>> which we're right in the middle right now. thanks, larry. we're heading to the close. we're heading back to the lows of the session. on the opening down 150. right now going out down more than 13 2 and still going lower. stay tuned. hank greenberg coming up. also, "shark tank's" kevin o'leary as well on the second hour of "closing bell." i'll see you tomorrow. and it is 4:00 on wall street. do you know where your money is? welcome back to the "closing bell." i'm maria bartiromo on the floor of the new york stock exchange. will this market deteriorate going into the close? investors getting jittery about the government shutdown debate. in the morning we had been down about 150. we came off those lows only to rally and then decline once again going into the close. down 136 on the dow, 14,936 is where the dow settles tonight. the nasdaq gives up 37 points.

technology hard hit today. one of the leadership groups on the downside. 3770 on the nasdaq. s&p 500 down 14 points, almost 1% lower, at 1676. the dow and the s&p extending the week's losses. bob pisani, it got bad at the end. what happened from your standpoint? >> the volume picked up a little bit. we talked about how complacent the markets have been. it was interesting to see this drift lower here at the close. particularly with the vix moving well up over 19. let's take a look at the s&p. 1674 was the low right after the market opened. we went up maybe 1684 in the middle of the day. and pretty steady. and then just in the last 25 minutes or so, drifted lower. we're only two points above the lows for the day. that's pretty good on an intraday basis. take a look at economic sensitive. cyclicals were generally weaker. footbal financials were a notable weakness, as well as financial

stocks. i asked, why is abercrombie down, macy's, gap down. i didn't hear anything in particular will what retail stocks have been doing but i had heard in the last couple weeks general mall traffic is down. we talked about a shorter holiday season. we talked about the fact there will be more promotions. a lot of traders are worried about jcpenney, believing they'll be extremely promotional, requiring countermeasures from some retailers. we won't get earnings from retailers but the banks. we'll get them on friday, jpmorgan and wells fargo. the vix, getting close to 20. that's the level i start paying attention to the vix, 19.26 and it's gone up dramatically in the last 20 minutes. back to you. >> for more we to want bring in anastasia, christopher wulff, bruce mccain and bernie williams

from usaa. thanks for joining us. we had a tough end of day here given the fact that it seems to be rising rhetoric on this debt deal here. what are you advising clients to do here? >> markets are struggling for direction because there's neither compelling reason to buy or compelling reason to sell. we have to look past this moment. we know at least three things. there's not going to be a shutdown that continues in perpetuity. there's not going to be a debt ceiling in breach and default on the debt. that's not just in the realm of possibility. that's unthinkable. last but not least, if we put that aside and look at consumer net worth statement, if we look at initial jobless claims, the unemployment data, i think going into the holiday season consumers looking back on this year should be pretty happy. >> so, you're basically saying, stay invested, don't get thrown off by uncertainties, is your

message? >> take advantage of these opportunities is what we're advising clients. >> chris, what would you tell your clients to do in the face of what could be the next two weeks of volatility? >> we're telling them to get prepared. this looks like an opportunity. political uncertainty is a consensus view, likely to head higher. earnings are coming in higher than expected but we'll see cyclical upturns going into the end of this year and into next year. that causes us to do two things. one is ensure we have some powder sdri in cash, looking for opportunities to put in equities on a pullback. two, within the equity markets move away from the defensive positioning we've seen over the last couple of years. the big dividends, utilities, telecomes look a little overbought here. i think that defensive posture in the markets may reward somebody in a short downturn. for us it's an opportunity to reposition toward that cyclical growth. >> you wanted to raise cash going into the next two weeks so you're better prepared if, in

fact, we were to see a big selloff? >> i think for clients that start out having ridden equity bull market over the last couple of years, they're in a position thinking about hedging, managing risk portfolios. that's a possibility. we do provide that advice for clients that have started that way. for clients that have already have two much cash, too much fixed income, it's wait and be patient. >> feels like the worry ratcheted up at the end of the day. bernie, what did you see here? >> i think the market is reflecting the angst over the debt ceiling showdown. we're fairly positive on the economy. we would emphasize as investors put fresh equity money in they look at emerging markets. we think they're in much better shape than the u.s. or europe. >> so, you like emerging markets here given the -- it's been consistent outflows from emerging markets for a long time now. do you think that's bottomed out? >> yeah, they have started to outperform here of late. we do think from a fiscal and

