tv Piers Morgan Live CNN April 25, 2013 12:00am-1:01am PDT
this is cnn breaking news. >> this is "piers morgan live." welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world on another very important development in the boston bombings investigation. from boston to russia. first, breaking news on an apparent breakdown involving the government and suspect tamerlan tsarnaev. we know that russia warned the fbi about him. and now a government official says russia also alerted the cia about tamerlan, asking spy agencies look into his shift toward extremism. and tonight new reports the cia recommended adding tamerlan to a terrorism database. what happened next? also in dagestan, the parents of the suspects were interviewed by officials at the u.s. embassy, and the father reportedly will be flying to the u.s. as early as friday. possibly to assist in the
investigation. at the same time, we're learning more about the older brother's trip back home. cnn's nick paton walsh is in dagestan. and thousands attended the service of sean collier. and tonight some extraordinary scenes, incredible and deeply emotional sight, just a few feet from the marathon finishing line. a memorial to the victims, people leaving flowers and cards, stopping to pay tribute to the lives so brutally taken and so many who were so badly wounded. but we're covering this story around the world tonight with nick paton walsh in dagestan. jake, i want to start with you. a day of increasing revelation, really, about a collective board dropping by the cia. >> reporter: that's right. cnn learned not only the fsb, the russian equivalent -- the successor to the kgb, not only did the russian fsb reach out to the fbi in 2011 and ask them to keep an eye on tamerlan tsarnaev and look into who he was, and
whether he was an extremist, but the cia also heard from the fsb. and there are also all of these questions now about different watch lists that tamerlan tsarnaev was put on. and how come the system pinged for the department of homeland security when he went over to russia to chechnya. but it didn't ping when he came back. a lot of questions from congress for the intelligence agencies. you know, piers, taxpayers pay hundreds of billions of dollars for a very expensive and thorough national security apparatus in this country. but i think we're seeing that still has a lot of kinks that need to be worked out. piers. >> right, and we've got some clips, i think, of john kerry, joe biden and jay carney. talk me through them. because a lot of conflicting messages being sent by some of the top people in the american government.
>> reporter: yeah. they sure are. what you're going to hear from -- you're going to hear secretary of state john kerry talking about his views on the tamerlan tsarnaev, and whether or not he was trained overseas or domestically. then you're going to hear vice president biden and how he characterizes the tsarnaev brothers. take a listen. >> a young person who went to russia and chechnya who blew people up in boston. so he didn't stay where he went but learned something where he went and came back with a willingness to kill people. >> why? people say to me, they surely know they can never defeat us. they can never overthrow us. they can never occupy us. so why? why whether it's al qaeda central out of the flatta or two twisted perverted, cowardly knockoff jihadists in boston. why do they do what they do?
>> i think what's cowardly, and it was terrorism. but -- >> seems to indicate he doesn't believe they're connected to a large, foreign -- >> i'm sorry. you're making assessments that i'm not going to -- engage in. >> so piers, what you have there is the secretary of state suggesting that tamerlan tsarnaev was trained in chechnya. although the state department walked that comment back and said that the secretary of state was not specifically referring to tamerlan tsarnaev, but was referring in general to extremists who go abroad and are trained abroad. you can believe that or not. then you have vice president biden describing them as knockoff jihadis, which seem to suggest they were, as we have heard from other intelligence sources, self radicalized.
