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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  October 3, 2013 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT

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tonight, a cnn special. chaos on capitol hill. but this time it had nothing to do with the usual political pandemonium. >> i mean, it was pop pop pop. pop pop pop. in two rounds. >> they ran us all up to the top of the steps and then they ran us back down.
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it was scary. >> it started with a frantic car chase that began neither white house. within minutes the driver was a stone's throw away from the u.s. capitol steps. surrounded by police. after an ill-conceived attempt to escape, officers opened fire as a panic crowd of onlookers and lawmakers run for their lives. >> we thought we heard shots. saw a lot of police cars then we heard shots. then the police told to us go back. we were simply walking back to our office. >> tonight the latest on what started the chase. the woman behind the wheel. and why the investigation has now turned to a city in connecticut. our cnn special "capitol scare" starts now. good evening, everyone. i'm jake tapper. welcome to the special half hour of cnn "capitol scare." we're coming to you tonight live from capitol hill. not far from where a dramatic series of events unfolded this afternoon that left lawmakers on lockdown. you can hear what's going on behind me where police are repairing a barrier that the
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capitol hill policemen hit during that high-speed chase right over my shoulder. imagine how frightening it must have been for workers at the capitol this afternoon to hear this blaring over the loudspeaker. >> shelter in place. close, lock and move away from doors and windows. if you are outside of an office building, take cover away from the area. additional information will follow. >> here's what we know now. the driver who led police on the chase from the white house to the capitol and was ultimately shot while trying to make a getaway, she has died. but she was not alone in the car. she had her 1-year-old daughter in the backseat. the little girl is said to be okay and in protective custody this evening. we've also learned that the driver who has not been formally publicly identified is from stamford, connecticut. it didn't take long for investigators to swarm her home in search of clues as to why this all happened. we can't forget of course about the capitol police officer who
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was hurt while trying to keep others safe. that officer who was working without pay because of the government shutdown was released from the hospital a short time ago. our chief congressional correspondent dana bash was in the office of senate majority leader harry reid when the capitol complex went into lockdown this afternoon. thankfully everyone is okay for the most part. she joins us now. dana, tell us about your experience. >> reporter: well, that announcement that you just played was exactly what we heard in the office of the senate majority leader. it's not often that's where you're sitting at all as a reporter. it just so happened we were waiting to go do an interview with him. it was myself, several members of our crew, several of our producers. and we were trying to figure out frankly if it was a test or not. because there are sometimes actually often tests. but it became clear pretty soon that this was not a test, that this was not a drill, this was the real thing particularly as we started to see security move around, given where we were in
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the capitol. not just in harry reid's office but also physically harry reid's office is facing the west front of the capitol which if you see those pictures facing the quarter where this driver went into those barricades, where your right now, jake. so this is a system that was put 2 in place after 9/11. it's not used very much for the real thing. but to hear "shelter in place" and suddenly hear that shots were fired and not know, actually fit was in the capitol, at least at the beginning of course was very frightening. you mentioned the fact that these capitol police officers who rushed to the scene were not only heroic but they were heroic in the circumstances, and those circumstances are because of a government shutdown they're not getting paid. >> that's right, dana. when it was white house correspondent it happened periodically there would be a lockdown maybe once or twice a year some jerk would throw
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something over the fence or throw a firecracker. usually it was something that didn't turn out to be that big a deal. but they were very intense about security. you were referring to how often this happens that there are drills. how often does the capitol go into lockdown? >> reporter: not very often at all. in fact, you remember with the tragedy at the navy yard which was further away but not that far away, about a mile away, they didn't go into lockdown at all. it wasn't until maybe hours later that the senate decided to go into one and it was a little bit controversy because the house didn't. so that's the long way of saying not very often at all. >> all right, dana bash, thanks. we'll come back to you later in the program to hear some of that interview with senate majority leader harry reid about the government shutdown. for more on the shooting, however, we'll go right now to deborah feyerick in new york. she traveled to the suspect's family home earlier tonight in brooklyn. deb, what have you learned? >> reporter: new information for you, jake. according to a law enforcement source, the woman's boyfriend actually contacted police in
