tv Piers Morgan Live CNN November 20, 2013 12:00am-1:01am PST
this is "piers morgan live." welcome to the viewers in the united states and around the world. tonight, george zimmerman back in court. he was found not guilty of murder. will he beat the wrap in this case? >> there was a prior domestic violence case that happened approximately a week and a half ago that involved a choking she did not report to the police. >> and a state senator stabbed in his home. his son dead at the scene. an attempted murder suicide. is this the case of a mentally ill young man falling through the cracks. alec baldwin and the n-word. who decides what you can and cannot say? we'll battle it out with charles blow. and 50 years after the
assassination with john f. kennedy. he was side by side when oswalt was shot. does he think it was a conspiracy? we begin with the big story, george zimmerman's big brush with the law out on bail tonight. that's not the end of the story, lisa bloom legal analyst for cnn senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin. welcome to both of you. lisa, bail was set at $9,000, most significantly it seemed to me were two aspects in audition to this, one, the new revelation that he may have strangulated his girlfriend, the claim she made but didn't file any complaint about at the time and secondly, that he's not allowed to have any firearms or ammunition during the period of bond, which is a huge relief to me, not if anybody else.
what is your reaction? >> the allegation of choking a week ago she didn't report at the time is extremely common for domestic violence victims, if she is one. to endure a certain amount of abuse before they ult myly come forward, the straw that breaks the camel's back that doesn't surprise me. with regard to the guns, is there anybody out there that thinks it's a good idea of george zimmerman to have guns? how many people have to come forward and accuse him on being reckless with a gun? he's again free in florida tonight. >> let's play devil's advocate and remove my vail of my say space session of what he does and cut to the facts.
we don't know at the moment what happened here, do we? >> not at all. this charge has been made, but it may not even proceed to a trial. what the police have to do now is do an investigation. we have two 911 calls that present completely different versions of what happened. the police have to do what good police do, are there any witnesses? are there any -- is there anyone who heard anything? is the inside of the house look like? are there signs of a struggle that cooperate one version or the other? about the gun -- >> see, the crucial part is this, that she says he took the gun out and waved it at her in a men innocencing way. she leaves the property to talk to the police. it's not beyond george zimmerman's brain power, because he's a smart guy to simply repack the weapon. >> okay. that's possible. >> that's possible. >> but maybe it's not even packed. this is the kind of thing that the police have to do, and, you know, the interior of that house will offer all sorts of clues. now it may be this becomes simply a he said she said and those are difficult but not impossible to prosecute but you got to get more and see what is out there. again, we learned about this
possible strangulation matter. that could be the basis of a separate charge. did she tell someone else? all that we have to take a look at. >> let's listen to the two 91 is 1 calls. >> he's in my housebreaking all my [ bleep ] because i asked him to leave. he has his freaking gun breaking all of my stuff right now. >> my girlfriend has, for lack of a better word gone crazy on me. >> your girlfriend? >> yes. >> okay. where is she now? >> outside with the police. >> okay. the police is already there, and -- so why you calling? what happened? >> i just want everyone to know the truth. >> so that's what zimmerman said because this follows the 911 call from his girlfriend, which is more panicking. call me scenical here, jeff, but
he sounds very in control, very measured, almost like he's thought dang it, i'm in trouble again, what do i need to do to try and cover myself? >> think about how weird it is, you're calling 911 when the police is there. clearly, he's trying to make a record of what happened. that's what lawyers would call it. 911 is designed to get the police, call the police but he's calling while the police are standing there, clearly, he just wants his version on the record. i don't know if that will help him down the line but it's certainly showing this is a guy with some familiarity with the legal system. >> lisa bloom, this is a guy that knows the legal system and seems to be attracted to endless trouble. at the very least you got to say zimmerman appears to be unstable and the house is chalked full of
weapons, shotguns, ar-15s, all that stuff like he's a ticking time bomb. >> the judge today said this is a brand-new case and in this case they will only look at the facts to what happened yesterday. we in the public are allowed to use common sense, take the blinders off and three women since 2005 made domestic violence allegations against george zimmerman. one as recently as september, and that's his estranged wife shelley. it's not often they conspire together to come up with the same story. probably shelley and the girlfriend want nothing to do with each other but say two months apart he was pointing the gun at them, not just holding the gun, pointing the gun at them, threatening them and making them leave their own home. these are similar allegations. is there anyone that continues to think it's safe for george zimmerman to be at large and there aren't concerns? i think that's a reasonable conclusion for us to draw this is really a problem person.
