tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg November 17, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
caroline: i am caroline hyde. ed: this is bloomberg technology. caroline: the man behind enron liquidation and ftx's ceo says prior management of the disgraced crypto empire is the worst he has ever seen. overseeing the bankruptcy saying of -- tweeting is hurting their case. ed: cisco's ceo joins us to talk about supply chain improvements and the need for job cuts. caroline: a week away from holiday shopping season. digital retailers more important than ever. macy's ceo joins us exclusively. but her scum a check on markets. as borrowing costs rise, most interest rate responsive stocks fall. that is technology. s&p 500 up by .3%. big tech was in the line of fire.
this is where the main volatility was. the barn market. the two year yield pushing up 10 basis points on the day. that is we hear the narrative coming from the federal reserve. we think bullard and kashkari. citing more hawkish all over again. we are thinking of the fact that the market and the economy looks pretty strong. jobless claims today lower than expected, showing that the jobs market is still very resilient. we hear that push back against a narrative that the federal reserve is returning and we look at borrowing costs pushing higher. actually, this mood music turning sour was not the same case everywhere. in china, money still going into the market as many anticipate the unwinding of covid policies. some say now the market is overdone. in one month we have seen a 20% increase in the internet stocks that are tracked by the etf crane.
the key etf we track in the u.s. money moving into those areas still. ed: i'm going to look at alibaba later. it is hard on a day when technology investors are focused on the fed and the outlook for rates to talk about the reasonable -- between names. six -- they are talking about job cuts. even with such a bullish outlook. we speak to their cfo shortly and that is a creek -- a key question. airbnb bringing new tools to expand inventory on the platform. the stock down 5%. amazon and tesla, the biggest rags on the nasdaq. crypto. crypto. that's the story right now. specific tokens starting to stabilize. solon are is an example. very much tied to the ftx empire, the token was trading at a 40 handle before this started.
we have stabilized, but are not being pulled in the right direction. everyone in the story of ftx's collapse is wait and see because we do not extend -- we do not understand the extent to what is happening. caroline: exhausted from the tweets we have to read. let's talk about this collapse a little more. their new ceo has been slamming the nonexistent oversight in the misuse of client funds, saying they are struggling to locate billions of dollars in missing assets. katie greifeld is here with the shock that what we read, that bankruptcy statement coming finally. what did you make of the more sensational parts? katie: this is just day one. the first thing we have seen from john j right the third. like you highlighted, this was the men who helped liquidate and run and drove that, saying this is a complete failure of corporate controls and such a complete absence of trustworthy
financial information. really slamming the record-keeping that was going on. what caught my eye was this treasure trove. he also took to task the concentration of control as well. it sounds like a lot of it rested with spf, which is a small handful of people. combine that with shoddy record-keeping and here you are. ed: a big part of this story is looking for things and not knowing where they are. the administrators are looking at ftx, the digital assets they held and saying, where are they? katie: it is a pressing question. we know they were able to locate about 740 million dollars worth of cryptocurrency in cold wallets. they found about $560 million in cash. add that together, you are still missing billions of dollars. like we were saying, the record-keeping was halfhearted
and messy. according to the sworn declaration. that is a puzzle that needs to be solved. and then you think about how this is actually going to be distributed to the different creditors, of which there is more than $1 million, it is a process. caroline: we tried to get answers from our viewers. you responded to us on twitter. we put the poles out to you and we wanted to get a gauge of what is the most extraordinary part of this? is it to the new ceo's reaction? is it sam bankman-fried himself? the cryptic tweets? is it the fact that he is now facing questioning from a legal perspective. most people thought it was just all crazy. what other tidbits can you bring us? katie: it is -- it has got to be the tweets. he is tweeting through that. you combined that with the dm's that incredible report from vox.
