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tv   Bloomberg Surveillance  Bloomberg  December 18, 2020 8:00am-9:00am EST

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♪ >> certainly there is an argument to be made. >> something that has these moves, there will be a reckoning. >> you look at hiring, layoffs increase. >> you will see numbers start to disappoint. >> the real yields have not gone up which is why the fed price has stood. >> it will be difficult for the fed to latch onto the notion that they're not going to do anything. >> the way people are spending has shifted. >> i see the economy getting back to normal for the second half of next year. >> this is bloomberg
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surveillance. good morning, everyone. on radio and on television on this friday, really moving into the holiday spirit. we are trying to figure out schedules. it is the last time we are together. it is deeply emotional. i can barely contain myself. lisa: i think it froze over if you look outside. tom: thanks to our team yesterday radio particularly, for a great effort in the snowstorm. rob caroline making me smarter about it as well. right now we've got some important drama, it is not the data. -1.04, that gets my attention. look for the real yield. right now look at the emotion we have all been through on this pandemic. the vice president of the united states, i believe it is in
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indiana, a short sleeve look as he will take the shot of the vaccine here with karen pence. this is playing out all over the world. clear, short's be sleeves because it is tough to take a dress shirt and roll up the sleeves high enough to receive a vaccine. that is why the vice president has chosen a different output. let's move past that quickly. last week was an important moment with sondra lindsay of long island, an intensive care nurse being the first to receive the vaccine. an important moment to recognize that front line of healthcare is still facing huge risks and we need to get them vaccinated quickly. this moment is much more about public confidence, that we have high-profile officials in administration receiving the vaccine because confidence is going to be a big issue as this rolls out in the months to come. not what is so important is
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only the gathered including the vice president and i believe dr. fauci as well, perhaps members of the cdc, but these people are the people in the trenches doing this every day and they are not doing it at the eisenhower building in front of cameras. lisa: it is a massive effort. i want to speak to something john was talking about. this moment speak to the twitter post we got from president trump and the comments from the fda. president saying on twitter, moderna vaccine approved, distribution to start immediately. the fda saying the moderna vaccine is not authorized. how does that contribute to public confidence? we have these two messages. we want the pandemic to be over, but we want it to be done safely. indiana,first lady of the governor did his tour of duty there before being vice president and she is making an appearance as well. the idea of these vaccines comes back to what's going to happen in three weeks.
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they will do it again. jonathan: they will have to come back in 21 days. that is the issue here. it is not about the first vaccination, it is about the second one. we need to get people to come back which speaks to the effort that this country and the world is about to go through to not just get everyone vaccinated at once, but to get them vaccinated twice. this is a huge up taking for the healthcare industry as the vice president mike pence receives his vaccination just like that. tom: i really want to point out that science is so important. we learned that with our commitment to bringing you the best in epidemiology. what it is about is the magic of the phrase mrna. these are different vaccines. they are not like the polio vaccine from the 50's. there is no way anything like the miracles we saw with typhoid
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or diphtheria. this is modern science. i go back to what all the pros told us is that the timeline is remarkable. jonathan: very much so. this market has a better future, perhaps a better reality in the back half of 2021 because of the work done in the healthcare industry and from pfizer, beyond take and now moderna. friedman,g in eric and stay with this moment. for investors for our audience worldwide, this is a really important moment because this market is positioned for a better future largely because of what has taken place in the last couple of weeks. eric: it really is. it is a market that is not only anticipating what we already have, but also the possibility of single-dose vaccines which is not really a story people have been talking about. there is the potential for
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vaccines coming in the next month and a half, not definitive, but that could be another led to the story that gets more people the vaccine more quickly which means great things for society and the economy. tom: we will continue to monitor comments of the vice president. our team is watching the tone as he addresses dr. fauci and others at the eisenhower building. i can go narrower or bigger. that may go bigger first. it has been a stupendous recovery from march. can you commit to equities and participate in the equity markets with this better news? eric: we can. we think the key point for this year will be in the second quarter and the start of the third quarter. that is when we think the fed and other banks will be tested. before then, we have a number of catalysts which i will not list out, we think that you can remain committed to equities. jonathan and the mid-and
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small-cap performance which has been remarkable, we still think there is leg to run in global equities. the potential for higher inflationary readings, we don't think inflation will run away, but we do think central bankers will be tested in the late second quarter, early third quarter to really see if they are going to stick to their guns. lisa: what do you think would be the tipping point for inflation rates to start to affect valuations and stocks and to really hold the feet to the fire? eric: the biggest thing would be number one, a move in the 10 year above 1.25 on a pronounced basis. that is something, one of the questions you asked was what will cause equities to rollover. we think they move higher interest rates would be just that. we are seeing a pickup in real yield's and that is something that is not new.
