tv With All Due Respect Bloomberg March 16, 2016 8:00pm-9:01pm EDT
mark: i am mark halperin. and i am a john heilemann. you are in the no debate zone. president obama announced that he is nominating judge merrick garland. he has previously enjoyed support for both parties. he investigated a bombing two decades ago, and we used to read comic books, but now we are -- he relaxes by reading stuff about constitutional law. the president pressed senate
republicans to give him a fair shake even know it is an election year. president obama: to suggest that some one who has served his country with honor and in any with a distinguished track record of delivering justice for the american people might beat treated as one republican leader stated, as a political piñata, that cannot be right. judge garland will meet with senators one-on-one. i simply asked republicans and the senate to give him a fair hearing. and then, an up or down vote. john: the stand up -- standoff has been going on for weeks, ever since justice antonin scalia passed away. leaders from both parties dug in their heels including senate majority leader mitch mcconnell who according to a statement called garland and said the senate would "revisit the matter
when the president nominates someone and wished him well. he also said this on the senate for. >> is the constitutional right to nominate a soup in car justice and it is the senate's constitutional right to act as a check on a president and withhold its consent. president obama and his allies may now try to pretend this disagreement is about a person. ownas i just noted, his vice president made it clear, it is not. it seems clear that president obama made this nomination not with the intent of seeing a nominate confirmed, but in order to politicize it for purposes of the election. john: mark, conventional wisdom was before this pick, that obama is trying to pick somebody the republicans are fighting hard to snuff. -- snubbed. how is it working out? mark: better than i thought. i thought of the president went with a nominee had a more compelling resume and personal
garland is more compelling than i thought. crack's ining a few the firm and it -- firmament. republican dust in credit strategists believe the key is the chairman of the judiciary committee, senator grassley. they both still are digging in saying no hearing, no reason to even meet. but i believe the democrats are right. they may be able to get grassley to flip and hold a hearing one step at a time if they can get a hearing. they can get him confirmed so the key is grassley and the early signs, grassley has not moved, other republicans have. >> we have seen susan collins and kelly i ought. some are public into her up for reelection recognize that being in transit be a political problem and look, merrick harland is a constant washington
insider. this is a rare moment where barack obama is playing the beltway inside game. he has conservative friends including john roberts and has worked with her pelicans on the is if you did this were not going to pick someone like ryan sandoval, this is the closest you can do to make republicans in this town feel uncomfortable about not giving this guy his due. a lot of -- i think the president has done a pretty smart pick for a variety of reasons. we will talk more about this aat you can see there is not lockstep thing. not everyone is falling in line with mitch mcconnell right off the bat. grassley faults. it is safe to assume that his wikipedia page has gotten a major update. a harvardroduced as graduate and a fellow harvard
graduate from chicago. in his first remarks to the nation, garland himself gave us more information on his biography. >> my grandparents came from western russia in the early 1900s, fleeing anti-semitism, hoping to make a better life for their children in america. they settled in the midwest, eventually making their way to chicago. my father ran the smallest of small businesses, from a room in our basement. he took me with him, as he made the rounds to his customers, always impressing upon me the importance of hard work, and fair dealing. mark: so this is president obama's third opportunity to nominate someone to the supreme court. the first two were women. already, progressive groups like democracy for america expressing frustration that the president miss an opportunity to select a more liberal nominee, maybe someone to bring more diversity to court. john, you wrote a piece on garland in your magazine in
2010. what does the presidency and garland and was mr. obama too cautious with this pick? john: i don't think he has been too cautious at all. what i wrote about him back in 2010, when he was being considered by president obama to replace justice stevens was that he has a quality and undervalued , quality in terms of people you put on the court. it is not how far to the left you are, or are you basically progressive or basically conservative? can you persuade other justices to side with you? he has demonstrated that ability time and again. he is able to get conservative justices to side with him on issues on the labor law, environmental law, discrimination law. he has been a persuasive the -- persuasive judge. i think obama is playing in that game. trying to get someone, like
justice brennan, like justice warren who was able to build coalitions on the court. mark: i talked to one of the supporters of this nomination today and raised the question, he is older than nominees has -- have been of late. argued somewhat persuasively was this guy is so experienced, he is practically got the skills of a supreme court justice walking in the door that right away like john roberts was he would be an influential player in court debates. a younger judge would show more deference to the older colleagues, would not necessarily via player. he can have an impact right away. john: i think that is exactly right. when we do that, the john kasich classic on the campaign trail. the establishments last hope, and the stories he likes to tell left of this. ♪
mark: had donald trump one the ohio primary last night, there would be very few blocking his path to the republican nomination but he did not win ohio and one thing stands in his way, that would be john kasich, the man of the moment for many who was the only presidential candidate out on the trail today. everyone else was resting. townhall thisch's morning. he did not talk at all by name about trump or about ted cruz but he did talk about a lot of other stuff.
