tv Legal View With Ashleigh Banfield CNN March 17, 2014 9:00am-10:01am PDT
in the world, oreo, black lab found himself perched on a ledge, couldn't move or he would fall. what happened? a deputy from the sonoma county sheriff's office, dropped a rope and brought him to safety. >> strangest predicaments. that's it. >> "legal view" with ashleigh >> "legal view" with ashleigh banfield starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com hello, everyone, i'm ashleigh banfield, it's monday, march 17th and welcome to "legal view." amid the vastness for search for 370, one key focus remains on a very small window of time. the airline's chief executive now says the flight data communications system known as acars, may not have been disabled on flight 370 before the last verbal communication with the crew.
now why is that important? it just so happens to contradict a government assertion made only yesterday. and it's important, because if the pilots had said that a normal good night actually happened after the acars was switched off, it could suggest they had a deliberate role whatever happened to that aircraft. in either case, the u.s. official says the jet climbed to 45,000 feet after ground controllers lost contact. and then it dropped to 23,000 feet before climbing yet again. and as i mentioned, vast. just look at this. satellite pings that went on for almost six hours after the plane flew out of range of malaysian military radar. it shows it followed one of two enormous arcs to the north as far as kazakhstan or to the south to the southern indian ocean. t the satellite station over the middle of the ocean can only
judge the angle from which the signals came. with that, i turn to some of the best minds in aviation and air investigations. john lucic joins me here in new york, former commercial pilot, former criminal investigator and founder of the high-tech crime network. and richard quest, our aviation expert here at cnn. and then also from denver, on the left-hand side of your screen, we're joined by former air accident investigator, david souci. bare with me. i want to nail down some key issues about the time line, the events as we know them. they have changed. they have changed since the beginning, so a reset. it's monday, things are new now. at 12:41 a.m. local time, flight 370 departs kuala lumpur en route to beijing. that much is the same. at 1:07:00 a.m., the plane's acars system, the data transmission system, it transmits for the very last time. then at 1:19 a.m., someone in
the cockpit believed to be the co pilot makes the last verbal contact with air traffic controllers. and he says the words "all right, good night." nothing out of the ordinary so far. but then at 1:21 a.m., the plane's transponder goes out. nine minutes later, civilian radar contact is lost. and it is never again restored. at 1:37 a.m., another acars transmission is due to come in 30 minutes after the last one. but it doesn't. it's silent. at 2:15 a.m., the plane is last detected by malaysian military radar off the country's west coast, hundreds of miles off course by now. and finally, at 8:11 a.m. that's seven and a half hours after takeoff, a commercial satellite makes its last rudimentary connection with flight 370. this is something that's been called the handshake, the
electronic handshake. first to richard quest. what do we make of this brand new series of events? >> it's important that we stress what we have done here. we have taken known facts from the press conferences and from statements made by officials, and that's how we have come up with this time line. and the reason i say it's important that we get -- we understand that, there may still be discrepancies that will come further down the road. but what we have done is, we have listened to the press conferences, we have looked at the statements, and that's the time line that seems to be the most rigorous understanding of the sequence of events. and the big new one is this question of the 19 -- the 1:19, the 1:21 and the 1:37. and if i can, mr. lucic, help me out. at 1:07, this is the last transmission from acars. there is a 30-minute period before the next one is supposed
to come in, and it does not. so sometime in that 30-minute period, that's when the transponder is turned off. but effectively, we don't know what happened first, right? something could have happened to acars first. the transponder could have happened first. and that is significant why? >> well, here's the problem. all these issues keep conflicting each other. all these reports conflict each other. the fact that it's been talking to the satellites for seven hours, it's the acars system that typically talks to the satellite to send its data back. so what's talking to the satellite if it's not the acars system. remember in the air france -- the disaster out of rio de janeiro, it was the a cars system sending back the messages as the airplane continued to have mechanical problems. >> i think i can she had shed a little bit of light on that, if i may. what we understand is that what the satellite was receiving was
