tv Fast Money CNBC December 13, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
debate about whether the fundmentals have to soften up fo for a weak early 2023. >> going to see you tomorrow i'll see all of you tomorrow for fed gay. jeffrey gundlach is back with us again and his first reaction to the decision sand what they say at the news conference have a great night "fast money" is now. right now on "fast," power on the clock final decision this year on rates just hours away but one top market watcher said investors are paying too much attention to rates and not enough to the fed's other big tool. and plus promising new result for a new treatment from skin cancer, the off the charts stock reaction coming up. and later another tesla tumble the stock down 10% in two days and roughly 40% this quarter is the dent in the ev maker opening the door nor the rest of the industry to catch up. and fresh troubles for tiktok two more states taking action
against the app to ban it. i'm melissa lee and this is "fast money. on the desk tonight. we start off with the markets c roller coaster giving up a gain as investors digested what it could mean for the fed's decision tomorrow after g red closele up 100 points and the nasdaq rising a percent though it had been up 4% at highs of the day. the s&p holding on to gains but take a look at the move in treasuries the two year falling to the lowest level in over two months so how does this tell ahead of the fed's decision tomorrow, the ten-year yield also moved lower an the zollar index had a big move too. >> and think the last day and a half, yesterday and half of today, in terms of face ripping rally in the year end. you saw a glymph it this morning when the s&p was up 120 handles.
just in a flash. what does it say let's break it down. ten year yield going lower suggests a market is slowing down and does not suggest that the fed has your back, i don't think they do. in the tease you talked about maybe interest rates in the federal reserve shouldn't be in ore purview any more it should be about earnings and earnings growth and this market to me does not have the wherewithal to get you the earnings and the earnings growth that you need to have a commensurate multiple level at 18 1/2 we should be sat a lower multiple level and anticipating lower earnings. >> could i insert this one thought though. >> it is your show for a long time now. >> more than a decade. anyway, what if soft landing is much por possible. what if this deflationary trend now because it is not just october, it is an october plus a november and then possibly some more signals that we are going to have a soft landing and therefore earnings don't have to
be ratcheted down so much. >> the stock market is telling you the base case for a soft landing and the next dip and retest from lows from october we probably hold because at that point we discount that kind of earnings dropoff that guy is talking about here rates have come down and we know that inflation reasons are coming down. that is the base case right here and i've said this a little bit. steve you had 17 1/2% off the lows the difference now is that sentiment is too hopeful at this point. when you think about the fact that yes we've had the rate increases the pace of the rate increases is slowing down. but the rate is going to stay high and then all of the other effects working into the economy, i'm no economist but i look at markets i've been doing this for a bit sand with this s&p where it is right now around 4,000 did not encapsulate in my opinion something worse than a
base case scenario, the fear has to work into the stock market, it is just not there. >> what happens if we don't stay higher for longer. >> what do you mean. >> that is the base case is that we're higher for longer. but what happens if inflation comes in precipitously. >> and then we pivot and the fed takes it back. >> i think we could say, higher than longer i think we could stay at higher than zero but not at 4.5 or 5. >> powell said that we're not going to pivot or this, we're just going to leave them up here and stop -- >> and leave them up here at 4.5 and 5. what happens if they leave them up there at 2, 2.5 or 3. >> and then they pivot and remain high. >> if you look at these inflation swaps, they have the fed funds rate being higher than inflation by may so if that is the case, then the fed doesn't have to raise any more we're so close to it
so if they don't have to raise, they leave them at 4.5, 5 for a bit, the market turns, then they could start cutting rates pretty quickly. so i don't think anyone is thinking about that just yet >> all right >> well could i just say one thing. but they don't have to cut rates. inflation comes down faster than you think. you have the situation where the real rate is lower something bad would have to happen for them to cut rates. >> why would they leave -- we're just trying to think through this. >> because they want to normalize rates back in 2018. >> but inflation now is at 3% or 3.5% why would they leave at 4.5% or 5. >> you would have to have a reason to cut them. >> because now they're creating a more severe downturn >> but guy has been waiting for this thing to normalize for a long time and the low rates in a low inflationary environment has been the cocktail for every asset over the last 25 years. >> bonawyn, come up here and break up this fight. what do you think?
