tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN May 8, 2013 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
show, "talking points." >> candy, thank you very much. we're going to have a lot more on this. all the day's other news throughout the evening here on cnn. i'm wolf blitzer in washington. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. two breaking stories, a verdict announced at the jodi arias trial. we'll tell what you happened in the courtroom today and what she's facing tomorrow. plus, two of the women held captive for ten years in ohio return home today. new late-breaking details on how the suspect allegedly kept them chained literally and figuratively and how they ultimately escaped. and police have just released dispatch reportings from the moment the police entered the home where the women were held. we're going to let you hear exactly what happened. let's go "outfront."
>> good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett. we're following two breaking stories. a slam dunk case. that's what the police source close to the cleveland missing women investigation tells cnn about the evidence against 52-year-old aerial castro who kept three women in his home against their will for a decade. castro has been charged with rape, kidnapping. we're going to go to cleveland because we have late-breaking details on how these women were kept in this home and unable to escape. and it is just incredible when you hear this. the emotional homecoming of the two women today. one of them not home yet. we have that for you. first, though, i want to go to phoenix. that's where jodi arias is found guilty of first-degree murder in a trial watched around the world after more than 15 hours of deliberations. a jury of eight men and four women convicted the 32-year-old of kill her former boyfriend travis alexander in 2008. arias is going to begin the next phase of the trial, sentencing. and she could face the death
penalty. the verdict was read to a packed courtroom as hundreds of spectators, people just came to the phoenix courthouse to watch this just a short time ago. >> state of arizona versus jod e ari arias, verdict, count one. we the jury do duly impanelled and sworn in the above entitled action upon our oath do find the defendant as to count one first-degree murder guilty. >> that's where cnn's ashleigh banfield and senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin are tonight. jodi arias found guilty of premeditated murder of her boyfriend. this trial went on for four months, more than four months. the defendant took the stand in what seems to be a record 18 days of this country. why so much time and focus? >> well, it doesn't get more serious than this, erin. death penalty case and let's be clear, the circumstances and the fact pattern in this case were really grizzly. and there was a lot to get through. not only that, but jodi arias
had changed her story so many times the prosecutors had a uphill battle to make sure that they covered every single element that they needed to. it went back to '08 whether that murder happened in mesa, arizona. jodi arias crawled through a door in his home and brutally murdered him and then left and pretended as though nothing had happened. in fact, went on a date within hours of that grisly murder. she even left a voice mail for him after she murdered him pretending nothing was wrong. up until that point, the stories that she had told about why she had done certain things that were so clear to this jury at least of a premeditated plan to kill him, she lied consistently. she lied when she met the police for the first time. she lied when the police confronted her with evidence against her the second time. she lied a third time to this courtroom suggesting she was a battered woman who acted in self-defense. this jury wasn't buying any of it. what they knew was that the
prosecutor told them, they believed to be true was what the prosecutor told them. that jodi put a bunch of gas cans in her car, drove throughout the night, turned the plates up side down on a rental car, crawled into that residence and stabbed him 27 times, slit his throat from ear to ear and shot him above the right eye. >> i mean it's just -- just hearing it is incredibly gruesome. jeff, was there any surprise in the verdict? when this was happening, i know you and ash lie were standing there talking about the other cases. the public expected a guilty verdict. i'm thinking of examples like casey anthony, o.j. simpson. and, yet, juries did not return that verdict. did this surprise you today that it was so clear cut? >> no. this was such an overwhelming case. when you look at the magnitude of the injuries, when you look at jodi arias's conduct, undisputed conduct before these acts of premeditation, after all the lies, plus the brutality of
the crime, i think any verdict other than a conviction for first-degree murder would have been a big surprise. >> all right. thank you both very many. it just -- so important to hear ash leigh go through this. jeff said wasn't surprised. yet this trial went on months and months. and it did captivate the nation and viewers around the world. there were 38 witnesses including arias herself who spent an incredible 18 days on the stand in her own defense. i want to bring in criminal defense attorney mark geragos and wendy murphy to take a look at what exactly happened in this case. you know, taking the stand for 18 days, i guess the big question is, mark, was this a mistake, the length of time or perhaps even putting her on the stabbed to begin with? >> not at all. look, the idea of comparing this case to casey anthony is ludicrous, frankly. i mean i don't -- i understand the people expected that oh, my god it could have been a not guilty. there was never any expectation by anybody who was sane or had
any connection with the criminal justice system that this was going to be a not guilty. this was an overwhelming prosecution case. what the defense was doing was trying to save her life and i still think that ultimately maybe putting her on the stand may save her life. remember, there was still a split today on that jury question on the verdict which was five votes for the premeditation, seven votes for premeditation and felony murder. there is a split there. the fact that, you know, usually familiarity breeds contempt n this case, they may not want to put her to death. all it takes is one person not to do it. >> unanimity required for the death penalty. jodi arias did not lack confidence. i think part of what captivated people watching this is her and her performance. take a look at her bold prediction she made while she went on the show "inside edition." >> no jury is going to convict me. >> why not? >> because i'm innocent. and can you mark my words on that one. no jury will convict me.
