tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg March 1, 2017 5:00pm-6:01pm EST
a white house official also says trump has delayed the new directive until at least friday. senate has given approval to dr. ben carson, president trump's choice to lead the department of housing and urban development. it was a bipartisan 62-37 vote. the senate confirmed ryan's inky to lead the interior department. roughly 20% of the nation's land is now under the watch of the montana native. aesident trump also chose longtime donor to republican campaigns as ambassador to canada, that according to a person familiar with the mat ter. craft is completing the necessary paperwork. address today was the most
conference of overhaul to golf. news 24 hours a day, powered by 2600 journalists. this is bloomberg. ♪ caroline: coming up, snap expected to price at $17 a share, but is the devil in the details? we will write down the pricing of the biggest social media listing since twitter. talking of twitter, the social media company recruits machines in its fight against abrasive behavior -- abusive behavior. and toshiba offers its memory chip business to the highest bidder. foxconn emerges as a front
runner. lead. to our ism in new york, where snap set to price shares of its ipo at $17 each. the parent company of snapchat says it will be the biggest social media listing since twitter went public more than three years ago. shares of snap will start trading thursday on the new york stock exchange, and we will be there live. joining us as our guest host is ,avid kirkpatrick, alex barinka and in san francisco, the managing partner of good water capital. i wanted to start with you, because tomorrow the question is $17 a pop, will the shares pop? guest: it depends a lot on what the investor demand is. what we have seen is that these
companies have a lot of volatility. twitter popped a lot in the face of facebook. it struggled to hold its ipo price. caroline: alex, 10 times what it is worth is what is being reported. is there enough being left on the table? alex: you have to remember that facebook had the trading day glitch as well. the oversubscription, i will cap the at-bat by saying that investors -- everyone is fighting for allocation for these buzzy companies. it seems like they don't want it to fly off the charts. it. like this idea that you have left a money off the table. we will be watching tomorrow to see what happens and see if there is as much demand as there buzz aroundd the -- the listing. caroline: most of the orders came in at the $17, $18 range.
david kirkpatrick, you have been telling me this is a nosebleed valuation. david: i still think it is, but on the other hand there is nosebleed worth of demand. a huge amount of people want to get in on the hot new thing, who see this as the first opportunity of its time in a number of years, and i suspect a lot of them are out there in the marketplace after the ipo as well. i would expect the stock would go up somewhat after the ipo. you have so much experience in this, you helped twitter come to the market. daily active users is something that has been striking the market in particular. there has been a slowdown in snapchat's daily user growth, whereas that was not the case with facebook or twitter. guest: i think that is the biggest concern facing the company right now. if you look at them compared to facebook and twitter at the same point, snapchat is growing half
as fast as facebook and twitter were on a quarter on quarter basis. as you track to the trajectories of facebook and twitter since their public offerings, it is really a tale of two cities. facebook has grown at a rapid clip, while twitter has slowed down. caroline: going back to facebook , it took a couple of years to prove their strategy was the right one. daily active users, they might be far less than instagram, but they are addicted. alex: they are, and that is kind of the bet for snap. you heard them push on the roadshow, we are not trying to win everyone everywhere on the platform, we do want them to be more engaged. iny are trying to keep folks the platform, and that is how they are trying to bring in advertisers. again, it is still so early in their moneymaking process. they have only been making real revenue for about two years. caroline: more than $400
million. alex: but when you compare that to the big peers, it's drops in the bucket. the need to prove that is right thing to be going toward and that they can keep users on the platform, especially of growth falters. , a lot of thed chat has also been about the control that the two key cofounders maintain. this is a leaf out of the book of google and facebook, which has steadily taken control back as leaders of the business, but they have already proven. how much is being talked about in the market, and people are trying to push back, regulate? david: it is something by essentiallyn maintaining control to an extreme in the sense that they are giving absolutely no control whatsoever to the shareholders. my feeling in terms of what they have to ignite is actual profits.