governor kasich: maybe i should tell you a little story. is political this gibberish. smallerfrom the tyrannosaurus rex to the big one. did you read the story? student debt. steelers ticket. 15 college roommates. superman changed his close. ben jerry's free for one whole year. >> you live here your whole life and he said not yet. anyway. beautiful chandeliers. president nexen. -- nexen. me,id why were you asking because you are the governor. like the simple when you keep it simple. kasich.y, john big: he did not make any dramatic news or marks.
he caught a break today in pennsylvania. supporters have dropped a ballot challenge lawsuit against him so be out there. at a time when john kasich does need to seize the moment, does he seem to have a plan to change the dynamics of this race? >> not much of a clue at this moment. i thought his performance on hising the state of ohio in victory speech was uninspiring. i thought from what i have seen of the event you were at just totally all over the place. the worst of antic, manic, frantic to my undisciplined john kasich on display. he has to get his stuff together if he has a chance to pull this off. mark: i do not know why it was a phoner this morning. he has won a lot of elections including last night. and things have come his way.
he has made his own lucky padlock. i think by doing what he needs to do to make people believe this is a three-person race to win financial support, endorsements, to move up in the polls and the upcoming states, many of the states he does seem to have a place in the contest for people who do not want ted cruz or do not want donald trump to make the elect ability argument. he needs to make news, he needs to dominate the discussion. he got a great reception, a big crowd right in the middle of kasich country but nothing to do -- to produce national headlines. he had a day when he could have when he went out on the trail. john: and look, he will have a long time before he has a chance to win again. we don't think he has much of a chance to win in arizona, or utah next tuesday. it looks to me like his next chance to put points on the board are two weeks after that in wisconsin. that is a long time to go, given trump's momentum. it gives them a chance to build up some money and get some more
of the astonishment to come on his side if that is going to happen. you would think he would be driving a message in that time if he is going to have any chance of advancing his cause. mark: i agree. today seemed like a wasted moment. john: one had percent. as ted cruz tries to rally the anti-trump forces, his campaign is calling on him to quit. a two-way race between him and the donald. after five states voted yesterday, ted cruz walked away with a big fat this eight. he almost be trump in missouri. he only lost by .2 percentage points. in illinois he lost by eight. in ohio and florida ted cruz placed third. mark my question -- mark, my question for you. the only way he can beat donald trump, why did he do better last night? mark: they tried to pick up
delegates by targeting congressional districts. he did not do as well as they expected him to do with various demographics groups. he did not do as well with older voters as he would in carolina -- north carolina and missouri. people in a lot of the states do not think he is some -- someone who tells it like it is. a strange pattern in for all of missouri and north carolina, he did not do particularly well. in illinois, he did not do well in cook county in the suburbs. dids hard to know why he not do as well. a lot of groups he could have done better with, should have done better with, he did not. mark: a look like if you look at the geographic breakdowns state to state it looked to me like they had a comprehensive failure in terms of targeting turnout in a lot of the states and they did not do anything like they said what they would try to do and what they had done successfully in some other states.