>> it's not just members of the public and journalist who can make that inference. it is true that as a technical legal matter, if the case goes to the jury those other matters are not admissible but prosecutors can sit there and say, you know what? we have discretion. we can decide which cases to bring and not and we want to headache sure we do everything we can. if this case is a marginal case, let's bring the case because we know how much trouble this guy caused. >> one twist in the last hour or so, shelley, george zimmerman's wife served divorce papers on him last night because it was the first time in months she worked out where he actually was. >> george zimmerman lead as complicated life. i think we can agree on that. i think we can ask what this woman saw in him to be dating him, but you know what? the real question now is what is the evidence against him? can the police produce, and we don't know at this point.
>> one more question, jeff, it may be george zimmerman feels -- he shot dead an unarmed teenager and walked free. he may just think you know what, no one is going to stop me. >> no one stopped him yet. >> fascinating case. jeff toobin and lisa bloom, thank you very much indeed. >> thank you. this is an absolutely shocking story. senator deeds stabbed in his home this morning and his son found shot to death by his side. the senator is recovering and police investigating. based on the evidence, we're looking at this as an attempted murder and suicide. now, this is not an absolute determination because it's still very much an on going investigation. >> joining me now is psychologist jeff. a well-liked popular senator, well-known to virginians in particular and his son seems to be suffering from a mental illness. >> yes, yes. >> what can we get from this
case do you think? >> we know, piers, this past month he was brought to an emergency room in order to be evaluated. that was done, i think, they deemed that he needed to be hospitalized. i think perhaps you're looking at some sort schizophrenia. he was 18 at the time this happened and they didn't have any beds. there weren't any beds throughout western virginia and they deemed that he could actually go home, which is unthinkable but we see it happening all the time. >> cnn has not verified, coming from the "richmond times" dispatch. if he was suffering from an acute mental illness, taken inside, diagnosed as needing the treatment and gets sent home because there is no availability of beds, that's a shocking breakdown in the system, isn't it? >> it is a shocking breakdown and from the research i've done,
virginia had the highest suicide rate in the past 13 years. in fact, close to 167,000 suicides recorded since 2011 in 2011 up from, maybe, i guess 800 in 2003. they are saying two reasons this is happening, piers. one is the fact that poverty continues to be a problem but secondly, there is no access to mental health. there is not enough access to mental health services, and i think this is a glaring case of this. >> now, the father was stabbed multiple times but expected to make a recovery. his son took a gun and we believe shot himself dead. it shows the finality of a gun in this situation where mental health issues meet guns. >> that's right. >> it's always going to end the same way. >> it's the perfect storm. i know there are a lot of political debates around guns, a lot of political debates around mental health issues, but when the two meet we have real big trouble. we have to look at number one yes, we have to look at gun laws but secondly, most importantly,
we have to fix the mental health system in this country because too many people are falling through the cracks. piers, i can tell you i work with parents who have youngsters, young people, 18, 19 who are having problems with severe mental health issues and the way the laws are written, even if there are beds available, unless at the time they were a danger to themself or others, they cannot be hospitalized and then we see what happens, later on they decompensate and do commit a murder suicide or in this case, try to commit a murder and then end up killing themselves. it's got to be fixed. we got to do more. >> why is there so little money put into mental health research? why in many states is it being reduced?
