tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg September 27, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT
>> i'm ed ludlow in new york, this is bloomberg technology, coming up in the next hour a lack of trust from u.s. lawmakers could alter tiktok's operations and its biggest market. the worry is the parent company bytdance's relationship with the chinese government. they're working with tiktok on a security deal, the negotiations have stalled. kathy was in venture funds, target liquid assets, our first foray into private investments. and gives the retail traders venture capital market access. we ask about the strategy. ed: bitcoin joins me to discuss his push to make bitcoin the currency to cross-border transaction. first let's get a look at the
matter -- market. volatility persists and rate worries continues. 20 for the biggest news of the day. >> what a volatile day in the u.s. equity market. the s&p 500 fished -- finish the day lower. it the lowest 60 day of losses for that u.s. equity benchmark. what i am looking at is the nasdaq. we saw bit of outperformance there in that tech heavy index, finishing .2%. it was led by gains in the mega caps. tesla up 2.5%. also apple up .6% to finish the day. they have larger weightings in the nasdaq 100, then the s&p 500. that lends itself to a bit of tech outperformance. we talk about tech outperformance. if you zoom out, the nasdaq 100 is down over 30% here today. it has been a great environment for bears or investors who are
betting against the nasdaq 100, perhaps retreating a little. you take a look at the as qqq, the etf betting against the nasdaq 100. it sounds biggest daily outflow since june yesterday. it follows a steady stream of outflows from the fund in the last few sessions. perhaps those bears retreating a bit, expecting a bit of a bounce in those tech stocks. the bond market also providing just a bit of relief for tech stocks today. i'm looking at the two year yields on the u.s. government bond, they moved lower by four basis points today. also, the tenure, we have a lot ashton year -- 10 a year, we have a bond traders looking at that. 3.99%. the 4% level is the critical level. it has not held above for sustained period of time since 2008. we know tech stocks do not like
higher yields. it means the future value of earnings will be discounted. a lot of on traders watching yields. also bitcoin had a pretty nice rally earlier in the day, across the 20,000 level. now, about 18, $19,000, as the equity market falls off. ed: thanks to you, emily. the biden administration and tiktok are working on an agreement that would let this -- the sharing site operate in the u.s.. but bloomberg has learned talks have stalled over concerns the company's a chinese ownership, poses a national security threat, according to sources. if an agreement is reached, it could impose more restrictions on how tiktok stores data from u.s. users. meanwhile, tiktok has stepped up its lobbying efforts in d.c. that has had little engagement with republican naysayers. bloomberg business week reports. joining me now, adam. chamber of progress ceo. let's start with you, what is
your latest report about talks between the u.s. government and tiktok? >> this is a concern around u.s. users data, in regards to chinese government which owns -- china's parent company. so far in these negotiations, tiktok has said they will partner with oracle, to wrap all u.s. users data through their server. it's algorithm and content moderation policy. the hiccup has come in because of the deal, they need to get over the line. the government body investigating it is interagency body, the justice department, individual on that panel for the justice department, is still concerned that this deal does not go far enough to keep data out of the hands of the chinese government. so, that seems to be the sticking point, according to our reporting, that is dragging this
longer than tiktok would like. ed: adam, you are the ceo of the chamber of progress. one of the goals is to make the tech industry act fairly and responsibly towards consumers. when you hear alex go through the latest reporting, is this good news or bad news? >> not sure if we have ever seen a service like tiktok before, that is become so popular with americans, and yet is owned by the chinese. that's a unique problem and challenge for government policymakers. alex talked about the confessions that on the table in terms of the company's negotiations with the biden administration. i'm not sure any of those conditions really solve this question of chinese government access problem so long as it tiktok is owned by a chinese company. the chinese are going to have access to american user data no matter where it is stored.
they don't come into the front door, they, they come in through the back door. that is the reality of how china operates. as far as the oracle audit, oracle is on the verge of having a massive cloud hosting deal, tiktok, they're going to have a financial incentive to look the other way regarding china's control. oracle is not a branch of the u.s. government obligated to do what is best for its business. one of the big question surrounding this, you said some of the biden administration's figures are doubting whether this is tough enough. frankly i think there is a concern, if they do a partial compromise on certain aspects of their business, it doesn't get to the fundamental propaganda concerns that that can be seen as avoiding the deeper issues that tiktok poses. ed: the talks between tiktok and the u.s. government are the here and now. you've got a fantastic piece in bloomberg business week magazine about big picture of tiktok.
