tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg April 6, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT
beyond right and food delivery. and bitcoin 2022 is underway in miami. allow that in a moment. let's get a look at the markets. -- all of that in a moment. after a huge spike in shares, how are investors feeling about twitter today? >> it is definitely the story of the week. twitter over the last three days, you are looking at the rally that elon musk built. shares are up almost 30%. they did decline a little bit today, but held off in a broad-based selloff. you can see the yield curve held onto its steepening trend. the long bonds continuing to sell off. oil prices, you saw crude oil dip low $100 per barrel.
it is down 5.6% this session. meanwhile, volatility is up. it was the chip stocks underperformers today. the philadelphia semiconductor index down 2.3%. this is part of a broader selloff we have been watching all year. nvidia, amd, qualcomm all down double digits than some. the philadelphia semiconductor index down 19% year-to-date. definitely a sector to watch. emily: thank you for that round up. i want to come back to the big story, elon musk joining the board of twitter 24 hours after his 9.2% stake in the company was disclosed. i want to dig deeper into this with our guest. great to have you with us.
it has been a whirlwind 72 hours. elon musk has filed to become an active investor in twitter, not just a passive investor meaning that he will advocate for changes. what influenced you think you will have on the platform? how will twitter change customer ? guest: there are a lot of predictions that people could make, but one thing that is particularly interesting is the possibility he will join jack dorsey and the current ceo in promoting decentralized models, promoting ways to allow third parties to come in and offer different content moderation systems on top of twitter or different content ranking systems which would be an important shift. emily: twitters blue sky project which is a push for decentralized standard for central -- social media that is
funded by twitter, is this something that twitter would take on and what specifically would you be looking to change? guest: the upside of the project is that it would let twitter users pick the tools -- speech rules they want to live under. they could they could choose a disney flavor or if the rules on harassment -- all of these things would allow twitter to step back from being the one gatekeeper that decides the rules and bring in lots of different options for users. you can see elon musk who was talked about open sourcing the algorithms and is broadly interested in decentralization liking that. on the other hand, you can see him liking consolidated control and preferring a world where twitter does set the rules. it's a wait and see situation for short.
-- for sure. you can see project blue sky bringing in more options for users as a counterpart of facebook's oversight board. in both cases, it is the platform saying we are uneasy being the decider especially on issues where someone is going to be angry no matter what we do. facebook's answer was to keep extremely centralized, fund it with facebook on and build an oversight board. twitter's answer was blue sky potentially to say let's decentralized. let's put lots of people in charge and devolve control to the users so they can choose what they want and move the cost
incidentally of the content moderation out onto other competitors so it's not sitting with twitter where it is very expensive and difficult as part of their business right now. emily: what could this mean for free speech on twitter? take a listen to a professor from syracuse university when i asked her how this could change how twitter handles free speech. >> it's not about free speech. if anything, twitter has become more about elong -- elon musk speech. if anything, he has figured out this is a powerful platform. maybe he took some notes from mark zuckerberg and others you need to have some influence over a platform. emily: do you think this is more about elon musk speech? how could this influence future
moderation efforts at twitter? guest: it would be more about his speech if we stay in the world of twitter being a single centralized point of control over the rules. if we don't go into this decentralized direction we have been talking about for a few years, and instead there is just one decider in the middle, then elon musk's role is really important. i don't think we should foresee a world where twitter becomes a free speech mosh pit free-for-all. they are not going to make money that way. if you get onto twitter and help a bunch of racist comments or bullying or spam or all of these things users don't like and advertisers don't like, that is not away to retain users or to be profitable. i don't think we should imagine a world where if anything goes