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what is also interesting is we are seeing a preponderance of negative debt readings across the globe. it is still sticky. inwe see bond yields higher an abrupt fashion, we think the banks will have to address at the very least verbally. those are the things we are looking out for. tom: if you are just joining us across this nation, eric friedman with u.s. bank wealth and we continue this moment in washington. the vice president and second lady of this nation taking the vaccine. we hope to see many more symbols like this in the coming days. eric friedman, it is about a recovery but it is a recovery with a massive labor shortfall. gauge the advantage of a stimulus and is u.s. bank wealth management assumes a second stimulus will be required if the facts -- vice president goes back to indiana. eric: we think there will be an
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appetizer and then a full entree. that is difficult to handicap. it seems like the political will is there. irrespective of what happens in georgia in the first week in january, there seems to be that bias. u.s.we are seeing across bank and our data readings is anxiety getting better but not at a rate that policymakers will be pleased with. we expect to see some moderation in political wrangling, we expect progress. we also think that polarity of vaccines and the confidence that cfos will have to execute is going to be a big driver. that keeps us in that bullish perspective. we will have to pay attention to what happens in the third and fourth quarter of next year. you can commit and be involved here. jonathan: one question we have had over the last month is how
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much bad news we will be willing to ignore because of the things that have just played out in the last 10 minutes. the vaccinations have started. the policymakers have been on top of this. the world of science is on top of this. we still lack that bridge. without that fiscal deal, without that aid package over the weekend, how much bad news would you be willing to ignore between now and the moment where it is not just the vice president getting vaccinated, but a good slice of the population? eric: i think that is a real central investment question, one that we wrestle with quite a bit. the answer is this, when we can find some more attractive alternatives to our current positioning. we think that would be predicated by higher rates. until we see a rate environment where we think we are being compensated -- not just at the corporate level, but across mortgages, broad government debt, those are levels where we
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ofld say we may swap out more growth expectations and into more safe assets. we are just not seeing that attractive point. i think one way to look at this is the risk premium framework which starts with people like me who have to decide, am i being compensated by going into something else where i have portfolios now. if we see that pickup because of concerns on the growth side, that would be a fact that could cause us to rotate. until then, we will stick with where we are. jonathan: we appreciate your time, eric friedman from u.s. bank wealth management. mike pence speaking after receiving the vaccination. he says the following, "the moderna vaccine shipping will start when approved not yet authorized, it could be within hours." you can contrast his words with the president' is raise himself. it has the following,
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been overwhelmingly approved and distribution will start immediately. tom: something has come up, the president not taking the vaccine and there is discussion that because he was ill, it is not the best thing for him to do. jonathan: from london and new york, good morning. coming up, the conversation in washington will continue. this is bloomberg. ritika: the u.s. government faces partial weekend shut down according to the senate number two republican, john thune. top leaders are working to complete a coronavirus relief deals tied to a giant government spending measure. une says some senators oppose the relief bill that might not go along with expansion which
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could lead to a shutdown. dozens of chinese companies and one of them is the country's top chipmaker, international. that is according to wilbur ross who spoke to fox news. chineseklist prevents companies from buying u.s. technology. negotiator warns that time is running out to reach a trade agreement with the european union. boris johnson says talks will fail unless the eu backs off of its stand on fishing rights. behind the scenes officials say talks are progressing and negative language can be just a negotiating ploy. fedex is trying to keep up with expectations and jumping costs to help profit margins in the second quarter and its third doubt about how much fedex will cash in from a record package delivery. shares are lower premarket. global news 24 hours a day on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in over 120 countries.
