moderate kind of kiss of death, wishful thinking on behalf of paul who's going to run, clearly. he doesn't think that chris christie can do anything in iowa or the state of south carolina. and he might be right. but it's a fight that we'll have a lot of fun watching, i think. >> all right. stay tuned. dana, gloria thank you so much. that is it for me. i am jake tapper in asbury park, new jersey. you can catch me on "the lead" 1:00 p.m. eastern, 4:00 p.m. pacific. right now "crossfire." tonight on "crossfire." the winners some were on the ballot. >> the model for bipartisan cooperation. >> one may be on 2016 ballots. >> maybe the folks in washington, d.c. should tune in right now. on the left, van jones, on the right, newt gingrich. in the crossfire. henry lee, a democratic
strategist and john fury, a republican strategist. what message are the voters sending today and who will listen? tonight on "crossfire." welcome to "crossfire." i'm van jones on the left. >> i'm newt gingrich on the right. in the crossfire tonight, penny lee and john ferry. there's plenty of good news for republicans tonight. the breadth of chris christie's victory in new jersey is very impressive. he won among women, split the latino vote, and even took one fifth of african-americans. what's more, obama care nearly cost terry mcauliffe the virginia governor's race. clearly republicans now have a pattern for winning the white house in 2016 and a new star in the front ranks of possible candidates. >> i know that tonight a dispirited america, angry with
their dysfunctional government in washington -- [ cheers ] >> -- looks to new jersey to say, is what i think happening really happening? are people really coming together? >> well, the fact is, new jersey's very impressive. i would say also frankly there are a lot of other impressive republican governors around the country. but i think tonight we can look at this. and i know you don't want to hear it. i think the biggest story of the actual events of today were terry mcauliffe going from 15 points ahead 10 days ago to almost losing while outspending his opponent by at least 4 to 1. and the only change was obama care. >> well first of all, you can't possibly be falling for this
chris christie stunt where he runs the score up by dodging cory booker, wasting $12 million worth of taxpayer money so he doesn't have to run against anybody. basically run unopposed. i could get those numbers if i ran opposed. number one. number two, terry mcauliffe broke the curse. you've never had anybody be able to win the governor's race and say you got your own party in the white house. this is good stuff for us, bad stuff for you guys. we've got other people who will agree with me. in the crossfire tonight, democratic strategist penny lee along with republican strategist john ferry. listen, everybody is jumping up and down and saying chris christie is now the savior, he can get black, he can get last-handed people. he can do anything. he ran unopposed. the national democrats didn't put a dollar in there. isn't every overinterpreting this whole thing? >> chris christie is the clear frontrunner. amazing victory tonight in a very blue state. iity that right now he's a guy
who can go to all 50 states, he can win. he's a blue-collar guy. i guarantee you if he decides to run he will win the nomination. >> penny, i know my friend here has this model in his head. but as a professional, don't you have some admiration for somebody who can go into trenton, bring about the reforms he did, and then win the size vote he won tonight? clearly the largest republican victory in modern times in new jersey. >> sure. absolutely. but you have to really wonder what he was run with or what party label he was run with. you have a state in which 58% of the voters say they don't like the gop brand as it is right now. this is someone who voted for gun control. this is someone who said he would come out for the expansion of medicaid under obama care. this is someone who proposed or supported obama care. so you have to wonder, is he really the republican that can take it to all 50 states? i think he's going to have a real tough time in iowa, a real tough time in new hampshire and some other states. >> he doesn't need new
hampshire, doesn't need iowa. he can get plenty of electoral votes going to the north and west. i think what chris christie can do, he broke the teachers union. he's improved the quality of governance in new jersey. he's someone who actually ace real leader which this country needs. takes on corruption. >> haven't we seen this before with rudy giuliani? >> no. he was pro-choice and had a family life that was spectacular to watch. but chris christie has a good family life, he's pro-life and very conservative on most issues. i think that's the kind of guy who can win the nomination. >> i'm so surprised to hear. you say he's a great leader. where is he leading new jersey to? new jersey has one of the worst credit ratings in the country, the bottom has fallen out. he got downgraded on his own watch. property taxes up. jobs down. poverty up. where is he leading people to? >> if you look at the poll numbers from the exit polls and how he led during hurricane sandy, he was spectacular. people saw him. he's the kind of guy, he worked with president obama, your