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december about ten months ago saying that he feareded for his infant daughter's safety. the boyfriend said the woman was acting delusional, claiming that president obama had placed her city of stamford, connecticut under lockdown and that he had also placed her house under electronic surveillance. now woman was questioned by police. she was taken in for a mental health evaluation. the boyfriend told police that she seemed to be suffering from some sort of postpartum depression, and that she was having difficulty sleeping. she had been on some kind of medication. the boyfriend now has been questioned by federal law enforcement and is cooperating fully. the source tells cnn that the woman also left a letter addressed to this boyfriend at her connecticut apartment. authorities initially deemed the letter suspicious because it appeared to have some sort of a white powder. so hazmat teams came. they removed the letter. it's being taken for testing. a robot was also brought into the apartment, this is in stamford, connecticut, the apartment building was evacuated. all the neighbors were taken out
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just as a precautionary measure. they wanted to make sure it wasn't bobby trapped. we are told federal agents and local police are now in the apartment, executing the search warrant. again that woman in the car with her child, nobody had any idea that the baby was there, as a matter of fact. what she was doing, why she was trying to contact police. all of that right now under investigation. we also know, jake, that family members who live in new york, live in brooklyn, are being questioned. and some of them at least are speaking to law enforcement, jake? >> deborah feyerick, thank you so much. let's bring in right now cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes, a form fbi assistant director. tom thanks for joining us. a lot of people at home are probably asking themselves tonight, was there any other way that this could have ended? she did not have a weapon, although clearly she was using her vehicle as a weapon. explain the threat assessment, the decision to use deadly force
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in a situation like this. >> well, i think, jake, in this situation she's the first person to attempt to use deadly force. she rammed her car into a police car, injured a police officer, then goes on a high-speed, reckless chase through the mall area of washington, d.c. heading for the capitol building. so it's clear that she's already decided to use that car as a weapon. and the police in this situation do not know what's inside that car. they don't know how many people, they don't know if there's explosives, if this is going to be a car bomb situation that could kill hundreds of people. so from their standpoint it is stop this person as soon as possible at all costs to reduce the threat to the public at large. >> and my understanding of what happened, tom, is that she first came in contact with law enforcement when she was at 15th and e right near the white house. she drove up to a checkpoint. the secret service approached her. she tried to get away.
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and that is when doing -- while doing a three-point turn she hit some of the barriers, hit a secret service officer causing him to be seriously bruised. i'm told he's okay. then she sped away. a couple of blocks away is when the secret service caught up with her. even before she got to the capitol she was somebody whose behavior had drawn the attention of law enforcement. she had already backed into a secret service officer. so before she even backed into one here as we saw in the video that we play, she already was known to law enforcement as using her car as a weapon. and when that happens, tom, does it automatically just -- if somebody is using their car and hitting law enforcement officers, is the decision made that person is using their car as a weapon? you have the authority to use force to stop him or her? >> yes. you would have the authority. because that person is using deadly force with their car and there may be no other way in your mind to stop that car before she maybe drives up on a
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sidewalk and starts running over tourists that are there or lawmakers that are outside by the capitol. so the fact that she's chosen to use her vehicle as a weapon really didn't leave them much choice as far as trying to stop her. and especially given the fact that it's downtown washington, d.c. so close proximity to the white house and then later to the capitol. that in this modern era you don't know if that car is full of explosives and could potentially kill hundreds of people. so they made a decision to stop that car at all costs. now, normally trained law enforcement officers are taught not to shoot at someone or shoot at a vehicle if you pose a risk to other innocent bystanders, the bullet may miss and go down the street and hit somebody else. they're weighing that in, that the risk to one or two or three people down the street or a block away is not as great as the potential risk to hundreds of people if there is explosives
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in that vehicle. >> that's right. the big fear, of course, always here in washington, d.c. a car bomb. cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes, thank you so much. we're going to take a quick break. when we come back on this special live half hour of cnn, closing in on day four of this government shutdown. our chief congressional correspondent dana bash as you know sat down with senate majority leader harry reid to see if compromise is even a word being used. and two savvy senators caught on an open mike. their revealing conversation still ahead. man: sometimes it's like we're still in college. but with a mortgage. and the furniture's a lot nicer. and suddenly, the most important person in my life is someone i haven't even met yet. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. as you plan your next step, we'll help you get there.