>> i'm no referee. i'll let them duke it out. but think they both made some good points. they're going at it and i'm going to let them have it. if you're in a situation where you end up pivoting it is because we're in a much more dire situation the second thing is that the terminal rate from fed funds is now implying a lower rate. right. why? is it because quon tateive tighting is going to have this contracting effect on the market and then the third thing is, why are we really with gdp where are we with gdp as it pertained to termin aal rates f. , if these rates are going to stay higher for longer i think people are starting to look forward to that and try to come up with some cocktail or pivoting or staying or if we are going to keep the terminal rate, at a plateau, that it is going
to be lower. you know my camp i'm not in either of those i don't believe any of those are the situation. i do think there is an earnings recession that is looming but there is the same situation where you have fed funds lower and you're seeing rest of the asset -- the rest of the assets being priced on the back of that >> we have a shot to steve grassley as he turned bright red. it was the loudest ring in "fast money. >> the problem is it is one of my children so i have to bypassing the silent mode so that i never miss a call now i might have to turn off the phone. >> what do we do every night at 4:59. >> do you turn them off or silent. >> silent. >> i love bonawyn matched the bar graph. it wa it was fascinating in terms of why think i don't think it could happen -- but it may. but the thought of the federal
reserve slowing things down, the commodities and precious metals and energy traded higher so go back to peter's note today, they want to avoid the 19 2ir7, which i have happen to remember vividly 1973 mistake when they thought they had defeated inflation and it came back in spades. >> and the reason i say is that this is brought on because the pandemic, because of supply chain issues and because of the ton of money thrown and so we have neever done this. so i don't know if we compare it to something else. >> say the fed does pivot, don't you think the market will rally ignite another round of inflation. why would the fed do that. he's going all this way to battle -- >> they're never going to telegraph it he's going to tell us it is higher for longer and that we want to make sure that we kill everything that we kill growth, we kill everything so he's going to tell you negative i don't think he's going to say, so you're talking about pivoting, what i'm saying is if we get to a point within the
market where inflation is lower than the fed's funds rate, what is the point that is what they want -- they want to get to that. >> okay. so here is my question tonight what does -- what does a ten-year yield tell us then. because we saw tech and growth st stocks and big tech rise on the back of rates today. but what is this telling us. a lower ten year yield. >> that the economy is slowing down and people are plowing into the names for obvious reasons because that is the knee-jerk reaction this is something that carter worth talking about about a month or so ago. he said rates could go lower an the dollar goes lower and stocks rally in the short-term until they realize slower growth is not bullish for the market and i i think that is what we're seeing. >> maybe they could pull this up look at ten year over the last 20 years or so it is upper left or bottom right and it got to zero and no one thought it would get to zero we were at 6% in 2000 at the top. we were 5% in 2007 at the top.
2018 we got to 3.25 or something like that and then we went to zero here we are, back at this kind of 4, 3. it probably settles between 3 and 4 and it would take another black swan event nor the fed to -- given where the balance sheet is and the ability to roll off from the $9 trillion mark. they'll have to leave rates much higher than zero and it is just going to be the case so then it comes down to inflation. and we all knew this we debated over the term of transitory meant we all knew it would go away whether it was three months or a year and three months and then we get back to all of the disinflationary forces that we worried about. technology and globalization at the end of the day, rates will stay higher for longer, i believe jay powell on this. >> what does this tell us about the reaction to the markets
jerome powell will have home. >> the market believes there is a pivot or a pause so if he puts a wet blanket on th that i think the market will selloff. i do believe we'll rally floor year end it just is how far will it go. >> bonawyn >> get ready for a wet blanket we've seen this time and time again. the markets want to interpret what they have it is whatever the warmth is not coming i think powell is going to hammer home the fact that the fight against inflation is not over and he wants to make sure that he at least makes the rhetoric clear so he doesn't have to make an exacerbated move and cause for pressure to the downside. >> yeah, i'll just say this. listen, we have the data and we had a 3% rip and we have fields come in. if jay powell comes in and said the exact same thing that he said two weeks ago, i do ents they the market will get hit he really hard. i think investors will start