on twitter. at most, it's a world where twitter still imposes its own rules, but they are more influenced by elon musk but intentionally another direction where twitter steps back and gives users choice. you can choose to live under twitters rules or other rules. emily: that brings me to the question of donald trump and could this open a door to him coming back to twitter after being permanently banned? i asked the cfo this question several times over the past year. is there a path for donald trump to come back to him or listen to what he had to say. >> once someone is removed from twitter, there is not a path for them to come back. that is true for public officials and anyone else who uses the service. emily: donald trump in a lawsuit back in january said twitter has increasingly engaged in an
permissible censorship, the immediacy of its threat to users and every citizen's right to free speech cannot be overstated. twitter censorship results in a chilling effect on our nations discussions. does he have a point and do you see elon musk coming back? could they reopen this question of whether he should be on the platform? guest: former president trump does not have a legal point. as a legal point, this lawsuit is nonsense because private platforms do not owe you first amendment protection. as a matter of public policy and things that we care about, is it a problem that there is a small handful of dry -- giant companies that have a chokehold of -- over what information we can share? yes. people are right about that. i can imagine a future where
twitters version of its content moderation continues to have former president trump banned for life but there are alternatives. a lens on twitter offered by a competitor that allows him to come back then people can choose which of those universes they want to live in. emily: so you think that twitter could find a middle ground when it comes to president trump? guest: imagine the users can choose from 50 different flavors of content moderation. one version of that is an entirely federated system meaning there is no centralized control. in that version, anyone can build a system where president trump does come back and it's a question of whether users want to sign up for that. what's more plausible as the future development with project blue sky is a model where
twitter takes some things down at the center like things that are illegal or honoring notices then what is left goes out to the competing offers of content moderation services and they can decide among those things that are left. like how reddit does central content moderation but most of the decisions are made by different subreddits applying their own different policies. twitter could choose to say we will take down all of the illegal stuff at the center so no one can see it and also some things violate our own policies so badly that we are going to keep that down permanently for all of the competing flavors of content moderation. i don't think that would be a wise step. emily: 31 flavors. we will see if twitter moves in that direction. thank you.
elon musk's swift assent from shareholder to board member could catch the eye of the sec. the commission is demanding more transparency and ratcheting up fines for breaking rules. here to talk about that is matt robinson. is there any indication the sec is looking at this yet? >> not yet, but they are looking at elon musk and his brother for potential insider trading issues from last fall. the sec and elon musk go back quite a few years from 2018 with his infamous funding secured tweet and the penalty and settlement that limits his ability to talk about his company on the platform. emily: elon musk initially found to be a passive investor, now we know he is change that to become an active investor. it he started buying shares back in january.
the ceo said they have been talking for weeks. now, it could be months. what is significant about that to you when it comes to the interest of the sec? >> different filings that investors have to disclose, 13 g which is a passive stake, someone who doesn't have interest in making business plans or changes then 13 d which is what he filed yesterday. there is room for an investor to go from one to the other. the passive to the active side. by updating that, that's fine. the issue that he might find himself and is as soon as you hit my percent, you have to disclose within 10 calendar days and it looks like you may have missed that window. that is a technical violation that he could see some issues, but the sec is generally, they
don't generally bring those cases unless it's repeated failures. emily: how quickly could the sec move on this? >> it could be quick. in 2018, it was early august that he wrote fun secured. the fact and the motivation from the sec, if they feel like this is an orton case to bring, this is going to show -- that this is an important case to bring, you have to take these rules seriously and promptly. emily: matt robinson, thank you. coming up pushing over to become the -- pushing uber to become the travel app.