>> wendy, how much did that attitude hurt her? >> oh, i think hurt her a lot. i didn't see it as confident. i saw it as arrogance. when you pile that up with all the lies, it was, i think, easy to find her guilty, frankly. because she took the stand. i gr we mark. there was no question this was going to be the result. because she took the stand and she had no choice because this was a complete, you know, prosecution slam dunk, she had no -- there is no reason not to testify. it wasn't going to get worse. she was going to be found guilty no matter what. but because she took the stand and lied to the jury, they, i think, came back with a vengeance. a jury can forgive somebody who lies to the police and takes the fifth amendment and then changes the story at some point. but lying to the jury to their faces and doing it in a way that so manipulative of their emotions, i think that was what really brought the hammer down and made them really hate her.
she only had two things going for her, erin. and they weren'ted ofry. she had her looks. she doesn't look like charles manson am she looks cute. she doesn't look like a killer and she had porn. she turned the courtroom into a salacious series of stuff that didn't work and i don't think it was ever going to. >> let me play some of. this you defended high profile people, scott peterson is an example. let me play what happened to her boyfriend during the interrogation. so here's one version from jodi arias. >> i witnessed travis being attacked by two other individuals. >> who? >> i don't know who they were. i couldn't pick them out in a police lineup. no jury is going to convict me. >> why not? >> because i'm innocent. you can mark my words on that one. >> that's how that went. so she said -- she saw the two other people do it. then during the trial -- here's what she said. >> did you kill travis alexander on june 4th, 2008?
>> yes, i did. >> why? >> the simple answer is that he attacked me. i defended myself. >> all right. so she's lying left and right. you're saying there is no way she could have been convicted. why did this last more than four months? >> well, look, it's because it's a death penalty case and the death penalty machinery in the u.s. is irretrievebly broken. and this is a perfect example of it. if you're the defense lawyer, you have to do everything possible because otherwise you're going to go to whatever layers of appeal. you're going to be called incompetent, ineffective and everything else. and this is why it's just silly to go through what we go through in the death penalty here in america. >> which is a fascinating point. all right. thanks very much to both of you. we appreciate it. we're going to tack much more about the death penalty and whether that is going to be the inevitable outcome here or not. still to come, more breaking news coverage of the jodi arias vird inside the courtroom at the moment that verdict was read and the faces of the jury who had sat there for so many months.
and the sentencing phase of the trial does begin tomorrow. so this death penalty or not, it is the question. and we're going it get an answer to it after this. and a man believed to have held three women captive in ohio in custody today. all business purchases. so you can capture your receipts, and manage them online with jot, the latest app from ink. so you can spend less time doing paperwork. and more time doing paperwork. ink from chase. so you can.