monetary perspective they're in much better shape. higher earnings growth and higher gdp growth. more importantly, they're much cheaper relative to the u.s. and europe. >> i guess, bruce, do you agree with that? the emerging markets have been a tough place to invest but perhaps we're looking at bottoming out. what is your take there? >> not only are we bottoming out in terms of stock prices but fundamentals have definitely been improving overseas. as you start to see questions about what will happen here, it's a good opportunity to reallocate money overseas. not only to the emerging markets but also to the developed markets that are improving. >> yes. >> i think the other thing to keep in mind, too, is when things become uncertain, bond prices tend to go up. it's an opportunity for those who are still overweighted bonds to take money out of that and perhaps redeploy toward equities if those fall. >> so, basically comparing the u.s. to emerging markets, what's a better opportunity, then? >> probably would favor the

emerging markets, both in terms of the potential for economic pick up and somewhat better valuations. >> really interesting. because, of course, they're not seeing the kind of dysfunction that we are here. would you also put some money -- raise cash just in in case we were to see a selloff? i know you're bullish on this market. >> most of our clients pay capital gains taxes. i doubt you see enough of a selloff to give up good position simply to redeploy in three or four weeks. >> that's a great point. certainly as we come to year end, people are thinking more about that. what were you saying, anastasia? >> you should race cash. that's an opportunity. i think the more important opportunity is to consistently start adding to some of the assets that i think are pretty well positioned. and emerging markets is one of those assets, at least in the very short term. not necessarily for my medium term perspective but long short term it's turning a little bit. outflows are turning into inflows.

valuations are cheap. activity in china is picking up. and this fed taper may be a prolonged one. >> bernie williams, in terms of sectors, what's your favorite sector? >> we like the tech, sector. it's relatively cheap. you have to be careful about stock selection but the tech sector is very explosioned to a global cyclical upturn so we think that sector should do well in the next four, five months. >> appreciate your time. we'll be watching this market, which ended down in the triple digits tonight. thank you. could the federal reserve actually be forced to increase the stimulus due to that dysfunction in d.c.? that's what some are saying now. we'll take a look at that after the break. former aig head hank greenberg says the government is trying to destroy jamie dimon, just like they tried to destroy him. he makes the case in an exclusive interview next. and i'll ask "shark tank's" kevin o'leary about negotiating.

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welcome back. red arrows on wall street today to start the week. let's get to dominic chu watching the movers and shakers. >> the s&p 500 finished the day

lower. it's been lower in ten of the last 13 trading sessions. today very much to the downside. we told you earlier telecommunication stocks were the upside standout. as the market settles on its close, it looks like consumer discretionary and material stocks were the worst performers in the s&p 500. medical systems maker intuitive surgical topped all stock on the index with a near 5 % gain after analysts at william blair mentioned the stock positively. defense stocks posted gains in today's trade. after the defense department decided to lift a furlough on most civilian employees. companies like lockheed martin decided to reduce the size of its furloughed program. united technologies canceled its planned furlough slated to begin today. other defense stocks like northrop grumman, raytheon also were up. toll brothers went from a neutral to buy rating but will finish in red, with an analyst

saying housing spread recovering it's not crucial to focus on the high end perform toll brothers taking it on the chin. >> markets are down, day seven of the government shutdown. and at the same time, both sides are digging in on the debt ceiling. a possible national default are a little more than a week away. most are saying the fed will not taper any time soon. let's take it a step sooner. could this make ben bernanke increase the stimulus on the table? joining us to talk about that, matthew slaughter, now professor of economics and associate dean at dartmouth tuck's school of business. lindsey, chief economist at stern ag and our own steve liesman. steve, forget tapering. could the fed do more stimulus if this mess gets worse in d.c.? what's your take? >> it certainly could, maria. my guess is they would not want to go either way here. that's why a lot of folks i'm talking to think the fed would really put off any tapering

until some time in early 2014. that's significant in that it would be doubtful the fed would then finish quantitative easing in the summer. we're talking about extending it in a sense that is doing more, maria, if it were to not reduce it until much later. >> you don't think they're actually going to do more then. that's not even on the table for you. matt, what do you think? you think the stimulus going higher is unlikely. what would it take for the fed to buy even more bonds? are you not worried about the economic impact of this stalemate? >> as chairman bernanke has been saying, it will be data-dependent. i think steve's insight is right, that right now the fed is unlikely to continue with its current program. the government shutdown is dragging the economy. it's taking money out of the pockets of a lot of federal government workers, making businesses less excited about investment and hiring. a big open question mark is what happens with the debt ceiling

