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tv   Piers Morgan Tonight  CNN  May 15, 2011 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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terrorists loud and clear -- however long it takes, they will be hunted down. -- captions by vitac -- transformation like no other. chastity bono, a little girl who grew up on tv, now a man called chaz. >> i don't have memories till later in life. till at least like 4 or 5, 6. i don't remember anything from my early childhood. >> tonight he's here to tell us extraordinary story. >> probably because i didn't like the way i looked. i don't know. maybe i'll start to like it the more i see myself looking different. >> when did chaz know he was
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meant to be a man? how did he break the news to his partner jennifer? and his mother cher? chaz bono, his first live primetime interview. this is "piers morgan tonight." chaz bono tells huz story in the new book "transition: the story of how i became a man" and "becoming chaz" on oprah winfrey's network. i watched you on david letterman last night. one of the most amusing encounters i've seen on a talk show in years. he was so uncomfortable. he didn't know quite how to handle you. quite how to deal with what you were telling him, the enormity of what you'd gone through. what was it like for you last night? >> you had a really good time. i like dave a lot. i've always been a fan. he's got this history with my family. so i really wanted to go on the show. i thought he represented a lot of people who really don't know about this issue. so it gave me a great opportunity to break it down,
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you know, really simply kind of do a transgender 101. so i was really happy to do that. >> tell me this. when he began laughing at what you were saying and some of the audience were -- not all -- some of them were -- did you feel awkward when that happens? >> not at all. no. it's that kind of a show. it's a fun show. i never felt like people were laughing at me. it was kind of a funny situation, me and, you know, dave talking about this stuff. so no, i had a really good time. >> it was entertaining to watch. >> yeah. >> i just wondered how you felt. >> i felt really good, actually. >> for the reasons you said, that he, like a lot of people, probably a slightly older jenner generation would find this hard to deal with. >> hard to deal with and hard to understand more than anything. i never got the sense that dave was judging me or had any -- >> no, no. >> -- at all other than really not understanding. >> do you think he got it by the end? >> i think he was starting to get it. >> maybe a little more. >> yeah, i think he was starting
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to get it. >> maybe send him to some transgender classes? >> i just -- you know, i want to get him off saying homosexual so much. so you know, if i did that, that will be great. >> the book's fascinating, the story is fascinating. like most people i can remember you as a little girl, "sonny and cher" shows. you don't have much memory of that time which i find very interesting. >> yeah, of when i was really little on the show and of that kind of the picture that everybody has in their head and, you know, that i was probably 2 or 3, i really don't remember that. >> i want to play you a clip from the show. just to remind people who don't remember. this was you on the "sonny and cher show." >> you can be a good little angel or you can be a naughty little devil.
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>> i'd rather be a naughty devil. >> all right, then pull it. >> you don't remember that. now you've seen it again. >> right. >> what memories does it bring back to you if anything? >> most of the memories i have of that time was backstage. the way that kids have silly memories of things. i remember that we shot at cbs and it was right near the farmer's market and i used to like to go there and get mexican food. those type of weird things. >> do you remember being -- >> i don't remember being -- >> -- part of a famous family? >> not at all. that didn't register at that point. then as i got older, it did. but not really about me. just when i was with my parents and especially my mom, just how everybody else reacted, i was, of course, aware of. >> what kind of girl were you as
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you got past that stage and became 7, 8, 9, when you can start to remember, what kind of girl were you? >> i guess what you would call a classic tomboy. but what i would say was, you know, i was really a boy. i felt like a boy and my friends were all boys. and i was really comfortable in that space in school from ages probably, you know, 6 through 10, 11. then as i started to get older and about to head into puberty, things started to get difficult. expectations of how a young lady should act started to creep in. and then, of course, i hit puberty and my body just started to transform in a way that was exactly the opposite of what i wanted it to do. >> were you able -- were you mature enough to understand this transformation wasn't right for you? or did you just feel odd? >> i felt like it wasn't right for me, but at that point i mean, i didn't know -- i didn't know about being transgender. i didn't know that people could transition from one -- i had no
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idea. i just knew that something felt incredibly wrong and what was happening to me, particularly i was very aware of my breasts and that they just felt wrong on my body. and that i always tried to de-emphasize them in every way -- wear baggy shirts and really try to de-emphasize them in every way that i could. >> to me in reading the book, the same time you're going through this extraordinary experience and the feelings that you're having, your mother is one of the most famous sex symbols, the embodiment of female beauty. >> right. >> does that make it more difficult for you? >> no, i don't think it really made it -- i think that was kind of incidental. i think it was difficult in that i think as a mother and during that time period, she had expectations of how she thought i was going to be and there was friction between us because of that.