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the sentencing phase starts tomorrow. now she could face death by lethal injection. casey was in the courtroom when that verdict was read. what was it like at that moment? i saw jodi arias herself give a quick gasp of emotion. you were there and able to look at the family members of travis alexander, at the jurors themselves, at jodi arias. what did you see? >> well, contrast to the reaction that jodi arias displayed on camera, that brief sigh that, effort to hold back tears. travis alexander's family and supporters of travis alexander's family made no effort to hold back emotion. they were sobbing with relief, sobbing with joy, if i can say. i heard i'm so happy. yes! thank god! lots of tears of relief. what was really interesting to me though was seeing the reaction of the jurors. i was standing in the third row of the courtroom, the jurors as they left the courtroom walked not more than ten feet in front of me. i looked at each one of them, looked at their faces.
they were all stoic. showed no reaction at all. and perhaps that's because they've got so much work ahead of them over the next day or maybe days. erin? >> all right, casey wynan, thank you very much. day or days, that is the penalty phase he's referring to of the jodi arias case. it is set to begin tomorrow around 1:00 local time, arizona time. arias is now looking at three possible sentencing scenarios. one is death by injection, the other is life in prison without parole. the third is life with possible parade, up to 25 years. "outfront" tonight, a defense attorney, michael jackson's lead defense attorney and paul you could cowen. will the jury give her the death penalty? in air erat way it works, you get the verdict and then go to the aggravation phase. they have to decide unanimously that this murder was especially cruel, stabbed 27 times, throat slit, shot, seems like it would
pass that. it must be unanimous. then unanimous on the death penalty. >> if you impose the death penalty this is the poster child for it because the cruelty of the act, as you said, 27 times, almost decapitated him. he was naked in the shower. so i mean -- what was he throwing a bar of soap at her? she's going to have a hard time putting up self-defense since she can't remember what happened. so then you get so what we call mitigating circumstances. well, what are they? what is she going to say? she was abused by her father og smr? the jury didn't buy her story. they could have given her a -- you know, they could have come in with second-degree murder or manslaughter. it's not looking too good for her. >> tom, what do you think? they could just have one mitigating circumstance or one juror who says don't go with death and they could still go the way of death. what about you? >> it's a very tough case to
defend. i think these defenz lawyese la have been setting up their position for penalty from day one. they had her on the stand for over two weeks. if there's any shred of humanity or decency or something to feel sympathetic about particularly giving her upbringing, they've already presented that to the jury. they put on defense experts who were then countered by prosecution experts who did admit she has some problems. one defense expert i believe said she had borderline personality disorder and she also suffers from paranoia and fears of abandonment. those little hooks may be enough to beat the death penalty in the penalty phase. >> you ever hear that phrase, familiarity breeds contempt. she was on the stand for so long, she looked so cold, so calculating, fencing with martinez. she just, i think, made a horrible impression on the jury. i think that tactic is going to backfire. sometimes you know too much about somebody. >> she was on the stand for 18 days which is pretty shocking. sometimes quiet, sometimes
aggravating the prosecutor. but i just want to show you to see if there is anything here. there is something about being a woman, right? there is something about being a woman. she was being shown pictures of travis alexander and the murder scene how she reacted. >> ma'am, were you crying when you were shooting him? >> i don't remember. >> were you crying when you were stabbing him? >> i don't remember. >> how about when you cut his throat? were you crying then? >> i don't know. >> women don't often get the death penalty. >> no, they don't. as a matter of fact, i did a sort of a search to see what the stats are on it. i was surprised. 2.9% since 1632 women have gotten the death penalty. >> 2.9% of the women convicted -- >> no, 2.9% death penalty were women. now since 1976, only 12 women have gotten the death penalty. of those 12 women, 50% of them
killed their husbands or their boyfriends, sometimes called black widow defendants. so juries aren't too sympathetic to this scenario where you're killing a husband or a boyfriend. so stats don't help her in this. >> we shall see. thanks very much to both of you. still to come, the crowds aren't courtroom at the jodi arias trial tell one story. but those are only some of the fascinating, bizarre, and frankly, confounding numbers surrounding this trial. later, shocking details breaking to night in the case of those missing women in cleveland. when the first woman broke free, we have new reporting on why the other women did not also run. ♪
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welcome back to our breaking news coverage of the jodi arias verdict. late today jodi arias was declared guilty of the stabbing death of her boyfriend. it grabbed the attention of many, many americans. jodi arias spends an unprecedented 18 days on the stand answering more than 200 questions from the jury alone. just put that in a little perspective for you. during the nuremberg trials, one of the men responsible for millions of deaths of people spent just seven days on the stand. so why the obsession with the arias trial? what led millions to tune into the coverage on tv and follow the trial online? what caused dozens of people to travel, yes, in some cases huge distances, to spend days, weeks, and even months at the courthouse just to be there for the verdict today?
