tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg June 21, 2022 11:00pm-12:00am EDT
with emily chang. emily: i'm emily chang in san francisco and this is bloomberg technology. coming up, elon musk tells bloomberg there are still unresolved matters when it comes to his bid for twitter. he believes a recession is likely. we bring you our conversation with the tesla ceo from the qatar economic forum in delhi. a first for apple. workers in maryland vote to unionize. we talk to the former chair of the national labor relations board about whether the iphone maker should brace for a wave of union votes at stores around the world. monetizing meta-. how the company is shifting priorities and its algorithm in an effort to chase tiktok. we look at all of that in a moment. u.s. stocks rebounding after
last week's trillion dollar slide on the s&p 500. katie greifeld here to walk us through the day. take it away. kati: it was a broad rally today. s&p 500 and nasdaq 100 finishing 2.5% higher. you did see yields continue to climb. look at the 10 year treasury yield, finishing five basis points higher today. you are looking, breaking below 30 at one point. finishing above 30. still volatility exiting the market as we saw stocks rebound. within the rally, to stocks caught my eye. tesla and twitter. we heard elon musk in conversation with bloomberg news editor-in-chief john micklethwait. on the twitter front, you heard musk say that there is a few unresolved matters with the twitter deal, leaving questions there. twitter shares finishing 3%
higher. tesla, even more so. layoffs have started at tesla. the company plans to lay off 10% of its salaried workforcever the next three months. a big rally in tesla shares, finishing over 9% higher. if you zoom away from today's rally, we know that tech has had a really tough time this year. look at the s&p 500. top 10 largest tech companies are down about 30% so far this year. you are looking at the top 10 largest non-tech companies in the s&p 500. that's the white line, down over 2%. we will see if this rally can sustain itself as other areas of the market begin to come under pressure here. emily: thanks for that. i want to take a look at the crypto market now. bitcoin drama stirring hope for some relief from the crypto.
sonali basak here to break it all down. is it going to keep up? sonali: a lift and bitcoin. sunday brought more than 60% lift and bitcoin prices. now you are looking at a 2% rise in the last 24 hours. earlier today, it was 5%. it shows you that this team is starting to slow down a little bit. you are still seeing arise. bitcoin hovering above 20,000. let's take a look here at a cerium. like bitcoin, massive rise on sunday. bigger jump and bitcoin. that is starting to slow down significantly, now only up 2/10 of 1%. still, you do see ethereum giving some life back to the nft market. nft index rising once again. look at these volumes, up quite a bit when you look at the largest marketplaces. open seed up more than that right now in terms of volume.
volumes are higher in the last when he four hours. the volumes are down over the most recent time but today, they announced a funding round that had their valuation announced as surging tenfold. you are seeing the nft market come to life just as people gather at nyc nft. there's a lot of excitement around what the future brings despite this crypto winter. emily: thanks for that. meantime, elon musk commented on everything from twitter to the market to tesla in a wide-ranging interview with john micklethwait at the qatar economic forum in doha. anyone hoping to hear him commit to his deal to buy twitter would be disappointed. take a listen to what he had to say about that and more. elong: there are a few unresolved matters. you probably read about the
questions as to whether the number of fake and spam users on the system is 5%, as twitter claims. i think that's not most people's experience when using twitter. we are still waiting resolution on that matter. that is a very significant matter. so we are awaiting resolution on that. of course, there's the question of, will the debt portion come together? will the shareholders vote in favor? those are the three things that need to be resolved before the transaction can take place. john: what about the general state of the economy? does that way on you? you described it as a super bad feeling about the economy. are you still in that position? joe biden has just come out and
said that a recession in america isn't inevitable. how do you feel about the economy? elon: a recession is inevitable at some point. as to whether there is a recession in the near term, i think that is more likely than not. if not a certainty, it appears more likely than not. john: can you set the record straight on one thing? this issue about the layoffs. you said initially that 10% of the workforce would be cut. then 10% of salaried would be cut. then salaried would stay flat and headcount would go up. what is the number? i know there's already been a lawsuit about the 10%. is 10% the goal to reduce the workforce? what is the number that we should think about or that you are planning? elon: yes. tesla is reducing the salaried workforce by roughly 10% over
the next probably three months or so. we expect to grow our hourly workforce but we grew very fast on the salaried side. we grew a little too fast in some areas. it requires reduction in salaried workforce. we are about two thirds hourly and one third salary. technically, a 10% reduction in the salaried workforce is roughly a 3.5% reduction in total headcount. emily: elon musk there speaking with john micklethwait from the qatar economic forum in delhi. i want to break some of that down with ed ludlow. let's unpack that.