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day three of the government shutdown. and congressional leaders are
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under enormous pressure to resolve their differences. senate majority leader harry reid talked to our chief congressional correspondent dana bash. what he told her about finding a resolution to this mess. that's coming up next. my name is mike and i quit smoking. chantix... it's a non-nicotine pill. i didn't want nicotine to give up nicotine. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. [ mike ] when i was taking the chantix, it reduced the urge to smoke. [ male announcer ] some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these, stop taking chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it.
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(little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. what? (announcer) the two-thousand-fourteen subaru forester. (girl) what? (announcer) built to be there for your family. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. i have a big meeting when we land, but i am so stuffed up, i can't rest. [ male announcer ] nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose. they don't? alka seltzer plus night fights your worst cold symptoms, plus has a decongestant. [ inhales deeply ] oh. what a relief it is. welcome back to the special half hour of cnn. i'm jake tapper live from capitol hill where earlier today a woman set off a frenzied law enforcement response that locked down congress. when she crashed her car into a white house barricade and then
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there was a high-speed chase all the way here to capitol hill. you can see the workers behind me as they work to construct a barricade. all this is going on, of course, while washington is still trying to deal with a partial government shutdown that's kept most of the government closed for over 70 hours now. moments ago we learned that the president is cancelling his trip to asia because the white house says quote of the difficulty in moving forward with foreign travel in the face of a shutdown and his dem determination to continue pressing his case the republicans should allow to vote to reopen the government." john kerry will lead delegations to both countries. dana bash spoke to harry reid. what did he tell you? >> reporter: jake, we started out where we left off yesterday in a rather spirited exchange in the senate briefing room. >> you have used some pretty explosive terms to talk about the so-called tea party. you call them tea party anarchists, you called them
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whacky, the weird caucus. i've even talked to some liberals big supporters of yours saying that's going too far. are you stirring the pot with language like that? >> okay. anarchist? why in the world wouldn't i use the term anarchy? they're anarchists. they don't believe it government in any level. that's why we have members of congress over there today and yesterday saying, finally we're able to close the government. what else did i call them? >> the weird caucus. >> well r-- >> are you pledging to tone down the rhetoric a little bit? >> i'm not going to give up on the anarchists. there are people writing columns about this. that's what it is. they don't believe it government. that's why they want the government closed. this is not pitter pat see how nice you can be to everybody. you have to explain what you're trying to say. and there's no better description i can make than saying they don't believe in government, they're anarchists just like they were at the
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beginning of the 20th century. the difference is, i made very clear about this, they're not blowing up buildings and they're not killing people but they're throwing monkey wretches into the wheels of government. >> you understand legislating pretty much better than anybody around here. and you know in your heart of hearts that now john boehner is down this road, he accepted the idea that obama care should be attached to any kind of spending bill, the government is shut down. he's so far in. he needs somebody. he need a lifeline in order to save face, in order to agree. you're not giving him one inch. >> how about my lifeline? we agreed to $988 billion, $70 billion less than what my caucus voted for and agreed to. don't talk about his lifeline, talk about mine. that was really hard to do with my caucus. >> it seems as though just in my conversations with republicans and i think you heard this from the speaker himself in that private meeting at the white house with the president that they're moving away from obama
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care, looking ahead to the debt ceiling fight, talking at least on the debt ceiling talking about trying to revive some of the things you all had talked about. >> they're making that up. that didn't happen in the white house. they're making that up. >> so they're not talking about -- >> no. i saw the headline in the paper. grand bargain discussed. there wasn't a grand bargain discussed. i was there all the time. there's no staff around. just the five of us. >> let me get back it john boehner. this really has become personal. earlier today you said that he doesn't have courage. that's really tough stuff. that's really personal and talking about john boehner the man. >> well, dana, a question that i responded to was, don't you think that you should go along with some of the stuff that he wants? well, we know that they don't know what they want. we've had one congressman from indiana that says, they're not
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showing us respect. and we've got to get something out of this. but then he went on to say, but i don't know what we want. and that's john boehner. we don't know what he wants. we met last night at the white house. i talked to him yesterday after we wrote the letter. i gave him an offer. how could he refuse it? they've been asking us to negotiate. we agreed to negotiate. remember we already agreed to $70 billion cut. so i said yesterday, what do you want to talk about in my letter. you want to talk about farm bill? discretionary spending? you want to talk about health care? no limitations. let's do it. and he said no. only thing i'll talk about is obama care. so john boehner, for this -- his job is not as important as our country. >> reporter: and jake, he might be saying that he wants to talk about obama care, but we know actually outside of a meeting that boehner had with some of his key lieutenants and he was
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talking about a whole lot of other stuff, at least with them. moving ahead to the next fight on the debt ceiling about entitlement reform, things like that. >> dana bash, thank you so much. coming up, there are few things as refreshing as a politician caught on a hot mike. want to know how senator rand paul really feels about the shutdown? stay with us. [ male announcer ] when we built the cadillac ats from the ground up to be the world's best sport sedan... ♪ ...people noticed. ♪ the cadillac ats -- 2013 north american car of the year. lease this cadillac ats for around $299 per month with premium care maintenance included. that's why i take doctor recommended colace capsules. [ male announcer ] for certain medical conditions where straining should be avoided, colace softens the stool
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it's tv news 101 for politicians. when someone says hey i'm all wired up here, that means the microphone is on. and it's probably a bad time for an improm tu candid political strategy session. two kentucky senators, one hot mike. that's coming up next. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do.