ftx lawyers citing his "insistent and disruptive tweeting" while accusing him of undermining the bankruptcy case. it escapes me. caroline: this one i think there is potential photograph evidence of him in a supermarket in the bahamas. katie: we run in the same circles. caroline: we thank you for being on top of this story. we want to get you more perspective on the ramifications. i am pleased to welcome back to the show jill gunther, chief strategy officer. providing scaling and privacy systems for web three applications. great to hear your voice. you are someone who helped put money to work in this space. you are now building out this ecosystem. how much of a knock has it had across the entirety of exchanges
and more broadly? >> i have been fortunate to be in this space for the last decade. as you mentioned, whether that is on the investing side, were now on a building side. i have to say, i have never seen a tragedy of this scale. it is a tragedy for retail investors came into this space and put to work with ftx who didn't fully understand what the mission of the was about. it is also a tragedy of crypto as a whole that it is being dragged down. it seemed to be fraudulent and criminal on the part of just a few actors in the space. ftx is not crypto. it is not representative of the industry. it is not what the industry was founded to solve. ed: i have been excited to talk to you because you cover basically the entire ecosystem.
yes you are cso at espresso, but you are a venture capitalist. could you tell caroline and i what conversations you are having with friends behind the scene? what are people talking to each other about? >> the biggest take away amongst builders in this space, of which i am lucky to be one, is that this is not what crypto is about. crypto is a technology that was founded to bring accountability, openness and transparency to financial systems. if you look at the big coin white paper, the advent of the space as a whole created in 2000 date in the wake of the financial crisis that was playing out, it was created to reduce the necessity to trust middlemen with your finances and with your assets. unfortunately, i think though as an industry has fallen short in a few capacities.
we have yet to build good enough user experience around the products. they truly do take advantage of the openness, transparency and accountability it can offer. because of that, people have trusted their assets to centralized exchanges like ftx and they have gotten lost on what the actual core value proposition is of the technology. they have also gotten caught up in the speculative height around crypto as an asset class while losing track of its value proposition as a technology. i think amongst builders in this space, amongst the entrepreneurs who have been building whether it is for six months or six years, there is simultaneously a feeling of despondency that this is the mainstream view of crypto right now. that they are somehow representative of that. there is a real feeling of galvan as a shin that this is our opportunity and if anything,
this should drive home to people why the core value prop of crypto is necessary. why we do want technologies that put trust in middlemen and trusted intermediaries that spf purported to be among. caroline: passionately said. there is a lot of passion and anger, but also a lot of committed capital that is still there. we have heard of perhaps institutional players who are looking at investing in the actual asset class perhaps pulling back. but what of those who are building? are you worried about those checks that are ready to be deployed, are they still being cut for companies such as yours? >> yes. my sense is that there will be, rightly, an increase in scrutiny and diligence being done around companies. the standards will also be raised to ensure that companies are not just building another casino, but are building for
real utility and real value and sustainable revenue and business models that are not just founded on a pyramid of tokens. i for one welcome that. many builders in this space welcome that. that level of diligence has been missing for a while. i think there are many reasons for that. people have had the sense over the last decade that there was easy money to be made. that was a combination of everything from interest rates to a speculative bubble around poorly understood technology. i think that has been washed out from the investor side and that is a good thing. >> we are just getting this conversation started. jill gunther, espresso systems. thank you. cisco beating expectations and raising its full-year forecast. but it is also the latest company announcing job cuts. more on that next.
being on the organization side of layoffs is you know people's lives are at stake. if you are an empathetic person, which i am, you can't but help about the think about the impact this is going to have on people. >> camilla had the misfortune of working for queen -- three companies in nine months that did layoffs. while there is no good way to fire people, there is definitely a bad way. >> do not fire a massive number of people over zoom or email. to not diminish their contributions to the company and make sure you are showing gratitude for the time, effort and love that people have put into their jobs. it is much harder to trust a leader who is not capable of owning their own fallibility than it is to trust someone who will own up to their mistakes and take that on board and move forward. it is really important to treat the people who are being laid off with that respect.