resolution. if we have a bad resolution and treasury default, that changes everything dramatically as the financial crisis might resume in a very bad way. >> what would you expect the ramifications to be on the economy? actual gdp from what's happening in washington. >> right now it's slowing gdp growth relative to what it would be otherwise. the labor market was healing. not as quickly as we would have liked and not completely. so the shutdown, every day it goes forward, takes a little more out of the economy, both in terms of confidence and people's actual incomes. i think the bigger question in the near term then becomes the debt ceiling. that has the potential to be catastrophic for the economy. >> what about that, lindsey, what data is the fed watching beyond just the jobs numbers? how closely do you think they're watching this fight in terms of the debt ceiling? >> well, it's very clear that the fed has made labor data the data to watch. they're watching that in the context of the general economy and also the improvement, if any, that's caused in the labor data. so, really the fed has been very

careful watching the improvement and the unemployment rate to point out these inorganic measures, meaning conditions in the labor market are so uneven at best right now, that millions of americans are dropping outs of the labor market. just to point out -- >> lindsey r you watching that labor data, how is it working out for you? >> it's not looking good right now. >> there's nothing to go by. >> we still have jobless claims and the adp estimate, so they can give us a general sense where we would have been had we gotten the most recent report. it suggests it's more of the same. the fed is data-dependent but that doesn't just mean to the upside. if we see a considerable misstep to the economy, there's no question that the fed would ramp up monthly bond purchases but it would have to be a considerable -- >> steve, your point is because the government shut down, we're not getting any data. she's looking at adp and the jobless claims. what was your point? >> i think it's a big, big deal that we're not getting this data.

it's very related to fed policy. the fed told us it's not moving until it has confidence for the recovery. in the absence of data, the federal reserve cannot have that confidence. maria, we're just a few days from when the treasury would gather the october report. so, not only september, which i learned today that they'll need three days to put that out. three worksing days for the september report. but we won't get the october report, too, potentially if this goes on any further. so, if they're flying an airplane without any radar or even the front window would be basically covered up. >> well, listen, without the data, you don't have any idea of what's going on but you have to believe things are worsening because the government is shut down, people are nervous and you have to believe that this is going to taint their behavior. >> it's probably a good bet. >> matt, what's your take on that, is that dictating people's behavior and do you think the

economy looks worse off in a month as a result of all this? >> it is. some of the private surveys of consumer confidence, there's a concern that will show a large drop in consumer confidence and people won't be buying as much. steve's exactly right. the monthly jobs report we all focus on tends to be in the field in the second week of each month. in addition there's really important bls data, one importantly called the jolt survey. if that doesn't get done, not only is chairman bernanke and his colleagues at the fed missing last month, they're missing a number of other important indicators for this month as well, even if the shutdown resolves in two weeks. that will be too late for the data they need. >> final word, lindsey. >> we have to remember one data point does not make a trend. if you look at what we've seen from the first quarter, it's clear labor market data was showing a loss of momentum. we were at 200,000 at the start of the year. we're barely boef 150,000 now. >> making the point even further things are worsening. thanks, everybody. good conversation, unfortunate conversation. we keep watching.

some are calling it glitchgate, all those problems with the new website to sign people up for the health care exchanges. coming up, i'll talk about how these hiccups may be weakening the government's hand. deja vu all over again. hank greenberg calling the government out for trying to destroy jpmorgan chase's jamie dimon now, the same way, he says, they targeted him. greenberg states the case. stay with us. ♪ ♪

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welcome back. technical glitches, a big blemish for the new health care law. long wait times, error messages being ironed out. bert bert bertha coombs has been following it. >> obama officials say we can fix this. they did cut wait times in half. they'll take the system down tonight to get at underlying problems. that will prevent some from being able to open accounts, access plan information. obama officials admit it was not designed to handle the volume of interest it has seen this past week. after taking some parts of the exchange down over the weekend, they'll do it again tonight, specifically to add more server capacity, move some parts of the system to more powerful dedicated hardware and streamline the underlying software to be able to handle the big volumes they're seeing. and they also encourage people to access the enrollment process