not the acars messages or system but receiving the antenna being switched off. so it's not connected to the -- the messaging system, but the satellite is getting -- is basically recognizing that there's an antenna out there. >> but any system has to be on in order to be able to do that. and now there is reports of say it was turned off. that's what doesn't make sense. >> let me get david souci in on this from denver. if you could help the layperson understand the significance of this. because up until now -- >> sure. . when we -- we're learning about a lot of systems for the first time. and effectively, people were making decisions based on these very technical issues. and it sounds like now everybody presuming that the pilots had something more to do with this than they thought before might actually now be reversed. is that the takeaway here? >> well, that appears to be the way most people are thinking. i need to point out on the acars system, there is actually two
parts to that system. and they can be separated,iteslated. if the acars transmission system is separate, which is called the s.a.t. com and also used as vhf. what we're talking about here are the pings or last transmission attempting to connect rather than the acars system. the s.a.t. com is the communication mechanism to the satellite. but the acars data is stored on the acars system and transmitted through the s.a.t. com so it's possible there is a separate way to turn off the acars without disarming s.a.t.come, the way i interpret this data, two different things going on here. the fact that the acars stopped transmitting between 1:07 and 1:37 is not uncommon. but the fact this that it didn't report when it was supposed to concerns me a great deal. what i'm confused about is whether or not and what i don't know is whether the s.a.t. com tried to communicate at 1:37. if it did and no data came through, that's one scenario.
if it didn't, then that's something else, meaning the s.a.t. com had been turned off at that point and was turned on again later on seven or eight hours later. >> what so many people agree, it is highly unlikely this is just a big coincidence. david souci, thank you for your insight. john lucic, as well. richard quest, stick around if you will. more questions than answers for pretty much anyone involved in this now mystery. how did both communication systems on board that plane get turned off during this flight, especially within this time line? we're going to take you inside a boeing 777 simulator, talk with a pilot who knows that plane like few others know that plane. and by the way, did you know you can reach the belly of the plane from the cabin? i didn't either. going to tell you what that's about in a moment. [ coughs, sneezes ] i have a big meeting when we land, but i am so stuffed up, i can't rest.
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it is hard for anybody who has never had a chance to fly a 777 to comprehend what it would take to make one virtually just disappear. and that's why cnn's martin savidge is in the cockpit of a 777 simulator today in miss sawinga, ontario. i want you, if you will, it take me through this latest time line and what it tells us about the notion we really don't know which systems were turned off first or went out first or what it would take to disable the acars and the transponders, if it's difficult, if one pilot could do it without the other pilot knowing. perhaps the two of you could walk me through that.
>> all right. well, let's begin with the fact you would have been flying about 45 minutes, we're talking about the malaysian airline 370, about the time they begin to see some electronics being shut down. the acars system you mentioned. this is a communication system between the airplane and the ground, it can work in a number of ways. let's bring up the text so i can show you here this is what the screen looks like. would allow the pilot to send a text message, but at the same time, the airplane is reporting down to the ground. it would be physically located right here. this simulator doesn't have it, because for the need of simulating flight you don't have to have it. but it would be right here. to disable it, though, there is no on/off switch. that's one of those things that you would have to somehow either pull a fuse or unwire. and that would require going down one level below where we
are to get into the electronics bay. so -- >> richard quest wants to jump in. he's finding what you're saying intriguing. >> quick question from quest. you can't disable it, but you can switch off the various vhf or s.a.t. com or data communication abilities, can't you, from one of the screens. >> let's talk to the expert, mitchell. you understand the question? >> yeah. so from what i understand -- you're asking if you can disable the vhf and hf communications? >> no, i'm asking by going -- my understanding is, by going into the acars screens, there are options within the screens where you can switch off vhf, you can switch off s.a.t. com, so you can degrade the level at which acars will transmit. >> yes, that's absolutely correct. you can do that. you can reduce, but you can't
