here that see lots of showers. fewer showers and the warmest weather in the east. hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. was this the bombshell testimony we have been waiting for in the january sixth hearings? cassidy hutchinson — a trump loyalist — and former aide to the white hose chief of staff said the president had wanted to lead the march on the us capitol and didn't care his supporters were armed. i was iwas in i was in the vicinity of a conversation where i overheard the president say something to the effect of i don't effing care if they have weapons. they are not here to hurt me. tonight will dig deep into what this latest testimony means for the former president donald trump? and we'll be speaking to alex holder — the documentary maker — who had full access to the trump family in the days leading up to the january sixth riots. his footage now a key part

of the evidence in these hearings. big news out of madrid tonight where turkey has given the green the light to finland and swedens membership of nato. it stretches nato�*s border with russia, and significantly bolsters europe's eastern flank and is this a 1937 moment, the head of the british army says the uk is under prepared to meet the renewed challenge from russia. tonight with the context, former adviser to hillary clinton amanda renteria — the former uk national security adviser — lord peter ricketts and former federal prosecutorjoe moreno. hello and welcome to the programme. in the last few hours we have heard some of the most stunning testimony from the january 6th committee. cassidy hutchinson, a senior aide to the white house chief of staff, has given evidence that former president trump and his senior aides not only knew there were plans

to march on the capitol onjan 6th, they knew days before of the potential for violence. and ahead of the speech on the elipse that day, the president was told his supporters, who trying to get into the rally, were armed some of them with semi automatic weapons. i don't effing care if they have weapons. they aren't here to hurt me, take the effing bags away. let my people in. they can march to the capitalfrom here. the president ignored the legal advice from white house council that he should temper the language he used in his speech. he ignored advice that he should return to the west wing after the speech. he was adamant that he would be marching on the capitol with the crowds — fully aware they were armed. but in the motorcade, when told by security detail bobby engel, that would not be happening, the president, quite literally, lost the plot. the president said something to the effect of imb effing president, take me up to the capital now. the

president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr ingle grabbed his arm, said, "sir, we need to take your hand out the steering wheel. we are going back to the west wing, we are going back to the west wing, we are not going to the capital." mr trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby ingle, and when he had recounted the story to me, he had a motion that she motioned toward his clavicle. trump denies this accusation. but cassidy hutchinson believes it was not the first time the president had let his temper get the better of him. in december when his attorney general has told reporters there was no evidence to donald trumps; claims of election fraud. the president threw his lunch at the wall. i first noticed there was catchup dripping down the wall and there was a shattered person plate on the floor. the valet had articulated that the president was extremely angry at the attorney general�*s ap

interview and had thrown his lunch against the wall. let's bring in former federal prosecutorjoe moreno to his discussion. she was in the room onjanuary six and the days before and thereafter. she is the ultimate fly on the wall. what stood out for you?— she is the ultimate fly on the wall. what stood out for you? yeah, one, i think everyone _ what stood out for you? yeah, one, i think everyone thought _ what stood out for you? yeah, one, i think everyone thought they - what stood out for you? yeah, one, i think everyone thought they had - think everyone thought they had heard every single story about this, you heard leading up to this testimony, this hearing, where everyone said there's not going to be anything new here, i think people are shocked, surprised, to hear of the fundamental story on the day of and to hear the lead witness, the lead energy was actually trump himself driving exactly what he wanted to do on that day, but also in the days leading up to it. the other piece here is she had names, she had a full account, a timeline, what people were wearing, what

things looked like planet the door was slightly open. and he it actually does that by a matter of design and theirjob, but to hear the careful layout of it all come into hear the names of the specific conversations with such detail really gave it to credibility. the last thing i will say about it is the courage here. what sticks to anyone, she is a young public servant, 25 years old, a trump loyalist, was there for a long time through the ups and downs. there she was testifying about what was really going on and we are hearing conversations that are happening from senior level executives who are completely silent at the moment, who asked for pardons, in fact. i think all of it was a moment for everyone to tune in and recognise what courage looks like, what silence looks like and what —— who really was directing everything going on, leading up to and on the day of january six. leading up to and on the day of january sim— leading up to and on the day of january six. leading up to and on the day of janua six. ~ ., _, . ~ ., january six. with a come back to the careful layout of _ january six. with a come back to the careful layout of what _ january six. with a come back to the careful layout of what she _

january six. with a come back to the careful layout of what she heard - january six. with a come back to the careful layout of what she heard and when she saw in the second. joe, you are a form of federal prosecutor can is this the kind of witness you would want to put on the stand? christian, there were so many things. — christian, there were so many things. so_ christian, there were so many things, so many lines i took from this testimony today, but when i wrote _ this testimony today, but when i wrote down, as an american, i was disgusted. — wrote down, as an american, i was disgusted, we were watching the capital— disgusted, we were watching the capital being defaced over a lie. this was— capital being defaced over a lie. this was devastating testimony by miss hutchinson. she was credible, she was— miss hutchinson. she was credible, she was organised, she was believable to me and she was an insider~ — believable to me and she was an insider. like amanda said, we have so much _ insider. like amanda said, we have so much more information after these two hours _ so much more information after these two hours of— so much more information after these two hours of testimony about what happened — two hours of testimony about what happened that day and how aware and how cognizant the white house was that there _ how cognizant the white house was that there was going to be violence at the _ that there was going to be violence at the capital onjanuary that there was going to be violence at the capital on january six, and that the — at the capital on january six, and that the president sat on his hands and the _ that the president sat on his hands and the people around him said mr president — and the people around him said mr president we have to do something and he _ president we have to do something and he did — president we have to do something and he did nothing, he encouraged it. very, _ and he did nothing, he encouraged it. very, very effective testimony

and has — it. very, very effective testimony and has political and legal consequences for their former president. consequences for their former president-— consequences for their former resident. ., ., ., ., president. cognizant of the threat, peter, let president. cognizant of the threat, peter. let me _ president. cognizant of the threat, peter, let me play _ president. cognizant of the threat, peter, let me play a _ president. cognizant of the threat, peter, let me play a little - president. cognizant of the threat, peter, let me play a little bit - president. cognizant of the threat, peter, let me play a little bit of. peter, let me play a little bit of what we've heard. she recounts a conversation that she had with donald trump's personal layer on january two —— january two. and he says to her, are you looking forward to january six? we are going to the capital, the president is going to look tall, he is going to look for us. she went back to the office and talked to mark meadows about what she just heard, talked to mark meadows about what shejust heard, which talked to mark meadows about what she just heard, which disturbed talked to mark meadows about what shejust heard, which disturbed her, and this is the response she got. i found mr meadows on the couch, scrolling through his phone, i remember leaning against the doorway and saying, ijust heard of an interesting conversation with rithika and it sounds like we're going to go to the capital. he didn't look up from his phone and said something to the effect of, "there is a lot going on, but i don't know. things might get real, real bad onjanuary six." when

hearing rudy's take onjanuary six and mark's response, that was the first time that evening was the first time that evening was the first moment that i remember feeling scared, and nervous for what could happen onjanuary scared, and nervous for what could happen on january six. scared, and nervous for what could happen onjanuary six. i had a deeper concern for what was happening with the planning aspect. this sense of foreboding that was building within the white house, four days before the actual march. it is spine chilling stuff, isn't it? bearing in mind this man is the commander— it? bearing in mind this man is the commander in chief of the most powerful— commander in chief of the most powerful military forces in the world, — powerful military forces in the world, the leader of the leading democracy of the world, yet there seems _ democracy of the world, yet there seems to— democracy of the world, yet there seems to be nobody in the white house _ seems to be nobody in the white house except this young woman with any sense _ house except this young woman with any sense of character, and a sense of what _ any sense of character, and a sense of what is _ any sense of character, and a sense of what is right and wrong, and as others _ of what is right and wrong, and as others have — of what is right and wrong, and as others have said, the courage of this young —