what is the significant of what we learned right there? ed: the main takeaway is that demand is really strong. they have a really long wait list. he talked about how they need to build more factories quicker. the point he's making is that they are reducing 10% of salaried staff, but that's only a third of the workforce. he whipped out that 3.5% reduction of headcount globally. tesla ballooned over the last few years. 100,000 employees. they are trimming back in some areas, focusing on priority which is people actually building stuff. cars, battery packs. emily: the employees at twitter didn't get an answer one way or another, whether or not he will go through with the deal. ed: it was like recent appearances by mosque. he didn't state that he's committed to the deal as it is loud tight -- outlined. he went through the motions and
he gave this caveat that he was trying to do deposition minimization. he didn't want to get into legal trouble because it's a pending deal. still problems with bots. still need a shareholder vote to make this happen. the debt, $13 billion. that suggests that that is not solid. emily: it doesn't help that he thinks a recession is likely at some point. twitter has taken a turn. ed: he said previously that he had a bad feeling about the economy, referencing an internal memo. he said that recession is going to happen at some point. the economy is cyclical. will it happen in the near term? he said more likely than not. emily: twitter's market cap, $29 billion. he did talk about does. we had interesting commentary therapy -- -- there, along with his support for cryptocurrencies. ed: he's not suggesting that people invest in
cryptocurrencies. that was part of the question. he said, i'm not saying that. he went across the factories, he has workers and engineers and all kinds of people saying to him, we are invested in dogecoi n, can you support it? he has bought into it himself. you can buy tesla merchandise in does coin. he is suggesting his support is because he had a wide network of employees that also support cryptocurrency. he made the bitcoin side of things, tesla's holdings in a very small part of the balance sheet. emily: interesting. ok. more meat on the bones there. thank you for your analysis. coming up, the votes are in. it wasn't even close. apple got crushed in its first retail union election. we talk about the rising threat of attack union wave with the former chair of the national labor relations board, next.
65-33. this is just the beginning as more stores are expected to organize around the world. in recent months, we've seen more workers at tech companies unionize. with the tightening labor market and the economy turning down, how much influence can they have? i am joined by william gould. a scholar on labor law at stanford law school and author of the book, foreign labor. thank you so much for joining us. the vote wasn't even close. what does that tell you about the chances that this is going to happen that many more apple stores? william: it's likely that it will happen at many more stores. we don't know really how many it's likely to be. clearly, something is happening. we've been talking for a long time about the unrelenting decline of organized later in the absence of organized labor
from tech altogether. that's beginning to change a bit. how much, we don't know. i think there are a number of factors and issues which have made this possible. there is no doubt about the fact that something is happening. and it is quite feasible, possible that it will happen elsewhere, there and at other companies. emily: apple has said in a statement about the possibility of this happening in the past. we are fortunate to have incredible retail team members and we deeply value everything they bring to apple. we are pleased to offer strong compensation and benefits for employees. including health care, tuition reimbursement, new parental mute, and many other benefits. how do you think the benefits that apple, which is one of the wealthiest companies in the world, compare to what workers in unions elsewhere receive? you would think they would be a
step above the rest. william: they are a step above the unionize segment of the economy but they are a step above a number of them. probably, the impetus for this comes from a desire of workers to shape these employment conditions with the employer, not to have them unilaterally imposed upon them. and to address issues like scheduling, like safety issues. in this time of inflation, we've seen a decline in real wages. i think all of these issues, a confluence of these issues and the circumstances that have emerged in this time of uncertainty -- i talk about wars and depression and pandemic in my book. it's a time of uncertainty where workers frequently are more likely to look to unions as some kind of protective mechanism, a