i'm going to bring up a chart on the screen that shows how tiktok is stepping up and bytedance in lobbying efforts. there are nowhere near the facebook current companies doing. talk to us about what you've learned. >> they are nowhere near. but tiktok did clock its biggest quarter in terms of lobbying. my colleague and i wanted to take you behind the scenes to see what is going on in d.c. with tiktok efforts to charm the beltway. we have learned from sources in d.c. of on the company is that they have taken 130 meetings with congressional offices. the tiktok ceo, who heard last week, was at a football game of lawmakers versus the capitol police. there is an important group of folks, they're not meeting with. we heard that mccarthy in the house, the key republicans of the house, josh hawley, and marco rubio in the senate, the
senators are republicans who have been really large detractors and have approached the companies with skepticism, have left off a formal -- have been left off the formal meeting list. the company told us they are having productive conversations with lawmakers. they are not meeting with folks who seem to be on suede by fact. -- swayed by fact. they seemed to have missed the biggest detractors on the beltway. if this deal doesn't go through, or for drags on, and voices continue to be louder, it could cause problems, as they are trying to resolve some of these big concerns and get the deal over the line. ed: what is your reaction for what you just heard about tiktok's lobbying efforts? adam: there's no doubt i live here in washington, i see what they are trying to do, they're trying to highlight the way people are using tiktok read they're trying to portray themselves as good citizens.
i am sympathetic to the u.s. employees of tiktok who currently have to spend a lot of time dancing on the be pin about the chinese government's role in the app. there is no doubt that their jobs as lobbyists and as a company would be much easier, and frankly, that our national security concerns were less if tiktok was sold to an a market owner. that's a big challenge. i think beijing officials know what a powerful platform this is. you've got 1.4 billion people on tiktok. i think the reason, they don't let chinese citizens use tiktok. that's a recognition of how powerful it is. we know the chinese government spreads propaganda line, they did for the olympics -- online, they did it for the olympics. there is beyond the question of access, there's a question of is tiktok the next version of rt. which we kicked out of this
country after russia invaded ukraine. ed: much to discuss. bloomberg's adam kovacevich, and chamber of progress founder. thank you both. twitter is complaining that elon musk's legal team has not turned over text with morgan stanley's ceo head of next month trial. twitter lawyers want to sanction musk and his lawyers for not producing texts with him, and the oracle chairman. musk has withheld for texts with him, according -- from april 25. coming up, ark launches the new fund, focused on tech powered innovation. what does that mean? we will ask. this is bloomberg. ♪
ed: ark investment management has launched its venture, it will target liquid assets in both private and public companies, along with other funds. the fund limits how one when investors can cash out. a minimum investment of $500 to need -- means any potential investor can buy in. here to explain the goals is brett winton. what are the goals? brett: we aim to democratize enter capital. you describe what we are trying to do. anybody -- any -- you can go into your browser and download
the app and you can invest $500 today into venture capital. if you think about venture as an asset class, it has been held apart from a lot of individual investors. these are not assets that should require you to be rich in order to invest in them, nor should you have to fill out a lot of pdfs and only be able to get into the top funds. we think that every individual should have access to venture capital. within of their risk tolerance limits. this vehicle provides a mechanism i which they could do so. ed: we have been waiting on this mechanism for a bit of time. our bloomberg intelligence etf analyst has a note out in response to your launch titled, cathie wood's venture fund, burdened by tough timing. let's start with the timing. it has been brutal for both public and private markets, of late. how do you get around that? brett: this is the perfect time.