maybe it was this. >> when he. [ beep ] on my face, i felt like a prostitute. travis wanted to have a threesome. >> sexual intercourse. >> i had to. [ beep ] and you're like, whoa. [ beep ] i looked around and there is all over. it swooz hot. >> we were told today, the arias trial had every hallmark of a classic tabloid story or a soap opera. a four-month long soap opera. a lot of things may frustrate you about that but here's one. $1.7 million. that's how much arizona taxpayers paid for jodi arias' lawyers. that's correct. since she couldn't afford to foot the bill herself, she was pried with two court appointed lawyers. so if you're one of the people who enjoyed the entertainment of the past four months, thank the good people of arizona for paying for it.
next, we go to cleveland where the missing girls were finally able to go home today and where police describe how they say the suspect kept them locked away. we have late breaking details on that part of the story which has been the most impossible to understand. plus, how it went down this week. captured on tape when police went to rescue those women. and in other news, 17 american officers with the ability to launch nuclear weapons suddenly removed from duty. [ man ] on december 17, 1903, the wright brothers became the first in flight. [ goodall ] i think the most amazing thing is how like us these chimpanzees are. [ laughing ] [ woman ] can you hear me? and you hear your voice? oh, it's exciting! [ man ] touchdown confirmed. we're safe on mars. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ hi. [ baby fussing ] ♪
i am an american [i'm a teacher.] i'm a firefighter. i'm a carpenter. i'm an accountant. a mechanical engineer. and i shop at walmart. truth is, over sixty percent of america shops at walmart every month. i find what i need, at a great price. and the money i save goes to important things. braces for my daughter. a little something for my son's college fund. when people look at me, i hope they see someone building a better life. vo: living better: that's the real walmart. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much. i appreciate it. i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. your money needs an ally. hwelcome back.. nice to see you again!
we start the second half of our show with stories where we focus on our own report frgt front lines. we learned today that on the night of september 11th, eight months ago, u.s. ambassador to libya christopher stevens briefly spoke with his deputy gregory hicks. greg, we're under attack, stephens told him. and then the line went dead. during the house hearing, hicks recounted the night that ended with the death of stevens and three other americans. hicks testified that everybody knew it was a terrorist attack from the beginning. on monday, former fbi agent tim clemente said on this show that forces, u.s. force was have had time to deploy. the question that remains is, if that's true, why weren't they? among the many unanswered from benghazi. the last people on earth should be failing a performance review. yet today we're learning that 17 officers from the united states
air force who have the authority to launch nuclear missiles have been stripped of their powers for poor performance. they're being sent back to training for up to three months on how to do their jobs. this may shock you. you know what? we heard of similar problems before. a 2008 pentagon report found a serious erosion of focus, expertise, mission readiness, resources and discipline in the program.e's nuclear weapons this coming from the country that, of course, is the greatest nuclear superpower of them all. following our report this week that one of the key nations nuclear weapons sites was basically unprotected. it has been 643 days since the u.s. lost its top credit rating wlachlt are we doing to get it back? jeff i can xil jeffrey skilling, the first big debt blowup, get out of prison early in a deal made with the justice department, 10 of his 24-year prison sentence could be locked off. the justice department says the deal will expedite the $40
million going to victims in rest constitution. we're learning new information tonight about what happened in cleveland. and this, perhaps, a crucial development. we're learning that amanda berry right before she made that telephone call, she decided to call and try to get her release, to try to escape, get help. the other two women, though, when she fled the house to go make that call did not choose to come with her. cnn is learning this from a law enforcement source close to the investigation and it comes on the heels of other reporting that the women were kept perhaps in chains. they were kept really chained together down stairs and then eventually allowed to roam more freely around the house, perhaps on the second floor. this opens up a lot of questions. "outfront" tonight, a clinical psychologist. let me ask you. i've been trying to understand what happened. let's start with the reporting our pam brown has from law enforcement officials saying when amanda berry got that moment and she screamed and kicked the door and ran across the street to make that call, the other two women didn't come