others have said, the courage of this young women and the light she sheds— this young women and the light she sheds on— this young women and the light she sheds on the state of the white house — sheds on the state of the white house is truly spine chilling. i can't — house is truly spine chilling. i can't help— house is truly spine chilling. i can't help thinking why on earth would _ can't help thinking why on earth would we — can't help thinking why on earth would we have been —— where on earth would _ would we have been —— where on earth would we _ would we have been —— where on earth would we have been —— where on earth would we have been —— where on earth would we have been if putin would have been— would we have been if putin would have been invading ukraine while donald _ have been invading ukraine while donald trump is still in the white house? _ donald trump is still in the white house? ., �* , donald trump is still in the white house? ., v ., donald trump is still in the white house? . �*, ., ., , house? that's a good point and maybe we will come — house? that's a good point and maybe we will come back— house? that's a good point and maybe we will come back to _ house? that's a good point and maybe we will come back to it _ house? that's a good point and maybe we will come back to it later _ house? that's a good point and maybe we will come back to it later in - house? that's a good point and maybe we will come back to it later in the - we will come back to it later in the programme. what about dereliction of duty? because one of the interesting parts of the evidence she gave today was be phone calls that were incoming while at the riot was under way at the capital. so one of them came from congressmanjim way at the capital. so one of them came from congressman jim jordan. way at the capital. so one of them came from congressmanjim jordan. he calls the phone, one of the films of mark meadows, she carries it down the corridor to the dining room where they are watching, he is watching what the president what is unfolding on the hill. she passes and the phone, and at the plane she passesin and the phone, and at the plane she passes in the function take back she can hear the crowd chanting "hang mike pence." this is the conversation that mark meadows had subsequent to that with white house counsel. i subsequent to that with white house counsel. , ., ,._ counsel. i remember pat saying something _

counsel. i remember pat saying something to — counsel. i remember pat saying something to the _ counsel. i remember pat saying something to the effect - counsel. i remember pat saying something to the effect of, - counsel. i remember pat saying l something to the effect of, mark, counsel. i remember pat saying - something to the effect of, mark, we need to do something more. they are literally calling for the vice president to be effing hana. and he had responded something to the effect of, you heard him, pat, he thinks mike deserves that, he doesn't think they are doing anything wrong. to which pat said something... this is effing crazy. we need to be doing something more. you heard him, the president doesn't think they are doing anything wrong. they were chanting that they were going to hang his vice president. amanda. ., . ., going to hang his vice president. amanda. ., . ~ ., _, ., amanda. the lack of courage, the lack of doing _ amanda. the lack of courage, the lack of doing something, - amanda. the lack of courage, the lack of doing something, to - amanda. the lack of courage, the lack of doing something, to think| lack of doing something, to think that you are the chief of staff outside the oval office, and you cannot do anything but sit and scroll on your phone and watch it. i mean, it's not simply that we have cassidy committee on the presence of our in that scene that has testified publicly, but it is quite parallel to what is happening on that very

day where you have a 25—year—old saying, "what are we going to do about this? hey, i think we should do something, i think it shouldn't be there." and you have senior level executives scrolling on the phone saying we cannot do anything about this. it is absolutely absurd. it is absolutely the exact opposite of what leadership is, and we are still seeing it right now, today, and who is speaking out and who is in speaking out, and that is the part that really stings for anyone watching it now because we all see that trump is looking to run in 2024, at the same place are sitting silently by, scrolling on their phone, watching from an arms distance. , ., . ., , distance. joe, there where clearly concerns attend the white house counsel and the run—up to the speech that he made onjanuary the run—up to the speech that he made on january the the run—up to the speech that he made onjanuary the 6th, basing an advanced copy of the speech and i had to take out language that was in there such as "fight for trump, fight for me." derogatory things about the vice president come they were also buried that the president

was intent on marching on the capital. have a listen to the evidence she gave about this desire to leave the mob to the hell. ——to leave the mob to the hill. he said something to the effect of "please make sure we don't go up to the capital, cassidy. keep in touch with me. we are going to get charged with me. we are going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happened." find make that movement happened." and do ou make that movement happened." and do you remember which _ make that movement happened." and do you remember which crimes _ make that movement happened." and do you remember which crimes he _ make that movement happened." and do you remember which crimes he was - you remember which crimes he was concerned _ you remember which crimes he was concerned with? in you remember which crimes he was concerned with?— you remember which crimes he was concerned with? in the days leading u . concerned with? in the days leading u- to the concerned with? in the days leading up to the sixth. _ concerned with? in the days leading up to the sixth, we _ concerned with? in the days leading up to the sixth, we had _ up to the sixth, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral count. when you listen to that, it reframes the speech that we heard from donald trump on that day because he had been warned by his legal counsel, he knew his supporters were armed, and yet he was still encouraging them to march on the capital.—

march on the capital. christian, as bad as the — march on the capital. christian, as bad as the mobs _ march on the capital. christian, as bad as the mobs and the - march on the capital. christian, as bad as the mobs and the violence | bad as the mobs and the violence was on january bad as the mobs and the violence was onjanuary six bad as the mobs and the violence was on january six 20 bad as the mobs and the violence was onjanuary six 20 can you imagine if the president of the united states walked up the steps of the capital building with a mob behind him? how could capital police possibly have fended that off? so thank goodness that didn't happen. absolutely. katz, among other areas at the white house, they legitimate true courageous public servants there that were trying to get the president to do the right thing, and the fact that they weren't and whether it was in his speech, the language, whether it was in the days or hours before hand or in the hours has january six was unfolding, all is evidence that the president knew what he was doing was wrong, was possibly illegal and he did it anyway by action and buy in action. and so i think that there are a few profiles of courage here, but the fact that all of this information, we didn't really know about it until today was a resident at the white house leading up to january six. it

gives so much more evidence now and so much more of an underpinning of the legal theory that there is real culpability here.— culpability here. that's interesting. _ culpability here. that's interesting. only - culpability here. that's| interesting. only spoke culpability here. that's i interesting. only spoke at culpability here. that's - interesting. only spoke at the beginning of this, you weren't altogether sure, beginning of this, you weren't altogethersure, but beginning of this, you weren't altogether sure, but what we are hearing today is actually the secret service detail in fact stop the president leading a coup, leading the march on the capital with armed supporters. that is essentially what she is saying. what about the evidence, but the witness tampering that liz cheney pointed to at the end of today's hearing, which is perhaps more explicit than all of the testimony about his character. this is what she said about the mafia style calls and messages from people close to trump telling potential witnesses to remain loyal. here is how one witness described phone calls from people interested in that witness's testimony.

here is another sample in a different context... a call received ljy different context... a call received by one of our witnesses. is that prospective witness tampering, joke is that its corrupt attack. is it a legal? the fact that president trump is out of office, so you attack. is it a legal? the fact that president trump is out of office, so you may have been limited in what he could or you may have been limited in what he coula ., u.

you may have been limited in what he coul. ., ., you may have been limited in what he coula ., u. ., ., you may have been limited in what he coula ., .., ., ., ., could or it could not do it for someone — could or it could not do it for someone or— could or it could not do it for someone or to _ could or it could not do it for someone or to someone, i could or it could not do it for| someone or to someone, but could or it could not do it for- someone or to someone, but it is certainly— someone or to someone, but it is certainly part of a horrendously corrupt — certainly part of a horrendously corrupt series of events in and around — corrupt series of events in and around the _ corrupt series of events in and around the events ofjanuary six. so it is certainly— around the events ofjanuary six. so it is certainly fair game, and good presentation strategy, congresswoman cheney _ presentation strategy, congresswoman cheney was excellent, that she teed it up at— cheney was excellent, that she teed it up at the — cheney was excellent, that she teed it up at the end, because now we are all interested in it, and it is going — all interested in it, and it is going to _ all interested in it, and it is going to be hard to follow what happened today, but i suspect there is more _ happened today, but i suspect there is more to— happened today, but i suspect there is more to come. there are more issues _ is more to come. there are more issues to— is more to come. there are more issues to he _ is more to come. there are more issues to be dropped here as we pull these various threads stop at our fellow_ these various threads stop at our fellow panelists have been tweeting in the _ fellow panelists have been tweeting in the last few minutes— in the last few minutes and this is what he says... _ in the last few minutes and this is what he says... this _ in the last few minutes and this is what he says... this relates - in the last few minutes and this is what he says... this relates to - in the last few minutes and this is | what he says... this relates to the evidence she's given about the security staff. he says... he doesn't think and he says in a subsequent determined that she