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[ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need without any surprise fees. ♪ it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. welcome back to our cnn special coverage of the government shutdown. earlier we were talking about the shooting on capitol hill. i'm jake tapper. after a chaotic afternoon the parties are back to their talking points on the shutdown. but there's one unskrimted moment that caught our attention today. listen to this exchange between republican senators mitch mcconnell and rand paul talking strategy on a hot mike in the
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middle of a bunch of tv interviews. >> i'm all wired up here. >> on cnn i just go over and over again. we're willing to compromise. i don't think they poll tested we'll nobody. i think that's awful for them to say that over and over again. >> i do, too. i just came back from a two-hour meeting with them. that was basically the same view privately. >> i think if we keep saying we wanted to defund it. we fought for that. now we're willing to compromise on this. we're going to win. i know we don't want to be here but we're going to win this, i think. >> great. got it. they're going to win this? win this? is this perhaps a reference to the charlie sheen definition of winning and that no one actually wins and it all ends up incredibly sad? dana bash, want to bring you back. what's your take on this moment between the two senators? >> reporter: it's a lesson for all of us, jake. when we have microphones on they
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are's always on. someone's always listening. in terms of -- obviously like a fly on the wall. you actually get to listen to the private conversation. so that was very interesting. unfortunately we didn't hear much that we didn't know, them talking about the fact that democrats are wrong about the fact that the negotiation, that they're not going to negotiate but just to watch that was pretty awesome, wasn't it? >> it was interesting also. i mean again you say nothing surprising but nice to hear them talking candidly. and also they think that they have a winning message. and that obviously indicates why they're doing what they're doing. dana bash, thanks so much. thanks for joining me tonight. i'm jake tapper. i'll be back here tomorrow on capitol hill. crossfire is up next. have a safe night. tonight on "crossfire." who's winning? the republicans? >> the president's refusal to work in a bipartisan way has led
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us to this shutdown. >> or the democrats. >> take a vote. stop this first and end the shutdown right now. >> on the left, stephanie cutter. on the right, newt gingrich. in the crossfire, democratic congresswoman sheila jackson link who wants the government reopened without conditions. and republican michaelly who wants the president to negotiate. keep the government closed or shut down the politics. tonight on "crossfire." >> welcome to "crossfire." i'm newt gingrich on the right. >> and i'm stephanie cutter on the left. joining us tonight are democratic congresswoman sheila jackson of texas and republican congressman of pennsylvania. tonight i can make a republican make my case. >> talking about the tea party caucus? >> not tea party caucus. not at all. it's a lemming caucus. it's guys who meet privately. they're always conspiring. it's mostly just about power. and it's just gotten us nowhere.
