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tv   Bloomberg Technology  Bloomberg  December 5, 2022 11:00pm-12:00am EST

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>> i am caroline hyde in new york.
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>> this is bloomberg technology. >> the executive exodus of salesforce hot on the heels of rotella's departure. >> microsoft is willing to fight for its 59 billion dollar takeover of activision blizzard. we will discuss what could be the major test for fcc commissioner in a car. >> and investigating crypto funds over misleading advertisements. next year could be another brutal one per bitcoin and it could go as low as $5,000. you know i love the macro. it was growing strong. what then in terms of the rate
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hikes that are still yet to really try to curtail some of that excess demand in the system we see in the united states? the dollar for -- the dollar finishes its route. china actually got a bit in. we saw a 9% move for this hong kong tech focus index. the reason we are seeing more bullishness committed chinese stocks, we were having more hopes that there would be curtailment in those covid lockdowns. you are hearing about them all using the testing requirements so the adr is getting a boost. activision blizzard is up. microsoft is willing to fight. particularly in the regulatory contest. tests are done after a bloomberg report that it would cut production in china at its shanghai plan.
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we will dig into that show salesforce down 7%. really interesting. there is just a wave of executive departures. it is not just about executive departure. we will have a conversation around growth as well. this is a company that has had decent double-digit growth. that has changed. so has the change in leadership on the top of that company. >> that great note coming from our colleague really talking about the pressure building because of that lack of organic growth and whether the restructuring cap of awesome can become a hit or a miss. bret taylor, only last week and then a couple that were announced for him, now we get the latest. the executive vice president all eggs stage left.
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that is quaint the exit is. that is why the revolving door. why are we getting any sort of feeling on what is making them leave? >> one thing that a lot of people are expecting is that salesforce spent a lot of money on the acquisitions. it did not say we are getting rid of stuart because of this. much of their leadership has left in recent months. this is restructuring. collect there was a lot of focus on software and the cloud. we spoke to one of the cios at blackrock. >> you are seeing growth slow but you're still seeing positive growth. particularly in software. i think it is a very good sector. there are pockets in the sector. valuations got out of whack.
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i am still optimistic on technology. >> they pretty much described salesforce. this is a company that has slowed down on the top line. benioff has to prove that he has to change that somehow. >> there is an interesting debate and investors. some people want to see salesforce become a growth company. keep that top line healthy and make some big acquisitions. you really need to boost those profits. they are in a tough spot even when you don't consider the fact that -- as we went viral that said if you have brent taylor in your company, throw yourself in a volcano to keep them. they could not keep them. >> interesting. there is more pressure to prove there is a bench there.
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a bench of future leaders who can drive organic growth. it can't all be about one man. she is the leader from the core salesforce products. that shows you they are trying to further integrate it into the wider salesforce, a more traditional way of doing things. when brent left, a lot of people say stuart butterfield is the one that did that. five years later, stuart leaves. -- five days later, stuart leaves. >> we will keep tracking that one. let's move on to china and to test out. after the ev maker plans to lower production in its shanghai factory. this could be the latest sign that demand in china is not perhaps meeting expectations.
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tesla shares closing down 6% in new york. morningstar equity strategist seth goldstein here with us for more insight on this. it is interesting. in the month of november, tesla had a record month for domestic deliveries. more than 100,000 units. we are getting some sense if these reports are accurate that they are looking at the near term demand and pulling back. what is your read on this? >> if you look at the first two months of the quarter, they were selling at production based on the new expanded capacity. then you are seeing the new energy vehicle marketed in china. and due to potential macro headwinds, we could see a downturn next year. i think that tesla is saying we need to adjust production so we are not caught with a lot of excess inventory ending the year.
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>> when we asked tesla to comment on this bloomberg report, they did not respond or comment on the report. even so, china is an interesting market because there are many more domestic players offering many more models then perhaps here in the united states or europe. what kind of a lever can tesla use for pricing when it comes to demand and getting some more demand built up in that market? >> we have seen tesla and other chinese automakers cut prices in recent months. i think that can happen. when you look at tesla and china, they don't have competitive advantages that they do in the u.s. and europe. they are not using their proprietary battery technology so they don't have the ecological advances.
