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tv   Crossfire  CNN  November 11, 2013 3:30pm-4:01pm PST

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other television network. anderson cooper will be live in the philippines, only here on cnn. that's it for me. thanks for watching. "crossfire" starts right now. tonight, basic like football players. >> you know it's definitely not a place for the pc police. >> a scandal in miami exposes allegations of bullying, hazing and racial slurs. how should parents and fans react? on the left van jones, and on the right stephanie cupp, and jamal anderson, who knows all about locker room. does the nfl need an andy-hazing policy. what kind of example is it setting for our kids? tonight on "crossfire."
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6. welcome. i'm van jones on the left. >> i'm s.e.cupp on the right. miami dolphins take the fields again tampa bay in a few hours. let me state for the record, i'm a football fan, go pack go! >> but bullying may be one of them, though richie incognito says he never realized what he did crossed the line. >> if i would have known this was hurting john, if john -- we've spent splint of time one on one. if he would have come to me ones or said listen, lay off john he's had enough, it's been too much, i would have been the
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first person to change. >> i wasn't there, but this outrage over allegations seems a little misplaced to me. concussions, brain damage, sue sides, steroid abuse, domestic violence, a seeming tolerance for behavior of all kinds on and off the field, just a fuel of the cultural problems i think the nfl needs to address first. the nfl problems aren't merely incognito. they are in fact -- aim glad you're back. luckily these guys can help us work our ways through this. >> we have a "usa today" supports columnist, and retired nfl player. jamal -- >> am i retired?
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>> apparently they need you to come back. >> maybe i missed the memo on how you build more real with people you are working for. you have tried to defend some of 24 stuff. can you explain to ordinary people? >> defend, interesting word. the locker room, it's impossible to explain what the locker room is like for different teams. each locker room is different. the teams that win have outstanding leadership in the locker room and there are a level of things that can occur that you would not understand. these are sports heroes, figures
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our kids look up to. are you saying that everyone is calling each other the "n" word? >> no question that's not occurring. i can tell you, i've been a part of football teams where that has happened. who have a certain rapport. now, you know the word is thrown around loosely, not the e.r., but the "a" end of it. as a term of endearment. >> and before i ask you a question, christine, let me set the table for a second. i have heard this defense the locker room culture in regards to this story. i think that's a really lazy justification for bad behavior that can trickle down, where bullying becomes justified.
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plenty of bad behaviors, steroids, misogyny, homophobia, could be claimed a locketer room consultly. i don't think that's right. i remember years ago hearing from some that michael vick in dogfighting, that was part of black southern culture. i'm sure at penn state, apparently there was a culture that required you to-day-old and protect joe paterno at all costs. so culture is what we make it. so blaming the locker room is not appropriate, but christine, are you really surprised to hear that trash talk like this, and mean i'm some bullying and hazing goes on? i've been around, you've seen it. >> absolutely. i've been in locker rooms where it's happened to me, covering the washington team in the '80s.
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i think journalists get -- i think one of the things we're getting from the story is so much we don't know. it will come out, the nfl is investigating that, that's a good thing. i absolutely agree that the locker room is different from the street corner or school yard, but you made a good point that the nose is setting the tone, the nfl's most popular league in the country, certainly or national pastime, 40% of the fans of the nfl are women. it is very important that the nfl come into the 21st century. i do believe it's something that should be a watershed moment.