there is never -- there's never been a better moment to start up a business. there's never been a better moment to put your risk capital into a venture product like this one and into innovation companies generally. so, we think that there is roughly a trillion dollars in market capital, to what we focus on, that is going to put more than 2 trillion items by 2030. there is incredible technological tailwind and play. when everyone is running for the exit, that is the time to be putting your capital to work. ed: let's talk about fees. typically, ark's existing etf's, have a fee of 75%. this case it is a fee of 2.75%, that seems high. why is it set to that level? brett: think about the conveyor
belt products you can get if you are investing in venture, where you are paying 2% management fee, plus 20% carry. this is a much more efficient exposure then you would get if you were in a top for tile venture fund, which has done well. so, investment vehicle itself, restricts our ability to charge carry. that is how we can democratize this. we believe we are charging an extremely efficient right for getting access to top-tier companies, this is the likes of epic games, the likes of mosaic ml, which is delivering machine learning and advanced ai software to midmarket businesses. these are companies that a typical investor cannot get access to. by just going to ark.vt, right now you can invest in this fund and get access to these kinds of great innovation companies. ed: 5% of net asset value on a
quarterly basis, what is so interesting here is that the split is 70% private, 30% public. traditionally, capital is locked up in funds for an extended period of time. you're looking at investing and other funds. some redemptions to lock up in the private sector. brett: redemptions are kept at 5% across the entire fund. at -- if the individual investor wants to sell their condition and their overall request for redemptions are below 5%, they will get their entire position sold out at net asset value. it's only if requests to redeem exceeds 5% in a given quarter, then redemption will cap out at a pro out of -- quota basis.
into the funds can get allocated to innovation assets immediately in the public market as we are negotiating private market deals. at equilibrium, we are seeking to be, targeting 70% private exposures. on individual technology basis, we will pay arbitrageurs between the public and private markets. some technologies it is clear that the ivan markets are undervalued relatively to the public markets and vice versa. we think those are interesting ways to get exposure to innovation tailwinds that will allow us to invest in these companies early and carry them all the way through ipo into the public market. ed: we just showed a chart of the s&p 500, a performance, relative to ark innovation. this is a different strategy. how do you convince investors that this is right to use this new mechanism, this new way of getting access to private market and companies?
brett: i think any innovation exposure should be measured over a business cycle link performance basis. when we underwrite our positions in the private and public market, we look forward five years and say, what is an in market investor going to pay five years forward? just paying the market multiple for the cash flow generation capabilities of those businesses? i think, given what happens with rates and innovation assets across the board, investors are short innovation today, may be unintentionally. the disruptive technology we think are going to penetrate the marketplace are going to totally turnover the business models that people have in their portfolios. all of the problems we are seeing in the world today, innovation solve those problems. owning a share of the businesses that are going to solve those problems is a way to generate a performance over time. ed: ark invest chief futurist,
netflix is creating its first in-house video game studio in a push to be less reliant on third already creators and expand its gaming offerings. the streaming service platform is seeking to increase engagement and differentiate itself. bloomberg intelligence believes there will not be a syndicate for -- significant impact. our analyst joins us now to discuss it. you put research out before the news of the in-house studio hit the bloomberg dachshund
bloomberg. does that change anything? >> unfortunately not really. thanks for having me. netflix has been a taking baby steps in the space of gaming. they have 30 games or so. it has been on their platform for 10 months. so far we have seen the uptick has been lackluster, we just recently saw a report which said less than 1% of their subscriber basis engage with the games. i think it is going to be a case of too little, too late. this news of them developing their own a studio is pretty much taking a page out of the same where they have done their original video content. theystudio, whether it is stranr things or the witcher. with the videogame market, the dynamics are different. it takes years and years to create a viable slate of good games. i think netflix is going to find
that out. ed: illustrate that point -- to illustrate that point, we have this chart that shows in the third quarter, based on app downloads, we know candy crush, more than 39 million downloads, every single netflix game that is available just shy of 5.5 million. in your research you point out, there some technological restrictions. you can only get netflix games through the mobile app. what is a problem? geetha: absolutely. this -- so much of the problem with why the update has been slow is because of discovery or the lack of discovery. first of all, it's only available on mobile. 75% of netflix viewing happens on connected tv. there to even play a game. you have to be on your mobile device. once you're on your mobile device, and you wish to engage with the netflix game, you have to leave the app and going download the the mobile gaming
app. there's a bit of friction there. it's not the most user-friendly now. that has been one of the other reasons that has inhibited the app. ed: geetha ranganathan of bloomberg intelligence. why meta shutdown accounts in russia and china? some of which paid the company to promote phony news articles. later, sam on his m&a spree to the traditional financial system. this is bloomberg. ♪
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meta says the russia counts spread propaganda about the war in ukraine. a china-based accounts were targeting u.s. users in regards to midterm elections. sarah leads our big tech coverage here at bloomberg news. what do we know about the accounts that were frozen by meta? sarah: the thing that is interesting to me about this report is that meta made a rare disclosure of the amount of advertising these accounts, around hundred $5,000 from russia to spread propaganda about the war in ukraine. that is significant because this company has come under criticism for receiving advertising dollars from russia around the u.s. election back in 2016. they don't have a way to block this from happening. even though it is against the rules, even though they built up the security team, they have said they will continue to have problems like this.
