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tv   Cyber Siege  BBC News  May 31, 2025 4:30pm-5:00pm BST

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'i've been some pretty terrible places in the last six months, you darf war through damascus just after the fall of the assad regime, i was in mandelet just after the earthquake, i was in afghanistan a couple of weeks ago, gaza is by far the worse, and i'd entered from the north, i'd been in neiro's kibut meeting survivors of that hamas terrorist attack on october the 7th, and then you cross in and there's just desolation for miles, and the person with me, the colleague with me'. said, where's where where were you living? and she said, i don't know, i'd need gps to find my home, because there are no landmarks to navigate by, and we were driving along, and i said, the dogs are fat, and she said, it's cuz they're eating the corpses and everyone who is working there right now is corroded as i feel by the sights and the smell, you know, you've been in war zones, you know how...
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that feels, it has a particular feel that never leaves you, and for me that experience of driving through gaza, staying overnight there in a house, in a safe house that was later bombed by the israelis, a un house, you know, that experience will never leave me. your reaction to the latest events, we've seen people storming, a warehouse, shots being fired, people are dying. when you look at those images, what? do you think? we're dealing with a desperate starving population. this has gone on for over a year and a half now, massive levels of trauma. everyone i met in gaza, including our own our own people, are traumatized. and, now they've gone 80 days of the blockade without that food getting in until any food at all, until 10 days ago. so the kitchens, our community kitchens had run dry, they'd closed down, the bakeries had stopped serving, and so those levels.
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of famin and starvation are all around them and it's no surprise actually that they are so desperate to get to the little food and it really is only a a trickle of food that we're being allowed to get in. well the israel say they have to do it their way because hamas are stealing the aid. there's very very little uh stealing of aid by hamas. what we're seeing is some armed groups that operate in there's a no man's land as you know as you come through karem shalom and th those have been operating with impunity in that space hitting. our trucks, particularly during the seasfire, but most of our aid is getting through. now is some of that aid then getting to market and being stolen by hamas from market or board and market, now there's always a risk of that. in such a complex, contested, militarized environment, we can't minimize that risk completely, but i saw you know just recently that the previous us coordinator speaking out and and saying himself that a tiny amount uh was being stolen by hamas, now a tiny amount is still too much.
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'i don't want to see any of that aid getting to hamas, that matters to us, because these are our principles, neutral, impartiality, independent, so it's in our interests to stop that aid getting to hamas and ensure it gets to civilians. is there any sign that the israelis will relent and allow you to distribute aid? we work every day, we're in those meetings, we sit with israelis every day, convoy by convoy, truck by truck, sack of wheat by sack of wheat, and we'll keep on working to get - as possible, we have that aid on the border to feed everyone in gaza for all the civilians for months, we could get that in, and we're desperate to do so, but we've got to have that full blockade lifted, we've got to have the impediments removed, we'll keep hoping and we'll keep trying. why don't they let you distribute aid? there were lots of bureaucratic impediments, there are lots of security checks, we go through several checks on everything that goes through the border, it's a question you have to ask them,
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what do you think? well they they were telling us that during those 80 days we wouldn't be able to bring that aid in because they needed to increase the pressure on hamas in particular. so what do you describe that as? look, i want to get those hostages out as much as anyone else. uh, and we were making progress during the seasfire. uh, it's vitally important that they get home. mediation negotiation gets them out for starvation of a whole population, which is what ministers in israel are saying. okay, it doesn't matter, doesn't matter what i say, it's what they're saying out loud, they're doing to increase that pressure on hamas, i don't think that's going to work, i think is mediation and negotiations that has worked and will work. to be clear, what we are seeing is the forced starvation of the population. we're seeing food sat on the borders and not being allowed in when there is a population on the other side of the border that is starving, and we're hearing israeli ministers say that is to put pressure on the population of gaza, now we we just want to work.
