tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN June 12, 2013 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
chewbaca. just for laughs, let's hear isha again. that's it the man who leaked information about the nsa's surveillance program says he did it to safe guard privacy and liberty. today the director of that agency testified that that program foiled dozens of terrorist attacks. question we are asking tonight is the tradeoff worth it to americans. pope francis seems to admit there is a gay lobby working within the vatican. does he see it as a threat. and her family fought the system and won. a young girl gets the lung that could save her life. let's go "outfront." ♪ good to be with you.
i'm brooke baldwin sitting in for erin burnett who is covering the presidential election in tehran tonight. we'll hear from erin a bit later in the show. but first, stopping terror. today the head of the nsa testified before congress that surveillance programs like the one leaked by edward snowden last week are crucial to our national security. >> it's dozens of terrorist events that these have helped prevent. >> is the u.s. government collecting too much unnecessary data in the process? senator pratt tick leahy was among those today, expressing skepticism about the mountains and mountains of information that the government is collecting. >> out of those millions, dozens have been critical? >> that's correct.
>> is critical information perhaps details that could have stopped the boston bombers getting lost in the shuffle? on chief correspondent dana bash is on capitol hill where i know you spent your afternoon watching this hearing. you heard some of senator leahy's skepticism. what about the other senators? were they buying the argument? >> reporter: i think it's fair to say most were not. it was really in a bipartisan way that the senators were expressing skepticism. it was clear the nsa director came with ways to illustrate how he believes the programs are working. you heard him talk about the fact that dozens of terror plots have been disrupted before they occurred. he was pressed on that by senator leahy. he said it was parts of other programs that really helped to thwart them. there is a another program called prism which has to do with the government getting into
private internet use. he talked about how that led the government to know about a plot to blow up new york subways. said that wasn't the only way they were able to stop that. that was the initial way they found out about it. it was very clear that the senators from the most conservative to the most liberal said that is well and good but they are concerned that the web of data that the government is collecting may, down the road, not be used for good. there's a slippery slope when it comes to civil liberties. >> we are about to have that conversation on that slippery slope. going back to your point which was the initial headline the fact that general alexander, the nsa director saying dozens of attacks have been thwarted. he was asked for a specific number, he did not give one. do you know why no number? >> he was very clear because that number is still classified. he is going to be back here on capitol hill for a classified
briefing tomorrow with all senators. they are going to be able to ask him that question. he said he will be able to answer it in a classified private way. he said he is working with his staff and other members of the intelligence community to make public to you and me and others what the numbers are and how many terror plots were thwarted and how within a week. he was very, very careful with the way he said that he had declassified information. he said i'm trying to do my best and make it transparent. but he also said he would rather take a public beating and have people think he was hiding something than to jeopardize the security of this country. >> dana bash on the hill for us tonight. i want to push this conversation forward. joining me former deputy director of national security of the fbi. and mark, senior national security correspondent for reuters. welcome. mark, let me begin with you. when we talk about the massive amounts of data.
we know nsa is building a $2 billion facility outside of salt lake city just to contain all of this. according to the chief of the nsa it has thwarted dozens of terrorist attacks. my question to you is, is that it? does the end justify the means? >> we have to be skeptical until we see the evidence as to the success rate of the data. i know for a fact that in the past intelligence officials claim certain plots were thwarted and it turns out that wasn't entirely correct. let's see some of the facts there. we know of two or three very high profile plots including the boston marathon plot and the attempted underwear bombing of an airliner headed for detroit on christmas 2009 where the u.s. had traces of intelligence and from foreign governments and the father of the would-be underwear bomber out of yemen that there
were bad people around and these people were bad and there should be lookouts for these people. the government was unable to do anything with these traces even though in the case of the boston bombers, they conducted an investigation. so at some point you get so overwhelmed with information that you can't necessarily sort the needles out from the hay stack. >> it is interesting the fact that the stack is getting bigger and bigger and we need better people to find the needles. given the information you immediately think of the conversations and the data involving perhaps tamerlan tsarnaev. we saw what happened in boston. is there too much information that the system is overburdened?