they will try to catch them early. the fact that there was that level of advertising campaign shows that they are still -- there's the work to the. ed: over the last several years, i remember looking at these blog posts from what was then facebook, now meta about the work they were doing. this idea that they are trying to be more transparent. are they being more transparent? sarah: i do think they are being more open about what they are finding and taking down. but i think that is not the major issues here. the issue is that the stuff exists, they still have a platform where the stuff can go viral, that it can be easily gained. they have groups where these kinds of foreign governments can build around. the fundamentals of how facebook works, has not changed. they will continue to play whack-a-mole, until that changes. i think the disclosure is a good
thing, but it is only one part of the problem. ed: that's pivot to tiktok. your team has been writing about what tiktok and its parent company bytedance has been doing in washington dc. what is the strategy there? sarah: speaking of parents, people in d.c. have a lot on tiktok. there under fire from republicans, democrats, everyone around their issues with her algorithm, whether there is a national security risk and the fact that they are owned by the chinese based company. the problem is that tiktok has not been willing to speak with some of its loudest critics. when it has spoken with them, it has not gone over well. reporters spoke with multiple sources to get a behind-the-scenes look of how this is working in d.c.. they know -- tiktok knows they
have some trust issues there and that they will have to work on their credibility. it's going to be difficult. there is also a decision looming. it's a little difficult for them to really come out with a strong plan before knowing what that actually might be from the federal government. in the meantime, their critics are growing louder. ed: bloomberg's sarah frier, thank you very much. sheryl sandberg got an applause, as she exited the meta headquarters in california on tuesday. this was her last week as a coo, after announcing she stepped down back in june. she joined the company, then known as facebook in 2008. she will remain on the board of directors. now, he says his m&a spring, includes many deals with financial firms will not hinder
the profitability this year. he also said he's got more cash to burn. these -- this is some of the conversation from earlier on bloomberg crypto. >> we tried to be judicious, frankly. with the yields we been doing and obviously that is not going to be perfect. we have accenture's of that. we have not used the majority of the cash we have. that is not -- so much is that we want to be flexible and in a position where we are looking forward at what we can be doing, where we can be most helpful, and where we can grow the most. how i would describe us now is exploring. i don't know if that is going to lead anywhere. it might, might not. we are going to continue looking around. >> it reminds you of one of the
other cool things that was said in the ft. he says a lot of people are disturbing and the lack of has princi. you're not one of those people. he is willing to invest in you again. how much cash is on your balance sheet? what kind of free cash flow are you generating? how much are you burning through? >> it's a good question. we were profitable last year. we will likely be profitable this year as well. and, we have raised a couple billion dollars last year. we have done a number of acquisitions. we generated some free clash flow with revenue -- cash flow with revenue. when you combine all of those things together at the end of the day, i think you are left with upwards of a billion dollars. and there's some issues here, which -- ron greg latoya capital -- regulatory capital.
we still have some drive power. >> you said regulatory. i want to talk about regulation, especially as we had a number of stories of circulating in the last 48 hours or so, including the new york attorney general, he is accusing a license broker-deal. you have prosecutors freezing assets tied, who they are seeking to arrest. you have ethereum's update which could be triggering tax confusion in the u.k.. we are from the chairman of the federal reserve talking about the need for more crypto oversight. take a listen to what he said. >> there's a real need for more appropriate regulation, so that, as defi expands and touches more retail customers and that sort of thing, so that appropriate regulation is in place. >> more regulation is needed.