getting smart to this and start following the data, not what he said and i think that is really important as we work our way into 2023. but quickly, in january, we're going to start to see fourth quarter earnings in 2023 guidance for companies and that is also the stata that you're going to want to watch because all of the major five companies that make up nearly 25% of the s&p and 40% of the nasdaq, they all guided down for the current quarter and kind of missed on the last one i d i don't think that is a one quarter thing. so i think the earnings is what takes it down and that is going to be counterbalancing the fact that we're seeing increasingly weaker inflationary readings. >> for more on inflation and the fed letez bring in head of u.s. equity at b of a securities. great to see you i'm going to ask you the same question that i asked the traders just a few minutes ago and that is what did the ten year yield tell us because you say that is the key determinate in terms of direction of
markets, not the feds funds rate but the ten-year yield. >> yeah. i mean, our premise has been that this laser focus on the fed is really police placed. because what is more important for equity performance and in particular for the s&p and the nasdaq is the long end the curve. so, everyone is hoping for a pivot, praying for a pivot i don't flow if this makes sense on the short end, we've found that the worst time to be in equities is when credit conditions are tighter and the fed is easing. it smacks of desperation and our view is that we are going to be in a tightening credit condition environment in the first half of next year. now, look, i mean, one thing that we're realizing is that everyone is bearish now. i mean, the world is talking about everything that can go wrong, everyone thinks earnings are too high so i do think that there are, you know, reasons to be invested in this market and you can't be
out of equities completely but i think that the focus on inflation and the fed is likely to sift for the real economy to real rates to growth prospects, i thinkin inflation will remain high and stickier than is pencilled in and i would love to hear what everyone on the panel thinks but the market right now is pricing in very low inflation or reversion back to the 2% heyday that we had for the last ten years. and i don't think that is the case any more. i think we're in a re-set. we're inflation is going to stay higher, call it 4% to 5% for a longer period of time. so those are the things that we need to brace for and think about as we move into 2023 the idea that we're not in the same -- this is not the same show that we watched for the last ten years we don't pray for -- >> so i've heard you talk about the new leadership once we do
come out of this, it is never the same as the old leadership. >> yeah. >> but we're looking at technology now that doesn't have a same multiples that they had during the tech bubble so is it the same thing that you could say back then as now >> look, i think tech is a value trap i think it looks cheap because prices are falling faster than analysts are taking down earnings expectations. it has all of the char characteristics of a financial that was dirt cheap and everybody thought it was time to step in but it wasn't because it was a re-set it was the question of are these earnings supportable and i think for technology companies they're facing a lot of headwinds that were tail winds in the last cycle. they're going from globalization and frictionless supply chain environment to protectionism and they need to spend a lot of capex to move stuff back to the
u.s. or outside, out of china. tech companies are facing more regulatory risk. when you look at data privacy issues and regulatory issues that are starting to creep up for the sector, it is not necessarily this sector that it was over the last 20 years so i think valuations should be lower. and i also think that earnings expectations are too high. so, you know, i guess i look at valuations with a -- several hefty spoon fulls of salt for the technology sector and i think that maybe that is not the factor to pay attention to right now. >> we're putting up your year end price tracking for 2023 which makes it look like we're just about flat. but give us sort of the nuance, the curves and et cetera of what this next trading year you think will be like >> yeah, look, i think there is going to be a better entry point for the s&p 500 over the next we'll call it six months and when exactly that moment is,
i think the factors you want to watch are earnings expectations. and one of the things that we're noticing is that right now the earnings revision is falling analysts are taking down earnings but we think that there is a lot more to go. so we're trying to be in the -- the worst time to be in the equity market is when the rate is falling and analysts are continuing to cut. best time to be in the equity market is when the revision ratio is below average and hit that trough and started to move higher so i would watch earnings and i would watch -- if companies give negative guidance for 2023, analysts take their numbers down, maybe i would wait another quarter and see how companies could do and whether the guidance was conservative enough so maybe we need to move into q1 earnings to get a read on whether we re-set expectations relative to the new world that
we live in and then i think -- so to answer your question, sorry, i think the market could go down and then up. but the problem is everybody thinks that so it will probably be the opposite. here is the idea if you want to be in equities for next ten years you could buy today and you will make money. if you want to be in equities for the next five years, be selective but you will probably make money if you want to own equities for the next six months, i would be very, very selective i would look for -- for income, i would look for defense and i would look for companies that are likely to continue to benefit from this rotation energy, you with think that it would be super crowded at this point given how greats it doon this year, but it is still a big underwait weight i think energy has a lot more to do. >> thank you for breaking it down we appreciate that bank of america. which all of this gets back to the point that you were making,
