tv CNN Tonight CNN May 12, 2014 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
on having not only looked at the docs but adam silver in the eye and seeing the determination. >> we shall see. donald sterling certainly has a lot more to say about that topic, about his future role with team and his wife's possible future role. we got word magic johnson has agreed to speak with us tomorrow on this program. i'll ask him what he thinks donald sterling is saying. tune in for all of that. we'll see you again at 11:00 p.m. eastern for another edition of 360. tune in again tomorrow and set your dvr so you can watch 360 any time. thank you, anderson. i'm bill weir. our lead story is anderson cooper and this stunning interview with donald sterling. i was watching people pick their jaws up off the microphone floor moments ago. anderson, it's incredible. i imagine there's greatest hits here. i have to ask you about this
magic johnson exchange. why did he decide to attack one of the most beloved names in the game. >> what he says in the interview he claims magic johnson called him after this tape broke and suggested that he would somehow help him, he shouldn't say anything publicly. whether that's true or not i have no idea. i'll certainly ask magic johnson that tomorrow. mr. sterling seems to claim that this was part of an effort to somehow get the team away from him. whether that's the source of animosity or something else, he told stiff he didn't want her putting photographs of her with magic johnson on. >>gram or bringing him to any games. i was stunned at what he said during the interview, you know, not only about magic johnson just personally but what he's done for urban communities as really anybody knows if you look at magic johnson's record, the
magic johnson foundation for 20 years has given huge amounts of known underserved communities. >> for anybody who missed the top of your show here's a sample of the clippers owner and his thoughts on that community. >> i think wanted me to just do nothing so he could buy the team. he thought maybe the whole thing would be resolved in two weeks. what has he done? can you tell me? big magic johnson. what has he done? >> well, he's a business person. >> he's got aids. did he do any business -- did he help anybody in south l.a.? >> he has hiv doesn't have full blown aids. >> what kind of a guy goes over tory city has sex with every girl and then catches hiv. is that someone we want to respect and tell our kids about? i think he should be ashamed of himself. i think he should go into the background. but what does he do for the black people?
doesn't do anything. >> incredible stuff. now his wife talked to barbara wall terrifies today and floated the idea that donald may be suffering from dementia. did you see any signs of that other than what he was saying? >> you know, look, i don't know him well enough to be able to identify, you know, early on set dementia. you have to know a person what they were like ten years ago to know what they are like now. i only met him a week and a half ago for this interview. i will say he certainly was aware of where he was. he was well aware of what he was saying. he was well aware of, you know, why he wanted to do the interview, what he wanted to get out of it. interview went for more than an hour which is why we have more of it tomorrow night. i wanted to give him every opportunity to say what was on his mind and to tell his side, his side of the story. i didn't in any way get a sense while talking to him that he was not fully present, that he was in any way infirmed and by that
i mean he was not fully conscious of what he was saying. in fact there were times during the interview where i might ask him one question and than few minutes later or very quickly ask another question in a different direction and he would return to the original question because he didn't complete his thoughts. i would be very careful about airing or talking to anybody who has any kind of dementia. i'm not a doctor but i had no indication to be concerned about his abilities to hold this interview. >> what is he hoping to achieve here? is this a pr move? is he making a case to the other owners. >> part of his message is to the other owners. he knows that is the next shoe to drop. they will decide whether or not he did himself any favors. knees he's in a situation of his making by and large. he's in a situation that he's never been in before even though he's been in some hot water before. i think he clearly believes the
game is not over. he clearly believes there can be a role for him moving forward as own of this team. >> well, what this was the pr, the hindenburg was to blimps. we'll dissect it for the next hour. much more on donald sterling next. erence between hearing about my daughter's gym meet, and being there. yeah! nailed it! unlike the bargain brand, depend gives you new fit-flex®, our best protection. it's a smooth and comfortable fit with more lycra strands. hi sweetie! get your free sample at depend.com. (music) defiance is in our bones. defiance never grows old. citracal maximum. calcium citrate plus d. highly soluble, easily absorbed.