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they just don't have as big of a lead in china as they do elsewhere. >> that is so interesting. when i first saw the headline i thought here is another company being hit by supply chain issues. the supply side, not the demand side. as tesla been able to ramp up in shanghai as it wanted to? >> i think we will see them committed to shanghai. there was a low cost of production for them. i think they will still be producing -- that will be one of their key factories even as they ramp up their long-term growth plan. >> talk to us about whether shanghai can be more useful to them as an exporting hub more generally or how much is this ability to serve the local community and how much they ship across europe to the u.s.?
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are they making it from our perspective of profitability? is it a good shift? >> it is a lower cost of production. china is still the largest auto market. so it is important to be producing there and being able to manufacture in china and south of the chinese consumers but tesla is also trying to grow their presence throughout the rest of asia. they are trying to grow in the middle east and africa. that allows them to do so and then focus more on those markets as they ramp up to serve the european markets. >> i want to get your take on something is likely different which was the semitruck event that they had recently. the reason it came to mind was i was looking in the investor deck and the table of the different products produced in different parts of the world. shanghai is modeled why, model three. it got me thinking about how they manage all of this, prioritize resources for example
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with semi trucks. particularly resources as it relates to batteries. do you think they can pull that off? >> i think they can. they produce different batteries based on the different factories as well. they will be producing for the semitruck and for the cyber truck. tesla is very good at raw materials and inventory management. i would expect this to continue even as they try to make multiple different types of batteries. >> i think overall, largely, just talk to us about your perspective on china right now and the global supply chain and whether or not we are seeing companies feel it is less desirable to be there. >> when we look at the letter vehicle supply chain, it will be
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in point for u.s. companies to start decoupling a little bit from china because the inflation reduction act requires companies to get them from the u.s. or free trade agreement partners. for a company like tesla, i think it is important to focus on the u.s. operation, one focusing on china, that will allow them to maximize the incentive for consumers and take advantage of those u.s. reduction act subsidies. >> we will leave it there. there was seth goldstein. thank you very much. coming up, we will bring you the latest on the microsoft activision deal and what other antitrust cases might be out there to watch. as we got to break, i want to take a look at vodafone group, following makes an announcement that he will step down at the end of this year, he tried to make some deals and the stock price has been sliding, sliding, sliding. he has not been able to hold it.
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the interesting. this is a name that is familiar to you and are familiar to me. the chief officer will do the job on an interim basis while they look for a new ceo. vodafone. >> look at it. no commitment for who will be taking over. and the fact that they are paying him out on a 12 month contract as well, this is a significant move for this company as they have been trying to make deals in italy and spain, trying to be able to maneuver the company. trying to become more of a focused business and yet we see the implications on a 44% erosion of share price over the course of the year. he did make a sizable deal only recently. the fact that he listed that business to venter's towers. he raised 16 billion dollars, 16 billion euros is how much the deal was valued at. still, he has to bid farewell. >> he did something investors never like to see. act as if the dividend was an
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important -- cutting the dividend was an affordable thing to do. from new york, from san francisco, this is bloomberg. ♪
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>> let's talk about m&a. activision blizzard rose 1.5%. i thought about .7% high. that is if the u.s. federal trade commission does file a lawsuit seeking to block the deal. it has not yet. let's bring in -- let's bring in the senior fellow in d.c. for more on this. we sort of weight with bated
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breath about whether the u.s. will be doing it. we understand that you focusing on the u.k. as well. from your perspective, how much is regulation and pushback on this deal a likelihood across the u.s.? >> one interesting news point is today, microsoft's president had an op-ed in the wall street journal at 1:00. claiming the procompetitive reasons for the merger. i think you will see this will be a big battle in d.c.. there was talk that it would be a likely lawsuit but you need a vote from the commissioners before it can go out. i think with international attention to the u.k. and the eu, i think it is probable that it would go forward. it reminds me of the at&t time warner merger. >> we have to think about who might object to this and one
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name is tony. i am looking at the market share data. microsoft had the second-highest for games consoles. sony, slightly more than that. what is the issue here? why would sony be upset about the idea of microsoft by -- buying activision. >> microsoft is the second-highest at 34% and the nintendo at 4%. i guess they're concerned that microsoft would have competitive edge in cloud. that is an argument you are seeing floated around. >> i am interested. let's talk about the interest of the user here. we actually went out to our followers, to her audience that are on twitter. we wanted to give them a poll to see if they ultimately cared about whether activision is owned by microsoft or not.