giving the people impacted a chance to say goodbye. treating them in a human way and not just cutting them off every way goes a long way towards the experience of the people who are leaving and the people who are remaining in terms of the ability to move on. ed: that was alex webb. and check out camilla boyer. bloomberg tv also spoke to airbnb's brian chesky. here's what he had to say. >> 2.5 years ago, we lost 80% of our business. we laid off 20%. i said at the time that we were going to be prepared for anything to come. any storm. we stage disciplined for two point five years, anticipating difficult times ahead and said no matter what happens in the economy, we do not want to change how we run the company and that is only possible if we stay disciplined. we only have 6000 employees. we arlene.
beginning of the year, we were only planning on hiring 7% more. other companies that were not growing as fast as us were going to hire 20% more. because of that and the strength of our business, we are not stepping on the brakes. we are still hiring. we are not freezing. we are growing. ed: airbnb ceo brian chesky. speaking of layoffs, cisco closed 4.7% higher thursday after an up beat revenue forecast. and like many other companies, unveiling a plan to cut jobs. cfo scott herren joins us now for more. let's push this forward. bullish outlook for the last three months of the year. at the same time, acknowledging a changing macro picture. you are preparing for the worse. how do you balance that? >> i think it is different. thanks for having me. great to see you. i'm a big fan.
we had a great first quarter. record highs -- record high revenues. earnings-per-share and revenues above the high end of our guidance range it on the back of a lot of hard work have been doing. to build a recurring revenue model and manage supply chain issues. the performance is quite good. we did announce a small restructuring today. i think it is a big different than the way perhaps you have heard from other companies. ours is about rebalancing. the headcount we had at the beginning of the year, we estimate the same number at the end of the year. you're trying to marshal more resources and focus into key areas which means we have to calm down and some other areas. we are focusing more on platforms and capabilities within our networking business and security. our goal through internal placement is to place as many of those who were displaced into some of the open jobs on the
other end. this is not a cost motivated, cost savings motivated restructuring. caroline: talk to us about security. clouds. are they the areas that a corporate agency, a client cannot do without? why the bullishness into this deteriorating outlook? >> it is a couple of things. one of them i just talked about. we are more than 40% of our revenue now recurring. we built up more than $30 billion of remaining performance. you hear the phrase rpo. that's sales we have transacted that have not yet shown up in revenue streams. we start each quarter with a nice recurring revenue base. also because of some supply concerns, we have built up a significant order backlog. put those two together and demand is what demand is. we had our second-highest q1 product orders in history.
we continue to see good demand. if got our base of recurring revenue and a backlog. we have great visibility into the next several quarters. ed: traditionally, cisco is viewed as this legacy tech name. not so exciting, if you don't mind me saying. but you are trying to do something new, move into the and recurring revenue, be more in everyone's face every day. how is that going? >> it is going great. it is one of the reasons you hear the bullish outlook from us at a time when there is a fair amount of uncertainty. 43% of our revenue are coming from recurring revenue models. that is subscriptions, sass, recurring revenue models attached to hardware we ship. frankly, we have built up a large order backlog.
trapped in there is another $2 billion of software revenue. i think it has gone well. there is room for us to accelerate. caroline: let's talk about what analysts are saying. citibank -- citigroup saying negative dumb. what you say to that? >> i will say what i said earlier. it was down on a year on year basis by 14%. compared to a q1 last year that was up 34%. it is hard. the compare point is why just the arithmetic gives you that. the better way to look at it is what is happening sequentially. when you've got an anomaly quarter we are comparing to and our fourth quarter last year, first and second quarter both had greater than 30% growth.
the arithmetic is tough. the better way to gauge what is happening in terms of customer demand is, how do the sequential's compared to what you have seen historically? from that standpoint, it was below but pretty much in line would we have seen as a historical range. it was our fourth quarter to our first quarter. the sequential's look fine. second-highest q1 in terms of product orders we have had in the history of the company. caroline: difficult year on your palms. scott herren. keep watching. coming up, what's new in the vc world? and before we had to break, a softer tone apparently coming from elon musk. according to people familiar with the matter, he is now trying to retain staff by softening his remote -- softening his remote work mandate. some workers are opting in.
