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tv   Closing Bell  CNBC  December 13, 2022 3:00pm-4:00pm EST

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ten-year, which is a better indication it is a fed meeting day tomorrow and all these rates will be hugely in focus. >> do they have to cut by that much >> i'm looking at the two-year and three-month, a lot of people parking money there. >> it is going to be another busy one dom, thanks. thanks for watching "overtime." >> "closing bell" with sara eisen starts right now. >> thank you stocks are well off the highs. we lost a 700 point rally after the initial pop on cooler inflation data this morning. what does it all mean for tomorrow's big fed decision? this is a make or break hour for your money welcome to "closing bell." i'm sara eisen look at where we stand now, s&p up .6%, well off the highs the nasdaq, still positive, up a percent. so you're seeing the most strength in technology if you break it down by sector, energy is in the lead today, communication services right behind real estate also doing well. what is negative consumer staples at the bottom of the pack and the only sector
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lower at the moment. the dow is barely up it is the high of the day up 707 points we're seeing big moves in the treasury market as well. wanted to point out, yields falling sharply earlier in the session. they had come off of those lows. you're still seeing a big rally in bonds and the u.s. dollar which is down 1% all in reaction to cpi or that falling rate of inflation. coming up on the show, much more today on the wild moves and we're joined by holly newman kroft, who has been bearish on this market. plus, we'll discuss the charges against ftx founder sam b bankman-fried with ira lee sorkin who represented bernie madoff we'll break down today's big swings now what they move for the market mike santoli at the dashboard. what happened to the rally >> we're talking about how the market was getting very tightly coiled ahead of this number and tomorrow's fed meeting we were really spring loaded
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remember yesterday afternoon markets started to drift higher. we added 1% in the last hour or so of trading yesterday. and in anticipation that a cooler than expected inflation number could cost a strong -- we got a 3% pop in the cpi. it ranked right exactly to that level right there, 4100 intraday the high from november 30th, so really this sort of tested level, repeatedly tested downtrend line so far backed off of that. we have the fed meeting tomorrow we wanted multiple months of cooler inflation we're getting it it is still not necessarily decisive in terms of what the economy does now i feel like we're checking off the box for disinflation it is about what does growth mean and how does it interact with what the fed tells us tomorrow holding up above that, the levels that it sort of had to for this month around 3900 look here at the u.s. dollar look at where it takes us back to, the decline today. earlier below 104 for a bit. basically back to the
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springtime we have the s&p back to springtime levels, around may. you have gotten the dollar index back there as well also in the ten-year treasury yield first got above 3% everything is back in for this multimonth inflation/stagflation panic. we're coming out of that what is left the tightening on the economy and what it all means for earnings. >> i feel like the market is still tentative about all the trends, whether the dollar is actually in a down trend we'll get ecb and boe, whether stocks are actually in an uptrend. on the fed, we were talking earlier, what strikes me is the market takes out rate hikes, right, because of the inflation number, that's good news but ultimately sets up a little bit of a showdown between what the fed is going to expect on the dot plot and the rate forecast versus where the market is it is never good when the market and the fed are not on the same page. >> so there is room for a gap
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there. the dot plot, the committee's outlook which gets submitted last friday, so it is kind of baked in there already i wonder if the market will take it with a grain of salt. most likely it will show the terminal rate above 5% for the fed funds rate that's higher than what the market is pricing in it is so close after tomorrow's 15 basis point hike, we'll be pretty much there. so i'm not sure that's still the decisive swing factor for this -- >> the fed follows the market anyway or usually. mike, thank you. mike santoli inflation is coming down on the headline numbers that's good news if you dive deeper, you see where the relief is happening. energy, you see this at the gas pump gasoline prices falling 2% from october to november. transportation costs also declined in november so did used cars and trucks. and airfares, finally, came down a bit. one other source of relief, medical costs, super important, make up 8% of the total number, they're declining as well. it is a good sign we're seeing actual declines here as well, and not just gains that are
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moderating, which was the story. on the flip side, there are spots where inflation remains stubbornly high. food, especially at the grocery store. that's still rising about half a percent. less than last month, but if you go through and look at the categories in the food basket, bread, cookies, muffins, cereal, all the products saw big jumps last month shelter prices, also problematic, they make up a third of the overall inflation rate and still on the rise too rents, big culprit here. but they tend to lag and there are early signs that rent costs are starting to roll over. also we'll watch the other prices like education and recreation which showed strength as well. overall, progress. and if you strip out food and energy from the overall number, that core rate, which the fed really cares about, up .2% in november that was the least since august 2021 for more on the markets and the reaction here, let's bring in holly newman kroft