>> part of it is because a lot of people see mental health care being a luxury. a lot of insurance plans for many years didn't have a mental health component and seeing more of that and there will be more under the affordable care act whether you love it or hate it. the bottom line is it is an illness. if you have a problem with a mental health issue, you see a doctor like if you had a heart condition, gi problem. we need to put it on par but more than that, mental health now is at the forefront of what we're looking at politically, socially, so we've got to be able to get to these people who need the help and get them what they need. >> jeff, thank you very much, indeed. alec baldwin and the "n" word. oscar winner speaking out living with bipolar disorder and why and how the obama mess can be fixed.
[ bleep ]. >> alec baldwin's rant. going too far, the f word, the one was called a homophobic slur and one he denies using. what is to say what we can and cannot say. joining me now my panel. welcome, gentlemen. it's a bit of a hind field, before we started this segment, we were like deliberating what words i could say on air for example, even if we're doing it as part of a debate. i decided to shift it to you guys so you can say what the hell you like. don, put it in perspective because we had the "n" word debate. you had a fascinating program about it. what it comes down to, think is this, is is it acceptable for any part of society to use these words?
in other words, can gay men use the f word themselves in their own community, for a better phrase, can black men use the "n" word, black women use the "n" word and it be prohibited by everybody else? in other words, can you carve it up or is it a case on you know what? it's never acceptable by anybody. >> both and no. as somebody called both of those words you should say them. the word is faggot and the other word is nigger. i'm not the word police. you shouldn't use the word like a pronounce and use it in the workplace and use another word in the workplace. you can say whatever you want in the privacy on your own home but in the workplace there are rules and you need standardized rules across the board for everyone. >> the problem it seems to me, charles blow, say you have a group of young black teenagers in chicago or philadelphia or
wherever it hay be and they are all hanging out together and playing rap music, right, and keep hearing the "n" word and pounding away with the black artists and start using it as part of communication culture, whatever you want to call it, does that not make the situation more complicated? does it not make it difficult if the word that is apparently so offensive is in common parlance among the group that says it's offensive. >> it -- >> i'm playing pure devil's advocate. >> i think that can -- that kind of denies a historical context. james baldwin has a great phrase he said, people are trapped in history and history is trapped in them. the historical context for the appropriation of abusive context. do i personally want to use that
or have it used around me? no. do i understand why that happens in some groups and how people use words and appropriate words that were slurs used against them and take them back and try to reclaim them? do i intellectually understand that? i can. i do, however, worry to a little bit that we get kind of caught on articulated. >> right. >> bias and lose sight of systematic bias and that's a much bigger issue. >> it's not just black youth using the word. white youth buy more hip-hop music than black youth. white kids feel it's okay and that's what happened in the locker room with incognito, it's okay for everyone to use the word. >> we're going to come precome lengthily when we get to the oklahoma, l.a. clippers used the "n" word. in terms of the f word, i can't even read the headline. it's a very, very smart piece of
the alec baldwin thing about the use of the word. i want to play a clip from ann coulter. >> in defense of alec baldwin, i don't think the guy, he was a photographer. he's not actually gay. this is just a course word like using the f word and frankly i think a lot of paparazzi photographers deserve it. it's not something alec baldwin said in a calm moment on television. he has been harassed horribly by photographers and now this stalker and he's trying to protect his family and he -- that is what happened. >> in response to that, anderson cooper, my cnn colleague did a couple tweets about alec baldwin saying while alec baldwin shows his true colors again how will he lie and excuse his anti-gay slurs this time? alec baldwin's excuses are so stupid it's funny.
he said i can assure you with complete confidence that a direct homophobic slur or indirect one for that matter is not spoken n. wake of referring to a tabloid journalist as a toxic queen, i would say the atent ridicule. my friend whose happen to be gay are baffled by this. they see me as a -- i like the guy, he's clearly inflammable. he clearly has a temper that exacerbates in the presence of pop rat she who he thinks hounds him and his wife and baby. this was not done in television on a show. this was done in the street on a standup screaming match, very aggressive situation with the paparazzi that he loathes.