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>> congressman kelly, now i don't know if he's talking about you. but i do have a question. you know, the writing is on the wall. i agree with congressman nunes. this isn't about anything but political power. and republicans are jumping ship because they know they're losing on this. why doesn't the speaker just bring this to a vote with a bipartisan majority and end the shutdown? >> i think it's an easy thing to say but a hard thing to do. >> why? >> because our conference is made up of a lot of diverse people, diverse personalities and they have different views. i admire the speaker for letting everybody get up and say what they have to say and come together. i think one thing lost in the debate. it's not about either party. the unforgotten party here is the american people. so we say so what's best for the american people. as we go forward what's best for the american people. and i think the founders were very clear from the beginning, you can have legislation. some legislation is not good.
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they've given us different mechanisms to try and push back on things we don't think are basically fair. fair to me means, listen, nobody gets favor over somebody else. >> you're talking about the health care law. >> i'm talk about almost everything we do in government. because government cannot pick and choose winners. what they should do is pick and choose the best thing for america. >> there are lots of people losing in this shutdown. >> i understand. >> let's bring this to a slightly different topic. speaker boehner announced today to your republican caucus in the house that we're two weeks away from hitting the debt limit, two weeks from today. he announced that he is going to bring that to a vote with a bipartisan majority. he is not going to adhere to the tea party caucus and not play to them and put strings on the debt limit. do you agree with that approach? do you think we should pass a clean debt limit? >> the speaker is the speaker of the house. he's representing both parties. he's a republican i understand that. but mrs. jackson lee and i are here we have a passion for protecting children and look together future. we were both at an event last week on pediatric cancer.
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i have never met a member yet they thought was not a good american. i think the speaker by sag we're going to the entire house, get input from those people and do something that makes sense. >> you agree with him that the tea party is not going to hold america hostage on the debt limit. he should bring a vote with a bipartisan majority? you agree with him? >> i agree we have a process that allows everybody to be heard. >> so you don't agree with that. >> dealing in hypotheticals is always fun but not often factual. >> let me ask congresswoman lee about holding hostage. the house has passed at least four targeted continuing resolutions that are narrow and clean, one of them on d.c. you actually voted for. they're all now being held hostage by harry reid, who refuses to allow any of them to come to a vote, even though it's very likely all of them would pass the senate if he'd allow them to come to a vote. don't you think senator reid owes it to the country to also allow the things that the house has passed to come to a vote?
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isn't harry reid at least as guilty of holding things hostage? >> well, newt, good to be with you and good to be with you certainly for all that you all have done. let me first say my best wishes are to the police officer would was injured. >> absolutely. >> and certainly to our brave men and women and to the tragedy and the tragedy that developed around this particular person, we wish the family well. obviously people are frustrated here in america not knowing the facts of this issue. i am like-wise on the homeland security committee. but let me say this. hostage taking is a two-way street. and i would not say that majority leader harry reid is doing anything than what he said he was going to do. and that is, along with the democratic caucus in the house, we want to open the government. plain and simple. and newt, we were there together. you were my speaker. and i had to respect your leadership.
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and we did. and when the house went into or the government went into a shutdown, it is well-known that you and president clinton were talking about the budget. this did not start out about the budget. this is about a law that is the law of the land that the republicans insist on defunding. we have as much as 2 trillion plus -- excuse me, 2 million plus that have already accessed health we have the affordable care act working. we have a victim of diabetes or someone suffering from diabetes who said i thought i could never get health insurance in texas. 61 years old. she now has health insurance today. so no, i would not say that we are in essence homing these divisive, small bills hostage. what the majority leader is saying, what the president is saying after having cut almost $2 trillion through the sequester, raising the tax rates, we have compromised. now is a time to segregate an issue of disagreement over a