via the call center. >> so folks who call that today, who don't want to wait in the queue or healthcare.gov today, can you go in the enrollment. >> it's a complicated thing to do over the phone. cgi is a lead contractor in the federal exchange, a contract worth $94 million over two years. they have declined to talk about the glitches, maria, but some i.t. experts aren't sure piecemeal overnight fixes are going to solve this. they anticipate this system may have to come down for a more prolonged period to get at all the bugs. >> something has gone mainstream when "saturday night live" pokes fun at it. >> loser, obama health care website who had technical problems all week because of too

much web traffic. you can't campaign that millions don't have health care and then be surprised millions don't have health care. >> the white house's hand, as the government shuts down and the clock winds down to debt ceiling deadline. kelly ann conway from the polling company women trend and former senior adviser on newt gingrich's campaign. >> i don't think they do, maria. this affects millions of people trying to find out about the exchanges, but the truth of the matter is, these are people who don't have health care today, who will get health care over the next couple of months through the exchanges. doesn't affect most people in their health care and doesn't even begin to compare with the issue of the shutdown and the debt limit which affects all 310 million americans in the country in a very serious way.

>> kelly ann, how do you see it? >> i see it in the complete opposite lens. obviously it weakens the president's hand. he won't sit down with house republicans let alone negotiation about everything. this shows americans, all americans, that the same administration that's telling us we have to buy a product from the government or pay a penalty, can't even get the website up and running. this is supposed to be the master dick tal technology, the new kind of messiah running for president. they can do it for a campaign but not for americans who want health care. i'm glad to hear jose finally admit, as many democrats will not, that very few people will relatively be helped by obama care anyway. he's saying it's not going to matter. senator from huelskamp said one single person from kansas couldn't access the website from day one. >> that's not what i said.

i said it will help millions to get health insurance for the very first time. for those who have insurance through their employer or medicare, they're not -- >> we're having a debate about obama care. we're having a debate about the ramifications of what's hang in the early stages and whether or not it weakens the president. this is at the end of the day about leadership. the president's failure to lead, bring both sides together, and boehner's failure here as well for not being able to lead and control the extremists bent on repealing the affordable care act. this is this boehner's fault? >> no. i will you would not. they put together four proposals. they went to the white house. you think if someone would invite you to their house you would be treated like a guest and have conversation, let alone negotiation. the most weaver heard from the president in all of this is two big things. one, i'll negotiate on anything but i won't negotiate on the things we need to negotiate on. two, let's change the name of the washington redskins.

this man has time to talk about the name of a football team but not have a serious conversation? i think it's costing the president. look at poll numbers. gallup has him majority disapproval now. >> maria, i think speaker boehner shares some of the blame but the real blame lies with the 34 extremists pushing this issue instead of letting us talk about the deficit and debt limit and coming to an agreement. people can see the outlines of that agreement. they're much more focused on putting a stake through the heart of obama care. and it's not what we should be focused on right now. >> is it possible to detach c.r., the continuing resolution, and the debt ceiling? can we detach it? >> not really. >> well, i -- >> not really. >> i think so. >> everyone talks about a clean c.r. but if you're one of the hundreds of republicans who voted against obama care in march of 2010 you cannot in good conscience vote to fund it. how can you say you disagree with it in principle but here's the money to fund it?

if obama wants to fund a pet project in an earmark called obama care, he should have have done that. he's relying on people on the record for 3 1/2 years with all the glitches. >> i don't know if we'll have a clean c.r. but i wager the president will get his way on not repealing obama care and that will fall off the table as we move forward with negotiations. >> thanks to you both. we'll watch the ramifications of had government shutdown and what happens next with the debt ceiling debate. up next, talk about sending a message. hank greenberg sent one via special delivery. former ag ceo wrote an op-ed telling the government to lay off jpmorgan chase's jamie dimon. we'll talk about government grid locks, how to invest and a lot more. "shark tank" investor kevin o'leary, find out what he says the government needs to do to unlock the wheels of government. bny mellon combines investment management & investment servicing,

