tv Piers Morgan Live CNN November 4, 2013 9:00pm-10:01pm PST
massive police presence still on scene. the fbi has also arrived. we will continue to follow developments. that's all for our coverage at this hour. i want to thank kevin flanagan for his experience and joining us as well as mike brooks. cnn will be live all night as needed following developments as this is "piers morgan live." big one is of course in 2016. all the smart money is now saying that chris christie will run, especially if he does what people expect tomorrow. but his tough talk is raising some eyebrows. did chris christie call newt gingrich a joke that couldn't be taken seriously? >> well, tonight for the first time you will be live with me to fire back. look at him, looking angry, i can promise it will be lively and absolutely no holds barred. plus, is the nfl scandal
really about hazing? a former miami nfl dolphins star fires back. and more on a conspiracy to kill jfk. >> you calling the president a murderer? >> if i'm so far from the truth, why is the fbi bugging our offices? why are witnesses being bought off and murdered? >> now, 50 years later after the event that changed america, oliver stone tells me why he believes that oswald didn't do it alone. more on the elections in new york, new jersey and virginia, cnn reporter joins me, peter, this book, "double down" is creating huge waves in washington, what are the juiciest parts you unearthed in the last for years.
>> one big thing that came out, you mentioned chris christie, somebody in the romney campaign apparently turned over their vice presidential vetting file and they put that in the book. one, that is pretty brazen, that never happens, these things usually go in a vault and don't leak. one thing that is perhaps more important as chris christie moves forward and thinks about running, there are more important things such as the justice department investigation. he lobbyed for a securities firm. one interesting nugget in the book, the romney campaign apparently referred to the vice presidential search process which was top secret as "project gold fish," and christie's nickname was puffer fish. they had a variety of names, fish consin, for wisconsin.
i should say, though, piers, a number of people from both parties are casting doubt on the situation. i talked to beth myers, she for one said she never heard of project gold fish or any of these nicknames, so that is just one person starting to poke holes in some of the accounts. >> we know that according to the book, chris christie called mitt romney at one stage, when newt gingrich won big in the primary. he said get out of your crouch and kick the [ bleep ] out of this guy. that is what you should do, he is a joke and you're allowing him to be taken seriously. which is the advice that mitt romney acted on, launching the mother of all attack campaigns against poor old newt gingrich in florida. what do we make of this? quite hard when you read that about yourself, isn't it? >> yeah, one thing the authors are good at, peeling back to
curtain and taking us into the room for private conversations. and look, it is no surprise that a lot of people support mitt romney didn't like newt gingrich. so it is not surprising to hear chris christie say these things. but again, chris christie is increasingly a problematic figure in the conservative movement, on the right. so to hear him take a swipe at somebody who is pretty popular among conservatives, that is something he may have to answer for in the coming years. >> we'll hear what newt gingrich has to say in just moments. but what is the tea leaf reading position on tomorrow? any surprises in store? is it pretty much in the bag? >> it is pretty much in the bag, the two races as they are in the off-off year, the new jersey governor race, and there is speculation that bill de blasio is going to win, the first time
a democrat has won since 1989. and in new jersey, chris christie will roll up a 20, maybe 30-point win over democrat, barbara buono, one race that they're talking about, alabama's first congressional district, why do we care? it is a republican run off between bradley burn, against the tea party aligned christian conservative named dean young, if he wins he will be one of the most conservative ones. he will be a provocative figure to watch in the next few years. >> a birther, just what we all need. thank you very much. and newt gingrich, you have been sitting patiently with a fixed smile on your face, trying
to work out a smart way dealing with the fact that chris christie seems to have absolutely trashed you in this phone call to mitt romney, calling you a joke. you can't be taken seriously. and that you he should get off his crouch and kick the devil out of you. what is your reaction? >> it was a tough campaign. chris christie was on the other side. he talks about like he talks. i don't have any reaction. i think this book is typical of why washington can't get anything done. it is all gossip, all innuendo, and all junk, and it will do well for two weeks and everybody will be talking about it. and as you know, i wrote a new book called "breakout" which actually talks about new ideas and situations. i hope chris christie is successful talking to you from new jersey, where i think he will roll to a new victory. certainly, i think republicans ought to take him seriously as a