guy, that we have been making since the third quarter, that we haven't seen that re-set happen yet and we're still waiting for that re-set to happen and we thought that it would-it started to happen but not as much as it needs to happen. >> and would be healthy when it does happen. she does extraordinary work and dan could speak to this. if you look at the 20 rules of investing from the early 1980s, you don't buy the stocks when their starting at lower numbers. and that is right. a lot of the names, i'll give you a good example if our taf could put up nvidia, that stock has rallied55 percent from the october low. it is still down 50% from the all-time high but given this run, it is still a very expensive stock. so what are you asking earnings revisions have to come down and valuations have to come down and the number of dollars you'll pay for those earnings in my opinion needs to come down. >> i'll say this while s&p is down 15% and the nasdaq down 20% and think about the returns over the last two
years. this just doesn't feel that bad and i know it is upper left and bottom right series of lower highs and lower lows but think the worst is yet to come we're not going to have a crash down 50% like in '07 or 2000 i think we haven't had the fear yet and that is the thing that we need to see more of this ftx stuff, we need to see more of the companies go to zero like carvana and see more of the excess come out of the market and the sentiment to get bad and the estimates to what guy was saying, to back it up all up and over shoot to the down side and create a scenario where there could be value by taking risk when things feel bad that is not happened yet in 2022 in my opinion. >> coming up, a big day for moderna promising cancer vaccine trials what this breakthrough may mean next plus a boeing blow after a dreamliner order we're boarding this train when "fast money" returns back in two.
after the company issued promising data for a skin cancer vaccine. the melanoma drug combined merck's could be compared and it was the stock's best day since march of 2020. merck shares higher, up more than 40% this year despite the move higher today, shares are down big this year. but this could be importance for this cancer which is fairly common. >> this is something, well first of all, to have them associated with something other than covid, is a win for the stock as far as just granular, the disease, this is a mazing stuff. so you want to see these type of things happen. i think for the entire space, i think the entire space is going to be moving higher and continue to move that way. >> oh, by the way -- >> that is my line oh, by the way i say that a lot. >> i guess you're in my head stephon bon sell was on "squawk box" this morning and asking his
company would provide the covid vaccine to china if they asked listen to what he said. >> of course, we are talking to authorities. i cannot comment on those discussions obviously as we're talking to a sovereign but we want people around the world to fight this virus as you know we have the vaccine that is over the best protection and so we want of course to help. >> so there is that, too huge market for that covid vaccine. >> health care should be above poel politics and that is the correct answer real quickly, go back to august and see what moderna topped out. so i'm not suggesting you chase this into the rally. when merck was at 72, $73, my wife worked there for equipment smite, both karen and tim talked about how undervalued it was and
it is still worth looking at. >> bonawyn, where do you stand >> you know what, i don't think i'm so negative on moderna i think you're seeing the target ajustable market is much larger now. as steven said, this is largely a associated with covid vaccine. and we need to see follow through from the phase two trials now we see a large ailment, you want to stick with this thing is it going to bet gack to 400, the pandemic highs, i think, listen, we're along way from that but in terms of it being a more sustainable portion of your portfolio and having a real use, i think that is actually something to take a second look at. >> there is a lot more "fast money" to come here is what is coming up next. talk about cabin pressure. airlines losing altitude so will the plane problems hurt your portfolio the traders are fastening their seat belts for this trade, next. plus, auto opportunity
tesla troubles could be opening the door for other automakers. could the ev space get charged up the details are ahead. you're watching "fast money," live from the nasdaq market site in times square. we're back rig aerhihtft ts. esg is responsible investing. who's responsible for building esg into your investments? at pgim, the pursuit is on for outperformance. as active investors, to outdeliver with customized strategies, integrating esg best practices into our investment decisions. as asset managers and fiduciaries, to outserve, with our commitment to better esg outcomes. join the pursuit of outperformance at pgim. the investment management business of prudential. [newscast audio] hello, world. or is it goodbye? you know, it seems like hope and trust are in short supply.