participatory mechanism. emily: amazon has been facing unionization efforts of its own at warehouses. a vote in staten island for example to unionize. i sat down with andy jassy and asked for his response to these efforts. take a listen to what he had to say. andy: we think they are better off without a union for a number of reasons, including the fact that it's much harder when you have a union to have a direct relationship with your manager and to get things done quickly. emily: amazon's labor union interestingly filed a charge over those remarks that he made to me. i'm curious what you see as the parallel between apple and amazon, the difference between a wave of tech unionization's, how that compares to the history of unions in this country. william: there have been waves
of trade union movements at various points. the great depression, world war ii are some of the most recent illustrations. when workers don't know what lies ahead. this idea that we can just sit down and work things out together is fine, so long as the worker really has a say in it. i feel that what the workers are saying, through these initiatives in tech and amazon. amazon is a very from edible effort because there are so many employees that you have to organize in one swoop. the staten island being approximately 8000 workers. that's a tough thing for a union to do. they were able to do it effectively, in part because they were able to -- it was an
independent groundswell. the workers came to the union. the union isn't coming to the workers. that's the way it's been in every time of great union growth. i don't know that this is going to be a great time of union growth. i think we are in the early days. emily: what do you think these tech companies should prepare for? how do you see it playing out? will they have to pay these employees much more? what does it look like on the other side? william: it's not simply a matter of benefits. it's a matter of worker involvement. worker participation. determining scheduling, inputting safety issues which have become so important in this pandemic era in a number of contexts. they are going to have to really
come through with money for workers who see their real wages declining for reasons that are totally beyond their control. it seems at the present, anybody's control. emily: certainly very long chapter yet to be written here. really appreciate having your perspective here today on the show. coming up, changes are coming to meta as it shifts its algorithm to bring more creators to the platform. creators you may not have heard of before. expanding into the metaverse. we explain it all next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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creators as it looks for ways to continue to expand in the metaverse. mark zuckerberg has announced new ways for creators to make money including through nft's, reels, and even paid online events and subscriptions. meta is also shifting its algorithm. since the invention of face picks newsfeed, they have been focused on delivering content. however, after more than a decade, it's becoming clear that some users need a little more. the success of tiktok has unearthed a new kind of algorithm magic, giving people content they didn't even know they wanted to see. this is why creators with little followings have been able to gain massive traction on tiktok but less so on meadows platforms. mark zuckerberg wants to change all that. i'm joined by bloomberg stec at her. -- tech editor. what are they doing here and
will it work? >> it's a big bet to focus on showing people content from people they don't already follow , that they haven't already expressed interest in and the hopes of helping those people build a following as creators. it's really risky because it flies in the face of all the cure ration you've done of your feed. you decided who you wanted to follow, who you are friends with, etc. meta thinks it has something to show you that might be better. it might or might not work. it's a big moment of experimentation. they are betting the company on this. if it can't make money from this pivot, then you won't be able to really fund the metaverse. they won't have the creator relationship that they need to take into the metaverse eventually. emily: how are creators looking at the differences between a tiktok and a facebook or instagram?