presidential candidate, but what really matters is how will he fix all of this stuff? what will he do in the real world of washington to fix things? so i don't worry very much about his supposed private comments, as supposedly related to two reporters who are very good at getting lots of publicity for themselves. >> as he -- chris christie, contacted you to say sorry or explain himself? >> no, i couldn't care less, and he couldn't care less. i'm a big boy and he is a big boy. he was off doing other things when i helped to create the first majority in the house in 40 years. he was off doing other things when we reformed welfare, and he was off doing other things when we passed the only four balanced budgets in a row in your lifetime. so i am comfortable. what i want to engage chris christie in is a conversation about real solutions and ideas, because no matter what the
personalities are in washington, the country will continue to decay if things are not changed. and here is, for better or worse, the man of the moment. >> he is about to win pretty solidly on tuesday, his record in new jersey is solid. he is a very popular governor in a very blue state. that is the kind of popularity and the track record the republican party needs if we're going to take back the white house. >> what is fascinating, newt, about chris christie is the appeal he has among democrats. i read 30% of them may be prepared to vote for him tomorrow, which is extraordinary. but does that show you somebody he claims to be a great partisan dealer, that he can work with the opposition and get things done? that does seem to be backed up by the way he has run things over there. does that all go well if he is the republican nominee, that can
race for the white house if he has that ability? >> well, as you know because we talked about it before, i think governors have the advantage in running for the nomination in 2016. i think people are sick of washington, they don't see anything positive happening in washington. so i think governor christie, governor kasich and governor walker, they will have a huge advantage in deciding, governor perry, jindal, i don't know which of them will end up as the nominee. but i suspect they have the advantage, somebody like rand paul has a nationwide opposition and is a formidable player. the challenge would be to manage that process so you don't end up with a third party among disaffected conservatives. i don't think you have to pander to them or be as conservative as they are. but you have to be aware of the
fact that there are a lot of people in america who are deeply conservative and who are very upset about washington. and if they saw the republican party getting quote, a moderate, i think you would have a third party overnight. on the other hand, if you had had a for-change, aggressive reformer, then there may be actually a way to forge a conservative party with hillary clinton. >> let's play a quick clip from chuck schumer, who said basically, the time is right. >> but 2016 is hillary's time. run, hillary, run, if you run, you'll win and we'll all win. >> is there any doubt, newt, do you think that she will run? hillary clinton? >> look, there is always a doubt because you have no idea what will happen in the next two years. but i would say to republicans and conservatives, and this is again part of why i wrote "breakout."
i think it is very important not to worry about hillary. it is very important to focus on what america needs, what can we do as a dramatic change to help the future some if hillary gets trapped as defending the old order, she will lose, republicans have to do a lot of soul-searching. >> what is interesting about your book, i have a bug bear about, that is bureaucracy, which i think is beginning to cripple america in a bad way from somebody like china, for example. why is america so concerned about the bureaucracy? is it driven by fear of being sued, paranoia? >> well, i think you need to recognize that the civil service model is gone, it is crippling us.
that all of these interest groups, lobbyists, are a net handicap. look at the f-35 fighter plane, which is hugely over cost to run, yet nobody is reforming it. nobody is looking at it seriously. and we're putting together at newt gingrich productions, a whole breakout, for a series of examples that we think, for example, the budget conference that is meeting this week ought to look seriously at these new ideas and approaches. ought to recognize that we need to think our way out of the current problems, not just either cut things or raise taxes, but actually have new and better ways of doing things. >> i mean, the key thing for america is to somehow i guess work out what the new business model will be, both in terms of manufacturing, what type of thing it will produce, where it produces it. education, how it removes itself
from the bottom of the ladder in some many things like literacy. it is really awful where america arrived at, given where it was 30 or 40 years ago. >> yeah, and a lot of that is the function of government bureaucracy, employee unions. when you look at something like a company that signed a contract with georgia tech to take a $70,000 residential master's degree in computer science and turn it into a $7,000 on-line degree, that is a 90% reduction. imagine that in student loan costs. you have a program with a brand-new company which thinks they can take $170 billion out of the cost of medicare and medicaid. $157 billion over the next ten years, that is the kind of thing the budget conference ought to look at in the coming years.