doesn't bash he doesn't think she is making it up because he knows her, and that is the point, she is a trump loyalist. she has worked with all of them. ., trump loyalist. she has worked with all of them-— all of them. right, and she was in the middle _ all of them. right, and she was in the middle of _ all of them. right, and she was in the middle of all _ all of them. right, and she was in the middle of all of _ all of them. right, and she was in the middle of all of it. _ she was there, taking notes, helping to make sure that people were in the right places. even from her own testimony, seems like they have a pretty pleasant style, somebody would want to work with, and the fact that it has been quiet where people have not been able to say but it's interesting about it now, how do you want history to remember you? how do you want this moment? do you want to be that person who she was trying to get to help and you didn't. there are a lot of questions here that are going to pop up, and i am in agreement with nick, i think we will see people come out, especially the way liz cheney ended that hearing, which is to say, here is what you got from trump. are you two going to be bullied? or are you going to tell your side of the stray? we are all listening, we are

all watching, and we are taking notes now about who is aware and who decided what would happen at those very key moments in america's history. very key moments in america's histo . . ., ., very key moments in america's histo .�* ., ., ,, , history. another of the witnesses that has spoken _ history. another of the witnesses that has spoken to _ history. another of the witnesses that has spoken to the _ history. another of the witnesses| that has spoken to the committee history. another of the witnesses i that has spoken to the committee is alex holder, subpoenaed hours if it is that he felt for a documentary series that will run in the summer, it's called unprecedented come in and it making it bad series can alex and it making it bad series can alex and his team sat for hours with donald trump and his senior staff before and afterjanuary six. here is a clip. 0k. beautiful. 0h. i don't think you want to have the water in the picture, right. you can take it out. yeah, put it over there, nick. this table as well. yeah, might as well take the table. looks good, very good, thank you.

you know what you can do, nick, put the table back, because it's missing something. put the table back and put the water on the table without the thing on top of it. ok, how does that look? go ahead, take it. yeah. all right. right. let's go. a then across every detail, i am pleased to say alex is with us. welcome to the programme. ijust wonder, before we get into the testimony that you have been asked to provide to the committee, what you need of what you heard today, does it shed any light on some of

the things that you found during the course of your documentary? i5 course of your documentary? is pretty extraordinary. i'm not particularly surprised by some of the things that were sad, but there were many— the things that were sad, but there were many bombshells that were dropped — were many bombshells that were dropped today for sure. at the end of the _ dropped today for sure. at the end of the day, — dropped today for sure. at the end of the day, it's absolutely clear that the — of the day, it's absolutely clear that the president of united states of america is responsible for the events— of america is responsible for the events that took place on january the 6th — events that took place on january the 6th. ~ ., ,., events that took place on january the 6th. ~ ., ., the 6th. were there, and he said to our the 6th. were there, and he said to your director— the 6th. were there, and he said to your director of— the 6th. were there, and he said to your director of photography - the 6th. were there, and he said to your director of photography the - your director of photography the night before that the inevitable and point to what had gone nine was the mob marching on the capital. why did you think that? 50. mob marching on the capital. why did you think that?— you think that? so, i was in a hotel with our director _ you think that? so, i was in a hotel with our director of _ you think that? so, i was in a hotel with our director of photography i you think that? so, i was in a hotell with our director of photography and i said _ with our director of photography and i said to _ with our director of photography and i said to him, you know he is going to get— i said to him, you know he is going to get everyone to march on the capital — to get everyone to march on the capital. and i think the reason for that but— capital. and i think the reason for that but having witnessed everything that but having witnessed everything that had _ that but having witnessed everything that had taken place over the course of the _ that had taken place over the course of the previous two weeks where you have got _ of the previous two weeks where you have got the president of states telling _ have got the president of states telling 75 million people that their vote didn't count, but also prior to that on— vote didn't count, but also prior to that on the — vote didn't count, but also prior to that on the campaign, witnessing the rhetoric— that on the campaign, witnessing the rhetoric and — that on the campaign, witnessing the rhetoric and the belligerence that a

lot of— rhetoric and the belligerence that a lot of what his three kids were saying — lot of what his three kids were saying and himself, it was an inevitable plaint, and obviously the sixth was— inevitable plaint, and obviously the sixth was the day the certification, and in _ sixth was the day the certification, and in trump's mind, he felt there was some — and in trump's mind, he felt there was some mechanism he could employ to interrupt _ was some mechanism he could employ to interrupt that process. so it sort _ to interrupt that process. so it sort of — to interrupt that process. so it sort of made sense, and we planned accordingly— sort of made sense, and we planned accordingly for that eventuality. so, accordingly for that eventuality. so. we — accordingly for that eventuality. so, we had a plan in terms of being able to— so, we had a plan in terms of being able to move equipment around so that michael would be able to go and found _ that michael would be able to go and found what was then going to unfold. it's interesting to talk about the belligerence of the children, because i know you did enter the got trump coming out event a trump told the committee that she believed the former attorney general when they said there was no evidence of voter fraud, did she say that in december when you interviewed her? h0. fraud, did she say that in december when you interviewed her?- when you interviewed her? no, she did not. when you interviewed her? no, she did not- she — when you interviewed her? no, she did not. she echoed i when you interviewed her? no, she did not. she echoed almost i did not. she echoed almost identically her father's position in that he _ identically her father's position in that he should explore every avenue, he should _ that he should explore every avenue, he should continue this fight and she was— he should continue this fight and she was talking about how the voters are upset _

she was talking about how the voters are upset that their vote isn't being — are upset that their vote isn't being counted, essentially, to be honest. _ being counted, essentially, to be honest. at— being counted, essentially, to be honest, at that time, i wasn't particularly surprised, because the three _ particularly surprised, because the three children have always been at least _ three children have always been at least in _ three children have always been at least in my— three children have always been at least in my interactions with them were _ least in my interactions with them were always echoing their father's position — were always echoing their father's position. so, you know, that wasn't particularly — position. so, you know, that wasn't particularly surprising, but now seeing — particularly surprising, but now seeing what she said to the committee, there is clearly a discrepancy in terms of what she said to _ discrepancy in terms of what she said to them i will leave it to others — said to them i will leave it to others to— said to them i will leave it to others to sort of determine whether they have _ others to sort of determine whether they have a — others to sort of determine whether they have a material effect.- they have a material effect. there is an inconsistency. i they have a material effect. there is an inconsistency. speaking i they have a material effect. there is an inconsistency. speaking to l they have a material effect. there l is an inconsistency. speaking to two different audiences, mcmanus is one of them, clearly the children where there to, as i say, she's told the committee that she was trying to talk him down, but you say the impression you got at the time was that she was telling him to fight. absolutely. that's literally what she said — absolutely. that's literally what she said to me. that she supported

his fight— she said to me. that she supported his fight with respect to the election, and that took place nine days after— election, and that took place nine days after the bill bar statement of the ist _ days after the bill bar statement of the ist of— days after the bill bar statement of the 1st of december to associated press. _ the 1st of december to associated press. so — the 1st of december to associated press, so clearly there was an inconsistency. i'm sure others will determine — inconsistency. i'm sure others will determine what that means. and how ou sat in determine what that means. and how you sat in the — determine what that means. and how you sat in the last i determine what that means. and how you sat in the last week i determine what that means. and how you sat in the last week or— determine what that means. and how you sat in the last week or so i determine what that means. and how you sat in the last week or so with i you sat in the last week or so with the committee to give your evidence. how did bash how long did you sit with them? what you think they were specifically interested in? i sat with them? what you think they were specifically interested in?— specifically interested in? i sat at them for two _ specifically interested in? i sat at them for two hours, i specifically interested in? i sat at them for two hours, they i specifically interested in? i sat at them for two hours, they were i them for two hours, they were interested in all of the material, they came — interested in all of the material, they came to the conclusion, as most people _ they came to the conclusion, as most people have, — they came to the conclusion, as most people have, that it was pretty... unprecedented that i had access to a sitting _ unprecedented that i had access to a sitting president of the united states— sitting president of the united states and the first family, and i think— states and the first family, and i think this — states and the first family, and i think this was a documentary material— think this was a documentary material at the very key moments throughout this extraordinary election— throughout this extraordinary election and the campaign, so any material— election and the campaign, so any material that we had, i'm sure, was useful— material that we had, i'm sure, was useful for— material that we had, i'm sure, was useful for them, material that we had, i'm sure, was usefulforthem, but in material that we had, i'm sure, was useful for them, but in terms of what _ useful for them, but in terms of what they— useful for them, but in terms of what they are specifically looking for, what they are specifically looking for. i _ what they are specifically looking for. i am — what they are specifically looking for, i am not privy to that. ijust