facebook have money coming in. they had $400 million in revenue, but $500 million in losses. .hat is a $900 million span they have serious work to do to make a real business that makes profit. the idea will help them find that and also develop new capabilities, but i am a little skeptical about this as a business business. at good water, you have done some numbers. you have touch elated when they will make a profit, not until 2019. if we do see a pop tomorrow, how long will that last? you have argued this could be an m&a target in the longer term. guest: i think an asset like this with a strong, committed audience of 18 to 24-year-olds is something that a lot of companies will covet, particularly as an acquisition, if they are not able to get the business model working.
i think of it as a media .ompany, not a social network facebook can target every single atr in the world, but snap, 150 million highly engaged 18 to 30-year-olds, could be a very valuable media company. caroline: i was reading an article, and the target worldwide is not a billion. they have already said they are not really going into the emerging markets. alex: to the point of it being a media company, that's where it starts to get interesting, because you think about where they are trying to steal ad dollars from. you have your mobile platforms and digital platforms like facebook, google. they are trying to take money and advertisers from them. but when you think about snap as a second screen to a tv, that is where big money is, and when you know your target market, that becomes more attractive. the problem now is snap is not
giving it a lot of data to advertisers, and advertisers want return on investments. these will be some of the challenges i am sure evan spiegel and his team are thinking about as they are trying to close that $900 million gap between revenue and profit. caroline: we have the breaking news now, reports of pricing of the ipo is indeed at $17 a share. david, going forward, when you look at these advertisers, what about the hardware side of the at asian? ?- side of the equation people are excited about the glasses, drones. david: the glasses are a cool thing. a very small number of people got them. who knows that they could be part of an actual business? we don't know. a lot of people have been talking about how snap's real opportunity would be to go into a reality, and the glasses might be a touch of feet in the water for that idea.
but look at how much money magically has spent trying to build an augmented reality product, and you realize that is not easy to do. i am not holding my breath about them being successful at hardware. i do believe they are successful at an entertaining and engaging experience for young people. i don't really think of them as a media company. they are a weird hybrid, because they have network effects. control the advertising in a way that no social media company has ever done. they treat that more as if they were a cable channel. they put out content, and they are selling ads against the content a essentially program. that is interesting, but whether the valuation on that should be considered comparable to ,acebook, which i frankly doubt if it was a media company, the valuation is a lot less. caroline: the key question is, do you wish you had got in on
this company, and do you think it is a good bet to be buying in right now with the leadership having full control? guest: of course i wish i had bought into this company. .his is the one that got away every early investor who is not a venture investor is feeling that right now. control is not an issue right now. i know the optics of giving no voting rights to the shareholders looks bad, but at google they have a very similar structure. notably, twitter does not have the structure, and twitter has underperformed with a lot of challenges at the board level and at the management company level because of the lack of clarity from a founder with the long-term vision to make strategic decisions. david: do you see spiegel as a zuckerberg-type personality? guest: i think he really is.
evan, i met him in the fall of 2012, before you did his series a funding round. we took a walk on the beach in venice. he told me he was going to take down twitter and facebook. caroline: why didn't you buy in? guest: that is a much longer story in the way that decisions get made. but he already had a clear vision, and he had already identified $.10 as the model he admired most in the market, and he wanted to build a platform that looked a lot more like tenc ent. he had just robot -- rebuffed an offer from mark zuckerberg the previous week. we thank you very much for your time. of course, alex barinka will be live tomorrow from the new york stock exchange, and david kirkpatrick is sticking with me. a quick update on yahoo!, the company just filed a 10k in the
annual report measuring the company's financial health. ronald bell resigned from the company's general counsel. also, marissa mayer let go of her bonus. bloomberg received a statement from mayer saying, "i have agreed to for go my annual bonus and annual equity grants this year, and i wish the bonus to be redistributed to our company's hard-working employees." wow. coming up, twitter continues to fight off abusive tweets. the company is turning to algorithms. ♪
caroline: the fight continues for twitter as the social network takes additional steps to cut abusive tweets. they're turning to algorithms to fight abusive behavior. record 3after a million tweets were sent out last night regarding president trump's address to congress. joining us, cory johnson, and still with us, david kirkpatrick, tech economy ceo. corey, to you first. basically no eggheads anymore is the idea. think the idea is there are people out there who send nasty things to people they don't know and, for whatever lack of bravery they exhibit in real life, they are quite brave online, said that horrible things to people, and it is a function of anyone who is on twitter. the more big you are on twitter, the more likely you are to encounter these trolls, and the company has not done enough to stop it.