with her. we know that these women were being held in a sadistic and horrifying situation. why wouldn't they have run? >> well, one of the things we see about amanda berry this is a young woman who had a lot of spirit, a lot of fight. you could see that she had the energy. it was the golden opportunity for her and it seemed to me like she really wanted as soon as she had that opportunity to get out and she said it, i'm free. i'm freed! i'm amandament but what we saw with the other two women was that simply they had different personalities. perhaps they were treated differently. we know, for example that, michelle knight says that she had gotten pregnant maybe five different times and this monster, aerial castro, kept punching her in the stomach to get her to abort. so he broke her down. as for gina, maybe she didn't have it in her the way she was continually raped. she just may not have had the same kind of personality as we see with amanda bearry.
yes, what michelle knight is saying happened to her with the five pregnancies. amanda berry was also there for ten years. so during that time, some of the time she might have been completely captive. some of the time, again, we're not sure. were they allowed on the second floor? but something happened to her, too? at one point she said i'm going to go for it. what might have happened to have her make that decision now and not another time? >> well, let's remember, she's the one with the child. and, therefore, it wasn't just about her but also about saving the child. >> could he have done something to the child? >> that's the thing. she might have seen this child growing up. the child was deprived. and, therefore, she felt that she had to save not just herself but also her child. he may have threatened her. we know he threatened her so many times where he said, look, you know, if any of you try to escape, i might kill the other one. so the way that he treated them and it wasn't about that they had so many opportunities to escape, it was simple fact that this is a man who had
brainwashed these young women and definitely they were afraid for their lives. but this woman, amanda berry who had this pregnancy, maybe this flipped something, something in her head where she said i'm not just a single, you know, young person here. but i also have a child and i have to save this child. >> i want to go to pam brown now who is in cleveland. we were just talking about your reporting on aerial castro. what have you learned about how he brainwashed these women? >> well, erin, we're learning a lot of new details today. according to a law enforcement source i spoke with we learned that amanda berry had her first opportunity to escape monday in the decade she was held in captainist in the home here in cleveland and she knew for whatever reason that aerial castro had left. thou we have learned from law enforcement source that he would test the women, that he would pretend to leave and test them to see if they would attempt to flee. if they did, he would discipline
them. but in this case, we learned from a law enforcement source that amanda berry hit her breaking pointment she knew castro had left the house and she fled and we learned from this source that the other two women did not flee. that they could have left behind berry. they could have gone with her. but that they chose to stay at the house indicating that they were not bound and also reflection of their state of mind that they were brainwashed, that they were fearful to leave. and that essentially they had succumb to this new reality, that they thought this was their life. and this is what they had to accept to be their life. >> is this the case that it had become sort of a way, we understand from law enforcement officials they were not kept in the same room but they knew each other. they were aware of each other. >> that's right. >> he can don't know the full circumstances of. this but it is possible it became some sort of a, this is a sick word to use, but a family? >> it was a family. to them it was a family. they supported one another which is very important. they needed that for their own