answered — for, i am not privy to that. ijust answered the collections. there are specific— answered the collections. there are specific and — answered the collections. there are specific and direct, and it was a fine conversation step but they are clearly _ fine conversation step but they are clearly parts of the founding things that you _ clearly parts of the founding things that you left on the cutting room floor— that you left on the cutting room floor that — that you left on the cutting room floor that are filling in the gaps for the committee. that is abundantly clear. there is a clip that you — abundantly clear. there is a clip that you have released in which the president— that you have released in which the president talks about the election and the _ president talks about the election and the voter fraud that he perceives in respect of the state of georgia _ perceives in respect of the state of georgia. let's have a listen to that — you can't have elections that are meaningless. you can have elections that if somebody controls the state of georgia, because, you know, we have a governor, the poor guy doesn't know what the hell is happening. he's lost control of the state. it's run by stacy abrams, and it's very sad to see it. and a secretary of state, this guy is like a hard—headed rock. he can't move, all i want to do is signature verification, signature verification and it's a total land. ——signature verification and it's a total win. they don't want to do it, and they are republicans. and what's their problem? they are stupid. 0k?

they're stupid people. i understand that the district attorney from georgia has got in touch with you today in relation of that clap, what you never have to give evidence in georgia? i that clap, what you never have to give evidence in georgia?- that clap, what you never have to give evidence in georgia? i seem to be collecting _ give evidence in georgia? i seem to be collecting subpoenas i give evidence in georgia? i seem to be collecting subpoenas at i give evidence in georgia? i seem to be collecting subpoenas at the i be collecting subpoenas at the moment— be collecting subpoenas at the moment in america. that was obviously— moment in america. that was obviously an extraordinary moment. this is— obviously an extraordinary moment. this is the _ obviously an extraordinary moment. this is the sitting president of the united _ this is the sitting president of the united states of america in the white _ united states of america in the white house. it's a diplomatic selection _ white house. it's a diplomatic selection room from the secret service — selection room from the secret service are outside, the man with the nuclear— service are outside, the man with the nuclear football is there. this man is— the nuclear football is there. this man is looking yummy began telling me that _ man is looking yummy began telling me that the election was stolen for five days— me that the election was stolen for five days after the attorney general said there _ five days after the attorney general said there was no electoral issues whatsoever. it was an extraordinary moment _ whatsoever. it was an extraordinary moment. he starts calling them stupid _ moment. he starts calling them stupid people, so i think that moment— stupid people, so i think that moment is a fascinating insight into what is _ moment is a fascinating insight into what is going on in his mind at this time, _ what is going on in his mind at this time, and you can also see how angry he was _ time, and you can also see how angry he was as— time, and you can also see how angry he was as well. you time, and you can also see how angry he was as well-— he was as well. you say you are collecting _ he was as well. you say you are collecting subpoenas, i

he was as well. you say you are collecting subpoenas, there i he was as well. you say you are collecting subpoenas, there is l collecting subpoenas, there is concern about the safety of witnesses, liz cheney talked about it again today in the presence of cassie hutchinson. it's extraordinary brave which he has donein extraordinary brave which he has done in the evidence that she has given. do you feel that you are threatened from the evidence that you have given? mr; threatened from the evidence that you have given?— you have given? my life changed about a week — you have given? my life changed about a week ago, i i you have given? my life changed about a week ago, i know- you have given? my life changed about a week ago, i know that l you have given? my life changed i about a week ago, i know that you really— about a week ago, i know that you really have — about a week ago, i know that you really have to connect two armed guards _ really have to connect two armed guards outside the studio not follow me around — guards outside the studio not follow me around everywhere. of course, apparently— me around everywhere. of course, apparently according some i'm an undercover— apparently according some i'm an undercover fbi agents, something i'm in mlti— undercover fbi agents, something i'm in mid spy— undercover fbi agents, something i'm in mi6 spy all sorts of conspiracies and threats coming through, so absolutely. but i think at the end of the _ absolutely. but i think at the end of the day, i will comply and do what _ of the day, i will comply and do what i — of the day, i will comply and do what i need to do to work with any subpoena — what i need to do to work with any subpoena or any thing that comes to mean _ subpoena or any thing that comes to mean a _ subpoena or any thing that comes to mean a lawful manner. i will do it and tell— mean a lawful manner. i will do it and tell the truth. i've got nothing to hide, _ and tell the truth. i've got nothing to hide, and that is it. i recorded history. — to hide, and that is it. i recorded history. and _ to hide, and that is it. i recorded history, and i will provide any committee or investigation with what they need _ committee or investigation with what they need for them to do their

investigation.— they need for them to do their investigation. let's bring in our -anel investigation. let's bring in our anel. i investigation. let's bring in our panel- i know— investigation. let's bring in our panel. i know you i investigation. let's bring in our panel. i know you have i investigation. let's bring in our panel. i know you have been i panel. i know you have been listening across this. it's very interesting, isn't it, that when you talk about that nick mulvaney to connect and testimony to put their side of the record, you have got people like alex who are failing in the gaps for the committee, eventually there must be a place here where the weight of evidence is such that people will come out of the woodwork to protect their own backs. ., ., ~ ,., the woodwork to protect their own backs. ., ., ~ , ., backs. you would think so, when you? and also as — backs. you would think so, when you? and also as others i backs. you would think so, when you? and also as others have i backs. you would think so, when you? and also as others have said, i and also as others have said, because there is an issue here about how they will go down in history, how they will go down in history, how will these people be remembered for how they behaved on that day? that thing that this leaves me with particularly as the sense that even a democracy as deep—rooted and long—lasting as america, which we all imagined was one of the beacons of democracy of the world, even that is in peril if people behave recklessly, irresponsibly, trump ——

trample over the rules and conventions at the top of the country like america. it's deeply worrying and a reminder to all of us that democracy is always fragile and has to be protected.— has to be protected. some people, joe. has to be protected. some people, joe, did has to be protected. some people, joe. did know _ has to be protected. some people, joe, did know the i has to be protected. some people, joe, did know the difference i has to be protected. some people, i joe, did know the difference between right and wrong, but there were some fairly senior lawyers who were prepared to side with the president. the fbi has been exercising search warrants in the last few days, not only for the lawyerjohn eastman, the architect of the false election scheme, but also jeffrey clark, scheme, but alsojeffrey clark, junior scheme, but also jeffrey clark, junior attorney scheme, but alsojeffrey clark, junior attorney in scheme, but also jeffrey clark, junior attorney in the scheme, but alsojeffrey clark, junior attorney in the department of justice who was prepared to take over as attorney general and tell georgia that the election was corrupt. get them when you're talking about fbi warrants for attorneys and the bar is set much higherfor attorneys and the bar is set much higher for attorneys, does that to you that the doj is now seriously looking at each criminal charges?