♪ ed: let's look at top headlines. geithner global raising $6 billion for its next fund. looking to morgan stanley for help. the fund will invest in startups across the enterprise space and tech in indiana. in singapore, i globe partners raising $200 million for a new fund that will back deep tech. it is the fifth fund for the vc which is mostly led by women. founded in silicon valley before moving to singapore and investment startups with deep
scientific backgrounds. members of dubai and abu dhabi's royal families joining forces to back a london-based startup company. aai coach develops ai products for government, health care and insurance sectors. caroline: some of my conversation with the ceo of macy's. we want to be focusing in on whether investing and whether you are going to brick and water or wanting to splash cash. this is bloomberg.
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francisco. a giant story today. ed: i'm looking at alibaba. the stock is up almost 8%, but it posted a surprising loss. it is all about covid zero policy which is impacting consumer demand in china. also about disruptions to supply chain. the stock is trading at its highest level in six weeks. we're zeroing in on the retail space in e-commerce. also other opportunities for alibaba. speaking with retail, macy's is really interesting. the biggest jump since may. strong performance. for me there are two sides to the story. the e-commerce side of the business back toward pre-pandemic 2019 levels, but you look at the role that
technology played. at this is a smart company and so many different names are very -- faring so differently. caroline: it got an upgrade from s&p. we had an exclusive conversation about digital strategy heading into the holiday. >> back in 2019, our digital channel business was -- 33% versus the pre-pandemic of 25%. still very robust growth. even though our business was down to 21 it was up 35% to 2019. i think this evolution of the customer on the channel journey and more of those transactions being in digital, that's good to
continue. there is a new baseline that is being established versus where we were two years ago when customers did not feel as comfortable going to brick-and-mortar locations to buy. caroline: what about cyber monday? are the prediction something you lean into? >> yes as an example, we are looking carefully at how much of our digital business was being done in late october last year? how much to be think of that is going to shift into cyber monday and cyber week? we expect a higher spike. we expected to go down in the first two weeks of december than it did come back the last 10 days before christmas. caroline: therefore, your investment. this is a time when companies are pulling back in terms of investing. are you still looking to commit money into digital? how do you ascribe the money order to spend? >> if i look at the macy's
strategy pre-and post-pandemic, one of the things i'm proud of is what we're doing with our financial strength. you look at our balance sheet and when you think about our capital allocation, the first thing is investing in the business. we are deeply committed to ensuring that we are top-notch in digital, we have to modernize the supply chain to accommodate that, we are investing in our team of people of colleagues and that is serving us well. we have not stepped back from that. are back -- our average has been spending $1 billion and you can expect that in the coming years. caroline: that was the macy's
ceo. for more on retail, the environment we are currently within, we want to bring in our next guest. macy's, a lot of what they're doing is inventory. how was the buildup in other inventory going to affect us from an e-commerce perspective? >> i think what's going on is the retailers had such a bad experience last year where they were so under stock and desperate, it was good because they didn't have to discount. this year, they have built. -- preemptively and the consumers are out looking for deals and the retailers can't be stuck with loads of inventory
after the holidays. ed: you talked about preempting inventories. didn't amazon preempt the entire season with an additional prime window? >> absolutely. sales are happening earlier and earlier than ever before. amazon started their prime day in october which had never been done before. you are also sing walmart doing digital deals every monday of november and offering early access to their walmart plus consumers. consumers are starting to buy earlier and you are seeing e-commerce brands the start of those deals earlier are faring ok. once it started veterans day. whereas the ones that are starting now are off to a slow start. caroline: what's interesting is that with macy's, where they see the difference is sales climbing