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but i don't think it really mattered to me one way or the other that, you know, she was a sex symbol or any of those things. >> as you got a little older into your teens, you began to think in your mind that possibly you were just gay, you were a lesbian. >> right, that's what i initially thought. when i was about 14, i realized that i'm attracted to women and so i must be a lesbian. that must be what this feeling that i felt my whole life is. that must be the reason. >> and you weren't attracted to boys at all? >> never, no. >> you say that -- >> though i have to say i do -- i'm not used to having an hour. i can actually talk. i know, it's great. >> don't worry. >> in looking back and really after transitioning, there were some incidents when i was younger where i had really like, you know, guy crushes, that guys have on each other. and i didn't realize it at the time. and i thought, oh, this must be -- you must like him in a way that a girl likes a guy, and i
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would kind of pursue that. and then go on a date or something and be like, this feels -- this is absurd. i feel ridiculous. and i don't want to be intimate with this person at all, but i really like him in a special way. and it was like i was having bromances before i realized i was a guy. >> you had sex once with a guy. >> once, yes. >> what was the experience like? >> just kind of bland, really. i mean, it wasn't like a horrific dramatic experience in any way. it was just like -- >> why did you do that? to prove to yourself that you -- >> no, it wasn't, no. it was kind of immature, but i was only 16 at the time. so many people would say to me, because i was out to my friends and everything. and people when i would tell them, how do you know? you've never been with a man. and so i wanted to do it so i could say i've done it. i know. >> so you get to your late teens. you now assume that you're a lesbian. >> right. >> what is that like for you? as you go forward, you start to
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go out with girls, does that feel natural and normal to you at the time? >> it does, but there's an expectation of the girls that i'm going out with, that i'm supposed to act like a girl, too. and that felt weird. like in high school, i had some experiences with girls who were experimenting more and were really probably straight and actually were probably responding to my male energy because i still know them and they've never been with any other woman. so that felt really good, but then as i like after high school when i actually started going out with lesbians, there was an expectation from them that i was supposed to act a certain way like a woman, and that started to feel really uncomfortable. >> you must be getting really confused. >> i was very confused and uncomfortable for a lot of my life. >> at what point does the confusion you have when you
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think you're a lesbian start to transform into there's something else here. >> right. >> and at what point do you work out what that something else may be? >> for me it was a pretty long process, actually. and it was probably around 30, 31, and i remember i was dating somebody who had a lot of lesbian friends. and so i was doing a lot of different -- going to a lot of social events. i can remember being at some big like house barbecue and there are a lot of lesbians around. i was kind of sitting back and watching and thinking and looking at everybody. and i realized that even the more masculine women there still had a really strong female identity. and it dawned on me that i never had that. and so at that point i started to think maybe i'm not a lesbian. and if i'm not, what am i? and at that point i started to
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go back over my whole life in my head and just put all of these different things together. >> we'll have a short break. when we come back, we'll get to the moment when you decide, i want to be a man. >> okay. >> we're also going to hear from nick cannon about an extraordinary scam targeting his wife mariah carey and their babies. >> saying that my wife was drinking beer and all that stuff. people will do anything to try to conjure up a story.
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everything is changing. there's so much clarity coming, and i'm sure there will be more things that i discover that i just didn't realize until i went on hormones and started to feel comfortable. >> i'll give you a mirror if you want to see. >> nice and flat, huh? >> wow. looks beautiful. >> there you go. >> a documentary "becoming chaz." and chaz bono is with me now. this is an extraordinary documentary, an extraordinary story and centers really around the pivotal moment when you decide, i actually want to be a man. >> mm-hmm. >> and i'm going to do something about this. tell me about that moment. >> well, it was a long time coming, so i think i was starting to put it together around my early 30s. and then suddenly i was like how can i -- what can i do about this? i'm a public figure. if i transition, the whole world's going to know.
