hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. a deal in madrid — nato extends a formal invition to finland and sweden tojoin the alliance. ukraine can count on us for as long as it takes. the nato chiefs send a strong message of support to ukraine. president zelensky tells them the war with russia will cost $5 billion a month. r&b singer r kelly has been sentenced to 30 years in prison for masterminding an elaborate scheme to entice and sexually exploit young aspiring singers and underage children. tonight with the context, from

brussels, ukrainian security analyst hanna shelest and from virginia, ian brzezinski, a former us deputy assistant secretary of defense for europe and nato. hello, welcome to the programme. the nato summit in madrid will go down as a major turning point. today, the alliance extended a formal invitation to finland and sweden that when ratified will extend nato�*s border with russia by more than 800 miles. alongside that, the alliance has outlined its new strategic vision, which puts a more muscularfocus on the defence of nato�*s eastern flank. the high—readiness forces will be expanding seven—fold to more than 300,000 troops. president biden has announced there will be a new permanent us base in poland, the first time the americans have had a standing force so close to russia's border, and he will also send two additional american destroyers to join the european fleet.

we're going to approve a new nato strategic concept and reaffirm the unity and determination of our alliance to defend every inch of nato territory. and article sis sacrosanct, and we mean it when we say an attack against one is an attack against all, every inch. how things have changed in the 25 years since nato last held a summit in madrid. the countries that were invited to join in 1997 were the three former warsaw pact countries, the czech republic, hungary and poland. but also that year nato signed an agreement that would establish a nato—russia council. europe was looking for a rapprochement with the kremlin. that is now ancient history. the nato secretary general reaffirmned today that russia is europe's biggest threat. nato leaders have just taken decisions to transform and strengthen our alliance at this pivotal time for our security. president putin's war against ukraine has shattered peace in europe and has created

the biggest security crisis in europe since the second world war. nato has responded with strength and unity. but while russia's invasion of ukraine has given nato leaders a new adversary, new found purpose, it is far from clear the alliance can help ukraine turn the tide in the east. the ukrainian president welcomes the solidarity reaffirmed in madrid this week, but it will take more than bold rhetoric. translation: financial support for ukraine is no less important | than aid with weapons. russia still receives billions every day and spends it on war. - we have a multibillion—dollar deficit — we don't have oil. and gas to cover it. we need about $5 billion a month. you know that. you are a former under—secretary of

state for nato for defence. how would you define what has happened in madrid these past few days? this is one of the — in madrid these past few days? ti 3 is one of the most important post—cold war summits for the alliance that is because of the context. it is occurring in the midst of the war, invasion of ukraine by russia, a nuclear state. and so that is significant. and what you had was a summit that is pushing itself closer towards akin to what we saw in the cold war. if you pointed out, nato leaders condemned russia's invasion and accused russia of war crimes and express unwavering support for ukraine's territorial integrity and defined russia as the most significant and direct threat to security in the north atlantic area. in light of that, they announced plans to reinforce the eastern frontier and you pointed out they are going to increase the size of the nato response force. the

front force so to speak from 40,000 up front force so to speak from 40,000 up to 300,000 personnel and that is significant. this is an important summit and to cap it off, they move forward with a process to include sweden and finland among the membership of nato. that's going to dramatically change the geo— political landscape in military landscape of northern and central europe. in landscape of northern and central euro e. . ., ., landscape of northern and central euroe. . ., ., ,, ., europe. in that nato - russia founding _ europe. in that nato - russia founding that _ europe. in that nato - russia founding that i've _ europe. in that nato - russia founding that i've described l europe. in that nato - russia| founding that i've described in europe. in that nato - russia - founding that i've described in 97, the alliance promise not to permanently station troops on the russian border. is that redundant now because many people have concerns that the two sides, the two superpowers, ourface—to—face on concerns that the two sides, the two superpowers, our face—to—face on a very precarious border? that foundin: very precarious border? that founding act _ very precarious border? that founding act on _ very precarious border? that founding act on which - very precarious border? twat founding act on which there was be a premise there will be a genuine effort toward partnership between the alliance and russia. and it was premised on the promise that russia would abide by international law.

russia has violated the nato — russia has violated the nato — russia founding act and essentially through his own actions tossed into irrelevance. so the alliance is now moving forward, but you can even make the argument that the deployments alliance is talking about are still consistent with the nato russia founding act because we are still talking about only marginal increases in alliance force posture, western european and american force posture on the eastern frontier. not talking about divisions. this is still essentially a tripwire defence that the alliance is positioning itself for.— is positioning itself for. there'll be --eole is positioning itself for. there'll be people around _ is positioning itself for. there'll be people around europe - is positioning itself for. there'll be people around europe who l is positioning itself for. there'll. be people around europe who will look at this posturing with a 30,000 troops close up to the russian border, this new american base in poland and will think that the possibility of accidental conflict becomes that much greater. theoretically yes but at the same time you — theoretically yes but at the same time you knew that was i want to format _ time you knew that was i want to format published about five months a -o format published about five months ago showing the real borders. what

russia _ ago showing the real borders. what russia is— ago showing the real borders. what russia is pretending that is close to its _ russia is pretending that is close to its border is still too thousand kilometres to the russian territory for example. so previously it's been 'ust for example. so previously it's been just a _ for example. so previously it's been just a very— for example. so previously it's been just a very short piece of the direct— just a very short piece of the direct border between russia and the nato countries and napped only with the finland possible membership and today we _ the finland possible membership and today we all can say with the finished _ today we all can say with the finished membership, they will have this extra _ finished membership, they will have this extra kilometres but the posturing in poland, you still have the whole — posturing in poland, you still have the whole territory of belarus and russia _ the whole territory of belarus and russia and only to leningrad is the only region — russia and only to leningrad is the only region where you can definitely speaking _ only region where you can definitely speaking about the actual border with the — speaking about the actual border with the nato states and the russian federation. so that has been really play russian propaganda very well unfortunately not critically taken in by _ unfortunately not critically taken in by the — unfortunately not critically taken in by the public in many western european — in by the public in many western european countries. you in by the public in many western european countries.— in by the public in many western european countries. you spent a lot of time recently _ european countries. you spent a lot of time recently in _ european countries. you spent a lot of time recently in turkey _ european countries. you spent a lot of time recently in turkey and - european countries. you spent a lot of time recently in turkey and the i of time recently in turkey and the government decision there except accept finland and sweden will disappoint moscow no doubt. where do

you think it leads relations between turkey and russia? that you think it leads relations between turkey and russia?— turkey and russia? that is very important _ turkey and russia? that is very important and _ turkey and russia? that is very important and we _ turkey and russia? that is very important and we definitely - important and we definitely understood that regionally turkey would _ understood that regionally turkey would play this finnish and swedish case in _ would play this finnish and swedish case in the — would play this finnish and swedish case in the domestic policy that was important _ case in the domestic policy that was important for the president there in his image _ important for the president there in his image but at the same time, in the very— his image but at the same time, in the very critical moments erdogan always— the very critical moments erdogan always to — the very critical moments erdogan always to the side of nato. it was 2015 in _ always to the side of nato. it was 2015 in the — always to the side of nato. it was 2015 in the case of syria and 2014 in the _ 2015 in the case of syria and 2014 in the case — 2015 in the case of syria and 2014 in the case of crimea and that is why we were almost are in the situation, _ why we were almost are in the situation, erdogan also would support— situation, erdogan also would support membership of the new countries — support membership of the new countries. he nevertrusted support membership of the new countries. he never trusted vladimir putin— countries. he never trusted vladimir putin and _ countries. he never trusted vladimir putin and needed him and used the russian _ putin and needed him and used the russian federation in his domestic and international but at the same time _ and international but at the same time it— and international but at the same time it was— and international but at the same time it was never a full trust. that is why— time it was never a full trust. that is why erdogan needs these additional leverages in his relations with russia. while discussions _ relations with russia. while discussions have _ relations with russia. while discussions have been - relations with russia. while - discussions have been ongoing, no let up in the missile strikes on

ukraine. there have been further missile strikes on ukrainian cities today outside of the russian offensive in the donbas region. four people have been killed in the city of mykolaiv after russia fired eight missiles, hitting a residential building. and we now have new cctv footage from monday's attack on the shopping centre in kremenchuk which makes a mockery of russia's explanation for this attack. the kremlin said the damage was caused by a secondary explosion that had come from a nearby weapons depot. a warning — these pictures are pretty shocking. so, that is the explosion in real time. but if we slow that down for you, you can quite clearly see it is a cruise missile. in fact, just look at the size of that missile in comparison to everything around it. it is enormous. 18 people killed, another 60 injured. there are still 20 people missing at that site. but when you see the force of the explosion, quite extraordinary that the death toll was not much, much higher.

the ministry of defence said today that russia's shortcomings of targeting plaintiffs will result likely in further civilian casualties is certainly we have seen more attacks on civilians in recent days. t more attacks on civilians in recent da s. ~' ., . , more attacks on civilians in recent da s. ~' ., ., , ., days. i think unfortunately that rediction days. i think unfortunately that prediction is — days. i think unfortunately that prediction is accurate. - days. i think unfortunately that prediction is accurate. putin . days. i think unfortunately that l prediction is accurate. putin has decided to increase the barbarity of his assault on ukraine. he tried to do a more precision strike, shock and awe strategy in the initial phase when he lost in february but found that he was able to do that savea shifted back to a kind of calculus that he is more comfortable with in which he is going to slowly use heavy round of artillery to grind away at the ukrainians indiscriminately, killing professional soldiers as well as civilians. in these horrible images of missiles going into shopping centresjust of missiles going into shopping centres just underscores that he is when to kill civilians indiscriminately and those missiles are signals to the ukrainian

population of what he is willing to do to them and this was a signal to the west toward the that could happen across ukraine's border if they intervene.— they intervene. there is also a -risoner they intervene. there is also a prisoner swap _ they intervene. there is also a prisoner swap today. - they intervene. there is also a prisoner swap today. the - they intervene. there is also a i prisoner swap today. the biggest exchange i think we have seen since the war began, nearly 150 fighters sit in each direction. what do you know because i think many of those who were returned were the seriously injured and some from mariupol. some of those we now _ injured and some from mariupol. some of those we now offer _ injured and some from mariupol. some of those we now offer mariupol dealing — of those we now offer mariupol dealing who are from the steel works — dealing who are from the steel works. that is important because they are — works. that is important because they are not in the mood from russia to return _ they are not in the mood from russia to return the — they are not in the mood from russia to return the soldiers back to ukraine _ to return the soldiers back to ukraine. and one of the reasons is that they— ukraine. and one of the reasons is that they became a symbol for them. they created the animated picture from the _ they created the animated picture from the map and that is why even despite _ from the map and that is why even despite the negotiations about the

surrender— despite the negotiations about the surrender on the conditions that they will— surrender on the conditions that they will be exchanged and treated as prisoners of war, without outbreaks of them were being sent to the uncontrolled territories in eastern — the uncontrolled territories in eastern ukraine where the law is not working _ eastern ukraine where the law is not working at _ eastern ukraine where the law is not working at all. that is why today is definiteiy — working at all. that is why today is definitely important both in terms of numbers, 140 two people but at the same — of numbers, 140 two people but at the same time also extremely important for these people that it is the _ important for these people that it is the first— important for these people that it is the first part of those in a saw. but remember that it is more than 600. _ but remember that it is more than 600. i_ but remember that it is more than 600, i would say soldiers because those _ 600, i would say soldiers because those who — 600, i would say soldiers because those who protected and defended azoff work police marines, armed forces _ azoff work police marines, armed forces and — azoff work police marines, armed forces and national guard so all the possible _ forces and national guard so all the possible security and services of ukraine — possible security and services of ukraine. so that it is important because — ukraine. so that it is important because as _ ukraine. so that it is important because as the symbol, they are returning back home.— because as the symbol, they are returning back home. some mercy for families from — returning back home. some mercy for families from mariupol _ returning back home. some mercy for families from mariupol who _ returning back home. some mercy for families from mariupol who have - returning back home. some mercy for| families from mariupol who have been worried about these men for so long will stop. as western leaders were meeting in madrid vladimir putin was working

to maintain his own sphere of influence in central asia. today, he was in turkmenistan for a summit of the leaders from azerbaijan, kazakhstan, iran and turkmenistan. the security aspects of the caspian region and its vast oil and gas resources have ta ken on greater importance. this is first time he has travelled abroad since his forces invaded ukraine and only the fourth time he has travelled since the start of the pandemic. and perhaps his willingness to leave russia at this point is an indication of his growing confidence. back at home, the message on state television no less beligerent than that we get from the kremlin.