is there any excuse that you could see for him in that particular situation? >> i don't think alec baldwin is homophobic but why does he reach for those words when he gets angry? i think he has an anger management problem but that's another top pick. we have a history with that word and that word is one of the worst things you can say to another man. it's so belittling and demeaning and that's tied up in homophobia ya and sexism. we'll talk about the "n" word, charles barkley said he can use it whenever he wants. is he right? i want to know what you think.
a lively debate about the f word, the "n" word, and who decides what words we can and cannot use. the first part of the abusive phrase, which anderson said was offensive, i didn't know that was anti gay phrase. >> if you say that to another man -- >> another man. >> you're an intelligent man, that's the thing. alec baldwin is very intelligent. he's intellectually smart letter, why can't he think that way angry. >> i don't think i myself, though i wouldn't use that phrase, because i wouldn't use it, i'm not sure i would have seen it in my head as being an antiinflammatory -- >> this is the thing, that you got at before which is that you don't have to be conscious of your bias to be operational. the idea that you may not look at a bias whether it be racial
or getter or whatever or identity and say i am intentionally trying to be harmful to you, you can absorb so much negativity around that subject that you can spew it out and not be conscious of the fact you're operating. >> you made a point in here you think is perfectly okay and in fact, you know friends that do this, you think it's okay you said in your piece for a gay man with another gay man and a group of gay men to use the f word in that situation. again, i would say is he wise that the victimized and they are victimized, sections of the community, whether the f word for them or "n" word in the black community, is it wise to continue using the deeply offensive words even in those communities? >> i think that there is something for reclaiming language and i refer to myself
as a queer person. >> would you be offended if i called you that? >> if you called me a queer? >> yes. >> yes, i would be offended by that. >> but you would use that word yourself? >> to define myself, because of my history, what my queer brothers and sisters have been through, we earned that right. >> nothing offends me, that's the problem. many times it's about you. the "n" word doesn't offend me, the f word doesn't offend me. if that's the first and last thing that you can each, i've already won the argument. that's the conclusion you come with you call me a fag or call me a nigger? i won. that's your ignorance. >> when we talk about
consequences but using this language, if you call me a fag, that's fine, i can brush that off but that contributes to the society looking at gay people in a certain way. when you talk about something in terms of institutionally it gets more dangerous. >> do you think, though, charles blow, was alec baldwin really being homophobic, he didn't know the sexuality of this guy or was he being angry and defensive with the first thing that came into his head, which i suspect is the case. >> like i said before, you don't have to be intentionally doing something to do it. i mean, it can come out of the subconscience and the idea that he doesn't understand the toxicity that has built up around masculinity. >> is he homophobic if it's unintentional? >> that is the -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> is it homophobic? >> i don't think he's homophobic but i think in that instance it was a homophobic remark. >> most people have risen up against alec baldwin, is it right that he become the standard barer of homophobic bigotry? >> anderson was very excise sized about it and very high profile gay man in america. lots of people have been very angry, and i wonder whether that's a fairway to treat alec
baldwin. >> i want alec baldwin to think twice before he says things and apologize and not dance around the issue and say it's not clear what i said. i said fat head. you know, all these things. just apologize. say you'll work on issues and let's move forward. >> i don't think anyone used the term fat head in assault. he could have chosen a better excuse. >> when you get it, you don't can't to do it. when you get it, it doesn't become reoccurring. >> paula dean, everyone you can find, a permanent source. >> this is from charles barkley came after the wednesday night game between the oklahoma city
thunder and the clippers match. a big argument broke out and the clipper's forward was ejected from the game. he tweeted i love my teammates like family but i'm done standing up for these "n" words, all these s words does is cost me money. he apologized. the nba fined him for inappropriate language but charles barkley then said this. >> matt barns, there is no apology needed. i'm a black man. i use the "n" word. i'm going to continue to use the "n" word with my black friends with my white friends. what i do with my black friends is not up to white america to indicate to me what is appropriate and inappropriate. >> don, i mean, i find it's a fascinating debate. >> i think he's right in the sense that -- what he's -- he