completely eliminate. >> right. >> multilayered. and if you want to completely eliminate it, which in this case seems to be what they did, you would have to get into the bay there. >> now, if you have degraded the level of acars transmissions, you have switched off vhf, you have switched off s.a.t. com, you have switched off the data link, but the satellite will still attempt to connect to the antenna as it's been doing at 1:07, 1:37, on a regular sort of bluetooth way, discoverable. the plane is still discoveriable, but it just doesn't send any data. is that also in your understanding? >> that's absolutely correct. yes. it's -- still sending a signal, even if you reduce -- >> sorry. i don't want to interrupt. my curiosity here is if there are two people sitting in those seats, can one act alone without
the other knowing? >> that's -- no. there's no way. both crew, both these pilots, when you're in the cruise and in these seats, you're paying attention to what's going on. you're en cage gauged. one guy does something -- no one does anything in a cockpit, i don't care how big or small the airplane is, without the other guy knowing. and it's all about communication. we always verify. right to the smallest detail. i'm going to do this. verify it, confirm it. you don't just go on your own, half the plane is yours, half the plane is mine. doesn't work like that. >> so it leads us to this notion that if it can't be done by one pilot and both pilots, if, in fact, one of the theories has these pilots deliberately acting, both would have to act in concert. how would this possibly have happened, especially with the kinds of security systems we now have in place? i want the both of you to hold if you would for me, please. when we come back after the break, that very question, the
united states had already said they are looking forward more of the fact they -- those in the cockpit were possibly responsible for this. the malaysians going further, saying apparently a deliberate act by someone on board. pilot or someone in the cabin. because there is access to the belly of the plane from the cabin. but does that matter in a scenario we're seeing today? you'll have that answer in a moment. [ male announcer ] if you have yet to master the quiet sneeze... [ sneezes ] [ male announcer ] you may be an allergy muddler. try zyrtec® for powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin® because it starts working faster on the first day you take it. zyrtec®. love the air. [ sneezes ] (music) defiance is in our bones. defiance never grows old. citracal maximum. calcium citrate plus d. highly soluble, easily absorbed.
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flight 370, the series about what happened or what could have happened to this jet ranged from the logical to the absolutely outlandish. whoever or whatever turned off flight 370's tracking system shortly after takeoff may be the key to solving this mystery. just how it tough is it to do that? joining me is cnn's aviation correspondent, richard west, joined by a 777 captain with 18,000 hours in the cockpit. captain, i wanted to ask you, i heard you on our morning show "new day," suggest there is this -- there is this access through the cabin to the belly, the guts of the plane you had actually seen. had had a chance to see in your career that many 777 pilots actually had not. can you expand on that and tell me more what that is and how one gets to it and help me, captain, understand that. >> it's called the e & e compartment, electronics and
engineering compartment, the guts of the airplane. goes back to the days of the 707, this particular compartm t compartment, one there and the tail of the airport not accessible in flight. it's an operation to get to it. it really takes a lot of knowledge, not only to access it, let alone to know what's down there. >> as the 777 captain, could you access it yourself? >> yes. >> you could do it. so presumably this captain could as well. >> he could, but we're trained to fly airplanes and to go from point a to point b and the bottom line, there's some stuff down there that one checklist may take us to, but it's a real mystery. this is an electronic airplane that has all sorts of controls. we wouldn't know each little -- each box that's down there. >> but this -- and i don't want to suggest for a moment until we know the facts of what happened. but since the americans and the malays malays malaysians have come out saying we're looking more towards those