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>> i'm glad we see the stimulus is coming, i'm glad we see help for small business, i'm glad to
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see continuation of unemployment insurance, but this is not as good a bill as we could have had. it is still better than i expected two weeks ago and we should be grateful for that. summers on the prospect of a fiscal agreement in washington. we may have to have a government shutdown before we get there. we are not there yet. good morning. i'm jonathan ferro. equity market looks like this this morning. one hour and 12 minutes away from the open. equities of one point on the s&p 500. 122.68.x market, we come in .1%. the dollar coming back after a week of pronounced weakness at times against the euro and the boca g10. at 0.9%.mmon big story, that is a
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that deteriorates further through the morning. this is the nominal yields inflation expectation up up up and that means an ever more negative real yield. john farrell will advance that discussion, widely anticipated on the real yield this afternoon. right now, chatham house. i want to cut right to the chase. ofwas not just a photo shoot tip o'neill and ronald reagan, there was discourse and compromise. how do you do compromise in 2020? >> it is really tough. we are hearing that the president-elect is working on that behind the scenes. i think people believe that if anybody can do it, he certainly has the experience of working congress at a time when it will lead to bipartisanship. we are seeing the result of a verypolarized america, and
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partisan congress in trying to get the stainless through, possibly a shutdown before it gets past and a lot smaller number than people had hoped for. the fact that it is moving forward is good news. tom: do you buy the idea on the zeitgeist and after we played them a, video all the on tv and waso, the mcconnell video before the changes of last night. do you buy the idea that the senator from kentucky is shifting because of the senators in georgia? leslie: i think georgia -- there is no doubt the georgia elections are factoring. they are critical, they matter for the control of the senate and that is going to be key for the size of any packages that get through congress. i think all eyes are on january 5 and it is coming up very soon. lisa: given the fact that everyone is focused on georgia, fiscal support, the election that just happened, how much has
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focused got diverted away from the national security issue of hacks?acks -- should we be putting more emphasis on the potential for fiscal implication? leslie: this is very interesting. it is not only that it seems to be a major news item that is underplayed, it is also the ongoing issue of does president russiaant to call out and have seen that is clearly no. you are going to see a big shift of all dimensions of foreign policy. this is the one where we will see the biggest shift. ace president biden will take much tougher line on russia and he has a lot of support for that across congress and the electorate and across europe. jonathan: how will his approach different from what we saw under president obama? leslie: president obama came into office wanting to reset
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america's relationship with russia not unlike many previous presidents. he governed through 2014. that became difficult after the illegal annexation of crimea and eastern ukraine. obama's policy toward russia shifted throughout his presidency. withnk biden is coming in a much tougher dynamic. had the electoral interference of 2016. we are on the back of cyberattacks. i would imagine the question of sanctions will come up quickly. jonathan: let's talk about that now. what kind of sanctions would you expect? is an: what we often see attempt to isolate individuals and organizations and work out who is to blame i think part of that is going to -- there is a question right now of whether we will see these kind of sanctions right now. i think it is less likely the cause of the current distractions. i think we will see some
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targeted -- we will see a question of whether or not there will be targeted sanctions. tom: how abrupt will it be? it is fascinating to see this shift from what anybody believes about president trump over to a president biden who had a lot of experience. had -- how abrupt will that shift be? are someverall there things that are going to be in line, a tougher position on china, that has happened during the course of the trump presidency. that will continue i think it will be much more leveraged and comprehensive. really the china focus has been on the tariff war, trade, technology, those will continue. i don't think we will see a listing of tariffs but i think we will see a much harder line and a much more comprehensive look at market access and all of the broader issues as well as the question of democracy and human rights. on trade, it will remain tough
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but i think russia will see a change. we will clearly see a return to multilateralism and a new form of engagement with one eye back on what the implications are for investment or on america, democracy, investment in infrastructure, really bringing forward that economic recovery. we are going to see american leadership and it will be focused on fixing things at home. it will look different to the rest of the world and it will look very different to those of us sitting here in the u.k. and in europe. jonathan: we will move on quickly. we appreciate your time this morning. thank you. that withoutugh talking about brexit. jonathan: we did. tom: that's great. jonathan: we will leave it that way. i will be off next week. you can spend the whole week talking about it. jon. come on,
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jonathan: you are excited about it, lisa. just you two, how long are you on the air together next week for? lisa: five hours every day. stop laughing. jonathan: i think brexit would be good for you. i hope that they wrap up the deal so you literally have nothing else to talk about next week apart from brexit. tom: [laughter] lisa: we can just talk about deadlines the whole time. jonathan: you will get me in trouble. moderna, the vaccine could be administered by monday or tuesday. that is the hope of dr. fauci. tom: that is an important headline. when you go to capri, you have to quarantine? jonathan: i wish i was going to capri, but i'm not. if i do get there again, hopefully it is in the summer and we are vaccinated and i will send you pictures.