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. that's one problem i have, jews when they get successful they will help their people. and some of the african-americans, maybe i'll get in trouble again, they don't want to help anybody. what has magic johnson really done for children's hospital which kids are lying in the hallways. they are sick. they need a bed. >> that is more from anderson coop ear us jaw dropping interview with donald sterling. they say a good defense is best offense. taking shots at magic johnson not the best rehabilitation strategy for sterling. on the home front his wife mrs. sterling talking divorce. is this it? is this the final shot for the least liked owner in the nba. joining me now divorce attorney, famed divorce attorney, also
sports agent lee steinberg author of "the agent." good to see you again. lee, let me get your reaction to this interview. did you watch the whole thing on anderson? what do you make of this guy? >> this was sort of a death rattle and i don't know who is doing public relations advice for him, but this anecdotal meandering is not how i would do an interview. some of the sbersing things that has happened to him, he's taking advantage of them and message them to put themselves in his shoes because there's all sorts of public opinion forming, not with standing the racism that to expose a tape this way, to deprive someone of something because they expressed private thoughts, maybe isn't right. but that was a message to me to
other owners to think carefully before you proceed because you better not have dirty linen in your own closet. >> is this vote that the nba owners will have, i don't know when, in the soon future, is it snub will we be able to know which teams voted yea or nay on donald sterling? >> that's a critical point because you wouldn't think that any owner would want to go back to the fans of his city with this third rail of racism exposed and explain why they voted to keep donald sterling in the league. i haven't seen anything like this, bill, maybe in a sports genre maybe michael vick before him o.j.. this has transfixed people at every level. and anyone who would have any pr sense and identify been in these damage control situations before
would stick to a very tight narrative and rehearsed qs and as well before going on air. he would know how he would respond to every one of anderson's questions. he was just telling stories. i think there's a method to his madness. he's not senile. i've been around him and that's how he talks. >> we were thinking last week with these leaked phone calls this is a shrewd strategy if i said these things and they got leaked gave him too much credit. donald wasn't the only sterling talking this weekend. his wife shelly sat down with barbara walters. let's listen to what the better half had to say. >> i don't love him. i pity him and i feel sorry for him. >> what is your relationship with him today, with your husband? >> we're estranged. we've been estranged for about a year. >> why not divorce your husband? >> i've been thinking about it.
i filed these divorce papers. i signed them. i was all ready to file. my attorney and my financial adviser said now is not the time. >> why not? >> well, i think her attorneys are financial adviser, should have told her to hold off. on one hand you have his interview. and you got this lady's interview is pretty bad. but, i learned something all the years i've been doing this. don't listen too much to what people say. it's less important than what people do. that goes for the president of the united states beginning with roosevelt through nixon and on up. in the last analysis, people buy tickets, it's the players. i think the players have worked their hearts out for him. i continue to follow basketball but they certainly look like
they don't have an ounce of energy left at the end of the day. he has given them hundreds of millions of dollars. it's all out there. the one thing we know, if you're on television long enough it doesn't lie. and you saw mr. sterling on television there and take it or leave it. >> now her argument that she owns half of that team, she's not a racist, she doesn't deserve to have the owners take that away, her cut of that, what do you make of that? >> bill, i don't think they will have an easy job getting the team away from him unless he actually he made a deal with the league. you can't take people's property away because of something stupid they said. you know, if we had a quarter together between every rich old married man that talked trash to a young girlfriend he's trying to get theory bed we could own this building at this point. >> but there's something different about that nba
charter. the constitution says we can take it away. >> let's be very clear here. this is not a corner drugstore. this is not a traditional business that one invests in where you have a whole series of rights. when he bought the team, it stated clearly in the constitution there would be a whole series of restrictions, and they were granting him the charter and they could take it right back and it's really clear that if you do something to damage the best interests of basketball and the nba, that you could have your charter revoked, and once it's revoked he signed a piece of paper that said that the decision would be binding and final and he goes on in, i think it's 24 j to say and i promise in essence that i won't sue or go into court. matter of fact, there's an arbitration procedure. so if they even decided to hear an appeal it would go to
arbitration, not to court. he's already waived that right. lawyers can make any argument that they choose to make. but this is the, a desperate attempt to hold on to a team. can you imagine in southern california taking on magic johnson, who not only was an iconic player, but owns a good chunk of the inner-city, and is considered to be an exemplar. he's gone right back to the black card, you know, black promiscuous men, hiv, all the rest of it, those are code words. >> when we come back we'll meet and actually hear a point of view from somebody who filed a lawsuit against donald sterling for something much more than offensive comments. gloria allred is representing the daughter of a woman who tried to get justice against this guy.
