a _ the biggest struggle is wales. there's a lot of countries like that — there's a lot of countries like that... leaf pie? yeah, that might do. that... leaf pie? yeah, that might do what— that... leaf pie? yeah, that might do. what you got a problem is with a lot of— do. what you got a problem is with a lot of national cuisines you can have to — lot of national cuisines you can have to replace the, putting fake ham and — have to replace the, putting fake ham and cheese together and hoping for the _ ham and cheese together and hoping for the best. are you vegan? no, not in any— for the best. are you vegan? no, not in any way— for the best. are you vegan? no, not in any way shape or form. i've been meaning _ in any way shape or form. i've been meaning to — in any way shape or form. i've been meaning to eat less meat but i've never _ meaning to eat less meat but i've never really get on with it. this is the way i — never really get on with it. this is the way i had. no never really get on with it. this is the way i had-— the way i had. no disrespect, i rather go _ the way i had. no disrespect, i rather go to — the way i had. no disrespect, i rather go to marianne - the way i had. no disrespect, i rather go to marianne house i the way i had. no disrespect, i l rather go to marianne house for the way i had. no disrespect, i i rather go to marianne house for a basketball finals rather than the

vegan world cup.— basketball finals rather than the vegan world cup. 100%. whatever an bod vegan world cup. 100%. whatever anybody wants- — vegan world cup. 10096. whatever anybody wants. are _ vegan world cup. 10096. whatever anybody wants. are you _ vegan world cup. 10096. whatever anybody wants. are you a - vegan world cup. 10096. whatever anybody wants. are you a vegan i anybody wants. are you a vegan marianne. _ anybody wants. are you a vegan marianne. any _ anybody wants. are you a vegan marianne, any tendency - anybody wants. are you a vegan marianne, any tendency that - anybody wants. are you a vegan i marianne, any tendency that way? anybody wants. are you a vegan - marianne, any tendency that way? no, i am not. marianne, any tendency that way? no, i am not- let's— marianne, any tendency that way? idrr, i am not. let's be clear, of a bit domestically challenged but i'm really good at ordering and all those things. everybody�*s needs are always taking care of. those things. everybody's needs are always taking care of.— always taking care of. who's going to cook the — always taking care of. who's going to cook the vegan _ always taking care of. who's going to cook the vegan food _ always taking care of. who's going to cook the vegan food in - always taking care of. who's going to cook the vegan food in your - to cook the vegan food in your household goods? me. to cook the vegan food in your household goods? me, definitely. should i invite _ household goods? me, definitely. should i invite our _ household goods? me, definitely. should i invite our viewers - household goods? me, definitely. should i invite our viewers to - household goods? me, definitely. | should i invite our viewers to send you recipes from wherever they are watching in the world? this is a global program. as they are watching and they have a team normally represented at the world cup they could send you their suggestions for the vegan meal.— the vegan meal. definitely. polling strui iliin a the vegan meal. definitely. polling struggling a bit _ the vegan meal. definitely. polling struggling a bit with _ the vegan meal. definitely. polling struggling a bit with that. - struggling a bit with that. definitely wales, really want to do wales— definitely wales, really want to do walesjustice and i'm not doing so well my— walesjustice and i'm not doing so well my friend. i'll take anything of a bit — well my friend. i'll take anything of a bit with that. definitely wales, _ of a bit with that. definitely wales, really want to do wales justice — wales, really want to do wales justice and i'm not doing so well my

friend _ justice and i'm not doing so well my friend ill— justice and i'm not doing so well my friend. i'll take anything over vegan — friend. i'll take anything over vegan shepherd's pie which is currently— vegan shepherd's pie which is currently the pot... vegan shepherd's pie which is currently the pot. . .— vegan shepherd's pie which is currently the pot... i currently the pot... black beans. i thinki currently the pot... black beans. i think i could _ currently the pot... black beans. i think i could go _ currently the pot... black beans. i think i could go all _ currently the pot... black beans. i think i could go all the _ currently the pot... black beans. i think i could go all the way. - currently the pot... black beans. i think i could go all the way. i - currently the pot... black beans. i think i could go all the way. i will| think i could go all the way. i will take all— think i could go all the way. i will take all suggestions by all means. 0kay~ _ take all suggestions by all means. 0kay~ we — take all suggestions by all means. okay. we shall certainly have a look at that. marianne, what is the next game in the nba finals before we go? four hours from now. how do you watch it, do you sit down with the vegan meal and get ready for a? how do you normally do that? i’m do you normally do that? i'm superstitious _ do you normally do that? i'm superstitious like _ do you normally do that? i�*ii superstitious like any boston sports fan. i asked marcus smart to go back to the green tinted here cat and they started when it again. is it they started when it again. is it the same place, i tweet the same things, that's it. i the same place, i tweet the same things, that's it.— things, that's it. i shall imagine ou things, that's it. i shall imagine you tonight _ things, that's it. i shall imagine you tonight treating _ things, that's it. i shall imagine you tonight treating everybody. j things, that's it. i shall imaginel you tonight treating everybody. i shall imagine tom peck goes through his vegan recipe book. the things you take away from this program. lovely to see you both. thank you for being with us. we will be back at the same time tomorrow. thanks very much for watching. good night.