friend president obama in a way, in a bipartisan way to say we're going to fix this and he did fix it. >> hold on now. everybody applauded that. >> that's leadership. >> that's what you're supposed to do. however, there's not a governor in all 50 states that wouldn't have shown up for work that day. and now you got problems with -- >> you got the obama economy. it's awfully hard to fix the obama economy. he's trying as best he can. but he's got washington screwing things up. >> he's worse than every other neighboring state, though. am i wrong? >> i can tell how serious this candidate is for 2016 by your passion. [ laughter ] >> i mean, if this guy were as bad as you said he was you'd be saying bring him on. you're doing more hard work. let me ask you for a second. i think one of the most fascinating things about where we are is that your probable nominee, first lady, senator, secretary clinton, will be running in a city that 80% of
the country is now mad at. she somehow has to become the candidate of change. now, because i think whether it's chris christie or perry or kasick or walker or any one of a dozen other republicans, they're going to be the candidate of change. how as a professional, how do you advise her? how does hillary clinton somehow become the candidate of the future with a 20-year past? >> i think it's also not a change. most candidates always run as the candidate of change, whether it be for governor or whether it be for president or other things. i think what you're starting to hear more and more in her speeches, i can make this work. similar to the themes in which her husband ran for, which is, i can bring people back together again. i can make it work. the one thing you did see tonight was that hard work was rewarded. you saw that with chris christie. they felt that he was competent. he was a competent leader. and that he was rewarded.
you saw that also in deblasio. he had a compassion. he said i can bring people together. i am going to be able to make this work for the middle class. those kind of languages, i think a similar language you will see with hillary clinton being adopted. that's the kind of thing she will say. >> i think we got a very very strong candidate. but your problem is, you've got a couple of strong candidates. apparently they hate each other. i want you to listen to this sound. how is your party going to survive this kind of stuff? >> i'm a conservative. and i've governed as a conservative in this state. i think that's left some people disagreeing with me. >> we need moderates like chris christie who can win in new jersey and our party. >> so here you have the first thing that comes out of his mouth, chris christie's mouth i'm a conservative i'm a conservative. he can't even get that out of his mouth rand paul going he's a moderate. >> rand paul saying he should be in our party. that's an improvement. we have a spirited debate in our party. but hillary care was more
liberal than obama care and would have been worse and obama care is a complete disaster. newt is right. continuity with a president like president obama who will be limping through the end of his term, hillary has to start running against obama now if she wants a chance. i think the real challenge for her will be elizabeth warren who's going to ron because she'll be the populist from the left. >> i think a lot of people are very excited the hundreds and thousands of people that are already starting to support ready for hillary the superpac out there right now. it is stemming a lot of support across this country. not just isolated to the northeast as your candidate for the frontrunner is right now. she's going to be able to have a broad coalition. >> is she going to run against obama or continuity with obama? >> on some issues there will be some defining issues in which i'm sure she will. there'll be some moments in which she'll be able to define the stakes of the election in her own way. >> how much do you worry looking at the degree to which mcauliffe began to fall apart in the last ten days despite a 4 to 1
spending advantage, how much do you worry that if obama care can't get fixed that by next summer it is a really big problem for the democratic party and for liberalism in general? >> there's a lot of people. we all are disappointed in the rollout and how it's taken place. we know there are some very good things part of obama care. i was denied earlier this year health insurance because of a pre-existing condition. i now have it because of obama care. there are good things that are a part of it. we are all disappointed it wasn't rolled out in a way which highlighted that. so there is some concern out there for it. but if you look at the two candidates, both terry mcauliffe and chris christie both said they would be for the expansion of medicaid under obama care. so they were supportive of it. you also saw right now in the polls, 54% of virginians actually support obama care. so i don't think the verdict is out there and we've got a long ways to go. >> we've been talking a lot about obama care, a lot about new jersey. next i want us to focus on another political star and he's