quite annoying to hear it rises talking about illegitimate elections. let's speak to francis scarr from bbc monitoring, who follows russian state tv. tell us about the reaction in moscow to what they have been seeing at the nato summit because they must surely be people in the kremlin who are scratching their head about the strategy of this war in ukraine. indeed, given that the move by finland — indeed, given that the move by finland and _ indeed, given that the move by finland and sweden _ indeed, given that the move by finland and sweden which - indeed, given that the move by finland and sweden which we l indeed, given that the move by- finland and sweden which we expect tojoin_ finland and sweden which we expect tojoin nato— finland and sweden which we expect tojoin nato will— finland and sweden which we expect to join nato will add _ finland and sweden which we expect to join nato will add 800 _ finland and sweden which we expect tojoin nato will add 800 miles - finland and sweden which we expect tojoin nato will add 800 miles or. tojoin nato will add 800 miles or so to— tojoin nato will add 800 miles or so to russia's _ tojoin nato will add 800 miles or so to russia's border— tojoin nato will add 800 miles or so to russia's border with - tojoin nato will add 800 miles or so to russia's border with the - so to russia's border with the country— so to russia's border with the country but _ so to russia's border with the country but really _ so to russia's border with the country but really the - so to russia's border with the. country but really the message coming — country but really the message coming through— country but really the message coming through on _ country but really the message coming through on a _ country but really the message coming through on a russian . country but really the message - coming through on a russian state tv has been _ coming through on a russian state tv has been that— coming through on a russian state tv has been that this _ coming through on a russian state tv has been that this has _ coming through on a russian state tv has been that this has actually - has been that this has actually been lon- has been that this has actually been long in the — has been that this has actually been long in the works _ has been that this has actually been long in the works and _ has been that this has actually been long in the works and that _ has been that this has actually been long in the works and that nato - long in the works and that nato poses _ long in the works and that nato poses a — long in the works and that nato poses a potential _ long in the works and that nato poses a potential threat - long in the works and that nato poses a potential threat to - long in the works and that nato i poses a potential threat to russia. 0ne poses a potential threat to russia. one pundit — poses a potential threat to russia. 0ne pundit on state _ poses a potential threat to russia. 0ne pundit on state tv _ poses a potential threat to russia. 0ne pundit on state tv today - poses a potential threat to russia. 0ne pundit on state tv today wasl poses a potential threat to russia. i 0ne pundit on state tv today was say that nato _ 0ne pundit on state tv today was say that nato was — 0ne pundit on state tv today was say that nato was like _ 0ne pundit on state tv today was say that nato was like an _ 0ne pundit on state tv today was say that nato was like an anaconda - that nato was like an anaconda trying — that nato was like an anaconda trying to— that nato was like an anaconda trying to strengthen _ that nato was like an anaconda trying to strengthen its - that nato was like an anaconda trying to strengthen its grip - that nato was like an anaconda trying to strengthen its grip on| trying to strengthen its grip on russia — trying to strengthen its grip on russia and _

trying to strengthen its grip on russia and potentially- trying to strengthen its grip on russia and potentially block. trying to strengthen its grip on russia and potentially block it| trying to strengthen its grip on - russia and potentially block it from the baltic— russia and potentially block it from the baltic region. _ russia and potentially block it from the baltic region. there _ russia and potentially block it from the baltic region. there have - russia and potentially block it from the baltic region. there have also i the baltic region. there have also been some — the baltic region. there have also been some kind _ the baltic region. there have also been some kind of— the baltic region. there have also been some kind of gallows - the baltic region. there have also. been some kind of gallows humour the baltic region. there have also - been some kind of gallows humour on state tv— been some kind of gallows humour on state tv with — been some kind of gallows humour on state tv with presenters _ been some kind of gallows humour on state tv with presenters saying - been some kind of gallows humour on state tv with presenters saying this i state tv with presenters saying this is unpleasant — state tv with presenters saying this is unpleasant news, _ state tv with presenters saying this is unpleasant news, this— state tv with presenters saying this is unpleasant news, this message l is unpleasant news, this message coming _ is unpleasant news, this message coming out — is unpleasant news, this message coming out of— is unpleasant news, this message coming out of madrid, _ is unpleasant news, this message coming out of madrid, but - is unpleasant news, this message coming out of madrid, but really. is unpleasant news, this message l coming out of madrid, but really we expected _ coming out of madrid, but really we expected it — coming out of madrid, but really we expected it and _ coming out of madrid, but really we expected it and while _ coming out of madrid, but really we expected it and while the _ coming out of madrid, but really we expected it and while the secretaryl expected it and while the secretary general— expected it and while the secretary general has — expected it and while the secretary general has been _ expected it and while the secretary general has been saying _ expected it and while the secretary general has been saying that - expected it and while the secretary general has been saying that putin| general has been saying that putin will get _ general has been saying that putin will get more — general has been saying that putin will get more than _ general has been saying that putin will get more than last _ general has been saying that putin will get more than last nato- general has been saying that putin will get more than last nato but in| will get more than last nato but in fact that it— will get more than last nato but in fact that it will also _ will get more than last nato but in fact that it will also get _ will get more than last nato but in fact that it will also get more - fact that it will also get more russia — fact that it will also get more russia and _ fact that it will also get more russia and it's _ fact that it will also get more russia and it's not _ fact that it will also get more russia and it's not clear- fact that it will also get more russia and it's not clear who| fact that it will also get more - russia and it's not clear who stands to lose _ russia and it's not clear who stands to lose more from _ russia and it's not clear who stands to lose more from this _ russia and it's not clear who stands to lose more from this situation. i to lose more from this situation. what _ to lose more from this situation. what do — to lose more from this situation. what do you _ to lose more from this situation. what do you make _ to lose more from this situation. what do you make of _ to lose more from this situation. what do you make of his - to lose more from this situation. what do you make of his visit - to lose more from this situation. what do you make of his visit to| what do you make of his visit to this caspian summit because there have been all sorts of speculation about the russian president's health. clearly he is well enough to travel. , ., . ., travel. given how close to the kremlin guards _ travel. given how close to the kremlin guards putin's - travel. given how close to the | kremlin guards putin's health, travel. given how close to the i kremlin guards putin's health, a surprise — kremlin guards putin's health, a surprise rumours _ kremlin guards putin's health, a surprise rumours abound - kremlin guards putin's health, a surprise rumours abound like i kremlin guards putin's health, a. surprise rumours abound like this and all— surprise rumours abound like this and all kinds _ surprise rumours abound like this and all kinds of— surprise rumours abound like this and all kinds of rumours - surprise rumours abound like this and all kinds of rumours exist - surprise rumours abound like this and all kinds of rumours exist of. and all kinds of rumours exist of him having — and all kinds of rumours exist of him having cancer— and all kinds of rumours exist of| him having cancer or parkinson's disease — him having cancer or parkinson's disease or— him having cancer or parkinson's disease or you _ him having cancer or parkinson's disease or you name _ him having cancer or parkinson's disease or you name it. - him having cancer or parkinson's disease or you name it. and - him having cancer or parkinson's. disease or you name it. and really it was— disease or you name it. and really it was actually _ disease or you name it. and really it was actually covered _ disease or you name it. and really it was actually covered pretty- it was actually covered pretty scantily — it was actually covered pretty scantily on _ it was actually covered pretty scantily on russian _ it was actually covered pretty scantily on russian tv - it was actually covered pretty scantily on russian tv today. it was actually covered pretty- scantily on russian tv today. there was much _ scantily on russian tv today. there was much more _ scantily on russian tv today. there was much more attention—

scantily on russian tv today. there was much more attention given - scantily on russian tv today. there was much more attention given to i scantily on russian tv today. there i was much more attention given to the nato summit— was much more attention given to the nato summit but _ was much more attention given to the nato summit but the _ was much more attention given to the nato summit but the messaging - was much more attention given to the nato summit but the messaging thatl nato summit but the messaging that was there said — nato summit but the messaging that was there said that _ nato summit but the messaging that was there said that this _ nato summit but the messaging that was there said that this is _ nato summit but the messaging that was there said that this is putin- was there said that this is putin going _ was there said that this is putin going about _ was there said that this is putin going about his— was there said that this is putin going about his business- was there said that this is putin going about his business as - was there said that this is putin. going about his business as usual and many— going about his business as usual and many allies _ going about his business as usual and many allies in _ going about his business as usual and many allies in another- going about his business as usual and many allies in another part . going about his business as usual| and many allies in another part of the world, — and many allies in another part of the world, not— and many allies in another part of the world, not pay— and many allies in another part of the world, not pay too _ and many allies in another part of the world, not pay too much- the world, not pay too much attention— the world, not pay too much attention to _ the world, not pay too much attention to what _ the world, not pay too much attention to what is - the world, not pay too much attention to what is going i the world, not pay too much| attention to what is going on the world, not pay too much. attention to what is going on in nato~ _ attention to what is going on in nato~ and _ attention to what is going on in nato~ and one _ attention to what is going on in nato. and one presenter, - attention to what is going on in nato. and one presenter, shel nato. and one presenter, she actually— nato. and one presenter, she actually paid _ nato. and one presenter, she actually paid attention - nato. and one presenter, she actually paid attention and - actually paid attention and highlighted _ actually paid attention and highlighted with _ actually paid attention and highlighted with apparent i actually paid attention and - highlighted with apparent relish comments _ highlighted with apparent relish comments from _ highlighted with apparent relish comments from the _ highlighted with apparent relish comments from the new- highlighted with apparent relish comments from the new york l highlighted with apparent relish - comments from the new york times which _ comments from the new york times which said _ comments from the new york times which said that — comments from the new york times which said that putin _ comments from the new york times which said that putin and _ comments from the new york times which said that putin and his - which said that putin and his oneness— which said that putin and his oneness to _ which said that putin and his oneness to leave _ which said that putin and his oneness to leave russia - which said that putin and his oneness to leave russia at l which said that putin and his . oneness to leave russia at this which said that putin and his - oneness to leave russia at this time of the _ oneness to leave russia at this time of the war— oneness to leave russia at this time of the war raging _ oneness to leave russia at this time of the war raging in— oneness to leave russia at this time of the war raging in ukraine - oneness to leave russia at this time of the war raging in ukraine was - of the war raging in ukraine was perhaps— of the war raging in ukraine was perhapsan_ of the war raging in ukraine was perhaps an indication _ of the war raging in ukraine was perhaps an indication of- of the war raging in ukraine was perhaps an indication of the - perhaps an indication of the possible _ perhaps an indication of the possible compare _ perhaps an indication of the possible compare conflicts. perhaps an indication of the . possible compare conflicts that perhaps an indication of the - possible compare conflicts that the war effort — possible compare conflicts that the war effort on — possible compare conflicts that the war effort on track— possible compare conflicts that the war effort on track at _ possible compare conflicts that the war effort on track at the _ possible compare conflicts that the war effort on track at the putin - possible compare conflicts that the war effort on track at the putin is l war effort on track at the putin is fully in_ war effort on track at the putin is fully in control— war effort on track at the putin is fully in control at _ war effort on track at the putin is fully in control at home. - war effort on track at the putin is fully in control at home.- fully in control at home. hannah described the _ fully in control at home. hannah described the scorched-earth i fully in control at home. hannah - described the scorched-earth tactics described the scorched—earth tactics that are bringing russia slowly to a position where they control the donbas region in the east but it is slow going. does the russian public have a view of what will happen once the military are in control there? it is hard to say because i watched several _ it is hard to say because i watched several hours _ it is hard to say because i watched several hours of _ it is hard to say because i watched several hours of state _ it is hard to say because i watched several hours of state tv - it is hard to say because i watched several hours of state tv every- it is hard to say because i watched | several hours of state tv every day