yes. christian, i have been sceptical, _ yes. christian, i have been sceptical, i_ yes. christian, i have been sceptical, i have _ yes. christian, i have been sceptical, i have said i yes. christian, i have been sceptical, i have said for. yes. christian, i have been sceptical, i have said for al yes. christian, i have been- sceptical, i have said for a while that what— sceptical, i have said for a while that what congress _ sceptical, i have said for a while that what congress is _ sceptical, i have said for a while that what congress is doing i sceptical, i have said for a while that what congress is doing is i that what congress is doing is effectively _ that what congress is doing is effectively a _ that what congress is doing is effectively a very— that what congress is doing is effectively a very delayed i effectively a very delayed impeachment _ effectively a very delayed impeachment trial, i effectively a very delayed impeachment trial, and l effectively a very delayed i impeachment trial, and hearing of the president. _ impeachment trial, and hearing of the president, and _ impeachment trial, and hearing of the president, and that i impeachment trial, and hearing of the president, and that it- the president, and that it was unlikely— the president, and that it was unlikely to _ the president, and that it was unlikely to go _ the president, and that it was unlikely to go criminal- the president, and that it was unlikely to go criminal at i the president, and that it was unlikely to go criminal at thel unlikely to go criminal at the justice — unlikely to go criminal at the justice department, i unlikely to go criminal at the justice department, my- unlikely to go criminal at thej justice department, my view unlikely to go criminal at the i justice department, my view has since _ justice department, my view has since changed _ justice department, my view has since changed in— justice department, my view has since changed in the _ justice department, my view has since changed in the last i justice department, my view has since changed in the last week. since changed in the last week with the subpoenas _ since changed in the last week with the subpoenas that _ since changed in the last week with the subpoenas that we'd i since changed in the last week with the subpoenas that we'd seem i since changed in the last week with the subpoenas that we'd seem to i the subpoenas that we'd seem to these _ the subpoenas that we'd seem to these various _ the subpoenas that we'd seem to these various fake _ the subpoenas that we'd seem to these various fake directors i the subpoenas that we'd seem to. these various fake directors across states _ these various fake directors across states to _ these various fake directors across states to your _ these various fake directors across states to your point. _ these various fake directors across states to your point. the i these various fake directors across states to your point. the weight i these various fake directors across| states to your point. the weight on jeffrey— states to your point. the weight on jeffrey clark's — states to your point. the weight on jeffrey clark's house, _ states to your point. the weight on jeffrey clark's house, the i jeffrey clark's house, the seizing ofjohn _ jeffrey clark's house, the seizing ofjohn eastman's _ jeffrey clark's house, the seizing ofjohn eastman's cell— jeffrey clark's house, the seizing ofjohn eastman's cell phone, i ofjohn eastman's cell phone, definitely— ofjohn eastman's cell phone, definitely ramping _ ofjohn eastman's cell phone, definitely ramping up, i ofjohn eastman's cell phone, definitely ramping up, they. ofjohn eastman's cell phone, i definitely ramping up, they are using _ definitely ramping up, they are using evidence _ definitely ramping up, they are using evidence from i definitely ramping up, they are i using evidence from the committee, and should _ using evidence from the committee, and should have _ using evidence from the committee, and should have evidence i using evidence from the committee, and should have evidence of- using evidence from the committee, and should have evidence of their. and should have evidence of their own being — and should have evidence of their own being obtained by— and should have evidence of their own being obtained by the i and should have evidence of their own being obtained by the fbi, i and should have evidence of their. own being obtained by the fbi, and this to _ own being obtained by the fbi, and this to mean — own being obtained by the fbi, and this to mean leads _ own being obtained by the fbi, and this to mean leads to _ own being obtained by the fbi, and this to mean leads to a _ own being obtained by the fbi, and this to mean leads to a much i own being obtained by the fbi, andl this to mean leads to a much higher likelihood than— this to mean leads to a much higher likelihood than i would've i this to mean leads to a much higher likelihood than i would've set i this to mean leads to a much higher likelihood than i would've set even. likelihood than i would've set even a week— likelihood than i would've set even a week ago. — likelihood than i would've set even a week ago. that _ likelihood than i would've set even a week ago, that what _ likelihood than i would've set even a week ago, that what they're i likelihood than i would've set even. a week ago, that what they're doing is building _ a week ago, that what they're doing is building a— a week ago, that what they're doing is building a criminal— a week ago, that what they're doing is building a criminal case i a week ago, that what they're doing is building a criminal case against i is building a criminal case against members — is building a criminal case against members of— is building a criminal case against members of the _ is building a criminal case against members of the white i is building a criminal case against members of the white house, i members of the white house, including — members of the white house, including and _ members of the white house, including and possibly i members of the white house, i including and possibly exclusive the president — including and possibly exclusive the president that— including and possibly exclusive the resident. ., , including and possibly exclusive the resident. . , president. that is the point, the ultimate decision i president. that is the point, the ultimate decision for i president. that is the point, the ultimate decision for the i president. that is the point, the i ultimate decision for the attorney general under severe pressure, whether former president can be

indicted. it whether former president can be indicted. , ~ whether former president can be indicted. , . ., whether former president can be indicted. , . . . ., indicted. it is. we are in uncharted territo . indicted. it is. we are in uncharted territory- i— indicted. it is. we are in uncharted territory. iwill— indicted. it is. we are in uncharted territory. i will say, i indicted. it is. we are in uncharted territory. i will say, though, i indicted. it is. we are in uncharted territory. i will say, though, this. territory. iwill say, though, this committee is doing a really good job of laying out a timeline, laying out a story getting very clear facts on what happened that day. that will help in the case, and i think it's also making it impossible for the justice department to do nothing. part of the real spark to it all is having a kind of hearings we are having a kind of hearings we are having with real folks in the room talking about the story that's what's happening both from hearts and minds, but also details of things that were illegal, the documents, the pressuring, a lot of these different allies that while this is not a criminal case, they are teaching it up to say take a look here. and i think some of that was a lessons learned of earlier impeachment trials, of earlier investigations that were done. they are doing it in a distinct way this time so that thejustice department can pull up from there and do what they need to do as well. meat.

can pull up from there and do what they need to do as well.— they need to do as well. alex a final word _ they need to do as well. alex a final word to i they need to do as well. alex a final word to you, i they need to do as well. alex a final word to you, doesn't i they need to do as well. alex a | final word to you, doesn't really matter whether the president believe the election had been stolen or not, specific to certain crimes that he could face, but did you always get the impression when you sat with him that he did believe that the election had been stolen from him? i mean, donald trump... i think he is a reasonable — mean, donald trump... i think he is a reasonable person, he acted to me as somebody who is delusional. at the end _ as somebody who is delusional. at the end of— as somebody who is delusional. at the end of the day, this lie was created — the end of the day, this lie was created by— the end of the day, this lie was created by him way before the 2020 election _ created by him way before the 2020 election. he was talking about how if... election. he was talking about how ifm you _ election. he was talking about how if... you would on the except the results _ if... you would on the except the results if — if... you would on the except the results if he _ if... you would on the except the results if he wins. this is something he had created for a very lon- something he had created for a very longtime _ something he had created for a very long time all the way through his four years — long time all the way through his four years of presidency and then the beginning of the 2020 election campaign. it wasn't sort of surprising, what i found was that he genuinely— surprising, what i found was that he genuinely does believe in his own life. genuinely does believe in his own life that's— genuinely does believe in his own life. that's terrifying. the commander—in—chief is... the person in charge _ commander—in—chief is... the person in charge of— commander—in—chief is... the person in charge of america believes in something that's completely untrue. and then _ something that's completely untrue. and then we saw the effects of that

onjanuary— and then we saw the effects of that onjanuary the 6th. i believe for a lon- onjanuary the 6th. i believe for a longtime — on january the 6th. i believe for a long time-— on january the 6th. i believe for a long time. indeed so. gratefulfor our long time. indeed so. gratefulfor your company- — long time. indeed so. gratefulfor your company. thank i long time. indeed so. gratefulfor your company. thank you. i sad breaking news in the last hour here in the uk. the cancer campaigner dame deborahjean has died at the age of 40. she had been receiving end—of—life care at home and has raised millions to help others affected by cancer. mr; and has raised millions to help others affected by cancer. my name is deborah james. i i others affected by cancer. my name is deborah james. i am i others affected by cancer. my name is deborah james. i am a i others affected by cancer. my name is deborah james. i am a mum i others affected by cancer. my name is deborah james. i am a mum to l others affected by cancer. my name l is deborah james. i am a mum to two is deborahjames. i am a mum to two kids under dog called winston. three years ago, at the age of 35, i was diagnosed with stage four cancer and i have been living with cancer ever since. ,, . , i have been living with cancer ever since. ,, ., , , ., ,, ., , since. she was young. she was vibrant with i since. she was young. she was vibrant with an i vibrant with an infectious sense of fun. for deborahjames cancer was a devastating blow but she was