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it seems as though they want to see the deal go through. it is called 82%. they think microsoft should be allowed to buy activision. when they make enough concessions to ensure that at no point me, the gamer suffers from this? >> i think the consumer might be worried that their access to call of duty would be foreclosed on sony playstation but even microsoft has said they are not in a position to want to even stop call of duty access on the playstation. arguments of foreclosure that that microsoft would hold back certain games seem to be weak. i think the game players know that if there is demand for call of duty, microsoft and activision would want to meet that demand. >> we want to dig in here. this is not happening in isolation. we heard earlier in the year and betty on that particular deal
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was kibosh. we know that meda will be going in front of the ftc and will try to be arguing its case about whether or not it should be willing to purchase within. i am interested in whether you think ultimately we will continue to see fears and pushback on these sorts of m&a deals. >> you have the context that right now lena con is coming at these mergers with a more activist position. even in the matter within action, the ftc dropped some claims in october and brought the lawsuit against their internal staff recommendations. you see a lot of -- a lot more ingressive -- a lot more aggressive enforcement actions. we still have to see what happens in court. >> we reported front of that microsoft is ready for the fight according to sources. what does that fight look like? how many key stages are left to go before this deal closes? >> you will need to see the ftc
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vote on the action and then you will see the complaint in court. at least from a reference point, i said earlier that this reminds me a lot of the at&t time warner merger fight a few years ago. in the end, there is so much fear mongering about foreclosure that tv channels would not be offered to other networks but four years later, at&t wanted to sell off their time warner assets. there is no guarantee that a merger would create anticompetitive effects and so we will just have to see what happens in trial and in the public eye. >> i know you're not a merger arbitrage specialist per se but what is your assessment on the likelihood of this deal going through? >> it is hard to say with the politics and i think a lot of it is depending on what the ftc is saying and what claims it brings.
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i think maybe they are gearing up for a long trial in court and at the end, if you see what happened with at&t and time warner, they might be congressional hearings. there might be a lot of back-and-forth but eventually it might go through. you don't know about the eu -- about the u.k. and the eu and the five other countries looking into this merger. to be determined. quick thank you very much. i find this fascinating about the ftc, their decisions to act, where to act. the next thing on our agenda is meta-as an example and my question is what is better? do it in-house or by someone? that is the question everyone is facing.
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i think this is perhaps where the concerns come around. we saw more on friday, met arguing that they think we should not be having regulation in the space but yet because you might choke off innovation. in large part, that was the argument leveled at crypto as well. i think we are seeing the arguments come forth should meda be allowed to buy in? the ftc has been super busy. just acknowledging it will be looking into the advertising around crypto. >> it is a case of picking battles that they have a lot crossing their desk right now. we will bring you the latest news in the world of global venture capital. this is bloomberg. ♪
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>> time for talking tech. we are taking a look at the water of start ups and global venture capital announcements. we start with new research co-authored by the federal reserve governor lisa cook showing that black founders of u.s. startups are raising just one third as much venture capital in the first five years of their life as other businesses in the same industry, the same state and those formed at the same time. part of the gap is down to factors like black firms have been founding teams or those founders coming from different schools than other vc leaders according to the report. and more news coming from ftx. brett harrison is raising money for a crypto software startup. that is according to sources who say the fundraising target could be as high as 10 million for a $100 million valuation. the idea to create software that crypto users could use to write algorithms for their strategies and access different types of
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crypto markets both centralized and decentralized. black street coffee is in talks to raise a new funding amount also according to sources and it could be valued at around $200 million. lake street is looking to top his last round valuation but there is no guarantee that will happen according to one of the sources. >> 200 million for a coffee chain? >> an expensive cup of coffee. we was -- what is the inflation made on that i wonder? we will be talking close to home. new york, airbnb, other short-term rental platforms being challenged by major cities. the restrictions we discussed. this is bloomberg. ♪
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caroline: welcome back to "bloomberg technology," i am caroline hyde in new york alongside ed ludlow in san francisco. we have to talk about new york city's strict rules of airbnb.