they have had these tools at their disposal and chosen not to use them in the past. they have decided they can't put up with it anymore. caroline: david, too little, too late? it is tooon't think little, too late, but if mean tweets have become an entertainment feature on television, they have a problem to solve. i do think it is not irrelevant that mark centerburg put out that idealistic statement about all the ways facebook could make life better for its members just a few weeks ago. i think that is something of a product he to twitter -- prod here to twitter to do something similar. caroline: jack dorsey put out on twitter but he wanted to hear from his user base and what he would put in place in 2017. still, the company does wildly well. a record-breaking amount of tweets, but it does not seem to find the love from its user base to encourage more to join. cory: you are right at the heart
of this. what is the biggest problem with twitter's business model? it is the number of users that have. it is not just the interpreted from these angry twitters -- tweeters and twitter trolls. these are people very engaged with twitter and sending out lots of mean tweets. there is also the question of the validity of how many people are on twitter. twitter cannot afford to take hits in its number of users. twitter cannot afford to decide in one quarter, 10 million of our 350 million users are horrible people, or 10 million of those user accounts are 2 million horrible people, and they are cleaning the service out. they can't see that number go down, advertisers won't tolerate it. they want to protect the number of users they report, even though they don't actually want all those people as users, as evidenced by these trolls and
what they are doing to try to limit them, but not completely get rid of them. caroline: 250 million is more than snap has, but they have never had sorts of issues. david: they certainly can't show any user declines of substance. they would really be hitting the market. on the other hand, if they have any hope of growing, they have to reduce the problem of abuse so that ordinary people go comfortable being there. they have a lot of interface issues they still have to address. they are working on some of those, but this is key as well. corey -- y, is there any change in the valuation going forward? for its we looking for staff to show some beacon of light to the investor base? cory: how much it charges for
advertising growth, and growth of users, as we have mentioned. increasingly, facebook and google are gathering up all the energy and expenditures going on online. advertisers leaving twitter and leaving yahoo!, where are they going to go? are they going to go to snapchat? that is a big question for investors. are they going to go to facebook or google, or will they stay with twitter? the problem with twitter, they wanted to be a cleaner service without all these trolls. it's like breaking up with a bad boyfriend. you might hope there is a better boyfriend out there for you, but you've got to get rid of the bad one before you can find a good one. caroline: cory, you are full of great analogies today. cory johnson live from san francisco. david kirkpatrick is staying with me here.
huber ceo travis kalanick has issued an apology after being caught on camera arguing with a driver. kalanick is seen posting about the company's tough culture before be raging a driver asking about cutting fares. >> you know what? some people don't like to take responsibility. caroline: he released a reaction saying, to say i am embarrassed is an understatement. it is clear this video is a reflection of me and the criticism we received as a stark reminder that i must fundamentally change as a leader and grow up. this is the first time i have been willing to admit that i need leadership health, and i intend to get it. is the latest in a series of embarrassing incidents for the company. thousands deleted their accounts
after the company was accused of protesting a strike protesting president trump's travel ban. , along the startups that rally wednesday, is apple hitting an all-time high? one analyst says the stock still has room to run. check out tv on bloomberg. you can check out any of the bloomberg functions. you can become part of the conversation by sending us an instant message during our's shows. it is only for bloomberg subscribers, i'm afraid. check it out. ♪
there's a lot of anticipation building up for this new phone. in september, there is maybe a difference where we have not had a substantial difference since out. and 6s came it seems like the momentum tried to creep up a little more. if you look at 2018 earnings with growth, if they can deliver mid single-digit growth, you can get more run out of the stock. caroline: meanwhile, box reported a fourth-quarter loss that was better than forecast, but the company gave an outlook that trailed estimates. the enterprise cloud technology has seen its shares double in the past year. .pple just scored a major win a u.s. appeals court has tossed out a jury verdict against the company over patent infringement allegations involving its itunes software. the patents owned by smart flash are invalid.