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law, just like the civil rights act of 1964, and 65, the voting rights act, many disagreed with it. then the next thing is, let's go forward with a budget law -- excuse me -- a bill that in essence opens the government. i'm ready to do it right now. >> sure. >> and have it done. and then begin the process of the appropriations process. >> everybody on your side has their talking points down. prepared to say gee if only boehner would surrender and republicans surrender i'd be happy tonight. >> i don't call it surrender. standing for america. >> doing the right thing. >> but in a period where we are -- we should be negotiating, as you said, in 1995 and '96 we were negotiating. >> we already negotiated. i just want to state that. >> absolutely. >> we send the budget cuts that the republicans wanted. what we're voting on is the republican budget. >> so one side gets to define when negotiations occur. >> no. they might not want to recognize that the president has already negotiated. >> what you're saying is the majority of the house is irrelevant because the democrats
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have decided -- >> the majority ofs house have negotiated the budget cuts and that's what we're voting on. they can't take yes for an answer. as the congresswoman pointed out, this isn't about the budget it's about the health care law which has been the law now for three years. 2 million people have accessed the law. 7 million have sought information about it. it's making a difference. we voted on it 40 times in the house. >> 43 times. >> so that is negotiation. you haven't won. >> because negotiations can start out here and come together. is there nothing in this massive law that could even be considered for improvement that could be put on the table as something that would begin to break the deadlock? >> we're legislators here. three of us are legislators here. one tells us how to legislate. but three of us are legislators. in the executive making just a humorous statement. but there's always -- there's always improvements that can be
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made to any law. not now. this is not the time to do that. we're on the precipice of brick bringing to our niece our government our people. this about the people. 800,000 government works who do services for the american people. the national guard in texas and many other places, they're good friends of mine. who are not able to be paid or trained. police officers who now put their life on the line as we evidenced from the secret service to the d.c. police and to the capitol police were ready to put their lives on the line depending on what the situation was are in a position where they have to lay off essential or nonessential as they may determine and all of them are essential workers. here's what i'm saying, newt. i want these two letters to be put into evidence if you will. one from the democratic leadership in the house and one from the majority leader in the senate that says to our good speaker, if i might say, all we need to do is to put that bill on the floor. we will have the house open. and then the legislative regular
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order is in place. issues about the affordable care act that i might be willing to listen to, i think it is going pretty well but there are issues that could be discussed. and this whole appropriations process could rightly be one that we would find some common ground as we've done. i voted for defense of appropriations over the years. some might say a progressive. but i've seen common ground. and frankly, right now homeland security is suffering. and i think we can do that once we open the government. >> i know. but i think we're forgetting something very important here. my whole life, i'm an automobile dealer. i know how to negotiate because that's the way i've stayed alive. but i've never ever gone into a room to compromise with somebody when the first thing out of their mouth is, just to let you know, i'm not compromising on anything. >> on the affordable care act. >> this law, this law, the president, the last eight months, he has found and the administration have found different pieces of it that they say well, you know what, it's okay but this part's not okay. and i think when you sit back and take a look at this, this is such a huge piece of
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legislation. i have constituents calling me. one woman called me today talking about her and her daughter riley who can no longer afford the health care they had and paying themselves. she started a business on her own. her daughter's working in a supermarket. she bought her own health care. it was $70 a month. it's going to triple now. all these things that we talk about. if you like the health care you're on you can keep it. not true. it's going to reduce your monthly premium? not true. there are so many things about this where the open conversation of doing what's best for the american people. and i just say this. i absolutely want to compromise. i've not talked to within member who's relishing the thought this country is shut down right now and we are trying to do on a piece meal basis as items come across we will find ways to fund them. i find it objectionable when people say all or nothing. all or nothing. you guys lost. the law was passed. judge roberts was very articulate when he said, look, it's constitutional. we can't prevent the people from electing legislators that pass
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bad laws. but the founders gave us mechanisms that we can push back on. and when we see something that's not wrong, when we see something that's not going to achieve what it was supposed to achieve, then that's our job. we have to do that as legislators and we have to meet and we have to talk civilly. because when i first came to congress -- >> all of that we want to do. >> if i might, let me break in because we have to take a breck for a second. this is not the apocalypse. i was here the last 12 times the government shutdown. next, you're going to be shocked at how normal this process is. ♪ man: [ laughs ] those look like baby steps now.