and it's very— several hours of state tv every day and it's very hard _ several hours of state tv every day and it's very hard to— several hours of state tv every day and it's very hard to get— several hours of state tv every day and it's very hard to get a - several hours of state tv every day and it's very hard to get a kind - several hours of state tv every day and it's very hard to get a kind of. and it's very hard to get a kind of idea _ and it's very hard to get a kind of idea of what— and it's very hard to get a kind of idea of what the _ and it's very hard to get a kind of idea of what the endgame - and it's very hard to get a kind of idea of what the endgame of - idea of what the endgame of this might— idea of what the endgame of this might be — idea of what the endgame of this might be the _ idea of what the endgame of this might be. the talk— idea of what the endgame of this might be. the talk about- idea of what the endgame of this might be. the talk about all- idea of what the endgame of thisi might be. the talk about all kinds of disparate — might be. the talk about all kinds of disparate names about - might be. the talk about all kinds . of disparate names about detoxifying and he _ of disparate names about detoxifying and he ukraine, _ of disparate names about detoxifying and he ukraine, these— of disparate names about detoxifying and he ukraine, these two— of disparate names about detoxifying and he ukraine, these two terms- of disparate names about detoxifying | and he ukraine, these two terms that putin introduced _ and he ukraine, these two terms that putin introduced in _ and he ukraine, these two terms that putin introduced in february- and he ukraine, these two terms that putin introduced in february when - and he ukraine, these two terms that putin introduced in february when he| putin introduced in february when he lost the _ putin introduced in february when he lost the invasion _ putin introduced in february when he lost the invasion of— putin introduced in february when he lost the invasion of the _ putin introduced in february when he lost the invasion of the also - putin introduced in february when he lost the invasion of the also talk- lost the invasion of the also talk about— lost the invasion of the also talk about protecting _ lost the invasion of the also talk about protecting ethnic- lost the invasion of the also talk| about protecting ethnic russians lost the invasion of the also talk. about protecting ethnic russians in donbas— about protecting ethnic russians in donbas is— about protecting ethnic russians in donbas is safeguarding _ about protecting ethnic russians in donbas is safeguarding russia's. donbas is safeguarding russia's water— donbas is safeguarding russia's water security _ donbas is safeguarding russia's water security concerns. - donbas is safeguarding russia's water security concerns. but - donbas is safeguarding russia's. water security concerns. but really ithink— water security concerns. but really i think it's — water security concerns. but really i think it's wrong _ water security concerns. but really i think it's wrong to _ water security concerns. but really i think it's wrong to see _ water security concerns. but really i think it's wrong to see the - i think it's wrong to see the idea that putin pops _ i think it's wrong to see the idea that putin pops by— i think it's wrong to see the idea that putin pops by a _ i think it's wrong to see the idea that putin pops by a third - i think it's wrong to see the idea that putin pops by a third set. that putin pops by a third set installed _ that putin pops by a third set installed it _ that putin pops by a third set installed it as _ that putin pops by a third set installed it as we _ that putin pops by a third set installed it as we saw- that putin pops by a third set installed it as we saw six - that putin pops by a third set. installed it as we saw six weeks into the — installed it as we saw six weeks into the war. _ installed it as we saw six weeks into the war, he _ installed it as we saw six weeks into the war, he withdrew - installed it as we saw six weeksl into the war, he withdrew troops from _ into the war, he withdrew troops from around _ into the war, he withdrew troops from around kyiv_ into the war, he withdrew troops from around kyiv and _ into the war, he withdrew troops from around kyiv and cheer- into the war, he withdrew troops from around kyiv and cheer to i from around kyiv and cheer to heave and redeployed _ from around kyiv and cheer to heave and redeployed the _ from around kyiv and cheer to heave and redeployed the to _ from around kyiv and cheer to heave and redeployed the to the _ from around kyiv and cheer to heave and redeployed the to the east - and redeployed the to the east of the country _ and redeployed the to the east of the country so— and redeployed the to the east of the country. so really— and redeployed the to the east of the country. so really he - and redeployed the to the east of the country. so really he is- and redeployed the to the east of the country. so really he is afterl the country. so really he is after looking — the country. so really he is after looking at — the country. so really he is after looking at the _ the country. so really he is after looking at the water— the country. so really he is after. looking at the water circumstances, the international— looking at the water circumstances, the international environment - looking at the water circumstances, the international environment and i looking at the water circumstances, l the international environment and at this stage _ the international environment and at this stage is — the international environment and at this stage is very— the international environment and at this stage is very hard _ the international environment and at this stage is very hard to _ the international environment and at this stage is very hard to say - the international environment and at this stage is very hard to say where i this stage is very hard to say where he will— this stage is very hard to say where he will go _ this stage is very hard to say where he will go stop~ _ this stage is very hard to say where he will go stop. he _ this stage is very hard to say where he will go stop-— he will go stop. he is talking as we seak so he will go stop. he is talking as we speak so there _ he will go stop. he is talking as we speak so there are _ speak so there are comments dropping. he said don't rule out teachers will emerge in our relations with finland and sweden actually decided to join nato.

relations with finland and sweden actually decided tojoin nato. he has been commenting on the shopping centre insisting that russia did not hit civilian targets. he saidmight limit it well as i'm reading this book russia will have to answer in kind if nato infrastructure is deployed to finland and sweden. securely they are quite animated about what is happening today. can you sort of wonder where this leaves finland and sweden in the interim because all 30 countries of course have to ratify the accession of these two countries. does it lead to being a limbo position?— being a limbo position? indeed this rocess is being a limbo position? indeed this process is not _ being a limbo position? indeed this process is not going _ being a limbo position? indeed this process is not going to _ being a limbo position? indeed this process is not going to happen - process is not going to happen overnight _ process is not going to happen overnight. and _ process is not going to happen overnight. and for— process is not going to happen overnight. and for some - process is not going to happen - overnight. and for some time now the kremlin— overnight. and for some time now the kremlin has— overnight. and for some time now the kremlin has been— overnight. and for some time now the kremlin has been saying _ overnight. and for some time now the kremlin has been saying this- overnight. and for some time now the kremlin has been saying this is- overnight. and for some time now the kremlin has been saying this is not. kremlin has been saying this is not a war— kremlin has been saying this is not a war against— kremlin has been saying this is not a war against ukraine _ kremlin has been saying this is not a war against ukraine but - kremlin has been saying this is not a war against ukraine but a - kremlin has been saying this is not a war against ukraine but a war- a war against ukraine but a war against— a war against ukraine but a war against nato. in— a war against ukraine but a war against nato. in all— a war against ukraine but a war against nato. in all state - a war against ukraine but a war against nato. in all state tv, . a war against ukraine but a wari against nato. in all state tv, we have seen— against nato. in all state tv, we have seen multiple _ against nato. in all state tv, we have seen multiple threats - against nato. in all state tv, we have seen multiple threats fromj against nato. in all state tv, we - have seen multiple threats from just the other— have seen multiple threats from just the other day— have seen multiple threats from just the other day the _ have seen multiple threats from just the other day the space _ have seen multiple threats from just the other day the space agency - the other day the space agency publishing _ the other day the space agency publishing images— the other day the space agency publishing images from - the other day the space agency publishing images from its - publishing images from its satellites— publishing images from its satellites of— publishing images from its satellites of central- publishing images from itsl satellites of central london publishing images from its - satellites of central london and washington _ satellites of central london and washington at _ satellites of central london and washington at the _ satellites of central london and washington at the pentagon . satellites of central london andl washington at the pentagon and satellites of central london and - washington at the pentagon and paris and brussels — washington at the pentagon and paris and brussels and _ washington at the pentagon and paris

and brussels and all _ washington at the pentagon and paris and brussels and all state _ washington at the pentagon and paris and brussels and all state tv - washington at the pentagon and paris and brussels and all state tv they - and brussels and all state tv they were _ and brussels and all state tv they were saying — and brussels and all state tv they were saying this— and brussels and all state tv they were saying this is— and brussels and all state tv they were saying this is a _ and brussels and all state tv they were saying this is a friendly- were saying this is a friendly reminder— were saying this is a friendly reminderthat_ were saying this is a friendly reminderthat we _ were saying this is a friendly reminder that we know- were saying this is a friendly- reminder that we know where you are and we _ reminder that we know where you are and we have — reminder that we know where you are and we have nuclear— reminder that we know where you are and we have nuclear weapons. - reminder that we know where you are and we have nuclear weapons. so- and we have nuclear weapons. so really— and we have nuclear weapons. so really i _ and we have nuclear weapons. so really i expect _ and we have nuclear weapons. so really i expect more _ and we have nuclear weapons. so really i expect more rhetoric- and we have nuclear weapons. so really i expect more rhetoric likel really i expect more rhetoric like this to _ really i expect more rhetoric like this to appear— really i expect more rhetoric like this to appear over— really i expect more rhetoric like this to appear over the - really i expect more rhetoric like this to appear over the coming l this to appear over the coming weeks — this to appear over the coming weeks. , ., this to appear over the coming weeks. ,, , ., , weeks. putin says ultimate goal is liberatin: weeks. putin says ultimate goal is liberating donbas _ weeks. putin says ultimate goal is liberating donbas in _ weeks. putin says ultimate goal is liberating donbas in getting - liberating donbas in getting security guarantees. frances was just say that the russians describe they vow as an anaconda book to get off of the baltic region and they might have a point because we enjoyed a data is quite interesting. they do control the interest of the baltic sea and is that important to dado? does it help with that no plans to defend these more vulnerable countries in eastern europe? vulnerable countries in eastern euro e? ., vulnerable countries in eastern euroe? ., . ., . ., vulnerable countries in eastern euroe? ., ., ., . europe? for the alliance, a big we had to have _ europe? for the alliance, a big we had to have sweden _ europe? for the alliance, a big we had to have sweden and _ europe? for the alliance, a big we had to have sweden and finland . europe? for the alliance, a big we - had to have sweden and finland apply for nato. think about how expensive the geography is. like bringing in the geography is. like bringing in the equivalent of two germanys. some will say that brings 800 miles of russia to dado but it brings 800 miles of data to russia and think of