at the more luxurious brands. how differently our you want to see the different income bracket impact? >> it applies to all brackets and that everyone is making trade-offs and what they are spending. at the lower bracket, they are going to go for that accessible luxury but they might look for an item that is under $100. navy it's a luxury listed -- lipstick or small accessory. the lower end is going to strive to do fewer nicer but accessible luxury. at the upper end, you always have a certain segment of population that is not affected. you see things like lvmh continue to do well. ed: you've had a storied career at some of the giants of consumer goods. now you are starting on the
investor end of the curve. is there an opportunity? lots of layoffs from the big names. what is the e-commerce landscape outside of amazon? >> it's an interesting time and venture because it's a tough time and particularly for consumer and consumer tech. what you are seeing is a lot of consumer brands are being judicious with their spend not only because they are concerned about the consumer and worried that this might be a more tapered holiday season but number two, they are trying to extend the runway. they know they need to show strong numbers to their investors. need to show a positive ratio. they are being very thoughtful about how much pay to spend they are using. inking about how they can acquire customers more cost-effectively, what channels to use. caroline: we are having a bit of a laugh today about tressa may
at on youtube going into the metaverse and it looked deeply awkward and uncomfortable. overall, what are the innovations being made to make us want to shop in a more exciting different way? >> part of it is there is a shift right now that we have all been trapped at home for so long and even the people who are permanently shifting to work from home are starting to think about shopping as entertainment. i think we will continue to see more retail concepts, more shopping as an experience. i was just thinking about starbucks taking over three floors of the and parsley building as somewhere interesting to go and shop for coffee. i think you will see more innovation in retail spaces becoming more engaging, more
integrating technology to make it more interesting. i do think that brands will continue to experiment. whether the metaverse as it stands today is going to truly pan out, i think brands will continue to experiment because that's what attracts new consumers. caroline: thank you so much. coming up, how regulatory priorities are changing in the wake of the ftx blowup. this is bloomberg. ♪
caroline: ftx let's talk about it again. it is creating a headache for almost all of crypto right now. either capital holding a lot of either tokens. half of which are state. >> a lot of questions around what happens to the crypto universe from here. there's a lot of logic about d5 coming out on top. where does that logic hold and where to simply -- breakdown? >> we need easy access for consumers, institutions who aren't comfortable holding the assets themselves. but some people have lost the
narrative who have decided to just trust decentralized entities whether they were regulated or not regulated here in the u.s. or in a foreign jurisdiction. people are going to go out, do more research, hold these firms accountable and demand more transparency and there's going to be access points. there will be pain in the short-term as the industry figures out how to go through this turmoil and build self back in a better way. caroline: retail is unfortunately getting hurt by this. what's interesting about this is how many sophisticated investors have also been duped. what is the investing appetite right now in this space? >> it's either pens down or people are going to pause writing checks. they will let the teams decide if it's appropriate. institutions will start to look toward holding tokens instead of investing in the picks and shovels.
there isn't likely a universe where the centralized entity does very well but bitcoin and either fail but there is a world where the centralized entity who is trying to insert agency or rent abstraction in this where it is about peer-to-peer transactions. some institutions aren't able to hold because maybe there is a mandate internally where they aren't allowed to hold the assets direct so the way to play the space is to invest in companies and they will shift your attention back toward the blue chips. bitcoin, either take a long view. i think there's going to be a recalibration. caroline: talk to us about the staking and the yield farming and the tainted element of that. and he would say it was too good to be true and thus it was. >> we also have to separate that the failure was not crypto itself. bitcoin is fine. ethereum's fine.