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welcome back to "crossfire." we're finishing the third day of this government shutdown. tomorrow will be the fourth. and it won't be the apocalypse. under the american system, this is the process you go through when you have profound differences. one side won the presidency, the other side won the house of representatives. it's happened over and over. in fact, speaker tip o-neill had 12 shutdowns while he was speaker, some under president jimmy carter, some under president ronald reagan. i understand the pressure to try to get it done. i understand among democrats there's a deep desire to not negotiate. but in fact, isn't this a legitimate part of the struggle for power under our constitutional system? >> i think you raise a good point. we do have a process of give and take when there is a majority juxtaposed against a minority. in this instance, a divided congress with the senate and the
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house. however, those were budget discussions about the budget. let me tell you why i believe that this is the wrong direction. we came across this hill in 2011 with what was now the sequester. after a bipartisan group of members bicameral could not come to a conclusion. why? because a contingent of tea party. we have already cut 2.5 trillion plus with tax cuts and other cuts to this government. i heard a congressman who is a ranking member on defense appropriations say that we cannot run the pentagon anymore in the kind of limited budgeting that is going on. in actuality, the government is growing, and therefore we should invest in this government. so we have an issue of the law that is the obama care being juxtaposed against an intelligent discussion about how we take this country forward in its budget and appropriations process. i will be with the discussion,
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the even-handed discussion or the volatile discussion on the budget and appropriations. but let go of the victim of the affordable care act. let it go. because as you indicated about small business, my good friend did, we have a small businesswoman who just found insurance $7,500 less than what she had before. so we can all find anecdotal stories. it is working. let's get through. and here i am with my -- i've got the 17 votes listed, members, republican members who in actuality said, we will go with your membership and our good speaker can bring to the floor this clean bill. and we'll have that government open. and i will engage with my good friend on the debate about how we appropriate and what kind of budget we have. >> so let's go back to the republican strategy here, congressman kelly. there's a new cbs poll out that shows a couple of things. one, the american people don't agree with your strategy. 78% are against shutting down the government over the affordable care act, obama care. but what's even more surprising
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in the poll is that a real split among republicans. i've never seen anything like this. 48% approve of shutting down the government. but 49% disapprove of shutting down the government. so there's a real split. now, inside those numbers is the tea party. 57% approves of shutting down the government. doesn't this just show that you are held hostage, your party is held hostage to a minority faction in your caucus? >> absolutely not. when you look at the constitution and you look about everything that's in the constitution, it's not about protecting the government from the people. it's about protecting the people from the government. i would just say that a lively debate -- >> a lot of people don't agree with you. >> that's one poll. i'm all for polls. >> i think they all say that. >> if i were to ask you, how do you feel about shutting down the government. you'd have a hard time finding people to say i think it's a great idea. so why are we looking and what are we trying to fix? and in my whole purpose of this, if you don't get this economy fixed, if you don't get a
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vibrant and robust economy, all the rest is just talk you. know what supports this health care plan? a vibrant economy. what are we holding back? >> you know what the shutdown is costing? 300 million a day. >> when you tell somebody that no longer 40 hours is a full work week, it's now 30. i've talked to people when i come out of mass on sunday in western pennsylvania, out of my k mart and my walmart and talk to people and they say would you please get this fixed for us. i would agree with you. shutting down the government is something most people don't like. but i would also say, if we're not moving in the right direction to fix everything for every american and we're not going to get it done this. piece of legislation is so big and so comprehensive, we still don't even have all the -- >> let me ask you about the republican strategy. i still don't quite understand. as the congresswoman said, there are numerous republicans who have broken with their party with, their speak for say to democrats we will vote with you and pass a clean budget bill with no strings attached. about the budget, not the affordable care act. we can't shut down the government any longer.
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the american people don't want it and it's costing us. if the speaker brought a clean bill to the floor and passed it with a bipartisan majority, you haven't said whether you would support it. but a bigger question is, would you support speaker boehner as speaker? would you stick with him as speaker? >> absolutely. and why wouldn't i? since i've been here, i've never seen anybody that has a better, more respect for the house. now, that wasn't true. i mean, you can take this back one more session and you can find out before the election, the wave election when miss p l pillpill pilosi was in, there was no discussion. there was no debate. >> i thought the house was pretty well run. >> wait a minute. speaker boehner has been very good to let everybody come forward. the process, the committee work. >> as a result -- >> this government wasn't designed to go one way or the other. >> no, it's not. but it is trying to get something done. >> i'm with you. but i got to tell you, get something done we can.
