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tv   The Exchange  CNBC  August 11, 2022 1:00pm-2:00pm EDT

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business >> degas >> pinnacle west, from the expansion of the electrical grid and also has a 4.5 dividend yield. >> josh, make it quick >> ita >> weiss >> volkswagen. sticking with that >> that does it for "halftime. "the exchange" begins right now. thank you very much, frank hi, everybody. i'm kelly evans. here is what's ahead this hour another lighter than expected inflation reading, but is it enough for the fed to change course "the wall street journal" hinting maybe not and which fed course will keep the bulls in charge the nasdaq 20% off the lows now. we will debate we have more on the rise and the risks of single stock leveraged etfs former nasdaq ceo is here with his take and we have the key things to watch and how to position on all three of those stocks.
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that's today's earnings exchange first, we begin with the markets and dom chu has our numbers. >> the numbers are rally mode, kelly, but modest compared to what happened yesterday. the inflation data a big catalyst for what happened with the rally. today's inflation data still impressive but not driving things as much the dow industrials up about 200 points, respectable. the highs of the session up 342 points at the lows still up 125 points gives you an idea of the trading range so far so tilt it a little bit more to that kind of middle part of that range so 33,503 for the dow. up half of a percent the laggard is the nasdaq composite up 22 points, 12,878 we saw a lot of big movement in the stocks that matter the most to market cap weighted indices like the composite and like the s&p 500. anywhere from 2% to 6% gains for the likes of apple, microsoft, amazon, tesla, just to name a
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few. today you are seeing more of that kind of stability or even pullback apple is just up fractionally. fractional losses for microsoft, amazon, tesla down by 1% and a quarter percent gain by meta platforms. more of a wait and see even despite the inflation data we saw this morning the stock you want to focus on today, the talk of the town has to be disney, the single biggest point contributor to what's happening with the gain in the dow right now. 200 points to the upside roughly 40 to 50 of those points at any given moment are tied just to disney stock after the big earnings report that beat profit expectations, beat revenue expectations, showed growth in the streaming business and the ad supported tier coming up disney media side of things i will point out, kelly, july 14th was the 52-week low for the stock. it is now up 32% since that low. again, i'm showing you in context because even with that we've still shaved a third of the value off the company in the
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market cap but still disney a near term rally. we'll see if it continues. >> a huge, huge story of the day. dom, thank you very much now to the question on everybody's mind, are the new inflation numbers enough for the fed to pivot away from major rate hikes this year steve liesman with some answers. steve? >> reporter: good afternoon, kelly. we haven't had direct comments from fed folks since the ppi number this morning. officials were not nearly as enthusiastic about that better than expected consumer price report as the markets were yeah, they were seeing the inflation rate declining but didn't suggest it would hold them back from hiking. in fact, quite the opposite. neal kashkari said this doesn't change my rate path at all, up to 4.4% next year. chicago fed president evans was nonplussed he backed a 3.75 to 4% rate and he's one of the defense. both bank presidents leaning
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against the market pricing for rate cuts next year. they're sort of in line on that peak rate. kashkari said it was more likely to cut and hold. one positivefactor in the ppi report wholesale inflation up the pipeline is falling faster crude or unrefined products were down 3%, goods for final demand closer to the consumer on the pipeline up 0.2% the cpi and ppi could begin the counting for the fed towards the test of clear and convincing evidence if inflation is falling. it's a conclusion markets look to have made fed officials almost certainly have not. >> what does it mean for 50 versus 75 next time and 25 from the meetings there on out? i don't know if we're pricing in
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possible cuts early next year? >> reporter: we are. if the guys in the back would bring that chart back up you'll see that it still comes down not a lot of disagreement through the end of 2022 getting to that 3.5, 3.6% rate that's not where the disagreement rate is it's the cuts at the end the fed is really leaning against, down to 3.15. kashkari, evans saying more likely to hike and hold than to cut. they don't want to -- we're not going to go up just to start to come down. the possibility you will remember your history, '94-'94 the fed hiked and tweaked the rates on the back end. this is where the market is either pricing in the recession or very strong contraction of