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to prepare our kids to compete main today's economy?way woman: a well-rounded education that focuses on science, math, and career training for students who don't choose college. man: and that's exactly what superintendent of public education tom torlakson has been working on. woman: because every student needs the real world skills for the jobs of tomorrow. man: torlakson's career readiness initiative is helping schools expand job and technical training across the state because it makes a difference. woman: so tell tom torlakson to keep fighting for the career and technical training our students need.
they are clippers, they are mine and i'm theirs. that's how i feel. i would do anything for them. i made a mistake. i hope it's in their heart to forgive me for that mistake. i don't know why the girl had me say those things >> you're saying you were set up? >> yes, i was baited. it's not the way i talk. >> donald sterling talking to anderson cooper not perhaps doing the most convincing job of proving he's not a racist. in fact sterling is being sudden for housing discrimination or was by the daughter of an
african-american woman who was legally blind, partially paralyzed. her attorney gloria allred joins me now. so you had this event today. i'm sorry if i don't have my facts right. are you bringing this lawsuit again or just representing the woman whose mother did try to sue sterling? >> bill no, i do just represent the daughter of the 66-year-old african-american woman candice jones who was one of 19 plaintiffs and she helped to organize those plaintiffs to sue donald sterling because of the conditions at the ardmore building apartments which he owned. and the allegations are horrendous. the allegations in that lawsuit that her sink was not repaired. that her toilet was not repaired. that she had no working stove. that there was flooding in the apartment. that eboni jones, her daughter so courageous to continue the
lawsuit after her poor mother passed away, may she rest in peace, they had to remove feces by hand from the toilet. the conditions were deplorable. this lawsuit had been brought on behalf of african-american and latino residents of the building. it was resolved. >> in other words, he paid a settlement, right? is that how it ended? >> it was settled, but ebony jones wanted everybody to know when sterling said look, i made one mistake which i think is what he said in the interview with anderson cooper. it wasn't one mistake. this is not an isolated incident. mr. sterling needs to be judged by the nba owners by his entire history. and that includes what he did at the ardmore apartments and the deplorable treatment of candice jones, this poor woman who had
such courage to fight despite her disability she just wanted to be in her little apartment which she considered to be her home. i mean the flooding and fungus and conditions. she died before this lawsuit was over. but her memory lives on and the nba needs to take note of it. >> you want the owners to take all of it into account. not just this interview. let's switch to v. stiviano. now it seems there was some indication she gave that maybe sterling knew that he was being recorded before. now he denies that. so that brings up questions about whether she broke the law in recording this. here's anderson and sterling talking about v. >> did she ask you for money? do you believe she was trying to extort money from you in any way? >> you know, forgive me for saying this, but she is a good
person. she is a beautiful person. there's 15 of her, 15 children, 15 hispanic kids, sisters and brothers, and she supports them all. perhaps she's made some mistakes. i thought she cared for me. i was stupid. how could a girl care for a man 51 years older. she didn't, or she wouldn't have released those tapes. but she's not a bad person, you know. she has to survive. she's a street person. but inside she's a good person. >> do you have the sense that she was wanting money from you, more money than you've already given her? >> i used to think i understood women. i don't think i do any more. i don't know. i don't know why she released it. she never said what you just
said. >> she never directly asked for money? >> pardon me? >> she never directly asked for money or extorted money. >> so, who would you rather represent in this case? v. stiviano or shelly sterling? >> that's a hard choice. i don't know. frankly i wouldn't want to represent either one of them. but, you know, your sports agent made it seem like they would get rid of this guy. what does happen is smart lawyers bring it to federal court because there's a question of fact. he has obviously a contract, i learned from watching this, that he can't bring the league or the team in disrepute. like most television people have a contract. but you're entitled to a hearing on that. he may have signed away that right to arbitration. you have a right to an arbitration and then take it