in the cockpit being responsible for this and deliberate action taken by someone on board, richard, weigh in on this. if there was -- if there were perhaps a co pilot or captain that had a nefarious plan that was able to disable his partner and then access that, is there something they could have done that would make all of this make sense? >> no. well, yeah, you have a possible -- yes. but you're talking about -- it's like you going into a computer room. what you're talking about this, this area under the flight deck, is the computer guts of the plane. it's not sort of -- it's not like there is so much technology, so much wiring, so much sophisticated -- if i understand you correctly, that, you know, you -- >> he would know what he was doing. >> even the engineers that designed the airplane, they're going to have to go to their own schedule attics. >> it's loot anything like a single computer. >> i hear you, but then i hear this morning, this particular pilot had a flight simulator in his home and was known for being
so to speak an aeronautics geek who could not get enough of this technology. >> my wife and i own an airplane. i love still flying airplanes. so this was the same thing. in malaysia, there is a good chance that flying airplanes at the level that i am able to do here in the states is just not -- it's just too cost prohibitive. so this was his way of enjoying i havation on his own. >> so we shouldn't any anything -- >> no. >> because it does spark memories from the flight simulation courses the 9/11 pilots took and people get nervous. >> why would a professional flight crew and a captain with a lot of time and many years supposedly with this -- with malaysia, why would he even consider, you know, doing something nefarious? when he could do it on the airplane or in the simulator when he goes to training? it just -- it doesn't make sense to us as professionals. >> so much of this doesn't make
sense to any of us as lay people either. >> i've got a question for you, captain. >> just quickly. >> every pilot is talking about this at the moment, aren't they? this is the big talking appointment in the industry. >> it's a big point, yeah. these are one of our colleagues that we've lost, and we need the answers. we really need to not only for these four grieving people, we need answers for them. that's what's the most important thing, but we need answers to find out how we prevent this from happening again, whatever it is that occurred. >> it's such a great point, richard, you just brought up. i tell you, every time i hear a whiplash judgment from a country or analyst from someone in the know that suggests it's nefarious, accidental, mechanical, deliberate, i grieve for the families of those pilots, as well. because if they have nothing to do with any of this, and they have been, you know, ex or indicated worldwide for what they possibly may have done, we are all going to feel horrified
at the possibilities we thought they -- and i can't imagine you as a pilot being that these are your colleagues. you could be in the same boat, theoretically. les abend, thank you. can you stay? >> i'm here. >> you're the expert. just so many questions like how far would that plane have actually been able to fly after the communications were turned off? how much fuel did that plane have on board? if it flew high, if it flew low, how far could it go? there are so many possibilities. we're going to lay out some of them, ahead. and then, what do you do when an earthquake hits in the middle of your newscast? that's what these people did. the alarm bells rang. they ducked for cover. find out about what happened in los angeles in a moment. i'm beth... and i'm michelle. and we own the paper cottage. it's a stationery and gifts store. anything we purchase for the paper cottage goes on our ink card.
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a week and a half into this story, and the mystery of the missing flight 370, unbelievably still has more questions than we have answers. and the questions just keep coming, too. because today airline officials gave a brand-new time line. and this time line casts doubt on the other time line, the one that the malaysian prime minister gave everyone over the weekend. the prime minister had said that the acars communication system, that whole data communication system, was turned off before the last verbal message came
from the cockpit. remember the verbal message, "all right, good night." now today airline officials are saying something different. they're saying they actually really don't know exactly when that acars system went off. and that it's possible, it is possible, it was turned off after the good night message. now, is it that mean anything? does it change whether this is terror potential or mechanical potential? again, so many questions. but right now we do know that 26 countries have skin in this game. they're all involved in the search for the plane. and france just joined that group yesterday. tom foreman joins me live from the virtual room now to take us through the path that i'm sure we're not the only ones doing this, tom. at this point, this virtual search has changed so many times. depending on the altitudes. and they had been everywhere, all over the map. and depending on the last known locations and these time lines, can you now tailor closer what these searchers are looking for and where they're looking?