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you were with us last month as well when inflation surprised on the core side. it takes a lot to impress you. what about today's numbers >> unlike last month when i was here, the market was rallying big. today it is flat it is supporting our view that what we're seeing in this market upticks since the end of october is that this really is another bear market rally. inflation is coming down and that's what we're looking for. but as you just mentioned, we're only seeing one component of inflation come down and that's in the goods sector. we still need to see service inflation come down, we need to see wage inflation come down and that's also what the fed is looking really closely at. we haven't seen that and it is going to take some time for that to play through the system. >> you're pushing back against the view that falling inflation rates give the fed more breathing room when it comes to raising interest rates >> certainly they're going to raise rates tomorrow we think that's baked in, yeah and we think that will continue to raise we need 7%, it is a decline, it is a very high inflation number
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and it is unsustainable. so what we need to see is housing prices start to fall, we're seeing the growth in the increase in those prices slow down, but we want to see housing prices start to fall we want to see wages start to come down and our labor market is incredibly resilient and still so strong. that has not yet played out in the fed's actions. so we need to see that. >> so you're still fading the -- you would tell people to -- >> still fading the rally. >> what about bonds? there has been a shift in bonds, a lot of people say even if we haven't seen inflation come down to where you want to see it or the fed stopped hiking rates to which you want to see, perhaps we have seen the high on treasury yields, what do you think? >> the good news of 2022, the only silver lining in this market is that fixed income has seen a return to normal. and we are reallocating our long-term views on the market.
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what we saw in the last decade in this zero interest rate environment that is not normal and all the preceding years we have seen healthy interest rates and we're back to that so what investors can do today is take advantage of the yields that the bond market is offering you, without taking excessive risk and still let the volatility play through the equity markets. >> so, recommending -- >> short duration, high quality bonds. >> munis still >> munis still the tax equivalent yield is still around 5%, which is a nice healthy return we're in december, what should investors do today take losses. any losses -- any losses you can take the growth companies, growth stocks have been disproportionately punished this year but there are huge embedded gains in those stocks over the last decade. so, offset those gains with some losses, reorient your overall allocation a little bit more
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conservatively, park the money in short duration, high quality bonds, and be patient. we are optimistic that the market will start to turn. perhaps not as quickly as people might have anticipated last month. we think the fed is going to raise rates the next couple of meetings and then pause. i think that pause is going to be a little bit longer than some people hoped and rates are going to stay high until we see the other components of inflation start to come down. >> cuts in 24? >> i'm hoping, we're hoping the second half of 2023 things will start to turn around and be more positive >> so, your outlook for next year is bumpy start -- >> bumpy start -- >> you know when to add risk or get into some of these beaten down stocks? >> we'll look for a few signs. service inflation starts to come down, wage inflation starts to come down, china starts to loosen their restrictions, open up their markets that will have a huge impact on
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the international markets. we're hoping by mid next year we can start to re-enter. if you have no international exposure, go in on the dips. we didn't exit international for our clients, but we are underweight. and we'll be looking to pivot both in terms of domestic equities and international and emerging market equities hopefully the second half of -- >> i was going to ask, international was what, european stocks >> developed international equities as well as emerging market equities. china loosening their zero covid policy restriction, which has been -- seems like forever, doesn't it, as soon as they loosen that, that will have a huge impact on europe. >> the market is sniffing that out. >> international had a huge rally the last month we're starting to see that it will dip. the volatility -- i can't wait to come on and say i think the volatility is done we're not there yet. >> even with everything you're talking about means we're in recession, next year, would you
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still be buying stocks at that point? >> whether we are or are not in a recession it is going to feel like we're in a recession and hopefully the strength of corporate balance sheets, the st strength of consumer balance sheets and the oversupply in the labor markets will help lessen the effects of a recession if in fact we're in one. we don't expect that it will be a deep recession sure, you want to go in at or near the bottom. as i said before, market timing is a -- it is good to go in when it makes you feel a little bit nauseous. >> you've given us some criteria holly, thank you my inflation guest is becoming a tradition. holly newman kroft we have gone negative on the dow, down -- your fault -- kidding, down 21 points. it has been -- we got this big rally up 700 points earlier this morning when the inflation number came in, less than forecast, and we have given up all those gains. we went negative earlier this
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afternoon and just dipping down again now 21 points or so on the dow. s&p 500 also showing more weakness in terms of the sectors. utilities and staples now negative up next, ira lee sorkin, he represented bernie madoff in his fraud case he reacts to the government's case against ftx founder er sam bankman-fried. you're watching "closing bell" on cnbc. ♪ ♪ wow, we're crunching tons of polygons here! what's going on? where's regina? hi, i'm ladonna. i invest in invesco qqq, a fund that gives me access to the nasdaq-100 innovations,