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and i felt like i'm going to just be, i don't know, a laughingstock. and so it took me years and years to get over the myriad of fears that i had about it. and in the end, i think it was -- i finally started to put my needs above everybody else's. and that's really what it took for me. i was the kind of person that always worried about everybody else before me and everybody less else's feelings. >> this is my life. >> yeah, this is my life. and i'm going to be 40 and i need to do this for myself. the actual moment happened kind of in two part in a therapy session where i had that epiphany. this is my life and i need to do this. then i went home and was talking to jenny about it. and we got in to this huge fight -- >> this is your girlfriend, who is coming on in a moment. >> yes, exactly. i got so -- like she triggered
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something in me in this fight. and i had this primal experience happen of i think all of the repression feelings that i stuffed down for so many years came out in this enormous primal scream. we literally afterwards both knew this has got to happen. >> and remarkably -- i don't say remarkably because i don't know her at all, but jennifer stayed with you. >> yes. >> and has supported you, difficult as it has been for her. and we'll discuss in a moment how difficult it has been. pretty amazing that she's done that. >> it is. >> now listen to a clip of your mother cher. her reaction to your transition. >> it's been difficult for different -- anyone different. for, you know, from burning people that they thought were witches. any time you're different, you're going to pay some sort of a price. it depends on the culture as to what price you pay. you know?
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and chaz works with children as young as 3 and 4 that just feel that they're in the wrong body, and she does counseling, you know -- he does counseling. so it's a very difficult thing. >> even your mother's not quite sure if you're a he or a she, chaz. that's an uncomfortable moment. >> for her, look, it's ingrained. it's 40 years of saying "she." so it takes a little time to get out of that habit. >> be brutally honest. >> okay. >> your mom, from all i've read, wasn't happy about the fact that you were a lesbian to start with, till your father sonny reacted better to that. >> mm-hmm. >> that's correct? >> that is correct, yes. >> so when you come with another whammy which is, mom, if you thought that was bad, take a load of this. how did she react when you first said to her -- by then she'd got used to you being a lesbian. >> definitely. >> some of the interviews she was supportive and became a loving mother.
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but then you hit her with this new bombshell, how did she react? >> again, we talked about it over time. so it wasn't like one, you know, bombshell. >> she knew. >> that this was something that i was feeling and struggling with and trying to figure out. when i finally went to her shortly after the incident with jen and told her i'm going to do this. you know, i've been struggling with this and i realize this is something i need to do and i'm going to do it, she was actually unbelievably supportive. just like amazing. i kind of couldn't believe it. she was so calm, and we had a wonderful talk about it. and then i think as the reality started to hit her, it became more difficult for her and really she's talked about when my voice started to change, it really hit her. and she had to go through -- >> because she's now got a son. >> right, exactly. >> for the first time in 40
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years. >> yes. she had to grieve the loss of her daughter, of that little bit of female side that i had. and as time has gone on, i think she's become more and more comfortable and understanding about it. she'll continue to. >> you certainly put her through the hoop, haven't you, chaz, let's be honest. >> i guess. but i've always been a pretty good kid, a good guy. you know, this is how i was born. so -- >> do you think your mother knew? do you think she had an inkling from an earlier age? >> no, i think when i was really young, she thought i was going to grow up and be gay. that's what she thought. i don't think she really thought that. here i grew up in the '70s, we didn't know about this. >> not completely. this is actually, to your great credit, have become a kind of trail blazer for this. but at the moment you told your mother about this, she being hugely famous around the world, you growing up in this fame bubble, you had both known the moment this got out. >> yes.