determined to share her story in the hope that it could help others. i have had everything. surgery, chemotherapy, radiotherapy to enable me to live with cancer. bind chemotherapy, radiotherapy to enable me to live with cancer.— me to live with cancer. and social media the — me to live with cancer. and social media the former i me to live with cancer. and social media the former teacher i me to live with cancer. and social media the former teacher called i media the former teacher called herself bowel babe, detailing the endless rounds of treatment but post poking fun at her disease. having fun with her kids. i poking fun at her disease. having fun with her kids.— poking fun at her disease. having fun with her kids. i made my 40th birthda . fun with her kids. i made my 40th birthday- that _ fun with her kids. i made my 40th birthday. that is i fun with her kids. i made my 40th birthday. that is huge, i fun with her kids. i made my 40th birthday. that is huge, that i fun with her kids. i made my 40th birthday. that is huge, that is i birthday. that is huge, that is enormous, i never thoughti birthday. that is huge, that is enormous, i never thought i would make it. fin enormous, i never thought i would make it. , enormous, i never thought i would makeit. , ., enormous, i never thought i would makeit. ,. make it. on her podcast deborah was 0 en. make it. on her podcast deborah was oen. , make it. on her podcast deborah was open- . funny- _ make it. on her podcast deborah was open- .funny- i— make it. on her podcast deborah was open. , funny. lam— make it. on her podcast deborah was open. , funny. i am back— make it. on her podcast deborah was open. , funny. i am back on i open. , funny. i am back on treatment—

open. , funny. i am back on treatment and i open. , funny. i am back on treatment and every i open. , funny. i am back on treatment and every single | open. , funny. i am back on i treatment and every single time i am back on treatment i am like i don't want to be here. i don't want to be back on treatment. but want to be here. i don't want to be back on treatment.— back on treatment. but never tried to hide. back on treatment. but never tried to hide- in — back on treatment. but never tried to hide- in a _ back on treatment. but never tried to hide. in a final— back on treatment. but never tried to hide. in a final interview, i back on treatment. but never tried to hide. in a final interview, she i to hide. in a final interview, she have new treatments would soon be found. ., . have new treatments would soon be found. . . , ., , ., found. cancer should become a chronic disease. i— found. cancer should become a chronic disease. i hope it i found. cancer should become a chronic disease. i hope it will i found. cancer should become a| chronic disease. i hope it will be found. cancer should become a i chronic disease. i hope it will be a kids lifetime. but, you know, i think there are people doing amazing things and we need to support them and fund them. the things and we need to support them and fund them.— and fund them. the fund she set up to aid research i and fund them. the fund she set up to aid research has i and fund them. the fund she set up to aid research has made i and fund them. the fund she set up to aid research has made millions. l to aid research has made millions. for years she fought to increase awareness of her disease. with social media posts like these inspiring thousands of fellow patients. in the words of one cancer charity, the lives campaign saved

and will continue to save was nothing short of incredible. an extraordinary woman. so brave, so inspirational. huge news from the nato summit this evening. the turkish president has approved the accession of finland and sweden. for weeks, the tax had been threatening a veto over the membership. it was sweden's support for the kurdish people uk but it seems night they set aside those differences with all sides signing up differences with all sides signing up to a joint memorandum to address concerns. let's cross to madrid and speak to mark who has them watching events for us. a big moment and it hugely expands nato's capabilities

in eastern europe. what is in this memorandum that they have signed? it contains three things that they have agreed on, in effect, that there will be further amendments to sweden and finland's domestic legislation. that will be a reference to both countries agreeing to clamp down on what turkey sees as terrorist in finland and sweden. critics of turkey would say are simply opposition activists and kurdish journalist but clearly there has been some agreement and middle ground found on that. cracking down specifically on the plea kk, the band kurdish militant group classified as a terrorist organisation, entering into an agreement on extradition. i asked the naco secretary—general and they're now been told they could be extradited back to turkey where they would probably face life sentences in prison. he said his answer to me

was that extradition will take place within legal frameworks and be worked out by different sides. i think we have got that clip. let me display the question you asked him and hear his answer in full. there has been an _ and hear his answer in full. there has been an agreement i and hear his answer in full. there has been an agreement with i and hear his answer in full. there has been an agreement with turkey on extradition _ has been an agreement with turkey on extradition signed with sweden and finland _ extradition signed with sweden and finland. what does that mean for the kurdish— finland. what does that mean for the kurdishjournalist and finland. what does that mean for the kurdish journalist and kurdish opposition figures in sweden and finland _ opposition figures in sweden and finland who will be very worried by the news _ finland who will be very worried by the news and second of all, we have a situation _ the news and second of all, we have a situation in — the news and second of all, we have a situation in which we have a nato member, _ a situation in which we have a nato member, the military member, turkey, which _ member, the military member, turkey, which missile _ member, the military member, turkey, which missile defence system a few years _ which missile defence system a few years ago— which missile defence system a few years ago from russia now turkey has been able _ years ago from russia now turkey has been able to— years ago from russia now turkey has been able to dictate the future membership of finland and to nato. is membership of finland and to nato. is that _ membership of finland and to nato. is that the _ membership of finland and to nato. is that the sign of a functional alliance? _ is that the sign of a functional alliance? , ., ., ., alliance? first of all, the “oint memorandum, i alliance? first of all, the “oint memorandum, it i alliance? first of all, the “oint memorandum, it will i alliance? first of all, the “oint memorandum, it will be h alliance? first of all, the joint - memorandum, it will be published very soon. i think it will be on our

home page. very soon. to very soon. i think it will be on our home page. very soon.— home page. very soon. to have further concerns _ home page. very soon. to have further concerns about - home page. very soon. to have further concerns about that? i home page. very soon. to have - further concerns about that? clearly did not give a very fulsome answer that but will they be journalists and activists in sweden who are worried? ., ., ,., and activists in sweden who are worried? ., ., ' :: :: :: :: :: worried? there are about 100,000 kurds living in _ worried? there are about 100,000 kurds living in sweden _ worried? there are about 100,000 kurds living in sweden and, - worried? there are about 100,000 kurds living in sweden and, you . kurds living in sweden and, you know, many of them will say they are being branded as terrorists by a country, by president who band is around the word terrorism quite frequently to the stand that turkey has jailed a0 journalist, classifying them as terrorist. it is a very big jailer of opposition activists after the failed coup of 2016 that as terrorist so this is en route to pauline and i think that what will probably happen as this will be kicked into the long grass and there will be an extradition process which will take a long time, enough to placate turkey finland and sweden are playing ball on this. a

lot of pressure to give ground on this. finland and sweden are big, important military powers. importantly, importa ntly, they will importantly, they will reassure the baltic states, estonia, latvia, feeling very vulnerable at the moment on the cross hairs of russia's invasion of ukraine, they want these countries to be members of nato. president putin has achieved quite the opposite of what he wanted. he wanted to stop nato expansion and he's got two new members and the doubling of the border between nato and russia. the? border between nato and russia. they call him the art — border between nato and russia. they call him the art strategist. thank you very much indeed for that. so what we have is a huge dollop of realpolitik here. we all know there was nothing going to get on the way of this accession. turkey has extracted what they needed to extract. . . extracted what they needed to extract. , , ., ., , , extract. yes. first of all, this is a big strategic— extract. yes. first of all, this is a big strategic moment - extract. yes. first of all, this is

a big strategic moment for - extract. yes. first of all, this is l a big strategic moment for nato. sweden has been neutralfor 200 years. finland has a proud tradition also of neutrality between the great powers. i put in a stunning ukraine has persuaded both countries to throw in their lot with nato and thatis throw in their lot with nato and that is a long—term big shift in the european security balance. it is absolutely against russia's interest but a consequence of what putin has done and i always thought there would be an accommodation because the swedish finnish such an important long—term strategic move that, in the end, i don't think turkey would have been in a position to block it for very long. nato is an organisation that works with consensus so you don't need to have every country on site before you can accept a new member that think what we have got here is a diplomatic compromise, she said, these extraditions will be subject to swedish and finnish legal process. the courts there will have to be satisfied it has to be met until