survival. but we also look at the simple fact that this ariel castro, what he did in his own mind, even though he was a sexual sadist that, was his own little dysfunctional family that he put together and probably convinced these women that they needed him to survive but even worse, convince himself that they wanted to be there and that he created a family that he couldn't never have before he failed at another family and therefore he was totally omnipotent and in control of this particular family. everything under his own terms. >> all right. we're going to have much more on where his situation stands, read his miranda rights today. apparently even after that was talking to law enforcement officials one of whom tells cnn that this is a slam dunk case. they don't think it will go to trial. we don't know the status of the brothers though. thank you very much. tonight, two of the women are back with their families. amanda berry walked into her sister's home this morning to
the tears cheers of hundreds of neighbors. several hours later gina dejesus arrived home at the home she grew up as a child. we have the homecomings "outfront." >> reporter: home at last after long nine years of captivity, gina dejesus reunited with her family. >> my first reaction when i saw my daughter, the only thing i did is grab her and hug her. i didn't want to let her go. >> and after a decade of horror for amanda berry, she and her 6-year-old daughter were welcomed home with tears of jubilation. her sister overjoyed. >> i just want to say we are so happy to have amanda and her daughter home. i want to thank the public and the media for their support and courage over the years and at this time our family would request privacy so my sister and niece and i can have time to recover. >> we're so blessed that
everybody is safe. and that amanda is safe with her family. and gina and michelle, there are a lot of community support. we're a very tight neighborhood. >> reporter: in that same neighborhood, the miracle is still sinking in for the dejesus family. >> until this moment for me it is still -- i still feel it is a dream. i still pinch myself. i know she's there. i know she's going to be there. but it's like a dream. >> reporter: gina's mother says faith kept her close to her daughter while she was missing. >> she prayed. she spoke to god just as i did. and, you know, we spoke and we prayed together. >> reporter: while her father always believed he would see his daughter again. >> because i knew my daughter was out there alive. >> she was! >> yes!
i knew she was alive and i never gave up. >> reporter: the third victim is still in the hospital in good condition awaiting a homecoming of her own. >> i want everybody to know that the three of them are doing great. there's no word to describe -- the beauty of just seeing them. >> reporter: poppy harlow, cnn, cleveland. >> still "outfront," new video of ariel castro, the man police say held the three women captive for ten years. we're getting the first pictures of him tonight shot just after castro was interviewed by police. we're going to show that to you next, what he looks like today. and new dispatch audio from the cleveland police. this is a play-by-play of what the police encountered when they went into castro's house and saw those women for the first time. >> we found them. we found them. [ crying ]
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the wright brothers became the first in flight. [ goodall ] i think the most amazing thing is how like us these chimpanzees are. [ laughing ] [ woman ] can you hear me? and you hear your voice? oh, it's exciting! [ man ] touchdown confirmed. we're safe on mars. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ hi. [ baby fussing ] ♪ stay top of mind with customers?
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cnn obtained the police audio from that afternoon. here is the moment that police entered the house on seymour avenue. >> adam 23. you have a bus coming? >> there might be three of them. there might be others in the house. gina might be in the house also. >> we found them. we found them. >> copy. >> they have a young child with them. >> we also have a michelle knight in the house. i don't know if you want to look that up in the system. 32 years old. >> you can hear the women in the background whaling and crying. we have new video tonight of ariel castro, the man charged with rape and kidnapping in connection with the disappearance of those three women. this exclusive video was shot by our affiliate woio, you can see ariel castro there. that is the first time that we have seen him trying to cover his face.