says with my friends. >> uh-huh. >> so if you want to say that with your friends, that's fine. he tweeted it out. people say that in the locker room. that's a workplace. so whatever you want to do in the privacy of your own home is your business. as i said, i'm not the word police. i just don't think you should use the word as a pronounce because to me that's the most toxic word in the english language. >> got to the end and say that word disappears. let's get rid of the words that hurt people's feelings. we have to deal with the issues that hurt people's lives, below the surface. you know, we can -- i think this is a fascinating conversation but it's just a conversation as a writer i love cliches but if there was a tip of the iceberg, this is just the tip -- >> when i grew up, i remember my mother saying sticks and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you. i guess it -- it's fine for a young white boy to take that position. what ask it matter? why to f word it's offensive and why the "n" word is offensive
but how it is helpful to the debate if they continue like charles barkley to have the right, entitled to it as far as i'm concerned, but whether it's helpful that music and literature continues to be pumped with the words by the members of the community who say they are so offended by it. >> we look for deeper meanings but sometimes it's right there. it's that simple like your grandmother would say don't use the word, boy, don't do it in public. it's that simple. after that, then you look for the deeper meaning, if you want to go into it. >> can you forgive alec baldwin? >> yeah, easily. i don't think he's homophobic or a bad gay. he's done great stuff -- >> i don't think he's -- i don't think you are that guy. i think you got a bad temper and i think his relationship with the pop razz see is complicated because i remember him selling wedding pictures to a
photographer. you're in delicate territory. >> give me an offensive word for britain. >> i get called a lime me p star, star, star, k regularly. i don't think i'm offended but should i be? >> if you have a friend and tell them that word is a offensive to me, and they can't to use it, does that make them homophobic or racist? i don't know. if he's a gay ally maybe he should stop using the word. >> that may be the best way to conclude this. richard, the oscar winner, the battle with bipolar disorder and why he thinks the obama care mess has to be fixed. [ male announcer] surprise -- you're having triplets.
academy award winning actor earned his name playing lovable, jaws and close encounters. he's won us over with his charm but behind the success, a life-long battle of bipolar disorder and taking a stand on the obama care mess, he thinks it can be fixed. richard dravis is in the chair. how are you? >> good.
good. >> with your bipolar condition, when did you realize? >> when i was 16 i said to my sister, i wonder what would happen if i never has taken any drugs. she said why are you asking? before i smoked marijuana and all that i was pretty normal and she said don't revise history. you were in and outs when you were born. >> she always thought you were crazy? >> yes. >> was that exacerbated by the drugs? >> no, i was a person when he talked would get up, loud, faster, loud, faster until my friend said let's get the big circus cables and tie them on his ankles and pull him back to earth. during that talk i said 17 brilliant things. so the mechanic always helped me.
>> did it help you become a great actor? >> probably, and i had lived from thrill to thrill, and i had a certainty about my success, which i could look back now and say that was probably part of my manic but i always managed to turn it in my favor like if i had bad grades, i just decided i wasn't going to college. >> you suffered from severe depression at times in your life. you say you never considered suicide because your daughter would be really annoyed with you or did you have moments that were so dark you thought i can't continue like this? >> when i was divorced, i lost my sense of self-esteem and i would say to doctors, i've accomplished a lot and wouldn't matter if i got hit by a drunk, and they always looked at me as if i had lost my mind but my daughter got grim and said anyone who commits suicide i'll
kill. >> you in 1991 played a psychiatrist for a mentally ill man. let's see a clip from that movie. >> are you married? >> i'm divorced. >> would you like to talk about that? >> there are two types of people in this world, those who like neal diamond and those who don't. my ex-wife loves him. >> i see. so what you're saying is that even though you are an almost paralyzed multi phobic personality in a constant state of panic, your wife did not leave you, you left her because she liked neil diamond? >> do you think you could ply a psychiatrist in real life? >> absolutely. i can play anyone with a college education, even though i didn't have one.