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i booked theis, flight the other day. lisa: to new york? jonathan: i booked a new york to milan flight for next summer. that is very bullish. this is bloomberg. every year, we set out to do one thing: help the world believe in holiday magic. and this year was harder than ever. and yet, somehow, you all found a way to pull it off. it's not about the toys or the ornaments but about coming together. santa, santa, you're on mute! just wanted to say thanks. thanks for believing.
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>> we have had some good news in terms of vaccines and a chance to overcome the health crisis, but we are not there yet. >> we need fiscal stimulus and we need it quickly because i can see where the second wave is coming, we can see consumer spending getting impacted again. >> what we need is we need surveillance to be stronger, we need public health measures because this is your best weapon. >> the good news is that both the vaccines and the therapeutics and antibodies are coming along and will start to bring that number down. >> we don't just need more investment in public health, we must also rethink how we value health. >> i believe a targeted stimulus is going to be in order to begin
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a more equalized economy. ♪ york, i givem new you all a piece of advice. do not talk about a vacation you might have booked live on air when you're managers might be watching and you have not requested the time off. over.omething to mull equities, record highs across the board. tom: are we together next year? jonathan: i hope. maybe i won't be with you. equities all times high -- all time highs. the russell advancing after a 7th street week of gains. the longest week all the way back to 2019. the bond market quickly, reading well. behaved in the treasury market even without that maturity that people were expecting around the
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asset purchase program of the fed. 10 year yield, 0.9%. up on the week a little bit. maybe it is data holding us back, the wrong side of ups on jobless claims. let's focus on this, euro in the fx market. tom keene's favorite currency pair. you've got all that global synchronized growth and on the inside you have risk aversion. what has happened over the last few months, euro-yen for the highs of 2020, highs going all the way back to early 2019. that is a stronger euro and a weaker japanese yen. this one is looking a little bit stretched. any kind of risk aversion that bubbles away perhaps into the new year, that one could be in for a snapback. tom: we will see, looking at euro-yen. what we do on surveillance is try to do back-to-back conversations.