we take you through breakouts of very exciting developments outside washington and raise the question why don't we have some political movement, republican, democrat, or bipartisan, designed to take these new bold ideas and apply them to solving our problems. >> and if chris christie could win, and appoint you, newt gingrich as one of his key men, removing any residual issues. great to talk to you, the epic battle to decide america's fate. newt gingrich, always great to have you on the show. coming up, in the nfl, i'll ask a former miami dolphin's linebacker what goes on behind doors? and more on the scandal and the kennedy scandal, live and unleashed. . d"
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scandal that seems to be growing and growing, the dolphins suspended him for what they call conduct detrimental to the team. this could be the last straw for incognito, who was once called the nfl's dirtiest player. and thank you for joining us. jonathan martin is 6'5", 315 pounds. he is a big lad. and from what i gather from the nfl, it is not actually the exception, there is normally an incognito lurking somewhere. what do you make of this? has martin over reacted, or is incognito's behavior completely unacceptable? >> well, thank you for having me, piers, i was telling people all day, people want to compare the nfl to working at the neighborhood walgreens or being
a teacher at a school. the nfl environment are a bunch of testosterone-filled alpha males who are trying to find their place on the totem pole, it is like that in locker room, they went to college, became the greatest players in college, and now they're the 1% of 1% in the world that can play this game at a high level. they have to prove what people call their manhood, on a daily basis. every time you walk in the locker room, there is a totem pole, a wolf pack, you need to find where you are. i don't think jonathan martin was comfortable with that, going to a private school, stamford, he was around a high, intellectual -- lot of intellectual people, then you get around a bunch of great football players that may not have that high character and intelligence that a lot of
stanford and harvard people have. >> what is richie incognito like, he fancies himself as a big, hard lump, but what is he like in the locker room? is he deeply unpleasant as everyone tries to say he is? >> he is a guy that needs to know his place with you. he came on the team. i was kind of that alpha male on the team when i got there. the funny thing is, when you have a bunch of alphas, they either fight or gain an alliance. he tries to test you to see if you have enough manhood, testosterone, to say richie, you're not going to go that deep with me. and put that line in the dirt. i don't know if jonathan put that line there or knew he was being tested. he jumped into situation being a
very good guy, around a bunch of guys coming from a lot of non-stanford like standings. richie got in trouble with other teams, one of the top dirtiest players. he was an alpha of the alphas, and jonathan martin was not used to it. this is an unprecedented accusation. bullying, and now we see the text messages and jonathan martin couldn't deal with it. >> and some of the messages are pretty vile, some of them are racial slurs, the voice mails, with him threatening to beat him up. also, if you check richie's feed, the taunting of martin, he said back in april, rather large scale embarrassment, laugh now, cry later, rookie, with some embarrassing picture. starts to call him big weirdo, barely fits in the go-cart, shot
out to j martin. that talk is pretty offensive if you work in a place like cnn, but as you rightly say, in a testosterone-filled locker room, with guys wearing padding and smashing into rivals in the football match, not that uncommon. you're painting a picture, not so much i suspect as bullying, so much as this is what goes on and you have to be tough enough to deal with it? >> the nfl is the test every sunday of who the biggest, the strongest, the fastest. if that is not the most caveman, barbaric thing you can do, you work out, get big enough, strong enough, you can be successful at this game. but it is that separation from football to life. in retrospect, i look back, i'm retired.
i say that was very childish, immature, but i confirmed. like i say, i was one of the alphas at the time. it is different in society. the thing with the racial slurs, that would have affected me. the n word being used by richie, it affects me being an african-american man. but even in the locker room, we saw that thing by riley pierce, that that is okay. you can come back, and in a walgreens, not a university, he would be fired. but you're a pretty good wide receiver, we'll let you slip on that racial slur. that is when i heard that story, i said people don't understand the locker room, they're trying to compare it to middle school. this is a bunch of 20 to 30-year-old millionaires that are very cocky. >> and final question, i want a
quick answer if you could, if you were going into battle with the new york giants and could choose either richie incognito or jonathan martin alongside you, who would you go for? >> i would go with martin, real quickly when they're trying to get a job, jonathan martin is a middle tier left tackle, and richie is a pro bowl. richie will have a job, i'm worried about jonathan. >> that is fascinating, inside the locker room of the dolphins. i'm sure the story will rumble on. >> thank you so much, sir. coming up, from everything to obama care and the nfl and jfk. the 50th anniversary, joining me live, right now, in fact.