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welcome back. as you know, jpmorgan has been taking its share of hits at the hand of the government recently. now the giant bank may be ready to fight back. kate kelly with the story. >> reporter: maria, jpmorgan may be looking to settle a broad set

of charges related to mortgage-backed securities but it's prepared to fight back on another case, riltd to alleged manipulation of derivatives in 2012. on september 15th the trading commission issued a so-called wells notice to jpmorgan indicating it planned to charge the bank with manipulating credit markets during its london whale trade last year. cftc alleges jpmorgan may have pushed down prices of related securities in hopes of improving portfolio performance. cnbc learned jpmorgan is denying manipulation, and indicating it plans to fight the charges rather than settle them quickly. one thing that put the bank off, i'm told, were commission's early demand for payments of up to $100 million and admitting wrongdoing. with much of staff away from work due to the shutdown, they have not convened a vote whether

to sue jpmorgan and the situation is still unfolding. the stakes are ratcheting higher for both sides. >> our next guest wrote an op-ed in "the wall street journal" entitled the regulatory attack on jpmorgan feels familiar. hank greenberg, thanks for joining us. >> good to see you. >> why did you write this op-ed? >> well, for several reason. it had to be said, number one. and i think it's wrong to be attacking jpmorgan. after all, the government almost forced bear stearns on them. and he didn't want to do it. jamie didn't to want do, it but he did. now you sue him? doesn't make any sense. >> and they're talking about some of the claims that happened before that acquisition. >> yes, yes. they were -- bear stearns,

before he bought them, so now you're bringing a suit against him? does that sound right? >> it seems like there's this public opinion that's really dominating in terms of what's going on. somebody might push back and say, well, listen, there's a reason they're talking about $11 billion in settlements. there were mistakes. there was actual bad behavior. do you not agree with that? >> i wouldn't call it bad behavior. you know, you run any major company as big as they are, you are going to have something go wrong periodically. mistakes do happen. that's not criminal. look at the earnings of jpmorgan. so, if you look at the issue that happened in london, whatever you call that guy who did it, he made a mistake, or he did or didn't make a mistake, but the $6 billion that it came

to as a percentage of jpmorgan's earnings was invst feticimal. >> i was taken to task on twitter. i would like to mention it's not about the financial strength as much but also about jobs. how many jobs does a firm like jpmorgan create? that's something that sometimes gets lost in it. >> of course it does. >> hundreds of thousands of jobs. >> yeah. think about what happens. they're trying to make jamie admit to wrongdoing. if he admits to wrongdoing, which i hope he never does, the amount of class-action suits that will then be initiated by the trial bar against the firm will be horrendous. i mean, so one thing leads to another. i mean, why are we down on business? we're the ones that create the jobs. >> admitting to wrongdoing. this is something i want to talk about for a moment, and then i

want your take on what julian robertson said about jpmorgan, he's a big holder of the stock, but admitting to wrongdoing. if you're settling and you're paying $11 billion to various agencies or more, some people are talking that that number goes higher than that, you can do that and not admit to wrongdoing. how does that equate? >> it doesn't equate. first of all, the number sounds outrageous to begin with. what's the purpose? what are we trying to accomplish? >> somebody has to take the fall for -- >> for what? >> -- the 2008 crisis, is what people will push back. >> the government ought to look in a mirror. >> in other words, they weren't policing? >> they weren't policing. they initiated many things. they wanted more individuals to own homes, and so they changed the terms. they've lowered the standards. they were encouraging it. so, it's not -- it's not

one-sided. >> so does business have no sort of retaliation? i mean, you know, you actually have taken on government, suing the government. but can -- you don't see that very often, hank. >> you don't see that very often. but, you know, you have to fight for what you believe in. we have a constitution. a constitution has a provision against unlawful taking by the government. if you don't fight back, you deserve what you get. >> earlier today i sat down with tiger management's julian robertson. i asked him about jpmorgan. its one of his holdings. i also asked him about jamie dimon. listen to what he has to say about this. >> what's your take on regulation right now, because i know you're an owner of jpmorgan. the banking stocks have been sort of faced with a new normal. do you worry that the pendulum has swung too far in terms of regulation? is this going to impact jpmorgan and other stocks? it feels like jpmorgan is really in the crosshairs of regulators all the time. >> i think it is. i think jamie dimon is a very

decent man and very good executive. jpmorgan is also a very reasonably priced stock. it's very easy to see how that could do better just because of the earnings improvement i think they're going to have. >> but when you look at it from the populous point of view, they don't care about earnings. this is about integrity. this is about doing the right thing for people. >> but integrity may be the wrong word in there. they didn't deliberately do things wrong. they didn't deliberately misrepresent the things at bear stearns. that was done before they bought the company. mistakes will be made at any major, major company. that doesn't mean that you should be prosecuted for it or admit to wrongdoing. you make mistakes. i mean, they -- these things happen and you fix them and you go on. you create more jobs by getting

bigger. i mean, that's what it -- that's what the country is all about. >> what about this charge that they were hiring people in china who were the sons and daughters of powerful people to get jobs done. >> is that wrong? why would you not hire people who are smart, have good educations and come from a good family? is that bad? >> and this is one of the things that we're looking at settling. now, you said admitting wrongdoing would be the wrong move. what's the significance? i mean, how significant can the class-action lawsuits and the follow-on, the pile-on, be after, if, in fact, they are forced to admit wrongdoing? >> if they admit to wrongdoing, class-action suit lawyers will be all over them. it will be billions of dollars. i mean, you know, that's -- that's a major -- that would be a major issue.