hello. we're set to see some pretty significant heat building across the uk in the days ahead. we started our week with temperatures around average for the time of year, high teens and low 20s. by the end of the week, however, we're anticipating widely temperatures in the high 20s and in some areas in excess of 30 degrees. the heatwave across spain currently will extend into central europe through the middle of the week and through thursday, friday, we'll tap into that plume of warm air from the continent and see it spreading a good way across england and wales. some warmth getting into the south of scotland as well. for tuesday we still have high pressure to the south of the uk, weather fronts trying to get in to the north—west. under the area of high pressure on tuesday there should be more breaks in the cloud than we saw on monday.

so i think more widespread sunshine across england and wales, still some thicker cloud, particularly pushing into the north—west of scotland, bringing some persistent, if not especially heavy rain here, but just 14 for stornoway, in contrast up to 24 in london through tuesday. overnight, tuesday into wednesday, some patchy cloud around, but clear spells for the majority. again, some rain pushing towards the north—west of scotland. the winds will be quite strong to the far north of scotland as well. overnight lows somewhere in the range of nine to 12. for midweek, not much changes, high pressure still to the south, fronts still trying to push in to the north—west. a lot of fine weather across the uk as a whole on wednesday, but it's still the far north and west of scotland with a chance of seeing some outbreaks of rain on and off through the day. perhaps the odd shower for northern ireland. but build, build all the while those temperatures further south across england and wales, 27 in the south—east on wednesday, stilljust 14 there in stornoway. and even on thursday, as we see temperatures creeping

into the high 20s across parts of england and wales, western scotland loses out because of thicker cloud and some potentially quite intense showers. some of those could also graze into northern ireland, but 19 for belfast, up to 27 in london by thursday. and then we get to friday and that's when we start to see the high further south pulling away eastwards, this low engaging towards the north—west. we end up with a direct southerly airstream and that pulls the hottest air of the week in across the uk into england and wales, perhaps into the far south of scotland too. but further north we're still at the mercy of this weather front, producing more cloud and some outbreaks of rain on and off. 50 still only 15 in stornoway, potentially 31 in parts of the south—east and east anglia all the way across to the welsh border friday into saturday, however, if you're not a fan of the heat, we have a cold front which will quickly make its way southwards. overnight friday into saturday, i think things are going to get quite lively as we see thunderstorms breaking out ahead of the cold front. there could be some quite intense

rain around on saturday. and the clue, of course, is in the name — behind the front, colder, well, relatively cooler, we should say, at this time of year. i think air temperatures sliding down into the teens, could still be some warmth across the far south—east of england. but by the weekend, we start to see that pulling away towards the continent and on into next week, we're looking at a return to closer to average temperatures, the jet stream targeting itself at the uk. i think it's often going to be breezy for next week and there will be some outbreaks of rain around at times too. so a peak in the heat on friday across the uk, turning thundery through the weekend and then a return to much more average temperatures from the weekend onwards.

tonight at ten — a special report from the front line as russian forces tighten their grip on eastern ukraine. as desperate civilians try to flee the city of lysychansk, we have evidence of the ruthless tactics used by russia. this is a deliberate tactic — bomb, shell, burn, and leave nothing but scorched earth. and in neigbouring severodonetsk, the russians have virtually cut off the city from the rest of ukraine. we'll have compelling new accounts of the progress being made by president putin's forces. also tonight... despite loud protests, the court of appeal gives the go—ahead for the first flight taking asylum seekers to rwanda.