>> no, i don't think so. i think the boston case is irrelevant here. >> why? >> because you have two guys who are largely off the net. they were homegrowns. are you sure we would have found something there? i'm not sure. i think there is a very simple question here, the word surveillance is too narrow. let me tell you what that question is. if you want to understand a conspiracy in the 21st century you can send 20 people out with shoes on to follow you or you could say let me look at the phone data, internet data and i will tell you whether it is you or me or mark i can draw a picture of what your network is almost instantly using this data. that is invaluable. >> what about the issue? when you look at the polling it is interesting. when americans are asked about being surveilled the majority of americans do not approve of the collection of phone data from
ordinary folks but they do approve of the collection of data in terror suspects. you see the numbers here. how is it possible for the government to stop terror, to monitor the bad guys, if you will, and to not surveil the american people? >> well, of course, it is impossible. phil is right about that. but i would also make the point that in the case in people like tsarnaev and the underwear bomber, you are not looking these days for 9/11 plotters. although at least theoretically that could happen today. >> they brought up 9/11 at the committee hearing. >> what you are looking for is the very sort of isolated individuals who radicalize themselves watching over the internet. that is what the most recent plots have been related to. as phil said arguably that data isn't going to find it. you are not talking about large conspiracies but about a couple of guys. yeah, a couple of guys is a conspiracy. it is not necessarily spottable
through the data situations. is the masses of data helping you? >> your final thoughts and adding to that, do we -- should we be taking the government's word on the news that they say they are thwarting terrorist attacks? does the american public deserve more information? >> i think they do because the question isn't about terrorism. we understand as americans in terms of our physical privacy what the limits are. in an airport you can be checked, at the grocery store you cannot. as we get increasingly digital with amazon or google or verizon, have a digital footprint and we don't have an understanding of how privacy relates to that footprint. we have to have that debate. >> thank you both so much. this is just the beginning. still to come tonight the pope admits there is a gay lobby within the vatican. does it make the church vulnerable. we'll ask. plus, her father was murdered and for nearly three decades she vowed to find the
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we are following breaking news out of colorado where a disaster emergency has been declared because of this unstoppable wildfire. look at it for yourself here. these flames have burned through 97 homes. this is according to the sheriff's office. the flames are a serious match because the officials have just said the conditions are unpredictable. victor blackwell is out front. victor, what more are you learning about this fire? >> reporter: we know it is burning in two directions, northeast and northwest. because of those conditions it is becoming even more difficult to fight. we know there are 500
firefighters working on this. imagine the worst possible conditions, a hot, dry, windy day. today the temperature hit 90, the humidity is down to 10% and the winds are sustained 10 to 15 miles per hour with gusts of 25. now, we know that this fire has burned up to 8,000 acres already. the sheriff who is holding a news conference now says that could grow to 12 now, and there's still more work to be done. i'm going to step out of the way to show you what we are seeing all day we have seen this ash cloud over parts of colorado springs. the black forest area. we have seen pops of dark smoke. that means something man made, something with chemicals, vinyl, fabric, pressure treated wood, paint is burning. those are homes. as you said, 97 burned. 92 a total loss, five with some type of fire damage. >> incredible. you think you are looking at a cloud, instead it's a wall of smoke.
thinking about the folks in colorado tonight. our second story secret gay lobby inside the vatican? pope francis acknowledges the existence of a gay lobby during a private meeting on sunday. he was quoted by saying this, there are holy people, truly holy people but there is a current of corruption. they speak of a gay lobby and that is true, it is here. we have to see what we can do. the pope's remarks come months after reports that his predecessor may have been forced out by a gay group implicated in a leak scandal. out front tonight cnn contributor father edward beck. good to see you tonight. the vatican, they are not going to take it all on the pope's remark. when you hear gay lobby what might he be referring to?