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growth the fed won't acknowledge to this point. >> was the tweak in the very near term but later on like in '97-'98? >> reporter: later on. john williams in an interview not too long ago, said that is a possibility. he noted that analogy. it's possible to get to a place and then maybe wants to lower things 2018 and 2019 they did rate hikes and undid them it's not without precedent the fed doesn't want to let on next year it might do something that would ease financial conditions unless those conditions ease now which is the opposite of what it wants. >> steve, thank you very much. we appreciate it the 30-year bond auction looks like it didn't go as well as yesterday's ten year let's bring in rick santelli with those results rick >> reporter: a very strange auction, kelly
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the grade i gave it was a "c" as in charlie the yield at the dutch auction 3.106. high yield prior to the results was 3.10 it tailed badly. some of the metrics were pretty good indirecteds and directs were slightly above average what caught my eye was dealers 10% of the auction if you dismiss the most recent auction where we had right around the same amount, 10%, the second best going back at least 20 years which means that second best the dealers took a little and investors a lot. their balance sheet isn't shrinking, investors seem ready
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to step up they weren't very aggressive today, kelly >> rick, thank you very much our rick santelli. remember that discussion we were having yesterday about the productivity crash both steve liesman saying they're hopeful it's a statistical quirk. we could even see a golden era for productivity ahead let's welcome in barry knapp at iron side's macroeconomics i don't want to say this is whether people get to keep working from home. a lot of people are following this with great interest >> right productivity was picking up in the service sector one of the best is starbucks who had really seen their store sales in 2015 and decided, well, if we invest a bunch of money we
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can get customers to buy the coffee and skip the line and queueing process and got a third of their customers to do that. we had this acceleration in the way goods are accelerated. the problem with the productivity statistics is the same problem with the way we calculate gdp. a residual between the total output and the hours worked. gdp is a mess. income is what matters, the household and corporate sector drives investment that boosts productivity over time but gross domestic income was positive in the first quarter. productivity estimated using the income method rather than the expenditure method was positive as well, and it looks like income was also positive in the second quarter >> and, by the way, just for
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people following along with this, there's been this recent debate over which -- we used to use gnp and then to gdp. maybe we need to move to gdi, gross domestic income that is painting a healthier picture, even the fed has talked about it so do you think this is just a delay or a measuring effect? is part of this as well the idea wages have gone up so much and that's affecting the way that these variables look right now >> well, corporate income is going up sharply as well we know we had 10% earnings growth for the russell 3,000 even with the drag from dollar effects which wouldn't impact gdi because it's domestic income we know income is increasing strongly we were in recession because we had a surge in imports, the supply chain is cleared, and then a reduction in inventory
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investment coming off the biggest drawdown in inventory relative to gdp since 1949 back in 2020. that's not a recession to me when nominal income growth is still 10% and real is at least 2% >> do you think, barry -- and this, again, gets to the heart of this whole discussion, if income has been surging and wages are up and all of that, is that going to have a lagged delay and show up in more inflation in the months ahead? we're celebrating the drop in cpi and ppi but i wonder if everything you are talking about means companies will be passing this on in terms of more price hikes. >> what you were talking about with steve with respect to the rate cuts in 2023 that i, in fact, in his last survey i have rate hikes penciled in the back half i can't believe i'm agreeing
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with neal ckashkari the policy rate peaked in '18. there were two extenuating circumstances in '18 one the tax cuts and the jobs act because of the limitation of salt the second because of the trade war sent trade in a recession. when we got there most people assumed any further rate hikes would have to be reversed. i don't think that's true. we could go to four and the economy would be fine at that level of a policy rate >> final conclusion for investors, i appreciate this jives more with their own experience of the economy, what does it mean for the market, in terms of what investors should do here? >> right, well, our expectation was we would have a difficult first half and that happened in june you were talking about '94-'95.