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collapse just a day after he was arrested in the bahamas. kate rooney is in washington with the latest details on this fast moving story. these charges are piling up, kate. >> absolutely. the southern district of new york just holding a press conference in the last hour on today's indictment of sam bankman-fried and some parallel charges brought by the s.e.c. and cftc he's charged with eight counts including wire fraud, money laundering, sdny says this was brazen fraud as they called it started back in 2019, right around ftx was founded fbi assistant director saying while the case involved crypto exchanges at the end of the day it comes down to traditional financial fraud. >> i want to be clear, this case is about fraud fraud is fraud it does not matter the complexity of the investment scheme it does not matter the amount of money involved if you mislead and deceive to take what does not belong to you, we will hold you
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accountable. >> we also heard from the cftc at the press conference that agency accusing bankman-fried of fraud and said the companies he founded ftx and alameda, all the companies they accuse of fraud there. the s.e.c. saying something pretty similar, they say bankman-fried committed a massive years long fraud word of the day, the s.e.c. also warning other crypto exchanges they have to register with the agency they're ready with enforcement action if any of these exchanges choose not to register bankman-fried meanwhile coming out with a statement, his lawyers saying he's reviewing the charges with his legal team and considering all of his legal options. back to you. >> kate rooney, thank you very much. let's bring in someone who can help us break down the legal stakes here at play. ira lee sorkin is a partner at the law firm mintz and gold, best known for representing the late bernie madoff in his fraud case and also at the s.e.c. and
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the u.s. attorney's office in new york so you're a perfect guest to have on with today someone with your background reading through the charges in the indictment what stands out to you the most? >> what stands out to me the most is that many of the charges are conspiracies you can't have a conspiracy with yourself you have a conspiracy at least with two people. and what i suspect is going to happen is there will be what we call a superseding indictment, where there will be other defendants charged who conspired with the main defendant here, and there will be additional charges. but the fact there are numerous conspiracies leads me to believ this investigation is far from being over. >> what about the timing here? does it -- what do you make of the fact he was arrested the night before he was supposed to testify before the house financial services committee >> yeah. i'm not -- that doesn't bother me at all. it can be that the timing was --
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i'm speculating, totally speculating, there was some discussion perhaps that he was secreting money around the world in different countries that he was going to skip to another country that didn't have a strong extradition treaty with the united states, and the government moved in as quickly as possible to prevent that from happening. that's pure speculation, i don't know but it is not the first time the government moved quickly when those -- when that evidence is out there and they're concerned about what the defendant is going to do. >> so you expect more indictments here to come, more co-conspirators here he's now being accused of conspiracy to commit wire fraud, customers and lenders money laundering, violations of campaign finance laws, there are eight criminal charges here. what is he looking at if convicted? >> we won't be around if he gets
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the maximum. let me put it that way you're much younger than i am. it is not likely that defendants get the maximum sentence but the mail fraud, the wire fraud, the conspiracies, the maximum is 20 years. and judges, of course, in sentencing, will factor a lot of things in, none of which we know about at this time but he's facing many, many years in prison. >> the statement that kate rooney read to us that he's exploring his legal options right now, what do you think he and his team are doing and discussing first there is the issue of whether he gets extradited, right? >> yes i don't think that's going to be an issue at all. but what his legal team is thinking about now, and in fact, where does he go from here does he decide to fight the charges, does he decide he wants to cooperate and cut a cooperation deal with the u.s. attorney the s.e.c. and the cftc in this are -- i don't want to diminish
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their role but most of the work done here is done by those two agencies. not the u.s. attorney's office and that's not diminishing the role of the u.s. attorney. in order to look at it from that perspective, what will generally happen is the s.e.c. and the cftc will step back. their actions will be stayed the department of justice does not want the civil cases to go ahead because the department of justice is concerned if the civil cases do proceed ahead, it will impinge negatively on the ability to carry out the criminal case. >> i was wondering about the interplay of all of these regulatory agencies at this point. everybody is on this and whether they ultimately work together that answers that question >> they do work together but now that you got three