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welcome back. in the crossfire tonight, penny lee and john fury. are you paying attention to what's happening in new york city tonight? we're talking about everything else. after 20 years of the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer and the middle class getting left behind, bill deblasio ran against income equality, explicitly and won
big. while the tea party conservatives are fighting over how stingy the republican party should be, you're going to see progressive democrats run this race again in 2014 and 2016 with the same result. so do you, john. you've got a progressive movement that is growing across the country, deblasio ace big representative. you mentioned elizabeth warren. we're going to have some fire on left to count act some of this fire on the right. we actually want to govern and not make the country ungovernable. >> one observation. last 20 years are the greatest 20 years in new york's existence. because of republican governors. >> if you're rich. >> i was in new york the other week -- for everybody. it's a safer city, a better city. everyone's working. everything works. bloomberg has his problems but he made the city work building on rudy giuliani. if you want to turn away from the best city over the last 20 years you can go for it. i think deblasio is going to be a disaster. >> you think universal prek will
destroy new york? >> bring it back to the battle days where you had high crime and people didn't want to move there anymore, it's going to be a problem. >> we'll see. but i think you can keep all the good gains and make sure more people can participate. if you're a low income, working class person in new york it's tougher and tougher. >> one of deblasio's first positions is going to be to squeeze down and cripple the charter school movement on behalf of the teachers' union. >> he hasn't said that. he wants to make sure that charter schools aren't an escape valve out of the public school system but instead are an experimentation to make the public schools better. that's a good thing. >> you just said the same thing in a different language. but the fact is, even with giuliani and with bloomberg trying all out, they could not reform the schools because the teachers union was too strong. that's just a fact. the idea deblasio is going to come in as a ally of the teachers union and magically get them to reform -- >> aren't you proud of progressives at the local level, in the state houses and cities
like new york coming on strong? >> absolutely. this will be a theme income equality in 2014 and 2016. as we're starting to seat incomes do increase at a greater level more and more, a great movie "inequality for all" it really shows the gap which we are dealing with right now. >> republicans have a very simple answer. it's called the obama economy. i mean, our position is going to be really simple. when you have lots of regulations, big government messing things up, you refuse to allow acceleration, you cripple small business with obama care, you don't get jobs. you don't get jobs you're going to get income inequality. >> aren't you ashaumed? you guys in the republican party actually have some really good ideas for job creation. you know who's been championing them? president obama in his jobs program which is all your ideas. you guys won't even vote for your own ideas. >> republicans by and large have not put forward higher taxes as a strategy.
>> obama's cut taxes. >> i think the fact is that the biggest thing they want is economic growth. economic growth. >> why won't you vote for president obama's jobs plan? >> they don't want to kill jobs. >> more ideas. >> raising taxes and more regulations is not our idea. that's nonsense. >> we have trickle down before. it doesn't produce the jobs in which we want to. we need to continue to make the investments in education, in infrastructure. those kind of things we need to be responsible about. that is what is going to create the jobs. >> it hasn't worked for president obama. >> very simple question. given the general mess in obama care which i think even if you're an optimist going to be a drag on the system, you have pretty high likelihood going into '14 with the weakest continuing economy since the great depression. now, i realize it was all george w. bush's fault. the house republicans' fault and then somebody else's fault.
but isn't there a point here where the country begins to conclude that big government ideas don't work very well? forget the 30-day embarrassment of the web site. but if it becomes a 90-day embarrassment of the web site there's a point where the whole system becomes a run joke. >> i think it was really interesting to see what happened during the shutdown. that was people realized how government is affecting their life and how they need to it carry on certain functions, how much they want it to be there. whether for the faa, the safety patrol, the teachers or other things. there was actually that they saw there was value to having government. now what they want is to have it more efficient and more effective. that is a conversation that i think both sides need to be having at a greater level. how do we make it more affordable, more effective and more efficient and how do we make it produce for the taxpayers. >> if your polls show that people blame both side for the government shutdown. it was a dumb idea.