this is the second time apple has succeeded in getting a big dollar patent decision overturned. in 2011, they won a reversal of a verdict on how documents are displayed on a computer screen. coming up, snap set its ipo price. we take a deep dive on the financials and discuss the company's ad strategy and whether it justifies its heavy valuation. ♪
it is the first parliamentary defeat for theresa may's government. the bill could still be overturned by the house of commons. a french presidential candidate faced a largely supportive crowd as he toured the french firm fair this afternoon, considered a critical stop for candidates in the spring election. he visited the fair or just hours after he pledged to remain in the arrays, despite charges over his misuse of public funds. macron also made his -- also made a stop at the fair, but was hit in the back of the head with an egg. ex cia agent sabrina desousa won a last-minute reprieve in court today and will no longer be extradited to italy. she was convicted in italy for involvement in the kidnapping of a muslim cleric in 2003.
pope francis let a ceremony today to mark the beginning of land. -- lent. to use thetholics time to challenge a modern "culture of indifference." 2600e by more thand journalists and analysts, this is bloomberg. it is just after 5:30 p.m. wednesday here in new york, already 6:30 thursday morning in singapore. i'm joined by david ingles with a look at the markets. morning.od we are looking at momentum to carry through into the asian activities this thursday -- asian equities this thursday. japan looks like it will be sitting on a rocket ship. when it opens, we are looking at 400 points on the nikkei 225. new zealand just topping a two-week high. a few other things we are following, aussie trade coming
out, the malaysian rate decision . that being said, when you look at the story, the currency and bond markets are above positioning on what the fed is going to do. yields are climbing back up. i think the question for a lot of fun managers in the asia-pacific is just how much further do i pull funds out and really chase yield? one stock we are watching likely, toshiba, foxconn technology, the iphone manufacturer, seriously considering bidding for the chip business of the company. lots to talk about. i'm david ingles. more from "bloomberg tech" next. ♪ this is "bloomberg technology." our top story this hour, snap pricing its ipo shares at $17 a
piece, higher than the expected range. it is said to be 10 times oversubscribed, and that gives the company a value of $20 billion they son 1.2 billion shares outstanding on the ipo. the owner of the company snapchat will be the biggest social media listing since twitter went public more than three years ago. david kirkpatrick is still with me. joining us from seattle is debra williamson, and from san francisco, sarah frier, bloomberg technology reporter who has been all over this snap piece of news. give us the, sarah, update in terms of the amount of voter subscription. it does seem to have been correlating around the $17 to $18. could it go higher? they want to price it at a level to ensure they meet the demand, but not too much that
they don't get a nice bump on their first day of trading. at $17, it is priced because of that outpaced demand, it could have gone even higher, but snapped executives want to make sure that tomorrow, when the shares start trading, you get a nice, healthy trading bump , and people will say the ipo went successfully. caroline: david, you are an optimist when it comes to snapchat. tell us what the advertisers are looking at. 158 million users? how much bigger can it go? >> i think snapchat has a long road ahead of it. this is a company that has only been selling advertising for a couple of years. we have heard the news about slowdown in user growth, but i fully believe that as snapshot grows in -- as snapchat grows and matures, we will see more usage among older generations, moms, maybe even grandmas, and
i think that will be exciting to work. a is among the few people i have heard say that, but i don't agree. i think there is not in the evidence that is happening. to say it could happen is highly speculative. i don't see this company being the next facebook. i think it is a great company. it has achieved enormous successes. it will likely continue to be a major platform for young people. but to be a multipurpose communications platform that spans the growth, i don't see it. sarah: david, i respect your work as well. you after member facebook, when it first launched, was only popular with young people, only popular with college students. it took time for facebook to build an audience among older people, and it did do that.