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proceedings, the department of justice is going to want to carry the ball here because they do not want their case disclosed in the civil action, when there is far more discovery and far more ability to learn what the government's case is, the criminal case, than there would be if there was only one criminal case. >> we also had this unusual development of hearing from sam bankman-fried over the last few weeks. numerous times he spoke with our colleague at the deal book conference, "good morning america. i know you publicly reprimanded him for that and would tell your client not to do that. it sounds like what his thread is that there was no intentional wrongdoing and he wasn't aware of any co-mingling of the funds from ftx customers to alameda research how difficult is that going to be for him to argue? >> well, the first time i was
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put on this case, i said specifically, shut up. i use those words. because the only people who are listening to what he's saying are the regulators and the prosecutors. if he's out there trying to convince the general public that he did nothing wrong, no one is going to pay attention to him. what is going to count is what he says and what can be used against him in court exculpatory statements, a legal concept, you say something that is false what he's said, if they prove otherwise, that's going to come out in a trial, decides to fight the case, and it is going to be used against him >> so what i was going to ask you is whether you're having any flashbacks to bernie madoff case we're not hearing the word ponzi scheme used, but he's being accused of fraud, misappropriating customer deposits what is similar and different? >> it is all fraud but there is a big difference
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between the two. bernie madoff carried the scheme out according to the government for over 30, 40 years. and the reason he was caught was because his two boys tipped off the government he confessed to his two boys, unfortunately neither of them are with us and the government then acted here, i suspect there are a number of people who when this was not public, tipped off the government, about what has been going on by mr. bankman-fried and that's where the investigation started. they didn't put this case together at least from the standpoint of the s.e.c.'s numerous factual allegations in a month. this is an investigation that has been going on and generally these types of cases start off with somebody who walks into the government, or somebodies walks
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into the government and says i want to tell you about -- so, that is different than madoff. with madoff, the amount of money the government said when he was solely responsible for was somewhere in the neighborhood of $20 billion. most of that, when i say most of that, i'm overstating, he said before he died and soon after he was arrested that investors are going to get back 70 cents to 80 cents on the dollar. and he was right the amount of money clawed back in the bankruptcy, and by the trustee was somewhere in the neighborhood of $15 billion of the $20 billion the government says was defrauded i don't think you'll see that with this guy. i think the money is gone. whether they can gain and claw it back is another issue which is going to take a long, long time to work out >> yeah. especially because it is digital.
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it is not even paper money so, what do we watch next? >> what do you watch next? one thing missing, of course, now is the -- i'm a defense lawyer for many years, is none of the speakers ever said what the magic words presumption of innocence. they come up here, they say we charge, we charge, we charge, he did this, he did this, he did this, the fact of the matter is these are charges. there may be explanations. not for all of the charges, but for some of the charges. what happens next, they're going to proceed to an arraignment, i believe he will be extradited if he doesn't voluntarily appear. bail will be set he made one comment that all he has left is $100,000 that's all and the fact of the matter is, if bail is set in this particular case, and he makes bail, and two reasons that you make bail, one, the judge
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concludes you're not going to flee the jurisdiction, you're not going to run away, or, two, you're a danger to the community, and if he makes one of those findings, he's going to be put in jail and i don't think that's going to happen. he'll have to surrender his passport he's going to be monitored there is no danger he's going to flee as for threat to the community, i don't think you're going to see that at all. it is conceivable he will make bail and then the case will proceed along the lines of every criminal case. discovery, judge, trial date >> one with very public high interest members of congress, folks at home, a lot of people affected by this as well. >> i think the interesting thing is -- last point, i know you got a timetable. the interesting thing here is the political contributions. which congressmen are going to come forward and say, you know, he gave me a donation and i'm going to give the money back
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that was not discussed and i think it will be fascinating to see how much money was given to politicians and whether these politicians are going to step forward and say, you gave me somebody else's money, take the money back >> right i tried to ask maxine waters that question. she said if it is found to be fraudulent, she'll try too -- not that she took money, but a lot of members of the house financial services committee did. that's one place to start. thank you so much for your -- for weighing in on all this, your contributions today good to have you. >> thank you very much good luck. >> thank you let's show you what's happening, dow back into positive territory as we speak. up 57 points well off those highs we're up 700 earlier this morning. we're seeing above average trading volumes. if we close positive, it is the fourth in the last five days goldman sachs adding the most points right now to the dow. moderna the best performer in the s&p 500 following optimistic new data on its skin cancer vaccine. coming up, a top biotech analyst
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on whether the stock has more room to run. it is up 20% today we'll be right back on "closing bell."