this will take a long time. it is an enormously _ this will take a long time. it is an enormously historic _ this will take a long time. it is an enormously historic moment. - this will take a long time. it is an enormously historic moment. it. this will take a long time. it is an | enormously historic moment. it is notjust enormously historic moment. it is not just the accession enormously historic moment. it is notjust the accession of sweden and finland, it is the so—called strategic concept which is second only really to the treaty itself. this is what directs nato. it sets out the strategy. it redirects nato towards the thread that they proceed from russia and china and it ramps up from russia and china and it ramps up significantly the number of standing forces that we will have in eastern europe.— eastern europe. yes. and in this nato doctrine _ eastern europe. yes. and in this nato doctrine for— eastern europe. yes. and in this nato doctrine for the _ eastern europe. yes. and in this nato doctrine for the last - eastern europe. yes. and in this nato doctrine for the last 20 - eastern europe. yes. and in this l nato doctrine for the last 20 years nato doctrine for the last 20 years nato was very focused on expeditionary operations in afghanistan and it was very involved across the balkans and in libya. now what putin has done is brought nato back to its basic purpose. it was initially founded for. is about territorial defence of its member states in europe and instead of having a defence doctrine where we kept relative divide forces in eastern borders and if there were

some sort of russian attack than they would be reinforced, nato might have to win back territory that russia had occupied, now it is going larger forces who russia had occupied, now it is going largerforces who are russia had occupied, now it is going larger forces who are going to be forward all the time, going to be based forward and even more forces at high readiness back on home countries, high readiness means short notice to move out of barracks. it means you need more troops because they have got to be training, they have got to have time to read as well. more equipment, better transport, better logistics. it is a very extensive reorganisation of the armies and in the case of the uk the british army has been the cinderella of investment in the last decade or mostly gone to the navy for these aircraft characters and now it needs new equipment, needs to be larger so that it can keep more troops on high readiness and forward deployed in eastern europe.— readiness and forward deployed in eastern europe. implications us and america, eastern europe. implications us and america. too. _ eastern europe. implications us and america, too, amanda. _ eastern europe. implications us and america, too, amanda. joe - eastern europe. implications us and america, too, amanda. joe biden . america, too, amanda. joe biden announced today sending to

additional destroyers which brings the total number of us destroyers there to sex. and suddenly, america's posture shifting back towards europe. back towards the heart of european defence which i guess will reassure might unsettle some in europe, too, particularly given what peter was saying earlier in the programme about what might happen two years down the line of donald trump comes back to power. i think everybody is worried about donald trump coming back to power, more so today after the hearing. but it is interesting that this conversation is not getting as much coverage as it was at the very beginning. and what that tells me is that both sides of the aisle recognise what an important role biden is playing in the larger world conversation what is happening in nato. i think that is actually an indication that people are trusting what america is doing right now. also worried what could happen in

the future but no doubt that biden gets high marks for that and that is why you're not hearing much about it. today, while a chaotic day in the states, quite remarkable with what is happening around the world. the lines much stronger than it was certainly six months ago. the chief of the general staff was warning that britain faces in 19 seven moment. there is reporting today that the defence secretary ben wallace has made the case within government for defence cuts to be reversed and though he did not spell out what level of spending will be required he was quite clear that circumstances have changed. you might have always said that as a threat to change so much that the funding. if government responded anytime the nhs as a winter crisis so must they when the threat to the very security that underpins our way of life increases. sometimes it is not about what dividends you can take out but about investment in people and equipment you can put in. for too long, defence lives on a

diet of smoke and mirrors, fancy efficiency savings. in the last few years the threat has started to increase. and right now, russia is the most direct and pressing threat to europe, to our allies and to these shores. peter, let me put on screen what the chief of the defence staff told us today because i think it will frame our discussion. historically that russia often starts was badly... worship is that conventional capability will be reduced for a time at least. putin has declared intent to restore the lines of historic russia makes any respite temporary and that that will become more acute. that is why think he is

talking about this 1937 moment. you agree with the case that he sets out? . agree with the case that he sets out? , ., �* ., , out? yes, i do. i'm not sure that rhetoric about _ out? yes, i do. i'm not sure that rhetoric about 1937 _ out? yes, i do. i'm not sure that rhetoric about 1937 is _ out? yes, i do. i'm not sure that rhetoric about 1937 is all - out? yes, i do. i'm not sure that rhetoric about 1937 is all that - rhetoric about 1937 is all that helpful. it makes people worried that we are facing a world war, which i don't think we are. it is making the case to invest now so as to be strong and to deter future that might be worse. i think that is true. and i think is fundamental point about the armed forces is right. what putin has done has changed european security durably. things are not going to go back under any circumstances to how they were in february before the invasion. if there is a stalemate, if there is a pause, that will be seen by the russians as an opportunity to prepare for having another go, for pushing again in ukraine, moldova, who knows. even possibly against nato territory so it is right that we need to recalibrate a whole defence doctrine away from dreams about being an indo pacific nation dispatching aircraft carriers around the world. that has a role, but the central role is to

be strong enough in europe to be able to confront this approach to warfare that putin has very things that actually, he can outlast the west. you can take punishment in russia, west will get tired, other issues were crowding, energy prices and so on will lead to fatigue in the western supporting ukraine and in the end russia can still, it was some kind of a traditional victory over these destroyed parts of ukraine. we must not allow that to happen is i think it is right that we should now be looking at upping our defence spending in the long term despite everything else. that ma ut term despite everything else. that may put that _ term despite everything else. that may put that in — term despite everything else. that may put that in the _ term despite everything else. that may put that in the context because troop numbers are currently headed to 72 and a half thousand down from 82,000. we had on monday the army's capability was well below what it be for a nation of our standing. we don't even have an armoured division

that we can put in eastern europe and we have four armoured divisions during the cold war by pauljohnson of the institute for fiscal studies published a graph today. and you talk about investment, that is the decision that notjust the uk government but all governments across europe are now facing the cost defence spending has given way to welfare state spending, to health, where are these governments going to get the money from to invest, to invest the the chief of the defence staff is calling for? to the defence staff is calling for? “in put a question the other way round, what is the cost of not doing enough now, it has already been immensely extensive to help ukraine defend itself but if there was an attack on nato territory, the cost of that

would go through the roofs of the question always is, is about to spend more money now in order to avoid worse data. with energy prices where they are, with the looming food crisis, with the cost of living concerns across western countries this is a really bad time but britain is one of the few countries that are spending 2% of gdp and it isjust about that are spending 2% of gdp and it is just about that. similar countries are well below that. germany is now trying to catch up but to have percent of gdp on defence, i expect will be the kind of benchmark of their going be able to deter russia from this kind of reckless behaviour that they have been indulging in. that is a fundamental decision that politicians have said today that is the price of feed him and praise has to be paid unless you want to face worse later. that is the 1937 analogy. worse later. that is the 1937 analo: . , worse later. that is the 1937 analo: . ., ~ worse later. that is the 1937 analo . ., ~ analogy. boris johnson talking about increasin: analogy. boris johnson talking about increasing defence _ analogy. boris johnson talking about increasing defence spending - analogy. boris johnson talking about increasing defence spending he - analogy. boris johnson talking about increasing defence spending he had| increasing defence spending he had to turn have peter said, maybe that is the direction of travel. to turn have peter said, maybe that is the direction of travel. ghislaine maxwell has been sentenced to 20 years in prison for luring teenage girls into the orbit of the financier and paedophilejeffrey epstein. in a prepared statement to the court, the prosecution said maxwells behaviour had been shockingly predatory. "she was a calculating, sophisticated, dangerous criminal, they said, who preyed on vulnerable young girls and had groomed them for sexual abuse." today, she apologised

to her victims in court, and hopes her sentence will allow them "peace and finality", adding that meeting jeffrey epstein was the greatest regret of her life. let's go to new york nomia iqbal is outside the court for us. the prosecution wants to between 30 and 50 years and in the end she still got a fairly stiff sentence but less than that. i was judge not convinced that she deserve the maximum sentence? it is interesting because officials _ maximum sentence? it is interesting because officials wanted, _ maximum sentence? it is interesting because officials wanted, well, - maximum sentence? it is interesting because officials wanted, well, they | because officials wanted, well, they recommended at least 20 years and then you've got prosecutors said they wanted up to 55 years. but i spoke to some of the accusers of jeffrey epstein and ghislaine maxwell suggested put that in context, the trial itself involve the testimony for women and scores of women have come out to accuse them of this sexual abuse and the judge to take into account their testimonies in terms of impact