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the fed surprised the market with a 75 basis rate hike. we've done that. and so as inflation falls down to 4, the markets will respond favorably. we could reverse the first half losses next year inflation will get stuck around 4 is my expectation. the rate cuts in 2023, i think, are a pretty good fade and from a sector perspective, i think this is the higher inflationary environment we will be in this regime growth will be stronger than most people think. the long duration tech stocks, i like the cyclicals, financials, industrials, materials and energy >> that is fascinating barry, thank you i think we did a lot there in a short period of time thank you so much. >> all right >> barry knapp, iron side's macro. shares of "the new york times" are moving higher
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just rart reported a nearly 7% stake in the company, now the second largest shareholder and nyt shares up more than 10% right now to almost $35 a share. value act has held talks from board composition to deal making and operations we've reached out to "the new york times" and will let you know when we hear more a company with an extremely solid track record even in terms of names like adobe and microsoft setting their sights elsewhere on a smaller cap stock but at the same time that we've looked at elon musk whether or not he is going after twitter, a major investor getting involved with another media platform. the house is set to vote on the inflation reduction act tomorrow and the bill has big implications we'll tell how is most at risk next plus, rivian and poshmark set to report after the bell down at least 50% over the past year but have seen huge bounces can they keep up the momentum? that's ahead in "earnings
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welcome back to "the exchange." u.s. companies are bracing for a big tax hit next year with the inflation reduction act.
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the bill calling for a 15% minimum tax on companies with more than a billion dollars in profits. it could impact everyone from amazon and tesla to moderna, amd, nvidia and even zoom video. joining me now with the breakdown is the chief investment strategist at wolf research it's great to have you back, chris. what's the distinction here between who is likely to be most affected >> yeah, hi, kelly thanks for having me again in terms of who is most affected, they are focused on companies paying low cash taxes perhaps because of stock prices have appreciated a lot over the last three to five years and they have big stock reductions they might have amortization from acquisitions or be doing transfer pricing which makes their global tax rate really low. you see it in some industries and not in others. one last important change they removed last weekend was to
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allow still tax depreciation in calculating your adjusted net income and that ended up allowing a lot of heavy capital businesses like utilities and industrials to not be impacted >> i saw the lobbies were coming out hard against it, be careful of the implications here what do you think the impact will be on the way the companies do business either in the next couple of months or the next couple of years? >> yes, over the very near term there's not a lot you can change in the structure and how you do your businesses. some of the companies might invest more in the u.s. because the bill specifically excludes tax depreciation it allows you to not be caught up by the minimum tax. that's one of the underlying sort of wish things as lawmakers
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drafted this to get more people to invest here because you would be scoped out and that's the reason for the low cash tax rate i think you have to be careful over the near term companies will come out and start to get information on it maybe what they can do with some of the cash flow, you want to be careful because there's new flow risk over the near term. longer term we have to see what the companies will do to mitigate it. >> overall is it a bigger or smaller impact than people feared or expected >> smaller impact. the teeth of the bill came to be less of something when they removed the depreciation provisions again, it will impact a lot of companies. >> we showed that list chris, thanks for joining us to walk through it. >> thanks for having me.