>> brook, of course, we have to assume that there are gay men, gay priests. 10% of the population is supposedly gay so probably 10% of those are gay. gay lobby i think is a confusing term. we use lobby to mean someone putting forth a certain agenda lobbying for a cause. gay lobby would mean lobbying for gay causes. if that's the case, they should be fired because they are doing a poor job of it with regard to the catholic church. probably a better word for it is gay clique. the concern is this. if there is, in fact, a gay group, it makes them perhaps more vulnerable, some have said for blackmail. this got released in that dossier and they were supposed to make a report back to pope benedict. they did.
some said in that report there was mention of a gay lobby that made the vatican vulnerable. so that seems to be what is resurfacing here in the remarks of pope francis, again off the record remarks where he refers to the gay lobby and says now we have to deal with it. what that means we do not yet know. >> i like how you say it helps us understand not a gay lobby but a gay clique. so if there were to be this gay clique, what might that mean for the church's stance on homosexuality? >> it is only problematic if we find out the clique is active sexually. the church teaching with regard to homosexuality, the church is not against homosexuality. the church realizes that homosexuals exist. just like everybody else. the church says celibacy and the priests are supposed to be celibate. if they are not keeping vows. there were some reports saying
that some were seen at gay bathhouses in rome. if that were the case that would open up to scandal then. so perhaps could these priests be blackmailed by those who had something against the vatican to make the vatican more vulnerable, perhaps. that was the concern when the report was released. >> father beck, thank you. our third story out front. cash for care. a small but growing number of doctors are opting out of the insurance system, requiring patients to pay for visits up front. about 5% of american physicians have gotten so fed up with paperwork and regulations, they are refusing to accept private insurance or government programs like medicare. christine romans reports saying patients may be paying too high a price. >> come on in. >> reporter: he was fed up. >> just have a seat.
>> reporter: the family doctor from portland, maine used to do lots of paperwork, so much it was taking time from patients. so he stopped taking medicare and other insurance all together. >> we ask patients to pay at the time of service, just like you would be expected to pay at your garage, at the barbershop or at the grocery store. >> reporter: under his new system, his prices are clearly marked on his website. $75 for an office visit, $150 for a complete physical. that's roughly in line with how much he had been receiving from medicare and private insurance plans. his operating costs are much lower, as well with less paperwork. >> we've been able to cut our staff down. we had one full-time employee to support me and she answers phones and draws blood and so forth. so that's been a huge savings. >> reporter: he says he now has more time to focus on his patients and even makes house
calls. but for many patients, they can't pay out of pocket. he says he's lost a quarter of his roughly 2,000 patients but expects others to take their place. an hour north of portland, another family doctor, dr. michael clark, understands his frustration. >> the idea of a streamline practice is very attractive. a lot of us hunger for a simpler structure to our practices where it could be about the care we give to our patients. >> reporter: but in this return community, dr. clark felt he couldn't turn away senior patients reliant on medicare. >> there are not that many patients who would be able to put up with this. some very rich patients, of course, they could do this. but a lot of low-income people
couldn't afford the fees. >> reporter: with endless bureaucracy and costs that seem out of control, some doctors are trying different tactics to stay in business. christine roman, cnn, new york. still to come, the man accused of holding three women captive for a decade. he was in court today. ariel castro faces more than 300 charges and his own lawyer says yes, some of those charges are tough to deny. plus, her father was murdered when she was a little girl. for nearly three decades she searched for justice and may found it. this explosion killed more than a dozen people and vaporized part of a town. why fema says it will not help rebuild. but first, tonight's shoutout. going down the road, loses control, smashes to the car in front of him.
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we start the second half of the show with stories we care about where we focus on our own reporting from the front lines beginning with fema. fema is denying the city of west, texas money to rebuild after april's deadly fertilizer plant explosion. in a letter fema says the cost of the remaining work is within the capabilities of the state and the local government. we spoke to west mayor who says pipes were damaged that were not covered by insurance and the city is experiencing large losses in tax revenue. the mayor was not pleased with this decision, saying president obama said he would be behind us.
he's so far behind us that we can't see him anymore. after six years in hiding alleged mob boss is standing trial charged with murdering 19 people. today a prosecutor recounting crime after gruesome crime called bulger a hands on killer. even his own attorney admitted he was a loan shark and drug dealer. earlier today i talked to john who once ran cocaine for whitey bulger. he describes the advice bulger once gave to him when he was arrested. >> he said to me it takes a strong person to reach inside themselves and say i'm here because of me. you know what, he should follow his own preaching today right now. he is an angry man. this is his last hoorah. >> trial is expected to go on for three months.