that they were not affiliated with an outside group. and then you have jay carney at the white house suggesting that that interpretation i just shared is not necessarily the correct interpretation. you have a lot of different conflicting messages coming from the administration about the details of this case. i think it reflects, to be generous, the fact that there is a lot of uncertainty about what exactly is going on, and i -- there was a lot of clean-up that had to be done by state department officials and jay carney about the comments made by the principles, mr. biden and mr. kerry. piers? >> you're being more generous than i am. i think the whole thing has descended into outright chaos here and at the center of it, you clearly have russia making a series of warnings to the fbi and the cia will somebody who then blows up the boston marathon. they can talk their way around the houses about this, but that's what we're left with, isn't it, jay? >> reporter: obviously, the russians were concerned, otherwise they wouldn't have
reached out. and according to intelligence official i spoke with last week, and reported, i believe, on your show, it's rare that russia reaches out and asks the u.s. to look into a specific individual. it happens all the time with other countries. but russia does not do it. now, there is this other broader context, piers, that u.s. officials are generally skeptical of the way the russians regard the chechens when it comes to that war and think they're trying to make the u.s. regard be u.s. enemies and u.s. officials don't want to do that. so maybe that skepticism had something to do with how seriously this request by the russian fsb was taken. we still don't know. >> jay, thank you very much, indeed. as the investigation moves forward, so does boston. tonight, the site of the attack is open again, deb feyerick joins us live from boylston street. deb, pretty emotional down there tonight, it seems. >> reporter: you know, it's been very emotional. it's been very emotional all day. and a number of people are
coming simply leaving flowers and hats and stuffed animals, notes, cards. the primary message is, you will be remembered, we will not forget. we're in this all together. and you know, there was a very -- so interesting, when you look all around, you can see, even behind the windows of the building were blown out back there. investigators, forensic experts have been working this scene, this was a crime scene until today. and they removed windows, removed doors, even removed a tree they think one of the suspects may have touched. this is really where tamerlan tsarnaev left his backpack. and we spoke to a couple of girls who came back -- they were standing right here, and they were amazed at the twist of fate that allowed them to escape uninjured, while others were not so lucky. take a listen, piers. >> it feels like it didn't happen. sometimes it feels like it's all in our head and that we're going crazy. because it doesn't make sense that we were standing right there, and we're here and we're
alive and safe and we're going to be okay. >> reporter: and the description they gave, one thing that's very frustrating to them, they can't really remember. it was almost a blur. they thought the blast had come up from below and all of a sudden they said it felt for like five to ten seconds they were just paralyzed, they can't move and then things started coming into focus. but not so much what was going on, but shapes and colors, and they saw people who had fallen and people who were wounded, and one of the girls said, you know, by remarkable twist of fate, it was the girl next to her who was badly injured while she just got really a couple of pieces of shrapnel in her leg. so they're coming back, and they're clearly still so emotional. i asked them, what now. what next? and they said, you know, they've got to remember their life before this happened. this will bring -- this attack has brought the city together, has brought friends together, strangers together. but what they will remember is just what their life was like before and try to get it back on
track, piers. >> deb feyerick, thank you very much. important to note, over 40 people remain in hospital with pretty serious injuries from that bomb. still extraordinary that so few died. halfway around the world, new details about an extremist who may have influenced tamerlan. nick paton walsh has the story. the story seems to be focusing on what tamerlan tsarnaev got up to when he was in russia. what happened in dagestan. did he go to chechnya, is that relevant, or was this all centered, perhaps around some radical extremists he met when he was in dagestan? >> reporter: you're right, piers. we don't actually know tamerlan tsarnaev met with radical extremists. we know from his youtube channel, he posted a link to a video of a now dead dagestani extremist called abu dujan, the local almost islamist mafia warlord to a degree, a group of
militants who today i spoke to police about. they showed me video of them in the words training with weapons, dressed in camouflage, learning how to make explosives through videos. one photograph of how you would construct a mobile phone-based detonator for a bomb. the police chief also said to us this particular militant group had foreigners working with it who came here to learn. he said it included arabs and turks, to quote him directly there. and i said, could it have included an american, and he couldn't exclude that. he also said it may include people of dagestani origin who went to live abroad. so interesting potential for overlap there. but at this point, no clarity whether the two met or not. we also understand that abu dujan was a regular attendee of a mosque in the heart where i'm talking to you from. this mosque also relatives have suggested may have been attended
by tamerlan tsarnaev last year. so no concrete of him speaking. the link from the youtube channel to the video of abu dujan, which does suggest at least tamerlan tsarnaev had an interest in a militant who lived in the same town as his father last year, piers. >> we know his father is coming over to america, possibly as soon as friday. we thought his mother was, but that seems unlikely now. what is the investigators' view of these parents? because they have both got asylum out of dagestan and then go back there. do we read anything sinister into their activities? >> reporter: incredibly itinerant parents and family. when i spoke to the mother, she was generous in her comments about the american government. perhaps they feel the refuge they got there in the united states earlier and last decade was something to deeply