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of the guidance. travel and airbnb finishing in red. so should investors brace for more turbulence in this travel trade. and within the cpi numbers there was deflation within hotel rates, guy so there is appreciate everywhere. >> go back to april when all of the names, the airlines made a huge run into the spring and since april 15th or so, a series and i mean four or five lower lows an lower highs an today is another manifestation of that. people will talk about them. i'll one of them delta is great on valuation and great balance sheet. all true the stocks have been difficult to own and holdover the last six or seven months. they will find a level, you'll get some move, i don't think we saw it yet quickly in terms of boeing, which i think a lot of people love now, not a cheap stock at 47 times next years numbers. they need to grow into that valuation and they have to go 2.5 times what current earnings are so they are reasonable
valuation wise. >> and this attracted the sector and i took it off today because again you have that kind of awareness. they closed pretty low it is pretty sp bad trading. i was happy to be out of it. i went to europe a few times this summer an the fares, they were sky highch last night i was out to dinner with my friend of mine that goes to london every other week. >> trip dropper. >> for business. he said their plummeting the fairs are plummeting and i think that is really interesting. put that together with what opec said this morning about demand for crude and i say something is going on here. bookings, ex pedia, this is about a recession. >> and to your point, about fuel, so fuel has been high. so there has been tremendous headwinds. but taking it back to the news of the day, i thought within that 787 dreamliner, it is 787. >> beautiful plane. >> but the 737 max, this is also
reordered those. that is a big deal it could be a horrible plane but there is an association that this used to be a terrible plane because they are over the hump again. so you have to navigate through potential recession but i think the names could probably go higher but we have to get through the global issue that you just referred to. >> which brings us to the once upon a time airlines used to spend a lot of money wrack up all sorts of debt just when the economy was turning south and bonawyn it feels like we're entering that chapter of the industry again they cleaned up their act during the pandemic, they had to. but with re back to where we started. >> they're fighting for survival and you make a good point. and i think it is positive for boeing there as they try to shore up free cash flow andir think the airlines have lagged out a little bit for one, if you look at the november reading, you're seeing the airline airfares were up
mid-30s. 33%, 34%, they've been able to raise prices to help shore up free cash flow and to service that debt. i think there comes to a point where you're unable to raise prices and then you need to pull other levers to stay afleoat soi think the price action and the jet blue announcement is reflecting that they have more challenging balance sheets although they're getting into better shape. >> coming up, can ts tesla's gains lead to and lay out what is in the store for the ev space. why the next two years are crucial for the industry and the ftx fallout continues as sam bankman-fried is arrested on criminal charges the latest on those charges and the details from today's ftx hearing when "fast money" returns. >> announcer: get your trades to go with a "fast money" podcast catch us any time, anywhere. follow today on your favorite
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and the nasdaq leading the gains with a rise of 1%. energy seeing a nice jump up nearly 2% as crude oil continues to bounce back above $75 a barrel crude now up nearly 6% so far this week. and a few stocks have been near all-time highs, ulta, and pepsi and boston scientific all trades near records tesla is now down nearly 40% in the fourth quarter. putting it on pace for its worst quarter ever and take a look at this. over the last two years, tesla has shed more than a fifth value, gm mean ttime is down 7% and ford is up 50% so do tesla's troubles open the door for the ev boom let's welcome mark fields. mark was formerly the ford ceo and most recently interim hertz board member and great to have you here in the house at the nasdaq market site
do you think that tesla stumbles, do you think that tesla's reputational damage, the recent polls saying that the negative comments are eking out the positive view of tesla all of that will help gm and ford in this ev race >> well i think on balance you have to look at this relatively. and saying, listen on balance is it a net positive or a net news ral or a net negative. and when you look at tesla, first and foremost they're a battery and technology company that happens to make cars. that is a big advantage. they have a big first mover advantage there. that being said, they have a lot of challenges, right demand, and we've heard about china showing down and here in the u.s. they had 100% share starting so it could only go down but it is going down but importantly, under $50,000, they don't have a product. that is where the growth is going to be going forward. as you shift from early adopters to mass adoption so that is going to be a challenge for them and then you have the whole