>> sure we can. let me bring in my map and start with what we did know a week and a half ago. it took off from kuala lumpur, flew up less than an hour, and then vanished at this point. in some ways, ashleigh, this still remains the key of what we know. we know that other information has now come in that has allowed the search areas to expand and expand and expand and to reach where currently is, which is as much bigger image of satellite communication which somehow suggested that there are these big arcs that have to be looked along. and the southern route edidown e and northern route. and precisely, all this conflicting information, every time we add new information, it just raises new question. southern route fairly clear. a lot of water out there. northern route, though, this gets much more complicated because if you were to say this plane were actually flying that whole time, look at the amount of terrain it covers, including passing over the himalayas, a
whole different ball of wax. this is the highest mountain range in the world. and look it at the countries. that would be at least somewhere along that flight path, if you consider cambodia, laos, vietnam, china, india, pakistan, afghanistan, kyrgyzstan, uzbekistan, kazakhstan, the utter-most reach if it flew for all seven and a half hours on that fuel. there are a lot of technical questions, ashleigh, in terms of whether or not in getting through that, could it get through all this air space, radar systems, is it at the same height the whole time. even if it's just up or down a little bit, does that carry it from the stratosphere into the troeps fear. and then the political questions of all these places and issues they may have faced and what
groups might for any reason want a plane like this in one of those areas. so ashley, as you point out, this is just the lay of the land. it's important to bear in mind that if it went on the northern route, this all comes into play. but we don't know that it did. and we don't know when and where or how it might have stopped along the way. so every new answer brings a whole new set of questions. >> and that checklist behind you, at least a few countries on there that perk up a lot of ears and certainly not in a good way. tom, as always, thank you for that. appreciate it. really makes it clear. except for that southern route. i'm sorry, i don't understand that southern route at all. because if they want to ditch a plane in the ocean, no need to go seven hours. just doesn't make any sense. this morning, by the way, we've got other news that had been breaking. the president. mr. obama announcing sanctions against 11 key people in russia, and the ukraine. this is all a day after crimea had that referendum vote. the referendum to leave ukraine and join russia. now, beautiful fireworks and all that. big celebration.
but despite that, the united states and the e.u. consider this whole referendum and its result illegal. the overwhelming 96.7 vote. yes, 96.7 vote in favor of joining russia clearly something president obama was not surprised about. >> i have signed a new executive order that expands the scope of our sanctions. as an initial step, i'm authorizing sanctions on russian officials, entities operating in the arms sector in russia, and individuals who provide material support to senior officials of the russian government. and if russia continues to interfere if ukraine, we stand ready to impose further sanctions. >> so that's the word from the president in the united states. but the european union had its own move, too. the e.u. decided to impose sanctions on 21 russians and ukrainans because of what went on this weekend. here's something we don't see
every day. a 4.4 magnitude earthquake shaking the los angeles area this morning and catching it on came camera by way of i studio at 6:25 a.m. when the morning show is on at our affiliate, ktla, right in the middle of their newscast. feast your eyes on this. >> coming up, more problems -- >> earthquake. we're having an earthquake. >> it doesn't get more illustrative than that. the stop, drop and roll routine, everybody in l.a. would know about that. get under your desk, seek cover and like the anchor lady said, let's get out of here. the jolt only lasted a couple seconds. wasn't strong enough to cause significant damage. except for those who were watching that show, pretty scared. no doubt. with the search for the missing airliner covering thousands and thousands of miles, what is it like for the people on the boats and airplanes actually involved in that search, wondering if they're going on a wild goose
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ten days in, and the search for flight 370 shows no signs of letting up. in fact, instead it keeps expanding. so where do you look when the search area covers such vast areas of land and sea. and, by the way, when governments keep changing their minds about where this plane could have eventually ended up. bit of a red herring day to day. all of this stretches from kazakhstan to the indian ocean. and cnn reports from the andaman sea where the search efforts are facing monstrous challenges. >> reporter: this vast expanse of the andaman sea, scrutinized
by every indian vessel that sails. the an maman administration has send a notice to all government civilian and cargo ships to be on the lookout for any signs of the missing malaysian aircraft. >> if we show signs of any debris, like life jackets, parts of aircraft, we should report it to the port control. >> reporter: the captain is a master of a passenger ship serving the remote and in this case owe bar islands. >> reporter: how difficult is it to find anything in this vast expanse of sea? >> very difficult, especially the small pieces. >> reporter: he is a former indian navy commander who served his country for two decades in this 572 islands. stretching nearly 800 kilometers or 500 miles in the indian
ocean. >> the really modern islands here right now from sumatra, 60, 70 miles. so you can control these islands. >> reporter: most famous for its untouched beaches, reserve forests and indigenous tribes who still hunt and gather. 94% of these islands are uninhabited or off limits to people. no one here believes the theory that the malaysian airplane was hijacked and deliberately headed towards the andamans. >> landing over here not possible. my frank opinion, i don't think it is here. >> reporter: for days, the indian navy and air force have been searching in areas spanning more than 250,000 square kilometers near the 100,000 square miles from the andaman
sea to the bay of bengal. >> reporter: this is where the indian operation was launched. over there you can see the coast guard vessels. these vessels have been combing the length of the andaman islands toward the malacca strait since thursday. after reporting no sightings, india's military search was temporarily suspended on sunday before passenger ships, the search request still stands. cnn, port blair, india. >> just seems odd, doesn't it, a ship just plowing through a massive ocean and looking. just imagine what this is like for the loved ones who are still waiting. all these changes and theories and yet these families just waiting for anything. anything. of what happened to these people on flight 370. and just ahead, you're going to hear from significant other phillip wood, an american on
board that plane. she's going to tell you what she thinks happened and how she is preparing for what might be next. >> i have an outfit for him in my backpack, because he wouldn't want to wear his dirty old stuff anymore, i'm sure. when does your work end? does it end after you've expanded your business? after your company's gone public? and the capital's been invested? or when your company's bought another? is it over after you've given back? you never stop achieving. that's why, at barclays, our ambition is to always realize yours. predibut, manufacturings a prettin the united states do. means advanced technology.