this is just bad actors, poor governance. by the way, there is no regulation that can prevent what happened. you can put out better guardrails but if you have bad actors internally at the c-suite level and bad management and lack of oversight, someone who is variously intentionally trying to do something, it's going to happen regardless of what paper they sign and they filed in a certain jurisdiction. can we get better? 100%. in terms of staking, if people go and hold the token direct, the opportunity to generate 4% to 6% while holding your asset -- caroline: you can get that on the treasury now. >> yes but people aren't buying either and staking it because they want to capture that yield. these are people who are long on the technology. they believe in neutral protocol that is going to confirm a
number of activities whether it is defi , and fts, stable verse movement, why wouldn't i want 4% to 6%? it's an attractive opportunity. >> you have seen yields jump meaningfully higher. there's no free lunch. 10% is very hard to sustain. how sustainable are the surges in yields and do you get concerns when you look at occurs pool and see imbalances starting to form? >> the yield has never gone to 20%. the yield is a calculation based on how many other participants are staking their asset, how many transactions are taking place at any given time and they are paying a transaction fee to have their activities validated. the yield is going to bounce around. other they stay up at 6% or drop to 2%, i don't know.
i would say that staking offer the lowest risk rate you can get . it's not completely risk-free, but it is effectively a bond with the protocol and that is as safe as you can basically get other than just holding and looking away. >> how do you feel about actors, you have the ftx hacker that emerged with a large stack of ether. when someone is amassing at that kind of rate and you don't who it is, what are the concerns behind that? >> the concerns are you have a company that filed for chapter 11 hours before that and how is that authorized? who had access to the internal controls to allow a wallet move hundreds of millions of dollars out of the exchange? defi did it's thing. if you stayed up on friday night, it was wild to watch on twitter the entire community following this assets as they were trying to be moved through
various protocols and swapped into different assets, different funds. people still don't know necessarily who it is but they had that transparency in time we will hopefully find out who that was. it's difficult to hide in that space and when they try to touch some centralized exchange cash out now or in the future, they will be brought to justice. >> understanding the spaces going to be volatile for a while longer, what is the risk to the downside? >> retail investors and institutions that were just warming up to the asset class have been spooked. they aren't sure what credible access point is going to be. ftx was one of the most trusted brands in the space. people are going to go back to the drawing board, do their homework and decide again do they want exposure, do they believe in the technology long-term?
what is an appropriate access point? the industry will emerge better because of this but there is some downside as someone who needs liquidity tries to sell their assets. caroline: coming up, we bring you what's going viral. jimmy fallon versus elon musk and taylor swift versus ticketmaster. this is bloomberg. >> rip jimmy fallon has been trending on twitter. this is awful. [laughter] ♪
job is to entertain you. caroline: that is the opening of the tonight show with jimmy fallon. after the #rip jimmy fallon was trending on twitter. elon musk replied. twitter is putting up safeguards to flag tweets with misinformation. we left, we find it amusing, but this is something bigger. this is someone not being able to control the narrative about themselves. this is about looking toward november 29 when the new payable subscriptions service gets unfolded at twitter. ed: none of it works and a chat show had to come out and prove his own mortality.
taylor swift is taking down ticketmaster so to speak and she's not alone. aoc and amy klobuchar are calling for ticketmaster and the parent live nation to be broken up after technical difficulties trying to obtain tickets for taylor swift's latest tort. ticketmaster has now canceled plans to sell those tickets to the general public this friday. what i don't understand is house -- who's fault is this? you have the lawmakers saying about the platform we have to break it up. you had the fans saying we just want to buy tickets. have taylor swift saying on the problem it's me. this is chaos and it has everyone talking. the big picture is i don't have a ticket and i'm not going. caroline: do you want to go? is that the question? were you amid the flood of billions of people trying to access it all at the same time?
the fact that live nation is trying to blame the ultimate popularity of taylor swift rather than their own systems? ed: i like the new album. but it's chaos. almost 3.5 billion people trying to access the site or hits to get chaos -- to get tickets is chaos. caroline: do you like her that much? ed: no comment. caroline: take it to twitter. friday in the studio we have the grinder ceo. go check us out on social media. this is bloomberg. ♪
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