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"we have a plan to deliver, we just want to get in, that's a war crime, isn't it? if you use food as a weapon. yeah, it is, it is classified as a war crime. obviously these are issues for the courts to take the judgment on, and ultimately for history to take a judgement." as a humanitarian, my interest is just in getting as much of that aid in as possible, as quickly as possible, and saving as many lives as we're allowed to do in the time we have. i i understand that the humanitarian perspective, um, but you've been in there, you're the one who's watching exactly what's happening every day. you're the one to went to the security council and called on them to prevent genocide. i i need you to be frank with me here, do you believe that what we are witnessing? is uh war crimes, so we have these two mandates, one to get as much aid in as possible and save as many lives, and the other is to report what we see, to speak truth to power, and we feel that particularly strongly because you can't get it, the international media aren't there, we are your eyes and
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ears, we're the eyes and ears of the international community, and it's important for us therefore to say what we see, and our teams are there, we have hundreds of people on the ground reporting to us, of course we've had over 300 colleagues killed, in gaza ourselves and what they are reporting is force displacement, they're reporting starvation, they're reporting torture, and they're reporting deaths on a massive scale. now, when i went to the security council, i chose my words very, very carefully, and i'm choosing them again carefully, now i wanted to issue a warning to the security council that in previous cases, rwanda, sabrenica, sri lanka, the world had told us afterwards that we didn't act in time, that we didn't sound the warning. and ask that the world respond to prevent genocide, and that's my call to the security council and the world right now, will you act to prevent genocide? do you see any sign that they will? we did see uh a an upsurge in pressure in the last few weeks,
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i think in response to that sense of the force starvation that we've been seeing, i think in response to what israeli ministers have been saying publicly, so there has... in that switch in international opinion. i saw it in the security council, so immediately after i spoke, 14 members came in very strongly behind me with with solidarity and support for the message that i shared. i hope the world is listening, there is a key conference in paris at the end of the month, which will be one demonstration of whether they've heard that message and how they're responding, and look everyone, from president trump to the pope, to the elders, to world leaders is saying. saying, let us work, let us get the aid in that we have to get in, and that's that's what we're asking for here. why do you think they want? you have to ask them, i mean what we do, and they say they want to to defeat hamas and they also said on the 22nd of may, kogat, the group that you deal with, the israeli
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military group that looks after aid, said on the 22nd of may there was no food shortage in gaza, there are massive food shortages in gaza, and when we've got a bit of... in the last 10 days, but it's a fraction of what we were even getting in during the cease fire when we were getting 600, 700 trucks a day, we now to do this, this is our day job, we deliver aid in tough conditions, and we want to do it there, and what's getting in now is a tiny fraction of what's needed, and the entire population of gaza, two million people is at risk of starvation right now, we've got to get the aid in. israel's minister of finance, mr. smotric said of the people of gaza, they will be totally despairing under. standing that there's no hope and nothing to look for in gaza, and will be looking for relocation to begin a new life in other places. how would you characterize that language? i mean, so out loud israeli ministers have been saying that they want the population of gaza to be relocated. is that ethnic
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cleansing? it's the force removal of a population. and in this case, by withholding of aid. now again, the courts will judge what to call that, and i have to pick my words very very. "i'm a humanitarian, i'm not a lawyer, i'm not a politician, i studied history, but in this case i'm not a historian. my job is to get that aid in and to think really carefully about what i say in order to maximize our chances of doing that. should mr. netanyahu be disavowing such statements by his ministers? absolutely. we would expect governments all over the world to stand for international humanitarian law. the international community is very, very clear on that. it's been outspoken throughout the international community, that that those principles must be..." upheled and so that's a clear call to the prime minister of israel to ensure that this this language and ultimately this policy of displacement of forced displacement isn't enacted. on the other hand you have former israeli prime ministerod saying and a member as he was of of mr. netanyahu's liquid party, what
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we are doing in gaza now is a war of devastation, indiscriminate, limitless, cruel and criminal killing of civilians. is there any? there you disagree with, so that's not my choice of words, but they are chilling words and i've worked with prime minister olmat in the past, when i was working for prime ministers. and uh so i know that he wouldn't have said those words lightly. i think what i'm hearing from people in israel, friends in israel, colleagues i work with, people i'm in touch with every day, including those in those kaboots in is that desire to get the hostages out to get the aid in, get the cease fire and end this conflict. i think there is that rising pressure inside israel, and look, it's not for me to get involved in israeli politics. there are many uh bare traps there. yeah, but i hope to hear those voices louder and louder, calling for restraint, calling for respect for international