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the hosts are about to get an even more stringent pill to swallow. they met with property owners to discuss changes to short-term rental laws in the city. one of the most restrictive. michael is here. talk to us about what is fueling this debate at the moment. it is already pretty tough to rent out your apartment on airbnb. how much tougher can it get? guest: now you have to have an official license. under the current proposed regulation, you have to apply for a license. it would be $145. you have to submit a detailed diagram of the apartment, the fire escapes, exits, doors and things like that. you would have to include all the names of the people that live in the household with you, and their relationship to you. on top of that, you have to send in verifying details. utility bill, a government id,
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something else with your name and address to prove you live there. airbnb will not be able to process transactions for any of these properties that are not on the approved list. caroline: that is quite a set of rules. talk to us about the discussion points. when they're putting it to hosts, and indeed people that want to use the app, when they come to visit, what do they think about it? guest: this has been going on for a year or two, starting under the de blasio administration, and going into effect under the adams administration. we are in this comment period. today, there was a meeting where the hosts were talking with the office of special enforcement that enforces the rules. it was a spirited discussion between tenants that were upset that airbnbs had taken over their neighborhood, and people who lived in brooklyn and queens who say we have a single-family
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home and we want to rent out one room in our property. and earn income on that. there was lots of comments and debate that was going on. it shows the strain in the communities when you have a start up economy in a tight housing market. ed: new york city is one market for airbnb. it is an important market. one of the biggest domestically in the u.s. is this issue being replicated in other cities around america? what kind of challenge just airbnb face outside the new york area? guest: there is regulation pretty much everywhere you go, that is the long and short of it. in big bear, california, a really popular short-term rental destination there were proposals on the ballot there and they were voted down. in santa monica, california, there was legislation that the new york legislation was modeled off of.
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boston, it is in big towns, resorts, cities it is everywhere. it is not just a u.s. issue it is in barcelona, paris, all sorts of regulation to regulate short-term rentals. it is to address housing supply and making sure people can find adequate housing. ed: my mind goes to the hosts desk you have to remember what airbnb is. it is a platform where you share access for your home. many across america are feeling the pinch of inflation. what you hear from the hosts themselves? they must be arguing, i want to rent out this property is a means of getting income. guest: that is that, when you think of how expensive it is, given the inflation and the cost of everything. a lot of hosts say this is the only way to afford a mortgage
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payment, afford bills, some of the people that spoke were retirees. they said their pension and social security did not have enough bandwidth to make all the way. they use this as a way to supplement income. airbnb recognizes this is a way people can essentially make extra money. they have leaned into this going into next year. they have made it easier to get hosts online. they think if the economy continues to soften, and need income, they will list their home on airbnb. you have to think about, do people want to travel if the economy gets soft, right? how much discretionary spending will people have? will they go travel if the money will not go as far and get tough? ed: bloomberg's michael tobin reporting on airbnb. elon musk says apple has fully resumed advertising on twitter.