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norwegian cruise lines, investors are disembarking from this stock it is down 3%. a stern call downgrading the company to neutral from buy, trimming its price target to 19 from 24, citing valuation concerns the stock rallied more than 30% since october thanks to a wave of improving consumer demand but still the cruises have not recovered as much as some of the other travel stocks. up next, bank of america head of rates strategy ahead of the big fed decision tomorrow. we'll be right back.
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the action in bonds front and center today treasury yields fell sharply after that november inflation report out this morning. the ten-year flipping earlier in the session, but moving off those lows right now the two-year yielding 4.2% as markets are pricing in a higher chance that the fed won't have to hike quite as aggressively.
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joining us now is mark cabana at bank of america securities interpret, mark, if you could, what the bond mark et is tellin you ahead of this inflation report today. >> we think the bond market is signaling the opportunity of a soft landing is widening to some extent for the fed inflation seems to be falling quite rapidly, certainly more than expectations. and that just suggests that the fed may not need to tighten as much, nor might they need to keep rates as high for as long inflation is certainly working in favor of the fed right now and as long as inflation starts to fall, then that means that the fed will be able to keep policy in less restrictive terms than would have otherwise been the case. >> yes but, here's my question, is the market getting too excited and ahead of itself as we have seen in the recent past when fed chair powell will come out tomorrow and talk and say, we're still seeing services inflation, we're seeing wage inflation,
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we're not seeing enough signs that inflation is really coming down i'm just sfpeculating here. it happened before. >> i think powell will reiterate the message there is still more work to be done. and that even though we have seen inflation miss the downside, now two months in a row, inflation is still far too high and we're still running on a headline basis that is over 7% on a core basis at 6%, that's unacceptable for the fed but the data is surprising in the right direction for them and while he will say that there is still more work to be done, he's going to probably sound a little bit more confident that the fed will be able to see inflation fall as i mentioned earlier, the odd of a soft landing are increasing >> do you see rates falling from here continuing to fall into '23? >> yeah, so our rate forecast over the ten-year at the end of the year, 3.25%, what 3.5% now,
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rates moved a lot -- very, very quickly really after the october cpi report and again today after the november report. suggesting that the inflation data is certainly moving in the right direction for the fed. we do think that over the course of 2023 we'll see rates continue to fall and that will be especially true if the fed is able to pause here in the next few months, and then wait and see how the economy and inflation evolve certainly the trend has been that inflation is surprising to the downside, and as long as that remains the case, then the fed has more flexibility to remain patient so, again, we think that risks are skewed to the downside on rates, but a lotof the work ha already been done, based upon our forecasts. >> mark, thank you for joining me. >> thank you for having me >> mark cabana look at where we stand now the nasdaq is holding on to a 1% gain there is the nasdaq. it is a bright spot today.
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thanks in part to moderna, up 20%. also some big gains in the beaten down stocks like match group up 8.25% meta up more than 4.5% alphabet, some of the big tech names. the only sector that is down now is consumer staples. energy at the top of the market. meta, a pair of wall street firms thinks the stock can do a major about face next year we'll share the details next power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools, and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities. while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market.