mark: jobs and the economy is an issue for a lot of voters. he does have a tax plan but i'm not sure he can convince people that he would be a good steward of a good economy. donald trump did not hold any public events today. did that mean we did not hear from last night's big winner? here's a sampling of what a down day looks like for the republican front-runner. yout has been reported that talk to senator mcconnell. including some senate senators are candidates? >> i cannot tell you but i talk to people you have on your show talking about donald trump, we have to stop him. i called them, they called me. you have people on the show all the time that are talking about stopping donald trump who are calling me to work out a deal where they want to become involved. -- consulting can with consistently so you are ready on day one? >> i'm speaking with myself
because i have a very good brain and i have said a lot of things. i think we have had enough debates. we had 11 or 12 debates. i did really well in the last one. i think i've done well in all the debates. according to drudge and everyone else i won. i think we have had enough. how many times could the same people ask you the same question so i was very surprised when i heard that fox called for the debate. no one told me about it and i will not be there. has the think hillary strength of the energy to be a great president or to be president. i really don't. in many ways she would be an embarrassment. look at what is going on with her e-mails. i think she would be a major embarrassment for the country. mark: that is a lot of stuff. the last one was a web video. he also tweeted up a storm,
pretty typical. who -- or are two we liked in particular. -- here are two we liked in particular. and another one. trump also today got the endorsement of the governor of florida, rick scott. all the things he could have done in pajamas on a barca lounge. he upped his delegate last night. he faces john kasich and ted cruz. what at this point is most likely to stop donald trump from being the republican nominee? sure he did not? mark: he could create all that stuff and never be seen.
pretty amazing. john: the only way to stop beatd trump is people who him in various states. i continue to think that the current configuration of the with kasich race able to win some states and ted cruz in theory able to win some states has a better chance of keeping trump under 1237. he has to get 59% of the delegates to get to majority before the nomination contest ends. there is a chance that can happen. it is the only way to stop him and there's a better chance of it happening that way. whether depends on kasich steps up and claims a fifth or quarter or third of these votes. if that happens without a doubt, kasich would -- being in the race would be worse for trump. i think the other thing that would need to happen is there
would need to be people in the conservative movement who decided that trump is not electable and i think a combination of holding them below 50 and not improving his polls against hillary clinton head-to-head is the way he could be stopped but those are two big ifs. seen if remains to be they can stop him from getting to 50. we will talk a lot about that in the coming days. when we come back, bernie sanders' performance problem at the polls. a look at the democratic results from last night and what they mean for our future my after this. ♪
john: last night was pretty, pretty not good for bernie sanders and his fans. sanders and suffered a clean sweep at the hands of clinton losing five states including ohio, illinois, and missouri were the polls seem to be tightening and his economic message appears to be gaining traction. twoid not do great with important groups, women and white voters in ohio compared to michigan state or he won last week in a big upset. sanders is supported -- sander'' support fell from 45% to 36% among women and from 56 to 47% among all white voters. my question for you is why didn't bernie sanders do better yesterday when he needs to? >> those are two groups are he did not do as well. the michigan experience where he
won narrowly but still one would transfer. there are other groups were he did not do as well in the states as he had done in michigan. theink my guess is that fact he could not target a single state and he had to spread out his television advertising but the head-to-head harder for made it him to draw the contrast for voters in those states. there were times when he was in the same state as hillary clinton but michigan was a more concentrated experience and perhaps the fact that the economy there has been pretty bad baby did not allow a lot of over perform. there are a bunch of groups were he did not do as well as he did in michigan. >> i agree. i feel like that is the case. sanders has -- the more people that get to know him, the more they get to see his tv ads, he tends to perform better. he starts behind hillary clinton
in almost every state. something close to what you are arguing but it is not an excuse. this is the way the system works. think he is basically doomed but it will be part of the story for sanders, the fact that he did not compete nearly well enough on nights when multiple primaries were happening. not just last but prior to that. wins didlary clinton's not give her a big boost. we have not seen this week is dick van dyke claimed all those chimneys. the sanders campaign was hard at in dealingally and with the press and the public in trying to regain control of the narrative pointing out that there are some friendly states coming up on the election calendar. a lot of caucuses and a lot of states where the electorate might be better for him.
at this point i know you just said he was all but aimed or maybe doomed. do toid -- what could he stop hillary clinton's march to the nomination western mark >> a totally unpredictable event would have to happen. some kind of political scandal or the equivalent of her being hit by a bus. the map is just the map. he would have to win 75% of the available delegates that are left that are being fought for. there is no scenario where bernie sanders could possibly do that. it's if you look at the calendar, if you took away her momentum and looked at the demographics, he could win every caucus and primary, a couple of primaries and caucuses up through when we get here to new york on april 19. if you put that scheme together that would get him plenty of momentum. people would begin to question things about her viability. i agree it would take some intervening event and it would be hard to win all the states. he has got to put together a winning streak. he has got to do something to
get people to question her ability to stop him and what her way. is if he bottom line could win every single one of those states he would need to win by really large margins and right now even the states he is winning he is not winning by those kinds of margins. john: they did it in nevada and they did it last night and he did not do well enough to get people to say you lift up to expectations. that is a killer. supreme dive into the court nomination with two experts on the topic. joining us next. joining us next.