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the billionaire revealed the news during a twitter spaces conversation on the weekend. he added that they are the largest advertiser on the social media network. last week he blasted apple for pulling ads and threatening to pull from the app store. caroline: coming up, we are look at the ftc again, not only is it seeing if activision should be bought by microsoft are also probing crypto firms over the advertisements. this is bloomberg. ♪ ed: more bad news for the
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crypto space. the ftc is investigating crypto firms over misleading advertising. the judge will decide if lender celsius owns its users crypto. and circle says its plan expect listing -- its plan expect bama listing with concorde has been scrapped. hannah covers all things crypto for us. let's start with the ftc investigation. guest: we know they are investigating multiple firms at this point. it is unclear who specifically they are looking at. there are not a lot of issues with advertising in crypto. with ftx, investors are suing them over false advertising. ftx had multiple high-profile ads and sponsorships with tom
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brady and steph curry. there are pretty big names involved with this. ed: let's talk about circle as well. this has been in the works for quite some time. market conditions have changed. what did circle say about why this happened? i read in the story that neither side actively terminated the deal. guest: it is basically, they have said to us, it has been mutual. neither side made a move to terminate the deal. there is no bad blood between them. there is still a huge goal for circle to go public eventually. we know this was a $9 billion deal. crypto prices have declined significantly since they amended the deal terms in february. it is an interesting thing to see in the wake of ftx that they made this announcement. there has been a rout of the spac market.
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caroline: let's go to the story, a lot to do with a federal judge deciding who owns tokens that you lend out or gaining interest on. this is celsius, depositors put money into celsius expecting that the money was theirs and they are earning interest on it. in this bankruptcy hearing it could potentially not be theirs. guest: celsius is asking to sell crypto on its balance sheet for $18 million. the judge is trying to decide if they actually own that crypto or if it belongs to users. if users forfeited the crypto in exchange for gaining interest. the judge says he will decide on it as early as next week. it is still up in the air. it shows how crypto regulations are evolving. this is a new frontier for many legal experts. caroline: a new frontier with a
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barrage of bankruptcies. does this matter for the other players? will we see holdings that they have being argued this way? guest: this is a monumental thing for crypto lenders. it could set new president going forward. we do have a lot of lenders playing in the space. we have a lot of lenders touched by ftx contagion. i am thinking blockfi and genesis. it will be interesting to see what happens next and what the judge rules. caroline: i think it is always interesting to see what happens next in the world of crypto. we want to dig into the analysis of this and bring in another flavor of today. one of the main headlines that caught my attention was brutal when it comes to how much further we see crypto fall. particularly bitcoin, they've
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been looking at worst-case scenarios he says it could drop another 70% to just $5,000. one of the more extreme outcomes. he is also talking about the men -- demand swinging from the digital dollar to the old-fashioned gold depending on the fed rate hike cycle. head of strategy over at coin share, it is always great to have your voice on our programming. talk to us about your outlook for the more resilient crypto. bitcoin has fallen hard come in this tumbled of the last month or so many have talked about the resilience it has found. could it sink further to 5000? guest: the big thing to look at, obviously after the fallout of three arrows capital, using bitcoin as collateral. we did see a selloff.
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it has stayed to the 15 to 20 range. we think it will stay there. even with the ftx collapse, we did not see a huge selloff in bitcoin. the collateral utilized by ftx to guarantee and secure loans is primarily ftt and other cryptocurrencies. who are the big sellers of bitcoin? there is never a dull day in crypto, there are not a lot of big sellers of bitcoin left. caroline: what about trading activity in general? there was the headline of binance seeing an increase after the ftx implosion. what is activity looking like from an activity's perspective?
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-- a trading perspective? >> we have to separate retail trading. it is reported on in coinbase public earnings, it is a great resource for gathering public information that is audited. that is why publicly listed companies. on the institutional side, we have not seen massive outflow or inflow into bitcoin or other digital currencies. on the derivative side of the market, we have not seen a material change since the summer. open interest remains at stable levels. the key question is, who are the participants in the market, how is the activity changing? i think generally we see
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investors taking a risk off approach in tech equities and crypto assets. it will be interesting to see as we head into the new year depending on the rate environment and sentiment on risk assets if it will flow back into bitcoin. i do not think that bitcoin and gold are substitutes. i do not think people that want exposure to bitcoin, a more volatile growth accept relegated to gold instead. ed: what about bitcoin relative to other cryptocurrencies? in times of duress, historically, bitcoin's dominance within the broader market of cryptocurrencies goes up. the headline of the story is that bitcoin as a status quo is making people nervous. it is hovering around 40%. given the recent chaos, the drop in value of a broad range of
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digital assets, why is there not more love for bitcoin? guest: one of the challenges for bitcoin, that we are watching closely is the mining side of bitcoin. there is fundamental dynamics of incoming supply of newly mind bitcoin into the market and new buyers of the bitcoin. one of the things we will be watching for is the economics of bitcoin mining. how they will sell or hold the bitcoin to cover expenses. the big thing look out for is the inflows and outflows.