sarah: creators have their audiences on instagram where they really have this back and forth relationship. it's easier to connect on instagram then it is on tiktok. but tiktok is really offering people an opportunity for more followings and is considered the easier place to become famous overnight. compared to instagram, which is already established. facebook is simply not top of mind for young people anymore. that's another thing that the company needs to change. they are leaning on instagram and changes to facebook itself that are going to help draw in young people and make them more entertainment destinations than simple social networks. that's all trying to compete with tiktok. however, this is what they really need to do to stay relevant. if it doesn't work, they are going to have potentially
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technology. time now for tech means you might have missed. uber is bringing back its shared ride service for the first time since the pandemic. it is now called uber x share. ed ludlow is here with the details. what do we know? ed: it's interesting. if you choose to do it, you get partnered with the cowriter. you and one other person. huber says that algorithms calculate your cowriter based on your route and who gets dropped off first depends on the route. there might be times when you are riding on your own and someone gets in. you might be writing with two and someone gets out. they are interest to sing this in limited markets. we have this tweet from somebody that noticed the news in new york city, channeling their inner pandemic experience with a bit of banter.
excited for summer of chaotic encounters in the back of a nissan ultima. we can all relate. i remember huber pool and other shared ride service pre-pandemic. you could have three or four people in the car, all in the back. somebody has a briefcase, an umbrella, a dog. this is different. it will be interesting to see the psychology of how users react to this. look at the share performance. uber and lyft. in 2020, things started to recover in the share price off of the essential stock of the pandemic. huber's story has been one where they've diversified the business. we've been debating in recent weeks about whether demand is really there, how much both of these companies will have to do to intensifies writers and drivers and how that will way on the bottom line. if you opt for that, you get an immediate 20% discount on your ride which could be a way to lure people in.
emily: you see them trading in tandem. i have to ask, why did they change the name? uber x share. doesn't have the same ring. ed: i latched onto this as well. what they say is that after the pandemic shutdown shared rides in 2020, they did a complete revamp. pilots around the world in different markets. they redesigned the future. this is the core principle. it's not really a pool of people. it's a kosher ride with you and one other person. i would also point out that there is no mask requirement in san francisco. huber is saying that it's at the comfort level of writers whether they wear a mask. that's the key point. not a big pool of writers like uber cool. that's the mainstay. emily: i can only imagine those awkward conversations. ok. ed ludlow, thank you. coming up, stx to the rescue.
other lenders have faced, which froze withdrawals on their platforms. here to break it all down is to molly bostick. -- sonali basak. as you said, some of the block fight have paused. now you have an acknowledgment that it liquidated a large client, taking some funds from ftx. when you look at why this happened, sometimes leadership means acting decisively and that's what they did. removing troublesome counterparties before they became a problem and adding cash as necessary. remember, they also had extended credit to digital as well as a safeguard for crop -- prime assets. you know, you look at what people are saying about the whole thing.
telling bloomberg, it makes him the jp morgan of the crypto industry. it comes from a position of strength. they announced a deal to acquire a clearing firm as it looks to expand. emily: interesting. stay with us. i want to talk about how the world of nft's will evolve amidst this crypto winter. our next guest joining us now. so look, this is the start of nyt fic. last year was a big year for nft's. we've seen a decline. what is the impact of the quinto -- crypto winter and how do you see that playing out? >> thank you so much for having me. there has been a broader downturn in macro impacts
recently. from our point of view, the last few months have been going from strength to strength. we are one of the fastest-growing market places in the world. we are 90% market share. in may, the largest ever month for us. it's been about a 10 x growth from the last time we raise. from our point of view, we see pretty significant demand from creators as well as end users to interact with and discover nft's. the way we think about it is, it's a long-term time horizon. we measure success on a multi-year cycle. upson downs are part and parcel with crypto. super excited to be announcing this today. emily: how is it different from other markets? >> great question. this comes up a lot. it was intentional. for us, we consider ourselves a very community centric and deeply creative marketplace. what does that mean exactly?