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the president possibly nation of merrick garland, is ron klain, the former chief of staff to al gore and joe biden. and the correspondent for npr. nina totenberg. you have known merrick for a long time? and you have main an argument that this is a pic that is the free of politics. seriously? guest: i think so, john. merrick has no big political following, he is not the first of this or that. he is just the best person for the job, the best for obama to put forward. i think that makes the case for him particularly compelling. the republicans cannot argue that the president did this for any kind of political advances -- advantage or to rally voters. they cannot argue anything other than this is a person who was nominated because he is a great jurist, a great lawyer, and a great person. that is what he stands for.
john: nina turned berg, it seems to me that a pic that is free of politics is still politics. pick thating the would be difficult for republicans not to give him a hearing. don't you see that as being the case question mark nina: i do. i entirely see that. you can see that those who wanted him to make a choice of someone younger, someone you might be there younger. you can argue you did not do that, therefore it is political. however, he did not do that in part because he had a message from republican the channels, -- through back channels that they would probably move this nomination after the presidential election in the lame-duck session. and if you make back in session, you can work on other concessions. and they will work hard to break down this idea that there should not be a hearing and a vote prior to the election when the president made a nomination in march.
mark: ron, you're a student of these confirmation tussles as in nina. the key to me says to me senator grassley, chairman of the committee. courtesy calls are a stepping stone but the big thing will be if he gets a hearing. he has a chance of being confirmed. what do you think lifts senator grassley from unalterably opposed to a hearing to a hearing? withit starts off republicans saying that they will meet with judge garland. one semi with him others will. i think once people may with him it will be hard to say no to a hearing. we are a understand polarized country. there is a lot of politics but it is a fair country. is the idea that someone qualified does not get a chance to make his case, does not even get a hearing, it will rub
people as unfair and wrong. that will play out. i made the point that this whole thing is different once there is an actual nominee. once you see merrick and the tape the white house released telling his life story it will be hard for people to say he does not even get a hearing. in to get a hearing? >> it will not flip him. he has to foot mcconnell and that is a harder proposition. looknot think people mcconnell on things at this and this there is a complete revolution. unless they think this becomes a major electoral issue. i still have a hard time believing the supreme court has ever -- is ever a major electoral issue except for the true believers who have decided anyway. this is a process area the white house did not just released tape of merrick garland talking about being a judge. it released tape of him at ground zero at the oklahoma city bombing.
the president talked about that in his remarks. you could see when the president was talking you could see that that was the moment when judge garland actually almost lost his composure. he feels very passionately about being someone to protect victims and convict the guilty. -- he is a judge but he was a prosecutor all of his life and they will ride that horse to town. you can be sure of that. mark: there are a couple of republicans who have been with leader mcconnell. collins, kelly ayotte, others. are those meaningful that they are not falling in lockstep kind his posture right now? nina: kelly ayotte is in a very tough reelection race. susan collins from the beginning was one of one or two republicans who said you ought
to meet with someone who is not nominated. she did not make any pledges about a hearing or no hearing. so far for connell has been able to keep his troops in line almost unanimously on the question of having a hearing as reason is the reason that ron speaks about. if you have a hearing and the nominee does well, then why not have a vote? that is what they do not want to have. you can see mcconnell's point of view but the optics of it are not great. you can tell that in all the opinion polls. i do not think there is any public opinion poll that -- in which people think this is a great position. even a substantial number of republicans think this is not a great position to be opposing a hearing. three do not think the who would meet with him are the last three. this is water for the basement wall. more republicans will meet with
judge garland. it will be a surprising bunch of good news in the next couple of days. ifn: we will get to see these come true. thank you both. establishmentican plans to handle donald trump's success at the poll. joining us after a quick word from our sponsors. you can listen to us on bloomberg 99.1 fm. we will be right back.