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the last two quarters, ever since the summer we saw the major drop in bitcoin following the forced liquidation and selling of the three arrows. it was much more bitcoin and ethereum centric. we have not seen a moving bitcoin, has been trade range bound. with the ftx incident we do not see a major pool of the coin coming to market. it is a question of if it will there be new inflows in the new year that can kick off the upside. ed: we have been excited to get you on the show. we finally have the opportunity to ask your take on ftx. what happened? guest: i think, again, as we look at the crypto space broadly. coinshares is a publicly listed
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company, it is a painful exercise for a company. it is extremely important as a space grows and matures we have that transparency and oversight and the governance, the reporting that comes from being publicly listed. while it is not a panacea against fraud, it adds a lot of hurdles that companies have to go through. i think what we saw with what happened with ftx is the result of a lack of transparency and oversight. it was an exchange that was domiciled offshore. not in the united states of america. i think again as we move forward we are keen to see more firms operating either in a more public manner and providing more transparency. or the other step is to do more activity fully on chain. the ledger is public. that is why this technology is so exciting. we would love to see more firms embracing the public nature of the ledger and do things more public and more verifiable
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manner. our credo is do not trust, verify, let's use the technology to do that. caroline: with more companies going public, circle is not following through with his acquisition, no handholding. they are pushing through the day they were meant to make a decision, december the 10th. they still say they want to go public. do you think that will happen ultimately while we still have the fallouts ready to happen and uncertainty around the regulatory environment? guest: i think it will be challenging. there are a number of challenges for firms that want to go public. some of them are not unique to crypto. i think it is a generally challenging time for tech equities in particular and growth stocks. we have seen a massive hit on valuations, investor sentiment has shifted.
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we do not see the multiples we saw one or two years ago. i remember seeing stocks trading at 1200 forward. the other challenge the sec on the circle spac the clock ran out. there is time window for this to get done and the regulars are not picking up the documents and getting back to firms or letting the processes move forward as intended. until there is a change in washington dc, administrative leadership or policy itself, i think it will be challenging to see more firms go public. we do see other routes to public. via canada, a european jurisdiction, but then again i think america is the largest capital market in the world. it is important for firms to have the transparency. for analysts to cover crypto equities in the market to understand the fundamental differences in the business models between crypto firms. not all operate the same way or make money the same way.
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ed: we are learning that lesson, coinshares head of strategy. coming up, generative ai is blowing up, as people use computers to generate love him letters. we test if it can rate for tv. -- if it can rate for tv. this is bloomberg. ♪
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caroline: this is chat gpt. it has been a new introduction to the technology show. welcome to tech talk, where we explore the latest and greatest in technology. it is helping people write poetry, solve a difficult math problem.
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it can reject inappropriate questions. just remember when microsoft ai was canceled after humans managed to teach it how to make racist comments. it is not perfect. it is an early demo of what is possible. he set it up with elon musk and other wealthy backers. elon musk has exited the board. interesting to remember that elon musk was part of that founding team. they have been taking to twitter today to talk about how chat gbt launched on wednesday and it has now crossed one million users. everybody is using it. ed: it is the range of things they use it for. you did an amazing job of explaining the early stages. i see on the bloomberg terminal
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and twitter feed asking if it will replace humans. i am thinking, will some of my favorite music artists be replaced? a song, or poetry you mentioned in your piece. caroline: they have gotten it to write many good tracks. talking about the notes used in the first riff. this does talk about the power and how this will be related -- regulated. ed: i am worried. caroline: that does it for this edition of bloomberg technology. tuesday, we have the kracken ceo. this is bloomberg. ♪
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