>> you study people? >> yes. >> what you've been through. >> i think all actors should be and when asked by the screen actors guild, i said it boils down to watching people and imitating them. >> two significant issues, one obama care, obviously been a hell of a mess, the rollout, what do you make of that and do you think it will fix it? >> for 100 years one of the political parties has tried to get a safety net under people. the other party hasn't. and now we have, which is an enormous accomplish the and it started with glitches and problems, but i love to remind people that all of our nation endeavors started out badly world war ii did not start well or the highway act or social security or the hoover dam. and what happens is they get fixed by a congress of both parties, and that's what should happen now, and if one party says no, then they should anticipate having the sick and the dying and the dead on their lawns. >> and in terms of the other issue, which is the power of the
nra over the gun debate and the apparent intransigence of washington to do anything about that, what is the root of that? >> first of all, i don't think the nra is a villain and i don't think the people against the nra are villains. i believe that's a problem of the press, which you started with an us them problem. i do believe that the second amendment is ambiguously written and we'll never have an agreement on whether it's about gun ownership or militia and at the same time, i believe that there is an inappropriate amount of gun violence, and i think we should turn this over to the i do believe that the second amendment is ambiguously written and we'll never have an agreement on whether it's about gun ownership or militia and at the same time, i believe that there is an inappropriate amount of gun violence, and i think we should turn this over to the people who were expert at this, and the original mandate of the nra was to train responsible gun
ownership and the nra should handle it. they should train, excellence in gun ownership. they could create the short list of the guns allowed at home and every other gun they say is legal like people killers and nuclear tips and semiautomatics should be held in armories owned and controlled by the nra, not the government. but remember that this is a gun culture. it's also a car culture. and no one with any brains would let someone untrained get behind the wheel of a car. and i think that that is the analogy that people should remember. the nra should be thought of or think of themselves as heroes, and take care of this problem. >> pretty long stretch for some of us that look at people like wayne la pierre as heroes.
>> well, i spoke to a former head of the nra and said what did you think? she said what did i think? i did black flips and calling people. >> thank you so much. the dreyfuss initiative. thank you for coming in. the man by oswald's side, i'll ask the man in the white hat if he believes there was a conspiracy. i'm only in my 60's.
you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, it helps pick up some of what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. to me, relationships matter. i've been with my doctor for 12 years. now i know i'll be able to stick with him. [ male announcer ] with these types of plans, you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. plus, there are no networks, and virtually no referrals needed. so don't wait. call now and request this free decision guide to help you better understand medicare... and which aarp medicare supplement plan might be best for you. there's a wide range to choose from.
we love to travel -- and there's so much more to see. so we found a plan that can travel with us. anywhere in the country. [ male announcer ] join the millions of people who have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organization serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. remember, all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is. my dna...s me. every piece is important... this part... makes my eyes blue... i might have an increased risk of heart disease... gallstones... hemochromatosis... i'll look into that. the more you know about your dna,
the more you know about yourself... now i know. know more about your health. go to 23andme.com and order your dna kit for only 99 dollars today. learn hundreds of things about your health at 23andme.com >> john kennedy's daughter caroline getting the royal treatment in tokyo today as she begins her ambassadorship in japan. 50 years ago the death of the president and the president's killer this week. jim lovell joins me along with his granddaughter, his coproducer on a documentary "capturing oswald." you're another piece of history in many ways. when you yourself see that
famous footage, infamous footage, what goes through your mind even though now 50 years later? >> about the only thing i can think of is, i was hoping to save my prisoner and i didn't do it. that probably goes through my mind more than anything else. >> do you feel a sense of guilt, even though you have no reason, to but do you feel that? that had you managed to keep him alive we may have been able to answer all the conspiracy theories that have raged ever since? >> no doubt about it had we kept him alive the conspiracy people would have had a hard time bringing up a lot of the things that the bring up. so yes, indeed. i would have really preferred to have kept him alive. >> you could have also been killed yourself as jack ruby burst through that group of people and came at you? >> as a police officer you have to act. many people ask what goes through your mind. you don't stop and think because if you stop and think you've already lost.