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we don't always succeed, but it has been good let -- good recently. right now we have robin rodgers paperg us on an important wrapped around his book. both of these gentlemen experience, dr. hooper running research at deutsche bank. how have you amended and changed your american labor and economic outlook off of the horrific claims report we saw yesterday? we have been below consensus on our forecast. we were expecting to see some slowdowns going into the end of runoffs given both the in the fiscal support but more importantly, the acceleration of covid. that weakness did not come as a surprise. our forecast has been a
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consensus that the positive news and on business of capitalpments business to cause us to mark things up a little bit. things looking really weak both for the labor market and for consumer spending near term. the retail sales numbers we got in october and the drop november and the disappointment overall. down the line, what we were expecting. tom: tell me about the inflation call. it is one thing about an epidemic to participate about it -- pontificate about it. you guys are estimating price change. how are you shifting the call? peter: we have been expecting to see inflation rise at a lopez. there is increasing concern in the markets by the possibly of a surge next year and pent up
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demand drives consumer spending back up. a lot of consumers have been sitting on spending and savings have been gone -- have gone up. you are talking 10% in consumer spending that could take a big jump. in price in a jump some areas and jay powell will likely talk about this. that is not going to touch off a big increase in inflation. rental inflation is low and likely to remain low. even healthcare inflation is likely to be a drag as insurance rates come down. overall we are anticipating a getting inflation up --m the 1.6 range currently it is still below 2% as we look a couple of years out. lisa: how much would your economic forecast change if the democrats take the georgia race,
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get leadership in the senate and pass some sort of trillion --lar info structure package infrastructure package? peter: that is a plus for growth but it is not a huge change. georgia does make a very important difference but it is not going to mean a huge shift in fiscal policy. if the democrats take georgia, it is the center of the party that the centrists or the more conservative wing of the party that controls things. general mansion will be in the driver seat. you are not going to see a huge increase. you are not going to see a $2 trillion package. you are not going to see the senate get rid of the filibuster and allow many of the things that could otherwise have because the economy to get back to and above pre-virus trends
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quickly and begin to get inflation up much more rapidly. yes, it is a plus, but not a big one. lisa: some slightly out of consensus, other people saying they expect that to be radiated and added into their economic forecast. how much do you think expectations for additional support package, how much is that factoring into outlooks that are too optimistic? peter: there is a factor there. as the georgia race has drawn closer, certainly that is contributing. point the more important factor is how quickly can the economy get back to normal with the vaccines. economic forecasters rarely have the event like this with the tunnel otherwise looking so dark in the near term, but the light
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shining this brightly. the prospects for getting back to something like normal economic activity by the second half of next year certainly is the realriving excitement in the markets. jonathan: stick with us. i want to bring some headlines from a bank of england official in the last hour. thegative rates could help u.k. replete the country. any rate cut must be 10 basis points to work." this was the move on yield for the front end. the whole curve is sinking what your two year yield is now -10 basis points in the u.k., down five basis points on the session. what is interesting about this right now, it is not just that they are looking at possibly doing this, it is this theory
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that negative interest rates can be helpful and taking every spot -- taking a spot in the recovery, something i've heard a couple of times now, that negative rates help you coming out of the downturn to complete the recovery as opposed to using the upfront all at once at the very start. tom: it is just like sports, you make your luck and if -- and as peter hooper of deutsche bank is with us, it is really important. hooper, they have been out front on thinking about the timing of negative rate policy and the magnitude of economic policy. there is an assumption that negative rates do not clear systems and improve economies unless you get enough magnitude of negative interest rates. have we been too shy and reticent about using that tool
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where we are doing here and there? we're at the point was policy where we are beginning to push on the string. rates loweriple, does have some impact, but it has significant costs. maybe less in the u.k. but in the u.s., the fed is not -- they are not going to go anywhere near this. we are concerned about what the marketsould be on money , on the financial sector more broadly. households looking at negative returns on deposits as banks again to pass them through, a number of countries have decided this is not the way to go. jonathan: i am not sure of the housing market in the u.k. needs more juice, the united states either.
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we appreciate your time. peter hooper at deutsche bank. 11, the pound against the u.s. dollar. it is this line i find amazing from central bankers. the risk of negative rates being counterproductive is low. it seems to me that something happens when you arrive at a central bank that you are the only people that believe that line is true because everyone 99%,comes on this program, if they are not a central banker, they don't believe that line. tom: it is confusing to our listeners end-users in that we say -- our listeners and viewers. there has not been nearly enough talk about somebody who walks into a central bank and forgets about the ramifications for the financial system and that can be -- could not be underscored enough. that has been a huge issue in europe. i cannot calibrate the size of
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the effect on commercial banking in europe. jonathan: i know someone who loves negative interest rates, lease or rates -- lisa abramowicz. lisa: this is a question about income. if you are unable to actually earn something on your money, that reduces inflation, that reduces the ability to spend, it reduces the prospects for retirees and governments and tension. how can that not be a negative impact economically? jonathan: was that president erdogan or lisa abramowicz? lisa: did you just compare me -- jonathan: that sounded like -- lisa: no. hold on a second, this is one theory out there. jonathan: you said low rates are holding back inflation. i want to get that on record. lisa: low rates and negative rates are two different things. jonathan: ok. lisa: the idea that banks are
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not earning anything -- never mind. we can discuss this at break. jonathan: it is ok. lisa: it is one theory out there. [laughter] tom: i hope martinez bounces back this season. that would be good. a little early. that may put my watch on. jonathan: the former bank of india governor. this is bloomberg. audience live tv watched as vice president pence received a coronavirus vaccine. the vice president said he did not feel anything. also being vaccinated, his wife and surgeon general jerome adams. hopesy fauci tells nbc he the second vaccine will be available next week.