snapchat, my daughter uses it like you won't believe. i don't really understand, but i think what snapchat is doing is incredibly important. they are changing communications for young people, and this is something we need to pay attention to, just like facebook did when it launched. david: i agree with everything you said. i have a 21-year-old daughter who is a compulsive user of snapchat. she is also a huge user of instagram, although she has dropped facebook. instagram is impeding with snap. neither facebook or twitter really had head-to-head competitors when they went public. second of all, facebook was profitable when they went public, and this company is so far from it. don't you think these are big differences? and you areutely, right, instagram has a lot going for it, particularly because it is owned by facebook, but you are seeing instagram -- teens and young adults are using
instagram in a very selective way, to only post the best things, to only follow but they want to follow, not with that rapid intensity of young people using snapchat. that is one key difference to keep in mind as we go forward. caroline: let's bring it back to sarah. when we are looking at the numbers, revenues have gone up seven times. million. $400 people are saying it could hit $1.8 billion by 2018 area how will they adapt -- by 2018. how will they adapt to making money with this business? i spent a lotek, of time with advertisers in new york city, talking about them with what it would take to get snap to the not just an experimental side of their budgets, but part of their ad spending for their clients. they mentioned they need it to 's ads,er to buy snap
they need to be sure of the return on investment from those ads, and the need to be able to target and measure their audiences the way they are able to on other platforms. when i say other platforms, the big one is facebook. facebook can give you very granular targeting for your .udiences, but also youtube youtube has dominated in mobile video advertising, and if snap wants to be the sort of millennial version of tv, they need to make sure they can compete with that. they have made a lot of progress in the last year. advertisers spoke highly about the understanding of the market. but there is still a lot to do. klhan is aging -- khan is
a genius, in my opinion, but one of the things snap has said is they are not going to target the way facebook has. they are not going to gather personal data and show their ads based on that. if that is what advertisers are seeking, isn't that unlikely that those advertisers are going to get what they are looking for? sarah: well, they are getting some of it. right now on snap, they can target based on what lifestyle categories you have been looking at on discover. let's say you read a lot of people magazine channel. they would be able to target to you based on that. there are 100 plus different ways to target people by interest. then, of course, you can target by other things like email lists that match with marketers. none of that is anywhere close to what you get on facebook. on facebook, you can see someone
got out of a relationship and moved to a different city, all these things that really help advertisers target people at a moment in their lives when they are most likely to buy something . but i think the part where snap is set apart is the geographic targeting. a lot of people don't talk about this, because we mostly talk the geodeo ads, but filters specific to retail locations or that might allow you to unlock a deal, those are becoming a lot more popular, and this is their one self-serve ad product that could meet a lot of small businesses' needs. debra, you've got so much data you ripped apart. give us your view on where snapchat goes with revenues over the next few years, really riffing off what david put to sarah? the three things that sarah mentioned that advertisers are looking for from snapchat
are the same three things that advertisers were looking for from facebook in the early days. we may see snapchat change its tune overtime. we will have to wait and see. to get to the point about ad revenue, we are forecasting that snapchat might have $900 million in ad revenue this year, more than double what we expected last year and what we saw in the f1. this is a company that is growing. you are right, it is not nearly as big as facebook, but you have to get this company the benefit of the doubt. they have developed super creative ways to advertise, whether it be vertical video war sponsored lenses, sponsored filters. all these things are new ways to advertise, and they are innovating just as much as facebook did in its early days. caroline: great conversation throughout. thank you so much for your ongoing analysis. david kirkpatrick, i'm pleased to say, is sticking with me.