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>> chris senyek with wolfe research surging up 33 yea% off the highs, the stock down 60%. this was a spac in december. we'll hear from the ceo on what's driving this rebound in demand bob greifeld of virtu financial breaks down etfs hitting wall street his thoughts on the health of the market
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welcome back to "the exchange." the second day in a row of a strong session, the dow up 342, 100 points off the high, consistent with the s&p today back up to 4238 and the nasdaq
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adding a third of a percent. the real highlight we're now 20% off the recent lows although still below the november highs here are some of the movers this hour dillard's having its best day since may. there's a good gauge of the middle income consumer meanwhile the stock has taken investors for a ride the past year but is still up about 60% other earnings movers to show you as well. six flags and sonos having their worst days ever. six flags down 21% they saw a 22% drop in attendance cut its full-year forecast those shares down 25%. and despite all the noise around the passage of the chips act about to snap a five-week winning streak, its longest since november we had this week nvidia warning of a slowdown. micron then following suit on tuesday. we're going to have a closer look at the space with the ceo
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of onsemi on "power lunch. looking forward to that. a 1% drop this week for the smh at least as of today still ahead it's all about charging and thrifting in today's earnings exchange. rivian, toast and posh mark with rivian gaining 50% the key things to watch on all three next
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welcome back to "the exchange." it's time for a prerevenue startup version. we have the action, the story and the trade on rivian, toast and poshmark, all three set to report after the bell today. let's start with rivian. the shares of the electric carmaker have nearly doubled but are still nearly 80% off the 179 all-time highs the street will be watching their production ramp closely. phil lebeau has the whole story for us and boris schlossberg has trades phil, what are you watching? >> reporter: it's the production level. that's what everybody will be focused on, kelly. we know what the production was in the first quarter and the
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second quarter as you look at the increase in production cadence the question becomes will they change the production guidance for full year and the expectation is 25,000 vehicles. that's their current guidance. do they raise that you talk with people in the industry i've talked with a number of people who work closely with rivian and they say, look, they're getting their sea legs in terms of production that's what people will be focused on how much can have does about the supply chain that's going to be the primary focus of the earnings when they come after the bell. >> boris, what do you think about the stock? >> as usual with evs, if they have 90,000 orders from amazon, it's really, as phil was saying, a matter of supply can they beat that 25,000 number, production number, can it come out of supply chain hell i would -- the stock has been rallying ahead of the news i would not want to take a
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position until they confirm the number i think there's much more in the stock as speculation will ramp up the product itself has been well reviewed if they can get the production going i think it has a lot of potential to the upside. i would wait until they confirm they can do it >> phil, what else should we be watching for and what are the stakes for rivian? >> reporter: well, what's happening with reservations. the interesting thing happening right now is that with the i.r.a. ev incentives scheduled to go into effect once the president signs the bill, whether that's early next week, whenever it might be, the current ev incentives which rivian buyers qualify for, they go away. so rivian has sent out a note to all of the reservation holders basically saying lock in your deposit and everything today so you can get that incentive though you won't take delivery until well down the road i'll be curious what they say about how many people have said, yeah, i want that $7,500 because
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once the incentives go into place people ordering will not be able to get that incentive because it's too expensive, botch the $80,000 price point. >> i wasn't sure if it was the sourcing requirements. i've seen a number of people saying they are so strict a lot of these existing evs may not qualify. >> reporter: this one is strictly about the price point more than anything else. very few people get a base model. and if you're looking at the base model, it will qualify but that's not how people order vehicles nowadays. the average transaction price will be over $90,000 at least for the foreseeable future. >> fascinating rivian shares up another 4.5%. boris, were you going to say something? >> i was going to say i wonder if it will matter with that kind of a customer. the $90,000 customer will be motivated by the tax rebate but not his primary reason the fact rivian has two models i think are very attractive to the suburban buyer the suv and the
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pickup truck and i think it's really the key thing that's driving the demand here. it's been well reviewed and people want that electric vehicle experience within the format that they really like >> all right there you have it. phil, thank you very much. we'll turn now to shares of toast, the $10 million fintech company up 10% this week but still off the highs. to restaurants, ordering to payroll and with more than 60,000 locations using tech this could be a barometer for investor sentiment on cloud and the consumer dom chu has more of the story. dom? >> toast shares have been toast, i guess is the best way to put it, since their public debut last september as we come close to its one-year anniversary as a public company, what many consumers call an unbelievable product that totally enhances that dining out experience has yet to really captivate the eyes or stomachs of investors toast is still, by the way, not a profitable company estimates right now are for it
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to post a loss of 12 cents a share on revenues of $651 million. it has only had three prior earnings reports on books and it was down big in the first two of them that stock fell 18% back in november of last year. post earnings it fell another 18% in february of this year and then it rose a modest, relatively speaking, 5% in may on the heels of earnings this time around the option market maybe is no surprise, implying a 15% move up or down in that stock after a report shares have managed to rally, by the way, over 50% off the lows that we saw back in may and toast is a stock that is maybe owned by cathy wood. there are some reasons to be bullish. we'll see if anything it says can lead to a more sustained upside for a stock hot out of the gate, fizzled quickly but trying to at least catch some life in the last several months. >> boris, if investors jump in now, will they get burned?