know your record. how do you feel about that label? are seeing it because they are being come from entry, i like it. if they are not, then i don't. i don't really care about shaking things up, as long as i am on the right track. if i am on the wrong track, i need to have friends and smart people around me to say i am wrong. i am willing to listen, too. there is no orthodox -- i am an unorthodox political figure. john: that was the john kasich at a town hall at just outside of philadelphia. we have a strategist and kasich advisor, charlie sly. -- black. i want you to tell me, what is the plan for how you are going to get john kasich to be the nominee? charlie: john, we are getting into an historic convention. no one has seen this since the democrats in the 1920's. john kasich now as momentum out of ohio. he will win other primaries in the northwest and mid east, and maybe california.
we are going to go to the convention. i think donald trump will have about 40% of the delegates, ted cruz, about 25%, and the rest will be john kasich delegates, or even undecided. it will be a wide open, competitive convention. as you know, all of the delegates are free agent. john: you are continuing the pointer, that john kasich will not be able to be the nominee in a straightforward way, he won't be able to get to 1237. -- 1273. do you think it is possible for donald trump to get a majority? charlie: he has not gotten anywhere near that so far. he will have to get 60%. i think he will end up with 40 percent of the delegates as a say. takers will have 25%. it will be disciplined in terms of sticking with him. trump's people will not necessarily be on the second, third, fourth ballot.
john kasich has as much chance as anybody. they care about electability. john kasich is almost electable. mark: charlie, i follow a lot of what you're saying but the thing i have trouble following is the notion of a slamdunk that john kasich will win states or even be competitive in eight. given his current poll standing, lack of enthusiasm i have been able to detect, despite your move in the last 24 hours, how is he going to win the state? charlie: i think, he is now in the spotlight for the first time. the more people see of john, the more they like him. look at states in the midwest and northeast, new york, pennsylvania, delaware, indiana, and those kinds of states, a more mainstream conservative has a good chance. john will acquit himself well as he gets more attention in the campaign. i am confident he will win a few more states. if he does not, maybe my theory is not good, but come. not go for a majority. mark: the debate has been
canceled largely because donald trump said he will not go. you have known it from for a -- donald trump for a long time. will he basically saying a more debates and if so, does that hurt john kasich us chances of getting in the arena and competing with the other two? charlie: i think we would have rather -- we would rather have debates. that gives john a good chance for exposure, and the contrast between his positive approach the gutter attacks by donald trump. john: charlie, it became public last night that you would support john kasich. how long you been a supporter? charlie: he has been a friend of mine his whole adult life. in this race, there were five or six candidates who i thought were well i'll fight to be president who i was personal friends with so i sat it out until it narrowed down to one and so last night, i had told
john a day or two before the primary if he won and marco lost i was in. so i am in. john: i hope you don't take it as a criticism, that you are a member of the republican establishment. if anything, you would be a charter member of it. charlie: i think that as a comment. i spend my adult life in the trenches, electing congressmen, centers, and presidents. i qualify as a grassroots guy. john: john: why is it that john kasich, a popular two-term governor, why is it that he has seen so little support from fellow members of your club? up until even now, even with the people who have come over. in the past few months has a -- has trump gained strength? not?hy has kasich where have you all been? charlie: he did not spend a lot of time around washington, but a lot of people signed up early, especially for marco rubio.
how we had inside the beltway more support than anybody else. now it is open, you will see more donors and party leaders me to support john kasich. what matters, is people out in the field and primaries voting in the states, and those 2400 people at delegates, at some -- who are going to be delegates who at some point will be free agents. mark: wisconsin is in a couple weeks. arguably, that kind of state that will start to see progress. is that a state where john kasich should finish first or second? charlie: i think he could finish first or second there. he needs to campaign there. he is in pennsylvania today, which is another good state for him. it is actually his native state. even in new york, donald trump is not that popular outside of manhattan or queens. there are a lot of states there that john will have a chance to win delegates and state. -- maybe win some of those states.
mark: do you expect in the next round of polling now that it is down to three, that you will see john kasich get out of the teens and the 20's and 30's in some places? charlie: i do. the more coverage he gets, after this supreme court nominee stuff, especially if he wins and other primary or two, his numbers will improve. the national numbers are irrelevant. john: do you think if donald trump were to become the republican nominee, what are the various forms of damage that would inflict on the party? don't just say he would lose to hillary clinton. do you think there is more than that? charlie: there is more than that. unless something happens to improve his numbers. since he has been in the race, he has always been 10 points or so behind hillary clinton. if he loses, in the blue states where we are trying to get senate seat, we would probably lose. it means we lose house seats. we could lose governorships.