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some people are afraid if you go too far the other direction, you'll have teams that can't win. do you think that players making the carry their shoulder pads, is that hazing? >> no, it is not. whatti. >> what about extra practices? >> no. >> what about threatening someone's life with the "n" word? >> i would say that's unacceptable, and that is a loaded question. >> gotcha. >> let me say one thing. that was smooth sailing over there. there are a tremendous amount of positive things that occur in the same longer rooms. tom brady, drew brees, aaron rodgers, there are outstanding football players who do outstanding work off the football field, outstanding leaders in the locker room. so this is one issue that we're
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talking about. clearly with one team, let's be realistic now. we're talking about a team that has to figure things out with their leadership. again, i'm a running back. i want a lineman who is very, very physical. i'm not here to destroy ricci, because i don't know what happened, but i'll tell you now, as a guy who played that position, i want a lineman who's going to give me a little bit extra. tough guys, to play this support sport you have to be physically and mentally tough, but these tough guys don't have to be bad guys, so we need to figure out what happened. >> certainly the use of the "n" word is unacceptable, eesh
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specifically when you put it on a voicemail. the nfl, riley cooper, he was fined by his team for use the same term. so there's got to be punishment about that. >> you know what was interesting for me? i wanted to pay to see what the reaction from the philadelphia eagles was. the guys who know him. was this an isolated incident? >> i want to real some of this stuff. some people may not know exactly why people are so upset. this is the kind of stuff that richie incognito was leaving. he says what's up, you half "n" word piece of bleep. i saw you on twitter, you've been traving for ten weems. i'm going to slap your real mother across the face. bleep you, you're still a rookie, i'll tell kill you. this does not strike me as more real boosting. >> is that representative?
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>> no. no. the thing about this who are entire conversation we are having, that i've represented for many, many days, the bottom is there's a certain amount of rituals. things we have all had to go through the reality is you're going through things so you can be on the same page, so you've had to endure and sacrifice in order to win. if i had a second-round pick that came out of the stanford that was going to be an offensive lineman, i need to build him up. >> i want to talk with you about how you do go about billing folks up. the miami dolphins just finished up a news conference. we have new information. you know everyone wants that are kids to be successful. i have two boys, great athletes, but i do not want them playing in the nfl, and i i'll tell you why, when we come back. [ male announcer ] at humana, understanding what makes you different
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welcome back. this just in dolphins eastern steven ross finished up a press conference, saying he's deeply concerned, and he has plans to have a face-to-face meeting with martin on wednesday. we have the perfect timing here. in the crossfire catherine tease brennan and jamal anderson. but first i want to talk about myself. i have two boyce, they are -- i would not want them to play in the nfl right now. here's why. being strong does not mean bullying people. my boys know that, they are great athletes, they know how to
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win, but they treat their tamemates and opposing players with decency and respect, but oerchd there's richie incognito. check out this tmz clip. we have to bleep it. >> [ bleep ]. >> who wants to [ bleep ]. >> now, honestly, would you want your kids to grow up and act like this? boys should be inspired to be like men, but some in the nfl could learn a lot from my boys, so, to you jam an, how can you possibly explain this? my boys are here, in the control room right now. explain to them why i'm wrong. why should somebody want to aspire to join the nfl? talk to mea kids.
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>> think about what it takes to get to the nfl, the dedicate, intelligence, prowess, athleticism, the beauty in some instances. some of the top players we watch today. richie incognito in this clip is an isolated incident, because we're now seeing a guy -- if you look at the clip, he's talking to mike pouncy. today pouncy represents nothing but support to incognito. >> by jamal, i love the surprised looks on all our faces when people with problematic end of -- incognito was kicked out of two college programs for his anger-related issues. he god into an incident with a coach, he head-butted two people. aaron her najz we now know had problems before his alleged murder accusations. i could name a whole list of players that the nfl either to
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be criminally problematic or bad behavior on the field. isn't the nfl responsible for hiring, defending and promoting people they know to be bad actors? >> the answer is absolutely yes, it is. i would say we just heard from the dolphins as you mentioned, from the owner. to me this is a crisis in leadership as much as it is a bullying issue. why the miami dolphins allowed richie to be on that you are leadership council with the history you just described -- and by the way, there was the sexual harassment on the golf course with a woman involved a year or so ago. that's another one. he said the other day in his interview, incognito did, he was saying i've been a knucklehead. no. no. this is actually illegal behavior. so it's risen to something far worse. yet the dolphins wanted him on the leadership council. to me the coach joe philbin, jeff ireland, the general manager, who is the one that
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martin go punch incognito in the nose, these are the people who you are to say, if you're the commissioner, why do they have jobs? >> is the nfl just pretending to care about the character of the athletes? >> no, i think roger goodell is in his 50s, i've known him for a while, gosh, more than 25 years. i do think he cares. >> no question about it. >> but it's also a pr issue. even if you didn't care, you have to care. >> i have to point out, though, because of the heightened attention and focus, there is a small, small percentage of the 1800-plus players who get in off-field activities like this. >> sure. sure. >> i think part of the reason so many people are interested in this, i think just what does it mean to be a man now? there's a tug of war over it. some people are afraid we'll be too thuggish, too brutal. others are afraid, and people are starting to criticize
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polaren for backing out. isn't this a false choice? for instance, don't you think it's a good thing that something like a martin rather than throwing a punch, goes to get help? what does this mean? >> and that's the interesting thing for me. i'm, i want to really see what jonathan martin has to say about this. because here's the thing about football. play in and play out, where these guys play, it's called the trenches, man. you have to strike. >> so are you saying you don't believe him? >> no, absolutely. i think what happened with him, i think jonathan martin for whatever reason, as sophisticated and talented as he was to be a second-round pick, somehow he did not fit in the locker room for the miami dolphins. >> you think he is a wuss. >> you think it's his fault.