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look at the guy next to you. look into his eyes. now, i think you're going to see a guy who will go that inch with you. you're going to see a guy who will sacrifice himself for this team because he knows when it comes down to it, you're going to do the same for him. that is a team, gentlemen! >> hell yeah. >> one of the greatest sports motivational speech in the history of movies. al pacino, and the miami
dolphins, joining me now, oliver stone. his book is in paperback and dominance. welcome back, oliver, i always love having you on the show. like a volcano, i'm always slightly apprehensive, but thoroughly enjoy it. >> now, you said the coaches use it to pump up their football team and hockey team. >> it is one of the greatest speeches in movie history. but what do you make of the miami dolphin thing? is it possible to threaten a 315 pound -- >> i was a little surprised by this. you see these men can take care of themselves, you get a flashy guy like the richard sherman of the seahawks, you know he is in trouble. they're going to go for him. i don't think anybody can be a bully in the nfl. i don't think that on the field either. if you start to step out of line they come for you. i'm not as worried about that.
i would be more worried about politics and the united states as a bully, more than a football player. >> let's talk about issues, the nsa, i want to play a clip. >> nsa includes the interception. >> including audios, documents, chat logs, and e-mails. >> everybody is at risk for getting caught up in the nsa dragnet. >> here is a question for you, oliver, i know you have been pretty strong about this. if you were the president of the united states, how far would you allow the nsa to do their work, how would you draw the line? >> he has been far more eloquent about the issue, it is a line we cannot cross and we crossed it.
>> where is the line, where should we be? >> there is a moral integrity that we have to respect. everybody has a right. you can't sell this idea that we're protecting you against the terrorists as greenwald has. the terrorists are a small group of people. and we have bugged the whole world, put all -- the hay stack is all there, and anything goes. and into the future. and that is what concerns me the most, because even if obama is a reasonable man, what if we did have a terror incident of major proportions, or there was another president that comes in, call it to the right of obama, like bush. they will go back and search the records, everything that is in the air, reforms, protests, labor union activities, anything would be subject to revision by the government. >> you would be pretty disappointed by president obama, even describing his administration as tyranny. >> well, this is a form of tyranny.
they're going into your mind, it is like that movie "minority report." you know, not only do we have the most massive military security complex in the world, but on top of it, we're in the minds. we have our hands around the throat of almost every nation in the world. but now we're into their heads, listening in. i mean, it is scary, you read orwell, you're english, it is the future. we'll be living in a depressed, demoralized state. we'll be safe, and they talked about the terrorists coming to get us, they keep the population cowed and feared. >> do you think mlk, a spiritual man, ruthlessly surveyed by hoover's fbi would look obama in the eye today and wonder what went wrong? >> i would say so. obama promised transparency. and martin luther king jr., was one of the most bugged men in america.
they followed his movements night and day. he was at the apex of a giant civil rights organization, on top of that he took on the vietnam war in 1965. when he did that, he combined it. saying the black troops in vietnam are killing colored people in that country and they can't get any rights at home. he had had a valid point. he also said we spent 300,000 plus dollars to kill every viet cong, and spend $50 on every poor america. >> when you see obama saying, promising if you want to keep your doctor, you can. and now he has done this qualification, a lot of people are seeing that. what do you think -- >> i didn't know enough about that. i was disappointed when he said you can trust us. he implied we'll fix this thing. and it is like, you know that he
is lying. and on top of it, you asked earlier, is had he in control of it? i don't think that he is, he himself may have been in for a few surprises, because i think the nsa is a beast of its own like the pentagon. and when it goes into the technology, of course you are going to use everything that is there. there is no boundaries. and that is why these senators, these outside senators. it is very important that we pass legislation. even the republican who had a lot to do with the patriot act has called for the repeal of the patriot act. jim sensenbrenner, one of the once regarding the patriot act -- >> let's take a break and talk about jfk. the 50th anniversary of his death coming up in a couple of weeks. i want to get your take. everybody personifies you with that, with the brilliant movie you made. and let's talk about the project you're involved with, martin luther king jr., which i think we can reveal a few secrets about.