and tomorrow a sold out carnival triumph is heading back to sea. keep in mind, this is the same ship that four months ago left thousands of passengers stranded without power and dare i add, working toilets and showers. remember this? carnival says it has spend $150 million to fix everything and then some. there is even a new burger joint and tequila bar. but this might surprise you. we checked with the cdc and even though cruise ships are subject to two unannounced sanitary inspections per year the triumph hasn't had one since july of last year. our fourth story trying to avoid the death penalty. today ariel castro pleaded not guilty to more than 300 charges of rape, kidnapping and murder. castro, silent lynn head down here. the attorney saying some of the charges are indisputable, but
the plea is meant to avoid a trial. >> a not guilty plea at this stage requires the prosecutor to continue to evaluate their case and determine whether medical and forensic evidence can actually support an aggravated murder conviction for the death of a fetus and whether the death penalty is warranted. >> so the attorney says his client is willing to plead guilty to all of the charges except for the charges of murder to claims that he forced the termination of the pregnancy of at least one of the three women held in his home. if those counts are dismissed, it would take the death penalty off the table. mr. dewine i want to talk about the death penalty issue because this review board, the review committee is going to be sorting
through evidence and in doing so they will decide whether this case is quote unquote appropriate to seek the death penalty. i was in cleveland. i remember when the stories and details were coming out about allegations of him kicking and punching and violently forcing the abortions. if that isn't enough to seek death sentence tell me what is. >> i think what the prosecuting attorney and his team have to look at is whether or not, under ohio law, the evidence does in fact fit the crime, not only of aggravated murder, which of course it does, but whether the specifications can be added for the death penalty. i think you can make a good argument that it could. the prosecuting attorney has to make tough choices. i think what any prosecutor does and what prosecutor mcghenty told me he is going to do is let
his board look at this but he is certainly going to consult the victims and consult the victims' families and consult the police that have investigated this. this is what any prosecutor will do. that's what he will do. >> you mentioned the victims. we haven't heard from these young women since the whole ordeal ended. but i want to point out the attorney of two of the young women, amanda berry and gina de jesus did say this. we understand the legal process needs to run its course. we are hopeful for a just and prompt resolution. we have great faith in the prosecutor's office. when i heard prompt resolution i thought if this case goes to trial, given everything you have outlined, "prompt" may be
unlikely. do you think that a plea deal would be a fair trade so that these women don't have to relive -- let's call it what it was -- hell in the court. >> the victims are very central to this. you want to do what is right for the victims. to determine that you have to take into consideration what their wishes are. as you point out a plea gets it over with very quickly. if you don't have a plea it does not get it over with quickly. that doesn't mean you take the plea. it is one of the things that anyone has to consider. >> mike dewine, ohio attorney general, thanks for joining us tonight. now a different crime taking decades to solve. a cold case brought back to life through a daughter's grief and determination. 26 years after a little girl's father is murdered a now grown woman has helped track down his alleged killer. poppy harlow is out front. >> this was his last birthday. >> reporter: it's like a dream for joslyn martinez. what is your greatest memory of your father? >> the parties we had at the restaurant.
>> reporter: after 26 years her father's alleged killer arrested, his capture thanks in large part to her. >> my family told me don't forget that name. >> reporter: she was just 9 when her father was murdered in 1986. jose martinez was shot and killed outside the new york city restaurant he and his wife owned. but the suspect, santos fled to the dominican republic. the nypd says the murder case was closed in 1988 after receiving information that santos was jailed in the dominican republic. what they didn't know was a year later santos was released. >> they should not have closed the case. it should have been looked at to see if there was additional information as to whether or not he was out of jail. >> reporter: in 2006 she started hunting online for her father's alleged killer delving into websites like background.com. what did you find?