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>> this was going to be a huge story possibly to beat you both with. >> and i think that was one of the areas that we kind of, you know disagreed on a little bit. and she thought i was going to be much more difficult, and i had faith that we'd come to a place as a culture, that we would be able to be more respectful. >> tell me since this has all blown up. >> yes. >> and you've been on tv everywhere, have you been skrind kate -- vindicated in your belief on that based on how far america's come. >> i have really been amazed. i've been amazed at how the media has covered this and how fair and open minded everybody seemed to be. yeah, i have -- you know, if somebody recognizes me, i always get, you know, a really positive response from them. >> had you done this 25 years ago -- >> it would have been completely different uncht might have been abused in the streets. you've had none of that. >> none of that.
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>> that's a remarkable sign of our times. >> it is. >> does it make you feel good? >> it makes me feel really great. i went to the yankee store to buy a cap and the guy recognized me and couldn't have been cooler. hey, chaz. >> that must make you feel great. >> it does, it does. >> hey, chaz. that's cool. let's take a break and come to somebody else who is pretty cool, which is your girlfriend who stood by you, who is as brave as you. >> she is. naomi pryce: i am. i'm in the name your own price division. i find empty hotel rooms and help people save - >> - up to 60% off. i am familiar. your name? > naomi pryce. >> what other "negotiating" skills do you have? > i'm a fifth-degree black belt. >> as am i. > i'm fluent in 37 languages.
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>> (indistinct clicking) > and i'm a master of disguise >> as am i. > as am i. >> as am i. > as am i. >> well played naomi pryce.
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i was sober when we met. but when things get tough, i start to drink. i mean, i remember when chaz told me that he was going to do this and i said, well, i can't be sober for this. >> chaz bono's girlfriend jennifer who joins us now. jennifer, in many ways you've been through an even more dramatic period of your life than chaz has. at least he knew kind of what was going on. you didn't have a clue really, did you? >> well, early on in our relationship, he told me -- actually, i was told by a friend of his that he was indeed transgender. and i asked him. and he said -- this was in our first year, within the first few months, he said he was, but he
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wasn't planning on doing anything about it at the time. he was comfortable living masculine and as masculine as possible but he would indeed want to do it at some point. >> what was your honest reaction when he said that? >> i compartmentalized that and put it away. >> quite something to xart compartmentalize. your girlfriend says, i want to become a man. >> and i said, we're good for now. i went back in the kitsch chen and went interest my day. i knew we would have to deal with this some day. >> the advantage of having you as a girlfriend, you're bisexual, correct? >> yes, that's correct. >> that's not conjecture, that's the fact. you would be the person who would potentially find him as attractive as a man as he was as a woman. the question to me is do you? >> i find him more attractive as
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a man. >> really? you lucked out. talk about backing the winner. >> i know. >> yeah. i mean, i was -- you know, i am attracted to both men and women, but it is different to have that happen in the same person. >> when it came out of his come partmentallization, great word, and he broke free from that and he was going for the treatment and the testosterone and the hormone ps and he's becoming a man in front of your eyes, beginning to shave and you had your breasts removed and everything, so you're physically becoming a man, when you're seeing that process, what's going through your mind? was it concerning you? did you freak out? did you have arguments? >> there are two components. the physical and the emotional. the physical, the major change first was the top surgery. i was very nervous about that. i was very nervous about going to san francisco, that's where he did it. i had no idea how i would react.
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but to my surprise, i was thrilled. like i got it. when i saw his chest the way it looks now, i thought, oh, right, this makes sense. and i was surprised. i actually thought i might miss the other, but it worked. >> so physically there wasn't a problem. what about psychologically? >> emotionally we went through a lot of work. and i mean you go from being in a female dynamic, even though i believe chaz was always male, he had estrogen. so you have two estrogens in the house, then it goes to estrogen and testosterone and that's an adjustment, absolutely. >> without being too query but as your sex life been affected adversely or for the good by all this? >> for the good. >> that's a remarkable thing, isn't it? i guess very fortunate. it can't always be the case. >> no, and it's not always the
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case. but it does happen. and i know other -- we know people who have gone through the transition together. and -- but we feel very lucky. >> do you have people where it hasn't worked, where once the transition's happened they split up. >> we only know one other couple, and that have very similar circumstances to ours, and they are happily married now. >> is part of the reason that you feel able to deal with it, jennifer, is that he's happier in himself as a man than he was as a woman. >> and that affects everything. that affects our emotional connection, that affects our sex life, that affects everything. when you have a partner who is happy in their skin and happy in general, not depressed and feeling completely in the wrong body, it changes everything. >> and are you happy now or are you still slightly wrestling with what's going on? >> no, not at all.