situation around the ceo focus i mean in the auto industry, it is a 24/7 job. and you're focusing every day on your team around the world, how do you improve efficiency and sales. how do you improve the product and with elon musk, he's got a lot of balls in the area and then you have to ask the question because it was a start-up that has now grown to the volume that it has, not every decision can come up to the ceo as it has. so you have to ask yourself the question, what is the decision making there is the boss isn't there full time. >> so we're chatting during the break and i want to give the audience a glimpse at how a former auto ceo researches another auto company you went on the tesla website and what did you find and what did that tell you? >> well when you look at demand, i mean, a year ago, it took nine months if you wanted to specifically order a tesla i hopped on the website today, inventory that is available,yo can literally get a tesla in the next couple of days and oh, by
the way, they're giving a $3,750 bonus if you take it before the end of the year. now if you order one, they're saying that in the next 60, 60 days or so you could have your tesla. so that is saying something about, you know, demand for the product going forward. but that being said, they're going to continue to grow because the whole industry is going to shift towards evs so even as their share comes down and he's going to have some issues, they're still going to grow so it is not the end of the world for them. >> mark, in 22 years ago ford was a $14 stock and it is rallied and it is a $14 stock today. gm you could make the same argument why doesn't the street reward these companies for being better companies than they were five, even ten years ago. >> well, that is a frustration i mean at the end of the day, i think investors are looking at established automakers and saying for many years you basically weren't value creators but since the great recession,
you look at ford, you look at gm and chrysler, and now stellantis they've created a lot of value they're balance sheets are strong the management teams are battle tested from the great recession and things of that nature. what we couldn't get credit for is all of the investments we're making in evs, and the software content on our vehicles because there is -- in my view there was always a view, hey, you know, you're a manufacturer. can you get that and i think a lot of the companies are proving that they can. you look at ford with their mach e and the f-150 lightning and their transit. these are good products with a lot of software content and they're evs and at some point, i would think the market is going to reward that particularly in an environment where we're coming off, you know, start-up companies that were rewarded with a prototype and a business plan and they got a multiple of
three times what the establish oem were. >> we have the henry ford and lee iacocca and elon musk is playing off a lot of that and there is a lot of enthusiasm about what he's been able to doo in the auto industry, pushing it faster toward evs. but whether you think about the stock right now, it is down about 60% in the last year it is lost more than half a trillion dollars and in market cap and it just closed at a two-year low today and if we woke up to elon musk is not the ceo of tesla, the stock might gap up 20% talk to me about the cult of elon musk in and around this story. >> well, at the end of day, if you look at composition of ownership ever tesla stock, it has a large retail portion so a lot of people brought into -- he's done a terrific job of moving the industry toward evs. there is no question about that
and build a very strong brand in the process. but they bought into his story about growth going forward now what you have is a situation where growth is a bit questioned, right. given that they have all of this chris capacity coming online and what is going on with the market place. but he's so associated with that brand, as a ceo, that the positions that he's taking on social and political things unbalance that is a net negative for a company. when i was running ford or any ceo today, you have to pick and choose what either social or political issues you dive into and they have to be very tied to your values as a company and maybe it is one, maybe it is twice a year but no more than that but if yodiving in on every sinl things and you have opinions on all sides, that is going to hurt the brand image in some form or fashion. >> mark, thanks for coming buy
come by any time mark fields. >> thanks. >> all right here is the question though ultimately tesla is trading at a forward pe that is the lowest ever. we've not seen this forward pe so would you rather, steve grasso, tesla or ford? >> well it is interesting you say that i think because it is been so beaten up, i would have to go with tesla and what mark said about being able to get a car in six days or a month, isn't that a good thing? isn't that a supply chain tail wind right now i'm going to go tesla has been so beaten up, i'll go with tesla for 500, jack. >> who is jack >> not me. bonawyn, what do you say >> yeah, i'm on the same page. from both -- from a trading stand point, it is a higher beta name and come sof so much. whether you buy into the elon musk story and his distractions,
i still think there is a massive retail following and at end of the day consumer brands are about brand loyalty and despite the brand erosion, for a trade it could be tesla for me. >> gee, i wonder what you feel. >> i think he's not going to be the ceo of the company a year from now and i think that might near term be a positive and pliegts release sp pressure and i think long that is what kind of makes the valuation come back in line with some of the peers, especially as they are gaining market share so to me, if you're telling me offer the next five years i would much rather be long ford than tesla. >> >> you want to see how we tie a ribbon around things on "fast money" at 5:00. argentina won today, they beat croatia. mark fields ran ford's operation in argentina in 1986 look at that just neat little pack package for you.