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>> i want to know what happened. who are the other characters who harassed him? i thought about this the other day when we were talking about it on cnn. i wonder if i walked on the street and talked to 40 men with no context to say i wonder if it's possible to believe another man. this is the game. >> let's look at our communities, though. we're raising up these young men. we don't want them to strike back every time. we want them to hold their ground, but we're creating a situation now -- and i'm very concerned about this -- you have a national profile brother who said this is too much for me, and i had to go get help. and he is being called a wuss by some people. it may be better to throw your fist. >> we have to put it in the context of two nfl players who are -- >> just because you're nat
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nfl -- >> no. >> you can't have muscles or feels? >> no. you have one play. say he gives up a sack the very next play. he's lined up against another 350 pound guy. your expectation is to battle back on that play. that's what nfl guys are trying to understand. >> i'm with slvan on the mental illness thing. but isn't it interesting, most of the support i've heard from the players has been from incognito. what do you make of that? >> that's the team rallying around its players. the nfl isn't for everybody. maybe it was time for him to say i don't want to do this anymore. it's an a violent game, an extraordinary game. i think when you pull back the curtain on anything, this is why the story is so intriguing to everybody. it's showing something that we've never gotten inside
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before, warts and all that can be very good, but we also have to step back and say what we know and what we don't know about the situation. stay here next we cease-fire. is there anything that the two of you, maybe the two of us can agree on. we also want you to weigh in on our fire back question. would you want your child to play in the nfl? tweet yes or no using #crossfire. we'll have the results after the break. charitable giving. really. i get bonuses even working part-time. where i work, over 400 people are promoted every day. healthcare starting under $40 a month. i got education benefits. i work at walmart. i'm a pharmacist. sales associate. i manage produce. i work in logistics. there's more to walmart than you think. vo: opportunity. that's the real walmart. life with crohn's disease ois a daily game of "what if's".
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we're back with christine
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brennan and jamal. is there anything we can call a cease-fire on? >> absolutely. i think if we have a bullying rule, i think that's a good thing. and the concussions, now these players have cte. and that's a 20-year old story that's been involving that has not been solved. >> i agree with you. i treated out as much that i thought they should implement some type of policies to make sure this doesn't happen. this is an extended look at what's going on inside our locker rooms. people are fascinated by the dynamics that we're hearing, the relationships about the teams. there are so many other positive football players and things going on in football that
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unfortunately those things are being overshadowed right now by what's happening in miami. and i hope for the miami dolphins' sake and the players in the nfl, that this gets rectified and addressed and over. >> and i think we look forward to seeing your sons play in the nfl. >> i can't wait. >> what a team. >> i got to talk to him. i got an all-star team. >> your 9 year old isn't bad on the football field. mine are bad on the soccer field. would you want your child to play in the nfl? right now, 44% of you say yes. 56% say no. so this debate is going to continue in the real world and online at fefire well as on facebook and twitter. >> join us tomorrow for another edition of crossfire.
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erin burnett out front starts right now. out front next. get international help to come here, now! this is really, really like bad, worse than hell. >> hundreds of thousands homeless and hungry in the philippines. plus a newtown cop says the massacre still haunts him, why his bosses want him fired. and the nfl player at the center of a bullying controversy defends his action. >> the week before this went down, jonathan martin texted me on my phone. i will murder your whole f-ing family. let's go out front.


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