this was right after reinterviewed by police. i want to emphasize all you've seen is that shot from him before. this is the first time that we've actually seen him. brian todd is in cleveland with the latest on the investigation and those charges filed against ariel castro. >> reporter: authorities in cleveland lay out their case against ariel castro in the disappearances of amanda berry, gina dejesus and michelle knight. >> i just signed criminal complaints charging ariel castro with four counts of kidnapping and three counts of rape. >> reporter: castro's two brothers are not being charged. authorities say the women were bound while they were in captivity that, there were chains and ropes in the home. we're also getting new details on abuse and abduction allegations against ariel castro which date back at least eight years. a compliant filed in 2005 against ariel castro by a woman listed as the natural paint of his child claims castro broke her nose twice, broke letter
ribs, gave her lacerations, knocked out a tooth, gave her a blood clot on the brain. next to that it says inoperable tumor. dislocated both shoulders and threatened to kill her and her daughters three or four times that year. fernando colon was engaged to her until her death last year. here's what he says she told him about abuse at the hands of ariel castro. >> she said that any little mistake she made, even if she drops a plate to the ground, he gets so upset that he would beat her. threw her down the stairs at one point. threw her against the wall. he kicked her in the head when she was on the floor. grabbed some barbells with weights and hit her in the head. >> hit her on the head with barbells? >> with barbells. she already had one brain surgery when i met her. >> but that domestic abuse case was dismissed because ariel castro often didn't show up in court and because on a crucial day figuero's lawyer was not there. and fernando colon could have motivation for laying out
allegations. he was convicted of molesting castro's children several years ago. he claims that he orchestrated the charges against him to deflect from his own crimes. he's moving ahead with an appeal of his conviction. he says this about the former common law wife last year. >> she died of the injuries she sustained on her head, brain aneruysm, cancer, whatever she had on her head, all caused her death. >> fernando colon says in 2004 he told the fbi that they ought to look at ariel castro as a possible abductor of gina dejesus but the fbi didn't do it. a special agent said they checked their records and they have no evidence that fernando colon never told them about ariel castro. in that complaint from back in 2005, erin, it does say that ariel castro also would sometimes abduct his own children from his common law wife even though he didn't have
custody of them. >> brian, the more you learn about this the more it seems impossible that human beings could have done it. it was that way from the start and gets more and more that way. i know also there are a lot of questions about the credibility. a lot of people involved in this case. one of the men you were talking to, i mean these people all have complicated back stories. but one of them is the man who claimed credit for having saved these women charles ramsey. what do you know about that? >> well charles ramie, as you know, erin, claimed to have kicked down part of the door which actually ended up freeing amanda berry to go across the street to call 911. the police have publicly thanked charles ramsey for doing what he apparently did. however, some neighbors including one that i spoke to across the street, the woman where she ran and called 911, the woman's house, said that there was a man named angel who actually kicked down that door and enabled, excuse me, amanda berry to go free, it was not charles ramsey who did that. so there are some differing accounts here, as you mentioned.
there are credibility questions regarding almost everyone involved in this case. so maybe some of that will come out in the days ahead. maybe we'll get a little more clarity on who the hero really was. >> all right. people want to know that. one of them, of course, we know amanda berry thanks to our brian todd. former fbi profiler john douglas and casey jordan, good to have both of you with us. casey, i mean brian todd painted a pretty horrific picture of ariel castro as if it needed to get any more horrific than it was. it has gotten worse. abuse, allegations of abductions dating back at least eight years. you've interviewed a lot of terrible people in your years at the fbi. where does he rank? >> wow. well, first of all, we have to start with the word alleged. i think what is most disturbing about this case that we learned today is michelle knight's accounts that she has been pregnant five times and that each and every one of those times he starved her for two weeks and then literally beat her until she miscarried. i mean that is something that raises the level of heinousness
to something we don't normally see. and questions are going to arise about why amanda better yea wrr allowed to but, again, one of those children is the product of a sexual assault, and so you have the dna prove once it comes back to prove it. >> right. if it was his child. >> yes. >> and also there are questions as to whether he was doing something to that child that caused her to finally make that call and reach out for help. >> exactly. >> john, these women were held captive in a densely populated area for more than a decade within a few miles of where they disappeared. neighbors have said they called police multiple times with all sorts of sightings or suspicious activity at the home. now, authorities held a press conference today and they said what all those people are saying is categorically untrue, people were not calling. but did police miss anything here? >> what they could have missed here is that we had a program at the bureau, if they would submit the cases, it's called a violent criminal apprehension program
where police had submit the facts of the case and we run it through a computer, the computer kicks can out similarities. certainly in these three cases, certainly two that would stand out westbouould be the two youn the victims. and as an investigator, i would think the concentration really would have been on them. and just the elements of the case tells me it's not one of these abductions where the subject is coming from a different part of the state or a different state. this is not a parental abduction, obviously. this is a stranger abduction. this is like one of about 110 stranger abductions we get a year. so there should have been -- maybe there was, and we don't know. there should have been a strong focus in that particular area. but we're hearing different things right now. >> but casey, it's also -- we're hearing things that look, this guy was accused of beating his wife and almost killing her and doesn't show up in court so he gets a plea. i mean, that's bizarre. is there something about the socio economics of this
situation that led to what happened? >> the criminal justice system is overburdened, it's overwhelmed. i wish i could tell you that was an anomaly in family court, but it's really not. very often when people don't show up, you can't dispose of a case if people aren't there, if they're not there with lawyers, if they make continuances, don't show up. what we worry about in this case is that history of domestic violence, and also what we look at now is that that daughter, who was the best friend of gina, and used as a ploy. he pulled up -- >> right, his daughters was friends with gina and so she felt comfortable getting in the car with him. >> he used that. now where is gina today? she is in prison for slicing the throat of her child. she is doing i think 25 years for attempted murder. what sort of dysfunction was going on in the castro household? was long-term in duration and very deep in intensity. the one incident of domestic violence -- i guarantee if there was one we know about, there are dozens we did not. >> which seems to be unfortunately the horrible way things happen. john, what about the brother?