it that way. it's pretty in the alliance to nonaligned countries that have actually very capable and top line naval forces, that have actually very capable and top line navalforces, airforces and highly trained ground forces in our robust economies. they are very transatlantic, pro—american. there accession is transfer the baltic sea into a data lake and the baltic countries, estonia, latvia and lithuania are far more defensible now with sweden and finland in the ranks. this is a real win for nato. that is really interesting and on that point in the limo that francis talked about. are there any security guarantees given to sweden and finland in the interim? taste guarantees given to sweden and finland in the interim? we already heard at least _ finland in the interim? we already heard at least from _ finland in the interim? we already heard at least from the _ finland in the interim? we already heard at least from the that - finland in the interim? we already heard at least from the that they l heard at least from the that they unilaterally provided the security guarantees by the time when accession will take place and we heard _ accession will take place and we heard from the secretary general that he _ heard from the secretary general that he called all the countries to

ratify— that he called all the countries to ratify as — that he called all the countries to ratify as soon as possible. we also heard _ ratify as soon as possible. we also heard from a few of the neighbouring countries _ heard from a few of the neighbouring countries but don't forget agree that both — countries but don't forget agree that both finland and sweden despite bein- that both finland and sweden despite being neutral are very well—prepared in terms _ being neutral are very well—prepared in terms of— being neutral are very well—prepared in terms of their security and armed forces development. there armed forces— forces development. there armed forces are — forces development. there armed forces are in much better shape than in germany, — forces are in much better shape than in germany, for example, and the talks— in germany, for example, and the talks on— in germany, for example, and the talks on the — in germany, for example, and the talks on the fence over the last 70 years— talks on the fence over the last 70 years after— talks on the fence over the last 70 years after the war so finland has never— years after the war so finland has never considered russia as a partner and finland — never considered russia as a partner and finland always has been a bit preferred — and finland always has been a bit preferred to the possible provocations from the russian side. that is— provocations from the russian side. that is why— provocations from the russian side. that is why they are not coming out of the _ that is why they are not coming out of the blue — that is why they are not coming out of the blue. they are prepared and discussed — of the blue. they are prepared and discussed agents ever will they made a decision— discussed agents ever will they made a decision about geordie and date make _ a decision about geordie and date make sure — a decision about geordie and date make sure the other countries will be able _ make sure the other countries will be able to— make sure the other countries will be able to come. including norway because _ be able to come. including norway because they also have a special pact with — because they also have a special pact with the nordic countries and a security— pact with the nordic countries and a security agreement that worked even before _ security agreement that worked even before dado application. more security agreement that worked even before dado application.— before dado application. more on those comments _ before dado application. more on those comments from _ before dado application. more on those comments from vladimir i before dado application. more on - those comments from vladimir putin that if nato does put infrastructure in finland and sweden, they will

respond in kind which would suggest they are going to increase her military position along that 100 mile border. francis, thank you very much indeed forjoining us on the programme. if the energy costs are spiralling and the amount of money in our pockets dimishing, what does that mean for the aviation sector? seemingly it is not having any effect at the moment. in fact, post—covid, the demand has surged. fares booked 14 days prior to departure have jumped 33% on last year. and those of us who have tried to travel in recent weeks will know what sort of chaos that is creating in the airports. in the us, more than 1400 flights were cancelled yesterday. from thursday to monday, us airlines cancelled more than 5400. in the uk, the government has given airlines two weeks to choose whether or not to hand back up to 30% of their summer capacity without the risk of losing those prized slots next year. the german government today slashed red tape to make it easier for airports to hire foreign workers at short notice in sectors

such as baggage handling and security checks. let's speak to william mcgee, an airline industry expert at the american economic liberties project. it is one big mass of the moment and the debate seems to be the same the world over. why two years after the airlines were receiving this infusion of cash does the system remain in disarray? shah infusion of cash does the system remain in disarray?— remain in disarray? an excellent auestion remain in disarray? an excellent question and _ remain in disarray? an excellent question and this _ remain in disarray? an excellent question and this is _ remain in disarray? an excellent question and this is a _ remain in disarray? an excellent question and this is a very - remain in disarray? an excellent i question and this is a very opaque industry — question and this is a very opaque industry we — question and this is a very opaque industry. we really— question and this is a very opaque industry. we really are _ question and this is a very opaque industry. we really are not - question and this is a very opaque | industry. we really are not getting straight _ industry. we really are not getting straight answers— industry. we really are not getting straight answers from _ industry. we really are not getting straight answers from the - industry. we really are not gettingj straight answers from the airlines. in straight answers from the airlines. in the _ straight answers from the airlines. in the us, — straight answers from the airlines. in the us, the _ straight answers from the airlines. in the us, the mail— straight answers from the airlines. in the us, the mail out— straight answers from the airlines. in the us, the mail out the - in the us, the mail out the taxpayers _ in the us, the mail out the taxpayers gave _ in the us, the mail out the taxpayers gave the - in the us, the mail out the taxpayers gave the us - in the us, the mail out the - taxpayers gave the us industry was as high— taxpayers gave the us industry was as high as — taxpayers gave the us industry was as high as any— taxpayers gave the us industry was as high as any industry _ taxpayers gave the us industry was as high as any industry got. - taxpayers gave the us industry was as high as any industry got. it - taxpayers gave the us industry was as high as any industry got. it was. as high as any industry got. it was some _ as high as any industry got. it was some $54 — as high as any industry got. it was some $54 billion. _ as high as any industry got. it was some $54 billion. and _ as high as any industry got. it was some $54 billion. and the - as high as any industry got. it was some $54 billion. and the one - as high as any industry got. it was i some $54 billion. and the one caveat that congress — some $54 billion. and the one caveat that congress said _ some $54 billion. and the one caveat that congress said to _ some $54 billion. and the one caveat that congress said to the _ some $54 billion. and the one caveat that congress said to the us - that congress said to the us carriers— that congress said to the us carriers was— that congress said to the us carriers was make _ that congress said to the us carriers was make sure - that congress said to the us carriers was make sure you i that congress said to the us - carriers was make sure you keep your staffing _ carriers was make sure you keep your staffing up _ carriers was make sure you keep your staffing up to — carriers was make sure you keep your staffing up to speed. _ carriers was make sure you keep your staffing up to speed. well— staffing up to speed. well they found — staffing up to speed. well they found ways _ staffing up to speed. well they found ways of _ staffing up to speed. well they found ways of getting - staffing up to speed. well they found ways of getting around l staffing up to speed. well they - found ways of getting around them and encourage _ found ways of getting around them and encourage early— found ways of getting around them and encourage early retirement- found ways of getting around theml and encourage early retirement and now lo _ and encourage early retirement and now lo and — and encourage early retirement and now lo and behold _ and encourage early retirement and now lo and behold two _ and encourage early retirement and now lo and behold two years - and encourage early retirement and now lo and behold two years later.

and encourage early retirement and. now lo and behold two years later we have this _ now lo and behold two years later we have this tremendous _ now lo and behold two years later we have this tremendous pent—up - now lo and behold two years later we l have this tremendous pent—up demand you referenced — have this tremendous pent—up demand you referenced and _ have this tremendous pent—up demand you referenced and people _ have this tremendous pent—up demand you referenced and people that have i you referenced and people that have not been _ you referenced and people that have not been flying — you referenced and people that have not been flying for— you referenced and people that have not been flying for three _ you referenced and people that have not been flying for three years - you referenced and people that have not been flying for three years are l not been flying for three years are eager— not been flying for three years are eager to _ not been flying for three years are eager to get — not been flying for three years are eager to get back— not been flying for three years are eager to get back out _ not been flying for three years are eager to get back out there - not been flying for three years are eager to get back out there and i not been flying for three years are i eager to get back out there and see friends _ eager to get back out there and see friends and — eager to get back out there and see friends and family— eager to get back out there and see friends and family and _ eager to get back out there and see friends and family and what - eager to get back out there and see friends and family and what do - eager to get back out there and see friends and family and what do we i friends and family and what do we have? _ friends and family and what do we have? we — friends and family and what do we have? we have _ friends and family and what do we have? we have a _ friends and family and what do we have? we have a shortage - friends and family and what do we have? we have a shortage of- friends and family and what do we . have? we have a shortage of pilots. but even _ have? we have a shortage of pilots. but even now — have? we have a shortage of pilots. but even now in— have? we have a shortage of pilots. but even now in the _ have? we have a shortage of pilots. but even now in the midst _ have? we have a shortage of pilots. but even now in the midst of- have? we have a shortage of pilots. but even now in the midst of this. but even now in the midst of this mess: _ but even now in the midst of this mess, the — but even now in the midst of this mess, the airlines _ but even now in the midst of this mess, the airlines are _ but even now in the midst of this mess, the airlines are not- but even now in the midst of this mess, the airlines are not beingl mess, the airlines are not being truthful — mess, the airlines are not being truthful they— mess, the airlines are not being truthful. they are _ mess, the airlines are not being truthful. they are not _ mess, the airlines are not being - truthful. they are not acknowledging that they _ truthful. they are not acknowledging that they are — truthful. they are not acknowledging that they are unable _ truthful. they are not acknowledging that they are unable to _ truthful. they are not acknowledging that they are unable to operate - truthful. they are not acknowledging that they are unable to operate the i that they are unable to operate the schedules— that they are unable to operate the schedules that _ that they are unable to operate the schedules that they— that they are unable to operate the schedules that they are _ that they are unable to operate the schedules that they are publishing i schedules that they are publishing and they— schedules that they are publishing and they are — schedules that they are publishing and they are taking money- schedules that they are publishing and they are taking money for. . schedules that they are publishing and they are taking money for. soj schedules that they are publishing. and they are taking money for. so we really— and they are taking money for. so we really are _ and they are taking money for. so we really are in— and they are taking money for. so we reallyare in a— and they are taking money for. so we really are in a bit _ and they are taking money for. so we really are in a bit of— and they are taking money for. so we really are in a bit of a mess _ and they are taking money for. so we really are in a bit of a mess here - really are in a bit of a mess here and the — really are in a bit of a mess here and the real— really are in a bit of a mess here and the real issue _ really are in a bit of a mess here and the real issue seems - really are in a bit of a mess here and the real issue seems to- really are in a bit of a mess here and the real issue seems to be i really are in a bit of a mess here i and the real issue seems to be we don't _ and the real issue seems to be we don't even get _ and the real issue seems to be we don't even get straight _ and the real issue seems to be we don't even get straight answers i and the real issue seems to be we i don't even get straight answers from the industry — don't even get straight answers from the industry-— the industry. they would certainly sa over the industry. they would certainly say over here _ the industry. they would certainly say over here that _ the industry. they would certainly say over here that the _ the industry. they would certainly | say over here that the government the industry. they would certainly i say over here that the government is at fault because they brought an early end furlough support before the travel bands were lifted and so they were left in this unenviable position of trying to find salaries and pay for staff when the business was not there.— was not there. right, and here is the thing. _ was not there. right, and here is the thing. i _ was not there. right, and here is the thing, i worked _ was not there. right, and here is the thing, i worked in _ was not there. right, and here is the thing, i worked in airline - the thing, i worked in airline flight — the thing, i worked in airline flight operations— the thing, i worked in airline flight operations myself- the thing, i worked in airline flight operations myself for. the thing, i worked in airline - flight operations myself for seven years _ flight operations myself for seven years so _ flight operations myself for seven years so i— flight operations myself for seven years so i should _