>> but i think talking about tieing a bow on it you nailed it, fords that done nothing for years and years an the problem is it is a behemoth. how does is it offer, it can't pivot to a point selling ev trucks it has too much weight carrying it down. >> coming up, a massive year's long fraud sam bankman-fried who has just now been denied bail in the bahamas and what the new ceo had to say about the crypto exchange and how it was run and that is next and talk about a social pariah, lawmakers introducing atiktok ban. don't go anywhere. "fast money" is back there two
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welcome back to "fast money. a bahamas judge denied bail to sam bankman-fried in the last hour and remanding him to jail until february 8th facing multiple counts of fraud and conspiracy and money laundering as house lawmakers grilled the new ceo on capitol hill today we have the latest elon >> current ftx ceo john ray testified before the house financial services committee for about four hours today
he flat out denied several of the claims that bankman fried has plead. he said it is not credible that this was snow all of a big mistake and that is not accurate that ftx was fully sool vent and not able to cover liabilities on november 7th despite the tweet to the contrary. >> this is really old-fashioned and embezzlement this is just taking money from customers, and using it for your own purpose. not sophisticated at all sophisticated in the way that they were able to sort of hide it from people frankly, right in front of their eyes but it is -- this isn't sophisticated whatsoever this is just plain old embezzlement. >> and he acknowledged that some customers may never get their money back so far he said his team has secured about a billion dollars but this is a painstaking process and he said it is likely to take months
back over to you. >> thank you dan, we're chatting about this earlier an it is just astounding how many investors invested in sam bankman-fried. and in the platform. >> i think it is an indictment of the period that we've been in people will point fingers at a lot of different spots here. and he's a fraud, as duffy said on our show a couple of weeks ago and there is very few people to see it. and the thing we all think about is we've seen the booms and bust cycles there needs to be levels of due diligence and the fact that so many sophisticated investors or spokesperson were throwing money at it or taking his money, that is the other thing, it just seemed like, again, going into the next cycle, if we're going to have another bull run, it has to be founded on i think better due diligence and the way we kind of think about the next craze and who the people getting away from the cult of personality of some of the situations and digging in. >> and that is what happens when
welcome back the future of tiktok in the u.s. growing more uncertain as florida senator marco rubio unveiled legislation that would ban the use of video app the latest proposal coming after utah and alabama became the latest states to block tiktok from state government devices. u.s. social media stocks were higher today with pinterest and meta climbing. there is more upside for one of these names. mike khouw has the action. hey, mike. >> so snap traded over 1.7 times the average daily call volume. the businest options were 6600 trade for 16 cents that part of 45,000 and buyers betting that snap could get back above 150 by this week and pinterest and that did hold on to the early gains today.
>> bonawyn, do you like any of the social stocks? >> yeah. given the back drop, i think if tiktok were to be banned i think it is a boon i think snap probably has like the closest in terms of what the actual consumer offering is. >> all right mike, thank you. mike khouw for more "options action" tune in friday at 5:30 p.m. eastern time. up next, final trades. you ok, man? the internet is telling me a million different ways i should be trading. look! what's up my trade dogs? you should be listening to me. you want to be rich like me? you want to trust me on this one. [inaudible] wow! yeah! it's time to take control of your investing education. cut through the noise with best-in-class education resources that match your preferred style of learning. learn your way. not theirs. td ameritrade. where smart investors get smarter℠.
[newscast audio] learn yhello, world.theirs. or is it goodbye? you know, it seems like hope and trust are in short supply. [clap] now, as businesses we can blame and shame. or [whistles]... we can make a change. [clap] we can make work, work for our communities. create more equal opportunities. [clap] maybe, just maybe, get a bit more unity. ♪ let's have less cancellation and more conversation. prioritize conservation.
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and this is a live look at the bahamas. this is sam bankman-fried, you see him there exiting the courthouse he has been ordered to report back to prison where he'll be held until february 8th. sam bankman-fried denied bail and here he is exiting that courthouse apparently in response to the decision, he hugged his parents and he shrugged his shoulders and disappointed and here he is in the custody of the bahamas authorities. the judge jailing the ftx founder until the case resumes again on february 8th. so we will continue to watch this story for you okay i think we could do one quick
final trade. >> it is your show. >> go ahead. >> moderna but it has to hold $200 i don't like it below. moderna. >> we only have one more. >> wynn resorts, sister. >> like ischsesws ee. >> "mad money" starts now hey, i'm cramer. welcome to "mad money. welcome to cramerica other people want to make friends, i'm here to make you money. my job is not just to educate but to teach and entertain so-call me at 800-743-cnbc or tweet me
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