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but we've got to be open minded. >> let me just challenge both of you on this democratic fantasy for a second. the fact is, if you allowed a free vote in the senate you would clearly already have repealed the tax on medical devices, you'd clearly already have the keystone pipeline implemented. a whole series of things. what you have is a game. everybody says let's do the regular legislative process except harry reid who says he's going to stop everything in the senate. the negotiation didn't have to even be on the continuing resolution. the president and senator reid could have said, look, if you've you'll give as you clean continuing resolution here are the nine things we'll let go through the senate. you have had not a single commitment that anybody could trust that harry reid would let things through the senate and that the president would sign it. now you have the republicans in the house. you say what are our tools? you only have two tools. the continuing resolution, the power to spend and the debt ceiling. those are the only two tool you have that the president can't hide from and harry reid can't win on. that's why this is a mess.
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and the president's response has been to attack republicans, to have no negotiations. it's the opposite of bill clinton in 1995. >> but newt, please. the president has been one of the most conciliatory negotiators over a period of time. and i have to correct my good friend. i was here during the passage of the affordable care act which went through regular order which both houses, the senate and the house, asked for republican input, asked for amendments. allowed them to have it. it went through. what this has not gone through which is the hearing process. and as well, the mock up process which technically if you look at the morning show that's on abc that talks about how you do a bill, cartoon, you know what bills are. but what i would say to you is that we went through the regular order. our speaker, speaker pillow pilosi was an excellent speaker. we had the most number of bills
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that actually helped people including the g.i. bill that helped returning soldiers. >> what you're telling me is a successful agenda. >> i let you speak so let me say this. >> go ahead. >> newt has made a point about agenda and who sets the agenda for the different houses. and it is the majority leader. and what i would say to you, however, is that i don't see the majority leader suggesting that he would hold those bills hostage in order to make an agreement on whether the government opens or not. this is what we're talking about. we're talking about putting -- you're saying those are the only tool that is we have. what we're saying is is that the priority of the american people are far more important, far more important than bills that we have a long period of time to be able to debate. and is it right for mcconnell and senator paul to be in the corner saying, if we hold on we can win this? poor words if i might say. the only people losing in this is the american people. put a clean bill on the floor
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and let's open the government. >> let me just say there's no evidence for the first nine months of this year that harry reid was going to be reasonable about moving this stuff. none. we had nine months to get this stuff solved. you may think the president is conciliatory as a negotiator. i don't believe you'll find a single republican in either the house or senate that would agree with you. so there's a huge gap about reality here. and i think that's a big part of what we're looking at. >> so you're not getting what you want so you throw a tantrum and the american people have to pay. that's essentially what you just said. >> no. what i said is under the constitution when you have the house you have the power of the purse and the president has to negotiate with you. and calling to say i will not negotiate is not a very good way to start. >> i think the republicans have blinders on. because this president has negotiated. sequester is a large example of negotiation. >> we've got to go. thank you to representative sheila jackson lee and michaelly. >> thank you. >> next we "ceasefire" and we take a trip back to the days when newt had dark hair.
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on the right track. the power tools introduce themselves. all the bits and bulbs keep themselves stocked. and the doors even handle the checkout so we can work on that thing that's stuck in the thing. [ female announcer ] today, cisco is connecting the internet of everything. so everyone goes home happy.
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before we go, a quick trip back in time. courtesy of newt's visit with jay leno last night. >> i got to ask you about this photo. i think you tweeted this photo. look at that. kind of a -- punk conservative rock band look? what's going on there? >> i think i just started teaching at west georgia college. and van jones came up with a picture of him in an afro as a
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college student. the folks at "crossfire" said we've got to match this. i did my best which was sideburns but not an afro. >> and since no one who tuned in last night got to seat picture of van jones way back when, here it is. >> wow. >> now, i do want the audience to know that we're not going to discriminate, but we also want to ask both stephanie and s.e. to find a suitably -- >> nobody asked about that before the show. >> a suitably appropriate picture that we'll be able to share with you at some point in the not too distant future. >> let's just say we all had our bad years. >> or decades in my case. so go to facebook or twitter to weigh in on our fire back question. should president obama cancel his entire asia trip due to the government shutdown? right now, 71% of you say yes, 29% of you say no. >> the debate continues online
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at as well as face book and twitter. from the left i'm stephanie cutter. >> from the right, i'm newt gie gingrich. join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." we'll be joined by jesse ventura we'll be joined by jesse ventura and howard dean. -- captions by vitac -- welcome to the viewers in the united states and around the world. a town hall special. breaking news in washington as parties battled inside the capitol and that's obviously why we're here tonight, there was panic outside.