>> i didn't know i found so much stuff. >> reporter: after years of searching -- >> let me look. i had this background check. it was right at the top. >> reporter: she took what she found here to the 34th precinct in november. >> because november is the anniversary of my father's death, and i get upset. >> reporter: police say it is because of her efforts they were able to capture santos. >> it is admirable what she did. obviously she made a concerted effort, and it paid off. >> reporter: a police source tells cnn after santos was arrested in miami thursday he confessed to murdering jose martinez. >> all i wanted was to figure out what happened. >> reporter: what do you think your dad would say? >> i think he would just hug me and smile. he would smile a lot. >> reporter: nypd detectives are in miami and plan to bring santos back to new york friday.
he will be arraigned next week and faces second degree murder charges. poppy harlow, cnn new york. how about that? still to come tonight a 10-year-old girl who fought and fought the system to get a lung transplant is finally getting surgery. why one of our upcoming guests says maybe she shouldn't be getting this transplant. plus the sign that says all restaurant employees must watch hands after the bathroom, does it work? a new study has the answer. i'm a carpenter. i'm an accountant. a mechanical engineer. and i shop at walmart. truth is, over sixty percent of america shops at walmart every month. i find what i need, at a great price. and the money i save goes to important things. braces for my daughter. a little something for my son's college fund. when people look at me, i hope they see someone building a better life. vo: living better: that's the real walmart.
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we are back with tonight's outer circle where we reach out to our sources all around the world and we begin in iran with erin burnett. as you know, she will be there live at this hour tomorrow night with her reporting on the iranian presidential elections, and tonight, erin is on the ground with a preview of what's going on there. here's erin. >> this is tehran. just in the final hours, final couple of days before the presidential election. the ground is littered with campaign posters.
we have been spending the day at head quarters. traffic is terrible. a lot of people here are actually coming -- all of them have had something to say to us. some of what they have had to say has been pretty shocking. some of them have been positive about engaging with the united states and the west. others have been completely the opposite. we have had incredible access and we are really excited to share it all with you. our special report begins tomorrow night live on "outfront" right here from iran. back to you. >> it is incredible. erin will be live from tehran tomorrow night hours before the polls open in iran's elections. do not miss that live report. our fifth story tonight. a new shot on life. tonight, 10-year-old sarah murnaghan, who needed a new set of lungs in order to survive, is just out of transplant surgery.
we have been talking about this on this show. her family has been fighting this battle long and hard, trying to change the rules to keep those under the age of 12 from getting adult organs. after appealing to health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius, to no avail, they went to a judge who temporarily waived the rule. jason carroll is there. jason, bring us up to speed. how is she, what do you know? >> reporter: that's what we're hearing from a family spokeswoman who sent me an e-mail before we went on the air, saying that sarah had come out of surgery, right now she's in icu, and apparently doing as well as can be expected. she's still not out of the woods yet. this was a very difficult surgery. there can be a lot of complications, but we're hearing she is doing well and is out of surgery here.
just before 5:00, when 10-year-old sarah was still in surgery, i managed to get her mother to come down and speak to us, as well as her aunt, about what this whole experience has been like for them and what it's been like for their entire family. >> mostly relieved. it's been really hard, there's no good place to go from here. so mostly relief. i'm a little nervous. my baby is in that operating room. i'm trying to focus on we did it. we have lungs. and she has hope and a future. >> reporter: and her family also wanting to make the point that the real hero in all of this is the donor that made all of this possible, something possible now that would not have been possible two weeks ago. >> we wish her and the family well. jason carroll, we will look for
you and look for the mother on "ac 360." but at the same time, sarah's story is raising questions about the fairness of america's transplant policies. hello, gentlemen. we heard the news. she is out of surgery. which is great for you. but dean, let me begin with you. it's a tricky story. 75,000 people on a list for a transplant in the u.s. this young girl and her family they got everyone's attention including that of this federal judge. do you think what they did was fair? >> i think for them -- first of all i want to say i'm happy for her and her family. we all want her to live a great plant. there is someone else who doesn't have the lung transplant. it could be someone who is watching, their brother or sister. while it is a feel good story for sarah there is someone else who didn't get the transplant
because her family went around the rules and took advantage of going to court. 10% on the organ transplant list don't survive. someone else is there with their family wondering if their child or brother or sister will survive. this gets rid of the confidence we need in the system. >> at the same time can you fault this girl's family for banging down the media's door? trying to talk to secretary sebelius. do you fault them? >> i think this family was incredibly scrappy and tenacious and did everything they could for their daughter. the bigger issue is that we have a serious shortage of organs. we have a more serious shortage of pediatric organs. the fundamental problem is we don't allow compensation for organs. that's an idea that makes a lot of people really uncomfortable. but we have to do one of two things. you either move to a system which we presume concept. we assume everyone who dies in a traffic accident has consented
to becoming organ donors. whereas now, you have to default into the system. let's say you have to default out of the system to say you have some big objection. the other thing you can do is simply say that, look, we are going to allow the medicare system or say some other approach for people who make those donations, who are taking a risk. it's not that big a risk, but it is a risk to get some compensation for what they're doing rather than depend on the kindness of their heart. >> let me jump in. the idea of paying for organs, there's a list for a reason. there's a list of need and acuteness for a reason. the idea of paying wouldn't that mean whoever has the biggest purse strings not related to need -- >> absolutely not. we could have a system which we say, there's only one organization that can compensate people. say you have the medicare system say we're going to offer a rate,
say a modest rate, but we're offering some compensation for the risks people are undertaking. >> dean, i want you to jump in. >> i like what he said on the first part, that we have an opt-in system. >> presumed consent. >> other countries do that, it's a good thing. the idea for having compensation for any organs goes against -- people with more money will get better treatment in the system. we have to have fairness in the system. >> fairness in which a lot of people die because they don't get organs is not fair at all. it's very successful, it's very safe. >> let me say, i talked to a lot of doctors about this story, if you're touched by this story, become an organ donor. thank you very much.