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i'm incredibly happy and i feel really comfortable for the first time. i honestly didn't realize how difficult things were before until i had this to compare it to. >> the thing is i've never met you before, but if i didn't know the story, you look like a guy. you're dressed well in a smart suit. a big bulky suit. >> that's great, piers. >> is that a patronizing thing to say. >> that's a compliment. >> i've always felt like a guy and now i finally am able to look like a guy, too, and be a guy. so yeah, that's what it was about for me always was getting all of this on the outside to match how i felt in here. >> for you it's not being play ing sailing, there's a part of the book that you were sober when you were chastity. >> no, i was always chaz with you. >> but you got back on to the alcohol.
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why was that? >> i can't blame it solely on chaz's transition. my sobriety has been a struggle for years. it has been an off and on thing. when he told me he was going to do this i used it as a pass for myself which only an alcoholic can do. >> when you saw jennifer fall off the wagon, did it worry you that the stress of everything you put her through was now coming out in alcohol? >> actually, no. what it made me was angry really. and it was different because i think in the past i would have been, you know -- and she had in the past fallen off the wagon and i was, i was really scared and worried and what's going to happen. the difference this time that i really have had to learn to deal with the most through this is anger. and i got really angry. and i got really shut down. and it was -- and i put her through a lot.
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and it was really hard. we had to really work in therapy and everything to get back on track. >> and how are things right now? >> really good. >> very good. a year and two months sober. and, you know, things have leveled out. i feel like we might disagree on this, but i feel that his -- i don't know. i feel that his levels of testosterone his -- i make things medical advice up in my head. but i feel like his hormonal level has balanced. i feel he's adjusted more. i mean it might not be chemical. >> that's what i think it is. >> he's adapted more. >> you physically going through all that, when you get pumped full of hormones and testosterone you aren't as balanced as you like to be. >> most men, it happened when they're teenager and they have a lodge long time to get used to it. for me it happened at 40 and i had to adjust to having a new range of emotions that i didn't have before. >> we'll have a short break.
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when we come back, i want to get to the nitty-gritty. are you going to get married now. >> oh, my goodness. >> and i don't know, children? can we talk about children? >> sure. >> sure.
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draw back a little. now push in. pull out fast. okay. good, jenny. >> people think i'm a -- idiot, you know? >> sometimes, you know. >> see? it's so easy. i don't know why i've been freaking out. wouldn't let me do this for i don't know how long, six months? it's not hard. did it even hurt? >> no, it was good. perfect. >> you're on your way, kid. >> greater love, there's no woman that can do that, right? >> that's right. >> did you ever miss the female chaz? >> not so much any more. but i went through a period where i definitely did. i had to adjust to the new --
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the male chaz. i mean, in a sense of testosterone and estrogen. there was a softness that chaz had as a female that is different now as a male. >> from a technical point of view, are you now a straight guy? >> sure, yeah. >> and you can't be a lesbian any more, right? >> i'm a bisexual woman. >> you remained a bisexual woman. >> and i stayed that way. so there you go. >> do you amuse yourselves when you explain all this to people who just sort of can't get it? >> we amused dave. or he did. >> what did you think watching that? >> i thought it was great. i thought it was great. and he heard that bisexual girlfriend, he was like, oh, i don't know. forget it. you know? so i get it. you know. i suppose it can be confusing to people. we are in a straight relationship. >> yeah, so the obvious question then becomes you've been together six years now. >> six. >> will you get married? have you talked about it? >> i like to.