caroline: toshiba is looking to sell its memory chip business at a value of $13 billion. toshiba is willing to sell majority stakes in the unit or the entire business. one person interested is foxconn's terry good. i am joined by peter. the pickytoshiba about this -- be picky about this? to back up a step,
toshiba is reeling from financial troubles in its u.s. nuclear business. it is going through this process of trying to shore up its balance sheet because of the write-down and will have to take with its nuclear business, so it is looking at selling a number ,f asset, everything from perhaps, its nuclear business, its operation business, but the crown jewel is the memory chip business, which could be worth $13 billion, more or less. it has begun to solicit bids from a ride weddings of guopanies, and terry said he is interested. all the other companies interested are already in the flash memory business, so they would face an antitrust review or some kind of regulatory scrutiny that would slow down the process. that is a problem for toshiba. there are also financial bidders in the mix, including a couple
pe firms, but they will not have the ability to copy allies on synergies. -- capitalize on synergies. won a contentious bid, and it looks like he is coming back to toshiba to take over the chip business. david: it is a crown jewel of any company, and this is one of the central technologies of modern life. we have seen how beautiful foxconn is at executing things, just creating this incredible .roduction machine they will take this technology and drive it forward in a way others probably cannot. i think it is a promising idea, but it's got to be tragic for toshiba to lose this extraordinary business. is $30e: the valuation
billion. why is it less than what was originally gone for? what are people taking apart? -- picking apart. reporter: toshiba has to sell quickly. it would like to avoid an antitrust review with some bidders already in the flash memory business. it is also a challenge that the japanese government is not anxious to let this business go abroad. terry gou does have a lot of potential to come into this. he has never really run a business like this before. it is very capital intensive, cyclical. the core business of foxconn's assembly. this is a much more capital-intensive business. it will be a challenge to integrate it, but he shows promise with the investment he made a year ago. david: peter, how would you compare this memory business with some of the other top players in the market? tworter: toshiba is number
in flash memory behind samsung. the others that are below those top two, sk hynix, western digital, are a bit smaller than toshiba, so it is a very strong business. the japanese government has been asked to questions about whether they would be ok with a foreign bidder taking over this operation. so far they have said they probably would, although it is very strategically important for the technology industry. they have been proud of this historically, but i think at this point there are domestic asders that have emerged better contenders than foxconn or some of these other companies have. thank you, fantastic reporting. david kirkpatrick, i did you farewell. great to have you in person. coming up, we will speak to a ceo who is betting on the next growth market for wearables, your years. that's that -- your ears.
new gadget category is being pioneers known as hearables, which can alter what we hear around us. cory johnson recently spoke with the doppler labs ceo. guest: i would not say we are trying to solve a problem. we are trying to give people superhuman hearing, giving people the ability to hear the world, so you hear what you want to hear and don't hear what you don't want to hear. cory: so they are not headphones. guest: definitely not. they do stream music, but basically there was a predecessor product for this, and all it did was allow you to augment the outside world. in cnas?nd of like tri
ten cans? 1 guest: i would say more like spectacles. we believe the future of computing will happen on the body. everybody is making bets on the eyes and wrists, and we need to bet on the ears. we believe putting a computer system in your e will be the will be -- in your ear the future of how we interact with technology. if you're just saying, hey, order me an uber, or hey, i want to go to dinner with you -- it's a more natural way to compute. and we see that happening
with alexa and google play. guest: absolutely. google has seen some criticism from the likes of marc benioff and others from jumping on the voice bandwagon. but it seems more like there was a technological wave cresting. .uest: that's a great question for me, it was actually more cultural. i am not an engineer. my background is in music. i saw computers becoming more and more alien. you can think of google glass. tech onre going to put their faces and where it all the time, and it is going to be awesome. i was sitting there saying, no, they are not, and simultaneously you have this moment of beats -- movement of beats, wearing five
pounds of plastic on your head and doing it proudly. ights.with we guest: there were these cultural practices happening that silicon valley was not thinking about. we thought there was a coalescing. we use the term wearables, but they don't like it. on bodycheck, truly indispensable computing on your body's. for us, that means we have warned tech in arrears from worn tech in our ears for decades. why not leverage that? cory: inventory drops, they get gross margins, compression, and competition from companies who don't care about patents and just make cheap copies. but, you've got companies like fitbit who have fabulous
margins, or apple, fabulous margins, who are deeply in the electronic space. how do you make sure you are the latter and not one of the former? guest: we pride ourselves on not being a gadget. with the iphone, there are two big things. steve jobs was smart enough to launch a pocket computer and not call it a pocket computer. he was smart enough to say people are already carrying computers in their pockets, and i will leverage that to get them a new device, the iphone. the original iphone did not have an app store. phone inveraging a your ears, and we want to build a platform on that. the other question, the way you don't become a gadget is you focus on the software and the backend. that's how apple got great. you have the app store, connectivity to a robust software platform that makes it
truly indispensable, above and beyond the hardware. cory: further, where are you guys in terms of development? guest: nobody is doing what we are doing. we have four processors in each ar. it truly is a computer. we are the first product you can still walkr ear and around. caroline: that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." tomorrow, we will be covering the snap ipo from every single angle possible. remember, all episodes are live streaming on twitter. ♪