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you calling the president a murderer? >> if i'm so far from the truth, why is the fbi bugging our offices, why are our witnesses being murdered? >> i don't -- maybe there is some rogue element in the government or something. >> a conspiracy to cover it up? >> oliver stone's 1992 film, "jfk," which won two oscar nominations. the film has been re-released. back tonight, oliver stone to begin our month-long series, jfk. and some fantastic stuff here, this is a limited edition of the immortal movie. let me ask you, you were 17 when jfk was assassinated. where were you? >> i was in boarding school. i believed the official story, it was just part of the sadness at the time.
i didn't realize that i would be going to vietnam. my father was republican, i was raised conservative. it was in the '80s that i started to really push into these filmmaking, films like "jfk," progressive films. >> by the way, it is brilliant. i haven't seen all of it. i want to watch the whole thing from start to finish. but the stuff i did see, a really shocking piece of american history and i really want people to watch it. to learn about american history. >> it is really not conventional, i did it for my family, my daughter, i wanted to push, we went with the revisionist theories, that came into the 1959, and 60 periods, they started to question the cold war, the whole thing with the soviet union. it was a powerful piece of history.
>> is america a better or worse country now than it was in the '60s? >> that is a -- from my point of view, i didn't know what i knew then. if i know now what i knew then, i don't know that i would have enjoyed the '60s, because i went to vietnam and came back to a situation filled with strife. but the country accelerated into a position quickly after world war ii. a prime position, two presidents, older men built up this country to enormous proportions. we were beyond anybody, dominant in the world. and kennedy, as a young man as we show in this chapter about kennedy, the difficulty he was facing, the military machine was so huge. there was this thinking at the time we have to go get the soviets now, destroy them, because if we don't they will build up and come close to parity --
>> let's watch a bit of this documentary. >> we may never know who was responsible or what their motive was, but we do know that kennedy's enemies included some of the same forces who would cut down henry wallace in 1944 when he was trying to lead the united states down a similar path of peace. >> there will be endless speculation yet again in the next couple of weeks, on the 50th anniversary, bound to be. what makes you so convinced that lee harvey oswald didn't act alone? >> well, i was in infantry, i saw men blown away by rifle blasts and bomb. i resort to the basics, your eyes, there is this wonderful documentary that shows you the time frame and shows you what the shots were doing step by step. we estimate, the people in the community, five shots, maybe six.
and you show in the kill shot kennedy is going back to the left, very clearly. the shot has to come from the front very clearly, because he reacts. now, they put scientific coating on it and calls it all sorts of things. but that doesn't work, nor does the magic bullet that wounds connally and kennedy several times. that doesn't work. you take the autopsy of kennedy, which is bizarre, most of the witnesses saw a huge exit wound, huge, in the parkland hospital. and later on when he gets to bethesda, and the illegal autopsy is done, controlled by the military, the back of of the head is re-patched. people who actually saw the head say it is not the head i saw. so it is a bizarre story, but these three major points -- >> will we ever know the truth. >> well, you can keep saying
that, but there are always records, i know they are digging hard on the cia files. there are about 1100 files with held, including ones by david philips, e. howard hunt, and mr. morales, david morales, an interesting figure. and of course there is a new book out on dulles, there are people that can have a lot of sway. >> when you are finished doing the history of the united states, if you could choose one president in all of your lifetime, who would you have? >> i did not experience roosevelt. my father hated him so much. i think he was a great man in many ways. john kennedy had had guts. he stood up to the military at the missile crisis in october of '62. and that took a lot of guts. and khrushchev stood up, took a
lot of guts. so the history -- >> also in the -- >> they put that chapter. >> kevin costner, the star of "jfk." and put in paperback, it is a fascinating story, great to see you, a real pleasure as always. come back soon. coming up, american cities going bankrupt. and a surprising idea on how to save detroit, a native son, living the rock and roll dream. (dad) just feather it out. that's right. (son) ok. feather it out. (dad) all right. that's ok. (dad) put it in second, put it in second.