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will we, piers? will we get married? >> the gauntlet's been thrown down there. >> we've been engaged actually for two years. i've kind of had to put things on hold a little bit. the other thing is we both have been real -- >> i think the lady would like you to get off the -- >> she would. >> as a man, you don't have any excuse. >> no, i don't. the one thing we talked about a little bit is how we're big supporters of, you know, marriage equality. and that's kind of weird now, to be able to do that. >> are you legally now able to marry as a man and wife? >> we are, yes. >> and would you choose to do that? >> i think that we probably will and hopefully people will understand that, you know, that's something we want to do. >> before you were considering a civil partnership potentially. >> yes. >> actually, no, we really weren't, actually. >> okay. >> because it was legal for a little while in california. >> we had a window. >> we had a window. i knew at that point that i was going to transition and it just didn't feel right to me to get
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married as two women because i didn't feel i was a woman. >> seems to me that you've been using a lot of excuses to avoid taking jennifer down an aisle. and she's made it absolutely crystal clear. right? he's now behaving like a typical man. which in a way the quite comforting. is there a window here that we're talking about? >> there's no ultimatum. i mean, i'm here, we're here. we've been through a lot. >> within a year? >> yeah, it really has -- not to make excuses but we went through a lot. i transitioned, she went to grad school. then, you know, we were making the film and i wrote the book. >> i had to get sober again. it was a nightmare. >> now i feel like once this is over we can sit down and plan a wedding. >> that will be some wedding, do you think? >> i hope so. it would be nice. >> the circumstances would be remarkable, wouldn't it.
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quite a moment for you two when you stood there. >> it would be a lot. >> do you dream of a church wedding? have you ever always thought -- >> we do differ on our -- how we would like to get married. >> registry office with no one watching, big church wedding with everyone. >> i was raised catholic. >> like me. >> and i still -- i feel that i need to be married by some religious figure, a rabbi, a priest, someone, someone with a connection to god. i don't know. but -- >> yeah. >> he's not like that. >> i was never religious. i actually really want my step mom to do it. >> and that's good for me. >> which is -- it would be really special. >> perfect timing because we're about to talk to your stepmother who is another remarkable woman in your life. you pay great tribute to her in the book. we can put the question to her. >> okay. oh, my goodness. >> also nick cannon on the extraordinary tabloid scam targeting his twins with mariah
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here's anderson cooper with a preview of "ac 360."
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>> new details about the u.s. request to interview osama bin i'm back with chaz bono and his girlfriend jennifer and we're joined by chaz's stepmother. we left on a cliff hanger where i had managed to engineer what seemed to be a breaking situation about a potential marriage between the newly male chaz and jennifer. chaz was just saying that you were entitled if you want to, to act as the person that marries them. so the obvious question is would you like to do that? >> well, piers, i mean, great timing, but first, i want to commend you on being able to really make chaz feel like a man and already put the squeeze on him to hurry up and get this done. but you know, my husband told me something that's very important with marriage, and that is you can be right or you can be happy. and chaz, jenny said a church and i am so deeply honored and flattered that you would suggest me, but i think they need to work this out a little bit further rather than the pressures. i'm just deeply honored. chaz has been one of the greatest blessings in my life. i'm honored that he would make
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that request of me. >> without wishing to push this too far, congresswoman, but jennifer has expressed her wish, should we get to the stage within the year-long window that chaz has now said he will be held to and we do get to that church and you are asked formally to be the official er, would you do it? >> wow, i honestly would be deeply honored. but i really think we have to have family discussions. i don't see why i wouldn't, but being put on the spot right here to do it, i guess i feel a little more comfortable if i heard the two of them make the actual commitment and the actual ask. >> i'm managing to maneuver this to where jennifer where like it to go. let me move on away from this to something slightly more serious. i'm fascinated to hear what you think sonny bono would make of all this. chad made chaz made it clear that sonny was more tolerant than his mother was.
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would he have been equally tolerant by this turn of events? >> it's so hard to guess how sonny would have felt about this, you know, any more than anything else after he's been gone for 13 years. it is always hard to second guess him. but my hunch is that he would have been frustrated or scared or worried and all of the fears that you kind of have about this. but eventually he would have come around and done what you do and that is that you love your family. you do your very best to help them through whatever they're going through. i know that sonny loved chaz with every bone in his body, and i believe that he would have loved him no matter what. i don't believe that would have changed. >> it would be fair to say that your support for what is happening here wouldn't be massively popular with the republican party that you represent, is that an unfair thing of me to observe? >> you know, this is family. and family is so important.