statements. i spoke to two women who addressed the court and that i put to them if they were happy with the 20 years, they thought was enough, they said they were. they said it was, they were surprised that it even to this point in the end that they finally saw some sense of justice. annie farmer was one of the four women who the trial revolved around was the only one who gave her actual name. the other side a pseudonym. the lawyer also said when i put that to them, was 20 what they wanted they said yes. yes, that was sufficient. ghislaine maxwell could be released after 15 years with five years under supervision. she and her lawyers are going to appeal the sentence. they have got 15 days to do so. something that the victims, the accusers did say to me was they were not shock she did not apologise in her statement. that was something thejudge also commented in her statement. that was something the judge also commented upon when

passing down sentencing. now it's time for the panel. a shorter time for the panel because we have a lot of news to get through the course of the programme but we'll give it over to peter because peter has been watching the bromance, the bromance, the rapprochement between borisjohnson and emmanuel michael. —— macron. sharp sighted viewers may have seen a photograph of them with their arms around each other at the g7 summit in bavaria. of course, it is great they should be getting on ballot than trading insults about sausages from northern ireland which is how

they passed the g7 summit in cornwall but, as an old diplomat, i worry when i see leaders putting their arms around each other. it is usually a bad sign and it usually means they have got something to hide and i think that the hard choice here is that actually, emmanuel macron still does not trust borisjohnson. there still a deep disagreement between them about europe and a lack of confidence and trust so i think the bromance is for the cameras and to show that they are together on ukraine and where it comes to doing some serious deal in uk french relations, perhaps at the summit, i don't think i would be papping summit, i don't think i would be popping the champagne corks just yet. popping the champagne corks 'ust et. ., , . , popping the champagne corks 'ust et. ., , ., yet. know, is what peter is saying. amanda, yet. know, is what peter is saying. amanda. talk— yet. know, is what peter is saying. amanda, talk to _ yet. know, is what peter is saying. amanda, talk to me _ yet. know, is what peter is saying. amanda, talk to me about - amanda, talk to me about biodegradable plastic. first, that we 'ust biodegradable plastic. first, that we just weigh — biodegradable plastic. first, that we just weigh in _ biodegradable plastic. first, that we just weigh in on _ biodegradable plastic. first, that we just weigh in on the - biodegradable plastic. first, that we just weigh in on the extra - biodegradable plastic. first, that| we just weigh in on the extra love that we _ we just weigh in on the extra love that we see. i think it is good that we're _ that we see. i think it is good that we're finally seeing people come together— we're finally seeing people come together and maybe just maybe, the fact we _ together and maybe just maybe, the fact we have been away from each other, _ fact we have been away from each other, the — fact we have been away from each other, the end person,... you like tactile politics. _ other, the end person,... you like tactile politics. 0k. i've _ other, the end person,... you like tactile politics. 0k. i've got- other, the end person,... you like tactile politics. 0k. i've got a - tactile politics. 0k. i've got a minute and a half. can you do biodegradable plastic in a minute

and a half? mi biodegradable plastic in a minute and a half? �* biodegradable plastic in a minute and a half?— biodegradable plastic in a minute andahalf?�* , . and a half? all i can say is fencing off of not having _ and a half? all i can say is fencing off of not having plastic— and a half? all i can say is fencing off of not having plastic surround l off of not having plastic surround fruit and — off of not having plastic surround fruit and vegetables is a pretty good _ fruit and vegetables is a pretty good way to go in the future and i'm excited _ good way to go in the future and i'm excited for— good way to go in the future and i'm excited for it.— excited for it. know you have left b with a minute. _ excited for it. know you have left b with a minute. you _ excited for it. know you have left b with a minute. you have _ excited for it. know you have left b with a minute. you have to - excited for it. know you have left b with a minute. you have to give - excited for it. know you have left b | with a minute. you have to give me something more. why are we talking about it? . ., something more. why are we talking about it? , ., ., ., , , ., about it? instead of wrapping our fruit and vegetables _ about it? instead of wrapping our fruit and vegetables in _ about it? instead of wrapping our fruit and vegetables in plastic, i fruit and vegetables in plastic, where — fruit and vegetables in plastic, where terms the environment, the ideas _ where terms the environment, the ideas you — where terms the environment, the ideas you can now spray on, and fruit— ideas you can now spray on, and fruit and — ideas you can now spray on, and fruit and vegetables and then wash it off and _ fruit and vegetables and then wash it off and eat it and it is better for the — it off and eat it and it is better for the environment, it off and eat it and it is better forthe environment, it it off and eat it and it is better for the environment, it is better for the environment, it is better for everyone. for the environment, it is better for everyone-— for the environment, it is better for eve one. ~ ., i. , for everyone. where have you seen this? this is _ for everyone. where have you seen this? this is what _ for everyone. where have you seen this? this is what they're _ for everyone. where have you seen this? this is what they're doing - for everyone. where have you seen this? this is what they're doing in l this? this is what they're doing in america? you spray it on? scientific american. america? you spray it on? scientific american- you _ america? you spray it on? scientific american. you can _ america? you spray it on? scientific american. you can spread. - america? you spray it on? scientific american. you can spread. there i america? you spray it on? scientific american. you can spread. there is| america? you spray it on? scientificl american. you can spread. there is a spray— american. you can spread. there is a spray they— american. you can spread. there is a spray they have actually studied that is— spray they have actually studied that is better than the plastic surround _ that is better than the plastic surround fruit and vegetables. it has all— surround fruit and vegetables. it has all kinds of different benefits to it _ has all kinds of different benefits to it so — has all kinds of different benefits to it. so there you go. is has all kinds of different benefits to it. so there you go.— to it. so there you go. is that america _ to it. so there you go. is that america is — to it. so there you go. is that america is going _ to it. so there you go. is that america is going backwards? | to it. so there you go. is that| america is going backwards? i to it. so there you go. is that - america is going backwards? i don't believe it, not for a minute. thank you very much indeed. lovely to have your company as well for us evening. we will be about the same time

tomorrow. thank you very much for watching. good night. hello again. we have had some contrasting mother for tuesday. outbreaks of rain. heavy rain in western scotland where it turned murky for a time. contrast that with the sunshine we had across central and eastern england and in the sunshine it certainly felt summery enough with temperatures into the low 20s but not as warm as the weather we have across central and

eastern europe at the minute where we have a heat wave. temperatures into the mid a0s across parts of italy. the reason we've got high temperatures here are down into this ridge in thejet temperatures here are down into this ridge in the jet stream. what that which does is help build those temperatures, for sure, but also slows down the whole atmosphere from progressing so there's not much movement at the moment and with a 12 set over the british isles we get to endure an area of low pressure that has been with us today and will be with us to the west of this week, bringing rain or showers in the forecast every day. it is one of those kind of forecast. start off on wednesday morning with a band of rain across the scotland and eastern

areas of england, clearing quickly and once that has gone it is a day of sunshine and showers. heavy showers and thunderstorms for scotland and some slow—moving storm is lining up across parts of south—west england so some areas here that see shower after shower after probably not many showers for east anglia and that is where we will see some of the highest temperatures into the low 20s. there will be very not working out from the south to have eight parts of eastern england. uncertainty about the extent of that but it should be well out of the way as we head into the first part of thursday morning and a relatively mild night, might start to thursday as well with temperatures widely into double figures. thursday is another day of sunshine and showers. what you will notice over the next few days as the weather is becoming quite late and so, weather showers from, they're going to be pretty widespread, they will be slow—moving in nature, turning heavy with some hail and thunder, might even get some flash

flooding with heavy downpours as well stop temperatures similar to what we have seen over recent days. eighteens, low 20s on the one that spots further east. friday's forecast, the same area of low pressure still with us and providing showers. the majority of showers of the across western areas. probably drier again across south—east england and east anglia but even here there could be the odd passing shower as we head into the afternoon. temperatures in the low 20s across eastern areas and into the high teens further west. they are going to start to see changes in the weather picture as we head weekend does not look too promising initially on saturday. on the time we get sunday average of high pressure building in from the west and that was 10% of the weather down. saturday, showers left over. maybe a few for northern ireland. dry further south but by the time we get to sunday, is that which builds on most of us will have financial conditions. into next week we get more of a ridge building in off the atlantic and that will help build an area of high pressure and so our weather fortunes will change, not only will it become dry for the majority of the country but increasingly it will become a good feel warmer as well with temperatures at these going into the mid 20s. there is an outside chance of temperatures hitting the high 20s across eastern areas as well but some intensity about that detail. settles down next week. that's the latest.