this permeates everything that we do. for example, one of the earliest products that we built was actually a launchpad. end-to-end creator tool and service that helps creators launch nft collections. secondly, we partner with collections through the entire journey. not just at launch but through the end-to-end experience where they may want to build a custom embedded marketplace. we are a partner for that. on the community side, i think that it's important to consider marketplaces as more than just a point-of-sale. we want to work with communities to actually be there around the entire discovery journey, whether it is analytics, research, actually the point-of-sale. we want to be there. from our point of view, we are excited to continue building for the future. for us, that means continuing to expand the team, continuing to grow the line of products. we are super excited about that. emily: you made a specific
decision to be on the nft marketplace. i'm just really curious. there are outages. what is the trade-off here? what are some of the things that will need to be booked through to make this a viable solution? >> for sure. it is still filler -- very early. the trade-off is that it's a newer chain. they are still working through a lot of the growing pains. as much as we have grown over the last nine months, they are experiencing something similar. we have huge face and what they are doing. the decision to launch there was intentional. the cost of experience to is lower when transactions are cheaper. that means more creative's, more end-users. hopefully, that means that will continue to grow in the long-term. we want to be here as a part of that. emily: i'm wondering about nft pricing. you've seen things sell first-order amounts over the next -- last year. millions of dollars.
now they are trading for a lot less. what is the normal price here? where does the market start to stabilize? >> that's really hard to say. i wish i could answer that for you. overall, we see strong demand still for nft's. effectively, it's a similar thing to fungible tokens five years ago. it's ok to talk about prices up, down, sideways. ultimately, looking at the trajectory of the growth. they became a trillion dollar market. nft's are a much more applicable technology to many things across the spectrum of culture. regardless of where we see the prices now, there's a lot to build. emily: i have to ask you about bill gates or martz about the nft market. he said, it is based on the greater full theory. and then added, obviously
expensive digital images of monkeys are going to prove the world immensely. not a small dose of sarcasm. what is bill gates getting wrong? >> bill, come and try out. we would love to have you on the platform. there are a couple things that i would call out. we are very early in the general nft category and ecosystem. yeah. profile pictures may not seem like something that is very interesting or very exciting to a lot of people. the reality is, they got very popular and they are fun. they are social. it's at the intersection of culture. they have permeated a lot of society. one of the things we are excited about is enabling more utility for nft's. part of this is going to be building out magic eight in. gaming is an inherently social activity. it's where communities gather. you can imagine, the same types of behaviors where people are buying items and skins that are
not crypto related, people will be doing those things with nft's. the cool thing about that is that it's true ownership year. it's early. we invite bill to come out and check out magic eden. we would help -- happily welcome him in. emily: can you speak to the overall fundraising environment here? you saw tenfold surge in since march. how hard is it to raise money? what are investors looking for when they are putting your money to work? >> it is tougher right now that it was three months ago for sure. i still think that if you are really high quality, with clarity of thought and vision, strong execution, long-term focused investors will still want to do these deals. i think magic eden is a testament to that. despite a deteriorating market over the last couple of months, we have been a strong as ever.
we have a lot of appetite and interest in bound from our existing investors and new investors. there is appetite still to do deals. i think the implication is that there is a longer time with a lot of teens and investors. that is healthy for the market. emily: you are optimistic. paint the picture for five years out. what does the nft market look like? what problems is it solving? >> i think it will be a trillion dollar market. going back to the point earlier about mimicking the growth of fungible tokens. i believe that nft is will permeate many different types of assets. one of the things that we are pumped about is exploring the universe of gaming mft's. -- nft's. i don't think it all stops with profile pictures. this is an inherently social experience. it permeates a lot of different things around culture.