into the federal courts or state courts. i don't think you've heard the end of this thing except mr. sterling seemed to want to wash his hands and make a clean slate of things. he may have gotten a lot of sympathy, you know. i don't think so. but in a certain substrata of the population, but it's 80 and over, he would garner some sympathy, i would think. >> gloria, let me ask you, did v. stiviano break the law when she recorded him making those initial comments. >> the reports are there's a criminal investigation so law enforcement will make that decision. but, you know, i'm a little disappointed you would put v. stiviano and shelly sterling in the same category. you know, i think that the nba should not be -- should not be blaming shelly sterling for the racist statements that her
husband clearly made. and i don't think that wives should be blamed for their husbands conduct or statements, unless they have their own conduct or statements, let them be judged on that. you know, we don't even have a woman owner of an nba team, it's long overdue for that and she needs to be judged by herself and i don't like putting her in the same category as v. stiviano. >> well we heard v. stiviano has 15 siblings and all kinds of good things. by the way, my understanding is it is against california law. california law you need consent of both parties. new york no, other states no. so there could be a potential criminal case. >> leigh, you explained this earlier this idea that he's preaching to some members out there, other fellow owners to say he who is without sin cast the first stone, be careful. could that work? could ultimately that work and
prolong this? >> i will tell you this, i feel sympathy for gloria's client, but if you start to open the cupboards of every nba owner and how they made the money to put these teams together you've got a whole slew of bad business practices, you don't want to go down that road. i think what we're seeing -- it reminds me when a wild animal is caught in a trap, and desperate. so they squirm around and do the rest, maybe even bite the end of their own appendage off but they won't ultimately escape. this involves billions of dollars. the whole image of the league. their ability to project their brand worldwide. their ability to have sponsors, a television contract, all the rest of it. think of the league more as a collective that operates collectively and then you have
individual franchises. but the linkage between -- >> leigh, if i may say, i think this goes well beyond bad business practices. if, in fact, nba finds that there was a history of racial discrimination in the business practices then it is absolutely relevant to their decision and i don't think we can just slough it off and say oh, well a lot of people have bad business practices. if a person is, in fact, a slum lord. if a person is, in fact, tr discriminating against minorities that matters. i think everybody needs accountable for that including donald sterling. >> gloria, no one is arguing with that, okay. everyone understands the interjection of race or racially
biassed practices is anathema to society. the point is they already have enough evidence and already have a determination. you have the players over here saying we won't play for him as an owner. you have the league over here saying we want him out. you have a community of interest and this ultimately will result in sterling losing the franchise and they will find a great new group of owners that will revitalize the franchise and they will be very careful -- >> why should shelly sterling be penalized. >> she doesn't own the team. she was never approved. she was never approved. >> here's what could happen. >> you have one owner. >> okay. here's what can happen. donald sterling, if he would exercise some wisdom, he could in a negotiated settlement sell
or give his share and each owns 50% of the clippers to his estranged wife shelly sterling and then she could then apply for approval as an owner. >> she will never get it. >> why should she be denied the approval. >> the players won't play for her. >> it was characterized as being desperate. i don't think that came across. it's sort paf anesthetic. >> it is pathetic. >> this is not a desperate man. i would really be interested to know what he did on the discrimination case. you asked the right question. did he pay up? >> he paid a big fine. anyway, thank you all so much. when we come back, sealed with a kiss. that moment that has sports fans choosing sides, some shocked, some saying hey what's the big deal? ood gummies.