appreciate. they seem to have come back here. it seems last year. we heard from the aunt, because the father was badly ill and thought he may want, in her words, to be buried here. and then the mother came back at a later stage, almost switched out with tamerlan, to continue looking after the father. so it's very hard to put motivation between this globe trotting they often seem to do. but it does seem they came back here. we don't know if it's that's connected with the mother in terms of charges she may have been facing in the united states. a complicated picture, certainly. but investigators, i'm sure, will be poring over the parents to try and work out what they could tell them about the six months tamerlan spent here. we know he arrived in january. we know he met his aunt, only, in march. he was with his father at their house by may. but there are still gaps at the beginning of his trip. we don't know where he was the entire time while he was here, piers. >> nick paton walsh, thank you very much indeed. let's get to the second intelligence break --
bombing suspect. what happened. adam schiff. what is going on here. has this been a massive ball dropped collectively by the fbi and now the cia? >> piers, i don't think people should leap to that conclusion. both because i don't think we have seen the evidence that that is in fact what happened. and because the investigation is still very early. when the fbi got this information from the russians, they went out, did an interview, did a pretty thorough look at this subject of the russian concern. they then went back to the russians and said we haven't been able to find anything. what have you got? give us some guidance here. the russians didn't respond, went back to them a couple more times and got no further information from the russians. so what they did check out, they weren't able to verify in any way. and i don't think that should lead us to conclude that somehow the fbi dropped the ball. also, these claims that there were multiple requests by
multiple -- by the russian government to multiple agencies, from what i gather, there were only two requests, and if they were not identical, they were nearly identical. so i think people should avoid this rush to judgment of a bureau that frankly has been doing spectacular work in the investigation since the event. and i haven't seen an indication yet they failed to do the work they should have before the event. >> senators mccain requesting the -- hold a hearing to this. it seemed to me there were plenty of grounds to at the very least have an inquiry. >> absolutely. i think homeland security should. and the intelligence committee investigations have really just begun. both who get at what did we know about these brothers beforehand, what might we have done differently, what do we need to adjust in the future. but also the broader problem, which is we are seeing this increase in self radicalization. i don't know, frankly, what would be more troubling, piers, whether the brother went to chechnya, was radicalized there, or, in fact, he was radicalized
at home. that's almost a bigger problem to deal with. and what we may have to confront while we dependent immune from the problems europe has experienced with increasing alienation and radicalization of some of their immigrant community, we may be seeing i am impacts here at home. >> congressman schiff, thank you. coming up, what went on to tracking the suspect. and the family of a missing brown university student wrongly accused of being one of the bombing suspects. what's this one do? i dunno. ♪every rose has it's thorn score planner is free to everyone. free score applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com bret michaels slider still in beta.
al qaeda factor," mitch silva director for international peace and cnn contributor, bob baer. bob, let me come to you. we have talked almost every night about this. from the point of view of the fbi, perhaps, dropping the ball. now the cia appear to have also been warned about tamerlan tsarnaev. what do you read into this? has there been a fairly catastrophic intelligence failure here? >> it's systemic, absolutely. there is no other way to describe it, as a failure. immigrations didn't tell the fbi he was leaving. immigrations didn't tell the fbi that he was coming back. we don't know what the cia told the fbi. but two warnings from russian intelligence, you don't ignore. the fsb, the svr, two main russian intelligence services, don't like the united states. they don't provide tactical intelligence. and when they do, you had better listen. this is not a case of politicized intelligence, which would have occurred if it was a chechen leader living in the
united states. there are a couple or one in the gulf. yes, they do try to frame them. but simply a man of 26 years old, they had something firm in order to come to the united states. and that was ignored by the system. and we do need congressional hearings, because we should have gotten over this after 9/11. the stove piping has gone on. there is an inability to have a unified database that people are actually looking at this and are forced to act when a red flag goes up, like going back to dagestan, going back to the front. >> right. mitch silva, if you take the basic facts we now know and this is monday morning quarterbacking, i know. but they're still facts. we now have this 26-year-old who has been reported by the russians to the fbi, and the cia as a potential threat in america and in russia. and a number of warnings. none of which are acted on. then he goes back to dagestan for six months, he's married with a young kid. and just disappears.
all of this put together looks deeply suspicious. and then he goes and blows up the boston marathon. this is pretty shocking, isn't it? it is to me. >> it is. i mean, for a u.s. intelligence and law enforcement, the fact that he went outbound to russia, dagestan, generally that's a difficult thing to detect. the actually moving outbound of someone going overseas. however, it's the return back to the united states that's really -- that's the moment when the red flag should have gone up. if he had been identified previously by the fsb, and that information had gotten to the u.s. intelligence community, when he came back, when he hit customs and borders at logan airport or wherever it may have been, at that point he should have been pulled aside and members of the jttf should have been brought in to interview and find out what happened while you were away for six months. that's a long time to be in russia and dagestan. >> and certainly is. let's turn to you, matthew, you're an expert in this area.