so you act. and in that case i jerked back on him to try to pull him behind me. and at the same time, i reached over and caught ruby by his shoulder and shoved back and down on him. and by the time i did that, all the other officers climbed on him and pressed him down to the ground. >> you were the first to interrogate oswald and the last to speak to him before he was killed. what was he like? how did he come over to you? >> when i began talking with him, of course i was talking to
him about the murder of officer j.d. tippit. at that time i didn't have a clue that he was going to be a suspect in the presidential shooting. and at that time he answered all my questions willingly. and as soon as i asked him. he didn't hold back on anything. of course he didn't answer them all truthfully, but he was very calm and collected. and you couldn't imagine anybody who had just killed two people could be so calm and collected as he was. >> let me turn to you, kate. obviously this is a huge part of your family life, i guess. it must be something you've talked about many times. you've coproduced this movie "capturing oswald." what do you think about all the conspiracy theories, given all the research that you've now done into this? >> i agree with my grandpa and the detectives in my show. i do not buy into any of the conspiracy theories. i don't think any of them hold
any water. but the evidence that the amassed in those first 48 hours there would have been a conviction of oswald. i'm convinced of that. >> jim lovell, you were in the ambulance with oswald. at what stage did you become aware he had not only killed that philadelphia but the president. at what stage before he was shot did you know that? >> captain fritz had just come back from the school book depository where the found the rifle and empty hulls under the window and so forth. he'd also found out that oswald was missing from the school book depository without permission to be gone. so he came in and getting ready to send people in different directions to look for him when somebody told him, well, the man that lovell's talking to has a name similar to what he was asking about. he opened the door to the room where i was talking to him and asked me what his name was. and i told him. then he asked lee, where do you work? he said the school book depository. and he said, well, you're the man i want. so i lost my prisoner. he took him and went into his office with him. that's the last time i questioned him.
but that was the first inkling i had he would be a suspect in the assassination. >> when you look back at all this, jim, how do you feel that you were the guy? this footage is played again and again and again that you were so closely entwined with this appalling assassination? >> well, i would rather it never happened to begin with. but that's life. things happen and you have to put up with them or live with them. i wouldn't have thought that this much interest would have held out this long. in fact, if you could have asked me a few days after the assassination i'd have told you give it six or eight months and you wouldn't hear anything more about it. i was wrong with that. the circumstances you have to put up with what comes along. in this case, this generated a lot of interest. of course, the president was quite well-respected he went and quite on vest in dallas looking
at the crowds that gathered to hear him. >> jim lovell, thanks so much for your time and your grandson kate. "capturing oswald" airs on the 50th anniversary of the assassination, friday, november 22nd at 10:00 p.m. on the military channel. thank you both for joining me. >> thank you, piers. >> we'll be right back.
tragedy hadn't struck 50 years ago? what if john f. kennedy may have lived? we'll look at all that tomorrow. tonight only on "360" they are supposed to care for america's veterans and some va hospitals are telling them to wait, wait for potentially life saving tests and wait more and patients are dying because of it. also, a father and well-known lawmaker is stabbed. his son is shot and people are asking, did an overburdened mental health system contribute to the tragedy? later, george zimmerman is out on bail charged with assault. as you can see, that wasn't his only legal hassle today. a story you won't see anywhere else. a cnn investigation that's literally life and death for anyone who has reason to suspect they have canc a