hopefully, this is just the beginning and it spurs a lot of other amazing innovation in the nft space to get we are stoked to be a part of it. hopefully we can push it forward with a lot of other builders out there. emily: ceo of magic eden, thank you. coming up, the future of work and how to power it. we speak about all of that and more with krista clow. we also have a few of the markets. she joins us next. this is bloomberg. ♪
technomic's, we bring you the story of a developer of business solutions that wants to drive the future of work and competing against the likes of vmware. the ceo joins us now to talk about this vision. how do you intend to compete with vmware? a giant in the tech space. christa: they really are giants. look at our product. it parallels. as many people know, it enables you to do such things as running windows on a mac. it's more than that. we have the desktop solution that millions of people enjoy and love and enable them to do a better job. we also have a server cloud. we just bought a company this week that enabled us to be anywhere. you don't have to download anything. streaming applications. as we think about the virtualization space, there are
big giants like citrix and vmware which are serving clients that have 5000 and up consumers. we are here to make it even -- easy for every worker and company to work from wherever they want. be at the coffee shop, the sofa, the office. i really secure and easy way. emily: you've been around the block. you were the ceo of opentable. you've been through ups and downs when it comes to the market. how do you see the shift to remote work working out? christa: i think the genie is out of the bottle. if you look at pre-pandemic work , a lot of that came from what it was like to come into a factory. it didn't imagine a world where zoom and collaboration tools enabled peoples dailies lives. we believe that when you work better, you live better. people don't want to give that up.
we've seen that in how people are willing to take a salary decrease. the companies that remain abject about their desire to get people in, they are going to suffer as it relates to where talent wants to go. it's not to say that we don't gather or get people together. i believe that your personal productivity pod should be wherever you wanted to be. you should be able to connect securely and use our products all you do so. emily: elon musk calling workers back in the office. do you think he will be on the wrong side of history? could this hurt companies? christa: it's all about understanding what your businesses. we have the benefit of being in the bit business and not the adams business. we don't have a physical product. obviously, there is a supply chain to boot.
he needs to demonstrate from a cultural standpoint how those people will come in. if you are building software which is our case, we can be more flexible and lean in and give the knowledge workers not just flexibility but freedom which is ultimately what they are seeking. emily: you lived through the.com bust. how do you think this compares? do you think a recession is inevitable? is it a big are or little are -- big r or little r? christa: it is interesting. it feels to me more like the.com bust. albia, with much higher interest rates. i think it's a big r recession. it's a question of how quickly companies respond. i was at an event and somebody said, economics is the new
black. i think it was amusing. i come from a private equity landscape. economics have always been a mainstay of our business. it will need to be so going forward for many companies. emily: how do you think this will impact the broader inscape -- landscape of all of these tech unicorns? on top of these huge public tech companies that have been enjoying very nice multiples. will they recover? christa: i think if you need -- need to raise capital, it got more expensive. flat round is the new up around. the reality is, how are managers, employees going to respond in this environment? when the dollar is up, oil is up, interest rates are up. equity has to be down. when equity is down, the primary driver of tech workers who work
for the equity, they get cranky. it is getting more challenging. they might be losing their job. the whole ecosystem is being thrust into this world where the cost of capital is such that you can't grow at any price. you have to grow at an economic driven price. emily: how will this impact the war for talent? workers are deciding, i don't want to do this anymore. you see the market contracting. people don't necessarily have that kind of optionality. there are layoffs and hiring freezes happening across the tech industry. how do those to balance each other out? christa: >> you have -- christa: you have to look at which labor market you are in. if you are in a market like san francisco or new york where your cost of labor generally is higher than cost of other labor out there in the marketplace. it has created a level playing field for talent across not just
the united states but across the globe. we clearly employ developer teams. we think it's a critical advantage for an organization. it's a great leveling of talent. it used to be that you had to be in a certain location to manage and benefit from the ecosystem. now i think that's gone. our tools enable people to be effective from any place. emily: who wins and who loses? christa: if you are a san francisco engineer, it could be to your advantage. great talent is always needed. what you see in some of these companies, they couldn't even higher according to their hiring plan. you are also going to see those hiring plans get dramatically scaled back. i talk about management. if you have no bounds, you can do anything. you might not be as creative as you otherwise would have been.
how do you manage? i think that's where a lot of people look at the incredible companies that get borne out of recessions because they had to be mindful and choosy about where they spent their money. emily: that's a new one for me. i will remember it. thank you. great to have you back here on the show. that doesn't for this edition of bloomberg technology. we will be back tomorrow with another of -- a number of guests. don't forget to check out our new podcast as well, wherever you get your podcasts. this is bloomberg. ♪