originally all the focus was on chechnya, but it may be the fact that they are of chechen ethnicity, it could all be focused on dagestan and extremists there. >> yeah, i think that's right, piers. it's not only dagestan, though. it's the entire north caucuses region. and if you look more broadly virtually into the russian internet, it's the space in which russian muslims who make up about a fifth of russia's population, so you're talking about tens of millions of people, many of whom are disgruntled with the way that russia has treated russian minorities, they create the type of content we're hearing over and over now was in the youtube playlist of both the tsarnaev brothers. and when you're physically on the ground of the front as one of your guests said, i think the opportunity to be inspired by that, even if not yet radicalized, is quite real. >> in terms of the kind of terror that goes on in dagestan, we heard earlier this character called abu dujan has since died, died last december.
but certainly he would have been around and operational at the time that tamerlan tsarnaev was in dagestan. and clearly up to all sorts of terrorist activities, including using foreign people and these forest training camps and so on. it almost is reminiscent of al qaeda in afghanistan, isn't it? so it's quite -- likely, i would say, to surmise that tamerlan has been hooking up with people, at least affiliated to this character. >> you could imagine a number of scenarios. the fact of the matter is always going to be the russians would have known more or at least would have had the opportunity to uncover more when he was on their soil, he was speaking their language, he was among their citizens, and they absolutely have assets on the ground in dagestan, you would expect them to do. the question is, what did the russians convey to the united states, was the broader relationship in a place where that information would have actually been listened to. irrespective of the stove piping questions.
were we even in a place politically where we were going to take warnings from russia seriously or say this is your problem, it's not our problem and were they going to do the same thing. i think that's the big problem in 2012, the relationship was a mess. >> bob baer, we now know that apparently these devices at the boston marathon were set off using a remote very similar to a toy remote. when you put that together with the pressure cooker, which we know has been talked about a lot on al qaeda magazines and so on, and you talk about the way they have constructed these devices, the way they have set them off, the very casual manner they stayed around to watch their handiwork. putting it all together, these are not novices, are they, or at least the older brother is not a novice. >> no. i mean, piers, look, you don't set off that many explosions without having tested this stuff. it's just a fact. you talk to anybody who deals with it. yes, you can make one bomb, you can blow up a toaster at home
with a cell phone. yes. on and on and on. it's all sort of hollywood fantasy. but when you're you said fire, a running gun battle and throwing explosives out of a car, lighting them with a cigarette lighter, with i don't know how they lit them. and these things go off, it just doesn't happen. unless you've had some sort of experience, or you've been in a combat area. the special forces will tell you that most people freeze when shooting starts. these people didn't. they ran, they moved. they evaded. they held back a police pursuit. they had some sort of either ice water running through their blood or some sort of experience. >> right. mitch silva, would you go along with that? it certainly seems to me that these are people who have had either very good training or they just are unbelievably freakishly good at getting information from the internet. but you've got to say the former is the more realistic, isn't it? >> well, you know, "inspire" magazine had a specific issue devoted to how to make a device out of a pressure cooker. and, in fact, here in new york city, back in november of 2011,
we had an individual follow that recipe to a t. and in his apartment in hamilton heights, the upper west side was building a bomb in the kitchen of his uncle, per se. and that bomb was going to be a pipe bomb. and essentially, you know, following the same type of recipe that the two brothers might have followed. so they may not have had experience overseas, but they probably did test it out somewhere else. we have seen other examples where zazi was going to attack the subway in 2009, he experimented in a hotel room in colorado, how to make a hydrogen peroxide device. individuals want to try this out beforehand, before they launch their plot. >> well, let's take a short break. when we come back, let's try and drop some more dots in boston and see if there is a connection there to tamerlan tsarnaev's radicalization and that of his younger brother. we'll talk about this mysterious character, misha, after the break. u 8
dzhokhar tsarnaev indicates he and his brother were self radicalized jihadists, but some think outside influences were to blame. joining me is mitch silva. also matthew rojansky and bob baer. let me go to you, matthew. one of the problems now, you've had this terrible atrocity in boston. will the russian authorities be that keen to try and establish this could all have been predicated by activity in