flight operations myself for seven years so i should do _ flight operations myself for seven years so i should do for— flight operations myself for seven years so i should do for a - flight operations myself for seven years so i should do for a living, i years so i should do for a living, scheduling — years so i should do for a living, scheduling flights or— years so i should do for a living, scheduling flights or a _ years so i should do for a living, | scheduling flights or a dispatcher in the _ scheduling flights or a dispatcher in the us— scheduling flights or a dispatcher in the us system. _ scheduling flights or a dispatcher in the us system. i— scheduling flights or a dispatcher in the us system. i dispatch- scheduling flights or a dispatcher i in the us system. i dispatch flights and cancel— in the us system. i dispatch flights and cancelthem. _ in the us system. i dispatch flights and cancel them. the problem - in the us system. i dispatch flightsl and cancel them. the problem here in the us system. i dispatch flights i and cancel them. the problem here is we are _ and cancel them. the problem here is we are seeing— and cancel them. the problem here is we are seeing is— and cancel them. the problem here is we are seeing is we _ and cancel them. the problem here is we are seeing is we are _ and cancel them. the problem here is we are seeing is we are seeing - we are seeing is we are seeing historic highs _ we are seeing is we are seeing historic highs in terms - we are seeing is we are seeing historic highs in terms of - historic highs in terms of cancellations. _ historic highs in terms of cancellations. i- historic highs in terms of cancellations. i am - historic highs in terms of cancellations. lam been| historic highs in terms of - cancellations. i am been around historic highs in terms of _ cancellations. i am been around this industry— cancellations. i am been around this industry or— cancellations. i am been around this industry or working _ cancellations. i am been around this industry or working in it _ cancellations. i am been around this industry or working in it or— cancellations. i am been around this industry or working in it or writing i industry or working in it or writing about— industry or working in it or writing about it _ industry or working in it or writing about it since _ industry or working in it or writing about it since 85— industry or working in it or writing about it since 85 and _ industry or working in it or writing about it since 85 and i've - industry or working in it or writing about it since 85 and i've not - industry or working in it or writing| about it since 85 and i've not seen anything close _ about it since 85 and i've not seen anything close. the _ about it since 85 and i've not seen anything close. the real— about it since 85 and i've not seen anything close. the real questionl about it since 85 and i've not seen. anything close. the real question is why are _ anything close. the real question is why are so many— anything close. the real question is why are so many travellers - anything close. the real question is why are so many travellers finding i why are so many travellers finding out that _ why are so many travellers finding out that there _ why are so many travellers finding out that there flights _ why are so many travellers finding out that there flights are - why are so many travellers finding | out that there flights are cancelled when _ out that there flights are cancelled when they — out that there flights are cancelled when they are _ out that there flights are cancelled when they are in _ out that there flights are cancelled when they are in a _ out that there flights are cancelled when they are in a taxi _ out that there flights are cancelled when they are in a taxi on - out that there flights are cancelled when they are in a taxi on the - when they are in a taxi on the way to the _ when they are in a taxi on the way to the airport _ when they are in a taxi on the way to the airport was _ when they are in a taxi on the way to the airport was met _ when they are in a taxi on the way to the airport was met or even - when they are in a taxi on the way. to the airport was met or even worse at the _ to the airport was met or even worse at the airport — to the airport was met or even worse at the airport and _ to the airport was met or even worse at the airport and are _ to the airport was met or even worse at the airport and are holding - to the airport was met or even worse at the airport and are holding a - at the airport and are holding a crime _ at the airport and are holding a crime may— at the airport and are holding a crime may be? _ at the airport and are holding a crime may be? this _ at the airport and are holding a crime may be? this is - at the airport and are holding a crime may be? this is what - at the airport and are holding a crime may be? this is what is i crime may be? this is what is unreasonable _ crime may be? this is what is unreasonable and i— crime may be? this is what is unreasonable and i can- crime may be? this is what is| unreasonable and i can assure crime may be? this is what is - unreasonable and i can assure you the airlines — unreasonable and i can assure you the airlines have _ unreasonable and i can assure you the airlines have very— unreasonable and i can assure you i the airlines have very sophisticated technology— the airlines have very sophisticated technology and _ the airlines have very sophisticated technology and lots _ the airlines have very sophisticated technology and lots of _ the airlines have very sophisticated technology and lots of tools - the airlines have very sophisticated technology and lots of tools to - the airlines have very sophisticated | technology and lots of tools to help them _ technology and lots of tools to help them fly _ technology and lots of tools to help them fly out — technology and lots of tools to help them fly out their— technology and lots of tools to help them fly out their aircraft _ them fly out their aircraft movements, _ them fly out their aircraft movements, their- them fly out their aircraft movements, their crewi them fly out their aircraft - movements, their crew scheduling them fly out their aircraft _ movements, their crew scheduling and they are _ movements, their crew scheduling and they are not _ movements, their crew scheduling and they are not being _ movements, their crew scheduling and they are not being caught _ movements, their crew scheduling and they are not being caught by— they are not being caught by surprise _ they are not being caught by surprise the _ they are not being caught by surprise the morning - they are not being caught by surprise the morning of- they are not being caught by surprise the morning of that| they are not being caught by- surprise the morning of that they don't _ surprise the morning of that they don't have — surprise the morning of that they don't have enough— surprise the morning of that they don't have enough pilots. - surprise the morning of that they don't have enough pilots. they. surprise the morning of that they. don't have enough pilots. they have really _ don't have enough pilots. they have really done — don't have enough pilots. they have really done an — don't have enough pilots. they have really done an awful _ don't have enough pilots. they have really done an awfuljob _ don't have enough pilots. they have really done an awfuljob on - don't have enough pilots. they havel really done an awfuljob on customer service _ really done an awfuljob on customer service and _ really done an awfuljob on customer service and i would _ really done an awfuljob on customer service and i would rate _ really done an awfuljob on customer service and i would rate them - really done an awfuljob on customer service and i would rate them an - really done an awfuljob on customer service and i would rate them an f. service and i would rate them an f in terms _ service and i would rate them an f in terms of— service and i would rate them an f in terms of communicating - service and i would rate them an f in terms of communicating with i in terms of communicating with passengers _ in terms of communicating with passengers and _ in terms of communicating with passengers and there _ in terms of communicating with passengers and there is - in terms of communicating with passengers and there is no- passengers and there is no need for these _ passengers and there is no need for these last—minute _ passengers and there is no need for these last—minute cancellations - passengers and there is no need forj these last—minute cancellations and at the _ these last—minute cancellations and at the very— these last—minute cancellations and at the very least _ these last—minute cancellations and at the very least what _ these last—minute cancellations and at the very least what they - these last—minute cancellations and at the very least what they should i at the very least what they should do is _ at the very least what they should do is cancel— at the very least what they should do is cancel flights _ at the very least what they should do is cancel flights in—

at the very least what they should do is cancel flights in advance - at the very least what they should do is cancel flights in advance is. do is cancel flights in advance is not good, — do is cancel flights in advance is not good, don't _ do is cancel flights in advance is not good, don't get _ do is cancel flights in advance is not good, don't get me - do is cancel flights in advance isi not good, don't get me wrong... do is cancel flights in advance is- not good, don't get me wrong... we are to not good, don't get me wrong... are to leave it there and we will reach your people the world over that it's notjust a problem in their country as it is worldwide but stay with us, more to come. hello again. low pressure stays with us this week, so the weather is unsettled. today has been a day of sunshine and showers. some places taking a direct hit with some heavy downpours, just down the road, perhaps staying entirely dry with blue skies and sunshine. that's the way showers go. they are random in nature often, as we can see, as they have been today across many parts of the uk. however, we have seen a line from across parts of south west england, and that line has been caused by the sonar convergence — the winds bashing together — and underneath this line, there will be some areas that will have had a pretty wet day, whereas brampton on the coast, not so many showers. now, looking at the satellite picture at the moment, we are watching this developing area of cloud come up across france. that overnight is going to be

bringing this zone of heavy rain northwards across england, perhaps reaching parts of wales, and certainly later in the night, we will see the rain move across northern england, reaching eastern areas of scotland as well. there will be a few showers out west, meanwhile. temperatures overnight staying into double figures, very similar to recent nights, really. and looking at the weather charts into thursday morning, where we start off with rain, across eastern areas of scotland, that will tend to push its way northwards and a bit more northwestwards through the day. after a bright start for many of you, shower clouds will bubble up. this time, the showers particularly slow—moving in nature, a much greater chance of seeing hail and thunder, and again, they will be pretty randomly scattered, although there will be another of those convergence zones, this time running across parts of south west england into central southern england, so a place like redding, you could be in for a shower as we head through thursday afternoon. by friday, we've still got a showery looking weather picture, low pressure still with us, but this time, the winds starting to pick up, strength coming in from a west or south westerly direction. where the showers do for them, at least they will be blown

across the sky fairly quickly, but still some heavy downpours around, still the risk of some thunder, and temperatures really changing very much day by day. high teens in the west, low 20s in the east. 0n into the weekend, well, we start off on an unsettled note, but through sunday and then into monday, we start to get this area of high pressure starting to influence our weather a little bit more very gradually. so we will start to lose the showers during the second half of the weekend, and into next week, should become largely dry with it some sunshine. temperatures eventually, for some, climbing at least into the mid—20s.

hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. a court in paris has sentenced the sole survivor of the 2015 terror attack on the bataclan theatre to life imprisonment. salah abdeselam will die in prison without any chance of parole. 130 people were killed in the attack on the french capital. it was the longest french trial in post—war history. of the 20 defendants connected to the plot, 19 were found guilty. tackling the world's climate crisis — a new report says britain will miss its ambitious targets unless it does more to cut its emmissions and insulate homes. and the end for the majestic 600—year—old oak tree — felled to save the new neighbours, who had built their houses too close to its roots. tonight with the context, ukrainian security analyst

hanna shelest and ian brzezinski, a former us deputy assistant secretary of defense for europe and nato. some breaking news. in the last hour, the us singer r kelly has been sentenced to 30 years in federal prison for sex charges. in september, a jury in new york convicted kelly of sex trafficking and racketeering. the court heard how he trafficked women between different us states, assisted by managers, security guards and his entourage over a period of 20 years. some of the women who testified in court have been reacting to the sentence. ., , ., court have been reacting to the sentence-— court have been reacting to the sentence. ., , ,, sentence. today is a very special but hard day _ sentence. today is a very special but hard day for _ sentence. today is a very special but hard day for us. _ sentence. today is a very special but hard day for us. it _ sentence. today is a very special. but hard day for us. it happened to me a long time ago when i was 17, i'm 45 today. i never thought i would be here to see him be held

accountable for the atrocious things he did to children. i don't know what else to say, except that i'm grateful for today, what else to say, except that i'm gratefulfortoday, i'm what else to say, except that i'm gratefulfor today, i'm grateful that robert sylvester kelly is away and will stay away and won't be able to harm anyone else. 0ur correspondent nomia iqbal is outside the us district court in new york. 30 years in the upper reaches of what the prosecution asked for, what is their reaction? the what the prosecution asked for, what is their reaction?— is their reaction? the prosecution wanted 25 years, _ is their reaction? the prosecution wanted 25 years, the _ is their reaction? the prosecution wanted 25 years, the judge - is their reaction? the prosecution i wanted 25 years, the judge handed wanted 25 years, thejudge handed down 30 years. the judge said she wanted the sentence to be a deterrent, she wasn't convinced by kelly's explanations that he wouldn't do this again. this marks a stunning downfall for a man who was an era defining musician, from the early 90s onwards, and he was

convicted last year as a sex predator, and now he has faced a reckoning. 30 years in prison, he is 55, which means he won't be eligible to come out until he is 85 years old. his lawyers did speak outside the courtroom a while ago, and they us he is devastated, and he also plans to appeal. it's worth mentioning that he does face are the trials later this summer in other jurisdictions, related to child pornography charges and obstruction of justice pornography charges and obstruction ofjustice charges as well. but for his victims, and we heard from one there, another one spoke, there were seven inside court including one of the victims�* fathers, this is a moment they have been waiting for for decades. we heard that he abuse mainly black and brown women over a period of decades, and they say that finally the boy has been heard. shah

finally the boy has been heard. an extraordinary fall from grace. thank you. the trial of 20 men accused of carrying out the 2015 terror attack in paris has concluded this evening. 130 were people were killed when gunmen and suicide bombers attacked the national football stadium, bars and restaurants in the city and then of course the bataclan theatre. the main suspect was salah abdeslam, the only surviving member of the group. the rest were accused of helping plot the attacks. 14 of them were tried in person, six in absentia. all but one were found guilty. abdeslam will spend the rest of his life behind bars. it was a hugely complex investigation — this is a graphic produced by the afp news agency which shows the web of planning across europe and across two continents, with logisitical support provided before and after the attack. i�*m joined now by freelance journalist madeleine schwartz in paris, who has been following the case closely. thank you for being with us. tell us

what you think has come out of this trial. did it provide the families with the answers they were looking for? , ., , with the answers they were looking for? , ., i, ., .. ., for? this has really been a marathon trial, it's for? this has really been a marathon trial. it's been _ for? this has really been a marathon trial, it's been going _ for? this has really been a marathon trial, it's been going on _ for? this has really been a marathon trial, it's been going on since - trial, it�*s been going on since september, and the scale as you mentioned is entirely unprecedented. hundreds of lawyers, more than 2000 people constituted as civil parties. 0ver people constituted as civil parties. over the course of the past ten months, we have heard from many of these civil parties, victims of the attacks, who lost loved ones. many people were hoping to find some kind of closure for these attacks. and many of them may well have come up with this sentencing that came down this afternoon. the with this sentencing that came down this afternoon.— this afternoon. the sentencing is si . nificant this afternoon. the sentencing is significant and _ this afternoon. the sentencing is significant and may _ this afternoon. the sentencing is significant and may that - this afternoon. the sentencing is significant and may that does -

this afternoon. the sentencing is l significant and may that does give some closure. what about salah abdeslam? i know when he first appeared at the trial, to see him in person must have been something for the families, and there was a certain arrogance in his demeanour at the beginning. but it seemed as i dipped in and out of the trial that his demeanour changed. yes. dipped in and out of the trial that his demeanour changed. yes, and i think that has — his demeanour changed. yes, and i think that has been _ his demeanour changed. yes, and i think that has been one _ his demeanour changed. yes, and i think that has been one of- his demeanour changed. yes, and i think that has been one of the - his demeanour changed. yes, and i | think that has been one of the most interesting aspects. before the trial, he had spent six years in almost total silence, not participating in any of the questions about the attacks, and many expected he would do the same over the course of the trial. that turned out not to be true. over the course of the past ten months, he has oscillated between two different personalities or personas, you could say. 0n the one hand, claiming allegiance to the islamic state. and on the other hand, saying that he did not wish to participate in the attacks, that he had decided to not blow himself up at the last minute,

while he was in paris. and begging for forgiveness while he was in paris. and begging forforgiveness from while he was in paris. and begging for forgiveness from the victims. let me bring in our panel. ian, touch wood, it has been a relatively quiet period of late. is that because you think we are better at detecting these plots since 2015 or is it just a detecting these plots since 2015 or is itjust a matter of time before the next one?— the next one? sadly, i think you have to assume _ the next one? sadly, i think you have to assume it _ the next one? sadly, i think you have to assume it is _ the next one? sadly, i think you have to assume it is a _ the next one? sadly, i think you have to assume it is a matter i the next one? sadly, i think you have to assume it is a matter of| have to assume it is a matter of time _ have to assume it is a matter of time until— have to assume it is a matter of time until the next one, but hopefully that time will be longer and longer and longer. when i think about— and longer and longer. when i think about this _ and longer and longer. when i think about this particular attack, i remember this, about this particular attack, i rememberthis, and i rememberthe severity— rememberthis, and i rememberthe severity of. — rememberthis, and i rememberthe severity of, 130 people unnecessarily and unjustifiably massacred by these terrorists. and here we _ massacred by these terrorists. and here we are, years later, and we have _ here we are, years later, and we have this — here we are, years later, and we have this massive investigative effort — have this massive investigative effort which reflects in many ways the increased effectiveness our intelligence community and law enforcement communities have in their— enforcement communities have in their knowledge and their ability to

track, _ their knowledge and their ability to track, identify and ultimately deter these _ track, identify and ultimately deter these kind of attacks. the ruling today— these kind of attacks. the ruling today is— these kind of attacks. the ruling today is a — these kind of attacks. the ruling today is a heavy one but it's fully justified — today is a heavy one but it's fully justified. we will see the deterrent effect _ justified. we will see the deterrent effect on _ justified. we will see the deterrent effect on those considering such violence — effect on those considering such violence. so in short, you can never say never. — violence. so in short, you can never say never. but — violence. so in short, you can never say never, but i think we have had an effect— say never, but i think we have had an effect on— say never, but i think we have had an effect on those who would consider— an effect on those who would consider such violence against our societies — consider such violence against our societies. we have been hunting them down, _ societies. we have been hunting them down, and _ societies. we have been hunting them down, and in — societies. we have been hunting them down, and in effect we have been deterring — down, and in effect we have been deterring them. i down, and in effect we have been deterring them.— deterring them. i remember covering the attack at — deterring them. i remember covering the attack at the _ deterring them. i remember covering the attack at the time, _ deterring them. i remember covering the attack at the time, hanna, - deterring them. i remember covering the attack at the time, hanna, and i l the attack at the time, hanna, and i know the french security services had a problem monitoring the long list of people suspected of being militants or had been involved in some sort of plotting and planning. there just were not enough security agents to track and keep hold of the people on that list. do you think we are better at tracking and monitoring the people we know about than we were six or seven years ago?

in terms of how many people you have, _ in terms of how many people you have it _ in terms of how many people you have it seems _ in terms of how many people you have, it seems after _ in terms of how many people you have, it seems after all _ in terms of how many people you have, it seems after all the - in terms of how many people you have, it seems after all the yearsj have, it seems after all the years we have — have, it seems after all the years we have improved _ have, it seems after all the yearsl we have improved communication between — we have improved communication between the — we have improved communication between the countries... - we have improved communication between the countries... we - we have improved communicationj between the countries... we have more _ between the countries... we have more intelligence _ between the countries... we have more intelligence exchange and i between the countries... we have more intelligence exchange and a| between the countries... we have i more intelligence exchange and a bit more _ more intelligence exchange and a bit more trust~ — more intelligence exchange and a bit more trust in — more intelligence exchange and a bit more trust. in most _ more intelligence exchange and a bit more trust. in most cases, _ more intelligence exchange and a bit more trust. in most cases, the - more trust. in most cases, the problems— more trust. in most cases, the problems were _ more trust. in most cases, the problems were for— more trust. in most cases, the problems were for example . more trust. in most cases, the. problems were for example that more trust. in most cases, the - problems were for example that in italy they— problems were for example that in italy they knew _ problems were for example that in italy they knew the _ problems were for example that in italy they knew the information - problems were for example that ini italy they knew the information and it didn't _ italy they knew the information and it didn't come — italy they knew the information and it didn't come to— italy they knew the information and it didn't come to france, _ italy they knew the information and it didn't come to france, or- italy they knew the information and it didn't come to france, or in - it didn't come to france, or in france — it didn't come to france, or in france the _ it didn't come to france, or in france the information - it didn't come to france, or in france the information didn'tl it didn't come to france, or in - france the information didn't come to belgium — france the information didn't come to belgium. more _ france the information didn't come to belgium. more trust _ france the information didn't come to belgium. more trust between i france the information didn't come i to belgium. more trust between the intelligence — to belgium. more trust between the intelligence services _ to belgium. more trust between the intelligence services in _ to belgium. more trust between the intelligence services in in _ to belgium. more trust between the intelligence services in in place, - intelligence services in in place, but at _ intelligence services in in place, but at the — intelligence services in in place, but at the same _ intelligence services in in place, but at the same time _ intelligence services in in place, but at the same time we - intelligence services in in place, j but at the same time we started intelligence services in in place, i but at the same time we started to use more _ but at the same time we started to use more digital— but at the same time we started to use more digital tools for- but at the same time we started to use more digital tools for tracking, j use more digital tools for tracking, and that— use more digital tools for tracking, and that has— use more digital tools for tracking, and that has also _ use more digital tools for tracking, and that has also helped. - use more digital tools for tracking, and that has also helped. with - use more digital tools for tracking, and that has also helped. with the| and that has also helped. with the different— and that has also helped. with the different types _ and that has also helped. with the different types of— and that has also helped. with the different types of border— and that has also helped. with the different types of border controls. | different types of border controls. these _ different types of border controls. these technological— different types of border controls. these technological things, - different types of border controls. these technological things, evenl different types of border controls. i these technological things, even if we are _ these technological things, even if we are afraid — these technological things, even if we are afraid of— these technological things, even if we are afraid of them, _ these technological things, even if we are afraid of them, they- these technological things, even if we are afraid of them, they help i these technological things, even if. we are afraid of them, they help and facilitate _ we are afraid of them, they help and facilitate the — we are afraid of them, they help and facilitate the work _ we are afraid of them, they help and facilitate the work of _ we are afraid of them, they help and facilitate the work of law— facilitate the work of law enforcement _ facilitate the work of law enforcement and - facilitate the work of law enforcement and the - enforcement and the security agencies _ enforcement and the security agencies when _ enforcement and the security agencies when they- enforcement and the security agencies when they are - enforcement and the security i agencies when they are tracking enforcement and the security - agencies when they are tracking such suspicious— agencies when they are tracking such suspicious elements. _ agencies when they are tracking such suspicious elements. unfortunately i suspicious elements. unfortunately we can't _ suspicious elements. unfortunately we can't say— suspicious elements. unfortunately we can't say we _ suspicious elements. unfortunately we can't say we are _ suspicious elements. unfortunately