every night, we take a look at outside the day's top stories for something we call "outfront outtake." washing your hands, one of the best ways to avoid getting sick. yet according to this shocking new story, almost none of us do it correctly. researchers discretely watched 3,749 people in public restrooms, maybe even you, and they found that 95% did not wash their hands correctly. the average person spends a mere six seconds scrubbing. nowhere near the 20 seconds the center for disease control recommends. what's more, they're not using soap. 22% not using soap. 10% left without washing their hands at all. how about this, gender also played a part. 15% of men didn't wash their hands compared to just 7% of the ladies. researchers found that the appearance of the bathroom played a big part.
the nicer, the cleaner the restroom, the more likely people would wash their hands. i would like a little champagne in the bathroom. and for the signs that we all make fun of, employees must wash hand signs, apparently they work when one of those signs was present, employees and customers were more likely to scrub down. and now you know. still to come, wish there was more transparency in the world? wait till you see this. but we still swim. every second, somewhere in the world, lightning strikes... but we still play in the rain. poisonous snakes can be found in 49 of the 50 states, but we still go looking for adventure. a car can crash... a house can crumble...
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scientific breakthrough. it's called clarity, and this picture shows what happens. on the left, a completely in tact brain from a house. on the right, a brain that is completely transparent. it's there, but almost invisible. after being bathed in a solution invented by the doctor and his team. >> it was the inability to see anything at all that was the most exciting thing. then that moment was really, i think, a transformative moment. >> reporter: later, you get these images through the use of fluorescents. in the past, this opaque organ had to be sliced open to get a view. >> what we worked on with this technology is a way to see through the brain without taking it apart. >> reporter: with the brain in tact, scientists can study it more thoroughly. >> to look at all those pathways that we have speculated on for
years, to see them come to life, it's fascinating. >> reporter: the process involves submerging a brain into a hydrogel. they're then left with a fully transparent brain that can now be studied. by getting an unprecedented view of the brain, the team here at stanford hope it will lead to an unprecedented understanding of deceases like alzheimer's, and the research will lead to better treatment for those disorders. >> we don't understand how the brain normally works to create reality, to create hope and sensations. if we don't understand that, then we can't understand how it fails to work. >> reporter: the new biotechnology is quite simple, and can further our knowledge of something extraordinarily complex. "piers morgan live" is next.
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chicago plus a firefighter became an internet sensation when he made this rescue. and a 10-year-old girl fighting for her life gets a lung transplant. she's out of surgery tonight and her family says her doctors are pleased with her progress tonight. we'll bring you more news as it happens. you met the hero that tried to stop the santa monica rampage killer herself shot again and again. >> eight bullets entered the car, right away two hit me on the left side, three more hit me on the right side. >> tonight, we'll reunite her with a neighbor that came to her rescue. she laid bleeding in her car. exclusive video, the mother of a cleveland kidnapping victim saying something you would never expect about ariel castro, plus the woman who tracked down her father's alleged killer after 26 years and did it online.