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this mystery has been for you to follow, as every changing and conflicting report comes out about what happened to this plane, just imagine what this has been like for the people whose loved ones were or still are on board. they get a different story every day. they don't know what to think anymore. and one american on board named phillip wood was just about to move from china to malaysia with his partner. she says that she believes he is still alive. she does admit, however, she could be in denial. listen to what she told cnn's david mckenzie. >> the entire u.s. population is reliving things like 9/11 and this experience, right? if an unthinkable thing can happen, even after we have taken all of these precautions, what could happen next? this is a planned activity. somebody wants to do something and make a message out of it. and it would serve them no good to be seen as callus and brutal and just start killing people unnecessarily, because then they
won't have as much bargaining power, i think. i think. i don't -- i can't imagine to put myself into the mind-set of somebody who would even possibly contemplate this. but i've got a belief that the hostages are valuable to them. and as the only adult american on the flight, phillip would be a valuable asset to them. and it happens to be that he's also very calm and very put together, and he would know to step back and, you know, not cause any conflict. so he wouldn't be somebody that they would want to get out of the way as a trouble-causer. if there is anybody who can survive a situation like that, it's him. he's very level-headed. and i think he is the kind of person who would help to calm a really chaotic situation. of course, i have to prepare for the worst. because no matter what, i still have to go forward. and no matter what, his family still has to go forward.
so we need to know where the fork in the road is going to go. and we're not ready to take either branch, but we have to know what's coming. because otherwise when it comes, you won't be prepared, and that's when you get into trouble. i think. >> you need to be prepared for whatever the news is. >> uh-huh. my bag is packed and ready to go. it has been since saturday morning. >> ready to go where? >> wherever he is. my son even helped me pick out which clothes to bring for him, so i have an outfit for him in my backpack. because he wouldn't want to wear his dirty old stuff anymore, i'm sure. and he probably wouldn't want to wear a hospital gown, if that's the case. so yep, it's all ready. >> that is just absolutely heartbreaking to hear that. and i'm joined by someone who has been directly impacted by
this same kind of thing, an airline disaster, all be it with an answer far sooner. heidi snow lost her fiance in the twa flight 800 crash and since then, heidi has parted a support group for plane crash victims called a.c.c.e.s.s. i saw an interview with you last week in which you spoke of the uniqueness of what air crash victims go through, meaning they have so long to wait for answers so often. but then this story has become even more bizarre. and i wanted to check back in with you, because sarah, talking the way she did, not knowing from one day to the next whether these conflicting stories mean her loved one is a hostage or her loved one is dead, i can't imagine how you would answer her questions. >> right. so a lot of what she said definitely resonates with me and so many people who have called us for help after this incident, who have lost people in past stasters who are really living
it and remember this waiting time with all these incidents. that's what distinguishes air disasters from other types of sudden loss, is we really don't have information and it usually takes a really long time before we actually can confirm there were, in fact, aboard the plane, before the remains are actually found. and in this case, there's definitely hope there might be an alternative. and it is just so difficult. i remember i held on to hope for five weeks waiting for some kind of confirmation that he was actually on the plane. and i can tell you, i thought so many times, maybe he didn't actually get on that plane. and i tried to keep everything the same way it was, because i thought for sure he could come back and things were going to be the way they used to be. and that was definitely something that i held on to, to get through those weeks. it was so critical to have that hope and anyone who would listen and allow me to keep him alive and talk about him was what i needed that time.