seems to me, we have to go back -- the pendulum has swung too far one direction. we used to have a banking commissioner in new york. and an insurance commissioner in new york. if there was something that went awry in a company, insurance or banking, you'd meet with the insurance or the banking commissioner and fix whatever it was that had to be fixed. you might be fined if it was something that you should be fined over. but every mistake doesn't lead to a fine. i mean, you don't -- you know, we have this now, this feeling that government is overlooking to find mistake and then push you. for what? for building a great company? >> do you think they're targeting jpmorgan and jamie dimon? do you just think regulators want him out? >> i don't know if they want him out, but they're certainly punishing him. the question would be, hopefully will the board stick by him? i hope they do. >> how do we bridge the divide here? there is a real divide.

it's become divisive. the country -- one group says, look, business is bad and the other group is trying to make the point that business creates jobs. how do you bring people together? >> it takes leadership. we're back to that again. it's leadership. even now with the shutdown in government -- >> how does that play out, by the way? >> well, you know, the founding fathers were very smart. created three divisions, branches of government. we have an executive branch, legislative branch and judiciary. you have to have a president who's willing to negotiate. you can't just say, i'm a dictator. i'm going to have it my way or no way. >> is there any way you think the u.s. defaults? >> i don't think so. >> we'll leave it there. hank, good to have you on the program. thank you very much. hank greenberg, chairman and ceo at cv star. from the depths of dysfunction, who will rise to get the country

moving again? the answer may be on prime time television. kevin o'leary, co-star of "shark tank" will join us on insight on how to get d.c. deals moving again. we'll be right back on "closing bell." we believe outshining the competition tomorrow requires challenging your business inside and out today. at cognizant, we help forward-looking companies run better and run different - to give your customers every reason to keep looking for you. so if you're ready to see opportunities and see them through, we say: let's get to work. because the future belongs to those who challenge the present.

acso 45 states and then district of columbia have voluntarily decided to raise the bar with consistent educational standards. now, students in those states will have a better chance to succeed in college and careers and to compete in the global economy. which means a better future for our students and our nation. join exxonmobil in supporting the common core state standards. let's solve this. welcome back. maybe washington could get through the impasse if our next guest were sitting at the table between the president and john boehner. you know him as one of the investors on abc's weekly hit

show "shark tank," it will be seen here on cnbc. i'm glad to have kevin o'leary. the author of a new book "the cold hard truth of men, women and money" and you brought to bottles of wine because you're a vitner. >> these are very good and from the nipple of aphrodite. >> we'll talk about that in a second. you're a tough negotiator on the show and in your day to day life, running your investment fund. tell me about your take first on what's going on in washington. how do you think the two sides should come together? >> i think everybody's saying the same thing. it's looking very dysfunctional. i remember the days of reagan and tip o'neill where you had raging debates between these two -- these two parties. they couldn't agree on anything. but they always were able to, as two irishmen do, go in the backroom, dough whatever with a bottle of whiskey, and come back with a deal. in this presidency, although i

give a lot of accolades to obama for building the american brand back from the abyss, he's failed to find a tip o'neill. he doesn't have a counterpart he can go in the back room and negotiate that really represents the party. he's not negotiating. we're not doing anything functionally. i think the american people are getting tired of it. >> for sure. but he says he won't discuss making changes to obama care. are you saying that if he wants changes on the republican side, he needs to also make a change on obama care? >> think about obama care. we all understand the 30,000-foot vision of this and it has merits but to say you shouldn't tweak it at all is crazy. it hasn't been implemented yet and there's problems it with it. i think republicans can bring it to the table, tweaking it, making it easier to implement for business. why not negotiate? i don't get it. somehow over the last 36 months we've been able to vilify business leaders, vilify the process of capitalism, tell young kids in school that making