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law, and calling ultimately for the killing to stop. didn't you damage your own case when you talked about 14,000 babies dying within 48 hours, pretty big guff? i think we've got to be very, very careful with our numbers, we've got to be precise, and that's a lesson that that i've learned in the last couple of weeks. are you sorry for that? i really, i, i regret that i use that 48. was because in reality, those deaths will take place over a longer time, but they are at risk, and at the point when i made those comments, we were desperately trying to get that aid in, we were being told we couldn't get it in, and we knew that we'd probably have a couple of days a window to get as much aid in as possible, and that was being denied, and we were desperate to get that in, and so yeah, we've got to betterly precise with our language, and we've clarified that, i would encourage everyone to read the reports where it spellt out in black and white the... number of people at risk of starvation and the numbers of people have been killed already and make a judgment for
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themselves as to what we should do, because when people take that and along with the statement about thousands of trucks lined up on the border not being able to get in, the risk is looking like a hype merchant, there is that risk, and there there is a risk you when we're out there using these big numbers and they are overwhelming numbers, we've got provisions to fill 10,00 trucks and get them in, that can feed everyone in gaza, all the civilians for... several months and that's the real point here, we arguing over where those trucks are, which borders they're on, we want all those border crossings to open and we can get that aid in at massive massive scale, we know how to do it, so yes we have to be really careful and really precise in our language, and that is especially me, particularly me, but i'm not going to stop stop speaking up for the need to save these lives in gaza to save as many survivors as possible, that's my job and i've got to do it better and... will do it, when you see how the people that you are trying to help in gaza are treated, do you believe that the israeli
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generals and politicians responsible for policy in gaza regard them as human beings. what i really worry about at the moment is is a dehumanization, and we see the humans, we're interacting with them every day, and we have to... tain that sense that a palestinian life matters as much as as an israeli life, and israeli life matters as much as a palestinian life. do you think israeli politicians who are running this war believe that? well, i listen to some of the statements that are made by some of the some of the ministers and they're clearly using language which is dehumanizing, that isn't seeing palestinian lives as as important as israely lives. let's be clear of course, on the other side, hamas use that dehumanizing language as well, and we've got to keep on calling out hamas's war crimes. including hostage taking, but somewhere in the midst of all this, we have to be able to see each other's common humanity.
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this applies to all of the crises that we're dealing with, we're living in this moment of impunity and indifference to each other, and we have to to rediscover that sense of human solidarity, human empathy, human kindness, even in this more transactional moment. and other things that you're as a kind of un diplomat restricted from saying, because you need to keep... lines and avenues open, do you think mr. netanyahu wants this war to end? i i'm certain he wants to get the hostages home, of course he does, and he's every right to want to get them home uh uh, we all want to see those hostages freedom back with their with their families. i don't know now what the aim of this war is anymore, i think it has clearly gone beyond just the hostage releases uh, there's a lot of talk about. finishing off hamas and clearly uh, as as many people have said, there can't be a part for hamas in the new equation, the new
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governance of of gaza and the palestinian territories, but what is the end game here? i mean, that's the question the world is asking, where does this end, when does this stop, and how can we get back to a scenario where we have some chance of getting security, justice, opportunity for israelis and palestinians, now for me, look, i, i, i don't - i'm a season diplomat, but i've been dealing with these issues now for 30 years, working on what we used to call the middle east peace process, and i don't believe that that central idea is the wrong one, two states. coexisting side by side with security justice opportunity for palestinians and israelis. i've never heard a better idea than that, but maybe maybe prims and yahoo has got one. well, 22 new settlements in the west bank. what does that tell you? i drove around the west bank as part of my my visit to the region in in january and even since the last time i visited to see those