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michael sam, defensive end. every kid who puts pads on thinks about a moment like that and it happened finally for 24-year-old michael sam on saturday. heard his name, 249th pick by the rams. for some what happened next cast a shadow over what should have bean day of pure celebration. michael sam and his partner celebrated with a kiss. and for some like former giants running back der rick ward it was too much. i'm sorry that michael sam is no braino for doing that on national tv he tweeted. i'm fine with it being a new day and age but for him doing that on national tv is disgusting gay or not. he wrote. second year miami dolphins player tweeted omg, horrible expressions that got him fined and suspended by his dolphins team. joining me now to talk about that reaction, ken blackwell at the family research council and dale hansen the dean of texas
sport casters who went viral with a little bit of, well an op-ed you might call it about sam going into the draft and how it might be -- how some nfl players thought it would be uncomfortable. >> it would be uncomfortable because that's a man's world. you beat a woman and drag her down a flight of stairs pulling her hair out by the roots you're the fourth guy taken in the nfl draft. you kill people while driving drunk, that guy is welcomed. players caught in hotel rooms with illegal drugs and prostitutes, we know they are welcomed. players accused of rape and pay the woman go away, you lie to police trying to cover up a murder we're comfortable with that. you love another man, well now you've gone too far. >> dale it's great to have you on. i'm interested in your reaction to the events over the weekend of him falling so far, even further than even you hinted in that and then the kiss. >> well, i am a little bit
surprised he fell that far but i think it is because he came out as being an openly gay man now. i find it almost impossible to believe that there are 248 better nfl prospects coming out of college than michael sam, but i also accept the nfl's argument he might be what they call to be a tweenor. he may be a little too slow and slow. that's possible. when the announcement came down i think it's ridiculous the negative reaction to it. i even heard a radio guy in dallas today saying that he would have been equally upset if a star quarterback had kissed his beautiful girlfriend on national tv and i think that's absolutely ridiculous just as ridiculous as the negative reaction to michael sam kissing his boyfriend at least to me. >> ken, i think you might disagree with this. what was your reaction? >> i thought the kiss was inappropriate and over the top, but i am just surprised with the
duplicity among owners and leadership of nfl. it was just a few years ago when there were players who criticized tim tebow for wearing his faith on his sleeve. there were folks who basically said he was not a good football player, that's why they were critical of him, not because he was a professed christian who practiced his faith in all aspects of his life. i really do question the network's judgment, editorial judgment in putting the kiss on tv. look, this is a very clear opportunity for mr. sam and others to co-op a professional sports, in this case the nfl as a platform and as a force multiplier forced advancing his
agenda. he should make the team or not make the team and during the combine i don't think he was more than an average football player. his time in the 40 wasn't that astonishing and that competitive. his lateral movement and a whole host of other things, his start off with the ball. there were serious questions, serious football minds had about his talents. hold it. i hope he hasn't created a political prophylactic that will shield his inability to make the team as a football player -- as a football player because he's an advocate for a lifestyle. >> dale it sounds like ken michael sam wants to make himself cut proof just by coming out as gay.
>> yeah. i don't think i've ever heard michael sam say that. all i heard him say he wants to be judged as a football player. the gentleman is right. there are some serious questions about his ability to transfer from college to the nfl and i think that's one of the reasons why he was a seventh round pick. now i hope he can be judged on his merits. >> i do too. >> i hear this reference to tim tebow. has he forgotten about tebowmania. tebowmania swept this country for a couple of years. the only reason he's not playing after being a first-round draft pick is because he's another one of those guys who couldn't make the move from college to the nfl and play quarterback at the level they required. michael sam as i said last night in a commentary might very well be the next college superstar that will suffer the same fate. all i want and all i think he wants is the opportunity and st. louis rams have given him that now. >> i would agree that if he, in
fact, has the opportunity to make it on his football skills that should be the determining -- that should be the determining factor and that's always been my view. i just was -- i was surprised and i wasn't born yesterday, that was well orchestrated yesterday. that wasn't just spontaneous expression of joy. >> let me ask you this -- >> everybody does that. everybody does that. there are so -- you think when johnny manziel walked on stage and started snapping his fingers giving the money sign he didn't think about that? players at almost every draft have orchestrated some aspect of the celebration. this happened to be michael sam's way of celebrating something that -- an openly gay man never had an opportunity to do before. >> dale, let me ask you -- >> you and i agree on something. there's a whole lot of behaviors that are accepted and covered up
in the nfl that should have the full light of day shined on them and terminated right away. >> i'll ask you ken, real quick. you believe homosexuality is a sin. >> what i believe is that the bible basically says -- >> do you believe they choose to be gay? >> i think that it's a bit of both. >> a bit of both. >> yeah. let me speak very clear since you asked the question. i believe that natural and traditional marriage should be between a man and a woman. not two men or two women and i think if we go down this slippery slope where love is the basis upon which we express the state's interest in marriage, then we better be ready for two men and one woman or two women and one man because there, in fact, be a point of
discrimination. >> that's going to make things really confusing on "draft day". it really will be. >> ken, there used to be a day that the state decided black men couldn't marry white women. >> that was because of race. let's be clear. look, see my family has dealt with racial discrimination. like i said, two men -- a man and a woman that was the definition of marriage. the differentiator on the state tease role traefs. that was inappropriate. now nobody has a right, i want you guys to understand this. nobody has a right to redefine marriage. nobody. >> i appreciate you guys coming on. >> good to be with you. >> bill, my pleasure. >> when we come back, what would be a life and death decision to actually engage with a terrorist who took those school girls? they say they want to negotiate
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bring back our girls. it is the world-wide outcry since nearly 300 schoolgirls were taken from their beds in the middle of the night on april 14th. while we have heard threats from the terrorists we have not seen proof of life until now. about 100 shown in this video released by a senior administration official tells cnn that u.s. officials have no reason to question the authenticity. at least one nigerian government official say that negotiations could be an option but should
they be? joining me, allen derswitz and jacob xan analyst. jacob is this the m.o. for this group, boko haram? >> boko haram has learned this tactic from other militants in this region. the first such kidnapping by cocoa haram was in february of 2013 when it took captive a french family and ransoming them for $3 million. later they started taking the family members of government officials and getting in the tens of thousands of dollars and the release of prisons in jails.