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now what? here's what: you connect with prudential's rock-solid team serving over 50 million people. with investment, insurance and retirement know-how. who's your rock? visit prudential.com or speak to an advisor today. welcome back wall street firms have been rolling out their top picks for 2023 meta we noticed a popular name on those lists goldman sachs and citigroup
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naming the social media giant a top pick, citing improving engagement trends across speed stories and reels altogether that stock has been especially hit hard down from its highs m having a nice rebound today. when we come back, giving investors the blues today, dragging down the rest of the airlines we'll discuss what the carrier's demand warning means for the industry and moderna rallies and walmart's ceo speaks out on inflation when we takeou si t mkezone y
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we are now in the closing bell market zone cnbc's senior market commentator mark santoli here to break down the crucial moments of the trading day. frank holland here on walmart and michael ye on moderna. we are accelerating, a leg higher, up 124 on the dow. started the hour, went negative at one point still not the kind of gains we were expecting when we saw the reaction to the inflation report this morning it is real estate at the top of the market with energy the reits had had a tough few months are bouncing back on the rate release. >> yes as well as big tech driving a lot of the s&p 500 gains as well aside from the energy move, it is just sort of a reversion to the mean action with stuff that has been beaten down a lot if you wanted to look inside the market and say is the market now
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more confident that the economy is going to be in good shape, well, not by -- we see banks are down, consumer cyclicals not leading, materials not really doing anything industrials as well sitting it out. there is a general sense out there we're able to move a little bit beyond the acute inflation fears and assume the disinflation is now the trend while also being wary of what it is going to mean for the economy down the road. we are holding in this area, not giving up all the gains and stastay i staying 1% or 2% above yesterday's lows. >> it is a signal for a soft landing. but if that's really the case, why wouldn't we see more cyclical groups? >> it is all probability spectrum if we moved a little bit in that direction where soft landing is more likely, i don't think it necessarily means those are the groups that are going to race ahead today. i think with the fed data
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tomorrow, with the s&p right here, there is a lot of stat nicstatic in the market. >> and conagra, pepsico, ulta beauty became a recession play, a new high every day consumer inflation cooling in november the pain may not be over just yet. walmart's ceo telling our frank holland that higher prices and certain categories will be sticking around. >> consumerables is where we see the most stubborn inflation. we're not hearing from our suppliers looking forward that that is going to come down soon. genera started to adjust. but we think there is going to be persistent inflation with us for a while. >> frank holland joins us. so, frank, after speaking with walmart's ceo what was your take on his impression about the consumer overall right now
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>> certainly believe consumers' ability to pay a softening. walmart has 160 million customers per week and we really touched on the fact that those rising food prices, cpi showed food prices rising by 10% year over year, increasing month over month despite that cooling when it comes to overall inflation and certainly impacting things walmart is adjusting its inventory. says it is adjusting its inventory just to basically deal with this consumer that is facing higher inflation and potential recession. and also said that some of the inflation we're seeing and the softening consumer is one of the reasons why walmart is going to be launching a buy now, pay later option through the start of one walmart the lead investor in one he said overall walmart's pushing more in the financial products to reduce fees for its customers, not saying specifically when it comes to buy now, pay later
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>> all right frank holland, thank you very much let's hit moderna. those shares are rallying today, up more than 20% after promising results from a melanoma study. the biopharma company saying its experimental vaccine developed with merck cut skin cancer recurrence in one midstage trial. what this means for the company, let's bring in michael ye from jeffries i don't think we have gotten to the -- to the target low price for you to step in and say buy moderna, you're still on hold. does this news today change anything for you >> great to be here. i think the news today should make people more positive on moderna, particularly because of what we talked about before. which is the applications of the platform to a whole broader away of applications beyond covid covid has been moving behind us. nobody is really talking about the vaccine or utilization, there is a lot more pipeline stuff to come.