money is un-american. that's all crazy. that's not what made this country great. i'm pretty upset as an investor where and we're at right now. >> you speak to a lot of companies and see businesses investing in a lot of companies. how would you characterize the business environment right now when it comes to hiring, comes to expanding, adding jobs? >> i think there's a lot of concern that washington is not in sync with washington. if you think about the pendulum, how far it's swung to the left, when we actually call business leaders that build the infrastructure of our country fat cats, that doesn't sit well with me. i can speak for many, many entrepreneurs that say, what make this is country great is the private sector creating private sector jobs, funning the government that provides us all the wonderful things we have. we don't vilify it. we solve for it and we try and endorse it and help more people become entrepreneurs in this country. we have buried them in regulation, scared the pants off them with all the volatility in

the market and now we have dysfunctional government? that's not good. i make the assumption, and i hope i'm wrong, one-third of what government spends is wasted. and i think people intuitively feel it's not market-tested investing, solicitations by politicians for their own interests. it's all unhealthy. we're at a place now, we have to fix it all. >> how do you fix it? >> first thing su overhaul the tax act. it's a mess. >> the tax code is complicated. we've been talking about this for a lot of years. how come we haven't done it yet? >> we have new agenda items. obama care is something clearly the democrats wanted done during their tenure in this last session. we didn't care about taxation. yet if you want to create more jobs in this country, the number one thing to do would not have been to focus on health care. it would have been to focus on job creation, which means lower taxation, simplifying the tax code and making the path easier for entrepreneurs. i meet them every day.

they want to be successful. the government seems to be in their way, not on the sidelines cheering them on anymore. >> obviously government doesn't see it that way. >> really? >> so, what is it going to take for government to actually understand what you're saying and agree with that? >> here's what we need. less government everywhere. both federally and right down to the state level. that's what we need. which equates to lower taxation, lower regulations. remember, we're competing globally now. when we set up a business in california or texas and they want to sell their goods or services to everywhere, not just to the u.s., we have to make it a level playing field so the company does the say thing in india, which has much less barriers. if you want to build fracing technology, you do it in india. >> or if you want to build solar panels, you go to china. >> that's crazy. we can dough it here. but we made it so difficult, we burdened -- we're making ourselves less competitive. >> this is what hank greenberg

was just saying, by the way, from cv star. as an investor you only buy companies that pay dividends. what's behind that strategy? >> very simple. what i learned, just looking at the numbers, and i try to be pragmatic about this. my mother taught me this as a kid. the point is you would have done better just buying the companies that paid out cash. the ones that did have a different discipline. that's how i invest now. i want the ski to think about me saying i have got to pay my dividend. >> that's a good strategy.

>> there are so bh books written about becoming rich. this book is about how to survive. you take on debt as a opportunity. maybe you buy a home when you get married. you have to turn yourself into someone who is collecting interest. i've just looked ate t and said don't do this. >> men and women have different approaches? >> women are better investors. >> how so? >> they seem to have a more disciplined approach. they say look, my mandate is x.

that's how they invest. they make more money. >> how about that ladies? we look forward to the program airing on cnbc. we will get you set up on tomorrow's opening bell. stick around. (announcer) scottrade knows our clients trade and invest their own way. with scottrade's smart text, i can quickly understand my charts, and spend more time trading. their quick trade bar lets my account follow me online so i can react in real-time. plus, my local scottrade office is there to help. because they know i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. i'm with scottrade. (announcer) ranked highest in investor satisfaction with self-directed services by j.d. power and associates.

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>> welcome back. final stretch. our next guest will tell us what we should be watching tomorrow. what do you want to be prepared for for tomorrow? >> you have got to watch what emerging markets will do overnight. they will set the tone. then you have european manufacturing data. the u.s. government may be shut down but that does not mean there is no data coming out. you will be in pretty good shape. >> so you want to put money to work?

>> absolutely. that's one of our favorite stocks. >> ron you're up. what do you want to be prepared for? >> we're looking at the u.s. treasury market. default and downgrade with the u.s. strezry. you know, high yield spreads could riden. >> all right. we'll leave it there. thank you very much. we will be watching all of that. stay with us, everybody. customer erin swenson ordered shoes from us online

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that will do it for closing bell tonight. thanks so much for joining us. fast money begins right now. see you tomorrow. >> live in new york city's time square, here is our line up. our politics may look like a hot mess but that doesn't meep you should be selling american stocks or the dollar. warning season. third quarter earnings kick off this week. and shopping for a street fight. is macy's still the teflon retailer?