dagestan? >> i think the last thing the russian authorities are likely to do at this point is to reveal whether it's true or whether it's simply speculation that something could have been done on their part to stop the attack. i think it's much wiser from the russian perspective now to simply look forward and say, look, we'll help you unravel and investigate what actually happened. if that means they've got to conceal opportunities they had they indeed missed or they intentionally suppressed, i think they're going to do that. but looking forward, i do think it's in the russian interests, as well as the u.s. interest to ensure that we're talking and sharing intelligence. that, after all, was the whole point of reset back in 2009 that officials ought to talk to each other, because we're on the same side of a lot of these important problems. >> right. but it seems to me the russians were trying to talk to the american authorities but weren't getting very far. mitch silva, if it isn't the case of tamerlan tsarnaev going back home to dagestan, getting into bed with messy terrorist-related people, and
then coming back with his new tricks and blowing up the marathon, if it turns out that he and his brother were self radicalized right in the middle of boston, what is that going to send as a message to the american people going forward? >> i think it's a very disconcerting message. i think most americans, since 9/11, when they think of terrorism, they think of it as a threat that emerges from overseas. so the idea that two individuals may not have linked up with anyone overseas may only have radicalized via the internet, that is an issue that raises a lot of issues. number one, from an intelligence perspective, how do you detect that? the signals for that are very faint. and if the signals are very faint and law enforcement is going to have a tough time detecting that, what does that mean from a civil liberties perspective? how deep is the american public going to allow intelligence agencies and law enforcement to try and detect it before we have a boston type event?
>> bob baer, this mysterious misha, the family friend of the tsarnaevs, the two brothers family insist was more to do with the radicalizing of tamerlan, he's of armenian descent, recent convert to islam, encouraged tamerlan to quit boxing, could this be a complete red herring, or could there be some merit to the argument that it was somebody like that over here that radicalized this young man's head? >> i think that almost inevitably it's a combination of the internet, reading the newspapers and some sort of influence of somebody who has been through this and thought through it and talked about the justice of it. i think all of these cases, there's some -- it's either a cleric or somebody who has really thought through things. and, you know, and then go back to dagestan. i mean, the -- what are the chances of him showing up, going to the mosque, and not finding somebody who shared his views?
i think if you're in the middle of a conversion like this, you reach out and want to talk to people. you want to confirm your opinions. who would have -- may not have known about boston, but certainly had encouraged him to follow the path of jihad. i think -- i don't think we can just say he stated his father's place and had no contact with these people. it's just not likely. >> matthew rojansky, the russian rebels are quick to distance themselves with this, saying our quarrel is with russia, not america. but there presumably would be elements of their rebellious force who wouldn't mind destabilizing america in some way. >> no question. you have to remember, coming out of the 1990s, actually most of chechnya was quite convinced the united states was fully backing the russians in committing the atrocities in the course of that war. and likewise, frankly, despite
the deating relationship between the last decade, the belief is the west is backing putin as he engages in heavy handed repressions in the so-called insurgency period of the war. all of that would have been a part of a received narrative that both of the tsarnaev brothers, but in particular the older brother, who would have been a little bit more aware while this was happening, would have gotten from family and friends, as well as from internet, videos and things like that. so it makes them as individuals, at the very at least, it's very clear, psychologically, these guys are vulnerable to that type of radicalization as part of their identity. it sort of is who they are, what they have inherited. >> thank you all very much indeed. coming up, my exclusive interview with the family of the missing brown university student falsely accused of being one of the boston bombers. his brother and sister join me next.
new development tonight in the search for a missing brown university student, falsely labeled as being up with of the boston suspects. sunil tripathi, vanished in march. his brother suspect sister. thank you so much to both of you for joining me. what must be an incredibly difficult day after a very difficult week for you. first, let me start with this development.
a body has been found in the providence river. do either of you know whether that maye rother >> first, thanks for having us. and as of right now, those are all unconfirmed reports and that's as much as we know, unfortunately. >> it's obviously been a harrowing few weeks, he disappeared on march the 16th. do you have any idea yet, from all of the inquiries, investigations you've established? and i'll show some of the video you made about the search. have you any idea what may have happened to him or why he disappeared? >> our family and friends have been working tirelessly, night and day, looking everywhere for him, getting the word out, alongside the police-led investigation. and we have just been looking and working everywhere, and just praying that sunil is okay. >> there have been reports that he suffered from depression. is that true? >> he never was clinically diagnosed.