what happens is a bunch of republicans stay home if they don't believe in the nominee. john: but not an essential -- existential threat to the party? charlie: no, the party will be here. and i don't think trump will dominate the party, win or lose. john: charlie black, thank you for coming in. when we get back, steve mcmahon breaks down the state of the race. and reporting from the campaign trail. ♪
our lifetime. the next president will walk into the oval office in january, sit down at the desk, and start making decisions that will affect the lives and livelihoods of everyone in this country. indeed, everyone on this planet. john: joining me now, our democratic strategist steve mcmahon. and another friend, bc correspondent kristin. you are across from me, you have been with hillary clinton a lot during this nomination by. the math now is pretty daunting for bernie sanders. how annoying is the clinton campaign starting to get with the idea that bernie sanders might stay in this race and cause her problems and spend a lot of money she does not want to spend of the next few weeks? kristin: i think there is concern.
they want to give it to the general election in a railway. we have seen her start to do that on the campaign trail. last night she came after donald trump with her sharpest attacks yet. she said we need a commander-in-chief who will defend us, not embarrass us very having said that, the campaign is a jubilant today. because they pulled off that clean sweep last night. they were not expecting it. this is getting much closer to be able to put it to the general election. for one, you have the optics of it. this makes her look like a much stronger front runner and then you have the math, the bottom line. she has a huge delegate lead over bernie sanders. she had two times over what barack obama had over her in 2008. they are feeling very confident, focusing on locking up the nomination. to your point, they are anxious to do that so they can give it -- give it to the general election. they are thinking it is going to happen now more quickly than before last night.
john: steve, let me ask you this question. what happened last night? mark and i tried to answer this. bernie's win an upset in michigan, gave him hope, but he lost everything last night. what is the explanation? steve: secretary clinton right righted herself on the whole issue of trade. the core of the argument was rich people and wall street are taking the money you should have. he moved that to an argument against these trade deals costing us manufacturing jobs across the country, which really worked in michigan. hillary clinton for the power of that trade message, and she is a fast learner. she applied those lessons and that is what accounted for it. she did not allow her position on trade to be mischaracterized. and she picked up her game. mark: kristin, what do you think their attitude is toward these upcoming state? a lot of caucuses, and in some states, it might be more welcoming ground for bernie sanders.
can they afford some losses? kristin: and they feel they can afford some losses. they're looking at arizona, for example. sanders has already been spending big in that state. candidly, they say arizona is going to be tough. they think those other caucuses -- caucus states they are facing will be rough, as well. what they are focused on, they want to win the delegate-rich states like california and new york. she will be in connecticut. in the coming days. they want to keep their losses to a minimum. there is no doubt about that. but they anticipate senator sanders will have some weight. -- some wins. i want to add, what we are seeing is the democratic base being energized in a way we have not seen. i think part of that has to do with this stop trump movement. i have been speaking to voters, and they say we have to stop him by electing hillary clinton now,
and then be really energized in the general election. we could see the obama coalition more energized than we have seen them in this primary. that is going to be the real question as we head into this. mark: he was called the dead by the media, then michigan happen. -- happened. if you were inside the sanders campaign and senator sanders said we want to change this scenario, is there anything they can do to change that? steve: they can do things like raise money online to suggest momentum. sometimes there was not as much momentum as we were suggesting. the big rallies in crowds he continues to draw give the sense of a candidate he that is very -- candidacy that is very much alive. the delegate count has got to be depressing for those guys. they have done this before, and they know the math is almost impossible at this point. how does bernie sanders stay
motivated and enthusiastic when he knows the chances of winning are between slim and none? at this john: do you think point. there'll come a point when the clinton campaign will be more explicit than it is been so far in asking senator sanders to step aside for the sake of unity and focus on donald trump? kristen: i don't think we will see that from the campaign. i would not be surprised if we heard that from some of her surrogates. if the campaign starts to take that tactic, they run the risk of alienating his supporters. they think it is critical to give him the space that she was given in 2008 take it to the convention if that is what he thinks is necessary. john: it is a tricky thing. the obama campaign made a slight mistake in 2008. they called out for her to drop out and it alienated her supporters. steve: she is running a delegate campaign. they don't care if bernie