and we really found that with a.c.c.e.s.s., the same thing, people calling and reliving it and wanting to talk about their loved ones again. and to are me, i was lucky. a woman lost her fiance on pan am flight 103. she allowed me to talk about him and hold out that hope. because that's what i needed to get through, was to hold on to that. and keep him alive. >> i saw you in an interview saying, and it just made so much sense, your organization actually sets up like-minded people, meaning a spouse with a spouse, a brother with a brother. so that they have that, you know, that intimate connection about what it's like to have gone through this. they both -- both of these people suffering through the same sort of thing. and i can only think that you're exactly like sarah. you lost your fiance. she lost her life partner. what would you say to her specifically? >> it is just so difficult. and the hardest thing, it's like
your future is planned and suddenly you have to rethink that. and move forward. and when people would say that to me, i couldn't even imagine what that meant. and it wasn't important at that time. at this point in time, i really just needed to keep talking about him and holding out hope. and that is how i got through every hour. >> how long do you do that though, heidi? i always wonder about hope is important, i get that right now. but at some point, do you have to turn the corner and say, need to move on. and the hope needs to be replaced by perhaps a very sad reality. >> right. and that's inevitable. that will happen down the road, depending on what the outcome is. but during this time, this early on, i have to say that this is a form of survival. is to be able to hold on to that hope. and it's critical. >> have you had any -- >> i remember so well -- >> sorry. we have that very awkward delay.
have you had any reach out to you? i know there were only two americans on board on this particular incident. but has a.c.c.e.s.s. been -- had an overture already about this -- about this incident? >> usually after incidents like this, when the details start coming in, is when people call us for help. and right now i think it's about that time where we usually begin receiving calls. but since this incident occurred, we -- we've got a surge of calls from people from past incidents just wanting to talk about their loved ones and all reliving this moment. it's been extremely difficult for those who have been through a similar situation in the past. and they have reached out to talk to grief mentors, as well. and certainly we are here for all the people from this crash. we match people according to the relationship of their loss. we match mothers to mothers, siblings to siblings, spouses to spouses so there is a similarity in what they're going through. >> heidi, can you -- i i was just going to ask if you could stay after the break. i have a question if you could
answer, i hadn't thought of it until this moment when you were speaking. and after the break, if you could let me know when something like this happens, do you people who have suffered through this before, people like you, family members of lockerbie, of 800, swiss air 111. are they having to relive -- i'm going to ask you now. i'm not going to break. do you get calls from people suffering all over again, even though they didn't know one person on this plane? >> absolutely. that's what our influx of calls have been. >> how do you counsel them? what do you say? >> we're finding most really want to tell their story again. and they're reliving it, and they are just so concerned and empathetic to all the people aboard this plane. and they feel for them. we all do. we remember what that was like, and it's really difficult. and it's really painful. and it's a very long process. and we said goodbye and we never thought that would be our final goodbye. that seemed impossible.
and there are so many unspoken things we had that we never got to say. and i just remember, it just -- it was not real. >> despite the fact that you are the person who is giving out the help, i don't know if anybody has said to you that they are thinking of you at this time, because you are as well a victim of a disaster like this. thank you for the work you do. i think it's really valuable. and thank you for being with us today. i really appreciate it. thank you very much. heidi is access help.org. i'm out of time. thanks for watching. wolf starts after this break. i'm beth... and i'm michelle. and we own the paper cottage. it's a stationery and gifts store. anything we purchase for the paper cottage goes on our ink card. so you can manage your business expenses and access them online instantly with the game changing app from ink. we didn't get into business to spend time managing receipts, that's why we have ink. we like being in business because we like being creative, we like interacting with people.