you already know that. that is something you have been working on. do you feel like we're getting closer to some kind of real framework or having organized jurisdiction of what the sec controlled separately? >> i do think there has been a lot of progress. i am really excited for industry going forward. i think we have made a lot of progress. you look at your goal, with very little -- a year ago, very little going on on the regulatory side. their proposals in congress, where they both working on regimes, stablecoins will ding through. we have been applying -- we have active discussions with the sec as well. i think that is pretty exciting. i agree, there needs to be clear federal oversight here to really
protect consumers and at the same time to be able to provide clarity for the industry to operate. ed: that was ftx ceo sam bateman freed. ceo executives have resigned. two months after the crypto lender filed for bankruptcy, celsius was launched in 2017, as an alternative to traditional banks. brett harrison has also stepped down to transition to an advisory role. we have seen a ton of turnover in crypto since the downturn. last week, crack and ceo, jesse powell announced his resignation. coming up, strike ceo, jack on his fresh funding for the mobile platform. this is bloomberg. ♪
ed: strike has struck $18 million in new funding. the platform which uses the bitcoin lighting network played a big role in the bitcoin push. the partnership and wants new ones. was spring and strike ceo -- let's bring in strike ceo jack mallers. what are you going to use the pal of cash for? >> thank you. for having me back. what will i use the money for? to improve payments. we think lighting hour and
bitcoin is the broadest stroke of innovation in the history of payments. it is one of the biggest industries in the world. it's a cool moment. we have our work cut out for us. there's a lot to do. to solve payments globally. ed: take me back to basics what is the lightning network? it's how for for the audience to know what it is that your underlying your company does. jack: we are going to keep it simple, stupid. the lighting network allows it to move instantaneously at no cost. you will probably go like wow, why is that important? you might care. because bitcoin is a digital instrument. it's value. it's globally recognized as value. the fact that it can move in real time and settle instantly is something no payment network has ever and able to do in the history of payments. you have a payments that take weeks to settle. they are very expensive to settle. they involve two to 10 parties. the fact that bitcoin can be
digital, global and recognizable value, and move at the speed of light at no cost, you have to put your thinking cap on and be like, huh, i think we could do a lot of cool stuff with that. from a very high level, that is why the technology is fascinating. we've got a use that technology and make it commercially viable for people to realize the benefits. ed: we focus a lot on the volatility in bitcoin in recent months. i'm looking at the one your chart, june 2 where we are now, we traded in a more narrow range of $20,000, we called you a bitcoin maximalist. give us your take on what is happening with bitcoin specifically. jack: i think what is interesting is, when we think of bitcoin and payments, we use volume we don't care about the volatility. my services, we allow any currency over it. volatility doesn't matter to our customers, because customers are
not subject to holding the actual asset. as a bitcoin holder, in my portfolio, you want to talk about bitcoin, netflix stock, or the british pound? the macroenvironment is in a mess and i'm happy to talk about it. the real main point, this is the one i want to stick, the reason bitcoin is an attractive asset and money to hold and carries two properties enticing to someone that wants to store wealth in it, have not changed. no one can change them. the theory and thesis on why bitcoin is important to the world is as profound as is ever been and it will remain that way. bitcoin has time-honored side. the macroenvironment plays a game of twister to figure itself out, bitcoin will do its thing. it's a simple supply and demand metrics when you know supplies fixed, and demand is the only thing that sets the price. ed: bitcoin is going to do its thing. the other consideration we are focused on is the regulators.