customer perspective? guest: it is going to be a one-stop shop for transportation. we were able to get a cab to the airport, now you can hail or book the next train ride or your bus from whatever city you are going to. is going to become a much more comprehensive travel hub. for uber, this is the next step in their super app strategy. this is not something that is completely new. they telegraphed this back into thousand 18. there was a big idea that it could become a super app. when you think about it, it is not a concept well-known to westerners, but in huge. this is a major step
jumpstarting the efforts. emily: he talked about the vision to deliver the future of delivery and food. >> what we are doing is building the largest social commerce and transportation platform on earth. writers get the ability -- the ease to go get anything, same id same payments and of the locations you like to go or restaurants that you love. emily: it all sounds good, but how could this help uber's bowel mine -- bottom line? >> when you think about this long-distance move, it's going to be done by using travel
aggregators. uber is taking a cut out of that sale. it's a high-margin strategy where they are the ones -- to get the plane or the train, the actual hardware, they are just facilitating the sale for customers that are already engaged on their app. when you think about the different ways that uber can tap people's lives, you can book a restaurant, take a ride to the restaurant, paid for the meal, the opportunity for growth is very significant. emily: what does this mean for competition? especially even that this is launching in the u.k.. there are big travel competitors like expedia. what does it mean for the rest of the industry? guest: for direct competitors like lyft, a long distance rollout if it were to reach
north america, it would be a huge blow for lyft who doesn't have the kind of cushion that uber has with its food delivery business. when you think about the marketplaces that are also vying to keep their customers on the app longer whether it's doordash or instacart, this is going to be a significant challenge especially if uber is looking to do all the things in the app. if it's a ride or a meal, convenience items, retail. rapid delivery. it's going to up the ante for marketplaces and rideshare rivals to find ways to keep comfort -- customers on the app. emily: coming up, we will meet the newest star of twitch and talk about why the m&a avatar -- m&a -- anime avatar is part of
emily: she is one of the most popular stars on twitch. meet iron mouse. she plays some of the most popular games but also sings karaoke and cracked jokes. for more on the rise of her and others, i am joined by my next guest. who is iron mouse and why is she so popular? >> she is an anonymous puerto rican woman who became popular on twitch and youtube for livestreaming herself as a virtual anime character. she is on a camera that gets fed through animation software and
this is what you see. emily: what do we know about the woman behind the character? guest: we don't know anything about the woman behind the character. she is protected for her own safety. emily: talk to us about the rise of the tubers -- vtubers. guest: it has become a sensation over the last couple of years with a 467% increase between 2020 and 2021. the fans love it. emily: we have talked a lot about the rise of youtubers and the money they can make. is there money to be made here?
guest: for a select few, there is money to be made. there are brands who have invested in them particularly in japanese vtubers, companies like sega have been involved. the first one has done enormous deals with the japanese tourism agency. generally speaking, it is a competitive field and only the top people with the best technology will succeed on the level that ironmouse has. emily: fascinating, we will have to try to learn more details. thank you for sharing that. coming up, they just raised nearly $2 billion. that's up next. ♪
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emily: what goes up must come down. my next guest things tech evaluations have gotten ahead of themselves and has launched a new fund. joining me now is mitchell green. how do you think valuations are hanging right now? are they too high and what's next? guest: thank you for having me. are we talking public or private
company valuations? emily: both. guest: anybody watching the markets has seen especially in the software internet world the public valuations have come down fairly dramatically. you wouldn't know it in the indices given how much is weighted toward large-cap companies like apple and microsoft and facebook and google. underneath those companies like snowflake or toast, these companies have come down hugely dramatically. public companies tend to lead private company valuations and we are starting to see private company valuations decline. you have a lot of crossover hedge funds that have entered the space over the last five years and we're looking at large deals right now. it six months ago, they would have been swarmed.
by crossover public investors. depressed valuations and less competition should be a good time to deploy money. emily: how do you plan to put this new $1.95 billion to work? guest: the same way we have been for many years. we deployed our last fund in like 15 months. we want this fund to take 2.5 years to three years to invest. continuing to do what we do. we are primarily western european north american investors. we have done some stuff in asia. primarily, u.s. and western european and israeli based
companies. emily: when you look at valuations, are you changing your own bar in terms of what is reasonable? do you think more broadly we are going to see a lot of air get let out of the balloon? guest: since -- our biggest mistake to be clear over the last five to 10 years was not predicting multiple expansions. had we, we would have made billions of dollars more than we did. the way we make investments is we make models. then we slap a reasonable earnings and revenue multiple on it and discount back. there were a bunch of deals over the last, a bunch of deals got done in 2021 that we could not
figure out how people work underwriting these valuations. when we stuck in our multiples that with our reasonable, we couldn't get there. we use the historical average multiple and we will continue to do that. in fund five, we had only done one or two deals in the bay area. other deals in random places around the world. in fund six, you will cs do more stuff on the coast because i think valuations are getting to be more reasonable. emily: fast just closed shop yesterday saying they ran out of money. are we going to see this happen more often? guest: i'm sure you will.