we can't say we are completely - we can't say we are completely immune — we can't say we are completely immune, because _ we can't say we are completely immune, because we - we can't say we are completely immune, because we need - we can't say we are completely immune, because we need to i immune, because we need to understand _ immune, because we need to understand that _ immune, because we need to understand that the - immune, because we need to understand that the terrorists immune, because we need to - understand that the terrorists also know _ understand that the terrorists also know all— understand that the terrorists also know all this — understand that the terrorists also know all this stuff. _ understand that the terrorists also know all this stuff. they _ understand that the terrorists also know all this stuff. they are - understand that the terrorists also know all this stuff. they are tryingj know all this stuff. they are trying to adjust _ know all this stuff. they are trying to adjust to — know all this stuff. they are trying to adjust to the _ know all this stuff. they are trying to adjust to the new— know all this stuff. they are trying to adjust to the new conditions. i know all this stuff. they are trying i to adjust to the new conditions. but at the _ to adjust to the new conditions. but at the same — to adjust to the new conditions. but at the same time, _ to adjust to the new conditions. but at the same time, it seems- to adjust to the new conditions. but at the same time, it seems to - to adjust to the new conditions. but at the same time, it seems to me i at the same time, it seems to me that the _ at the same time, it seems to me that the targets _ at the same time, it seems to me that the targets change... - at the same time, it seems to me that the targets change... we - at the same time, it seems to me that the targets change... we are j that the targets change... we are definitely— that the targets change... we are definitely lucky— that the targets change... we are definitely lucky in _ that the targets change... we are definitely lucky in europe, - that the targets change... we are definitely lucky in europe, but- that the targets change... we are i definitely lucky in europe, but when you see _ definitely lucky in europe, but when you see what's _ definitely lucky in europe, but when you see what's been _ definitely lucky in europe, but when you see what's been happening - definitely lucky in europe, but when you see what's been happening in i you see what's been happening in other— you see what's been happening in other parts— you see what's been happening in other parts of— you see what's been happening in other parts of the _ you see what's been happening in other parts of the world, - you see what's been happening inl other parts of the world, terrorism didn't— other parts of the world, terrorism didn't disappear. _ other parts of the world, terrorism didn't disappear, and _ other parts of the world, terrorism didn't disappear, and that's - other parts of the world, terrorism didn't disappear, and that's why. didn't disappear, and that's why today, _ didn't disappear, and that's why today, the — didn't disappear, and that's why today. the new— didn't disappear, and that's why today, the new no _ didn't disappear, and that's why today, the new no strategic - didn't disappear, and that's why- today, the new no strategic concept, the threat _ today, the new no strategic concept, the threat nato — today, the new no strategic concept, the threat nato is _ today, the new no strategic concept, the threat nato is facing, _ today, the new no strategic concept, the threat nato is facing, and - the threat nato is facing, and terrorism _ the threat nato is facing, and terrorism is _ the threat nato is facing, and terrorism is one _ the threat nato is facing, and terrorism is one of these. - the threat nato is facing, and terrorism is one of these. important oint. as terrorism is one of these. important point. as president _ terrorism is one of these. important point. as president biden _ terrorism is one of these. important point. as president biden have - terrorism is one of these. important| point. as president biden have said, the threat is changing around the world and nato will need to respond in kind. thank you very much were bringing us the news from paris. abortion rights group asked seeking to stop the enforcement band that took place after roe vs wade was thrown out by the supreme court, a

deeply divisive ruling. the us secretary of health has been giving reaction to the bbc. it�*s secretary of health has been giving reaction to the bbc.— reaction to the bbc. it's amazing, america is — reaction to the bbc. it's amazing, america is moving _ reaction to the bbc. it's amazing, america is moving in _ reaction to the bbc. it's amazing, america is moving in the - reaction to the bbc. it's amazing, j america is moving in the opposite direction to the rest of the world. look at ireland. it is hard to believe america is taking a back—seat, backsliding, when the rest of the world moving to give women the kind of rights they should have had a long time ago or expanding those rights. it is incongruous for me to believe as an american that that is my country right now. american that that is my country ritht now. a, ., ., ., right now. more of that interview on world news — right now. more of that interview on world news america. _ right now. more of that interview on world news america. ian, i - right now. more of that interview on world news america. ian, i would i world news america. ian, iwould your reaction. someone said to me the other day, how is it possible that america can hold the taliban to task and try and pressure them to treat women differently when the united states is taking decisions at home that impact so directly on women�*s health? i home that impact so directly on women's health?— home that impact so directly on women's health? . _ . ., women's health? i am sympathetic to what ou women's health? i am sympathetic to what you are — women's health? i am sympathetic to what you are saying, _ women's health? i am sympathetic to what you are saying, but _ what you are saying, but disappointed that the supreme court

made _ disappointed that the supreme court made the _ disappointed that the supreme court made the ruling that it did... it's a reflection — made the ruling that it did... it's a reflection of the extreme elements in the _ a reflection of the extreme elements in the united states. polling shows that oi% _ in the united states. polling shows that 61% of americans believe that abortion— that 61% of americans believe that abortion ought to be a right. i think— abortion ought to be a right. i think the _ abortion ought to be a right. i think the republican party will pay a price _ think the republican party will pay a price for— think the republican party will pay a price for this in the upcoming elections _ a price for this in the upcoming elections. because not only is there a majority— elections. because not only is there a majority there, this is one of those — a majority there, this is one of thoseissues a majority there, this is one of those issues that get women, maybe a lot of men. _ those issues that get women, maybe a lot of men, but particularly women to the _ lot of men, but particularly women to the polls to vote. so i think the gop is _ to the polls to vote. so i think the gop is in — to the polls to vote. so i think the gop is in for— to the polls to vote. so i think the gop is in for an inflection point based — gop is in for an inflection point based on — gop is in for an inflection point based on this ruling.— gop is in for an inflection point based on this ruling. there is some ”ollin based on this ruling. there is some polling suggesting _ based on this ruling. there is some polling suggesting that _ based on this ruling. there is some polling suggesting that suburban i polling suggesting that suburban women, so crucial at the polls, are stirred by what has happened over recent weeks, so it will be interesting to watch. at last year�*s climate change conference in glasgow, the british government set some pretty strong targets on cutting emissions. but a report out today says it lacks the policy to achieve what it promised. the climate change committee has voiced fears that ministers might

renege on legally binding commitments to achieve net zero by 2050, noting "major policy failures". in its report, the committee said the uk government must do more to drive down energy bills and reduce climate—warming emissions by insulating more homes. but at the moment, the committee says just a third of the governments plans look believable, a quarter might work with a bit of luck, but a third of plans are so bad, the government looks likely to break its ambitious target. we can speak to lord debben, chair of the climate change committee. thank you for sparing us some time. so they spoke about the ends but not the means, which is strange given the means, which is strange given the time we live in, you would think they would be looking at ways to reduce energy consumption and lower bills. ., reduce energy consumption and lower bills. . , ,., bills. that is the point, even if ou bills. that is the point, even if you don't— bills. that is the point, even if you don't want _ bills. that is the point, even if you don't want to _ bills. that is the point, even if you don't want to deal - bills. that is the point, even if you don't want to deal with i bills. that is the point, even if- you don't want to deal with climate you don�*t want to deal with climate change, you would have thought they wanted to deal with the cost of living crisis. so what you need to

do is to move as fast as possible to renewable energy, which is now the cheapest way to produce electricity, onshore, offshore, wind and photovoltaics. and you would think they would be supporting people trying to insulate their homes so that they use less energy. and then they should also be saying that when you build a new house, it ought to be energy efficient. but none of these things are happening. tats be energy efficient. but none of these things are happening. as you sa the these things are happening. as you say the greatest — these things are happening. as you say the greatest failures _ these things are happening. as you say the greatest failures in - these things are happening. as you say the greatest failures in the - say the greatest failures in the insulation policy, british homes are the most draughty in europe, but anyone trying to cut out some building work will know it is jolly expensive. so who has the money to insulate their houses right now? tbs, insulate their houses right now? lot of people can do quite a lot, actually, in a cost—effective way, let�*s not kid ourselves about that. but a lot or poorer people who you particularly want to help... local authorities are doing a very good

job. —— is a lot of. the government needs to increase the money it provides to them, and they can do a great deal to improve the housing conditions of the poorest. we also need a system whereby people can easily borrow money and then pay it back out of the benefits which they get from the reduced cost of energy. and then we also need a programme of actually helping people who wouldn�*t be able to do that, who are not the poorest, something in between, which we need a sort of green deal to do that. that would be the best way of reducing the effect of the cost of living crisis while at the same time fighting climate change. you living crisis while at the same time fighting climate change.— fighting climate change. you say it's a political, _ fighting climate change. you say it's a political, psychological- it�*s a political, psychological problem, that somehow politicians don�*t see energy efficiency as something they can claim credit for, they can win votes for? is it really down to the government, though? we

always say the government needs to do more, but there is a finite amount of money, so where is the private sector in this?— private sector in this? the private sector will come _ private sector in this? the private sector will come up _ private sector in this? the private sector will come up with - private sector in this? the private sector will come up with a - private sector in this? the private sector will come up with a great i sector will come up with a great deal of money if only the government would have the parameters to enable them to do that. what i keep on saying it is very simply that the money is there. the government has to do is to provide a programme which enables people to borrow money from the private sector, but to know that if something goes wrong, the government is standing behind them, that the first thing. secondly, people need the information to know what it is that they need to do. most people want to do the right thing, but don�*t know what to do about their homes, and that�*s why we need a government information programme which means you can bring somebody up and say look, i�*m on a semi detached house on this street, what sort of thing should i be doing, can i get some advice, can i doing, can i get some advice, can i do this, where do i get the money?