(dad) slow it down. put the clutch in, break it, break it. (dad) just like i showed you. dad, you didn't show me, you showed him. dad, he's gonna wreck the car! (dad) he's not gonna wreck the car. (dad) no fighting in the road, please. (dad) put your blinker on. (son) you didn't even give me a chance! (dad) ok. (mom vo) we got the new subaru because nothing could break our old one. (dad) ok. (son) what the heck? let go of my seat! (mom vo) i hope the same goes for my husband. (dad) you guys are doing a great job. seriously. (announcer) love a car that lasts. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. i got this. [thinking] is it that time? the son picks up the check? [thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i hope he's saving. i hope he saved enough. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. whether you're just starting your 401(k) or you are ready for retirement, we'll help you get there.
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welcome to you. >> pleasure to be here. >> i've alighted on these pictures. three of the great rock icons, lou reed, mick jagger, john lennon. to be a great rock legend do you have to have a dash of fashion panache about you? >> you don't have to. but that swagger is something that becomes more memorable and adds to the stage performance and your presence there and it adds to your -- how people view you. i think in the public's eye. >> your stuff is so cool that i struggle to be allowed into the stores to buy it. but what is the association between you and rock 'n' roll when it comes to your clothes.
>> i was inspired. i was inspired. music was the thing that was the energy force for me growing up. it was one of the only things to grab on to in detroit too. throughout my design career i have always looked back on the past because there's a great history both in fashion and rock 'n' roll. there are all those snippets of influence. every season there is something loosely i reach for back in the past. and i notice all the young artists look back in time and they want to look like and they make it their own. just like i take bits and pieces and you put your own handwriting on it. and my brand has been very connected with musicians and we run -- and there are ads of ours and a few in the book as iconic artists in our ads. >> when you see detroit filing
for bankruptcy. that must be heart breaking for you. what is the solution for detroit's problems? >> it's tough. it's been that way for so many years and such bad leadership in detroit over the years. i think it's on the road. it's not just the city of detroit but the state of michigan that was hit by the downturn in the economy and the automobile industry falling down but i see movement again. but i think it needs great leadership. >> what do you make of america right now? there are so many views about the way that america should go. a company like apple outsources 90% of its jobs. they are announcing they are opening a factory here in america which is a start, i think. but should more great american
success stories be thinking more insular? >> i think we are. and it's not from a political standpoint but from the heart. we have seen it come out of detroit with chrysler promoting made in america and born in detroit and that type of thing. that's part of it is being involved with the city is a part of a kind of emotional thing as well. >> we are watching a clip of your choiceler ad which like everything you do is impossibly cool, iggy pop. >> another detroit icon. he was one of my icons growing up. >> when you finished the book, who was the coolest rock icon in terms of music fashion? >> if i had to dig down deep, a
lot of them are friends. iggy is one of those guys and jimmy paige but i have to say jimi hendrix. >> why? >> he shattered everything out there at the time. all the great artists, the beatles or eric clapton and the who they were all afraid of him. nothing sounded like that before. and he had a sometime about himself that was so different than everybody else and so cool and i still look at that style and still influenced by him. >> he was a complete legend. >> it's a fantastic book "rock and fashion." good to see you. >> pleasure. >> i hope i can get into one of your stores and buy your clothes? >> we can make something work. >> we can try. we'll be right back. i am today by luck.
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apple. and is the tea party headed for a fall in virginia. we will have more when the polls close at 7:00. it's here all night tomorrow. "ac360 later" starts right now. good evening, everyone. tonight, breaking news, one of the tsa officers wounded at l.a.x. describes the rampage that killed one of his colleagues, later killed a friend. and later, what michelle knight endured year after year. she is finally telling her story to dr. phil later tonight. and plus, incident from a player. a tsa officer wounded in friday's rampage at los angeles international airport is telling his story for the first time just moments ago. tony grigsby, 36 years old, his colleague, james speer was also shot. his colleague, gerardo hernandez was also shot and killed.