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the moderna shot was approved by panel. theter los angeles is now hardest hit metropolitan area in the u.s. when it comes to the coronavirus. l.a. county has an average 1100 cases per million residents. san bernardino county has 1400. new york was the hardest hit area in the pandemic's first months but rural areas have been hit the hardest. the coronavirus pandemic is hitting meatpackers across north america and they are trying to avoid the shutdowns that left supermarket shelves empty earlier in the outbreak. target has closed one of its plants in canada. also some workers tested positive. kbs says thousands of vulnerable employees -- sent employees home on paid leave. we are getting a better view of how long the cyberattacks by russian hackers is. authorities have warned the a threat to the
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private sector. microsoft says systems were exposed to malware and at least three governments were hacked. global news 24 hours a day on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in over 120 countries. i am rid it could go duck, this is bloomberg. up mym critical grouped god >> i think this whole notion of shifting the framework is going to be quite messy for the fed down the world -- down the road. i am sympathetic to them on some level. i don't know why they had to go down this path. jonathan: a fantastic conversation on this program. the capital markets chief economist on the federal reserve. we are almost there -- a bit later.
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university, all of the above. what a resume. he will be joining us in 15 minutes. lisa: look at how happy he is. tom: you were so wound up. the odds of you having to reshoot the real yield, you will be here until tonight. itathan: i'm going to record on the steps of the royal exchange in front of the bank of england. tom: we hope capri as well. jonathan: thank you. what a wonderful year it has been with you guys. lisa: have fun. the cast will be back next year. tom: he is leaving. goodbye. we miss him so much. let's do this right now. this is important as we greet mr. ferro. if i had a look of the summer
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come -- summer, sometimes it is so far out front, i would have to make it a book of the year. i have never made a book of the year after a book of the summer. at booth school of chicago. it is the third killer which is extraordinary. prescientsingle most economic book i've ever seen. it is on community. whether it is community or corporations understanding that we need community, he joins us this morning. congratulations on leading the way in this pandemic. group of 30t done a survey on what corporations need to deal. what is the community are corporations need to find? dr. rajan: at this point the
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worry is there are a lot of business out there and household districts also. to say ast is trying we come to terms with the pandemic, how do we deal with the massive amounts of distress which is under right now, especially small and medium corporations, but in many emerging markets. the report is a wake-up call that we should start preparing our tools now because they will be needed in big measure. tom: they will be needed in big measure. lisa will talk about the clearing of markets and the zombies out there. do we have a financial system now that can incentivize corporations correctly or have where they cannot operate in a normal fall process
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-- normal thought process? dr. rajan: we have opened the floodgates to anything that has appeared false. that is the credit programs as well as the low interest rates as well as the massive amount of purchases of securities in the market. it is hard to tell who really deserves to stay afloat given that they have a viable business going forward, who is struggling to stay and who does not have a viable business and we are just keeping them on life support. to quick and easy decision supply liquidity was important. there was not time to make more detailed decisions. as time goes on, we will have to make more careful decisions because society cannot afford
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the amount of resources that are being poured into the system. lisa: what are some of the tools that you foresee policymakers using to determine which companies are truly viable and which are zombies that need to dive? -- to die? dr. rajan: policymakers are not in the best ways to make these decisions. they have to rely on the opinion of markets and the private sector to get this started up again. the question is one of course to start using various private-sector opportunities in a less aggressive way. if you are offering guarantees to small and medium enterprises which a lot of european countries have done, can you scale back those guarantees and make them not on the basis of individual loans but on portfolios so that you give the lenders some incentive to pick and choose. that would be one example.