there is a lot of money in the private sector, as long as you have a system in order to link into it, and then you can have green mortgages, there is no reason at all why the mortgage companies, the banks and the rest of it, cannot provide a lot of this money, if only the government would stand behind them and have a programme which makes that sensible. fiuch them and have a programme which makes that sensible.— makes that sensible. such an important — makes that sensible. such an important message. - makes that sensible. such an - important message. governments as you say have to get it right, and so many of their worldwide are not turning to renewables but returning to coal. in fact there is a decision pending in the uk for a new coal mine in cumbria. what sort of message would it send if that was given the green light next month? that would be totally unacceptable, a coal mine proposed by an australian company in cumbria, and they say it would be helpful for the steel industry. absolute nonsense. they are going to export 80% of production at least. the steel

industry, by the time we get to 2035, they will need to move to hydrogen or carbon capture and storage with gas, they will need a certain very, very small amount of coalfor a particular certain very, very small amount of coal for a particular central issue, but certainly not something that you�*ve got to produce from a coalmine in cumbria. if the government were to give the go—ahead to the coal in cumbria, it would be a very serious statement about their inability to understand what we have to do. maybe you could stay, lord debben, and give us your thoughts on this next story. but hanna, clearly the less you spend, the more you spend on renewables, the less you will spend on russian oil and gas? for renewables, the less you will spend on russian oil and gas?— on russian oil and gas? for sure, but problem _ on russian oil and gas? for sure, but problem number _ on russian oil and gas? for sure, but problem number one - on russian oil and gas? for sure, but problem number one that. on russian oil and gas? for sure, but problem number one that we | on russian oil and gas? for sure, - but problem number one that we used to rely on those resources, and as a

result from time to time we are getting the crises. but getting only one resource, from the russian federation, most of the industry has been so reluctant for the modernisation, thinking about how they can upgrade manufacturing to make it more energy efficient, better in terms of the environment... because it was suitable and quite cheap, they didn�*t want to upgrade and modernise, and as we know, in eight years of this war, we have really noticed that only the companies that made the decision eight years ago to upgrade and modernise, not to be dependent on russian energy sources, they have the double victory. being not that dependent when russia is misbehaving, but also being much more responsible in terms of the environment and sustainability. indeed. there is an oak tree — there was an oak tree — in bretton in peterborough, which had stood

for hundreds of years. but just after two o�*clock this afternoon, contractors with chainsaws and chippers arrived to take it down. campaigners say the oak is 600 years old. and the reason it has been chopped is because peterborough city council says it is most likely the cause of structural damage within several nearby properties. that is disputed by campaigners. but their argument fell on deaf ears. ido i do have some sympathy, lord debben, with residents whose foundations are in peril, but is it like to be chopping down a 600—year—old oak tree? like to be chopping down a 600-year-old oak tree? well, i don't know the details _ 600-year-old oak tree? well, i don't know the details of _ 600-year-old oak tree? well, i don't know the details of this _ 600-year-old oak tree? well, i don't know the details of this particular - know the details of this particular case, but i do have to say that we really do have to recognise our debt to nature, and need to live much more closely with nature. i would be asking questions about why they

built those new houses nearby. i would be asking, how on earth did people not think about those things a long time ago? my issue is very simple. we are not going to save the world in the sense of stopping climate change, damaging our ability to live on this planet, if we don�*t learn again the importance of biodiversity, living with nature, understanding that nature is what we depend upon. unless we do that, then we are actually signing our own death warrants, and we have to say right from the beginning that each single case, and this is a single case and i don�*t know the details, so there may be some particular reason why this is possible, but in general, each single case of destroying our natural environment weakens our own selves, makes us

more vulnerable, destroys our ability to be resilient, and we�*ve got to learn that. we ability to be resilient, and we've got to learn that. we must, must live in harmony _ got to learn that. we must, must live in harmony with _ got to learn that. we must, must live in harmony with our - got to learn that. we must, must live in harmony with our planet, i live in harmony with our planet, thatis live in harmony with our planet, that is the message. lord debben, thank you so much for coming on the programme. if you were watching the programme yesterday you�*ll know were talking about the love—in at the g7. the bromance that broke between boris johnson and emmanuel macron. compare that with the kasabian summit, less romance and more bromide! the tables seem to be getting longer. —— with the caspian summit. now he has tables that

practically stretch a continent. what do you think is going on? i imagine there are security agents looking at some of these pictures of the way president putin is behaving and it stokes these concerns about his health. i and it stokes these concerns about his health. , ., ., _, .,, his health. i “ust have to contrast the imagery — his health. ijust have to contrast the imagery of — his health. ijust have to contrast the imagery of joe _ his health. ijust have to contrast the imagery of joe biden - his health. ijust have to contrast the imagery of joe biden sitting i the imagery ofjoe biden sitting with the — the imagery ofjoe biden sitting with the heads of state from the uk, france, _ with the heads of state from the uk, france, italy and the other members of the _ france, italy and the other members of the 30 _ france, italy and the other members of the 30 state nato alliance. in the course — of the 30 state nato alliance. in the course of that summit, i believe the course of that summit, i believe the japanese, australian, korean heads _ the japanese, australian, korean heads of— the japanese, australian, korean heads of state were there. that's a gathering _ heads of state were there. that's a gathering of real power. and they are sitting — gathering of real power. and they are sitting all together, all violating the covid regulations. it's a _ violating the covid regulations. it's a romance, brothers and sisters sitting _ it's a romance, brothers and sisters sitting together, it is unity and power — sitting together, it is unity and power. and you look at these pictures— power. and you look at these pictures of president putin on his travels— pictures of president putin on his

travels to — pictures of president putin on his travels to turkmenistan and kyrgyzstan, it's quite a power gathering where... and as you pointed — gathering where... and as you pointed out, the image of these huge distances _ pointed out, the image of these huge distances at the same table, that is not conveying russian leadership, it's not— not conveying russian leadership, it's not conveying unity under russian — it's not conveying unity under russian leadership, and it's not conveying — russian leadership, and it's not conveying confidence that putin has in his— conveying confidence that putin has in his quote unquote, closest allies — in his quote unquote, closest allies he _ in his quote unquote, closest allies. he is not even willing to them — allies. he is not even willing to them it— allies. he is not even willing to them it is— allies. he is not even willing to them. it is an insight into the balance — them. it is an insight into the balance of— them. it is an insight into the balance of power between putin, his allies— balance of power between putin, his allies and _ balance of power between putin, his allies and the west. it is balance of power between putin, his allies and the west.— allies and the west. it is a shrinking _ allies and the west. it is a shrinking family _ allies and the west. it is a shrinking family photo. i allies and the west. it is a i shrinking family photo. what allies and the west. it is a - shrinking family photo. what do you make of these long tables, hanna? just a wonderful proof of paranoia. we have _ just a wonderful proof of paranoia. we have been— just a wonderful proof of paranoia. we have been talking _ just a wonderful proof of paranoia. we have been talking about - just a wonderful proof of paranoia. we have been talking about it - we have been talking about it since the beginning — we have been talking about it since the beginning of— we have been talking about it since the beginning of covid. _ we have been talking about it since the beginning of covid. originally. the beginning of covid. originally paranoia — the beginning of covid. originally paranoia about— the beginning of covid. originally paranoia about the _ the beginning of covid. originally paranoia about the pandemic, . the beginning of covid. originallyl paranoia about the pandemic, and the beginning of covid. originally- paranoia about the pandemic, and we know that _ paranoia about the pandemic, and we know that putin — paranoia about the pandemic, and we know that putin didn't _ paranoia about the pandemic, and we know that putin didn't allow - paranoia about the pandemic, and we know that putin didn't allow anyone i know that putin didn't allow anyone to be _ know that putin didn't allow anyone to be near— know that putin didn't allow anyone to be near him _ know that putin didn't allow anyone to be near him without _ know that putin didn't allow anyone to be near him without authority. know that putin didn't allow anyone to be near him without authority inl to be near him without authority in advance _ to be near him without authority in advance and — to be near him without authority in advance and now— to be near him without authority in advance and now the _

to be near him without authority in advance and now the paranoia - to be near him without authority in advance and now the paranoia hasl advance and now the paranoia has 'ust advance and now the paranoia has just continued _ advance and now the paranoia has just continued.— just continued. hanna, ian, lovely to have your— just continued. hanna, ian, lovely to have your company. _ just continued. hanna, ian, lovely to have your company. thank - just continued. hanna, ian, lovely to have your company. thank you | just continued. hanna, ian, lovely. to have your company. thank you for watching, we will be back the same time tomorrow. good night. hello there. well, we�*ve got an area of low pressure that�*s with us at the moment, bringing unsettled weather conditions for the rest of this week. wednesday was a showery day. some places dodged the worst of the showers, while others took a direct hit with some heavy falls of rain. now, taking a look at the radar picture from wednesday, we can see a random scattering of showers for many areas. but across the south west of england, we have this line that developed. that was due to the winds bashing together, a convergence then formed and for some across inland areas, the showers were really widespread and frequent. whereas around the coasts of devon and cornwall, not so many showers. now taking a look at the charts into thursday, we�*ve got some cloud that�*s coming up from northwest france that�*s going to be bringing some rain to eastern scotland to start the day. and this is the jet stream pattern.

we�*ve got a trough that�*s moving slowly eastwards across the uk. this encourages the air to rise, and so the day�*s showers on thursday are going to be much more heavy in nature, with hail and thunder much more widespread as well. so, an unsettled day weather—wise. quite a few of you starting off with a dry start. however, we do have that zone of rain for eastern and then northern areas of scotland. the rain quite heavy for a time. showers develop widely into the afternoon. again, there�*ll be a convergence zone across the south. this time, slightly different wind direction, the showers tend to work across into central, southern england, areas like reading could see a direct hit. eastern areas of england seeing the highest temperatures, but some of the showers will be heavy with some hail and thunder around as well. now, thursday night, the showers will tend to fade away for most areas for a time. we could see some rain returning across the north sea into eastern and north—eastern areas of scotland on friday, but for the most part, at least, friday starts off on a mild note.

so, there�*s that potential area of rain affecting north east scotland friday. further west, another area of low pressure is going to be moving across the british isles, so it�*s another unsettled day. i suppose one of the main differences weather—wise is although it�*s showery again in nature, the showers are going to be blown along by a stiff west to south—westerly wind. so that means the showers won�*t be as slow—moving in nature, but they could still be pretty heavy where they form. and again thouse showers are going to be quite widespread, so many of you will see a downpour or at least a big shower cloud passing on the horizon. temperatures not really changing very much at the moment day by day. now, we take to look at the weekend�*s forecast. the dregs of that weather front push eastwards, then slowly for the second half of the weekend, we start to see this ridge of high pressure try to move in off the atlantic. saturday, then, looks like being another fairly unsettled day with showers or even some longer spells of rain across north—western areas of the country. again, it�*s quite breezy, so any showers that do form won�*t hang around for too long and most of you will at least see some bright or sunny spells for a time.

similar kind of temperatures, the highest temperatures across parts of east anglia. sunday, the weather shows signs of settling down from the south and west as that ridge builds in. so, wales, south west england probably having the best of the dry weather and sunshine, but most of us will at least have bright or sunny spells at times with showers becoming far fewer and not as heavy either. temperatures peaking at about 23 degrees. after that, as we look at the forecast into it next week, that area of high pressure establishes more widely across the country. and so the weather will settle down and become drier with more in the way of sunshine, and there�*s a tendency for it to get warmer as well, with temperatures pushing into the mid—20s as we head towards the middle part of next week. that�*s your weather.

tonight at ten: a marked change in nato�*s approach to dealing with russian aggression. at their summit in madrid, leaders of the military alliance declare russia to be a �*direct threat�* to their countries�* security. during the day new images emerged confirming that a russian cruise missile was deployed to hit a shopping centre in ukraine. putin has shattered peace in europe and attacked the very, very tenets of rule—based order. the united states and our allies are going to step up. we�*ll have details of the nato meeting, where more us troops and equipment were committed to ukraine. also tonight... beans no longer mean heinz at tesco because of a pricing dispute. and ketchup and tomato soup are also off the shelves.