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facts on the ground changing, to see that forced displacement, the levels of settler violence. if it wasn't for what's happening in gaza. "this would be a major news story right now, but it's it's happening around us, the the changes to land ownership, there's a real effort underway now to move palestinians away from homes that they've lived in for decades, and that really undermines the prospects of that two-state solution, and i would say that's very dangerous for the whole region. i come back to gaza at the end, but i want to ask you about ukraine, now you're due to have a meeting with..." russians, i believe soon, what will you be saying to them? so i'll be in moscow on sunday, monday and i'll see the prime minister uh lavrov, and we'll be talking about number of issues, we'll be talking, i'm sure about sudan, we'll be talking about gaza, we talking of course about ukraine, i visited ukraine uh earlier this year, went right up to the frontline, saw the harm that's being done there to civilians, visited the damage
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that's been done by russian strikes, we've got to find a way to end this offensive to ensure that security returns for those civilians on the ground in ukraine, and so i'm sure we'll be having some some robust conversations about the situation and about our hope that we can get back to some sort of peace process, that's clearly what we all need to see, but one that is just and that retains that sense of ukrainian sovereignty at his heart. do you think they'll pay any attention to you? let's wait and see, i think many oters. the... past record wouldn't suggest that, i think many people with a louder voice than mine uh, with much more power than me have gone and made that case, i'm not uh, i'm not suggesting that i'll get somewhere that others haven't. it's very important to me to have a conversation with russia as a permanent member of the security council about geopolitics as well, it won't just be about ukraine, there are there are areas where we're in
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very close contact with them, our teams on the ground, so we'll be covering a range of those issues and as well as ukraine, but i wouldn't want to overc. him for one visit changing policy, well you do raise the point of of multiple crises around the globe at the moment, and an international order that i put to you is broken, the security council has never been more divided, never been more incapable through either will or ability to deal with the the situation we're in, it's a profoundly dangerous moment, profoundly dangerous and we really need to drive this home to people. the security council is polarized, divided, that means it makes it much harder for us to end conflicts, the conflicts we're dealing with are more ferocious, there's more impunity and they're lasting longer, it's getting harder and harder to end wars, and we humanitarians then we deal with the consequences, because we effectively drive the the ambulance or the fire engine
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on behalf of the world that goes back towards these conflict zones to save as many survivors as possible, but are overstretched, underresorced, literally under attack. in a world where america is has moved into an isolationist phase, and where funding for international agencies like the un is being cut back, america's own international aid efforts cut back. surely you're in a very, very parilous position now. we as the un are in a paris position for sure, and that's why we've embarked on a big bold transformation program, i've just come from a meeting with senior colleagues. meanwhile, on the humanitarian side, the cuts are huge. i met women in afghanistan in kundus, who lost their children in the last few weeks because they've had to cycle three hours to the nearest hospital because the clinic has closed down because of cuts, so they're biting right now. and look, the americans led the humanitarian effort. let's
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be honest, for decades. american taxpayer money has saved hundreds of millions of lives. that time, but 47% of our appeals were us funded, and that's a massive hole, huge hole in what we're doing, so huge reform program underway, resetting the humanitarian system, it will become probably a third smaller at least, we're getting rid of layers of bureaucracy, layers of duplication, we're trying to put local people, local communities at the heart of what we do, but yeah, absolutely, this has all got even harder, and it's going to get harder in the future because... "the real problem, by the way, is not just this transactional geopolitical moment that you describe, it's climate change, which is coming at us and will drive massive migration out of areas that humans have lived in. for millennia, it's the combination of that with existing crisis and conflict and existing poverty and equality and inequality, and all of the time when this scaffolding
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around the international order that that as you described is getting wobbly, it's very, very fragile, and we built that scaffolding, what international order? well, we're clinging on, but still there, the security council is still meeting, we're still functioning, we're still saving tens of millions of lives every year, we want to reach over 300 million. we won't get close to that because of these cuts, we're having to hyper prioritize the lives we can save, but we're still out there doing that, we're still out there functioning, and one thing we're seeing, and i hope that i'm not clutching it straws here, i'm always going to be the last idealist in the room, i fear, the last optimist in the council chamber, but we're seeing more countries step forward and saying, okay, if america is stepping to one side from this order, and i've said you don't build a golden age by retreating. leadership, but if they are stepping to one side, let's be clear that this isn't just an american order, it's these are our values, this is our international system, and maybe others will come in and share more of that leadership burden.