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>> i guess the lesson here is not to self-domain your company toast unless you expect to beat expectations every quarter, right? i think they are a pass in my opinion at this point. they really haven't shown the kind of growth on the margins investors really want. a lot of competition in the space and some of their products are not as competitive as some of the other companies out there especially the payment processing product it's a great idea, the single vertical business where i spent my youth, as far as being able to execute at this point is an open question. also insiders selling stocks, there's a million reasons. it's never a sign of confidence. >> i love using it to pay but, again, a good product is not always a great investment. let's turn to shares of poshmark up 11% this week a similar story. 40% higher in the past three months actually a little bit of a
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recession play people betting consumers might pivot to second hand clothing but still a 60% drop from the highs and it's never once posted stronger than expected guidance, dom. >> you named them all right there. i mean, poshmark is another one of those stocks hot out of the gate and then a longer trend lower since going public back in january of 2021. buying and selling used clothing, fashion accessories, up that 42% since mid-may. maybe some was consumers looking for gently used clothing to fight inflation across the retail spectrum. this is a stock that will not be for the faint of heart when it comes to trading activity. earnings are expected to be a loss of 27 cents per share revenues $87 million the last four quarters the stock has been up 24%. up 3%. but then down 29 and down 17%. so the options market is predicting a move of up or down
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17% this time around as you point out it's been the forward guidance that has been disappointing for investors. revenue forecasts seem to fall short every time that's six of them, by the way this is also, by the way, a stock you can't count out. a lot of people betting against it that could add fuel to the flame, kelly >> which side do you come down on here, boris >> again, dom is right a lot can pop on better than expected news. execution problems are a big problem for them they are basically a site to sell used sweaters and they have to do a better job marketing the other thing people pointed out they try to market to buyers but what you want to do is make it a conducive place to sellers and create more sophisticated tools for sellers, something they've refused to do so far their argument is they can do this through data mining and buying information but if they
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can't attract a really deep amount of buyers, it's going to be hard to see how they go forward. the other big interesting problem here is the irs has ruled anytime you sell more than $600 worth of goods they have to issue a 1099 most sellers are certainly going to come underneath that threshold, but if they do i wonder if that's a big problem not because it's not a big problem as far as paying taxes but paperwork. i wonder how many sellers will balk at that i think there's enough issues on the board to make me want to stand down for the time being. >> boris, thanks for your thoughts today we greatly appreciate it dom, we'll see you soon. coming up a cnbc investigation finds that some crypto influencers get paid thousands to hype risky investments but in some cases the projects they're promoting are merely fraud that story is next on "the exchange."
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welcome back if they score enough followers, social media platforms can become a major money making opportunity for influencers in the crypto space a cnbc investigation finds some online personalities get paid thousands of dollars to endorse crypto projects but in some cases regulators say these influencers are merely promoting fraud and the amateur investors end up paying the price. eamon javers has the story >> reporter: the latest digital currencies, if there were ever a time to start paying attention to the market, it is right now the newest meta verse projects are all being hyped on platforms like youtube >> that could generate passive income every month >> reporter: people dubbed crypto influencers are racking up views by peddling projects promising skyrocketing profits but as amateur investors flock to social platforms for the next big thing -- >> i am officially a partner
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with distx >> reporter: some promotions have left investors financially devastated while some influencers cash in. >> welcome >> reporter: ben armstrong is one of the most watched crypto influencers on youtube you promoted distx calling it your most trusted coin down 99%, valued less than a penny now. do you take any responsibility for the losses suffered by your viewers when they see a recommendation by you, they go out and buy the stock and it craters? >> well, yeah, of course i do. i hate it when we talk about stuff that didn't do well. bitcoin was still kind of 50/50 at that point. >> reporter: with nearly 1.5 million youtube subscribers -- >> i have a lot to say about a lot of stuff >> reporter: more than 800,000 followers on twitterwhich has allowed him toer more than $30,000 for a single youtube endorsement. >> i could have easily made over 100k a month doing that. >> reporter: that has encouraged other crypto influencers to swarm this lucrative market.