but his close family and friends -- we definitely knew he was having some problems, you know, with his mood. and we -- it kind of bound us together. we all came and communicated with him as much as possible, and both our nuclear family and extended family had extensive contact with him, which is part of what makes this disappearance just so troublesome for us. and so unknown. >> what's made it so much worse for you as a family is that his name was linked in the last week to the boston bombings, without any reason whatsoever. he had nothing to do with it. i want to play before we get into it, i want to play the video you've put together as a family, a clip from this, to establish the kind of man that he is. ♪ >> i miss you. >> give us a call.
>> sunil. >> i want you back. >> i love you so much. >> i love you. >> hey, sunny, we miss you. >> you are incredibly missed. >> hey, sunny, my second year classes are over. can't wait to tell you about it. >> hey, dude. >> we miss you. >> it's been gathering huge traction on social media, twitter, facebook, and so on. in the middle of this last week, suddenly this appalling news slur on your brother that he may have been one of the boston suspects. what was your reaction when you heard what was happening on social media, was driving it? >> yeah, it was incredibly painful for our family. this was coming at a time after 34 days of pain in our family and worry. and we, you know, knew unconvincingly that this was not sunil, especially when we saw all of the video footage and surveillance that was being released. we were absolutely sure. and it was just very difficult
to have the events of that night unfold so aggressively with language that was not based on any actual evidence at all. >> they were calling your brother a bomber, weren't they? >> they were. there was a lot of language on social media. there was also a lot of language on regular media. and, you know, it just really reminded us of how powerful these platforms are and how much hurt they can do when they're not linked to evidence. it was just a very difficult night. it was a very difficult night for our family and friends. >> right. i heard your mother was taking 50, 60 calls in the middle of the night, all from media wanting information. you know, really hard-core activity by the media, trying to establish if your brother was one of these suspects. purely from internet traction and rumor that he looked like one of them. >> i think that's one of the most troubling things for us is there was no evidence of anything, other than someone sit taking computer looking at
blurry images released by the fbi and sunil's pictures and saying, oh, this must be the guy. and it was -- it was an incredibly hard night between 3:00 and 6:00 a.m. we as a family received literally hundreds of phone calls. and it was very -- as well as watching our facebook page we have been helping coordinate our search just get plastered with these baseless allegations. >> the horrible irony is you had been using social media so effectively to try and find out what happened to him, and then this medium that has been so useful to you suddenly became an implement of real torture for you and your family. >> it's true. in the first week after we set up the page, we had over a quarter million views, and people were using it to download flyers for sunil, to do many, many different things to organize our efforts. it's very difficult for our family, we're a very private family. it was very difficult to be so public with sunil's story and
with our lives. but we knew we needed the public and we needed everybody. and it was hard to see the other end of that spectrum through the course of that night. and we really just tried to stay focused and support each other. and the next morning when the fbi released the names of the two suspects, we came back strong, unfroze our facebook page, and really tried to redirect all of that negative energy back to, you know, a more productive way forward. that's a little more sensitive to how fragile our communities and our country and our families are. >> ravi, we have to obviously all hope and pray the body that was found in the river is not of that sunil. if it is not he, and he is still out there somewhere, and by chance maybe watching this interview right now, what would you like to say? >> well, i would say to him we love him, and we miss him greatly. and we are now again using our social media to try to encourage people to lend messages of
support to him by taking a pict their hand, taking a picture of it. and uploading it to our facebook page, and we're hoping this support will keep us going. >> and piers, we would love to ask you yourself, you know, you have been covering a lot of pain through the course of the past week and a half in boston. we would love you to -- if there is a marker or a pen somewhere near your hands, to take one minute, write a word or two on your hands, whether to people in the northeast, our family, sunil, anyone that needs a hand, and just sort of give that energy back. this is really where we're trying to send our messages and our spirits moving forward. >> and help us bring everybody together, our communities together to be supportive of one another. >> i will get a marker pen and do that for you before we come off air. that would be my great pleasure. >> thank you, piers. >> i hope you just get good news about the discovery of this body that it isn't your brother. i hope he turns up and you can reunited with him. it has to be an agonizing time