thankfully, powell has been speaking about crypto. let's have a listen. >> we think the central bank is and will always be the main source of trust behind money, stablecoin essentially borrow that trust from the underlying issuer and in many cases these are dollar stablecoins. they are borrowing that trust. ed: jack, i appreciate, he was talking about stablecoins, but he is saying that trust has to come from central banks. your system and your thesis is the opposite, right? jack: trust has to come from central banks. the guy that runs the central bank happened to say that. come on. let me tell you something. i am an individual, an american. trust in money comes from wherever i want my money to be held in. that is not defined for anyone else but myself. it's democracy. i appreciate the comment of mr. powell. i am going to decide who i trust
and what assets i want to hold, unless that is all of a sudden illegal or frowned upon. while that is my take. i like a system that is bounded to the physical realities of the world. money cannot be created out of thin air. money cannot be free. what do i want the cost of crating money to be, i like a natural resource that is bound to the physical world like energy. that is an awesome way to understand who gets to create money, the expense to which you created, and an adjustment and it network to see how hard it is. call me crazy, i prefer something like that. ed: right. we are running short of time. i want to ask you, i appreciate talking about the industry, with you. you just raised money and you are founder and ceo, how was that? crypto volatility aside, what was your experience? jack: i am 28 years old. i have learned so much. running a company is not is --
not easy. it's difficult. building a business around making the world a better place is an exciting challenge. health is wealth. i have appreciated and enjoyed all of our experiences. we are strong company in the future is bright for us. i don't know. what you want me to say? i love my job. i love what i'm trying to do for the world. i am really excited about the years ahead. ed: we are grateful to have you on. strike founder and ceo jack mallers. coming up, southeast asia, ride-hailing company, our conversation with the company cfo about reaching profitability by 2024, next. this is bloomberg. ♪
and delivery giant grab expressed -- express revenue to rise sharply in 2024, speeding up to revert years of losses. the company will focus on expanding its new areas, such as grocery, banking and advertising. i caught up with the cfo peter oey, to discuss. >> we have this marketplace for credit efficiency and monetary at the same time. part of serving our merchants, we have over 4 million merchants on our platform, whether they are small businesses, medium-size businesses are franchise restaurants food service is on our platform. how do we serve them better? advertising is one of those elements we can serve them better. we have a lot of data on our merchants. we have a lot of data on our consumers, how'd he put those two together? -- howdy put those two together? we see early wins on
advertising, we continue to expand on that, developed technology behind that. we feel very strongly that advertising, as part of our future growth will benefit the ecosystem, especially our merchant in southeast asia. ed: on the delivery front, but looks like the competition is coming for you in key markets like singapore, a lot of names entering the market. howdy pull off this profitability goal and defend market shares at the same time? peter: competition has always been here in southeast asia. we are focused on making sure oour product and services continue to be one our consumer will continue to use. we have seen engagement. we have seen continuing interaction with our app. our drivers and as well as our merchants. we are going to continue to be
very -- to create this ecosystem , despite what we see around us with new competitors or existing competitors that we have. we also have one of the strongest balance sheets we have in southeast asia. ed: is there room for all of these players? do you see can dollar -- consolidation happening in southeast asia? what about m&a? peter: organic growth is key for us. we will continue to be focused on growing the ecosystem. we've got all of the initiative we talked about. we are going to continue to develop new products and services. we've got to continue to broaden our plan. it is broadening as we have these new services that we're creating, things like digital banks, things we never had before, advertising we've never had before. we will continue to focus and execute on organic growth. again, part of that is making sure our super app strategy flourishes here in southeast
lorsch -- asia. ed: there was a time where $6 billion seems like a lot of money. it doesn't seem like a lot of money anymore. we need to raise more capital? -- will you need to raise more capital? will you talk to uber and softbank? peter: their framework is one of the top that we have discussed. one of the first pillar, alluded to was cash preservation. we are making sure every penny counts and every cost is been optimized. we will continue to be disciplined to make sure cash is preserved. we are very fortunate we have one of the largest balance sheet in southeast asia. we will continue to make sure we deploy our capital appropriately and in the most disciplined way, and make sure our balance sheet is strong with ample liquidity. we have one in existence.
we have a facility. it has been in place for the last two years. it is part of our capital allocation framework. different capital structure works. we are in a good spot no in terms of where we are -- we are in a good spot now in terms of where we are with our balance sheet. as we get to breakeven in the future, we feel that our balance sheet will continue to be strengthened in the future years. ed: that was peter oey, grab's cfo. the arcade game astro has come to light. the nasa spacecraft, that successfully crashed into an asteroid, about 6.8 million hours from earth. it was a test to does -- determine if the impact can nudge the rock off course. the space agencies in the early stages to protect the earth from asteroids. this measurement showed the asteroid, course, if slightly
altered,, nasa will figure this mission a success. that's it for our -- that's it for this edition of bloomberg tech. we will hear about the future of fintech. don't forget to check out our podcast. you can find it on the terminal and as well as online, apple, spotify and iheart radio. this is bloomberg. ♪
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