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an argument could be made that the un should swallow its pride and work with the gaza humanitarian foundation, this israeli-american um operation. what do you say? we've got a better plan and... we've delivered it, 600, 700 trucks a day during that 42 day cease fire, we reached hundreds of thousands of people, we got aid to almost everyone in gaza in that period uh, so we know how to do this, and you know we're doing this, you've seen us do this all over the world, this is out, this is our job, it's our day job, uh, let us do it, let us have that unimpeded aid that everyone is demanding, and we'll deliver, we'll deliver a scale, and we we will make sure everyone gets fed in gaza, even in these... terrible, terrible conditions. now, i've set out the objections to these other militarized hubs, we've got to be really careful here, we can't allow aid to be a tool for displacement and
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dehumanization, and there's a real risk here, but also we've got to guard these principles, it's not just about gaza, however horrific what we're seeing in gaza is, if we conceed these values about impartial aid, neutral aid, independent aid in gaza, then you watch tomorrow will be conceeding them in sudan, conceeding them in ukraine and it will be a further erosion of the way in which the world demands that we deliver humanitarian aid, so that's why we have to stick to our principles. how will history judge how the international community has responded to gaza? that's the question i wanted to put to the security council, and i mean you have 19 months now to to make an assessment, how will history judge how we have acted over the last 19 months? "history will judge us, uh, i think that history will be tough in the way it judges us, and it must be. uh, i think that a lot
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of what we've been seeing has been telegraphed, it's been announced in advance. we can't say we didn't know what was happening, we can't say that when the international media were denied the ability to cover it, that that shouldn't have sounded an alarm. we can't say, and the world can't say that we weren't reporting this." you now, we'll take the criticism, we'll take the attacks for doing that, but we've been there on the ground from the beginning as we instructed, mandated to do by the world, telling you what we're seeing. you now, in gaza, i went to alalda hospital, and most of it's destroyed. i met some of the surviving medics, most have been killed, and on the wall of that hospital, one of the doctors who's subsequently been killed, had written, tell them we did what we could, and all i'm asking is for the international community to be able to say, tell them, we did what we could, that's what we're trying to do,
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and nothing we get thrown at us will stop us doing that, but the international community in your view, outside of what your agency is trying to do, hasn't done what it could do, it can definitely do more, i mean that we could we could have that sense of unequivocal pressure for for a cease fire. "we need to have those demands for the hostage releases out there unequivocally and consistently, we have to hear that demand, the insistence on aid getting through to save as many of the survivors as as we can reach right now, and that demand for international law for the killing to stop. you that was my message to the security council, it was a request that israel stop the killing, a request that hamas release the hostages now, unconditionally, and a request that the security." and the international community do their job and hold us all to account for what's happening. thank you very much. thank you.
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britain is under attack every day, it's become a national crisis, the disruption was massive, devastating, the enemy is hidden, we are everywhere and nowhere, cyber criminals are hacking in to our local authorities, one of the worst hit, a small council overseeing the community of redc. and east cleveland and you actually feel quite helpless. redcore and cleveland council services were affected for months. yes, the councils, the big businesses, they should be prepared for things like this. they're not the ones that's actually being targeted, it's the little people. with many other public services in england coming under attack, we track down one of the russian hacking gangs and we investigate whether more of the...
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vital infrastructure could be at risk of a catastrophic cyber siege. the us is embracing cryptocurrencies like never before, but will the trump family's crypto ties end up doing more harm than good? we hear from a top regulator and the world's biggest bitcoin miner. join me, the questa burek on talking business here on bbc news. the trial of an australian woman accused of murdering three of her relatives. by serving them a lunch containing toxic mushrooms, is drawing to a close. aaron patterson denies all charges against her for more on a case that's gained attention both here and across the world. join me, katie watson on bbc news. we speak to one of the most influential newspaper editors in the us. joe khan is the executive editor of the new york times. we talk about president trump's love-hate relationship with the media, the craft of journalism and...
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it's all on the media show on bbc news. i think the first signs that i wanted to be a journalist were when as a kid i started making pretend reports in my back garden. i always liked asking a lot of questions. but as i grew up i wanted to be part of trying to explain why things happen. i've had a lots of different jobs in journalism. what i've learned is that it's always about the... people that are at the heart of these stories, how they're affected. the wildfires was a story i was living through myself. it is really hard to comprehend how life is ever going to get back to normal here, overwhelming for so many people in the city, and it was affecting everyone's day-to-day lives and i was going to bed at night not really knowing what i was going to wake up to the next day. the fires were burning right around us, so we were having to take split second decisions about how to gather pictures and tell this story. this helicopters flying, just above.
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just dropping water now trying to keep those flames at bay. it was tearing through everything. i knew thousands of people were leaving their homes and we're probably never going to get to go back to them. and in the middle of that chaos i had to find ways to talk to people about what they were experiencing. there was my house. that's all gone. i think hearing one person's story helps viewers trust what they're hearing. because when you can empathize with one person's experience it helps you get an und standing of the bigger picture.
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live from london, this is bbc news. hamas has responded to a u.s. proposal for a cease fire in gaza, laying out new proposals on the exchange of hostages and prisoners. israel has yet to respond. the un's nuclear watchdog warns that iran has drastically stepped up its production of highly enriched uranium needed for the production of nuclear weapons. the us defense. calls on asian nations to boost military spending to deal with what he says is the growing threat from china. we're live in poland on the eve of the country's presidential elections, whoever wins decides the future direction of this country. authorities in nigeria

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