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this spring an anonymous block chain sleuth posted a list on twitter naming 44 youtube crypto personalities and their prices for paid promotions. we reached out to the influencers to verify their fees some said these prices were inflated those willing to share their pricing said they made a minimum of $1,000 for each promotional video and unlike armstrong some promoters don't disclose they are getting handsomely paid. >> not disclose something a sure-fire way to get yourself in big trouble. >> reporter: the director of the enforcement division of the texas state securities board says he's seen paid promotions that are not only nondisclosed but push fraudulent ventures >> we're seeing scams. we're seeing frauds. there's a lot more out there >> reporter: he and a team of regulators filed enforcement actions against two meta verse casinos for trying to defraud retail investors by selling unregistered securities. the order says one of the
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influencers was recruiting to advertise their products through his youtube channel. he found messages on a popular chat platform that said another influencer brought in a lot of investors from their videos. >> we uncovered this by a promotion on youtube, an influencer who publishes videos at a very rapid pace, uses hyperbole in the title this is scary. >> reporter: because it's so early you have no idea what's real and not real. >> right >> when there's money to be made, people will do anything to make money >> reporter: the product lead of the digital currency wallet called meta mask says she is wary of these youtube personalities. >> i would urge anyone, even if they consider themselves legitimate, to not form these faux partnerships, paying for influence, paying for replies, paying for followers >> reporter: that's a realization armstrong came to when he stopped producing sponsored content in january
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>> there's been a lot of a burden off me. i don't have to worry about dealing with these people. i can say what i want to say it's a good way to build your business but you have to do it in an honest way >> reporter: he says because he felt guilty for promoting distx he used the money he made to refund viewers who had invested in the project the total crypto market cap down 49% year to date and in that bear market armstrong says he expects the less legitimate crypto influencers will face increased scrutiny and a lot will ghost their subscribers we reached out to the two influencers we showed here who promoted the metaverse about whether they have taken undisclosed. he says he wasn't paid but deleted his promotional video after we started asking questions. the dream green show did not respond to our request for comment, kelly >> i would have to imagine they would be required to disclose
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this in the future, right? >> reporter: if it's a security you are required we don't know who has authority to regulate all of this. as of right now it's sort of up to the individual youtuber to decide what their ethical practices will be and whether they will disclose those to their viewers. i went down to bit boys headquarters in atlanta, and he has a pretty elaborate youtube setup there, a big set, a big operation, a company that produces youtube videos on a whole host of topics in addition to crypto. they're in a former jacuzzi sales floor location just outside of atlanta there's a cottage industry of this and how that's all going to get sorted out is still to be determined >> you've done great work highlighting the shadowy things happening and how it's affecting people thanks for the latest installment. we appreciate it you're eamon javers. >> virtu chairman bob greifeld
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the first single stock etfs in the u.s. launched last month with dozens more potentially on the way. the etfs will give investors a chance to make leverage or inversed bets on performance of individual stocks. while the products are already attracting plenty of volume they are also attracting a lot of scrutiny s.e.c. commissioner carolyn crenshaw warning they may pose an even greater risk to investors than regular leverage and inversed funds let's bring in bob greifeld of virtu financial, the former chairman and ceo of nasdaq and a cnbc contributor, author of "market mover: lessons from a decade of change at the nasdaq." i'm trying to decide in terms of change which side of this change you come down on >> well, kelly, one, thanks for having me today. the first thing i would try to do is put it in context. these types of products have been available through the private wealth channel for many years. every time i talk to a private wealth manager he's pitching a
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product like this. so what's impressive here is you made this type of technology, this product, more accessible, right, to regular retail and professional investor. so that brings up some concern which we'll talk about i also want to put it in context. so we have equities on one sidee of the continuum where you're owning a share of an asset if the options are on the other side where at the end of the day your options expired you'd have nothing. so when you look at these products they are closer to equities and they clearly have the leveraged aspects of option, but to the extent your bet is not right you still have a claim on an underlying asset so when i think about this go ahead, kelly. >> well, i was going to say as key keep going back and forth on this, we spoke about this yesterand had sharp warnings and some said is it possible to have products safer because they don't involve