now we know there has been charges filed against ariel. but the charges were taken into custody, pedro and o'neill. he would be serving life in prison if he is found guilty of rape and kidnappings, never mind anything else. what about them? >> it surprised me they really didn't know anything about it. but then again, i've had cases around the country from dennis rader, the strangler, no one new, living in a small house, children didn't know. worked the case out of gary hidenick who kept women in a pit in philadelphia. in fact, that's where they got the idea, the movie "silence of the lambs" and no one knew anything. he boarded up the windows, turned up the radio loud so when he left no one could hear the screams and he would browbeat them and put them in a pit in the floor. only difference, in the movie he filled the pit up with water and
would electrocute them as punishment. and there were different times where they could escape but didn't escape. they were fearful of their lives. and they just -- >> right. >> they just held back and just stayed there. >> and casey, in this case we're hearing that too. when they did become, quote, unquote, more free within the house, that he would leave the house and come back and try to catch them doing anything. >> yeah. >> they would then become so fearful that when he left, they did not try to seek that opportunity. >> yeah, erin, the stockholm incident was named after where those hostages developed empathy for their captors within six days. now imagine ten years of being tortured where you begin to equate the lack of torture to kindness. what's interesting to me, we found out today the two other women were not shackled, they were free, and they did not run out when amanda did. it shows the psychological imprisonment they were suffering. >> incredible that can happen so quickly. thank you very much, john and casey. and up next, we have new information on what's happening to jodi arias right now. we'll be right back.
jodi arias is now on suicide protocol. as we told you this hour, arias was found guilty of first degree murder in the death of her former boyfriend, travis alexander. you heard her reacting to that, you saw her react to that there. the maricopa county sheriff's department tells cnn that arias is as of this moment now on suicide protocol. now, this decision was made after the verdict, and after arias contacted a local phoenix television station from her jail cell. in that phone call, arias said she would honor a promise that she he previously made to a reporter to speak with him on camera if the verdict was murder one. now, after that conversation, arias was put on suicide protocol. from the way this case goes now, it goes into a sentencing phase. and that starts tomorrow around 1:00, phoenix time. that's when jurors will decide whether this act was a horrific act, truly heinous act, and whether she will get the death penalty by lethal injection. both of those decisions must be
unanimous. tomorrow on "outfront" we hear from the mother of might kala garaf, went missing 25 years ago. we have that special report tomorrow. anderson starts now. erin, thanks. good evening, everyone. we are live again tonight in cleveland. there is a lot to report here in the story that has stunned the people along seymour avenue and a verdict in the jodi arias trial, found guilty of first degree murder. jurors did not buy her claim of self defense. now her lawyers are preparing to fight for her life. more on that ahead in the hour. we begin with the breaking news. authorities have just released a dispatch call that sent police to the house behind me, 2207 seymour avenue on monday after 911 call from amanda berry herself. listen. >> i have a caller on the phone with a female who says her name is amanda berry and that she had been kidnapped ten years