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there would be a need for equity because we have reached limits of leverage. can you find better ways through partnerships? we have had partnerships after the financial crisis, the public-private investment partnerships we had in the u.s. for example. can you invest along with the private sector and which partners do you choose and how do you measure performance debt because it has to be transparent. you could use those as ways of infusing equity. you might want to infuse equity only after you have some debt restructuring. can we find easier ways of debt restructuring for small and medium enterprises and do we --nge the bankruptcy loans laws. in another countries the laws are focused on liquidating rather than restructuring. we need a lot of out-of-court restructuring but with the
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bankruptcy laws as a backdrop in case that does not work and those bankruptcy laws have to be more favorable to survival. these are things we need to take care of now if we are to remove the overhang of zombie companies but also excessive debt on surviving companies. lisa: this sounds really logical, methodological, it sounds like it is thought out and yet i am struggling to see us move out of a regime where you give liquidity to everything that has a pulse and we somehow avoid torpedoing markets that are relying on that liquidity going to everything that has a pulse. dr. rajan: it is a question of timing. ensure there is to is light at the end of the , two metaphors going into the tunnel. at that point, you start moving the regime gently toward a system where this amount of support will be off the table.
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at this point, we have a debate in washington about whether the fed should move abruptly from supporting a variety of these programs that they already in. that decision to be -- should be made by the fed more generally and in discussion with congress. it makes sense to do it when the , wheny is back on track the uncertainty is off the table rather than when the uncertainty is building even further because the pandemic is expanding. , theyou have a chapter pressure to promise. ao do corporations owe promise to? obviously, shareholders, executives, who do they owe a promise of a better society to? dr. rajan: one of the arguments i make in the book is society
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changes. it is not the same society it late 1980's and 1990's. there is far more pressure from society today on corporations. even if they are acting in the interest of their shareholders, there are some things they need to do to keep attracting young people into the companies to do the right thing by their employees. today there is a lot more pressure on them to make sure that the employees are appropriately skilled for what is to come, to invest in training in a much bigger way than they used to in the 1980's and 1990's. this is also something in the interest of society, it is something that customers are paying attention to. they are trying to ask what are your green policies and if you work for a corporation that does not have reasonable green
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policies, then the employees start getting antsy. what i am saying is that even if you are managing in the interest of your shareholders which i think is an important focus for corporate leaders, it entails taking into account both your community as well as your supplies. well as you don't make a statement, we are going to feed everybody because that really means you are feeding nobody well. but you pick and choose the stakeholders you want to focus on and you try and work towards them. tom: congratulations on this effort was a group of 30. raghuram rajan, the former governor of booth school in chicago. we could go on and on. lisa, your thoughts, i feel so alone. lisa: i am still here. i have not checked out. tom: it is you and i alone now.
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thatt see you smile like -- lisa: [laughter] we can just take it from here and go forward. you're going to be talking nonstop. i will say, i am looking forward next week. it is a big week. tesla is going to be included in the s&p. that is a huge deal. tom: there is real criticism about this. howard is against it. lisa: there is a question, a stock that has so volatile that it has returned 600% this year, this idea that this volatility is going to be included in the s&p as a major constituent. people are talking, is this a trojan horse, what is this going to do. ferro never would have thought of that ending for the hour. you nailed that. lisa: you are going to be constantly jabbing.
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tom: i have never been to capri. he is going to be styling. lisa: shorts, pants, nice socks. tom: the capri pants. i get it. and anrg television exclusive conversation. this is bloomberg.
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london,m new york and good morning, good morning. the countdown to the open starts now with equity futures up three points, we begin with the big issue, equity markets hitting full-time highs with fiscal talks running down the clock. >> we have yet to nail down every detail. >> a few final issues must hammered out. >> we need to finish up and get the bill out the door. details really matter. >> we are close to a point that rises in every major negotiation. >> we are close to an agreement. >> do we want to let negotiations lose staying? > the time for debate is over, let's get this done. >> none of the remaining hurdles cannot be overcome. >> we are going to stay right here, right here, until we are finished. >> we will not leave until we get the job done. >> even if that means working through the weekend, which is highly likely. >> everyone


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