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margin and it is more obvious what your loss or exposure might be >> yeah. i would tend to agree with that. i think when you have education associated with it i've been around a while you have retail participation in the options marketplace in the united states like no other market on the planet and part of that has been that you have great education over the decades and exchanges and brokers and i remember bill broskin was out there and pushing the education aspect of options and now it's a known quantity so clearly, we have exchanges and we have brokers and are on a position to educate about these new products and the success or failure of them will determine how informed the investors are on the products. certainly if you're just kind of buying this thing willy-nilly, you shouldn't do it. it has a higher risk profile than an e quity than the options and you have to understand where
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it fits in that continuum. >> the bigger concern that has been flagged is this daily fix and the fact that the people, if you're involved in the product for one day that's one thing, but beyond that, good luck trying to figure out what the returns are going to be. are these products meant to be for people who will be in and out of them during one single trading session? >> it's hard for you and i to envision every every investor's need for the product and this product will meet a need you have to understand it to understand the product if you're going to put your hard-earned money to work in this type of product then it should be incumbent upon you and your adviser to educate you about what this product is about, pros and cons, right? to me this product represents some degree of innovation, as i've said. i've seen these products in the last 15 years coming from five or 12 channels and there's nothing new about them and some of the products they worked, others didn't, but you have to
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know what's underlying that and the underlying aspect of that is critical and the brokers and the exchanges are in a position to provide that education and it's certainly not for everybody and even if it's for somebody, it's not for that somebody all the time, but we'll have a niche to play >> my guess is most people will learn the hard way through experience and be that as it may it just seems like an odd message for the sec to be sending. why greenlight something like this while at the same time being so careful and obsessed about crypto it doesn't -- i can understand if it was someone with the philosophy of people should learn the hard way and this is an sec that is much more determined to keep people from unnecessary losses >> i would agree with that and certainly similar actions you can question or you can applaud depending where you are, but i think you also have to take it in context i'm speaking for myself here
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if you have options that expire today and they're worth a bet one way or the other, and this product has more of the underlying equity, then i think it gets harder for the sec to say this is something they can approve because it would come into the whole options complex which has obviously served investors very well for all years. i'll repeat myself again it's the fine print and it's the things we click through on the web, but this is important, and i think the brokers and exchanges can do a good job over a period of time of educating on the pros and cons. there are certainly some pros to it and obviously, you can be victimized if you don't understand the product or if you have the product where you should not >> bob greifeld, a vote of confidence in the process. we appreciate it now with virtu
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welcome back before we go, check out shares of vacasa surging 34% after blowout earnings our seema mody spoke to the ceo and what's behind the earnings >> the ceo matt roberts says the softness in the economy is pushing homeowners to rent out their home. >> it's something that people are interested in earning income to offset cost and we're making incremental availability by people offering more nights for us to rent out >> and that's good news for vacasa it is in the business of managing rental properties from
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fixing toilets to getting your homes booked they say the overall cost of staying at a home is making it more attractive than at a hotel. >> we're less expensive than hotels. >> people can eat in versus dine out. >> so strong bookings in july for vacasa which allows for 40% to 50% of the business the stock is surging today, but still down about 50% this year it's competitors and airbnb and expedia sitting on significant losses despite outperforming the past four to five weeks and hotels, interestingly enough, marriott, hotel, hilton have held up better than the home rental stocks rushed back to big cities and that's where hotels have a bigger footprint than the rentals. >> people want more income and they're giving them more room and nights, so interesting, seema. >> one of the things that could outperform in the environment if
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we see more softening in the economy and people saying we have the second home, let's rerent out and other online, and the challenge is to beef up the inventory. >> maybe these homeowners will help seema, thank you very much for bringing that to us. our seema mody we'll trade the other vacation name that has analysts hiking their earnings outlooks coming up on "power lunch" which starts right now. ♪ ♪ good day, everyone welcome to "power lunch," i'm tyler matheson kelly will be along. companies are raising prices at a rapid pace and once they go up they will take a long time to come down if they ever do, the


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