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and chaz has been such a hugely important part of my life but the same token, kind of rid chaz because i'm not really popular in chaz's community either. we kind of have some fun going back and forth on that. sometimes we agree to disagree on things. but at the end of the day chaz campaigned for me when i ran as a republican running for congress. so we put our love for one another ahead of politics. >> yeah. actually, it's been an amazing experience because, i mean, mary and i have always gotten along. we love each other deeply. and it goes beyond politics. it really does. and you know, i talk about this in the book that, you know, that side of the family was so amazingly there for me. and sometimes we get in these, you know, more important to that. you can't judge books by their cover all the time. >> having said that, let me ask you, congresswoman. that's very decent of him to say
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that, but there is a political aspect to this, and there are big issues involving the whole range of gay and lesbian rights, transgender rights and so on. do you hope that the publicity surrounding chaz's story may lead to a more tolerant, dare i say, liberal attitude towards this kind of thing? >> i don't want to throw out any political terms and label anybody anything here. but i am always one who believes we can learn something from everybody's story, wherever we can hear it, that there are bits to learn and we can gain some wisdom and happiness from watching other people's stories and accepting them and trying to hear a little bit. i'll be very candid. this is a strange story and it's hard to wrap your arms around it and we're still coming to terms with it. but i love chaz deeply and chaz has always been a huge and very important part of my life and my children's life. that, you know, that's what's
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important to me here. chaz and i, i think we learned a long time ago. there was a difference between politically. but when it gets askew, we stop talking politics. it's not worth it when you're in your home. so we just don't do it. and we agree to disagree and love and laugh and that's really cool. >> love conquers all, right, chaz? >> absolutely, it does. and mary is absolutely right. with my dad we let that get in the way. when he passed away, it's like never again. and so mary and i, you know, love each other. we have, you know, and we do. if it gets a little too heated we back right off. it's our family that matters and being part of that family, and that's what's important. and i have an amazing time with that family.
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>> chaz, i think you're an amazingly courageous man. >> thank you. >> i think you're an amazingly courageous woman. >> thank you. >> and i think you've been an amazing stepmother. and the whole story i find uplifting. the fact that you're now happy and you're happy makes me happy and makes everybody happy. and if you're not happy you're a cynic and you don't deserve happiness. thank you for joining me and good luck with it all. i want to be at the wedding with my cameras recording every moment, live on cnn. fair enough? >> we've got a deal. >> get her down the aisle, chaz. that's what guys have to do. thank you both very much. >> thank you. coming up, a tabloid scam that targeted the babies. [ female announcer ] experience dual-action power,
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controversy involving mariah carey and her infant twins. already the targets of a shocking tabloid scam. nick, this is quite disturbing story today. when you were in the hospital and mariah was there, that you got set up for some sort of tabloid sting. what was going on? >> man, it's more than one incident actually.
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there's been photographers actually in the hospital posing as different people, real employees trying to get pictures of our kids, which is really sad when you think about people trying to make a buck off of newborn babies. but recently i guess there was this -- the child protective services were called with allegations that, you know, there was some drinking and drugs and all that going on while in the hospital, which, again, makes no sense to me. like how would a hospital even allow that? but it all started where a nurse suggested to my wife that if you drink guiness, a small amount of the dark beer, it improving the yeast -- or the yeast improves breastfeeding. i don't know if someone overheard that, but they were saying that my wife was drinking beer and all this stuff.
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people will do anything to try to conjure up a story. >> then someone turned ed ed up from the child protection. >> and when i spoke to the person from the child protective services, i was like, this is ridiculous, we're going to make sure this isn't a case. >> what a hornet thing to have to go through. >> my wife, in the state she's in, and we're in the hospital and to even have to think of someone possibly going to investigate your children, it's just sad at the end of the day that we have to go that far. >> is it one of the down sides of fame that you were talking about? >> it is, but then you got to understand like this is what we have to deal with. it's sad. i'm more disappointed in society more than having to be -- it's just that people would even go to those lengths to do something to a family at such a beautiful time in their life. >>