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while it didn't get to the super cheap levels we talked about weeks ago and missed it, today's cancer news makes more people excited about the pipeline. >> this is for people who have had -- have diagnosed melanoma, had it surgically removed and they use this? >> that's correct. so you had melanoma, you got the tumor out, you get keytruda and the personal cancer vaccine and there is a significant 44% reduction in the rate of the chances of the melanoma coming back. >> mike, this has been a crazy stock to watch moderna. >> yes it has been wild. it is actually just a little bit over two years ago, right, late november 9th of 2020, when we did get the initial vaccine results on covid the stock trades super cheap because it trades like one of these pharmaceutical companies
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or bioteches with one massive product that the market assumes either it solved the problem or it is going to just be declining from there the next thing is very important for the longer term story to show there is more of a pipeline and more adaptations of this kind of technology to make it a multiyear story from here. >> so, michael, on the melanoma vaccine what is the timeline here for fda approvals and potential time to get it to market and what does the cost look like and the price and how does it impact revenues? >> all great questions and i think it goes to the story of mike just said, covid moved behind us, now we focus on more pipeline stuff they are going to talk with the fda. we'll run a phase three, this is a few years from the market, so it is a few years from generating revenues. this is a 2025, 2030 application. the stocks trade on what is
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coming in the future as covid passes us, melanoma and the next coming month, two or three, phase three rsv vaccine data as well more to come on that i think the story is transition away from covid and that's super important. >> we need that rsv vaccine. it is everywhere michael, thank you very much michael ye take a look at jetblue shares they're getting crushed after the company warned demand is coming in below expectation. the company says revenue per available seat mile will be at the low end of the previous range. phil lebeau joins us jetblue problem or a broader airline demand problem >> a little of both is the reason for the airline stocks being underpressured today for jetblue, you talked about what they're expecting for december coming in lower than what many people were expecting from the company they also blamed hurricane nicole and the caribbean, hurting traffic, just overall it is just not a very robust
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report that's jetblue specific. but then you add in a couple of comments in the last week from alaska, and from spirit, in terms of the figures being a little below what people were expecting, that's enough to spook investors. tomorrow we will get a big report, it will be the expected q4 guidance, the expectation, when delta holds its investor day and we're going to be talking with ed bastian on "squawk box. we'll put it right to him, what are you noticing in terms of revenue. we'll get a better read tomorrow, more updated tomorrow when we talk with him. >> i feel like the sector is so sensitive to bad news. down 4.2%. why the underperformance of jetblue? what is happening in the last few months since the spirit drama, right >> sure. i'm not sure it is underperformance i think it is a case that the
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guidance, which was pretty broad, is just not going to the upper end of what people were expecting. all it takes is one mention of things slowing down a little bit in december, boom, that's enough to spook people, especially not just with jetblue, but with all of the airline stocks. the number of people i talked with, sara, who say i hear about great demand, but i think we're going into a recession doesn't add up to me, i think that's part -- that's at play here for the most part. >> no question thank you, phil. phil lebeau, jetblue down 8% right now. if you lock look at what's selling off, airlines, automobile manufacturers, food retailers are getting hit. staples are underperforming. a good day for technology, good day for the reits, the office reits, home improvement, some sectors that are sensitive to rates perhaps. >> a lot of it is the rate move and laggards catching up i'm not sure you necessarily
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want to see the huge nasdaq stocks be the main driver of upside on a daily basis. it is broad enough it is all that is going on but with tesla sitting it out, it is a good gain for the nasdaq 100. and that, to me, feels like -- apple acting pretty well in the afternoon. prefer to see some of the cyclicals do a little bit better, but right now it is not really what the story of the day. >> i'm glad you mentioned tesla is down another 4% now down 10.5% this week, it is only tuesday, and for the month, down 17% tesla certainly sitting out the rally, what are you seeing in the internal >> it is strong, but nothing decisive we were up 2.7% in the s&p nothing like that going on right now. barely more advancing volume than declining volume. it is solid, but not really decisive anyway. look at the home builders, though this is an unsurprisingly reaction to the backup in treasury yields, up a percent
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and a half, really not too far below the august lows. acting somewhat better as if that housing market can restart without too much trouble the volatility index giving back yesterday's pop. there was a real tensing up ahead of the cpi number, we're down again below 23, not back toward the lows. but after the fed meeting tomorrow, assuming no real additional market stress, that will probably be coming further lower. >> here we go, from one big market day on inflation to another on the fed day tomorrow. look at where we stand, the dow is up 100 points the dow was up 700 points. we lost all of it and then some, went negative a few times today, the afternoon. managed to recover we're up 89 points goldman sachs, home depot and microsoft adding the most to the dow. s&p 500 is still higher. there is the nasdaq, up 1%
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reits are leaving. real estate, energy, communication services, the only sector to close down, consumer staples. and the nasdaq -- tesla rallies yet again. that's it for me on "closing bell." see you tomorrow on fed day. now to "overtime" with scott wapner thank you very much. and welcome to "overtime." i'm scott wapner you heard the bells. we're getting started. in a little bit, we'll be joined by mark newton on what stocks are likely to do now given today's stunning reversal after that cpi we're also following the late breaking story on apple that could have major impact on the company's lucrative app store. stay tuned for that. good to have everybody with us today. we have dan greenhaus here, joe te terranova as well.

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