we have this one criteria that is super important us called capital efficiency. it is like our version of return on equity. are your revenues today, are your recurring revenues or annual recurring revenue greater or equal to the amount of money you burned since day one of business? may be raised a bunch of money, but it sitting in the bank don't blame the entrepreneur. the world is littered with $30 million revenue companies that have burned $100 million to get there. what we want to find his companies that are $30 million in revenues that have burned $10 million to get there. those are companies that you know are just not going to fall off a cliff.
you can grow fast and not burn much money, you have a good business. in every deal that we invest in, we rate it is it capital efficient or not? the vast majority of the companies we invest in our. -- are. emily: what are your thoughts on the crypto industry? guest: it's a giant bubble. we have looked at some of the stuff and crypto. more the picks and shovels businesses. emily: where do you see the giant bubble? guest: we think the right rate is $60,000 or $500. when i have lots of friends who tell me they know nothing about investing and i should invest in
crypto, that's a bubble to meet. -- that's a bubble to me. someone told me every fraudster in the world is in crypto. if you believe crypto is the next internet, then you might see a drawdown of 90% or 80%, but this stuff is real. i think a lot of it is overhyped and is not justified at all in fundamental investing. i think it's here to stay. one interesting thing is it's really volatile. when i saw that tesla was enabling you to pay for a tesla in bitcoin, i thought that was super cool. the problem is, the reason they got rid of it and you haven't
seen amazon and other retailers accept it is the currency is to volatile. there has been something like 10 days where bitcoin has moved 10% in one day. the biggest u.s. dollar move ever has been like 1.5% and it has happened five times. things are to volatile right now, but i think they are real. emily: interesting monologue there. strong opinions, we will see how you put your money to work. meantime, a billionaire investor says once the fed takes a pause, bitcoin could take off again. or in his words, the coin goes to the moon. he says bitcoin will eventually hit a price of $1 million. it was trading today at a little over $44,000.
open-source elements and allow a way for new people to come in and maybe import their own algorithm? emily: time now for our crypto report. she was saying it's a good thing for twitter that elon musk is on board. i want to dig into the story with sonali basak. once you hear how the cryptocurrency is digesting elon musk joining the board of twitter, he has been such a loud figure in the community. there's a huge crypto community on twitter and the future of twitter could be more decentralized. >> it was interesting to hear her talk about it from the decentralized social network standpoint. you can also think about it from a commerce standpoint. twitter has already started to integrate pieces of the lightning network to make things possible through the network which is very popular when it
comes to bitcoin and payment transfers. the idea of decentralizing social media, there are a lot of projects out there that people try to use when it comes to media and decentralization. there is still -- they are still in early days. emily: stay with us, i want to bring in our next guest live from miami. the ceo and chairman of ledger. give us a flavor of bitcoin 2022 this year. it was big last year. is it bigger this year and what are people talking about? guest: this year is very intense. last year, i couldn't come because i am european and i was not allowed to travel to the u.s.. what people tell me is this year's or intense bed last year. we are post-pandemic. i have talked to people that i
have only met online so far and it's a happy moment. it is going very strong with a lot of support from all communities owing toward bitcoin. emily: ledger is known for its crypto hardware while it. -- wallet. how is this new? better? improved? guest: cryptocurrencies are evolving. with the evolution of the protocols and application, you need new hardware to enhance the experience. the ledger is a result of that. you need more space, usability. this is what is happening. it was a product that was long overdue. there are many more products coming for ledger in the future. emily: there have been a lot more instances of scams and hacks. how is ledger attacking what is
happening here and can you keep up the technology that hackers are using to get into new spaces? guest: yes of course, a hacker is always hacking in the same way. people are understanding that they need hardware security to secure their assets. it's a fundamental truth of your currency, nft, anything with private key needs hardware security. people need to learn and sometimes they learn the hard way and we are sorry for that. when it comes to nft, it is treated as a first-class citizen. you have 25% to 40% of all nft's that are already secured by ledger. the community is responding well. >> there is news of jack dorsey working on hardware wallets. are you nervous about that and how does that change the