for all of you. and compounded by the misery of people accusing him of being a bomber when he had nothing to do with it. thank you both for joining. i really do appreciate it. >> thank you, piers. >> thank you very much, piers. next i talk to a lawmaker refusing to apologize of comparing pressure cookers to guns. #%tia[
before we get to our next guest, i said i'd do this for the couple i just had on for their brother, sunil. it just says find sunil. and i hope they're able to. a senator is standing firm about a joke he made about assault pressure cookers. he's been criticized for making the joke so soon after the boston bombings. stacy canfield joins me now. why did you do this? >> pointing out the hypocrisy of the left, how they push for gun control ten seconds after sandy hook shooting. when something else happens, they refuse to say, it's not an inanimate object it's the person. when people go on and say, we have to get rid of guns, push for gun control, it's ridiculous, it's like pushing for pressure cooker control after the explosion. >> what other things can you do
with a pressure cooker other than kill people? >> you can cook food. >> what can you do with a gun other than shoot things? >> other than shooting. i guess you can use it as a walking stick. you can hunt with it, target practice, all sorts of things. >> you can use a gun as a walking stick? >> i guess theoretically, you could. you could use it as a hammer if you wanted to. we're talking about an inanimate object that does nothing by itself. now that gun control has failed, i'm wondering, when are you going to move to england. everyone in tennessee is dying to know. >> i'm going to hang around and see if people can't grow fluff courage in this country to face the reality of your gun violence problem. >> you don't think it's insensitive to be cracking jokes about pressure cookers when so
many people were seriously wounded or killed? >> the joke was about the left and how they push for gun control on inanimate objects. like pushing for -- i mean, spoon control for obesity. >> you're likening spoons to guns? >> well, i'm likening it into the impossibility of controlling someone's actions because they're thinking their actions are controlled by inanimate objects. >> you're comparing the slaughter of 20 children in sandy hook with an ar-15 assault rifle. or the murderous activities of these two people to a spoon. is that what you're telling me. >> people who like yourself who try to perpetrate a gun, an inanimate object is what killed the people, instead of saying it was the person with the gun, is similar to someone saying, a bomb killed someone, instead of
a person who constructed a bomb and blew it up. >> do you believe that the answer to gun violence is that more people should be armed? >> that's physically what's always proven to be the case. usually where you have gun control, places like south side of chicago, new york city, that's where your highest gun crimes are. it's proven time and again, any time you get rid of guns, violent crime goes up. >> your answer to what -- presumably your answer to what happened in boston is that more people should carry bombs around, is it? >> well, i don't have a problem? like i said, you're not going to be able to stop violence by getting rid of the inanimate object. you're not going to get rid of criminals are still going to have guns. >> that wasn't my question. >> my point is, if you believe the answer to gun violence is more guns. >> guns are already illegal. aren't they illegal? >> you think the only way to deal with this is more guns -- the whole point -- guns are illegal. the whole point of the gun control campaign wasn't to grab
your guns or anybody else's guns, it was to try to make military -- >> it was to try to do like australia did. the exact same thing. >> they took everybody's guns away. >> so you're in favor of taking everyone's guns away? >> it's a buyback. are you aware of what a buyback is? >> are you in favor of taking everyone's guns away? >> no, i'm not in favor of taking anyone's guns away, i'm not. i've never said that. it's a complete lie. you. >> like the australia plan? >> i do. they have not had a single mass shooting since 1996 when they brought in their gun control measures. >> you know, wait. there hasn't been a single mass shooting in anywhere but gun free zones in the last 50 years, except for one, gabby giffords, if you're looking for gun free zone success stories, there aren't any. actually, they have the opposite effect.
>> why don't you come back on after the next mass shooting and you can tell me -- come back on after the next mass shooting and explain to me again how jubilant you are that your country brought in not a single gun control measure. not even background checks. you people don't even want to have a check on who sells a gun -- >> they don't work. the criminals are going to get the guns. >> it's complete and utter lunacy. >> it doesn't work. >> there will be another mass shooting. it will be done to people like you. that's all for tonight.
breaking news tonight on money front, both here and overseas. scrambling to learn who turned tamerlan tsarnaev to radical islam. they are grappling at home with the grim possibility, i do want to stress it's just a possibility now that they may have dropped the ball. two potential red flags, one to the fbi and one to the cia. they mishandled and opportunities they missed that might have prevented this tragedy. we have new reporting on all of that to you.