now it has escalated to much larger scale with this kidnapping of more than 200 girls where boko haram should expect large ransoms. >> it's perverse that the world-wide attention. the u.s. policy, never -- we don't know of behind the scenes deals going but should we all chip in and buy the girls back? >> every democratic policy says the policy is never to negotiate with terrorists but they do. this would be a bad deal to negotiate and make a deal with them. because they are talking about soft targets. they will kidnap 300 more people. they will go to hospitals and kindergartens. the stakes will go up. they will become more and more prominent. i think you can't negotiate the
release of prisoners. we don't know which prisoners they want to have released. are they ones that would attack americans? prisoners from many, many other countries. if you can negotiate release the girls and attack the terrorists and prevent them from doing it zben, that's a win-win. but if you give them what they want, they will do it again and again and it will be the beginning of a terrible cycle. >> that seems to back up what you said about this group. it emboldens them to keep going. >> the stakes have increased from kidnapping the daughters of government officials in the numbers of five or six. and now it's 250. if you try to make a deal for these girls it's not clear whether boko haram will return all 250 of them. they might return 180 but they have 70 girls as a bargaining chip moving forward and they can
carry out further attacks with the militants that will be released from prison. >> do you think the knee jeerian government will go for this? >> they said all options are on the table. the closer you to the victims the more pressure you get from families. the pressures are enormous. we want to see the girls returned safely but it's there is no guarantee they will be returned safely. it has been said they have been converted to islam. and it is a capital offense to reconvert to christianity. and they may have married some of these girls off. this is a complicated interaction because of the religious nature of it and the terrorist nature of it. the united states have given the other countries wiggle room and said we don't negotiate with terrorists but you do what you must.
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1968, racism had people bleeding in the streets. you had to give it to them for being brave and had to be creative. writing the romance into the show could have got people hurt. the way the scene plays is they are being forced to kiss. staff members recalled nasty letters after that aired. it was a couple years later when another taboo was broken, and "all in the family" wrote the first gay character into a television script. he was a former linebacker. it was a great set up for the reveal. how are you going to get archie hoe told hands with a gay guy. >> for one thing he thinks that friend of his roger is straight. and steve you are going to bust
them wide open. he thinks that you're -- i can't even say it, steve. >> he's right, arch. >> huh? >> once again give it up to the show creator. the word "gay" never appeared in that show. but it was a watershed moment. and as time passed, the need for bravery faded. the biggest threat was predictability and boredom. which is why michael sam's moment with his boyfriend is the first unscripted gay kiss not from a so-called reality show but on a network devoted to the human drama of force. it was not forced by tv executives. it was an explosion of emotion any fan could understand. he spend three days twisting in
the draft winds, three days wondering whether the sport he loves would reject him for being true to himself. when his name is called it's relief and pure joy. it hyou have to wonder whether michael sam's reaction will change anyone's mind. what is next? beerpded cross dresser winning global talent contests? well, yes. behold, conchita wurst. his real name is tom neuwirth but his stage name means "sausage" and "it's all the same" in german.
it's all the same. how you look and where you come from, the only thing that really counts is the person you are. a big week for divas in beards and defensive ends with boyfriends and love and acceptance. i'm bill weir, cnn special report starts right now. >> we have a great show for you >> we have a great show for you tonight. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com your result is pouring in. what does donald sterling have against magic johnson in sterling thinks he is beloved by the team and the controversy is the media's fault. >> elgin baylor has nothing to do with the things i said 20 years later. what did it have to do? >> elgin baylor claimed you had a plantation mentality. and you say you feed these guys -- >> i