competition? guest: competition is always welcome. it means there is a space. ledger is a very strong company. there are a few manufacturers in the world, but the fact that jack dorsey, this is good. we talk to them and i feel that what they are doing is something that is bitcoin mainly and within the realm of what block and square are doing, ledger is a holistic approach. we are a hardware mallet -- hardware wallet manufacturer. we can't be bitcoin only, we are multi-chain. manufacturers like us worry about the experience in the future. we are focused on the journey of the user and we want to support every community in crypto and
that's where we are different from everyone else. >> there's a big community in crypto on twitter. i'm curious what you think about elon musk joining the board twitter given his thoughts on decentralization and his own role in the crypto community? guest: where it strikes me the most is elon musk is amazing. it -- freedom is a concept that he is standing behind. freedom of speech. the reason why he is big on decentralization is because it brings freedom to the people. freedom is motivating here and it is what ledger is all about. we want to empower people with tools so they can reclaim their self sovereignty on what they want to own whether it's bitcoin
or an nft. i am very aligned with elon musk's move. he is freedom and so are we. emily: you don't always hear the words beautiful and troll together. guest: he's an internet genius. when we talk about him being a promoter of crypto, i don't think being a promoter is -- of those going is the best --doge is the best for bitcoin, but he is an internet magician and you have to respect that. >> >> the issue of security and big names like elon musk when it comes to potential crypto and twitter and jack dorsey getting deeper into crypto, what are you
seeing in terms of institutional interest and what is stopping people at the end of the day from really getting in? guest: nothing is stopping people to get in. we just got into a circle, whether you look at cryptocurrency or nft's, the next thing will be play to earn. everybody is coming in from a retail perspective but also from an institutional perspective. i have been in this game since 2014 and no one is doubting crypto or bitcoin or watching technology. everybody wants in. you have an amazing phenomenon because it is worldwide. everyone is getting in from everywhere in the world and it's very unique because it's the first time everyone everywhere in the world is getting into the
same technology so this is why you see so much momentum happening right now. emily: we will let you get back to bitcoin miami. thank you for taking the time. coming up, online events aren't over just yet with apple holding its worldwide developers conference virtually for the third time in a row. that's coming up next. this is bloomberg. ♪
pre-pandemic norms. apple has been leading a push to come back to its office for apple employees. why hold this virtually again? >> they really had no choice. covid is not predictable. these shows take several months to put together. they either have to put three months of time into developing an in person version or online version. it's hard to put all of your effort even if you're splitting across both so they have to pick one direction. in person is just not safe at this point. who knows what could happen one week or the date of the event. it would have to go online only and the compromise is they will allow a small number of people in the steve jobs theater to watch prerecorded video live. emily: when are you expecting the substance will be?
what will be the big announcements? >> it's going to be a fairly strong apple developer conference. they are scheduled to release new macs including the macbook air. that will be a very big deal. there are lots of fans of that and this will be the biggest redesign and the product history and we will have a new version of the apple in house chips. we are also looking for upgrades on the apple watch as well as an update to ios 16 although not a full-blown redesign. there could be conversation about ar and vr applications ahead of a larger reveal of the mixed reality hardware later this year or next year. emily: you've been reporting on apple's return to the office and pushback from employees. how is this evolving? could you see apple losing talent when other companies are also pushing for people to come
back? >> next week is the deadline to start returning to the office if you are an apple corporate employee. they will start one day per week on april 11 then a few weeks after that, two days per week. before the end of may, they will expect employees in the office mondays, tuesdays, and thursdays. there are a few hundred employees leaving apple over that policy but we should note that apple has over 160,000 employees. this is a small number of people altogether. the interesting thing to me is that apple put out a nine minute advertisement touting how great its own products, software, and services are for remote work yet it is requiring the people who developed those products to return to the office. a little bit of irony there. emily: as always, great to have you. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology."
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>> good morning, welcome to daybreak australia. we are counting down to asia's market open. >> the fed lays out its plan to shrink its balance sheet, reducing assets by more than one chilling dollars a year as we look to ease inflation. >> u.s. stocks and bonds fall as traders flock to risk off sectors.
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