[ overlapping speakers ] >> the fact is, both sides have ample share to blame. they also most polls show that most people didn't really notice the government shutdown that much. now, i know that there's essentially government services -- >> why did terry mcauliffe win? large part because of the shutdown that happened. because voters in virginia came up in arms and said we want somebody that can actually be effective. >> terry mcauliffe mostly won because single women voted against ken cucinnelli because of the social issues the polls show. [ overlapping speakers ] >> virginia is top heavy with government workers. >> the government workers saw the value of their own job. >> the fact of the matter is, the economy under president obama has been a disaster because of more regulations and higher taxes and government gridlock. this is why people are rejecting -- i don't think bill deblasio's plan is going to work in new york city. >> listen. there's this myth out there that
president obama has been able to get his agenda through. and the reality is, his jobs plan what 100% republican ideas and republicans refused to pass it. so you have an active pattern of sabotaging this president. i think you guys should be ashamed of that. if you have always as a party believed in infrastructure for this country, you always have except when obama was for it. you always believed in the mitt romney heritage foundation nixon newt gingrich individual mandate until obama was for it then you were against it. i don't think that is going to be something that people want to give more power to in this country. what do you think? >> these mandates put out by the president in obama care that kill jobs and small business. >> "wall street journal" says that's not happening. >> it hasn't been fully implemented it will happen. most st. pa most small business owners will tell you they're afraid and they're not hiring. the jobs creation in this country is terrible under president obama. >> that's an objective fact. but stay here.
next we ceasefire. is there anything the two of you can agree on? we also want you at home to weigh in on today's fire back question. now that governor chris christie has been re-elected, do you think he is the 2016 frontrunner? tweet yes or no using #crossfire. we'll have the results after the break. across america people are taking charge of their type 2 diabetes with non-insulin victoza®. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar, but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza®. he said victoza® is different than pills. victoza® is proven to lower blood sugar and a1c. it's taken once-a-day, any time, and comes in a pen. and the needle is thin. victoza® is not for weight loss, but it may help you lose some weight. victoza® is an injectable prescription medicine that may improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise.
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we're back with penny lee and john fury. let's call a ceasefire. i think you all can agree on something. penny, tell us. >> i think what we can agree on. i can say this from the former head of the republican governors association, we have exciting governors on both sides of the aisle. we saw tonight two very exciting races. i'm glad that terry prevailed on the democrats. but we're starting to see real innovation coming from the governors. they've always been laboratories of leadership or ideas. we're starting to see that play out. i think we can both agree governors are exciting times ahead. >> penny, no doubt about it. i think while looking at the mess in washington, the best hope of governance in america is
with the governors. they're doing a good job, republican governors, scott walker, chris christie, even ri rick scott has come back to doing innovative things. best thing about it a bunch of different ways to experiment and see what works. this is what the american system is all about. >> what do you think of jerry brown in california? he's come back from the dead and brought california back from the dead. >> governor moon beam. they are starting to see a surplus come through and making investments. >> somebody's going to write an amazing biography sometime. governor fails the senate, mayor, attorney general, back to governor. >> that's the thing that's most important. they all as governors have to make the tough choices. that's what jerry brown has done. >> penny and john, thank you both. if you want to stay a part of the conversation please go to facebook or twitter. you can weigh in on our fireback question. now that governor chris christie has been re-elected do you think he is the 2016 frontrunner?
right now 42% of you say yes and 58% of you say no. the debate continues online at cnn.com/crossfire as well as on facebook and twitter. we also want to congratulate you, newt gingrich, on the publication of your new amazing book called "breakout." you should really read it. i love it. from the left i'm van jones. >> from the right i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." cnn's coverage of election night continues now with piers morgan live in new york. piers morgan live midnight on the east coast. i welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. the morning after election night. in virginia a governor's race closer than anybody expected thanks to bill and hillary clinton's ally terry mcauliffe